Pre War American Flyer Pictures - An Invitation

[Penny Trains]

Got mine out yesterday for a tune-up and gave her some break-in runs today.  3195 and 120 tender.  Behind them are a Dorfan gondola, an AF 1112 Automobile car, an Ives 63 gravel car and a 4 wheel Ives 67 caboose.  My 300AC is what you see in the distance.

Becky

[overlandflyer]

Penny Trains

...  3195 and 120 tender.  Behind them are a Dorfan gondola, an AF 1112 Automobile car, an Ives 63 gravel car and a 4 wheel Ives 67 caboose.  ....

Becky

truly a mixed freight, i was going to question whether they would all couple gracefully, but i gathered a similar consist to check and sure enough, it worked out just fine.  not an "American" flier, but nice Ju-52.

cheers...gary

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

Penny Trains,

  Welcome to the thread.  Its nice to have you here.  I've read on other threads about your eclectic collection, and I have followed and admired your work on your Disney theme park and other themed layouts. 

 

I agree with gary, you have assembled a nice mixed freight, and the 3195 looks great as your motive power.  I use mine to pull my Iron Horse set.

 

Thanks again for posting.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[Penny Trains]

Thanks guys! 

I installed cardstock armchairs, a galley, partitions and curtains in the Junker to turn it from an air ambulance to a commercial airliner.

I also have a 3207 green gon, 3211 caboose and a blue and yellow boxcar (the number escapes me at the moment).  But the 120 tender tips with all that weight behind the drawbar.  So one of these days I'll have to get something better to pull those cars.  However, all 3 of those cars have latch couplers.    Horror of horrors! 

Becky

[overlandflyer]

i think i've gotten a problem with my photo editing identified and the transformation of Flyer red that was mysteriously turning into fluorescent shades seems to have gotten better.  still in the learning phase with my new camera.   apologize if some of the wheel-red in my previous photos is a little off.

 

so finally, ...clockwork Type XV, one of the least expensive cast iron locomotives with quite a few changes in its production run of close to a decade (1926-1934).  all Type XVs used the small economy motor which was inherited from the end of the Type XIII run, though the No. 35 bell ringer modified the motor with a mechanical clapper arm reaching back to a rear mounted bell.

 

Type XV #9a (1926-29) - this was the first design identifiable by the button-type dummy headlight and no firebox detail.  Type XV #4 locomotives were identical to #9 with the addition of a brake lever.

 

Type XV #9b (1930-32) - around 1930 the casting design was changed to feature a better looking square headlight and also added a firebox extension with rivet detail.  slots beneath the cab windows appeared for a short time, but were never populated with a nameplate as it might imply.  this detail was eventually  left off later models.  again, the identical Type XV #4b casting only has the addition of a brake.  neither casting up to this point had drive rod guides behind the cylinders.

 

Type XV #34a (1930-31) - drive rod guides were added to a 'high end' version of the Type XV in 1930 with straight drive rods having a profile unique to this type. the (a) version also included a brake lever.

 

Schuweiler notes this locomotive as a right side winder.  when the motor was adapted to the Type XV from the previous Type XIII, the key was changed from a left side solid post to a left side screw-in, however, if the key is missing from the newer motor, there is still a small square shaft on the right side.  my guess is that this stub may have been mistaken as the primary key winding location.  in any case, the Type XV shell is too small to contain a standard (larger) Flyer clockwork drive with its right side key.

 

Type XV #34b (1930-31) - pure speculation on my part, but with the covering over of the below-cab-window slots (the red paint isn't filling the holes, the slots are gone in this casting) and the change to an offset drive rod, my feeling is that this is the last version of the #34.  the brake was also eliminated from this version of the motor.

 

Type XV #35 (1932) - a mod to both the shell and clockwork motor accompanied the change to red livery in 1932 with this uncataloged version.  the inclusion of a bell mounted behind the motor required a lengthening  of the casting all done in the cab area.  a second mounting screw is also present on the right side close to the rear of the motor.  ...hang on, we're almost done.

 

Type XV #37 (1933-34) -perhaps it was the pressure from the Hafner 'Century' set in 1933 which started featuring a battery operated headlight that prompted a final change in the Type XV casting.

