Bob Nelson
Just yesterday I picked up a complete PE set from a gentleman who was parting out sets on EBAY. I took it out of the box and put about 6-8 drops of liquid "Christmas" smoke in the smoke unit.
I ran it for about 5 minutes, but no visible smoke. So I tossed 'er in neutral and cranked up the transformer. It then started to cloud in the stack. Running it forward clears the stack rather quickly and then back to basically nothing. I continued to run it hoping that I just had too many drops of smoke in the stack and it just needed to burn some of it off. Nope - nothing visible that I could see.
From reading this thread - it isn't going to get better with time. Looks like the best solution is to cut to the chase and bust 'er open and do the fix!
Thanks for the detailed procedures everyone!
One thing about trains: It doesn't matter where they’re going. What matters is deciding to get on.
Shhhucantcme wrote: ok, someone get me a fire extinguisher! I modified the recipe a bit and now have something that works for me.I took out most of the pink insulation just leaving a very very thin layer at the bottom of the pot and around the air holes. I then cut some of the TIKI torch fibers to the length of the pot and layed them in very loose between the two air holes and just above. I wet it down with a few drops of fluid and built it up again loosely to above the air holes with the tiki fibers and then replaced the top.I put the shell on added 6 more drops and it is working great. I have more smoke at half throttle than I did at 3/4 or full.Thank you Jim with the guidence you have given all day.
ok, someone get me a fire extinguisher! I modified the recipe a bit and now have something that works for me.
I took out most of the pink insulation just leaving a very very thin layer at the bottom of the pot and around the air holes. I then cut some of the TIKI torch fibers to the length of the pot and layed them in very loose between the two air holes and just above. I wet it down with a few drops of fluid and built it up again loosely to above the air holes with the tiki fibers and then replaced the top.
I put the shell on added 6 more drops and it is working great. I have more smoke at half throttle than I did at 3/4 or full.
Thank you Jim with the guidence you have given all day.
GREAT NEWS!! Glad JimTrumpie jumped in had helped too. He always has good advice.
God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of the NRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified
Hey! That's great news! Glad to hear that your Polar Express is now smoking well. Next time your smoke unit needs a tune up, you will surely know all the tricks!
Best of luck, and congratulations.
Jim
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
Hi Jim,
When you say the 2 switches, do you mean the on off switches for the smoke unit and the direction of travel. I really do not recall if it was there or not so I am going to remove the 4 screws again and look. mean while I will see if I hear back from you as to the switches. If it is not there could it be somewhere else? I do not know how many of my post you have read but I didn't even find a sock on my element. It was bare.
Mark,
When you had the loco apart, was there a big white resistor laying on the frame by the two switches? If so, take it out. This will give the smoke unit more voltage, resulting in more smoke. The stock heating element (8141-55) has a resistance of roughly 27 ohms without this resistor. The element in my berk has a faint orange glow towards higher throttle settings, and it smokes great. If you'd like to try a hotter element, try an element intended for an MTH smoke unit. They are 16 ohms. I haven't tried this myself, so I can't say if the higher heat would affect the piston or cylinder.
Hey Jim,
I resoldered the wire and I must say it is a better contact then from the factory.
My piston seems to be moving freely. I do not hear binding and the engine is running smooth.
I am also getting the bilowing very well. Like I mentioned, when in idle and getting a build up in the pot, once I move forward it puffs great for a lap around original diameter and 6 feet long
I will try to break it in a bit. Maybe it needs saturated more.
Did I metion I appreciate your help today :-) Thank you,
I will keep trying. I am not one to give up. I just wanted to for go the extra expense for a different smoke unit I saw on the web. have you heard of tas studios. They have a great unit for these Lionel engines.
Did you resolder the wire?
It takes a few laps for all the fluid to heat up and start billowing. First it starts out as a wisp and builds up. The only thing else I can tell you is to check and see that the piston is moving freely and smoothly up and down. Then run it and see if that makes a difference.
well not realy a noticeable change. I nestled it and even took it apart again and re packed looser. Still same result. The holes are clear and when I sit in idle and let it heat up then take off you can see the puffs but they quickly go away as the piston clears the chamber.
It seems that it really has to be moving at a good clip to produce but that just makes the smoke not as noticeable.
Has anyone tried putting a lower voltage element in so that the power doesn't have to be so high? Does anyone even know the values of the original element?
I just go down to the basement and pull of a hunk about 1/3 as big as a golf ball, Then I size that hunk up with the smoke unit and tear pieces off until it looks like it will fit. You can tuck it around the two holes, but make sure it's not compacted/compressed vertically. You want it to sit high enough so that the heating element will sit in the insulation.
ok Jim,
One last question if I may before I install this pink insulation.
Should I pull it apart a bit or just cut it to fit in the chunk that it is?
Thanks,
Thanks, Eric. glad to hear you got your PE smoking good again. Now we have to get Mark's working.
