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U.S Production of Model Trains

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wfa
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Posted by wfa on Tuesday, March 29, 2011 2:05 PM

Right youare Phillyreading

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Posted by phillyreading on Tuesday, March 29, 2011 1:25 PM

wfa

When the toy train manufactures left the USA " to save money" I did not see any cost savings for anything I bought so whaere was the savings. Move over seas cheaper labor I would thing less expensive ptoduct. Not so though, If these companies move back I don't think there should be an increase in price since the shipping should certianly be a large saving in itself. With all the usa workers looking for work the job market would be rip for the picking. My concern is do these american companies really care about the US worker?

I would like to see the savings as well!!SoapBox

When the large compnies talk about saavings it sure isn't for the buyer of produced goods like model trains. They mean it saves them money!! In otherwords they save the GREEN GOD(money)!! See the movie "Trading Places" with Eddie Murphy to understand the term Green GOD, if you don't already know what I mean.

Lee F.

Interested in southest Pennsylvania railroads; Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading.
wfa
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Posted by wfa on Tuesday, March 29, 2011 1:11 PM

When the toy train manufactures left the USA " to save money" I did not see any cost savings for anything I bought so whaere was the savings. Move over seas cheaper labor I would thing less expensive ptoduct. Not so though, If these companies move back I don't think there should be an increase in price since the shipping should certianly be a large saving in itself. With all the usa workers looking for work the job market would be rip for the picking. My concern is do these american companies really care about the US worker?

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Posted by fifedog on Tuesday, March 29, 2011 7:15 AM

11th Street - Well stated.

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Posted by phillyreading on Monday, March 28, 2011 11:41 AM

Interesting that Lionel will be making part of a boxcar near Philadelphia PA, and other parts in other places around the USA.

On another note, I know that I would be discouraged from buying something from somebody like Lionel(a major outfit) who can't keep things in stock that advertise in a catalog, and then take almost three years to come through if they made it. My comments are that Lionel's catalogs were wish books, wish they made it!! That is why I buy only what I can see at a hobby store or train show.

Lee F.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, March 27, 2011 8:05 PM

Just out of curiosity, what's the name of the beautiful 3-master in the pic?

(And yes, I know it's Off Topic so don't SoapBox or Bang Head Laugh)

Becky

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Posted by wallyworld on Sunday, March 27, 2011 10:39 AM

My concern is with quality assurance as well as service, and then the ready availability of parts, etc that does not rely on the containerization of proverbially, these things having "to round the horn" as if we were in the 18th century and we still use clipper ships..( which would probably be faster, ironically enough) and so Lionel has begun to make some of their products here, as other manufacturers certainly do without a major reworking of tax codes. The politics of toy trains is well, asking for a divisive fulcrum and I won't go there, as I am simply stating , as a customer, a preference, not so much of an agenda.. I do understand your issue and agree, but since this is not a political forum, I decline to go that route. Ah, wind power second only to steam power, in my book. Hoist the jib, here comes a load of toys for good girls and boys." She's as pretty as a picture."

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Posted by 11th Street on Sunday, March 27, 2011 9:46 AM

The solution to the problem of country of manufacture origin of consumer products (and associated jobs) is the same for toy trains as it is for all other products sold in the US. When the corporate tax code is rewritten to make it more tax costly to manufacture and import products sold here than it is to make those same products here & sell  them here, then  little will change in this overall situation.

Who pays what & who financially benefits is an academic definition of politics.  Every thing else that goes on is nothing but noise, the purpose of which is to mask the financial issues in play.  Now lets see a raise of hands: who is willing to vote in and hold responsible  politicians that will make corporate US tax code changes  happen? Wink

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Posted by David Barker on Sunday, March 27, 2011 6:13 AM

Wally World said;

Remember ( for those of us old enough) when "made in japan " was equated to shoddy goods? They certainly turned that around but they were designed to be shoddy as in cheaply made whereas this stuff is not designed to have a short shelf life. This was one of many reasons I went to Marx ( not the only one) as this stuff is 50-60 years old designed to be cheap and runs after just some cleaning and lubrication.

As  a child I had what my parents bought (and one Uncle).  My uncle came back from Europe at the end of WWII and bought me a Marx set which I played with until my father decided on American Flyer several years later.  He sold AF sets at Christmas time at his Pure Oil Station.  Thus Flyer became my hobby choice.

