Pre War American Flyer Pictures - An Invitation

[DocBen]

 Well, the trip was rainy and wet...I eventually found it in the back 40, but it was too sloppy to go back there.  I found these photos on the web...they are all of the one at the IRM, I believe.  I wonder how many there are still out there?  Soooo curious.  It also appears that Lionel did a more accurate model version of this car...but I like my Flyer even so.

 

And my Flyer...

[Northwoods Flyer]

Borden's Milk Car 

Mersenne6 and DocBen,

Thanks for your great posts on the Borden's Milk car prototype.  Mersenne6 I particularly like your "good news bad news" story.  DocBen I think it is great that you are enjoying the trains passed down through your wife's family, my first Bordens car is also a family piece that I remember playing with as a child. I have always liked the Borden's car and I like it even more knowing that the Flyer versions were based on the real thing.

American Flyer cataloged the milk car from 1936 through 1940.  These are the years when trucks and couplers changed most often as the transition from "Chicago Flyer" to "Gilbert Flyer" took place.  The trucks and couplers are the main differences in the three variations that exist. The earliest cars used hook couplers, followed by the knuckle (curley Q) couplers in 1938 and the link and pin type in 1939 and 1940.  American Flyer cataloged the milk car in sets and for seperate sale.  General American-Pfaudler Corporation manufactured the prototype of this streamlined, glass-lined milk car for Borden's.

In 1936 - 1938 the car was numbered 3212 and in 1939 - 1940 it was renumbered 412.

This is the 1936 - #3212-  version that I grew up with

Type VIII trucks and the hook couplers

 

DocBen's car above illustrates the 1938 version with the type XII trucks and curely Q couplers - type X. 

 

This is the 1939-40 version - #412 - with the link and pin coupler and type XII trucks

 

 

 

Coupler Comparison

 

 

 

And here is a closer view of the decal.  Finding these cars with decals in good shape can be very difficult because they tend to become brittle and chip off.

 

 

I'm sure that Elmer and Elsie are very proud.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

 

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

 

[RockIsland52]

Northwoods.....lucky you moved North.  I don't think AF was allowed inside the Chicago city limits. 

Jack

[Northwoods Flyer]

 Steeple Cabs

Update 07/07/2010 

1211

Every so often an item shows up on ebay that sends me back to doing research.  Not long ago an auction for a 1211 Steeple Cab appeared in the listings.  At first I thought it might be a fake or just a poor stamping of a 1217. I did not remember hearing of an electric outline engine with that number so I checked in the Greenberg Guide and sure enough there it was listed.  

It is listed as being an uncataloged version from sometime in the 1920's.  The color description and the other details match the engine and it "feels" right so I think that it might be an original.  The one comment about the engine is that it is the most uncommon of the steeple cab electric variations.   The guide was published in 1997 by Kalmbach, so I am wondering if anyone has any additional information about year of production or what kind of a set it might have been included in, or if it was a seperate sale item.  Doyle's book lists it as being manufactured between 1920-1924 and coming in both dark green and black.

 

Here are some additional photos.

 

 

 

 

 

It is a fairly stripped down model, with no reverse, or headlight.  But for being over 75 years old it still runs pretty well.

 

 

Below I have quoted my entry from page 12 to put most of the information about Steeple Cabs here in one place.  There is another entry by Mersenne6 on page 12 and additional entries on page 22 about steeple cabs.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

Northwoods Flyer

Steeple Cabs (Addendum)

Here are a few additional photos from my collection to illustrate mersenne6's entry

1218

Side stamping

End Stamping

Headlight Placement

1201

This is a scaled down version of the 1218

Side stamping

End stamping

1217  this appeared in 1921

Side Stamping

End stamping

3110

This is the version from 1928-1929

The 3110 had two oval metal plates on each side

My stable of steeple cabs

1201             1217              1218                 3110

Notice the difference in the handrails on the 1218 and the 3110

And the back end of each engine

1270

Here is a recent aquisiton to the collection of Steeple cabs.  The 1270 was cataloged in 1927.

