Are toy train companies reaching out to youth... or are they...

[Anonymous]

This is an excellent thread. Cheapclassics and daan's messages are right on target!
Bill
www.modeltrainjournal.com

[Anonymous]

I love this topic. Elliot's comment on wooden trains and playability was spot on and forces me to make the following TRUE confession of how I got started in toy trains....

Nine years ago I was 38 years old and my wife of 13 years and I decided to have a child. So my wife's preger's and we are hitting the baby stores looking for just the perfect crib, rocker and such. Noticed Brio for the first time. Started playing with Brio in the store, after all cribs start to look alike after 50 or 60 of them. Bought a Brio set ... for the future child of course. Played with Brio at home ... bought more Brio, really cool stuff for the child ... wife is still preggers... played with Brio... Santa brought me, I mean my future son another Brio set ... Son's born ... we play Brio... we buy Brio .... detour through HO as mentioned earlier ... now happily PLAYING with Lionel and going to shows.

So there you have the true confession of a grown man that Brio brought back to the fold. One other confession, I did have a small oval Lionel layout when I in the 5th grade but it was given to me the same year I found out what a garage sale was and that people would pay me money, late 60's dollars, for stuff.... Wish I still had my old Lionel, my Ideal Motorific set, my old Hotwheels, comic books, etc. ...Can't blame my mom or my dad, emptied my room of my own free will ... pure greed.

Still need to play with the CPI calculators.

Steve

[Anonymous]

Steve:

I remember Motorific! I had a set when I was a kid. That then lead to Aurora HO slot cars. That Motorific set is long gone, though, along with the slot cars. Think they ended up in the trash.

Tony

[Anonymous]

Tony,

This is off topic but my Aurora HO slot cars went in the same garage sales. There appears to be a little interest on ebay for Motorific but much more interest in Aurora HO Tunderjet cars and track. There apear to be small independent companies resin casting new bodies to supply an apparent increasing demand for Thunderjet bodies. Ok back to trains. I've noticed a few comments in HO slot car forums about intergrating train sets inn their racing layouts.

Good day to all,
Steve

[Big_Boy_4005]

The Aurora and the Tyco roadway systems both had HO grade crossings available. Tyco even had huge combo sets including both trains and cars up into the 80's.

I think eventually, it was determined that too many kids were learning bad habits about racing trains at grade crossings, and that track section was discontinued.

Then the whole slotcar market collapsed, when RC took over. Now kids were no longer tied to a track, they could make their own dirt track or race course.

Play value strikes again!!! [swg]

[Anonymous]

Hi guys,

Here's some fuel for the fire.

1) Why is the consensus always that we are failing to attract children to toy trains? We collectively may be doing just fine, although we won't know the results for another 20 to 30 years.

If you think about it, between Thomas, Brio, train shows, mall displays, store displays, and marketing efforts like the World's Greatest Hobby program, what Lionel did with Wendy's last year and will do with the Polar Express movie this year, and what MTH did with Macy's in New York last Christmas, toy trains are far more a part of popular culture today than they were 20 years ago.

If you go back 50 years, trains were a much bigger part of everyday life, but today all of the marketing efforts in the world aren't going to bring that back.

2) If you're expecting to toy trains to be as popular with kids as PlayStation, Nintendo, or Gameboy, your expectations are unrealistic. I've got 5 boys at home ages 11-17 and I was a Cub Scout den leader for 6 years, so trust me on this one.

3) Lionel is owned by Wellspring, which is an investment company. Wellspring is looking for a return on its investment now, not years into the future. MTH and the other companies also need to be profitable in the present, and must balance that need with the need for new customers in the future.

4) Either Lionel or MTH did indeed advertise in Boy's Life. I saw the ads. MTH advertised in National Geographic, too. If the ads had worked, they'd still be there. Remember, while Lionel and MTH are big companies to us, in the real world they are small potatoes, and can't possible pay for all of the advertising we'd all like to see.

5) As for Toys R Us and Wal-Mart, those companies are in it to make money, not promote hobbies. If another toy sells more units at a better profit than a train set at Toys R Us, then the Toys R Us people are going to pull train sets off the shelf and replace them with the more profitable or higher volume toy.

Anyway, like I said, more fuel for the fire.

Neil Besougloff
editor, Classic Toy Trains

[Anonymous]

I know this is heresy, but is attracting kids really the key to survival of Model railroading, toy trains, whatever you want to call it?
In the early days, model trains were toys, expensive toys, but toys. Like Lionel and American Flyer. Not anymore. It's a great activity to share with kids, but except for some starter sets, most model trains are bought and used by adults.

And the real growth in model trains was in HO, and, I think, mostly by adults. And aren't the majority of N scalers and Garden railroaders adults? The same with RC planes and cars, boats, and wargamers? I read that the video game industry has flattened out because they can't attract more adult gamers.

Model railroading is a specialty hobby, like those I listed above. It's main appeal is to adults who like collecting, operating trains, modeling and scenery, or those that are nostalgic for what they had, or wanted, as kids. Kids like toys they can handle, like Thomas, Brio, and Lego. Most modern trains won't stand up to that kind of handling, because that's not what they are made for.

