jayres1973I bought a MTH railking with Protosound/smoke yesterday. I was looking at the MTH DCS, but the shop owner suggested that I buy a KW transformer instead. He guaranteed the KW for a year, unlike the DCS system. So, now, .... being the first train set I've ever owned, I put the track together, .... it's the lionel fastrack O 36, it's all they had .. I was wanting the atlas stuff, but back to the situation, I wired the transformer to the track, set the loco and the tender on the track, the headlight lit briefly, the smoke was filling the room but it wouldn't move. So, I pushed the direction button on the KW a few times and the MTH started moving to my delight., .... made the chugging sounds, brakes squeals, horn, whistle, ... that was all good. that worked for about ten minutes. I stopped the loco by the handle on the KW and then unplugged the KW from the wall. I went back in the room powered it up again and the loco started running but no sound, no chug, no lights, ...... and now the loco won't move it just sits there puffing smoke as it should, not from anywhere else, ... but no movement. "Did I just burn up a lot of money??? thanks, Jeremy
First I'm not the best on this but to my understanding :
I'm lost as why he would sugest the KW over a DCS system as to get the most out of the engine you need the DCS system.
now the KW is great but it can't do all the DCS can for a MTH engine as KW is Lionel and just a transformer not the operating system.
Now for what the engine did I'm not sure but it should be under warnanty but after you get this all straightened I think I would be finding a new hobby shop. Now the person to help the most that I can think of is Don Baker hes out in CA. but comes on here very regular. he goes into the coffee shop I will try to email and see if he can give you better help
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Check the engine's manual about the battery and the charging procedures. A PS-2 engine won't run with a dead battery and it's possible the one in the unit may need to charge up for a while if it's been on the shelf in the shop.
Should power it up in idle and let it sit for several hours. Not the best way to charge one. I have a charger that plugs in. KW is OK but should have some overload protection. The breaker in the KW is NOT enough.
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You can do a search here of the forum, or, you could search MTH's web site for information regarding the charging system on your engine. From what I recall, you leave the engine on the track with the engine in neutral and the transformer at 18v for a few hours.
Dennis
TCA#09-63805
Fastest way to charge is leave engine on the track and let it sit at 12 volts. Put paper on the track in front of the engine so if it were to take off the engine would run onto the paper and stop. If after ten or fifteen minutes the engine still does not run it may need to be charged outside the tender or replaced. Depends how long the dealer had it. It takes about 12 hours for a full charge.
I have some of their engines(seven or eight) and would like to say a few words about them, but I won't.
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sir james II have some of their engines(seven or eight) and would like to say a few words about them, but I won't.
Don't worry, SJ, over the years many of said plenty. At least Jeremy is not using RealTrax switches. Did I mention to you guys that I had to fix another one?
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If you do the battery charge on the tracks be sure to turn off the smoke.
If you want you could always add the DCS controls later. Per the MTH site the KW is compatible.
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I too am really curious as to why they would suggest a KW over DCS.
The shop wasn't Berkshire Trains in Lexington by some remote chance, was it?
If you go to the MTH website and do a search for the engine based on either the part number or the number on the engine you will be able to read an on-line owner's manual. It will tell you where the smoke and sound control switches are located.
Not being familiar with your locomotive, but it may have a switch in the cab, or under it that can shut off smoke without using DCS to do it. May want to check before the charging. If you leave the smoke unit on and let it run out of smoke fluid, it will burn the smoke unit up.
The transformer might just not be compatible with the engine. My MTH does wierd things when I run it on the Lionel CW-80 transformer. Might be that.
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Hi Guys,
I can give you one REALLY GOOD possible reason that the shop reccomended the KW rather than DCS. Jeremy said that his Locomotive has Proto Sound & Proto Smoke, he didn't say it has Proto Sound 2. DCS wont do anything for a PS1 locomotive that conventional control wont do, as far as I know.
Jeremy has PM'ed me and said that he has gotten the 3 Clangs of Doom, which is usually from a PS1 locomotive with a weak battery. From what I know, and what he has told me, it sounds like he needs a reset kit, to restore aq scrambled control chip.
Doug
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
I think If you are using the Lionel KW you will need a Lionel 6-5906 Sound Activation button(about $15) to get the most out of your MTH with Proto Sound. Secondly, with regards to the battery. If you replace it with a J&W Battery 9 volt replacement, you will never have to charge your battery again. They are about $20, but well worth it. Ready to go when you start the engine. MTH is OK, but I really love my Legacy. Hope this helps. However, the MTH do pour out some smoke.