It has the same mounted in the body headlight and a bell. This one is abviously missing the bell, which I will be replacing.

The rear is also rubber stamped with the number.

The 1270 is basically a 1218 without its handrails, which you can see if you compare the two. side by side.

Edit 9/27/2008

We have a new addition to the stable of steeple cabs.  This is a recently arrived 1218 in yellow.  It has definitely been well loved and used. It runs like a well oiled machine and the headlight still operates, it is missing its bell.  I think some cleaning will improve its appearance.  I have more pictures of it ahead on page 17.

 

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richhotrain]

RockIsland52

Northwoods.....lucky you moved North.  I don't think AF was allowed inside the Chicago city limits. 

Jack

Hey, I beg to differ.  Lifelong Chicagoan, still have my AF stuff 60 years later.

Rich

[Northwoods Flyer]

Royal Blue - Addendum  490B  Whistling Baggage Car

Summer is certainly a slow time for trains on the Blueboard Central.  I look forward to September 1 and the return of "Train Season".  I have made one aquisition recently and that was the addition of a 490B Whistling baggage car to go with the Royal Blue set.  Both Mersenne6 and I posted information and pictures about this set back on page 38.

490 Baggage cars were cataloged in the 3/16 O gauge line in 1940 and 1941.  The 490B blue baggage car was only cataloged in 1941 as a part of the Royal Blue set No. 4106.

 

 

 

The doors on one side of the car are permanently closed.

 

 

And on the opposite side one door is open to allow the whistle sound to come out.  It sounds like all other Flyer whistles of this vintage, including the whistling billboard.  If you remember your mother's mix master on high speed you have a good idea of what the whistle sounds like.

 

 

The body type is referred to as a New Haven type, and the built in whistle is DC activated.  It comes with a control button (which I do not have yet) that converts AC to DC to activate the whistle.

 

 

 

The Mersenne6 Special will now be able to announce its arrival at the station in grand style.

 

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[Northwoods Flyer]

Lionel - Flyer  Comparison  Large Freights

Back on pages 30 and 31 of this thread I posted photos comparing the small O gauge freight cars that both Lionel and Flyer had during the pre war era.  I have been digging around in the dark recesses under the train table and finally found the large size O gauge Lionel freight cars that I have in my collection.  I can finally get around to posting some comparison photos of the types of cars that each company was marketing during that period. 

The Lionel cars that I have are the very first cars that I purchased on my own at age 12 back in 1966.  I have told that story elsewhere on the forum but the Reader's Digest version is:  One snowy Saturday while walking home from the local library I stopped in at a hobby shop and overheard a conversation between the owner and a customer.  He had just bought a box of "old trains" from someone and wanted to sell them asap.  I asked to see them and he showed me a big cardboard box with lots of track, some big metal cars and a big black steam engine.  All the trains that we had at home were American Flyer 3 rail metal trains and some S gauge.  I thought these Lionel trains looked pretty neat and wanted them.  I asked how much they were and the shop owner told me $15.  I asked him to hold them for me and sprinted the 6 blocks home to my house and asked my mom and dad to fund the purchase.  I must have been pretty convincing because my dad gave me the money. I grabbed my Flexible Flyer sled and sprinted back to the shop with the money in my pocket.  I handed it over to the shop owner and he helped me lift it onto my sled.  I dragged the train laden sled back home and unloaded the contents of the box on the basement floor.  It turned out that I had a 226 E steam engine and many of the 2800 cars from about 1940.  All of them are only operator quality but they formed the core of my collection for many years, and they were run pretty often on the Carpet Central at Christmas and the 4x8 layout in our basement.

I have added to the 2800 series of cars over the years, but I still don't have a representative example of each type.  As I have said before, my knowledge of Lionel is fairly limited so if I make some glaring errors please feel free to add some information.

Flyer 3206 Machinery Car

Flyer marketed the Machinery Car from 1928 to 1935.

 

This is the earliest version of the machinery car from about 1928. It is missing one brake wheel.