[daan]

Which model-railway doesn't attract children????
It attracts children, but parents rather buy a playstation because it's cheaper. And it's rediculous to compare any train with a playstation. Most of the children have both, or at least want both.
No, I guess the whole problem is the fact that money is the main issue about toytrains these days and not the toytrains themselves. Money is nice to have, if possible more than you need to survive, but if it's going to overrule the major issue, something is wrong. The major issue in this case is building model trains.
Of course the investors need to see results, but it need not be that way that people don't buy your stuff because it's too expensive. If you, as a factory with a name everybody knows, accept that people buy other brands than yours because of the price, you are making a HUGE MISTAKE. People are prepared to pay a bit more for good quality (name!!) and if you make it well and sell it for a nice price with the good name on it, you can make a good profit.
Lionel will never have a good profit this way, they moved their factory, not to lower the prices, but because everybody else does. Probably their margin is bigger, but they sell less, so it equals out..
I'm not the expert,but if it would be my factory... Those chairmen lack the sence of pride for their product. If you're proud about your product, the last thing you do is move it to a low-cost country, where building procedures are less precize, where plastic recepies are not well tested and where employees stay away when they got their paycheck.
I can't emagine you can guarantee a good productquality at a good price that way. Really good operators, who know about things do cost about the same in china as in the western world, they are not stupid. Only the assembly would be a low cost job, because you need nothing else than a sort of hands to move with and some sight to see what you're doing, but such laybour is also cheap in the western world.
It's not about toytrains anymore, it's marketing and management, making money, pleasing investors.. Someday they have to realize that they actually do that by making a product which aquires knowledge, workmanship and pride to capture a certain "spirit" which they miss when chopped together by uninterested and low educated people.
Children will see the difference, and parents don't spend 100 dollar on a plastic toy.

[Anonymous]

PLAY VALUE??? Bah!! I am an adult, my kids are grown....play value??? To me play value just means that it runs well. I'm sorry but the maudlin treacly image of the wise smiling (condescending) adult teaching wide eyed kids how to operate his train makes me want to gag. There! I said it! That's just how I feel....so sue me. And the thought of those greedy rapacious capitalists actually making a PROFIT off my purchase of their merchandise doesn't bother me a bit. The manufacturers are no more likely to make trains at a loss just so you can have cheap trains than you are likely to work for no wages just to make THEM more profits. I read this thread until I just had to blow off steam. THAT'S MY TWO CENTS WORTH too. Odd-d

[Anonymous]

Upon reading my post above it could be construed that I don't like kids. What I am trying to express is that too many people hide their interest in trains behind a curtain of saying, " Oh, these trains aren't for mee-ee, Oh no no nono no, they're for the (ahem) kids, heh,heh, heh," when the kids are not in the least interested. I guess the kindly father figure gently introducing the child into the wondrous world of railroading has been done to death with me. If my grandkids are interested in my trains I'll be happy to show them, but I will not chase them down the hall to try to make them evince an interest in them. Most people who buy the starter sets just hand them to the kid and then go off to watch the news and sleep in front of the tube. That's pretty much what my dad did. Many people assume that if a kid is young he will automatically know all about trains without any effort on their part. For most people the ideal toy is something that will keep the kid occupied and out of their hair. Our tax guy once brought his son over to our house to show him my trains. The father asked me to show my trains to the kid, and the kid just rolled his eyes up at the ceiling and said,"Aw-ww, dad, I don't wanna look at this ***!" So I shrugged my shoulders and turned off the transformer. The father asked me again and I declined unless the kid himself asked me. The father looked at the kid who sighed and asked me in avery unenthusiastic manner so I complied and a strained time was had by all. Odd-d

[Anonymous]

Toy companies like Lionel are just interested in the "big buck". They come up with all of this "collector" hype so the middle aged train enthusiast will reach deep into his pockets. IMO, stuff of new manufacture is not usually a collectible, perhaps a future collectible but to sell something as "collectible in an instant" certainly raises some questions. The only way that youth will be interested in model trains is if WE give train sets as gifts to them now. Perhaps as they grow up, they will remember the fun operating them and keep the hobby going.

[daan]

Liking trains is something in your blood. It's like a bit of DNA. A lot of people in my family are technicians, just like I am,and a lot of them "play the trains" too. We simply have a DNA-thing in our blood to tell us that. My dad and mom were not interested in trains, but my whole childhood I've build layouts on my own in my bedroom (which was quite big). Eventually other members of the family got interested and started too.
In another way, some guys are completely into football (which doesn't interest me at all).
The whole thing/issue about this thread is that the step to take when starting this hobby is too big for pocketmoney and "presents". I love to see that Lionel makes huge expensive special collectables, but also would like to see that the other end of the market would be served, and specially that my side of the market would have any trains of this brand for sale. One week, then we have a huge trainshow/ trainmarket in Utrecht, where I'll try to find a bit more Lionel-stuff.