Lionel..Please explain why I want to buy this piece of.............

[J. Daddy]

Maybe it's just a cute toy, not a model train?

Or Lionel's attempt to provide satisfaction for those who enjoy expressing indignation over other people's toys? 

yeah but cute trains don't cost 89.00!!! Ouch!

[nblum]

Maybe it's just a cute toy, not a model train?

 

Or Lionel's attempt to provide satisfaction for those who enjoy expressing indignation over other people's toys? 

[sir james I]

Maybe we missed the point, we know it's made wrong and too high, but there is a little boy out there(eness76)who loves his engine. And I'm sure he is not the only one. But Lionel sure could have given this little boy a much better effort.

[brianel027]

Carl, as I mentioned earlier, Lionel made the plastic frame and body modification in 1996. The first Alco's made with this mod were the separate sale Reading ones. That loco did not look like this one. I'd be inclinded to wonder if  a production error was made: that the former Alco shell made to go on the sheet metal frame was used on the plastic frame rather than using the newer modified Alco shell that also was used for a Amtrak and Santa Fe Alco as someone else mentioned.

I also like the story told by enss. But he also mentioned getting the loco very cheap. It's an open question as to whether he would have paid more for the same loco? For normal retail or normal discount pricing, there are far better loco choices.

And as for myself, I don't take myself too seriously. I don't count rivets nor compare models to actual builders drawings, or measure them with scale rulers and then write complaints about it on other forums. And I love modern roads on toy trains like the Alco FA and the S-2 even though those locos were long retired before.

This is just the product area loco I normally buy. the K-Lionel S-2 loco is a far better value than this one though. And I think that S-2 is the best loco made in the past few decades... I'd take the K-Line S-2 over any other scale/electronically loaded loco, both for price and superb reliability. And if Lionel made one of these in Norfolk Southern, I'd buy one and I wouldn't complain that the Norfolk Southern doesn't have any S-2 switchers either.

[choochin3]

Methinks that the reason that Alco looks like a monster truck is that Lionel changed the frame from metal to plastic.

The metal frame hung down over the top of the truck and closed some of that gap.

 

Carl T.

[sparks32]

This "High Water Train" was not made by Lionel for sale at Target, this train was made for Disney by Lionel for sale at Target!  Disney plans to remake the Ugly Daushound movie into a kids movie and this "Great Dane" will be the starring role as a Big Train trying to fit in with his smaller brothers and sisters trains, just imagine what happens when he tries to fit where he can't go just because his brothers and sisters trains could!  It could be the funniest train movie you ever saw and maybe Will Ferrell will be the voice of Brutus. " I think I can fit, I think I can fit, Whoops, Oh No, I Couldn't Fit"!    BAD TRAIN! 

                                                                      Sincerely,

                                                                      [e-mail]

[jwse30]

It is good to not always take ourselves so seriously when playing with toy trains. :)

Not quite as catchy as "Model Railroading is fun!", but every bit as true.

Thanks for some wisdom,

 

J White

 

[lionelsoni]

Those are not just trucks that are way too high, they are EMD trucks that are way too high!

[prewardude]

Dear Lionel,

... In order to make some $$$ on this locomotive, I would suggest you rename it the CRASH and BURN LOCOMOTIVE.  With such a high center of gravity if would be great for the kids to use at full speed heading into a tight curve where it could fly off the track.  If the layout was oreiented correclty, they might be able to launch it through a window pane of their house.  Wow! That would be better than a baseball through the window in my book...

[dbaker48]

Eness,

Thanks for sharing, I was hoping that there was someone out there that would relate your exact situation.  That is tremendous, both you and your son win!  Your not concerned regarding the value, and if something is destroyed.  He has something that is HIS, and will have more lattitude with, and fun with.    Good job.

(I don't think I will buy one to have on my layout for kids use, however.)

[eness76]

I will say that this engine, while ugly and clearly directed at the toy market, does serve a purpose.  I have a 3yr old son, and we play together with my toy trains almost every day, but he knows those are Daddy's trains.  So last christmas I picked one of these "high-water specials" up on the Bay brand new for next to nothing, wrapped it nicely and put it under the tree for him to unwrap as HIS first engine.  He now wants nothing to do with Daddy's steam turbine, or trainmaster, or even F3 set, it is HIS train he wants to run.  It does a nice job too on short light consists around our layout, navigates 022 switches flawlessly and generally provides lots of hours of fun for him, and in turn, me.  It is fast enough that he can accidently dump it too, and the rest of you that started at this when you were a kid know, the lure of dumping it is half the fun.  So I'm going to cut against the grain here and say mission accomplished Lionel, you've made one heck of a toy for my son.  Offering something for everyone seems to be a good business plan in my opinion.  It is good to not always take ourselves so seriously when playing with toy trains. :)

[warner brook]

hi buckeye

there`s actually a prototype sitting in the yard in johnsonburgh pa.

[geedub]

I am thinking of converting my entire collection of postwar engines to this highwater model.......

[kpolak]

Is Lionel totally to blame for this one?

Was Target involved in the decision making on this design?

Kurt

[Last Chance]

Occasionally Im astounded by the highs (Or was it the lows?) Companies seek on thier products.

That poor engine ought to be taken back to the shop and rebuilt proper.

[Buckeye Riveter]

Dear Lionel,

Please accept my appologies for posting this topic.  I sure didn't know that 670 995 1,447 1,991 people were interested in a HIGH WATER LOCOMOTIVE when I posted this topic.  Now you have a problem due to so many people knowing about this piece of ????????.