 

a front view more completely shows the casting change needed to mount a working headlight bracket.  a "Limited" Type VII tender held the battery hidden under a coal pile.  my only example of a #37 is missing the complete front end of the drive rod guides on both sides, though it's hard to tell whether this was the original design or, more likely, one side broke off for the original owner and to keep it symmetrical, the other was was ground down, too.  the edges seem too smooth for an undoctored break.  if anyone has an example with complete rod guides, i'd like to hear about it.

 

cheers...gary

[Nationwidelines]

Caboose Oddity

Although I hate the prospect of a repainted item in my collection, I did purchase the following item recently.

 

The un-trained (pardon the pun) eye could mistake this item as not being original (in fact it was advertised as having altered handrails).  I know the very first one of these rare cabooses I spotted, I thought it had altered hand rails.  However, I was quickly corrected by an old-timer TCA Past President (who has a TCA number that is less than 100).  He asked me not to bid on that first one, as a friend of his was bidding on it.  I kindly let the item go to his friend and began looking out for one of my own.  That must have been 7 or 8 years ago now and this is only the 3rd one I have seen since that first one I saw.  In fact it is only the 5th one I know of.

Additional proof to its originality can be found in the 1928 American Flyer catalog, which shows the following picture.

I believe the catalog artwork for this odd caboose contiued throughout the 1930s for individual sale cars and was shown in sets in the early years.  I know that my 1931 catalog shows the more common variation of the caboose in the set artwork, but still shows the odd hand rails in the single sale caboose artwork.

One might ask "Why is this caboose so rare?"  The obvious answer is it must have been very time consuming to put together.  The hand rail is a one-piece brass wire that runs from side to side on either end of the caboose, wrapping around the two posts at the rear. 

I would guess that these hand rails were much like the 5 window standard gauge caboose, the idea looked good on paper, but was a production nightmare.  Oh, and there are 5 window standard guage cabooses out there.  I have seen one or two.

Here are some more pictures, with the red caboose being a later variation from 1928.  One interesting thing that I noted is that the later 1928 caboose has holes punched in the floor for the two posts on either sides of the end of the cars. 

Another interesting note, and indication of originality, is that the holes for the handrails on the sides of the caboose are different than the holes for the handrails on the later variations of the cabooses.  The later variation handrail cabooses have diamond shaped holes punched out for the brass stamped handrails.  The caboose with the odd hand rails has a circular hole at the bottom, where the brass rod comes out of the side of the car and a square hole at the top (not punched in a diamond shape), where is mounting base similar to that used on electric boxcabs to hold the handrail in place.

Lastly, here is a more common variation of the 1928 caboose.

So, in light of this being only the 5th caboose with hand rails like this that I know of, I am more than happy to get a repainted one.

NWL

[AF53]

Back a few pages on March 11th I showed a photo of a Type XII Locomotive # 2 (or number 12). Another Type XII is below, it's numer 1 (or number 10). Again American Flyer used the same casting with different numbers. Number 1 was cataloged between 1922-24 and number 10 was cataloged between 1925-26. What makes this different from numbers 2 or 12 is this has the stamped-steel wheels and no side rods or brake.

The Type XII has one more number which I'm still hunting for and that's number 11.

Ray

[overlandflyer]

AF53

The Type XII has one more number which I'm still hunting for and that's number 11.

Ray

...you mean this one?

#11 Type XII(c) (ca. 1931-32)

an elusive version of the Type XII, the last casting change included a small firebox w/ rivet detail, slots below the cab windows, modified cylinder wrappers and cast-in handrails.  again as with Type XV, no plate was ever installed in the cab slots.  this example pictured even has some of the original paint filling up one of the slots that i'm carefully leaving alone. the small firebox slightly hid the rear motor mount, but the change to the cylinders & handrails looks to be purely for a cosmetic upgrade.

i will admit i poached this motor off a Type XIV for the photo.  the motor i received along with this casting was a real *cough* beauty with three different types of wheels; only one original.  and though this motor matches the documented (c) variation, installing a motor similar to Ray's example above would be just as valid making this a #11 Type XII(b).

i included the non-key side as an interesting feature of all Type XII castings.  the sides are close to mirror images, but notice that the casting key clearance on the left side is actually quite larger than the right side.  was Flyer originally planning a left-side key motor for this type?

cheers...gary

[AF53]

Gary - Very nice, maybe the next one that comes along I'll have less competition in the bidding process? 

