Lionel..Please explain why I want to buy this piece of.............

[Buckeye Riveter]

I have two BEEPs on order that will look good under the tree with my Lehigh Valley Beep. 

[rtraincollector]

To me its almost worth buying a southern train set I found listed for $109.99  I almost had second thoughts but then remembered its kline by lionel not lionel and the parent company still has a say in the products so its not as cheap looking its the Southern Executive Inspection Train  set.

The main thing I had against the train set from target was the fact I heard the passenger cars didn't even have lights then I heard about the engine so it was a for sure no thanks . I still see the set for sale on ebay from time to time and they want more thqan what target was originally selling them for . I believe they originally sold for like $199.99 and I see them with a starting price of like $249.99 lol

[brianel027]

OK, this thread has gone on for a bit and aside from the guy who bought this loco for his kid, and then me, I'm curious....

Who would truthfully consider buying this kind of locomotive???

Aside from the obvious easy target of criticizing Lionel (and Lionel made it soooo easy with this one), I don't think many of you are looking for this kind of product. Now, if I heard Lionel was making a new Alco or anything that was non-scale, non-Legacy, non-TMCC, conventional and ran on 027 track, I'd be excited. Especially if Lionel woke up to smell the coffee, and put a current modern roadname on it!!! I'd love to see a well made dual motored Alco in both the normal black and the new executive Norfolk Southern schemes!

You guys know I think the K-Line S-2 ranks as the best locomotive in the past 20 years.... that's my kind of locomotive!!! This new Alco from Lionel is absolutely a goof, and I think I'm entitled to say so since this is my kind of loco.

So seriously, aside from the high-riding trucks, how many of you actively buy this kind of low end product for yourselves???

[Buckeye Riveter]

Which Frank?   

[Bob Keller]

Aw comeoneguys. Lets get back to talkin'bout grits.

[jonadel]

The only car I would like to have back was my new '68 Roadrunner .......... t-boned and totaled by a drunk 15 months after I bought it. Only accident I've ever been involved in. BEEP BEEP :)

[anjdevil2]

Jes' stirrin' the pot......

[ChiefEagles]

Another fight brewing!!! 

[anjdevil2]

Thanks DJ, I AGREE WITH YOU 100%!!!

PS: Mopars Rule...

[ChiefEagles]

I have been personally insulted and my feelings are hurt with the action of the CTT Oguageoverlord.  Now Bob Keller, get off the floor from laughing.  Yes, I will admit that I streach the truth just a little bit every now and then. 

[Bob Keller]

Nah, I just got tired of listening to the complaints ... and I think Frank's point had been made, anyway.

Most train makers offer defect-free products. My experience with MTH products (either personal purchases or product reviews) has been pretty good. Not 100%, but in the very high 90s.

Nobody makes a line of entirely defect free products - for every four or five that are spot on, a clunker will get into the mix. A coupler falls off, a brake wheel isn't affixed correctly, or a spray of paint is a bit too think here or there. Everyone (Me too) has had that sick feeling when you open the box and parts tumble out.

I've told this story before - I was in the Lionel factory a few years before it closed and I was shown a "building within a building" which was a recent addition - about a year before I visited, I was told. They had a QC set up where they tested every locomotive in conventional and command modes. At the time, they were testing that Western Pacific F3. It is fuzzy at this point, but I believe they said that they'd discovered something like 70 percent were defective.

Now, I was stunned, shocked, amazed.

But the up side, was that they were discovering the problems BEFORE they were shipped. Realizing you have a QC issue is the first step in fixing it. All they needed to do was to pile them back on the cart, and walk them over to the production line for correction.

Oh, if I was in MTH's pocket, the thread would have died on the first day. Insert smiley face.

[rtraincollector]

Or could it be Bob likes MTH better and he thought we bad mouth them enough ( LOL) (Just kidding Bob) .

[ChiefEagles]

Chief....I told you Bob liked me best!!!!!

I believe it.  Even OGR did not lock it or delete it.  HUMMM.

I really think he saw my comment about starting a new thread when I talk to MTH and hopefully will get results.  I am using your email to go with my "trails" with MTH switches when I talk to MTH.  Both threads were getting out of hand and off the subject about our switch problems.

[Blueberryhill RR]

One thing I like about this thread....It's not locked.

[Buckeye Riveter]

Chief....I told you Bob liked me best!!!!!

[brianel027]

OK, I'm looking at the Lionel catalogs from 1996 and 1997 right in front of me. It's been years, but I did see the Reading Alco apart at a Lionel dealer and remember how cheap and thin the new plastic frame on those locos was. The dealer called it "garbage."

