Lionel..Please explain why I want to buy this piece of.............

[cnw1995]

Brian is right. Not only did I see it last winter (I liked the packaging which let you see the engine and cars behind cellophane by flipping up the 'lid'), it was able to past the "five-year-old test" - where my youngest easily could re-rail the one they had out of the box. Now he can't easily do that with a smaller-trucked engine or trolley - even Percy.

[sir james I]

I can think of only one Lionel that looks worse, don't remember the year or # thankfully, but it was a GP they made for J C Penny  christmas catalog. As far as I know Pennys stopped  having a Lionel special edition after that.

[Buckeye Riveter]

Dear Lionel,

Please accept my appologies for posting this topic.  I sure didn't know that 670 995 1,447 1,991 people were interested in a HIGH WATER LOCOMOTIVE when I posted this topic.  Now you have a problem due to so many people knowing about this piece of ????????.

In order to make some $$$ on this locomotive, I would suggest you rename it the CRASH and BURN LOCOMOTIVE.  With such a high center of gravity if would be great for the kids to use at full speed heading into a tight curve where it could fly off the track.  If the layout was oreiented correclty, they might be able to launch it through a window pane of their house.  Wow! That would be better than a baseball through the window in my book. 

Incidently, a friend of mine in Colorado asked for some help in buying a train set for the grandson just the other day.  Sorry, but I couldn't put this locmotive on the list, so another sale down the tubes.

Again, my apologies,

[Last Chance]

Occasionally Im astounded by the highs (Or was it the lows?) Companies seek on thier products.

That poor engine ought to be taken back to the shop and rebuilt proper.

[kpolak]

Is Lionel totally to blame for this one?

Was Target involved in the decision making on this design?

Kurt

[geedub]

I am thinking of converting my entire collection of postwar engines to this highwater model.......

[warner brook]

hi buckeye

there`s actually a prototype sitting in the yard in johnsonburgh pa.

[eness76]

I will say that this engine, while ugly and clearly directed at the toy market, does serve a purpose.  I have a 3yr old son, and we play together with my toy trains almost every day, but he knows those are Daddy's trains.  So last christmas I picked one of these "high-water specials" up on the Bay brand new for next to nothing, wrapped it nicely and put it under the tree for him to unwrap as HIS first engine.  He now wants nothing to do with Daddy's steam turbine, or trainmaster, or even F3 set, it is HIS train he wants to run.  It does a nice job too on short light consists around our layout, navigates 022 switches flawlessly and generally provides lots of hours of fun for him, and in turn, me.  It is fast enough that he can accidently dump it too, and the rest of you that started at this when you were a kid know, the lure of dumping it is half the fun.  So I'm going to cut against the grain here and say mission accomplished Lionel, you've made one heck of a toy for my son.  Offering something for everyone seems to be a good business plan in my opinion.  It is good to not always take ourselves so seriously when playing with toy trains. :)

[dbaker48]

Eness,

Thanks for sharing, I was hoping that there was someone out there that would relate your exact situation.  That is tremendous, both you and your son win!  Your not concerned regarding the value, and if something is destroyed.  He has something that is HIS, and will have more lattitude with, and fun with.    Good job.

(I don't think I will buy one to have on my layout for kids use, however.)

[prewardude]

Dear Lionel,

... In order to make some $$$ on this locomotive, I would suggest you rename it the CRASH and BURN LOCOMOTIVE.  With such a high center of gravity if would be great for the kids to use at full speed heading into a tight curve where it could fly off the track.  If the layout was oreiented correclty, they might be able to launch it through a window pane of their house.  Wow! That would be better than a baseball through the window in my book...

[lionelsoni]

Those are not just trucks that are way too high, they are EMD trucks that are way too high!

[jwse30]

It is good to not always take ourselves so seriously when playing with toy trains. :)

Not quite as catchy as "Model Railroading is fun!", but every bit as true.

Thanks for some wisdom,

 

J White

 

[sparks32]

This "High Water Train" was not made by Lionel for sale at Target, this train was made for Disney by Lionel for sale at Target!  Disney plans to remake the Ugly Daushound movie into a kids movie and this "Great Dane" will be the starring role as a Big Train trying to fit in with his smaller brothers and sisters trains, just imagine what happens when he tries to fit where he can't go just because his brothers and sisters trains could!  It could be the funniest train movie you ever saw and maybe Will Ferrell will be the voice of Brutus. " I think I can fit, I think I can fit, Whoops, Oh No, I Couldn't Fit"!    BAD TRAIN! 

                                                                      Sincerely,

                                                                      [e-mail]

[choochin3]

Methinks that the reason that Alco looks like a monster truck is that Lionel changed the frame from metal to plastic.

The metal frame hung down over the top of the truck and closed some of that gap.

 

Carl T.

[brianel027]

Carl, as I mentioned earlier, Lionel made the plastic frame and body modification in 1996. The first Alco's made with this mod were the separate sale Reading ones. That loco did not look like this one. I'd be inclinded to wonder if  a production error was made: that the former Alco shell made to go on the sheet metal frame was used on the plastic frame rather than using the newer modified Alco shell that also was used for a Amtrak and Santa Fe Alco as someone else mentioned.