Berk765 The transformer might just not be compatible with the engine. My MTH does wierd things when I run it on the Lionel CW-80 transformer. Might be that.
Hi Berk,
is your locomotive a Proto Sound 2 locomotive? Some PS2 locomotives will blow their Whistles/Horns near continuously when run with a CW-80. The CW-80 uses a "Phase Control" current, that confuses the electronics in some PS2 locomotives, it doesn't hurt them to the best of my knowledge. Also with PS 2 locomotives, you can't access the Station Sounds/Freight Yard sounds and remote couplers with a CW-80.
Other than the PS2 issues, I Really Like the CW-80 transformer, when used within it's abilities, it just is not a ZW.
Jeremy,Stick with it bud... I think what happened here is a classic case of the newbie being taken. The engine you bought is not the latest and greatest MTH has to offer. If I were you I would take the KW and the engine back to the hobby store you bought them from. I would then recommend purchasing a Z4000 and a PS2 loco. No need to get involved in DCS at this time, the only thing the DCS system will offer you is remote control of your engine, the Z4000 gives you access to nearly all the PS2 features through the builtin buttons.Many people will shy away from PS1 locos due to their 'fragility' meaning you have to know what you are working with and how to avoid the 'scrambled board' problem. Lionel has had their problems with their TMCC and Legacy systems. What I recommend to new comers is to visit a couple stores, and if you can layouts that use the various control systems. A good place to do this is at shows where they have layouts setup. Listen to the different sound systems, ask for demos on the control systems, etc. Once you settle on what you like stick with it, you can run both Lionel Conventional Control, TMCC and Legacy engines with DCS - but you won't get all the TMCC or Legacy features with DCS, and you can run MTH Conventional Control, PS1 and PS2 engines with TMCC or Legacy - but you won't get all the PS2 features...BTW - I was at the LTS yesterday and there was a guy in there with an MTH HO w/PS3 nice engine but he was having problems with it... so it isn't just O gauge that has problems.
Hi Jeremy,
If your locomotive is a Proto Sound (1) not Proto Sound 2, the KW, will let you access everything your locomotive will do including the remote coupler, like I explained in my last PM. You only need the bell button for the PS2 features. Also if you have a PS (1), not a PS2 locomotive to upgrade it to PS2 is about as expensive as just buying a PS2 locomotive anyway, unless you can install the upgrade your self (not just plug-n-play).
There is a LOT to learn, but hang in there, it will come faster and easier than you expect.
when you first turn loco on are the sounds garbeled if so the battery needs charged.
as to no engine movement upon startup of a ps-1 loco they go into a reset state as it under goes a system check this usually lasts 3-4 seconds, after that time you can move the power handle to off and then on again and the engine will respond by moving in a forward direction if you move handle of transformer to off and then reapply power it will go into a nuetral position power off and on again and it will go backwards. a side note if power to track is off more than 3 seconds it will re-enter the reset state again and cycle the power off and on as above. hope this helps you. the smoke unit has an on\off switch under the cab on steamers on the right side diesels are somewhere on the underside too. when you can even though the kw is good get yourself a MTH Z-4000 transformer as it can do the PS-1 resets if needed oh so much easier then clanks and bells.
as to DCS its good but unless you have a lot of mth engines not needed till you get a few of the ps-2 units then the fun really begins with cool features only imitated in a childs mind! enjoy ps-1 was state of the art not so long ago.
read a post on 3 clangs of death was this a new engine sold to you? if so take it back and have them make it correct as a warranty. I would also look else where for a reliable mth dealer preferebly with an in house repair shop and a certified tech with MTH.
to bad tas no longer sells direct as they had a board that was tmcc compatible and you could still use the ps-1 sound board with it best of both worlds true command control and original ps-1 sounds I have 4 ps-1 locos going loud and strong.
you will find this hobby to be challenging at times and at the same time rewarding, I still get a warm feeling when I set a conventional controlled engine on the track power it up and send it out with the steam whistle blowing sometimes simplicity is awesome, hang in there we've all been down the same road as you it's known as a learning curve! the best advice I can give you is surf here and the other train forums it's filled with a wealth of knowledge and the best part it's free all you have to do is ask and the information will follow.
Hi Jeremy
I just looked at MTH's website, your locomotive is PS (1) not PS2, looks to have a thumbtack rear coupler, not a proto coupler (remote control), so from what I can tell, there was nothing at all wrong with getting the KW with this. If your locomotive has a bell sound (MTH website didn't give details) that would be the only function that the KW wouldn't operate.