 

 

The 3206 machinery car and the later 3216 log car are identical except that the machinery car never came with a load.  It may be difficult to distinguish the cars during the later years of production because only the earliest cars had brass number tags and there may be no rubber stamped number on the bottom of the later cars.  I'll give some hints on how to identify them when I post the 3216 later.

 

Lionel did market a flat car, the 2811 during this period but I believe that it always came with a wood load, so I will discuss it later when I post the Flyer 3216 lumber car

 

Here are a few more photos of the 3206

 

 

 

So Lionel had no direct competitor to this car, but Lionel also had several styles of car that Flyer could not compete with either.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

Flyer 3207 Sand Car  Lionel 2812 Gondola

 

American Flyer marketed their 9 1/2 inch enameled #3207 gondola, whch they called a sand, car from 1928 to 1938. 

 

This is one of the earlier versions that has two brass tags per side reading "American Flyer Lines" and "3207"

 

 

 

 

 

Roughly during this same time period (1926-1942) Lionel was also producing its large freight cars.  Their version of a gondola was numbered 812 and 2812.

 

My example comes from somewhere in the 1940-1942 era. If you can believe the rubber stamping it was "New 12-41"

 

By this time the information on the cars is rubber stamped rather than a nickle plated plate.

 

 

 

 

Brand loyalty was certainly being encouraged by the difference in couplers at this time.

 

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

Flyer 3208 Box Car and Lionel 2814 Box Car and 2814R Refrigerator Car

American Flyer cataloged their 3208 Box Car from 1928 to 1938. It continued in the line in 1939 and 1940 as the 408 Box Car.  It saw a number of cosmetic changes during its run.  This example is from about 1930.

The brass tags were later replaced by decals.

Lionel cataloged their 814 and 2814 boxcars during this same time. 

In 1938 the new 2814 came with yellow sides and a maroon roof.

It had nickel plated tags.

It also had a sliding door with the same maroon colored door guides.

During this same time Lionel marketed the 2814R, a refrigerator car.

Between 1936 -1940, which is when I think this car might be from, the color of the refrigerator car was ivory with a blue roof and an aluminum frame.

My example has a black roof.  Someone must have painted it after market because the inside of the roof is peacock blue.

The 2814R has nickle plated tags.

And doors that open from the center, unlike the box car and the cattle car.

Both companies were interested in providing play value for their customers.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[RockIsland52]

Northwoods......you probably mentioned this in the past, but where on earth do you store all of your stuff?  You have so many pieces! 

Jack

[Northwoods Flyer]

The Northwoods Flyer Collection

Jack,

I'll be happy to answer your question, but the information has to stay strictly between you and me.             If word gets out that I have more trains stored away, I'll be working a whole lot longer than to age 72  

The Blueboard Central is intended to be a showcase for the trains and some of the vintage accessories, so there are always a few Prewar O gauge trains on the tracks ready to run.  The majority of the Wide Gauge portion of the collection is displayed on the walls.

Including many of the Wide Gauge accessories

The most recent addition to the display area is 72 feet of shelving to hold O (Narrow Gauge) trains.

There is also one smaller area of shelves to display O gauge.

Now, there is a dark underside to the Northwoods Flyer Collection. The layout itself is supported by a variety of shelving units and cabinets; a few of which I can show you.

It doesn't show very well, but back in the darkness are sets that I have assembled in uniform sized shipping boxes that are labled so that I know what the contents are.  I could probably fill another wall full of O gauge trains ... if I could find one.

These are boxed items not on display

Magazines and other pieces of equipment that I have ready to pull out and run.

Lets just call this shot....more

I have been very good at organizing, storing and fitting things into a limited space.

Years from now in retirement, or when we decide to downsize the house,  I hope to have a larger train room with the capability to display all of the trains.  That might mean a seperate building or a garage with a second floor devoted to the collection.

So there you go, after over 25 years of collecting I do have a lot of stuff and its "stuffed" in a lot of different places.

