wiz1500Just like the manufactures recommended Oil
Wrong. Lionel oil & lubricant is not synthetic(due to cost).
wiz1500That's not even worth a response.
Why not? Do you not believe this?
wiz1500Wasn't it you that said some where that you prefer 5w-20 over 5w-30
NO
and why are you not using a straight weight?
Simple... Mobil 1 does not come in straight weight.
wiz1500So what is the temprature of the brush contact point at the brush plate when your pullmore motor is running at 18 volts AC and drawing down 4 or 5 amps. You know the motor that you just put automotive lube on the armature shaft and it has now slung it all over the brushes and plate ??? I don't think your lubes flash point will allow it to hold together and neither will my oil. The difference is what your oil leaves behind...... sulfated ash,zinc then you start getting into the detergents and other polymers. Some people like replacing brushes and armatures. I don't..
So what is the temprature of the brush contact point at the brush plate when your pullmore motor is running at 18 volts AC and drawing down 4 or 5 amps. You know the motor that you just put automotive lube on the armature shaft and it has now slung it all over the brushes and plate ???
I don't think your lubes flash point will allow it to hold together and neither will my oil. The difference is what your oil leaves behind...... sulfated ash,zinc then you start getting into the detergents and other polymers.
Some people like replacing brushes and armatures. I don't..
Oil doesn't belong on brushes. The long term disadvantage outweighs the short term observed advantage.
wiz1500Here is the big question..................If using automotive oil is such a good idea why is it that the manufactures are not using it or recommending the use of it.
$$$ - cost. At the time of production, and when you buy hobby oil. They would rather sell you two 4 oz. bottles for the price of 32 oz. of Mobil 1.
Rob
I just posted this in another topic so I'll just past it here for you.
wiz1500Why are you guy's putting a multi viscosity automotive oil onto your prized trains?
It doesn't evaporate. It doesn't leave a gummy mess. It doesn't get hard. If you step up to Mobil 1 or Amsoil, it clings to metal surfaces & won't break down, it's super-slippery, and is retained well in oilite and other bushings, allowing long service intervals, smoother running, & longer trains with less wear.
Just like the manufactures recommended Oil
some folks here have hundreds of locos and thousands of cars in their collections and maintaining them all could be a full-time job.
That's not even worth a response.
The multi-viscosity aspect is moot. A 5W-20 will be 5W for all uses in model trains.
Thanks for explaining my point...Just a quick question on this. Wasn't it you that said some where that you prefer 5w-20 over 5w-30 and why are you not using a straight weight?
wiz1500You guy's do no that if automotive oil is not brought up to operating temperature on a regular bases it will start to absorb condensation and that if gone unchecked it will produce acids in the oil.
This is completely false with regard to toy train use.
This would only be true only if the oil is subjected to combustion gasses and cooling cycles in the first place - like in a car engine. Not in your Lionel or American Flyer.
wiz1500I think Lionel and the others have done the home work. I'll stick with what they tell me to use...If you are concerned about your grease getting hard then you need to step up you P.M. ( preventative maintenance ) work.
Suit yourself, but why not take advantage of the newest technologies in lubricants to make the hobby more enjoyable for you?
Here is the big question..................If using automotive oil is such a good idea why is it that the manufactures are not using it or recommending the use of it. I would think that if this brings more play value and less possibility for warranty work they would be waving a big flag. Hey it's all good every one has there TRAIN of thought.LOL..We can agree to not agree.....I'll buy you a beer my friend..
Keith Podolan
P.S. From all that I've researched over the years the best oil on he market is Royal Purple That is the only thing that go's in all my race engines. Except the bikes because we have to lube a wet clutch in the trans along with motor. But that's all for another day..
I have been using the 3 in 1 motor oil with good effect as opposed to the regular 3 in 1. I do not really get it on any plastic parts. On the newer engines with plastic gears it would be best to use a plastic compatible oil but so far I have not seen any bad effects but I really only have a couple of those. I have some engines with plastic gears that I had as a child in the 1970s that have most likely had whatever oil (most likely 3 in 1 and or motor oil) was in my parents garage and they still run fine
dogdoc
It is also much less expensive than "hobby" oils & greases... some folks here have hundreds of locos and thousands of cars in their collections and maintaining them all could be a full-time job.
Just my 2 cents... Why are you guy's putting a multi viscosity automotive oil onto your prized trains?