Ray  

[Nationwidelines]

I am not really sure how elusive that variation of the type XII locomotive is.  I counted 4 of them in my train room and I have many more electric sets than windups.  The 4 I have, differ in wheel color, window outline color, and color below the windows.  I have these with 3 various sets in my collection, including a Nation Wide 5.5 inch freight set (yellow window trim version with red wheels), a set with 518-519 AF cars (yellow window with black painted wheels), and a set with 1107/1108 orange Jefferson cars (red stripe below window), with the 4th engine being with a 509 road name tender (red stripe below window).

 

[Nationwidelines]

In reviewing the photos that I posted of these type XII engines, I noted that there are 3 different variations of side rods used on the engines I have.  Possibly the side rod variations are due to varying production dates.

[overlandflyer]

Nationwidelines

I am not really sure how elusive that variation of the type XII locomotive is.  I counted 4 of them in my train room and I have many more electric sets than windups.  The 4 I have, differ in wheel color, window outline color, and color below the windows.  I have these with 3 various sets in my collection, including a Nation Wide 5.5 inch freight set (yellow window trim version with red wheels), a set with 518-519 AF cars (yellow window with black painted wheels), and a set with 1107/1108 orange Jefferson cars (red stripe below window), with the 4th engine being with a 509 road name tender (red stripe below window).

nice group!  well, i was careful not to say rare.  i just tend to see more of the earlier "A.F.10" versions.  Ray, see, it's not me hoarding this one!  ...though if i see a red-stripe painted #11, i would probably consider it.

i always wonder about the motor history in these pieces and for that reason, i really put more effort in the casting and sometimes paint variations.  with one screw, two at most, it doesn't take much effort to change a c/w motor in a cast iron AF loco and for the most part, there are very few that cannot be swapped around.  i've even gotten more than one piece with a Hafner or Ives motor installed and fitting perfectly.  i'm not sure if i've ever tried putting a Marx motor in a Flyer shell, but i wouldn't be surprised if it also fit.

side rods have also been a curiosity to me.  i've seen too many of the straight versions in early 1920's pieces to not believe they aren't original, but a few of the offset examples i have seem to be replacements.  as i mentioned earlier, i believe at one point Flyer was using cast drive rods and either through metal rot or due to their inherent fragility, many of those are missing or have been replaced.  for some reason the 14 spoke wheels era (early 1930's) seem to have the most causalities of this sort including many of the 3195 electric types also made around this time.  i have no information on repro side rods ever being or even currently available.

one thing to watch for in all clockwork motors is a mismatch of drive rod to the proper shell.  the lengths do vary and an improper motor installed will sometimes either bind (rods too long) or result in the rods slipping out or the cylinder guides (too short).

this is a big pet peeve of mine with Hafner early 112 types.

as far as i can tell, the early 112 was the only Hafner loco with extra long drive rods but many are sold with a more common Hafner motor (lower).  even though at full extension the bottom loco looks ok, the tip of the rod is barely contained in the cylinder whereas the proper length rod (upper photo) is still about 3/16" inside. a very hard detail to pickup visually, but extremely important in getting the proper original motor.

apologize for going a little off-topic, but again, Flyer clockworks can also be easily mismatched.

cheers...gary

[Nationwidelines]

overlandflyer

 i believe at one point Flyer was using cast drive rods and either through metal rot or due to their inherent fragility, many of those are missing or have been replaced.  for some reason the 14 spoke wheels era (early 1930's) seem to have the most causalities of this sort including many of the 3195 electric types also made around this time.  i have no information on repro side rods ever being or even currently available.

 

Gary,

I do not believe that Flyer ever used cast side rods on their windup engines.  However, in 1930-1931? Flyer did use cast rods on their O gauge electric steam engines and I believe that all of their standard gauge steam engines had at least some cast rod components.  These rods are prone to metal rot and breakage due to their fragility and engines with original rods tend to attain premiums. 

 

I beleive that the only casting problems Flyer had with their windup engines was related to the wheels experiencing metal rot, on versions that had pot metal wheels. 

