it has the zw 275 type R core in it. it's a riveted core. you can see it in a earlier post that i made that has a link to a picture of it.
i have one question. the whisle controllers only work if i push them about half way. if i push them futher the whistle stops on my k line. pushing the whistle lever half way my mth steamers it will start whistling & then i can push the whistle lever all the way forward & it will still work. is this normal? it has the rectifier discs in it. i haven't tried my postwar lionel air whistles yet.
I thought you meant that you got a type R transformer. You got a type ZW model R, which is an entirely different thing.
Bob Nelson
lionelsoni The 1.5KE36CA is the TVS that I recommend: http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/102002/1185776.aspx#1185776 Unless you don't mind changing fuses, get automatically resetting thermal circuit breakers from an auto parts store. Use the current rating appropriate for your wiring and transformer.
The 1.5KE36CA is the TVS that I recommend: http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/102002/1185776.aspx#1185776
Unless you don't mind changing fuses, get automatically resetting thermal circuit breakers from an auto parts store. Use the current rating appropriate for your wiring and transformer.
i'm getting ready to start my layout. i'm going with the atlas sectional track (without the roadbed). my layout will be a 5x9 or 5x10, & able to run two seperate trains at the same time. just say two basic ovals (o54 & o45). i have a couple of questions.
the first being, how many tvs do i need? one for the hot & one for the ground (common), or just one on the hot?
the second is, what size automatically resetting thermal circuit breakers would i need using a zw275? i don't know squat about electronics.
Reading through this post, the question that comes to mind is, in replacing the cord on a PW ZW, what gauge wire should you use?
I go to Home Depot and buy an extension cord for $1 and cut off the female plug. This cord should be 16 gauge. It is not a question of how much current the ZW draws, as this is relatively small, but how large should the cord be so that it is protected by the circuit breaker in your house.
Bruce Baker
i'm talking about the wire from the transformer to the track. i'm wanting to put a small circuit breaker/fuse in line so that a derailment doesn't fry my electronics in the engines. Bob said to use the current rating appropriate for your wiring and transformer.
Generally, use 14 AWG, since the internal circuit breaker is rated at 15 amperes. However, if you add separate circuit breakers to the individual outputs and those breakers are smaller than 15 amperes and you can tolerate any increased voltage drop due to the smaller wire, you can use 16 AWG for 10 amperes, 18 AWG for 7 amperes, 20 AWG for 5 amperes. Adding such breakers is a very good thing to do, whether you stay with 15 amperes or reduce the current rating below that.
Do not expect circuit breakers or fuses to save your locomotive electronics. A short circuit such as a derailment means that the current is flowing around, not through your locomotive. If the locomotive itself ever starts drawing high current through its electronics, it is already toast before any fuse or circuit breaker opens. Protect your locomotive with a transient voltage suppressor, which prevents the voltage spikes which are the real threat to the electronics. Protect your transformer and layout wiring with circuit breakers and fuses. Thermal circuit breakers do as good a job as faster types or fuses and don't trip unnecessarily on short overcurrents.
servoguy I go to Home Depot and buy an extension cord for $1 and cut off the female plug. This cord should be 16 gauge. It is not a question of how much current the ZW draws, as this is relatively small, but how large should the cord be so that it is protected by the circuit breaker in your house. Bruce Baker
Having said that, would there be any value in using 14 ga.? I have a few of these stashed just for this purpose.
The power cord is soldered into two eyelets. I don't think 14 ga wire will fit in the eyelets.
16 gauge is big enough. You are only drawing about 2.5 amps on the power cord.
Ok then, guess I'll find some other use for those cords.
Thanx!
I don't think we have answered all the questions here:
How many TVSs? One for each separate voltage source. So, if you're using two of the outputs of a ZW, you need two TVSs. Each TVS goes between the individual output terminal (A, B, C, or D) and the common (U), that is, one of the two leads of one TVS goes to, for example, the A terminal and the other of the TVS's two leads goes to the U terminal. They don't need to be at the transformer if another location is more convenient; but they still need to be connected to the wires that come from those same transformer terminals.
Use 15-ampere or smaller circuit breakers for a ZW.
Hi guys,
Back to the part about the ZM trnansformer, Model R, what does the R mean. Yep I am a flyer guy considering a ZW for my layout.
Thanks in advance,
George
let me make sure i've got this right. i could solder one side of the tvs to one terminal of a lionel track lock on & the other side of the tvs to the other? if that was done with a piece of wire it would make a short, how does this differ?
Unlike a piece of wire, the TVS does not conduct electricity until the voltage across it reaches the value that it is rated for. Then it conducts like crazy, keeping the voltage at that value, which is one that will not harm the electronics.
The TVS voltage rating is selected to be just a little higher than the maximum instantaneous voltage that would normally be on the track, which is not the same value that we use to describe the transformer output. For example, when we measure 20 volts coming out of the transformer, the instantaneous voltage is actually going up to about 28 volts.
Took Bob's advice and got TVS's. Never had a problem and actually do not worry about my engines and their electronics. Worry free operations.
God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of the NRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified
thanks Bob, i understand now.
"if that was done with a piece of wire it would make a short, how does this differ?"