If I was going to run my trains on the back deck in Michigan on a nice January day at 4 degrees I would think about the 5 weight so it would flow a little easier. On the same token if my engine were running at 190 degrees and 9000 r.p.m. I would want the 20 weight to handle the heat and shear load.
I would be very concerned about modern additives that are being put into automotive type oil having a adverse affect on your models. These oils are designed for very extreme operations . High shear loads,combustion and extreme temperature swings just to name a few.. This is not a case of over kill this is a case of doing damage. You guy's do no that if automotive oil is not brought up to operating temperature on a regular bases it will start to absorb condensation and that if gone unchecked it will produce acids in the oil. This acid WILL start to attack metal...Ask any classic car guy about it.
I think Lionel and the others have done the home work. I'll stick with what they tell me to use...If you are concerned about your grease getting hard then you need to step up you P.M. ( preventative maintenance ) work.As far as some one telling me that they did a scientific test by running a few loco's around and looking at an amp load or voltage gauge I would call in to question the parameters of the said testing apparatis.
I used 5W-20 because it has a fairly low viscosity, and it is readily available. You could use 5W-30 without a problem. It has a slightly higher viscosity at high temperature, but I don't think anything on the train is going to get very hot. I used 20W-40 years ago with OK results. Higher viscosity oils will have a higher drag, but will stay in place better. Did you every try to wash 90 weight gear oil off of anything. It is difficult to remove even with kerosene. In my opinion, 90 wt is too heavy an oil for this application.
Bruce Baker
I use Hoppes Gun oil and regular wheel bearing grease without any ill effects.
Bruce,
I'm about to try motor oil on my Hudson. You say use 5W20. What about 5W30 or some other weight? Does it matter. I have plenty of 5W30 and others but no 5W20. I even have some non detergent motor oil.
Thanks,
Mickey
The problem with 3 in 1 oil getting gummy is why I recommend 5W-20 engine oil. It won't get gummy because it has a low vapor pressure. I have a 55 year history of using engine oil for lubricating Lionel trains, and don't have any problems to report. It does stay on the gears. I recently cleaned some hardened grease out of the truck of a 2343, and it is clear that this type of grease should never be used for greasing a Lionel train.
One thing to remember, guys, is that we are dealing with items that have a very long life. The oldest Lionel train I have was made in 1915. The only thing I had to do to it was replace the wiring, and it is still running. Most items don't have lives of 100 years. So we need to lube out trains with stuff that doesn't dry out or harden with age. Once again, that is why I picked engine oil. Even in the crankcase of an engine at temperatures of 220 degrees or so, it doesn't thicken or harden. My friend who is a lubricants experts, says turbine oil would be better, but it is not enough better to warrant the added difficulty of obtaining it.
I use 5W-20 to lube everything: bearings, gears, couplers, bolsters, transformers, screws, switches. I even use it to lube the commutators on the motors, and it does not cause any problems. The 2343 that I cleaned up and relubed with 5W-20 will pull an 8 car train with 7 volts at the transformer. I have never seen a post war Lionel engine run so smoothly. It is a dual motor Santa Fe F-3.
Texas PeteI quit using 3-in-one long time ago (over 30 years!) because it tended to get gummy.
I quit using 3-in-one long time ago (over 30 years!) because it tended to get gummy.
Same here. I got my first Lionel in the early Fifties, and when I started bringing them back to life in the Seventies, the first thing I had to do was clean out the accumulated crud of all that old 3-in-1 oil. It didn't harm anything, it just made a mess in the long run.
I use all synthetics [oil and lube]. Funny, I had forgotten Singer. Used it as a kid on my Post Wars. They still run today.
God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of the NRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified
Just re- enforcing what SJ said ... some oil/lubricants will deteriorate plastic ! Never use that white lithium grease ... either . I'm not going to specify what I use or what to use ... just starts an argument ...
Thanks to everyone for the input. I'm going to conclude that I didn't do any harm with the sewing machine lub (which is or seems to be just a light white grease not the oil and is in an old lead tube) and 3-in-1 oil. I used an empty Labelle's oil dispenser with that nice needle and just filled it with 3-in-1. Works great.
You want something to stick - how about chain saw chain oil????????? Probably not.