 

NWL

[overlandflyer]

well i guess maybe that explains why i haven't been able to recall where i saw that text i thought mentioned cast rods.  perhaps it is in the electric section which i don't reference nearly as much as the clockworks. 

i only mention the rods from my own observations.  it seems like an inordinate amount of later clockwork motors (early 30's) are missing at least one drive rod or both with evidence they used to exist.  though it also may have even been due to the attachment method to the driver which seems to vary a bit.  only the last cast iron clockwork type i have, Type XVII, has threaded studs to secure the rods, all previous types were either riveted or pinned into the driver.

thanks for the info...gary

[overlandflyer]

only a few cast iron, clockwork types left to show and here is the last known, the uncataloged Type XVII along side it's electric version counterpart, the two electric Type VII castings.

clockwork Type XVII, electric Types VII(a) and VII(b)

this comparison photo illustrates the casting changes needed to modify the clockwork shell for the two types of motors installed in the electric versions.  the first change required the right side air tank to be shortened to clear the motor brushes, and the second revision cut into the left side air compressors to make room for the outside gearing of the revised motor.

electric Type VII vs. clockwork Type XVII;  pilot modifications

the larger change in these castings occurred up front.  as with Type XV, a large mod was made in the pilot area to attach a working headlight bracket on the electric types.  and although the inside gear electric motor has stamped drivers with rivet attached drive rods, the outside gear version with cast wheels had a threaded mounting attachment stud.  hard to pick up visually from these pictures, but small hex-head shouldered screws were used to attach the rods.

cheers...gary

[Northwoods Flyer]

Gary,

You have done a great job of providing information on the Cast Iron Wind Up engines.     Thanks for your invaluable contributions to the thread.  Are there more photos of engines to come?  What about the cars that go with the sets?  Can we look forward to seeing those items from you too?

Accessories

4 Rail Whistle Track

In 1936 American Flyer marketed an odd looking 4 rail track that was used to activate the whistle in a number of its engines.  The reason that Flyer came up with this track is because of the patent that Lionel held for a whistle mounted in their tender. There was a law suit over patent infingement and Flyer lost. This track and the whistle it activated were Flyer's answer to finding a way to have a whistle on board their trains. The base of the track is  masonite. The notches in the base are there so that a track clip can be attached to the track. 

 

 

 

 

This 4 rail track comes in straight and curved track and also half curve and half straight.  I have a full box of the straights which have a label identifying them as #601.

 

 

This is not the best photo, but it does show that the track is super-elevated, or banked.

 

 

This one is a bit better.

 

 

In 1936 there were a number of sets that came with the track activated whistle that was housed in a tender or passenger car.  It was included in the Union Pacific Streamliner, the Zephyr, the Hiawatha, and the Hudson.  Each of the sets that included these engines came with what was called the new 40" Diameter High Speed Model Track.

Page 20 of the 1936 catalog describes the new track and shows pictures.  However the track that is shown only has 3 rails, and they are mounted to a roadbed which "makes the train practically noiseless".   I have seen examples of this 3 rail track on eBay. NationWideLines has reminded me that the 3 rail track with the masonite base was only available as a seperate sale item in 1936, as the catalog states that is not included in sets. The 4 rail track is not pictured nor is its function mentioned. 

 

The numbers of the pieces of the New Road-Bed Model Track are:

 

No. 600 Curve Roadbed Track

No. 601 Straight Roadbed Track

No. 622 1/2 Curve Track

No. 621 1/2 Straight Track

 

In the 1937 catalog Flyer introduced a new Remote Control Whistle in a billboard on page 3 of the catalog.  The whistle is no longer housed in the tender or passenger car, but each set has a small notice in a red box that says "Add the Whiste Unit  page 3".  Set descriptions indicate that 40" diameter track is included.  It appears that Flyer tubular track has changed from 30" diameter to the high speed 40" diameter.

 

In the seperate sale section for track the No. 600 and No. 601 Roadbed Track are still available for "Whistle trains of 1936".

 

In the 1938 catalog (which is the first Gilbert American Flyer Catalog) the Roadbed Track is not listed.

Thanks to NationWideLines for help with additional information.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

[overlandflyer]

Northwoods Flyer

Gary,

You have done a great job of providing information on the Cast Iron Wind Up engines.     Thanks for your invaluable contributions to the thread.  Are there more photos of engines to come?  What about the cars that go with the sets?  Can we look forward to seeing those items from you too?

...