From what I have learned here on the forum, the scrambled board is not something that the Z4000 would fix, you need the descramble kit, I could be wrong, but that is the best current info, that I know.
Your shop has the kit, they may be able to do it for you, but those that have used it, say that it is easy to do once you have the kit.
BTW, that looks like a Very Nice locomotive you've got there, my Nephew would be Jealous, I got him started in O-Gauge, Santa Fe, his Little Brother, some Cousins and myself model Union Pacific( I also collect Southern Pacific) and another of his Cousins I got started in New York Central.
All of this is why I rarely buy MTH. Especially PS1. If I do buy a PS1 [cheap], I gut it and install an Electric RR kit and get TMCC, Railsounds and cruise.
I would not jump to conclusions with the 3 clangs of death too quickly. If you haven't already, a good charging is all the battery may need. I have a PS-1 DL-109/110 set that did the death clang a few years ago. It would not move. The horn would blow continuously when I tried to cycle forward. All the symtoms of death. I then charged it in neutral for 2 hours. After that, it took right off. Horn would only blow when I triggered it and all. I then gave it a full 10 hour charge and everything has been fine since. Not once did I ever give it a good charge since the day I bought it so that may explain it.
Otherwise, I know your pain. Once you get past this obstacle, you'll be fine. The KW is a good powerful transformer. It just has goofy voltage taps. It's a dissapointment the dealer who sold it to you didn't prep the engine for you.
3railguy I would not jump to conclusions with the 3 clangs of death too quickly. If you haven't already, a good charging is all the battery may need. I have a PS-1 DL-109/110 set that did the death clang a few years ago. It would not move. The horn would blow continuously when I tried to cycle forward. All the symtoms of death. I then charged it in neutral for 2 hours. After that, it took right off. Horn would only blow when I triggered it and all. I then gave it a full 10 hour charge and everything has been fine since. Not once did I ever give it a good charge since the day I bought it so that may explain it. Otherwise, I know your pain. Once you get past this obstacle, you'll be fine. The KW is a good powerful transformer. It just has goofy voltage taps. It's a dissapointment the dealer who sold it to you didn't prep the engine for you.
3railguy makes some good points here. I do remember you saying that the shop forgot to put the battery back in the packaging. Before you jump to conclusions about the engine, wait for the battery to arrive, and give it a good charge. I would also highly recommend the BCR that was recommended earlier.Your 3 Clangs of death may simply be the fact that the battery is missing.
The real tragedy here is the fact this store sold a new customer an old product, although new,way out of date and an even older transformer. I say if you bought it with a credit card take it back and go shop somewhere else. these people will never be your friend. There are a lot of brands to choose from look at some others before buying.
Boy do I ever agree with you SJ, I was at a train show yesterday and there were lots of PS1 engines for sale. And many people were amazed at the low price for a "remote control" engine at such a low price. The unsuspecting buyers were talking about how they had seen the remote engines and all the features, and didn't realize they could get them at such a low price. The sellers didn't mention the differance. I tried to hang around and get an opportunity to explain the differance, but wasn't very successful. I too would return the train and transformer. The engine is what, a 90's engine, and a 50-60's transformer? Engine may be new in box, but for a little more could get a "true" remote. Need a better train shop! There are a lot of Ready to Run sets available, and entry level products in multiple manufacturers.
Don
dbaker48 Boy do I ever agree with you SJ, I was at a train show yesterday and there were lots of PS1 engines for sale. And many people were amazed at the low price for a "remote control" engine at such a low price.
LOL....In my neck of the woods, half the show dealers want full price for PS-1 and blame the economy for the stuff rotting on their tables. There is a RK PS-1 1130 SF northern on ebay right now and the dealer wants full price: $479 buy it now. Jeremy is saying he got his for $250 so maybe he did get a good deal. I dunno. The RK Northern is a dramatic looking beast and I can see why he hesitates to return it at that price. Knowing the battery issues and how they can be dealt with, I know I would be tempted to spring if it was staring at me in the face at that price. I did this with an FP-45 I got for $150 not long ago and I am very happy with it.
Getting through this and using TLC with the battery may very well be the best alternative judging from the beauty of the engine and the price he paid. I just think the dealer should prep things better and be more informative in these situations if they expect repeat business. Additionally, being new to the hobby, Jeremy's stomach does not need this. I can feel his pain but on the other side of the coin, I'm seeing a jar that's half full here. Not half empty.
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