In order to make some $$$ on this locomotive, I would suggest you rename it the CRASH and BURN LOCOMOTIVE.  With such a high center of gravity if would be great for the kids to use at full speed heading into a tight curve where it could fly off the track.  If the layout was oreiented correclty, they might be able to launch it through a window pane of their house.  Wow! That would be better than a baseball through the window in my book. 

Incidently, a friend of mine in Colorado asked for some help in buying a train set for the grandson just the other day.  Sorry, but I couldn't put this locmotive on the list, so another sale down the tubes.

Again, my apologies,

[sir james I]

I can think of only one Lionel that looks worse, don't remember the year or # thankfully, but it was a GP they made for J C Penny  christmas catalog. As far as I know Pennys stopped  having a Lionel special edition after that.

[cnw1995]

Brian is right. Not only did I see it last winter (I liked the packaging which let you see the engine and cars behind cellophane by flipping up the 'lid'), it was able to past the "five-year-old test" - where my youngest easily could re-rail the one they had out of the box. Now he can't easily do that with a smaller-trucked engine or trolley - even Percy.

[Cubster]

IF:

• you could throw it against a wall without anything breaking
• the paint was certified to be lead free
• it had a price under $30

... it wouldn't be a bad engine for the 3-6 year old crowd.  As a pure toy, and semi-disposable - OK; much like Marx as someone else mentioned.  But at $90??? 

[ChiefEagles]

We haven't had any pre-orders for it, nor will we be getting any for inventory.  At first I thought it was just poor artwork till I realized it was the unit from the big box sets and it was for real.

Roger....Can you ask someone at Lionel, if there is a way to make it a Southern California Low Rider. 

Then it would bounce up and down as it went down the tracks.

[magicman710]

How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll Pop?

 

Thats easy, 3...

[fjerome]

" I think it was a production car by Ford Motor Company The Etzel."

Edsel?

[1688torpedo]

Lionel sure did goof up here. They should have made this Alco like the postwar 200 series versions with Two Diecast-Metal Trucks(instead of one plastic & one diecast) Pullmore Motor, Magne Traction & Brass Gears with a sheet-metal frame instead of what is offered here. I know that a 200 series will cost more; however, they will last longer than a can-motored, plastic frame Alco. Take Care.

[mdainsd]

The tooling for that item should be permanently mounted to the director of engineerings desk to serve as a reminder. they could still get some value out of it that way.

[ben10ben]

Let me add my voice to the "what were they thinking" chorus.

Lionel has made some really fine looking small/low end diesels, including some FA models, in the past. This one most certainly does not fall into that category. 

[prewardude]

FWIW, I own the Lionel SF Warbonnet set from 1998. That set had an FA for motive power, and it looks MUCH better than this atrocity. Why the heck Lionel didn't use that chassis on this engine is beyond me. It was cheap but at least it looked decent.

 - Clint 

[Railroader_Sailor_SSN-760]

I remember last fall, during a short underway, I got an e-mail from my wife about seeing Lionel train sets at Target. She told me that she would buy me one of those, "while they are still in stock".

The steam version did not stay on shelves long.

I told her that we did not need anymore of the FastTrack stuff around the house, as it has proved itself worthless with our goal of running Postwar accessories without having to shell out riduclous amounts of money on the accessory tracks to make our layout work, never mind that you cannot run multiple loops with FastTrack on a 4x8 table.

When we pulled back in, there was a sale on the diesel version, so Nicholle took me out to look at it. The cars did not look all that bad, but that is easily the UGLIEST diesel that does not have CSX painted on it that I ever saw.

I personnally thought that the base level sets that Lionel made during the late 70's had better looking sets. At least with those you could understand why the used solid couplers on the base model sets for kids. We have two of the basic level sets from the MPC era, the steam powered Kickapoo and Southern set, all cars were short and were equipped with solid couplers. A reliable set to this day. The little critter diesel was also a very basic, but good engine. No problems noted so far with ours.

Whatever happened to those basic little haulers? No frills, just lots of basic, cheap fun.

This "Urkel Engine" is one that I would not see fit putting into a junk yard scene, even if they sold them at $5 each, you would still get ripped off, I am sure that little of the parts that go into the engine are reasonably usable with any other projects.

I am pretty sure that there are people in the design department at Lionel that should be more involved with Alcoholics Anonymus than with product design. I am doubtful that a sober person could have created and / or approved this atrocity.

.

[anjdevil2]

Hmmm....Lionel High Water Lines....I like it.  Still not buying the diesel though....

[Buckeye Riveter]

... I WON'T BE BUYING IT.  I'm looking to piece a set together for my God-Daughter's son, and I'd sooner get him a 0-8-0 Switcher, than this thing..

Better yet, I won't recommend it for a starter engine for someone just getting in the hobby or for a child this Christmas.   A BEEP is better on my eyes than the LIONEL HIGH WATER DIESEL.  

[anjdevil2]

I also saw this at Target during Christmas and thought, who would buy this UGLY thing....But they were all gone just before Christmas day.  The Steam 4-4-2 was long gone before that.  High waters is right....Just so Jerry and the gang know... I WON'T BE BUYING IT.  I'm looking to piece a set together for my God-Daughter's son, and I'd sooner get him a 0-8-0 Switcher, than this thing..