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

well i went through the past 6 pages and see there are only a few cast iron types left to show but unfortunately 3-4 of them still elude me in a search for a decent condition piece.  there are still the sheet metal clockwork Types i could contribute when i locate a few strays in storage somewhere.

though i've purchased many groups of Flyer pieces, i'm not that much of a complete boxed set collector and i've had some doubts in the past about auction house lots being actual sets.

here's one that, if it wasn't an actual set, at least matches up closely in years of production...

c/w UP passenger train; ca.1915

 

#2 Type I(f) locomotive w/ 120 Type II(b) tender

 

5½" wood sheath litho; 1108 UP mail/ baggage , 1107 UP coach

soon to graduate into the century collection, this little consist is one of my favorites both with the simulated wood sheathing and the Union Pacific roadname.

still tweaking the lighting system.  it's frustrating balancing well lit pieces without incurring reflections.  i also need to finish a much larger setup to handle more than a few individual pieces.

cheers...gary

[Northwoods Flyer]

Here is one more episode in the saga of my neighbor's train set.  Back on page 61 I posted some information on the two additional boxed cars that were in the same set box as his Set # 1346 Jeffersonian.

 

 

 

 

The first box held a #3046 Log Car

 

The second box holds a #3018 Tank Car.

 

The box is in the same excellent shape

 

 

And it is clearly marked with the identification of the car.  I believe that the G stands for Grey

 

 

The blue American Flyer label is intact on this box, and the 3018 stamped on the label is just barely readable.

 

 

This box also has a price tag from Schuster's in Milwaukee, identifies the car as a 3018, and is priced at $1.15 as is the log car.

 

 

I think this is Variation B - Ca. 1932

 

 

It comes very close to the description that Schuweiler gives of that variation, although he doesn't mention if the car has A.F.L. stamped in both depressions, or A.F.L in one depression and 3018 in the other.

As you can see here A.F.L. is stamped in the depressions at either end.

 

 

He describes the stamping as being gold, but this car has a distinctly green cast to it.  I think it is possible that the gold color has oxidized to some extent and that is why it now appears green.

 

 

It has type VIIIb trucks and is rubber stamped on the bottom with the identifying 3018, and it was checked by Inspector No. 4 before leaving the factory.

 

 

 

The car is unusually heavy.  The previous owner must have added a slug of some kind to the interior to give it some weight and make it track better as it rolls down the rails.

 

The next time I talk with my neighber - and of course return the set - I will ask him about the history of the set and how his relative aquired it.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

overlandflyer:

Gary,

Because of you I'm afraid that I am going to have to stop coming here and reading the entries on this thread.  You have become a very bad influence on me.

 After reading all the entries that you and several of the other folks have made about the Cast Iron windup engines I was tempted beyond endurance.   I gave in and purchased my first clock work Flyer engine.

 I intended to purchase a matching engine for my Prairie State cars and #19 tender at some point.  While checking the listings I came across a red engine that I thought was the correct one.  Instead I came up with this:

 

 

 

After I purchased it I checked it against the photos you posted and discovered that I had purchased a Type XV # 35 from 1932.  So much for impulse purchases.  It looks like I am going to have to start looking for a Type VII "Limited" tender to go with this engine.  I know it is an uncataloged engine that appeared in the Sommers catalog.  Do you have any idea what cars came with it? (Now look what you made me do!    - I'll be looking for more cars!)  I'll have to keep looking for the engine to match my Prairie State set.

 

A few more photos of my engine.

 

 

 

 

It runs great and the ringing bell is a nice touch.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[Nationwidelines]

Here is a 1/2 page newspaper advertisement from the November 19, 1926 Denver Times.  The ad idicates that the Denver Times will give the pictured set away to those who sign up  new subscribers.  Unfortunately, the ad does not mention how many new subscribers are needed to win the set.

 

The set shown, which is reported to be an "Actual Photograph of this fine Electric Train and Transformer", is a 1218 boxcab locomotive, a 1205 Milwaukee Road baggage, a 1206 Seattle - Chicago Milwaukee Road coach, and a 1207 Chicago - American Flyer Lines coach, and transformer. 