I also like the story told by enss. But he also mentioned getting the loco very cheap. It's an open question as to whether he would have paid more for the same loco? For normal retail or normal discount pricing, there are far better loco choices.

And as for myself, I don't take myself too seriously. I don't count rivets nor compare models to actual builders drawings, or measure them with scale rulers and then write complaints about it on other forums. And I love modern roads on toy trains like the Alco FA and the S-2 even though those locos were long retired before.

This is just the product area loco I normally buy. the K-Lionel S-2 loco is a far better value than this one though. And I think that S-2 is the best loco made in the past few decades... I'd take the K-Line S-2 over any other scale/electronically loaded loco, both for price and superb reliability. And if Lionel made one of these in Norfolk Southern, I'd buy one and I wouldn't complain that the Norfolk Southern doesn't have any S-2 switchers either.

[sir james I]

Maybe we missed the point, we know it's made wrong and too high, but there is a little boy out there(eness76)who loves his engine. And I'm sure he is not the only one. But Lionel sure could have given this little boy a much better effort.

[nblum]

Maybe it's just a cute toy, not a model train?

 

Or Lionel's attempt to provide satisfaction for those who enjoy expressing indignation over other people's toys? 

[J. Daddy]

Maybe it's just a cute toy, not a model train?

Or Lionel's attempt to provide satisfaction for those who enjoy expressing indignation over other people's toys? 

yeah but cute trains don't cost 89.00!!! Ouch!

[nblum]

I don't know that the cost is much different than other similar toys.  RMT Beeps are in that ball park cost, and they have virtually no tooling or marketing costs, and very low overhead compared with a larger company like Lionel.  Have you priced any Brio trains recently?  So I'd say this little  specimen is right in the ball park cost-wise.  There aren't any Weaver, Atlas or MTH locos in that price range, for example, so it clearly is the economy version not being provided by others, filling a market niche, however ugly it seems to more sophisticated folks here.

[philo426]

The Edsel wasn't so bad it just had teething problems(like most new models)and an unfortunate front "Horse-collar "grill.Now they are collectors items. 

[prewardude]

Sure, it's a cute toy, but the point here is that Lionel has made this same exact engine in the past (in a cheapened version) and it looked much better than this. They should have left well enough alone.

 - Clint 

[vsmith]

The Edsel wasn't so bad it just had teething problems(like most new models)and an unfortunate front "Horse-collar "grill.Now they are collectors items. 

Yeah but I still rather have a Tucker Torpedo

[J. Daddy]

I don't know that the cost is much different than other similar toys.  RMT Beeps are in that ball park cost, and they have virtually no tooling or marketing costs, and very low overhead compared with a larger company like Lionel.  Have you priced any Brio trains recently?  So I'd say this little  specimen is right in the ball park cost-wise.  There aren't any Weaver, Atlas or MTH locos in that price range, for example, so it clearly is the economy version not being provided by others, filling a market niche, however ugly it seems to more sophisticated folks here.

yeah but its 89.00 just for the engine! At least with the above don't you get a starter set for this price?!

[nblum]

RMT doesn't make starter sets, just rolling stock and locomotives. Their locomotives are about $70.00, not usually available discounted, which is about what the equally goofy looking Lionel will cost at a typical 20% discount.  Anyhow, we don't know that the final product will look as goofy ;).  RMT makes goofy looking stuff and everyone's drooling, and Lionel does it, and everyone's fuming.

MTH, Atlas, Williams and Weaver have no comparables to speak of.  Williams probably comes closest.

 

A typical nice Brio set retails for about $130 or so. 

[Night Train]

Actually, I think geedub has the right idea...

"I am thinking of converting my entire collection of postwar engines to this highwater model......."

Go ahead and make fun of it, you guys.  Nobody liked the "girls" pastel-colored Lionel set when it came out, either.

Personally, I'm going to run right out and buy as many of these monster truck Alcos as I can find!  Some day they'll be "unique", "rare", "hard-to-find-in-this-condition", "highly collectible", (insert your own favorite eBay exaggeration here), auction items!  I'll make a fortune on them and have the last laugh!

Note: All above statements made with tongue implanted firmly in cheek!  

[J. Daddy]

The Edsel wasn't so bad it just had teething problems(like most new models)and an unfortunate front "Horse-collar "grill.Now they are collectors items. 

At first I thought this was the real car... LOL... then I saw the washing machine dials behind it... My nieghbor bought an Edsel, found it sitting in a barn.... man they are ugly... I don't know, just because something is ugly looking does not mean it will be rare and collectable... I think I will stick with the good looking scale stuff...

[philo426]

One Tucker Torpedo coming up!  

[Brutus]

My first thought on this was, Oh look, a Lionel Beep.  Cool car pics!

[Blueberryhill RR]

Didn't they say the same thing about Marx trains. Ugly.

50 years from now, people will be trying to collect the Lionel engine.

[ChiefEagles]

Didn't they say the same thing about Marx trains. Ugly.

50 years from now, people will be trying to collect the Lionel engine.

Will not be able to find them as Neil will have bought all of them.