Oh and did I mention that I collected Gilbert S gauge for at least 20 years before I began collecting Wide and Narrow Gauge American Flyer? 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

[AF53]

I've been searching, without much luck, and thought I'd got directly to the best source I know, right here! I just came across a clockwork AF10. I read earlier and found some great info, thanks! But I'm interested buying some of the car(s) that might have followed this loco. I'm also looking into buying the catalog(s) that this was featured in. Thanks for any help you can provide.

Ray  

[mersenne6]

  The American Flyer clockwork engine with the cast lettering "A.F. 10" under the cab window was variously cataloged as a #1, 2, 10, 11, and 12 between 1922 and 1932.  It came in a variety of 4 wheel passenger and freight sets whose consists could vary from 1 to 4 cars.  Any of the #1107 and #1108 passenger cars would be right at home behind the engine as would any of the 4 wheel freight cars from the period. 

[Northwoods Flyer]

AZ53,

Hi Ray,

I thought I would follow up on mersenne6's post about the AF #10 and the consists that it pulled.  I personally don't have any examples of these trains in my collection, but here are some photos of the section of windup  O gauge trains in the 1927 catalog.  As mersenne6 pointed out, the #10 casting went by a variety of numbers and appeared in the catalog for a long time.  Good luck in your hunt.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[mersenne6]

  Here are a couple of sets headed by a #10.  Note the different tenders and also note the difference in cast lettering under the cab window.

 

#328 Tender and Cast "AF 10"under window

 

 

#120 style tender with "AF  " cast under window

 

 

Both of these sets are variations on the "Rainbow" set that Flyer offered for many years.

[AF53]

Thanks guys for all your information! I've already started looking into adding some cars to this clockwork locomotive. Are there any sites you know of that I can buy repro's of some 1920's catalogs beside Ebay?

[strainst]

WOW!!  What a wonderful site!  I came across this site about a month ago and wanted to jump right in and start posting.  But what to write??  After giving it some thought, I decided to read all of 40 pages first before I started posting.  Not only are the posting very informative, the accompanying photos make this the best site(forum) for Pre-War American Flyer.

A little about myself.  I did not grow up with American Flyer trains.  My first and only train set I had as a kid was a Sears, Roebuck and Co Lionel HO set my father and I received as a combination gift one Christmas.  I still have the set.  I got back into trains in the early 90's when at an auction, I was the lucky bidder for a box full of trains.  At the same time I had a son who was just a toddler.  We have been into trains ever since. 

The box of trains turned out to be Post-War Lionel trains.  I started looking for trains at yard sales, flea markets and at other auctions.  I got a couple of reference books and started studying about the trains I was finding.  In one group of trains I found at a flea market, I came across some items that were not Post-War Lionel.   By this time I had found and joined a local train club, so I took these items to a meeting and asked who had made them.  They turned out to be Pre-War American Flyer.  They were neat, but they were not Lionel so I sold them.  By the late 90's, two thing happened; eBay and York.

I went to the TCA York train show for the first time in the late 90's.  I had never seen so many trains in one place in my whole life.  You saw things there that I thought you would see only in books or museums.  I had been collecting trains for six to seven years and my taste in trains was changing by this time.  The more I learned about trains, the more I was attracted to the trains produced in the pre-war era.   In one of the halls, I was behind a guy looking for wheels for a locomotive he was repairing for a customer of his.  The locomotive had been painted in white, which is why I remember it because it had such a neat look to it.  You could tell it had been well loved because the paint was worn off the edges and on the tops of the rivet details.  I later learned the locomotive was a 3307 American Flyer.  I left the show with a Lionel 1835 Locomotive and Tender.