Nitro, this was also the hardest part of TVS usage to wrap my head around. All of our model train experience has told us not to let anything conductive touch cross the center and outside rails. Every time a piece of wire, or a screwdriver, pliers, etc, touches those two rails, bad things happen. So to wire the TVS across the A, B, C,& D posts and the U posts on my ZW was a HARD thing to do. But I trust Bob N--he hasn't given me bad advice yet! If he lived closer, I'd buy him a
Thanks. I could be tempted if its not too far. Where do you live?
Maybe this could help you with the concept: Telephone lines have long used spark gaps for protection against lightning. They're just pieces of carbon separated by a little air space. But, when lightning puts a high voltage across that gap, an arc happens, conducting the current around the telephone and limiting the voltage to something the telephone can stand.
The TVS does the same thing, but at a lower and more predictable voltage. Until a high voltage spike occurs, the TVS, like the air gap in the telephone protector, doesn't conduct current at all. When the spike voltage rises above what is normal for the circuit, that is, a few dozen volts, the TVS conducts (through the magic of semiconductors--there is no arc inside it) and shunts current around the train, limiting the voltage to something the train can stand.
Maybe a mechanical railroad analogy is useful: A railroad car sits on center bearings at the middle of its trucks. These are not very large; but they keep the car balanced and upright normally. But, if the train goes over rough or unlevel trackwork, the car can rock from side to side. To keep it from tipping over, there are "side bearings", often no more than chunks of metal on the sides of the car body and the truck. These don't normally touch; but, if the car tips more than a little, the small gap between the side bearing pieces closes up and keeps the car more or less upright.
An automobile also has stops on its suspension, rubber blocks or heavy woven straps that keep the wheels from moving more than a certain distance up or down from the body of the car. As long as you drive on a reasonably smooth road, they do nothing. But, if you hit a really big bump or pothole, they keep the suspension from being ripped off the car.
i guess if i wanted to i could open up my zw & just put them inside of it? might or might not, i have to get some small circuit breakers anyhow. so, i have some wiring to hide anyways. thanks everyone.
by the way, my atlas track came in today. it looks great. the only real drawback i can see is the connectors. it looks like they might get soldered just to avoid a future problem. if they would have made the ties a little thinner to help lower the track just a little it would have been great. no real complaints though other than a lionel 1666e that won't run on it because of the e unit cycling constantly. the same little engine does it on real trax too, but put it on lionel tubular track & it runs like a champ. any ideas on that one? i might just make another post out of that one.
Inside the ZW is a very reasonable place to put them. The other extreme, inside the locomotive, is also good. In fact, there is no reason not to do both: Those in the transformer protect any locomotive, your own or a visitor's, on your layout. One in your locomotive protects it when running on someone else's layout.
In response to aflyer...
As I recall, the ZW-R uses a solid core, rather than one made of laminated strips of metal. Not sure if that has any electrical implications for the purposes of the operator. Externally, they should be the same.
I am not a flyer guy myself, but IIRC flyer trains cannot use the built-in whistle controls on the Lionel transformers. So, you might want to consider getting a Z rather than a ZW. The Z has four outputs but no whistle controls; it delivers up to 25 volts on each output; and it is much less popular (and therefore probably cheaper) than the ZW. However, the Z is just a box--it does not have the classic "football" shape.
The later model also has a laminated magnetic circuit. The difference is that it is riveted together, which was probably intended to make it quieter. The magnetic circuit of an AC device, like a transformer, must not allow currents to be induced, even if it is made of a conductive material like iron. A little insulation between the laminations accomplishes this.
nickaix,
Thanks for the explanation, the Model R is obviously quite a different transformer. I like the idea of the 4 train controls, and I could also use the horn in my Lionel AF EP5.
But I do have a assortment of AF transformers, an 18b, 19b, two 16b's and two 15b's. So I should probably stick with what I have. I did want to get educated on the ZW, and I appreciate your assistance there.
nitro man,
Check for an accumulation of dirt on the wheels of your 1666. Atlas track rails have a different shape than tubular track, and so the contact area on the wheels is different. Ditto the pickup rollers.
well i learned something tonight. the lionel track i've got has a taller center rail than that of the outside rails. the mth & atlas track has a taller center rail as well, but not as tall as the lionel tubular track. after i seen that i bent the sliders down just a little & now it runs like a champ on the atlas track. i would really like to put roller pick ups on the little old engine, but i'm not sure it can be done.
i bought ten of the TVSs for my upcoming layout. i got a very good deal on them at .48 cents each. with the ten i bought & shipping was $11.53 total. all the other places was going to charge around $10.00 just for shipping. i just thought i would share this with y'all.
http://www.talonix.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=8299
Jim i like this best i have 3 275 watt going to replace them all this way thanks
Shhhh!!!
Have the KWs. Quite workable(repairable), simple circuitry, nothing fancy.
They just work when you need the CURRENT ( no pun intended!!)
How complicated is it to replace the power cord in the ZW 275? I noticed that the terminal is way at the bottom of the transformer. I am afraid I will have extra parts left over if I take all that stuff out to change it. Am I making this more complicated than it should be?
Thanks,
Kevin
Can't stop working on the railroad!
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