Got another question for you that are looking for another excuse to talk trains. We've been buying used track here and there and some need minor repair. Are those track pliers worth it for crimping the pins and ends of the tube track? I have more questions but I'll take a breather.
Thanks again, Mickey
Old post war engines are still running after years of 3-in-1 oil and vaseline. I have read that some even use motor oil as it being heavier will stay in place. Just watch for the safe for plastics label if you don't know the product.
"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks
Charter Member- Tardis Train Crew (TTC) - Detroit3railers- Detroit Historical society Glancy Modular trains- Charter member BTTS
I quit using 3-in-one long time ago (over 30 years!) because it tended to get gummy. Maybe it's been reformulated since then, don't know. Sewing machine oil should do nicely, though.
I like to use Marvel Air Tool oil on rolling stock axles, it's plastic safe and lightweight, and I use Lucas Heavy Duty Air Tool "lubricant" on locomotive axles, also plastic safe but slightly thicker than the Marvel. The air tool stuff also contains rust inhibitors, not a bad idea for a garage setup like mine.
For grease I use a waterproof red grease that was marketed by BullShot as bicycle grease. It appears to be the red Lucas grease that some folks use, smells just like it too.
Although I'm only recently getting into 3-rail O trains, I've been using this stuff for years on HO equipment with no ill effects. Keep in mind the universal toy train lubricating principle - less is more. DO NOT overlubricate!
Quite frankly, I just don't see the point of coughing up seven bucks for two cents worth of lube that a marketeer buys in bulk and then repackages. However, if you feel like you are protecting some kind of "investment" (LOL) then by all means feel free to have your pocket picked.
Pete
"You can’t study the darkness by flooding it with light." - Edward Abbey -
I think an interesting question might not just include what is used but how often......i.e., after how many operating hours or situational considerations.
My Christmas operations take place on the floor where dog and cat hair, and dust bunnies, come into the picture. I won't tell you how much tinsel I removed from engines and cars's moving parts when I first resurrected my trains about a quarter century ago, despite the aforementioned diligence. That stuff can find hiding places.
Anything "engine" that I store and don't run for months/years gets a once over after I confirm that it is working in the first place.
Jack
IF IT WON'T COME LOOSE BY TAPPING ON IT, DON'T TRY TO FORCE IT. USE A BIGGER HAMMER.
My 2046 just hit 60 and the Singer was all I used till it ran out. Worked for me. I currently (20 years) use the Lionel stuff because I can get the application needle into the recesses easily without a problem. I also used the 3 in 1 for about 10 years when the sewing machine oil ran out. No problema.
Lionel grease originally. Then vaseline on the gears for about a decade (too thick for my taste), switched to white lithium grease 30 years ago or so. No problema.
The original everything still shows little sign of wear.
Others may take issue, but that is what I have done and it has worked for me. To me "clean, oiled, and greased" with routine maintenance is as important as what product is used on the metal stuff. Worked for me on slot cars too whether I was running brass or aluminum gears, brass or ball bearings.
If I had plastic gears I'd do some reading first.
kgstones I've read some old threads that I found about lubricants. Just want to make sure as I've just started back into this and was anxious to try out our first purchase, 4-6-4, so I lubed the gears with Singer sewing machine lubricant and oiled other parts with 3 in 0ne. I didn't have anything else. Did I mess up? Couldn't tell from reading what I found or the labels. The part about plastic compatible has me concerned. And, while I'm at it, is there a ball park time frame for how often this should be done? Thanks, and sorry, I know some of you are rolling your eyes as this topic has been discussed a lot. Mickey
I've read some old threads that I found about lubricants. Just want to make sure as I've just started back into this and was anxious to try out our first purchase, 4-6-4, so I lubed the gears with Singer sewing machine lubricant and oiled other parts with 3 in 0ne. I didn't have anything else. Did I mess up? Couldn't tell from reading what I found or the labels. The part about plastic compatible has me concerned.
And, while I'm at it, is there a ball park time frame for how often this should be done?
Thanks, and sorry, I know some of you are rolling your eyes as this topic has been discussed a lot.
Mickey,
I don't know if Singer sewing machine lubricant or 3 in 0ne are good, bad, or neither, but I can tell you that before using the only lubricants available in your house, spend a few bucks and buy the right products. As an example, for $7 per item, Labelle Industries makes high quality lubricants including gear lube and motor oil. Better safe than sorry!
Rich
Alton Junction
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