About the same time, I came across a site on the internet.  It was called eBay. At that time they had a listing category called "Tin Plate."  I started looking to see what people were selling in this category.  There was Lionel, of course, but there was also American Flyer, Ives, and other makes made in the America and over in Europe.  Now you could go shopping any time you wanted.  You did not have to wait for a train show.  So I sold most of my Post War Lionel and started looking for Pre-War American Flyer and have not stopped looking; the core of my collection in now Pre-War American Flyer.  Now I will have to see if I can up load some pictures and post them later this week or next weekend.  Strainst

[Northwoods Flyer]

Strainst,

to the forum and to this thread. I enjoyed reading your post and its good to have you join us. Thanks for the kind words and for taking the time to read all of the pages of the thread.  You are certainly welcome to jump in and post a photo or a question or a comment at any time - reading the entire thread is not a prerequisite. 

I discovered eBay about 10 years ago now and as my wife can tell you, the rest is history.  The flow into our house of cardboard boxes, styrofoam worms, and bubble wrap was pretty constant for a while. 

 Most of the O gauge portion of the Northwoods Flyer collection has been purchased through eBay - except for the core of the O gauge collection which is the equipment that I inherited from my family.  The Wide Gauge portion was purchased back in the old days when you had to send away for a list with a SASE, and that is pretty much how the S gauge portion was accumulated too. I have not made the pilgrimage to York yet, but it is on my list of things to do "one of these days".  I'm just worried what I might come home with once I make it there.  I have attended a number of train shows here in Wisconsin, but the amount of Pre War trains has always been minimal.

I enjoyed reading your journey into Pre War American Flyer trains.  I think that a number of folks reading your story can relate. Its great to know that you and your dad shared the enjoyment of trains, and that you are sharing that enjoyment with your son now too.  We are also a 3 generation train family. 

I look forward to seeing your postings.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[Northwoods Flyer]

Flyer 3210 Tank Car and Lionel 2815 Tanker

In gathering the photos for this comparison project I discovered that the Northwoods Flyer Collection has a few holes in it. Most of the photos in this entry were borrowed from Mersenne6.  Thank You for your help and collaboration once again.

The origins of American Flyer's 3210 enameled tank car can be found in the earlier 3010 lithographed tank car.  It was produced from 1925-1927.

Lionel introduced their large freight cars in 1926 with the 800 series cars with latch couplers.  So the two cars in the next photo are from appoximately the same time.

Mersenne6's example of the 815 tanker has the early latch coupler and copper journals which puts it somewhere around 1930 to 1933.  (I believe that the color of the tanker changed to aluminum in 1934.) The automatic box couplers came out in 1938 and by that time the tanker was bearing the number 2815. (The 815 will have to do as a stand in for the 2815 for now.)

Flyer introduced the 3210 enameled tank car in 1928 and it appeared in the line until 1938.  During that time it had numerous incarnations. The Greenberg guide lists 15 different variations of the 3210 and I have several that don't appear in the guide.  You have to love the opportunity to collect variations that Flyer provides.

This is a photo of the blue version (B) of the tank car that was offered for seperate sale in 1928-1929.  For that reason it can be a bit more difficult to find.

I have photos of other versions of the tank car posted back on pages 8 and 10 of this thread.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[strainst]

Great post on the tank cars.  Now lets see if I can post a picture or two.  Below is the most recent addition to the collection.

This is a Type XI, AF No. 16 Locomotive with a Type II No. 120 tender.  This is the first year version which was cataloged in 1922 as an American Flyer No. 15 locomotive.  In the area below the cab windows; there is a raised panel with AF 16 inside the boarders.  After this year, American Flyer did away with the panel, changed the style of the lettering and added periods after the letters, for example A.F. 16.  From 1923 to 1926, American Flyer cataloged this locomotive as an AF No. 16 locomotive and then later as an AF No. 28 locomotive, but there was no difference between the two.  Both of these locomotives had the A.F. 16 below the cab windows.  In 1929, American Flyer again released the same locomotive, cataloged as a No. 28, but this time the locomotive was painted red and below the cab windows, there was just A.F., but no numbers.  American Flyer continued until 1932 with this version.  There is a reference in Alan Schuweiler reference book "American Flyer Prewar O Gauge" to a second version of this locomotive made out of cast-aluminum instead of cast-iron in 1929.  The black painted locomotives were highlighted in gold, orange or yellow.  The red painted locomotives were highlighted in silver.  I do have some of the other versions in my collection, but they are boxed up.  Over the winter I will be remodeling the train room and because of the work that will be going on, I thought it best to pack the collection up so it will not be in the way; well most of it anyway.  I have kept some trains out as inspiration to remind me what will lie at the end of this adventure.  Below is another picture of the locomotive.  Enjoy!