That's what mine looks like after the repack as well. I used some of the white insulation from my attic, the kind they blow in. After this repack is up, I'm going to try pink and do a comparo. Looks similar to what Jim is experiencing though. Jim, beautiful layout by the way.
Eric
Thats good to know.
I thought I was having a brain fart not being able to find my socks LMAO!
I can't wait to get home, repack, and smoke up the joint. Check out jims video. I hope mine will perform like that.
I will work on getting it back together when I get home from work. I will let you know how it went. Thanks again,
Mark
The "donut" I referred to is just a round, flat gasket with a hole in the middle that sits on top of the assembled smoke unit, and fits between the locomotive shell and the unit.
Make sure that the new wicking (insulation) is not blocking the air holes. It need only be placed between them and not all around them as was the old wicking.
Jim,
Thanks for your help. No sock huhhh? I cant imagine why not this was a brand new set never opened.
As for the spring I never lifted the bowl, I only lifted the top off.
Do you have a comment on the doughnut. Where should this have been had I had one. The parts list you gave me only shows the whole bowl set up
Geeeeeez am I a pain or what?
No sock in that photo.
What I meant was, make sure you put the spring in under the smoke unit bowl, then the piston.
If I have never touched the piston and spring should it be fine other than if it doesnt puff. I have not touched anything else other than taking the shell off and lifting the top.
I am going to check this photo bucket sight out.
I appreciate the help.
That was last year after the first time I did the procedure. Believe it or not, it smokes twice that much now. Not kidding. I started with 8-10 drops, then when output goes down, I add 4-5 more drops.
Bee careful with that hobby knife and the heating elelment!
You need a hosting page like Photobucket (free) to post photos.
Here's a link to a parts list and wiring/assembly drawings for the PE Berk.
Polar Express Diagrams Link
Make sure you have the piston and spring in the correct positions. Otherwise, it won't puff the smoke out.
Wow I would love to have mine smoke like that.
How many drops of fluid do you start with?
I just looked at mine again. No appparent sock. Could mine have burnt off? I scrapped the element with my hobby knife and it felt like ceramic.
How can I post a picture so you could see it?
Here's a link to my Polar Express Berk pulling some streamliners.
Smokin' PE Berk
My smoke unit's heating element had a cloth-like tube around it. It had become charred and brown from scorching, but was still recognizable as being cloth. That's what needs to be removed. I've only used the pink insulation and it works great for me. Make sure the element is nestles into the insulation. I use it in post war pill-type smoke units with good results as well.
Good luck.
Ok I think I have this message thing figured out.
Sorry to beat a dead horse here.
I am an n-scaler by heart and do not have the luxury of being familiar with smoke units. Geez after all these years we are finally getting some sound boards :-)
I took the advise of chiefs solution for my ailing PE smoke unit. It didn't smoke like I would like to see. I wanted to cloud the room.
I have removed the top but I opted to un-solder the wire from the light bracket to lift my top instead of unscrewing the unit. Looking in the top I see the element. it is brown with a little bit of white lettering. I can not make it out. Are these perhaps voltage ratings or stock #'s? There is no apparent sock that I see unless you are refering to the brown outer caseing of this element. Could it be that since this set was manufactured this year lionel didn't put socks on because of possible complaints in the past, or did JOE SMOKE just have a bad day when mine was built and forgot to put it on???
I also did not see or find any doughnut that was refered to in the post. Where should it be? Should it be between the bottom part of the can and the top that I took off?
Any way the only so to speak of sock I see is on the wire coming in from the board to the top of the smoke can. it is white in color and appears to be a rigid braided type of material. Once it gets to the tiny hole in the top it then becomes just the brown element then on the other side the wire coming out and through the other tiny hole on the other side. This of course is the one I said I un-soldered.
Also I have both materials that has been talked about. TIKI wick and insulation. If I use the tiki should I remove the outer web first and just use the fibers? Who has tried both and which one works better.
I appreciate any help that can be given.
mark
ChiefEagles wrote: Kooljock1 wrote:I usually reserve a snowy weekend in January for my yearly smoke unit re-packing. I keep a short step-ladder up-stairs next to the attic crawl-space hatch to access my wadding supply!I've also heard that Tiki-Torch wicking sold at Home Depot or Lowes works well.But the real secret is cutting off that dang-blasted sock!That, and using J.T.'s Mega-Steam!Jon Hey Kool, I have heard the same thing. Was told it did NOT char as bad.
Kooljock1 wrote:I usually reserve a snowy weekend in January for my yearly smoke unit re-packing. I keep a short step-ladder up-stairs next to the attic crawl-space hatch to access my wadding supply!I've also heard that Tiki-Torch wicking sold at Home Depot or Lowes works well.But the real secret is cutting off that dang-blasted sock!That, and using J.T.'s Mega-Steam!Jon
Hey Kool, I have heard the same thing. Was told it did NOT char as bad.
Yep, I heard the same thing Chief !!
Thanks, John
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