 

NWL

[overlandflyer]

re: Type XV, #35

a nice find with the working bell (or working period).  mine is very finicky with the clapper gearing a little wobbly and sometimes stalling the engine completely when it hangs up.  you definitely started with one of the harder to find Type XV's.

cast iron clockworks disappeared from the Flyer catalog completely by 1933, so this was always noted as uncataloged.  i've got to imagine that some stores still liked the small express-type sets and wanted to continue those to perhaps even chew up remaining stock, though a complete overhaul of the Type XV casting seems a bit extreme for something with such a short expected lifetime(?)

anyway, you could probably judge accordingly, but i would think the 518/519 passenger/ club cars would be just about as big as you'd want to not dwarf this loco.  the #515 size cars would look a little better, though probably a little late for those to be accurate.

i have a Type XI in red, your Prairie State loco, but i have a feeling it is an old restoration (not totally convinced, but skeptical).  i have seen a genuine red Type XI and the highlights that you would think should be gold (as they were with every other Flyer CI loco up to this point) are actually silver on that particular locomotive.

as an interesting side note, i recently discovered a collection of G. Sommers & Co. catalogs in Minnesota that i'm having someone research for me.  in a few weeks i may have an answer to your consist question.

cheers...gary

[AF53]

Northwoods - Congrats and welcome to our world! It's nice to have more competition!

Ray

[overlandflyer]

i thought i had noticed a posting of the #437 double-head engine-tender combination set earlier on and sure enough it was posted at the bottom of page 15 in this string.  but i got to thinking about the dummy locomotive as a separate sale item; after all, on the 1939 catalog page it states, "Total cost of above units if bought separately".

although the two locomotives in this set are different, the tenders are both Type IV, but with different couplers.  the front tender coupler matches the curly-q coupler on the dummy pilot, but the rest of the train, including the tender behind the dummy, has automatic link-pin couplers.

now if you wanted to run this set as with a single locomotive, the natural procedure would be to remove the dummy locomotive and tender, but that would leave the front tender with the curly-q coupler mismatched to the link-pin couplers of the consist.

to me it makes more sense that the correct tender for the dummy locomotive should be the Type IV tender with the curly-q coupler.  this would allow the powered Type X locomotive to work alone with the Type IV link-pin coupler tender which, when separated from the dummy loco, would be the correct tender for the powered unit.

i don't save or even go out of my way to collect many boxes, but this is one i thought interesting enough to hang on to.  unfortunately i've stared at the leading characters under different lighting for a while, but still can't decipher the faded text, but clearly "DUMMY LOCO" is the correct contents.

currently i'm in that same "3/4 complete" club, but at least my 4th, a good, powered Type X, should be a little easier than obtaining the dummy loco.

cheers...gary

[Northwoods Flyer]

overlandflyer,

For some reason the Double Header Set is one that has always fascinated me. Nice find on the box. Did your Dummy Loco come in that box? I wish that the stamping on the box was legible so that we could actually figure out what the number for the Dummy Loco is. I wonder if it actually was available for seperate sale.  I bet it would be listed in a dealer's catalog or price list if it was offered for seperate sale.  It sounds like an opportunity to do some research.

There are postings for the Double Header Set at several locations on the thread.  You mention the first post on page 15.  Some additional posts continue on page 16.  I did a post on it for the Christmas Wish List 1939 on page 33.  On pages  53 and 54 there are several entries by MomsFlyer about his mother's train and identifying it as The Double Header Set.

I don't think that you will have any trouble finding that fourth part of the double header set.  The powered Type X locomotive will be much easier to find than the Dummy Type XX.

Somewhere back a number of pages I posted some photos of an unusual Type XX.  It has the curly "Q" sheet metal knuckle coupler, but it is a powered unit.  Schuweiler doesn't list it and I haven't seen any other examples of it.

 

 

 

 

 

I would like to know if anyone else has a variation like this, or if they have it in a set.  The ultimate would be if someone has it in a boxed set that would help in documenting it.  I have a feeling that it was used in an uncataloged set, and perhaps for a department store account.

Thanks for bringing up one of my favorite sets.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[overlandflyer]

Northwoods Flyer

For some reason the Double Header Set is one that has always fascinated me. Nice find on the box. Did your Dummy Loco come in that box? I wish that the stamping on the box was legible so that we could actually figure out what the number for the Dummy Loco is. I wonder if it actually was available for separate sale.  I bet it would be listed in a dealer's catalog or price list if it was offered for separate sale.  It sounds like an opportunity to do some research.