Since my move in 1998, I went back to Marx for the exact reasons Wally stated.  "I went to Marx ( not the only one) as this stuff is 50-60 years old designed to be cheap and runs after just some cleaning and lubrication. "  On  my layout I have much selection and enjoyment. 

Since I wish to display in my two offices toy trains that operate.  Flyer is simply to expensive to take the risk of being damaged.  Marx got the nod.

Jim and Debbie Flynn started a new Marx Company but for reasons unknown to me, it did not do as well as many had hoped for,  I think part of the problem was the hobby shps being overly cautious as I could not find the products for sale.

Just  my 2c

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Posted by Seayakbill on Sunday, March 27, 2011 5:42 AM

List prices for scale rolling stock is hovering around $80 now for Chinese imports, so I doubt I would be interested in anything priced above that watermark. Traditional rolling stock listed at $40 to $50 for 6464 type boxcars, no thank-you.

Lionel has cracked the stratosphere for $800 diesels and $1700 steamers at list prices for their top catalog offerings, glad I accumulated my stuff before this wave of overpriced electric trains hit the shelves.

Bill T.

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Posted by Andrew Falconer on Sunday, March 27, 2011 12:52 AM

The prices of both U.S. Made Weaver Models and China made Lionel have both risen quite a bit since 1995. So we are already paying more than we would have 10 years ago.

What about models of Canadian specific Locomotives and Freight Cars being produced in Canada?

Andrew Falconer

Andrew

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, March 26, 2011 8:55 PM

The big improvement in my mind would be the kinds of in-house quality and quantity control U.S. production would offer.  I can't tell you how many times I've searched and searched before I found an item in-stock that I wanted to buy.  Most of the time I heard that there was a shipping delay or that a production run had been sent back because of quality control issues.  Only rarely have I ever heard that a shipment is on-time.  So having Lionel back to using the old model of being all under one roof would cut a lot of those problems down to size.  And while I'm no economist I'd imagine that customer satisfaction in this instant gratification world of the 21st century would outweigh any savings gained from overseas labor costs.

Becky

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Saturday, March 26, 2011 5:57 PM

phillyreading
...Lionel might be making some things here in the USA, but I can't say one way or the other, as I don't have any information...

Here you go - click HERE.

Rob

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Posted by Jark K. Remol on Saturday, March 26, 2011 3:50 PM

Seems to me everyone here is waiting for someone else to decided to make the products they want in the USA. Why not start a new company here? Why not be the next Maury Klein, Steven Ross or Mike Wolf?

Seems to me there are a lot of people in this hobby with some amazing engineering and design abilities. And I'm sure someone has some kind of business background. Seems to me there also are a lot of people in this hobby with sufficient funds to invest in such a company.

I'd be tempted to try this myself, but I lack sufficient capital, and to be perfectly honest, lack the business acumen to do this.

Where the pistons keep on charmin' and the wheels go round' and round' And the steel rails are cold and hard for the miles that they go down.
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Posted by phillyreading on Saturday, March 26, 2011 2:15 PM

I would love to see model trains made in the USA. Currently, I think that Weaver is the only one made in the USA. Lionel might be making some things here in the USA, but I can't say one way or the other, as I don't have any information.

About two years ago this was true; most of the other companies; Lionel, K-Line, MTH, Bachmann/Williams, have gone to China, and buy from holding companies like Sanda Kan or Kader. MTH at one time had a deal with a south Korean company.

With the way the unemployment situation is in this country, people should be willing to work for closer to minimum wage and that will help to keep costs down. Shipping from China has to cost a bundle as well.

Lee F.

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Posted by wallyworld on Saturday, March 26, 2011 11:48 AM

Aside from the quality issues in model trains, shortly after asking  this question in a public forum, I went over to the RYPN (Railway preservation News )website only to find a thread concerning quality issues with 1:1 prototype parts and mechanical attachments used in steam locomotive restorations, etc that came from China. Substandard materials. Not only in trains.

http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31105

One of the more nonsensical engineering issues that David Wardale found ( In the Red Devil book) when he went there to design a contemporary locomotive was that they had condensation piped right to the rail head from the boiler. Another thread  ( at OGR) was discussing quality issues that have bled over to fit and finish on standard gauge cars, chipped paint, etc...I think this is an issue of subcontracting and no on site quality rep. It seems they come over in containers..flawed and get shipped as they are so to speak.  The only way perhaps this will change if they get enough returns...or complaints..one fellow had a long list of defects and simply fixed them himself. I wonder how many others have done this?