The catalog copy makes note of the new lower profile to match Lionel passenger cars. I never did a comparison between body shells at the time I saw the Reading frame, but it does appear from the catalog photos that no changes were made to the body. The nose on the lowered locos rides much closer to the track rails than previously when a sheet metal frame was used.

Obviously the plastic frame at that time was designed to allow the shell to fit lower. The shell on the sheet metal frames locos rides on top of the frame, but there are downward folds in the sheet metal frame that obscure the space between the truck tops and the locomotive frame.

My educated guess is that Lionel thickened the plastic frame of this loco without really giving too much thought to it. As a result the space between the truck tops and the body is glaringly obvious.

And I am NOT a sophisticated buyer: I will never buy full scale, I will never buy command control of any kind, I have no interest in fragile details, precise rivet counts or accurate digital sounds. This is the sort of product type that makes up my collection.

And as I said before, there are a number of locos out there that look, run and are priced far better than this Alco being discussed. And the BEEP, for all it's problems, is a MUCH better looking loco and if it ran good over 027 switches without shorting out, I'd probably have several of those too.

[nblum]

"Will not be able to find them as Neil will have bought all of them."

 
Nope, I'm focusing on cornering the market for King Tut cars :).

[ChiefEagles]

Didn't they say the same thing about Marx trains. Ugly.

50 years from now, people will be trying to collect the Lionel engine.

Will not be able to find them as Neil will have bought all of them.  

[Blueberryhill RR]

Didn't they say the same thing about Marx trains. Ugly.

50 years from now, people will be trying to collect the Lionel engine.

[Brutus]

My first thought on this was, Oh look, a Lionel Beep.  Cool car pics!

[philo426]

One Tucker Torpedo coming up!  

[J. Daddy]

The Edsel wasn't so bad it just had teething problems(like most new models)and an unfortunate front "Horse-collar "grill.Now they are collectors items. 

At first I thought this was the real car... LOL... then I saw the washing machine dials behind it... My nieghbor bought an Edsel, found it sitting in a barn.... man they are ugly... I don't know, just because something is ugly looking does not mean it will be rare and collectable... I think I will stick with the good looking scale stuff...

[Night Train]

Actually, I think geedub has the right idea...

"I am thinking of converting my entire collection of postwar engines to this highwater model......."

Go ahead and make fun of it, you guys.  Nobody liked the "girls" pastel-colored Lionel set when it came out, either.

Personally, I'm going to run right out and buy as many of these monster truck Alcos as I can find!  Some day they'll be "unique", "rare", "hard-to-find-in-this-condition", "highly collectible", (insert your own favorite eBay exaggeration here), auction items!  I'll make a fortune on them and have the last laugh!

Note: All above statements made with tongue implanted firmly in cheek!  

[nblum]

RMT doesn't make starter sets, just rolling stock and locomotives. Their locomotives are about $70.00, not usually available discounted, which is about what the equally goofy looking Lionel will cost at a typical 20% discount.  Anyhow, we don't know that the final product will look as goofy ;).  RMT makes goofy looking stuff and everyone's drooling, and Lionel does it, and everyone's fuming.

MTH, Atlas, Williams and Weaver have no comparables to speak of.  Williams probably comes closest.

 

A typical nice Brio set retails for about $130 or so. 

[J. Daddy]

I don't know that the cost is much different than other similar toys.  RMT Beeps are in that ball park cost, and they have virtually no tooling or marketing costs, and very low overhead compared with a larger company like Lionel.  Have you priced any Brio trains recently?  So I'd say this little  specimen is right in the ball park cost-wise.  There aren't any Weaver, Atlas or MTH locos in that price range, for example, so it clearly is the economy version not being provided by others, filling a market niche, however ugly it seems to more sophisticated folks here.

yeah but its 89.00 just for the engine! At least with the above don't you get a starter set for this price?!

[vsmith]

The Edsel wasn't so bad it just had teething problems(like most new models)and an unfortunate front "Horse-collar "grill.Now they are collectors items. 

Yeah but I still rather have a Tucker Torpedo

[prewardude]

Sure, it's a cute toy, but the point here is that Lionel has made this same exact engine in the past (in a cheapened version) and it looked much better than this. They should have left well enough alone.

 - Clint 

[philo426]

The Edsel wasn't so bad it just had teething problems(like most new models)and an unfortunate front "Horse-collar "grill.Now they are collectors items. 

[nblum]

I don't know that the cost is much different than other similar toys.  RMT Beeps are in that ball park cost, and they have virtually no tooling or marketing costs, and very low overhead compared with a larger company like Lionel.  Have you priced any Brio trains recently?  So I'd say this little  specimen is right in the ball park cost-wise.  There aren't any Weaver, Atlas or MTH locos in that price range, for example, so it clearly is the economy version not being provided by others, filling a market niche, however ugly it seems to more sophisticated folks here.