 

 

 

strainst

[Northwoods Flyer]

strainst,

Thanks for the photos of your No. 16 engine.  It looks like is in great shape.  I have very little experience with Flyer's windup engines, except for the red one that I sold years ago when I was only going to collect Gilbert S-gauge.  I guess we all have stories of the things we regret selling or "the one that got away".  I wish I had that red engine now, as my Prairie State set has no engine to pull it across the plywood prairie.

It sounds like you have an exciting project ahead of you.  Just how much of a remodel will your train room be getting?  I hope that you have kept out enough examples from your collection to post here for the duration of the remodel.  I look forward to seeing more.

Flyer 3210 Tank Car and Lionel 2815 Tanker -Addendum

The biblical advice to "Seek and ye shall find."  even has its applications in the world of train collecting.  Shortly after I posted the entry on the tank cars I came across a nice (and affordable) 2815 on ebay.  It just arrived so I thought I would post a photo of it, along with another variation of the 3210. 

This version of the 3210 is from somewhere in the1933-1938 time frame.  The type VIII trucks were used on the enamled freight cars during those years

This example of the 2815 is from 1938 or later.  Lionel tankers changed to the aluminum color in 1934 and the box couplers were introduced in 1938.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[Northwoods Flyer]

American Flyer 3211 Caboose

 and Lionel 2817  Caboose

The caboose always signals the end of a train, but in this case it does not indicate that we are at the end of the line for large freight cars for either Flyer or Lionel.  It just so happens that in the sequential numbering of Flyer 9 1/2" enameled freight cars the 3211 caboose comes next.

Flyer cataloged the 3211 from 1928 to 1938. It appeared in 1939 as the 411.  The 9 1/2" cabooses (cabeese?) are all similar to each other, with the usual changes to trucks and couplers and brass plates being replaced by decals. This version of the 3211 is probably from the  1930 to 1932 era based on the trucks and the darker red cupola. (I think this is Greenberg's version E).

Lionel cataloged their large caboose from 1926 to 1942 with a number of changes to color and couplers and methods of identification.  This 2817 is a rubber stamped version and it is probably from the 1940 - 1942 time frame.

Rubber stamping

The tail end of the tail end of a train.

I think that both examples of the caboose are great looking.  I'd like to have some of the other versions of Lionel's caboose from this era, particularly the red and peacock version or the one that is all peacock.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

American Flyer 3212 Borden's Milk Car

Following the American Flyer sequence of car numbers in the narrow gauge large freight cars we come to the 3212 Borden's Milk Car.  The Milk Car was cataloged in 1938 and 1939 as the 3212, and again in 1940 and 1941 as the 412.  During this era Lionel had no comperable car, although much later in their history they do have a Borden's Milk Car.  Back on pages 38 and 39 you will find some excellent photos of the these cars and some photos of the prototype posted by Mersenne6 and DocBen.

The major difference over the years that it was cataloged are the type of truck and the type of coupler.  It was supplied with 3 different coupler types during its history.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[Northwoods Flyer]

Flyer 3213 Searchlight Car and Lionel 2820 Floodlight Car

Flyer cataloged their 3213 Searchlight car in 1938. It appeared again in the catalog in 1939 as the 415 Floodlight car.  The only real difference is the coupler. The 3213 has the sheet metal knuckle coupler and the 415 has the link and pin couplers.

  

  

    

Lionel produced the 2815 Floodlight car during this same era. This version is most likely from the years 1938-1939 when the body color was green, the automatic couplers were available and the 2 searchlights were nickel plated.

      

     

   

 

    

   

It must have been great to be a kid during these years.  I can imagine getting the catalogs from both companies and trying to decide which brand deserved your loyalty. 

 

 Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

 Northwoods Flyer

[SkyArcher]

Northwoods Flyer,  Thanks for generating this thread.  I have a 1218 loco with 1205-1207 cars and a Royal Blue freight consist that you have helped me find information on.  Do you by chance have information on the different transformers used on the various prewar layouts?

[Northwoods Flyer]

Hi SkyArcher,

I'm glad that you have been able to find the information that you have been looking for. Thanks for the kind words. 

I don't know a great deal about transformers.  What do you want to know about them?  If you post your specific questions I am sure that someone on the forum might know the answer. Lionelsoni is a great resource.  You may want to post your questions to the forum as a seperate thread.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[SkyArcher]

Thanks for your help.  There are a lot of AF transformers out there and I don't which ones go with the Royal Blue and 1218 Steeple cab.  I tried to buy an AF transformer from a train shop and  they said that AF transformers are an electrical hazard and they don't recommend that I buy it.

[Northwoods Flyer]

SkyArcher,

All of my transformers are American Flyer from the Gilbert era.  I have never had any problem with any of them.  I have a few from the pre-war era as well, and the only issue that I have ever had is that the cords need to be replaced when the insulation becomes brittle.  Most of the time the older, smaller transformers are pretty low priced; which may be why the train shop was not interested in selling you an old transformer.  I have several 8B transformers - rated at 100 watts.  They have a fixed voltage (15 v) and a variable voltage (7-15v) post.  I use them to test engines, run accessories, and power a loop of track.  Most of them have a short out (help me here on nomenclature lionelsoni) protector and a reset button and nifty lights on the top to tell you when the current is flowing and when you have a short.  Just remember the protection is only for the transformer, not your engines or other equipment. 

There are plenty of other vintage transformers by Flyer and Lionel out there, and there are brand spanking new transformers as well, it all depends on what your needs are.  I wouldn't be afraid of an vintage transformer as long as you use common sense.

I am sure that others have their favorites among the vintage transformers available

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

[Northwoods Flyer]

Flyer 3216 Log Car and Lionel 2811 Flat Car

Operating Flat Car 3811

Once again I have discovered a gap in the Northwoods Flyer Collection. I am indebted to Mersenne6 for several of the photos to help with the comparison.

Flyer's 3216 log car has its roots in the 3006 American Flyer R.R. log car that was available from 1924-1927.

   

 

 Lionel's equivalent car during the same time period was the 811 flat car which was introduced in 1926.

 

 

 

In 1930 Flyer took their 3206 Machinery Car and added a lumber load to it and renumbered it as the 3216. Lionel added automatic couplers to their flat cars in 1938.  Unfortunately I don't have an example of the 2811, but it looks exactly like the 811, except that it is aluminum in color.

 

This is one version of the 3216.  It is listed in the Greenberg guide as version (D). It is from approximately 1930. There are other versions of the 3216 shown back on page 24.

 

 

 

 

During this same time Lionel marketed an operating flat car numbered 3811.  I am guessing that it was introduced about 1939.

 

 

Mine is in tough shape; missing the load, one brakewheel, and one stake.  Amazingly, it still operates.

 

 

 

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

[Northwoods Flyer]

Flyer 3219 Dump Car and  Lionel 2816 Hopper

  

American Flyer produced the 3219 Dump Car from 1934 through 1938. It was renumbered to 419 in 1939. 

 

It has decals on both ends

 

 

And it is rubber stamped with the number on the bottom.

 

Lionel's 2816 Hopper car was introduced in 1927 and ran through 1942.  It had several different variations.  The most common color is red and in 1938 when the automatic couplers were introduced it was red.

 

 

It came with nickle tags.

 

 

I also have a variation from 1940 through 1942.

 

 

 

The rubber stampings

 

 

Both of the cars have operating parts.

 

The 3219 has sides that drop.

 

 

The 2816 has doors on the bottom of the hopper that open.

 

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

Greg