Remember ( for those of us old enough) when "made in japan " was equated to shoddy goods? They certainly turned that around but they were designed to be shoddy as in cheaply made whereas this stuff is not designed to have a short shelf life. This was one of many reasons I went to Marx ( not the only one) as this stuff is 50-60 years old designed to be cheap and runs after just some cleaning and lubrication. When I had a MTH GG1 and a GP7 fry due to bad boards..that was the turning point.....I think Lionel bringing some production back here is terrific.

Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has.

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Posted by fifedog on Saturday, March 26, 2011 9:40 AM

It would appear that we are paying significantly more for items made overseas today, when the manufacturers reasoned that their moves were cost cutting measures...

Part of the original problems LIONEL had to deal with were union salaries and legacy fees.  Not going down that slippery slope further here...

I believe that competitive labor can be had right here in the U.S. (not including North America...again 'nuther slippery slope).  Will the manufacturers be willing to lower their higher-ups bottom lines...?


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Posted by David Barker on Saturday, March 26, 2011 6:33 AM

I would buy toy train products made in America, even at higher cost.  

Lionel is no longer the Lionel we knew from the 1940's to the day it was sold to the current owners.  The quality may be still good, but there is still a loss of pride in ownership of a piece 'Made in China" as far as I am concerned.

 

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Posted by rtraincollector on Friday, March 25, 2011 8:41 PM

11th Street

Are we talking about plastic products & trucks (ie boxcars) that are really made over there and simply assembled, packaged & wholesale distributed from here? And what of the QA problems plaguing the hobby? Are we talking about a lifetime, return to USA factory warranty like Bachmann/Williams already offers on their operating products? And where/who will be making the electronic circuit boards and how long will replacement parts be stocked?

I might be willing to pay closer to list if  those type of questions become answered to the benefit of  end consumer/users. Not!  if the move becomes merely a marketing ploy and otherwise toy train business as usual . Hmm

he didn't say by which manufacture and for some of your questions you don't get it now so I don't see it happening in the future.

Marketing the electronic circuit boards I'm sure could be done here too. But again the cost but to me I guess I'm dumb but I can't believe the cost to pack , ship, pay import tariff's actually can make the products that more cheaper then made here. they claimed to make the product more cost effective they were moving well to me it didn't do anything for the consumers here as the prices have steadily gone up so how much would it have gone up if it didn't go over there and how much is there present profit margin and a Item do they really need that much to keep things going or is it just greediness by all of them as it seems they each see who can do a higher price item than the other.

To me this is something Weaver, Lionel, And MTH need to look hard at and decide. I leave Bachmann out as they are and always have been to my knowledge been an out of company producer.

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Posted by 11th Street on Friday, March 25, 2011 8:10 PM

Are we talking about plastic products & trucks (ie boxcars) that are really made over there and simply assembled, packaged & wholesale distributed from here? And what of the QA problems plaguing the hobby? Are we talking about a lifetime, return to USA factory warranty like Bachmann/Williams already offers on their operating products? And where/who will be making the electronic circuit boards and how long will replacement parts be stocked?

I might be willing to pay closer to list if  those type of questions become answered to the benefit of  end consumer/users. Not!  if the move becomes merely a marketing ploy and otherwise toy train business as usual . Hmm

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Posted by rtraincollector on Friday, March 25, 2011 6:46 PM

Well for a complete answer you have to remember Some of weaver still are and some (very few acually basicly some boxcars) of Lionel are again being made here in the U.S. basicly for the same price of the ones from china, so it tells me it probably can be done for about the same money. Now engines maybe theres the difference but I think I would be also willing to Pay  a little more if these compaines would bring back there production to the U.S.

Yes

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U.S Production of Model Trains
Posted by wallyworld on Friday, March 25, 2011 5:43 PM

Would you be willing to pay more for model railroad equipment if it were made in the U.S versus China? I am not referring to Korea where a great deal were formerly made. . I keep hearing quality problems coming from China and I think of all the unemployed folks here, that I am sure would do a first rate job. This question coincides with some recent reading I was doing about the history of  production of trains in the U.S.. The question is: Would you be willing to pay a somewhat higher cost that I presume would result from this? I don't want the question interpreted to be a political post, just a simple question..My own answer is yes.

Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has.

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