...

=============

yes, it was the box that came with the Type XX dummy i have and when purchased, came with the Type IV, curly-q coupler tender.  a nice find together and why i thought it might be the correct tender for a separate sale dummy loco.

but once again pictures seem to be more effective than real life.  giving the box photos another look (make that a rather long, intense look), i have started to see a "42_" detailed in the user-enhanced picture below...

(added a copy of the original undoctored scan to compare)

two other things worth mentioning...  the "428 " written above the printed text is an old pencil mark, not mine, and there is no listing in the Schuweiler book for a prewar #428.  also looking at the surrounding catalog numbers, #427 (the last number assigned to the Type VI w/ vandy tender combo) and #429 (the first number assigned to the renumbered Type XVI 0-6-0 switcher), both were 1939 models as was the dummy Type XX.

it would be nice to have a more clearly printed example, but it's interesting to see how the mind seems to work to fill in the blanks. ...time to walk down to the ocean and see if i can catch the green flash.  :)

cheers...gary

[overlandflyer]

Northwoods Flyer

I would like to know if anyone else has a variation like this, or if they have it in a set.  The ultimate would be if someone has it in a boxed set that would help in documenting it.  I have a feeling that it was used in an uncataloged set, and perhaps for a department store account.

could it have been as simple as the original owner finding an extra (or salvaged) Type XX electric motor and swapping the original frame out?  why not have a fully functional loco.  i'm sure at the time they may not have thought about their tossing out a future collectible.

i could see my dad doing something like this to "make it better".  frankly, if he was still around to find out what i paid for a motorless engine, i'm sure he would have quickly found another use for the word 'dummy'.

cheers...gary

[overlandflyer]

a page from the 1928 consumer catalog...

and a graphic Flyer unfortunately mislabeled for quite a few years, i am most interested in item 8 (referring to illustration point #9), Black Japan Finish.  this seems to be a corrosion resistant paint also used on some period hand tools and very well suited to cast iron.

just wondering if anyone has already done the legwork (investigation) on this.

original formula?  modern substitute availability?

cheers...gary

[wallyworld]

overlandflyer

a page from the 1928 consumer catalog...

and a graphic Flyer unfortunately mislabeled for quite a few years, i am most interested in item 8 (referring to illustration point #9), Black Japan Finish.  this seems to be a corrosion resistant paint also used on some period hand tools and very well suited to cast iron.

just wondering if anyone has already done the legwork (investigation) on this.

original formula?  modern substitute availability?

cheers...gary

Gary

Coal is one of the primary ingredients.Looks difficult if not impossible to duplicate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_black

 

[Southern Colorado Marx Flyer]

The curly-q coupler on the double-header locomotive is also on a passenger car I have.

I have been picking up AF enamel "wide" passenger cars here and there and now have an assortment of couplers and trucks on these cars.

There seem to be three different types of couplers with O gauge cars.

I am assuming the tab-and-slot couplers came first, then the curly-q, then the link couplers.  I don't know, however, what AF was thinking in this progression (if indeed that is how the progression occurred).  What advantages did the later couplers convey?  I don't think any of them are capable of automatic uncoupling, though I think the curly-q and link couplers could be coupled automatically.  Perhaps the curly-q looked more prototypical than the tab-and-slot?  The link couplers seem to be the most secure - almost needing explosives to separate them.  I can't imagine that any were cheaper to manufacture than the tab-and-slots.

 

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

overlandflyer

Northwoods Flyer:

I would like to know if anyone else has a variation like this, or if they have it in a set.  The ultimate would be if someone has it in a boxed set that would help in documenting it.  I have a feeling that it was used in an uncataloged set, and perhaps for a department store account.

 

could it have been as simple as the original owner finding an extra (or salvaged) Type XX electric motor and swapping the original frame out?  why not have a fully functional loco.  i'm sure at the time they may not have thought about their tossing out a future collectible.

cheers...gary

 

 

Gary,

I think it is a possibility that a swapping could have occured.  The engine looks like it is all original.  I was just wondering if anyone else has seen an engine like this, and if there was some verification that it was original.  There are still a few factory original items that are variations that have come to light.

 

When I match this powered engine up with the dummy from the Double header it makes a nice double header with two Type XX steamers.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer