Pre War American Flyer Pictures - An Invitation

[lionelnut]

Yes Jim and Greg those are the lights.  Greg I sent you the email.  Thanks

 Harold

[Sturgeon-Phish]

Both Colber and American Flyer made the lamps.  If I get a chance I will do some digging to see what markings are present.

Jim

[Northwoods Flyer]

Lionelnut sent several pictures of his layout and the lamp posts that have been the topic of discussion.  I am posting them here.

 

 

It looks like your lamp posts are the same ones that Sturgeon-Phish has on his layout.

 

The pictures also include his 755 American Flyer Talking Station.  I have taken the liberty of posting a link to Youtube that allows you to hear the message that the station plays.  It is a video posted by our own green97probe, from this forum, of his Christmas layout.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2V1VMZt64g

 

Thanks lionelnut and green97probe.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[lionelnut]

Northwoods Flyer,

 Thanks for posting the pictures....Listened to the talking train station and it just like mine, I have 2 records with 4 different recordings but that is the one I like best....

 Lionelnut

[x2000]

Hi,

I have been enjoying this thread from the beginning, hoping to see something about the 3-rail AF equipment from the early 40s.  Maybe the trains from 41-45 are not exactly pre-war, but most if not all of the stuff sold appears to have been manufactured before production seems to have stopped during the war. At least the catalogs stopped. 

In any case my very first train was an AF 3-rail Crusader set listed in the 1941 catalog for $10.50. I got it as new in 1946.  It featured an Atlantic loco (565) without smoke or choo-choo, but with a headlight. The tender was metal, as were the three freight cars.  As I remember it, the train was trouble free except for the little plug between the engine and tender which was not a challenge at all for a little kid to disable and then wonder why the train didn't run!  It fit in well with the Lionel equipment I grew up with.

I would like to find out if this then fairly common set is still obtainable at a reasonable price.  Thanks for your help.

X2000

[Northwoods Flyer]

Greetings X2000,

Welcome to the forum.

The only reason that there is not a larger amount of information about 3/16 O gauge Flyer in the thread is because I do not have a great amount of it in my collection to photograph and post.  There is a smattering of information scattered throughout the thread but not many folks have posted pictures of items in their collections.  It would be great if they did. 

I originally started the thread with a focus on Prewar Wide and Narrow Gauge Flyer items, but from time to time other items and eras have appeared.  I welcome any pictures and information about American Flyer and especially like the items from the prewar era.

Here is a copy of page 11 from the 1941 catalog showing your Crusader Freight set.

 

Most of the items are relatively common and quite a few have been showing up on ebay lately.  The 565 Atlantic will of course be the most expensive item.  Doyle lists values for the 565 from $75 to $225 depending on condition.  It was cataloged in 1941 and again in 1945-1946.  I have a suspicion that all of the items that show up in the post war catalogs were actually produced in the prewar era and held over until toys were selling again.

 

At the moment there is a complete Crusader freight set available on ebay for a "Buy it Now" price of $250.00.  It includes the engine and tender the three cars, two switches and enough track to make a large outer oval and a connected smaller inner oval.  I don't remember if there is a transformer with it.  That does not seem like an outrageous price to me.

 

Do you still have any of the parts of your original set?

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[x2000]

Alas, all of it went wshen I, like many others, "converted" to HO as a teen-ager.  Evventually, I saw the light and went back to O gauge, but the Flyer was long gone.

X2000

[mersenne6]

  3/16 Flyer

   A.C. Gilbert purchased American Flyer in 1938.  In 1939 he introduced "Tru-Model" American Flyer O gauge trains to the lineup. What wasn't mentioned anywhere in the catalog was the fact that these new models were scaled 3/16" to the foot. It is worth noting that Gilbert called these trains "Tru-Model" and not S gauge.  In point of fact, CD Models in Cleveland, Ohio had introduced 3/16" scale models to the model train world in the pages of Model Railroader in 1937. Before introducing the trains they had taken the time to get NMRA standards for the scale which they and NMRA called "CD" gauge.

  According to an interview with Maurice Romer published in the September 1981 TTOS bulletin it was one of Gilberts' sales managers - Phil Connell - who initially pushed the idea of a scale size of 3/16", however, Mr. Romer did admit there were a number of stories around concerning the 3/16" size.  In the same article he did comment that Louis Hertz thought the gage should have been identified as H-1 for half of I gauge.  As for "S" Mr. Romer said, " Somebody told me that the advertising end of the company started calling it "S" gauge in reference to scale since it was indeed a scale gauge."

 

 

Cover 1939 Catalog

 

  While the first few pages of the 1939 catalog spent a lot of ink talking about "Tru-Scale" trains only eight pages of the 48 page catalog actually featured them. The offerings for 1939 were two engines - the Hudson, and the UP 4-8-4 Northern, seven types of die-cast freight cars and two types of die-cast passenger cars (coach and combine).  The engines and the cars were offered ready to run and also in kit form.

 

 

 

 

 

Catalog cuts of diecast cars

 

 

 

  Also featured in 1939 were the new drop link couplers which were offered across the entire 1939 lineup.

 

4-6-4 Hudson

 

  The prototype was the NYC J3A with a 12 wheel tender.  In 1939 it was offered in two sets (freight and passenger).

 

 

   The 1939-1942 RDC/DRC locomotives that came with die-cast cars had grooves in the rear set of drivers to hold rubber traction tires (and here you thought this was a 1970's MPC thing) to aid in pulling the heavy die-cast cars.

 

  There are Hudson variations but most of the variation is either subtle like the traction tires or internal.  External variation - traction tires, separate cast ornamental steam generator vs. generator cast as in integral part of the boiler casting.

 

1939

 

  Motor armature mounted with brush holders protruding out right side of locomotive below catwalk. Spur gear on the left side. All left side drivers geared. Loco has Remote Directional Control (RDC), lucite headlight, removable boiler front, separate ornamental generator, #5640 rubber stamped below cab window and "New York Central" rubber stamped on tender side (kit had decals for both number and lettering). Production number for engine/tender combination is 564 (Kit is K-564)

 

1940

 

  Five types:

 

  1. Spur drive - conventional remote control - #5640 rubber stamped below cab window.

 

  2. Worm gear drive - powered rear axle only - other wheels turned by being connected to the drive set via the connecting rod - regular remote control - #570 rubber stamped under cab windows.

 

  3. Worm drive - RDC control - $5640 rubber stamped under cab windows.

 

  4. Identical to #3 but was the kit and came with decal lettering.

 

  5. Worm gear drive - RDC control - #531 rubber stamped under cab windows - engine came with die-cast cars.

 

 

 

#531 Hudson

 

 

  The 1940 engines had the generator as part of the engine boiler casting.

 

1941-1942

 

  Four versions of the Hudson were made during this period. Two had sequence reversing and two had DRC, one came in kit form. The NYC tender was listed as either #563 or #563C, the "C" was the designation for the "chugger" unit. In the sets with sheet metal cars the engine was #570 and with the die-cast it was #531.  The kit engine was provided with decals - #5640.

[DocBen]

 Excellent info!!!  I love it.  Reference my light issue on the 1938 O-gauge Flyer, they were both just loose.  They shine very bright now all the time.  The caboose light is actually TOO bright.  I wonder if the paint faded on the bulb after 73 years.

 

Anyone know how to get ahold of Eric Trickel?  I've sent him several emails over the past few months, and haven't gotten any response.  Is there an online catalog I can look at?  I really want to purchase new trucks for the Flyer.

 

Thanks!!

[mersenne6]

 

  The 4-8-4 Union Pacific Northern

    This was the second locomotive introduced in 1939 . With its 12 wheel tender the locomotive-tender combination measured 21.5 inches. The engine was offered ready to run and in kit form and, like the Hudson, was offered with either a die-cast freight or passenger consist.

 

   1939

 

  Both ready-to-run and kit were numbered 806 with the kit form having the numbers supplied as decals. The engine presumably had enough weight to permit pulling die-cast passenger cars because, unlike the Hudson it was not offered with rubber traction tires. Both kit and assembled had a spur gear motor with brushes on the side. The ornamental generator was a separate part as were the number boards and the bell on the top of the removable boiler front. The tender is rubber stamped "Union Pacific" and the method of control is RDC.  The engine-tender combination was identified as 568 with the kit version identified as K-568.

 

 1940

 

  Five versions offered:

 

  1. Same as 1939 - spur gear but without RDC. Engine-tender combination identified as #572 but same number, 806, rubber stamped below engine cab windows.

 

  2. Worm gear motor, conventional control, and the number 571 rubber stamped under cab window.

 

  3. Same as 2 except had RDC and was identified in the catalog as engine-tender combination 534.

 

  4. Same as #3 but rubber stamped 533 under cab window.

 

  5. Kit version - same as #4 and #4 but with #806 decals for mounting under cab window. Kit identified as K-534.

 

  1941-1942

 

  There were 4 versions offered during this time. Two versions had DRC and two did not, two had the tender with the chugger mechanism and two did not.  Three were assembled and one was a kit. All of the these engines had worm gear drives. The kit version had the same #806 decals as in earlier years.

 

  1. Engine pulling sheet metal cars were rubber stamped #572 under cab window.

 

  2. Engines pulling die-cast were rubber stamped #534 and had this numbe on the number boards.

 

  3. As with the Hudson, the chugger tenders were identified with a "C" the catalog number for the tender being 567.

 

 

3/16 for 1940

 

  The year 1940 saw a major expansion in the 3/16" line. Gilbert introduced 4 new engines to the lineup and continued to offer the engines and cars first introduced in 1939.

 

 

 

 

 

Catalog Cover 1940

 

 

  Pennsylvania and B&O 4-6-2 Pacific

 

   The Pacific wheel arrangement in 3/16" was first offered in 1940 configured either as a Pennsylvania K-5 or a B&O Royal Blue art deco Torpedo.

 

  1940

 

   Pennsylvania K-5

 

 

    The kit version was identified as K-559.  The kit engine was provided with decals #559 and the kit tender with decals "Pennsylvania". Both kit and assembled had worm gear drives. The assembled version was rubber stamped "559" under the cab window and the tender was rubber stamped "Pennsylvania".  The tender trucks are identical to the sheet metal freight car trucks.  There were two sets with sheet metal cars (one freight and one passenger) offered with the K-5 in the 1940 catalog. The engine has sequence remote control with a control lever on the top of the boiler. The K-5 for these sets were rubber stamped "561". In addition, K-5's were sold separately and they have been found with either "561" or "556" rubber stamped below the windows.

 

  1941-1942

 

  The kit version was offered again and identified as K-559.  The assembled K-5 is rubber stamped 561 in the sheet metal sets. The tender, which was identified with the catalog number 558 was offered plain or with a chugger.  The ID for the chugger tender is 558C.  The K-5 with the die-cast cars was rubber stamped 559.  The only difference between the 561 and the 559 is that the 559 has rubber traction tires and it has DRC so there is no reversing lever on the top of the boiler.

 

 

#559 from 1941-42 with cugger tender

 

  The Chugger Tender

 

   Chugger tenders or "Choo-Choo" tenders as they were listed in the catalog, have a chugger mechanism inside the tender body.  The sheet metal bottom of the tender has two long slots to permit the sound to escape and an on-off lever for the mechanism itself.

 

 

Underside of K-5 Chugger Tender #558C

 

1945

 

  The K-5 reappeared in two sets #4109 - freight, and #4110 - passenger.

 

  Set #4109 - #561 K-5, #558 tender, #478 boxcar (replaced #488 prewar), #480 tank, #476 gondola, #484 caboose - unlighted.

 

  Set #4110 - #561 K-5, #558 tender, #494R Baggage - (black AFL decals and silver numbers or rubbers stamped AFL in silver), #494R Coach (black AFL decals and silver numbers), #494R Coach (black AFL decals and silver numbers) - note "R" is identifier for color red. Coaches were unlighted. Sets generally had black track although they have been found with a mix of black and tinplated track.

 

 

B&O Torpedo

 

  1940 -1942

 

  Locomotive is die-cast, tender is stamped sheet metal. Engine was sold in a sheet metal freight and a sheet metal passenger set.  In all years of production the engine was numbered 556 below the cab and was marked "The Royal Blue" along the running boards.  The tender was marked "American Flyer Lines" and the marking can be either decals or rubber stamping.  The chassis is the same as the K-5 but the valve gear and rods are different. In 1941-42 the tender, as with the other engines in the catalog, was offered either with or without the chugger mechanism.  The tender number was 555.

 

 

 

 

 

B&O Royal Blue

 

Pennsylvania, B&O, and Reading 4-4-2 Atlantic

 

  Pennsylvania #545

 

   Sort of a poor man's Pennsy E6.  Made in 1940 only. Used the #559 K-5 shell. Engine provided with carry over sheet metal tender from the old American Flyer line. Engine rubber stamped #545 under the cab window, tender rubber stamped "American Flyer Lines". All rubber stamping in silver.

 

 

 

 

#545 from 1940

 

 

B&O #553

 

  Made in 1940 only. Same boiler shell as the B&O Royal Blue. Painted in "glistening gun metalescent enamel" - essentially gunmetal gray.  Uses the same chassis as #545. Engine and tender markings are either rubber stamped or decal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Set #4004 With #553 engine

 

 

Reading #565

 

  Unlike the other two Atlantics this engine is an accurate copy of the real Reading Atlantic.  Tender is sheet metal and comes with or without the chugger mechanism. Engine has worm gear drive and remote control.  Tender was either rubber stamped or decaled "American Flyer Lines".  Unlike the other 3/16" engines the third rail current collectors are under the tender and the electricity reaches the engine motor through a plug in jack between engine and tender.

 

 

#565

 

  1945

 

  Connection between tender and locomotive became a clip.  Engine offered in a single set.

 

   Set #4103 - contents - #565 Atlantic, #564 Tender (AFL decaled), #482 Log car (red or black), #478 Boxcar, #484 Caboose.

 

  1946

 

   Some tenders no longer have journal boxes on the trucks.  Tender may be attached to locomotive with screws.

 

  Set #4103 - contents - #565 Atlantic and Tender - tender marked "Reading". Locomotive and tender shipped in a single box with markings "565A Atl. Loco and Tender", #478 Boxcar, #476 Gondola, #484 Caboose.

 

  Note on Postwar Sets

 

  As noted above three sets were offered in 1945 and one in 1946. The only know reference to these sets is in Newsweek, November 19, 1945 pp.36.

 

  In a letter to the service departments dated February 8, 1947 Service Manager J.M. Denison wrote:

 

  "We have discontinued the manufacture of O gauge trains. The switches and crossovers will be available in the near future and we now have track in stock. It is possible that we will have in about six months some assortment of used or rebuild O gauge cars and other accessories. If you should decide to convert to the new two rail 3/16" scale trains (note he did not say S scale), take the matter up with us in April and by that time we will allow you a substantial credit to apply against a new one."

 

 

3/16 for 1941-42

 

   The odd Atlantics were dropped and the NKP switcher was introduced.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Catalog Cover 1942

 

 Nickel Plate 0-8-0 Switcher

 

 1941-42

 

 

    Offered in two sets with sheet metal cars. Catalog indicated the tender came either with or without a "Ding-Dong" bell ringing tender and was rubber stamped "Nickel Plate Road".  The engine was also offered in a set with die-cast cars and with DRC control. While offered in two versions, the tender was only available without the bell ringer.  As far as is known there is only a single bell ringing prototype in existence - the model makers sample.  According to one published source these engines were the result of a single production run.  All known examples suffer from die-cast fatigue and according to the Greenberg guide none of the survivors can operate.  The only example I've ever seen of this engine was a heavily shopped version. A collector with extreme machinist skills and tools took an intact boiler shell, machined a new chasses, cast new wheels, and used the connecting rods, axles, and motor from the original, along with an intact tender and managed to make a functioning 0-8-0.  Essentially he "jacked up the bell and built a new engine underneath it".

 

 

Catalog cut of NKP switcher

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

[kaycee]

You have a fine collection indeed an a nice train room.

I have been collecting 'Chicago Era' Flyer the last few years. They are really good looking pre-war trains.

To stretch my budget, I also purchase the 'basket-cases' that are normally scrapped and bring them back to their former glory. Very satisfying to watch them run after who-knows-how-long.

Hope you enjoy some of my rescues.

The first is a vintage 1936, #1681 Hudson with 2 wheel trailing truck that appears to be a 4 wheel truck and a 4 rail whistle tender. It  is nearing completion. Even the 4 rail track was fixed up. I have enough track for a elongated double loop....this will be the centerpiece of my layout.

The second loco is a vintage 1934, #3323 which was just a boiler casting stripped of trim and a motor with missing parts and trucks. The tender was a wheel-less rust bucket. It is now complete and looks an works great...took quite a few months to bring it back.

 

 

[mersenne6]

 

  3/16 - The Cars

    Freight Die-Cast

    1939 - 1941

    The first freight cars offered in 3/16 scale were a series of die-cast cars.  I don't have pictures of any of these cars, however, the catalog cuts illustrating the cars are shown in the first post on 3/16 Flyer (above).

  The cars, in numeric order are:

   #506 - Boxcar - B&O - white body and brown roof.

   #508 - Hopper - Virginian - gray.

   #510 - Stock Car - Missouri Pacific or no markings at all - Brown body, sheet metal door, black frame.

   #512 - Tank Car - Texaco - silver or gray tank - black cast frame.

   #514 - Crane (Wrecker Car) - die-cast black frame - open lattice construction - sheet metal cab - yellow sides, red roof, black smokestack, green die-cast boom.

   #516 Caboose - Silver rubber stamping either NYC or UP - red with nickel brass handrails.

  

Freight - sheet metal

  1940 - 1946

  #476 Gondola 1940-1941, 1946 - green with black frame - decals - "American Flyer Lines" and "476". 1946 - no journals on trucks.

 

  #483 Flatcar 1941 - black with orange or yellow orange die-cast girder. Girder can be either plain, or with decals "483" and "American Flyer Lines" or just "American Flyer Lines" or "483" on both sides of the girder.

 

 

 

 #478 Boxcar 1940-1941, 1946. No journals on trucks 1946.

 

 

 

 

 

 #480 Tank Car 1940.

 

      Observed Variations

   

      1. Orange tank, black frame, nickel dome, "Shell" decals.

 

      2. Same as #1 but no "Shell" decals.

 

      3. Same as #2 but red frame.

 

      4. Silver tank, green frame two "American Flyer Lines" decals on each side.

 

      5. Silver tank, blue frame "480" decals on each side.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 #481 Crane 1941

 

  Observed Variations:

 

  1. Red frame and cab roof, cab sides yellow, cab base black, green die-cast boom, "American Flyer Lines" and "481" decals on cab sides.

 

  2. Same as #1 but red cab.

 

  3. Same as #1 but black frame and gray boom.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#482 Log Car 1940-1941. Frame colors either green or black. Carried 6 dowel logs. One log on either side decaled with "American Flyer Lines" and "482". Also comes with a black frame and six square timbers either with or without the number "483". 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#484 Caboose 1940-1941, 1946. Handrails can be either black, white, or yellow.

 

#484L - Lighted Caboose 1940-1941 - visually the same as #484 but with light.

 

 

 

 

 #484L top, #484 bottom

 

 

 

 

 

#486 Hopper 1940-1941 - yellow - can have either a mix of decals "486" and "American Flyer Lines" or just "American Flyer Lines".

 

 

 

 

 

 

Operating Freight Cars

 

  #472 Automatic Unloading Car 1940-1941. Yellow ramp, red body with gray armored car by Tootsietoy.

 

   Variations - red ramp, black frame or red ramp, red frame.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#474 Automatic Hopper Car 1941 - red body black frame. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#488 Floodlight Car 1940-1941 - silver or light gray frame, red light platform, wire handrails, black or gray spotlight.

 

 

There is a second version of #488 with a black light platform

 

 

 

[M636C]

While not being able to add any illustrations myself, I thought I might comment on the obvious popularity of the New York Central Hudsons as prototypes for the scale models produced by both Gilbert and Lionel in the late 1930s and early 1940s.

Gilbert produced the 3/16 scale (1:64) J-3a illustrated above, but also the HO scale (1:87) Hudson (which I think was a J-1e, but I'm not certain). Lionel produced both the famous 700E (a J-1e) in Scale O (1:48) and their OO scale model (1:76), also a J-1e and there was also Lionel's relatively realistic O-27 model which appeared to be a little bigger than 3/16 in height, but nearly matching the length of the OO model. 

Has any fortunate collector a photo comparing the four 1930s scale models?

Failing that, can anyone post a photo of the American Flyer HO Hudson, which certainly qualifies as pre War, although in a gauge not normally associated with this forum...

I can't help in this regard myself, owning only the 1990 era reproduction of the Lionel 700E (and a Rivarossi HO J-3a). However since the 3/16" AF Hudson fits between my two, as does the Lionel OO model, I'd love to see the four 1930s scale models lined up (although I agree that this isn't going to be easy to arrange...)

M636C

[Northwoods Flyer]

Mersenne6,

Thank you for your contributions.  Once again you have provided the information in an area that I have very little experience. Its great to have the information on the 3/16 O gauge line available here. And as usual, your photos are a great asset.  Thanks again! 

 

Kaycee,

to the Forum and to this thread.  For some reason your photos did not post.  Please try again.  I'd like to see your work and I am sure others here would gain inspiration from your project.  Here are my examples of the two engines that you have been working on.

3323

 

 

And the 1681

 

 

M6366C,

 

to the thread. Thanks for your comments about the Hudson and its prototypes. Lets not forget the Hudson produced by American Flyer in 1936 before the purchase by Gilbert, as pictured above.  If you include this model there would be 5 models.  I have two of the examples, the O gauge version by Chicago Flyer and the HO version (I have to photograph this one yet.)  I would like to see all of the Hudsons in one photo as you suggest too.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

 

[O-GaugeOscar]

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Northwoods Flyer,

With a little time between work projects, I can now return to this great thread.  Thanks again for your information, time and efforts.  Below are some photos of our family's trains on the "Christmas tree layout".  The first is Dad's Pennsy locomotive and tender from the late 1930's.

Here is another photo while running.

 Below are the passenger cars.

 

Next is the station, a work-in-progress scene due to several modifications....

 

Finally, a photo of Dad's American Flyer in the foreground and my Lionel "work train" from the early 1970's in the background.

 

I apologize for the photographs' sizing and coding at the beginning of this post.  Is anyone an expert in using Shutterfly.com and posting photos?  If so, I'd appreciate some pointers.  (Btw, I'm using Firefox as my browser.) 

Thanks.

 

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

O-Gauge Oscar,

Thanks for posting the photos of your Dad's Flyer trains.  They look like they are in excellent condition.  It appears that I got the consist correct when I assembled the same train from different sources. I am sure that it brings back some wonderful memories as it glides along the tracks.  I hope you get more time off from your work projects to play with your trains and to post more photos when you can.

I use shutterfly for all of my postings.  Email me off thread and perhaps I can help you with the postings.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[Northwoods Flyer]

Index 

 A new Index was posted on page 44 on 02/05/2011

 

The initial Index for this thread was created by Mersenne6.  He actually created it twice – having to re-create it at the time the format of the forum was changed. The last index was posted on page 27.  The thread has grown by almost 11 pages since that time.  I have added to the work that he did and have updated the index through page 37.  I’ll try to keep it more current.  I realize it isn’t easy to maneuver through the pages, but this will give folks a rough idea of where to find the items that have been posted to date.  The index is posted here and I will edit it into the first post on page 1.

Enjoy!

Freight Cars 

Box Cars

 O gauge:

6 1/2 inch litho - pp. 8, Enamel pp. 17                  

6 ½ inch #3015 Box car compared to Lionel #655 & # 605 Box car – pp. 30

9 1/2 inch Litho - pp. 10, Enamel - pp. 16

5 1/2 Morris Reefer - litho - pp. 12

Early box car - pp. 22

Boxcars - general comparison of different manufacturers - pp. 7

Boxcar - Standard Gauge - pp. 17

Caboose - pp. 24  long post - Cars: M1111/1111 Center and offset cupola,  #1114/1117, 1127

3004/3014/3017/232, 3201/3211/411, 536

6 ½ inch # 3017 Caboose compared to Lionel #657 & # 807 – pp. 31

Caboose - additional pictures and discussion #3017 - paint and truck variations, #232, #1127 - pp. 26 

Caboose - #3211, #411 – pp. 29

Caboose - #3201 pp. 30

 

Dump Car

 

6 ½ inch  #3009, #3019, #230 – pp. 29

6 ½ inch # 3019  Dump car compared to Lionel #653 & #803 – pp.30

6 ½ inch Lionel #659 Dump car – pp. 31

 

9 ½ inch   #3219, #409 – pp. 29 

 

 Floodlight/Searchlight

 

6 ½ inch Lionel # 620 Floodlight car – pp. 31

9 ½ inch   #3213, #415

Gondola

6 1/2 inch lithoed for - American Flyer, NYC, PRR - orange, PRR - green, CB&Q - pp. 6,  Enamel - #3016 - green and orange pp. 6, 16, 19

9 1/2 inch litho - pp. 10, Enamel - pp. 10

5 1/2 inch litho - pp. 7

6 ½ inch #3016 sand car compared to Lionel # 652 gondola

Cattle Car

O gauge and Standard - pp. 14

6 ½ inch Lionel # 656 cattle car – pp. 31

Tank Car

6 1/2 inch litho - pp. 8, Enamel - pp. 8

6 ½ inch   #3018 tank car compared to Lionel #654 tank car -  pp. 30

 

9 1/2 inch litho - pp. 10, Enamel - pp. 10, #3210 – pp. 30

Standard Gauge tank  - pp. 10

Crane Cars - two posts - pp. 21

Hopper cars - pp. 22

Log/Machinery/Flat Cars - pp. 24 - Four different posts:  Cars - #241/M241, #1106/1146, #3006/3046, #3206/3216, #406

6 ½ inch #3046  compared to Lionel #651 – pp. 30

Operating Cars - 3/16 inch - Hopper, Baggage, Armored Car - pp.21   

 

Wide Gauge Freight Cars

 

Christmas Wish List 1933 – pp. 32      #4010 Tank Car     #4018 Automobile/Box Car     #4020 Stock Car     #4021 Caboose     #4022 Machinery Car    

 

Passenger Cars

Ambassador Cars - pp.22

O gauge passenger cars - series of posts I, II, III - pp.17, 18

O gauge passenger cars - series of posts IV, V pp.20

O gauge passenger cars - last of post series VI - pp.21

Pullman #1206  Lightening Bolt – pp.30

Pullman #1306 - pp.19

#1200 passenger car series - pp. 18

#1621 Delux streamlined passenger cars - pp. 20

#1641, #1642 Hiawatha streamline passenger cars – pp. 31

Wide Gauge Passenger cars Post I, II pp. 15

 

Steam Engines

S Gauge

#21004/21005 - pp.26

O Gauge

Series of posts on Cast Iron Superstructure Steam Engines part I -  Engines #1219, #1094- pp. 10

Continuation of the Series parts II, III IV, V - Engines #3195, #3197, #3195X, #3198, #3190, #3180, #1084 - pp. 11,  part VI - Engine #915 and a summary of the end of cast iron steam - pp. 12

Clockwork engine Greenberg type XVII - pp.12

Hiawatha - pp. 15, # 1683 Type XIII – pp. 31

Royal Blue – repaint – pp. 31

Sheet Metal Steam Engines - pp. 13

Sheet Metal Type XX (2-4-4 and 2-4-0) versions from 1934-40 - pp.7, 14

#614 Sheet Metal Steam engine details - pp. 13

#429 Scale 0-6-0 - pp. 15

#420 Die Cast Nickel Trim - 4 posts including pictures of engine, engine in set, and engine as part of delux Erector Set pp. 27

#425 - pp. 20, 1938 - # 425 pp. 35

#3180 pp.28

 

#3190 pp. 28

 

#3195X - pp.18  # 3185 and tender pp.29

 

#3196 and tender pp. 29

 

#3315 -  detailed pictures of consist and locomotive electric motor - pp. 1, pp. 28

 

#3326  -  Christmas Wish List 1932 - pp. 32

#4615 - pp. 19

#4622-6 – Type XV Pacific – pp. 31

General information about O gauge steam engines - pp. 16

 

Electric Outline Engines O Gauge

Steeple Cabs two long posts - Engines #1201, #1217, #1218, #1218 - Yellow, #1270, #3103, #3110 - pp. 12

Steeple Cab #1270 - pp.13, 

#1218 - Yellow - pp.22, 1218 – pp.28,

#3110 - pp. 22, 3110 – pp. 28

Box Cab #3107 detal photos - pp. 26, 27

 

#3015 – Large Box Cab -  pp. 35

 

# 3020 – Large Box Cab – pp. 35

 

Electric Outline Engines Standard (Wide) Gauge

First set from 1925 - pp. 5

Eagle I, II - pp.12

New Haven style I, II - pp. 12

NYC style - pp. 12

St. Paul style - pp. 13

Presidential Special - pp. 19

 

Sets O Gauge

No. 2 Freight Set – Christmas Wish List 1938 – pp. 33

 

No. 10 Northern Pacific Freight Set – pp. 33, 36

 

Ambassador - pp.17

 

The Ambassador Set (passenger – Victory Red)  – Christmas Wish List 1930 – pp.32

 

B&O Passenger Train (streamline) 4322-6 Steam engine and green streamlined cars – Christmas Wish List – 1940 – pp. 33

Bluebird litho - pp. 5, enameled - pp. 7

Bluebird set from 1929 - pictures and catalog cuts - pp. 25

Boxcab lithoed passenger set (brown) - pp. 5

The Brigadier Freight Set – Christmas Wish List 1935 – pp. 32

 

Broadway Limited (passenger) – Christmas Wish List 1927 – pp. 32

 

Burlington Zephyr – 9900 (streamlined passenger) Christmas Wish List -1934 – pp. 32, 35

City of Denver set from 1936 - pp.20

Clipper set from 1930: Consist - Engine #3103 red enameled steeple cab, #3103 litho gondola, #3012 litho Box car, litho caboose #3014 - pp. 25

Clockwork Sets: Hummer, Empire Express - pp.14

Clockwork Sets - pp. 15

Clockwork set #16 from1925 - pp.6

Comet from 1935 - pp. 4

Comet (picture of real train set) - pp. 9

Doubleheader - pp. 15, 33

Dual Clockwork train set M20 from 1914  - pp. 10

Explorer Set – pp. 34

Frontenac - enameled boxcab and cars - pp.2

Green Diamond from 1935 - pp. 4

Hiawatha Streamlined Passenger Set – Christmas Wish List 1937 – pp. 33

Highlander set from 1933: Consist - Die cast steam engine #3301, green enameled baggage, pullman, and observation brass trim and decal - pp.25

 

Iron Horse Set 1931-1932  - pp. 29

Jeffersonian Set of 1927: Consist - all green enamel and litho: Engine #3015, Illini Cars baggage, pullman, observation - pp.24

M1X Clockwork set from 1915: Engine M1, passenger car #1107 wood sheathed litho pullman - Pennsylvania - pp. 25

Man-O-War passenger set - #3280 passenger cars - pp. 21, 27 (Ambassador Cars)

The Merchant Set (freight) – Christmas Wish List 1928 – pp. 32

 

Mountain Red Ball Set (Double Header Set) – Christmas Wish List 1939 – pp. 33

New Jeffersonian Set from 1928-1931: Consist - two tone blue enamel: Engine #3115, #3280 club car (baggage), #3281 pullman, #3282 observation - pp.24

Oriental Limited - orange litho box cab electric and cars - pp. 3,5

Oriental Limited set from 1927: Consist - orange litho with red window litho trim - Engine #3012 - pp.26

The Pennsylvania Passenger Set (Low Wide cars) Christmas Wish List 1936 – pp. 32, 34

The Potomac - #3180 passenger car series - pp. 21

The Potomac set of 1928 - tan and green enamel: Consist- Engine #3146, #3180 passenger car series - pp. 25

Prairie State set of 1929 - clockwork - red passenger set - pp. 6

Royal Blue Freight and Passenger sets – Christmas Wish List 1941 – pp. 33

#1301T Sheet metal steam - Consist #617 sheet metal steam engine and freight cars-pp. 7

Steel Mogul - pp. 11

Streamlined Steam sets - pp. 8

Zephyr cast aluminum set of 1934 - pp. 3, 14, 15

Zephyr - tinplate of 1935 - pp. 3, 11

Union Pacific streamlined passenger set  1684 power car, 1631 coach, 1632 observation – pp. 34

#1 Passenger Set of 1938 - Consist #4603 2-4-4 sheet metal steam engine - gunmetal gray with copper trim.  Passenger cars - red enamel #1214 baggage, #1213 pullman (two) and #1217 observation - pp. 25

#2 Freight Set of 1938 - Consist #4603 2-4-4 sheet metal steam engine - gunmetal gray with copper trim, #3019 dump, #3015 box car, #3018 oil car, #3017 caboose - pp. 24

#1201 Passenger set of 1925: Consist #1218 black enamel steeple cab, #1104 baggage and #1103 passenger cars dark litho green - baggage has GN goat logo and passenger car has "Oriental Limited" above the windows - pp. 25

#1220 set from 1926 - Consist all red enamel and litho: Engine #1218, #1205 baggage, #1306 pullman, #1207 observation - pp. 24

Uncataloged passenger set - Consist #617 sheet metal steam - unmarked green litho passenger cars with orange enameled roof and gray trucks.  Car numbers are #1226, 1227, 1228 - baggage, pullman, observation respectively - pp. 26

 

Sets – Standard (Wide) Gauge

All-American Limited set from 1926 - Consist - maroon enamel and litho: Engine #4019, #4040 baggage, pullman - American, Observation - Pleasant View - pp. 25

The Brigadier (passenger set) – Christmas Wish List 1931 – pp. 32

 

The Hamiltonian set from 1928 - Consist - red enamel: Engine #4687, baggage pullman, observation - pp. 25

 

The Pathfinder Set – Christmas Wish List 1929 – pp. 32

 

Presidents Special (Rookie Tan version) – Christmas Wish List 1926  -   pp. 32

 

The Trail Blazer Set ( freight) – Christmas Wish List 1931- pp. 32 

 

Accessories

S Gauge

#594 Track Gang,  #23780 Gabe,  #785 Coal Tower,  #770 Loader & #734 Op Box car,  #583A Magnetic Crane,  #23796 Saw Mill,  #752 Seaboard Coaler,  #718 Mail Car,  #772 Bubbling Tower,  #23568 Whistling Billboard,  #23791 Cow on Track,  #759 and  #760 Flashers,  #758A Sam the Semaphore Man,  #774 Rotating Beacon,  #766 Animated Station,  #779 Drum Loader,  #755 Talking Station,  #789 Baggage Smasher,  #596 Water Tower,  #771 Stockyard,  #767 Bradford Diner  - pp.1

Hand cars  - pp. 8, 10 

#579 Single die cast street lamp – pp. 36

#580 Double die cast street lamp – pp. 36

 

#593 Signal Tower,  #748 Footbridge,  #594 Track Gang,  #793 Union Station,  #769A Water Tower,  #750 Trestle,  #768 Oil Supply Depot - pp. 25

 

#718 Mail pick-up car - pp. 31

 #755 Talking Station – pp.37  with link to video and audio of the station in action

O Gauge 

Block Signal - pp. 15

Block Signal #2218 – pp. 34

 

Crossing Gate #2042/4042 – pp. 30

 

Crossing Gate # 2222a, #2222b – pp. 30

Manual Reverse - track clip accessory - pp. 26

Street Lights #2109/2110/2209/2210  - pp.12, 16

Switches - #405/408 - pp.27

Triangle Light #2005 - 31

Tunnels - pp. 6

Water Tank - pp. 8

 

Wide Gauge

 

Mail Bag set #4122 – pp. 31 

 

Stations

Freight Stations - general comparison with other manufacturers- AF, Bing, Fandor, Hornby - pp. 6

97 Long Base - pictures and variation descriptions - pp. 4

Suburban station #93, #234 - pp. 10  , #93 - pp. 25,  additional #234 - pp. 25

#234 station variations - pp. 25

#235 Large accessory - pp.10

#236 - pp. 11

Watchman Tower - pp. 11,  #92 - pp. 25

American Flyer Prewar Stations - multiple posts I, II, III, IV - pp. 13, 14  Stations described/pictured - #96, #104,  Passenger Platforms - #91, #586,  Freight Sheds - #M93,  #93,  #95,  #97,  #97/98 Long Base, Medium Sized Stations  #97,  #98,  #99,  #101,  #102,  #105,  #107,  #110 

#214 station variations - pp. 14

#90 passenger station - pp.14, 25

#96, #105 additonal pictures - pp. 2

Articles

 

Backyard Railroad Contest   - pp. 29

 

2^nd Anniversary – 1936 Catalog Cover – Streamliners – pp. 34  

 

3/16 O gauge

 

3/16 O passenger cars  #496, #497, #521, #524Several entries regarding history and items available – pp. 34

Page 37 contains several excellent entries by Mersenne6 describing the Gilbert 3/16  O gauge line, with pictures and catalog illustrations

 

[mersenne6]

  Thanks Northwoods - I was getting ready to do an update of the index this weekend.  Since you were kind enough to take care of that problem I'll go ahead and work on finishing the posts concerning 3/16" Flyer.

[M636C]

Northwoods Flyer

And the 1681

 

 

M636C,

 

to the thread. Thanks for your comments about the Hudson and its prototypes. Lets not forget the Hudson produced by American Flyer in 1936 before the purchase by Gilbert, as pictured above.  If you include this model there would be 5 models.  I have two of the examples, the O gauge version by Chicago Flyer and the HO version (I have to photograph this one yet.)  I would like to see all of the Hudsons in one photo as you suggest too.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

I was aware of the 1681 from catalogue illustrations, and had noted the the emphasis on the size of this locomotive from the text. It is indicated as being 22 inches long. The Lionel 700E, known to be a 1/4 inch scale model is shown as being 23-3/4 inches long (about 23-1/4 inches at a scale engine-tender spacing). So despite having a single axle leading truck, this locomotive was very close to being a scale model, although some of the detailing is that of traditional toy trains. One particular feature is the piping to the steam dome. This appears to be a feature carried over from German made toys. Many German locomotives had feed water fed into the boiler at a steam dome which contained trays to collect sediment. The headlight is somewhat overscale, but the remaining detail is reasonably correct for a J-1e with a Coffin feedwater heater. Most other Central Hudsons (J1b, J3a) had a transverse Elesco cylindrical feed water heater on top of the smokebox.

Not only was this a near scale model but it preceded Lionel's 700E, although it was much less costly. It may have influenced Lionel into producing the 700E in order to provide a "better" scale Hudson. In fact, it sold for less than the 3/16 scale Flyer J3a Hudson in 1939.  This might suggest that the finer detail of the smaller model increased the cost of production.

In retrospect, it appears that Flyer under Chicago management were attempting to produce a scale O Gauge line just as Gilbert took over and moved towards the smaller scale. The 0-6-0 switcher, always described as "O Scale" was a quite reasonable scale replica of the USRA 0-6-0 switcher.

Strangely, Lionel's current "Lionmaster" line appears to be a reinvention of the American Flyer 3/16 O gauge line, including yet another J3a Hudson....

M636C

[mersenne6]

3/16 Passenger Cars

   The passenger cars came in two styles - heavyweight Pullman and classic New Haven streamline.  On the real New Haven Railroad the men referred to their real cars as "American Flyer coaches."

Die Cast Heavyweight 1939-1941

  The first passenger cars offered by Gilbert were die cast heavyweight Pullman cars offered either in Pullman Green or Tuscan.  There were two cars #521 Club Car - essentially a combine, and #524 Pullman.  Both cars were rubber stamped with their respective car numbers and with "Pullman" on the letterboard. Both cars have plastic window inserts with simulated shades. In addition, the doors, both baggage and passenger, had plastic window inserts glued on their inside faces. The glue for these smaller windows on the doors seems to have grown brittle with time. Consequently, they are often missing or found rattling around inside the car.  Both the baggage door and the passenger doors operate.  The passenger doors are spring loaded. Both cars were offered in kit form and both came with lights and 12 wheel trucks.

 

#521 Club Car

 

 

 

 

#524 Pullman

 

 

Sheet Metal 1940-1941

 

  Sheet metal New Haven passenger style cars were first offered in 1940.  The cars consisted of a #492 baggage and a #495 coach.  In addition to the New Haven style American Flyer also offered a sheet metal Pullman and a sheet metal Pullman Observation - #496 and #497 respectively.  The New Haven cars came with 4 wheel trucks while the Pullman cars came with 12 wheel trucks. The cars came with or without lights.

 

 

#495 New Haven style coaches in Pullman Green and Blue

 

 

 

 

 

Catalog cut illustrating the sheet metal Pullman coach and observation

 

 

  The sheet metal cars were offered in Pullman Green, Apple Green, Red, Tuscan, and Blue. The doors on the baggage cars either matched the car paint or were white.  The cars came with belly pans that were painted either black or white. 

 

  The boxes for these cars will have the car number rubber stamped on the flap along with a letter R,B,G,T - red blue green/apple green, Tuscan.  Lighted cars also had the letter "L" after the letter designating the color.

 

Operating Passenger Cars

 

#490 Whistling Baggage Car - offered in either blue - to go with the Royal Blue passenger set - or metallic gray as a cataloged add on car.  The whistle was DC activated.

 

 

#490 Whistling Baggage Cars

 

 

 

#492 Mail Pickup Baggage Car - (Red, Pullman Green, or Tuscan) - picks up one mail bag and discharges another - comes with a special remote control track section and controller. The baggage pickup post is part of the special track section.

 

 

 Pullman Green #492

 

 

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

Mersenne 6,

This is great information on the 3/16 O gauge passenger cars.  I might have to start looking for some cars to make into sets one of these days. 

Thanks for your effort and contribution.

Millions of Happy Owners

I've been spending some time examining the items in the Wide Gauge portion of my collection and I was reminded of the variations that exist in the brass tags attached to the freight cars.  One of the advertising approaches that Flyer used was the running total of the "Millions of Happy Owners" statements that were used.  It reminded me of the days when McDonalds posted the "millions of hamburgers sold" on their golden arches signs.  Most of the freight cars in my collection have these "Millions" tags on them.  In the Greenberg guide Schuweiler notes that there are 4 different tags used. They are for 6 million (2 designs and color variations), 7 million and 8 million.  I happen to have 4 of the green 4017 sand cars and one orange one, and all of the green sand cars have different million tags.

6 million has two different designs.  According to Schuweiler the earliest version has a small "Million"

 

 

Early versions of the 6 Million plates are also supposed to come with a blue shield background and smaller lettering.  I don't have one of those variations, although I wonder if some that are seen as black are actually dark blue.

 

The later version has a large "Million"

 

 

 

This is the 7 Million version

 

 

 

And here is the 8 Million version

 

 

Notice the change in colors on the 8 Million tags, which I think looks more dramatic.

 

 

I know that I read an excellent article at one time where someone had done a study of the examples of the tags and advertising to determine when the number tags actually changed numbers.  The author had some theories of when, I.e. the month of the year that they were changed.  I couldn't find the reference or article anywhere, but I'll keep looking.   If anyone knows where I can find that article or information, please let me know.

 

Just from checking the American Flyer catalogs that I have going back to 1925 I discovered a few things.  The 1926 catalog makes reference to 5 1/2 Million Happy Owners.  The back of the 1928 catalog lists it as being 6 1/2 Million Happy Owners.  Obviously the 8 million tag was made sometime before 1936 when Wide Gauge disappeared from the catalog.

I have seen reference to 9 1/2 Million Happy owners printed on the side of an original box for one of the Wide Gauge Salt Lake Bridge.  I did not take the time to do a thorough examination of all of the catalogs to see if I could better pinpoint the dates when the Million tags were used.  If you know of any other examples of the number of  "Millions of Happy Owners" listed, please let me know or send me an email.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

Wide Gauge Steamer 4692 - Ives Casting 1134

American Flyer began marketing Wide Gauge trains in 1925, but it didn't offer a steam engine until 1929.  In 1928 American Flyer and Lionel purchased the Ives Company in a bancrupty sale.  In the sale Flyer obtained the Ives steamer boiler casting and the Ives tender.  The first Wide Gauge steam engine that Flyer cataloged used the 1134 Ives engine casting and an Ives tender, which used American Flyer trucks with wheels that had red centers.  The tender was never cataloged with its own number but instead it was referred to as Golden State after the name plate that Flyer placed on its side. 

The 1929 catalog lists three sets with the new steamer. Two of them are passenger sets and one is a 5 car freight.  Many years ago I purchased the 1929 version of the 4694 from a local collector.  I didn't realize the significance of the engine at the time, and only discovered what I had once I did some research. 

 

The engine has great detail and the red wheels make a bold statement.

 

 

The 1929 version comes with two different styles of siderods.  This one has the more complex version.

 

The tender has Golden State plates on the side which were also used on the Golden State passenger cars in O gauge.

 

 

 

And don't forget to take a look at those snazy red wheels.

 

 

And just as a point of comparison for size here is the 4692 next to one of Amercian Flyer's larger O gauge engines.  Its amazing to think that children where the ones handling these heavy toys.

 

 

 

 

Here is the front view of the engine.

 

 

And a shot of its diecast headlight and brass button identifying it as the 4694, even though this engine is known as the 4692.

 

 

The engine and tender combination measure an impressive 26" long.

 

 

This is the only Wide Gauge steamer that I have in my collection.  I hope to add others, particularly the brass piper.  We'll see how long that takes.  When I purchased this engine and its cars and boxes it took me several years of payments each month to pay for it.  I have never regretted spending the money.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

 

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

 

 

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

 3207 Sand Car

This post originally appeared back on page 10.  I recently added another variation to my collection and I decided to update it here.  I've also edited in some additional information to identify the cars here by their designations in the Greenberg guide.

Northwoods Flyer

3207

Gondolas, Sand Cars and Coal Cars

 Flyer used several terms to refer to their gondola cars over the years.  They used the term "coal car" in some of their earliest catalogs.  Through the years they used the terms "gondola" and "sand car" interchangeably.  mersenne6 has posted pictures of the lithographed versions of the 9 1/2" sand cars.  Flyer produced enameled versions of the 9 1/2 inch cars from 1928 to 1938.  A few of the variations are pictured here.  All of them are numbered 3207.

This is the earliest version that I have.  It is has two brass plates on each side, one reading "American Flyer Lines", and the other "3207".  Notice that the steps at the ends of the car are long, and are actually spot welded to the frame.  These trucks are known as type VII

This is a variation not listed in Greenberg, but it is very similar to (C) with spot welded steps.

 

This is the new addition.  It is very similar to version (B) with riveted steps. 

 

 Notice the differences in the body color, green vs black frame color, and the difference in the treatment of the applied steps.

 

The next version has two "American Flyer Lines" decals per side and the steps are a part of the frame of the car.  This is sometimes refered to as the new style of frame.  The trucks are known as Type VIII.

This is version (E)

 

This verison is from 1938.  It also has two "American Flyer Lines" decals per side. The style of truck is known as XII.  The trucks and the sheet metal knuckle coupler known as the "Curly Q" coupler are the identifying marks for production from this year.

This is version (H).

 

The 407 as cataloged in 1939.  It has the same style frame with steps and the same style truck as the 1938 version but it is equiped with Gilbert's link and pin coupler.  I was sure that I had this variation and when I went to look for it I discovered that I did not own it after all.  So now I have discovered one more item to put on my "to get" list.

Here are the versions that I have, illustrating the difference in trucks, and the variations in colors of green that were used.

 

Notice the middle and closest cars each have decals but there are two stlyes of decal used.  Just one more detail that adds some variety.

The vast majority of the 3207s are some shade of green.  There is an orange variation that is very difficult to find.  I have heard of other variations as well including a grey variation, but I have not seen them.  One of the things that I have noticed is that it is difficult to find one of these cars in really excellent condition.  I think it is because it has so much play value, hauling around stones, and building blocks or Tinker Toys, or scrap metal, or Erector set parts, and other items.  It really is the work horse of the freight cars.  When I have sand cars running on display they always carry candy.

If there are other examples available to see please post them.

I'm still looking for a #407 Sand Car from 1939 with the link and pin couplers.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby.

Northwoods Flyer

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

The Royal Blue

3/16 O Gauge Passenger Set 

Mersenne6 has done an excellent job of posting information on the 3/16 O gauge line that Gilbert produced after taking over American Flyer in 1938 up to the beginning of the War. (Just scroll back a few posts and you can read them for yourself.)  I should have never started reading about those trains because it motivated me to start looking for some examples to add to my collection.

I found a Royal Blue set and decided to make it the beginning of this phase of collecting.  I quoted part of his post below and added some pictures of the set I recently aquired.

mersenne6

Sheet Metal 1940-1941

 

  Sheet metal New Haven passenger style cars were first offered in 1940.  The cars consisted of a #492 baggage and a #495 coach.  In addition to the New Haven style American Flyer also offered a sheet metal Pullman and a sheet metal Pullman Observation - #496 and #497 respectively.  The New Haven cars came with 4 wheel trucks while the Pullman cars came with 12 wheel trucks. The cars came with or without lights.

 

#495 New Haven style coaches in Pullman Green and Blue

 

 

Catalog cut illustrating the sheet metal Pullman coach and observation

 

 

  The sheet metal cars were offered in Pullman Green, Apple Green, Red, Tuscan, and Blue. The doors on the baggage cars either matched the car paint or were white.  The cars came with belly pans that were painted either black or white. 

 

  The boxes for these cars will have the car number rubber stamped on the flap along with a letter R,B,G,T - red blue green/apple green, Tuscan.  Lighted cars also had the letter "L" after the letter designating the color.

The Royal Blue was cataloged in 1940 and 1941.  This example has the 554 ( numbered 556) dark blue streamlined Baltimore & Ohio bullet engine and the 555 (rubber stamped on the bottom) dark blue sheet metal tender.

 

This version has rubber stamped lettering.

 

 

It comes with a 494(B) Baggage with white doors and belly pans

 

 

And 2  -  495(B) passenger coaches with white belly pans

 

 

Those of you who are familiar with or collect S gauge American Flyer recognize the engine as one of the entry level engines that Flyer marketed after the war.  It is too bad that they didn't produce blue passenger cars to match The Royal Blue streamlined engine.

 

I think its a great looking set.

 

 

On another thread Mersenne 6 has told the story that the Royal Blue set was his introduction to 3/16 O gauge.  So in honor of his contributions to this thread and a great working relationship this set will be known as

 

The Mersenne 6 Special

on the Blueboard Central Division of American Flyer Lines

 

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

 

Northwoods Flyer

[Sturgeon-Phish]

BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!!

[RockIsland52]

You guys are a bad influence on me and my addiction.  Knock it off! 

Jack

[AF53]

Nice! Would love to see more pre-war steamer pics, esp the wide gauge! Thanks!

[Hudson#685]

I have to admit these are very very nice. I love both pre and post war.

AF53, Ray, I think that it is time to add some Flyer to my collection.

John

 

 

[mersenne6]

 The Bordens Milk Tank Car

  I just returned from vacation and dropped by to see what had been posted - imagine my surprise to find that my screen name now graces a name train - thanks Northwoods - I'm honored.

 ...and speaking of vacations and Flyer trains... a few words about the American Flyer Bordens Milk Tank Car that DocBen illustrated in a previous post.

   Many people view the car as nothing more than a Flyer Fantasy.  In fact the Bordens tank car was for real.  The prototype actually came two different ways - the way Flyer made it and the same configuration with fins. 

  I'm only aware of the existence of one of the real cars (if there are others I'd like to know) and it is safely tucked away at the Illinois Railroad Museum at Union.  Back in 1988 I made a visit to the museum and took a picture of the car.  After DocBen posted his picture I thought it would be worthwhile posting a picture of the real thing so I went to the slide boxes and...

Bad News - I couldn't find the slide.

Oh well, such is life....

  In our family I leave vacation planning to the rest of the family.  I like traveling so I really don't much care where we go.  Vacation this year was from late May to early June.  A couple of days before we were scheduled to go I sat down and got my briefing on where we were going.  National Parks were the main focus but everyone wanted to make a stop in Chicago to see the Museum of Science and Industry, The Rookery, and Oak Park.  From Chicago we were going to head West.  In passing I asked about our proximity to Union.

Good News - we were going right past the place and everyone agreed Dad ought to be granted visiting rights.

  In due course we arrived at Union.

Bad News - traffic held us up and it was only a couple of hours until closing.

Good News - I got a ticket and went in anyway and I asked about the location of the Borden car.

Bad News - it was on site but it was out on the most distant set of storage tracks.

Good News - I received permission to walk out there.

Bad News - they had had very heavy rains and the ground in between the track storage areas was almost a marsh.

Good News - the right-of-way was high and dry and I kept my feet dry.

Bad News - the storage tracks were in tight groups of 3 and the Borden car was on the center track sandwiched in between dozens of other freight cars.

Good News - I have a great wide angle zoom lens.

Bad News - the focal length needed to photograph the car distorts the car and makes in look longer than it is.

Good News - distortion or no - I got the pictures and here they are. 

 

 

 

 As you can see - Flyer did a very credible job of representing the version without the fins.

 

[DocBen]

 How amazingly ironic that I am camping 5 miles from there, and have plans to go there tomorrow...and you happen to post those pics of the Borden Milk Car tonight.  I may have not known it was even there, if it's hidden back in yards somewhere.  Thanks for the great post!  I'll be sure to find that tomorrow.  I've lived 35 miles from there all my life, and never been there.  Strange how things work.