G'day Gents!
The final touch to the Illinois Central - some drumheads and that's it for me 'til tomorrow . . .
Noted CM3 Shane 'n Pete stopped by - Customer Acknowledgments on Monday!
Enjoy!
Tom
USE THE REFRESH/RELOAD feature to get the MOST CURRENT POSTS!!
Good afternoon Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.
Have been "oitside" all day today (started abt 6:00 a.m. and will be on Monday. Then will be around Tuesday and ooffline W-Th and part of Friday - 'tis that time of the year.
I have noted down folks' questions and will reply ASAP which will probably be on Tueday.
DL sorry to hear about the circumstances of your trip; never an easy situation.
OSP - The UP drumheads were all ined up in 4 rows of 4 on my screen - gotta love it!
Work safe
Special mention for DL: Sorry to learn of the circumstances regarding your trip to Toronto. Condolences to you and yours from your friends here at the bar . . . Safe journey both ways!
Found some drumheads for the Union Pacific, but it appears that with this "new" Forums formatting change that took place last year, they will all be lined up vertically. <boo hiss> Maybe one day I'll figure out how to over come this latest "glitch" . . . but, here goes!
Next round of Customer ACKNOWLEDGMENTS from me will be Monday!
Boris, ring the bell - Ruth, give 'em a drink on the house!
Hello Tom and all in
Quick pint of Harvey's bitter please.
Sorry not been in much - just had a lot to do recently. Anyway I'm just about to prepare to cross the pond, but sadly this is at short notice due to a family bereavement I'll be heading for Toronto for a few days. Not sure if the arrangments will permit time for some GO train travel, but maybe a trip down to Union to see the Budds on The Canadian might be acheived. Family will come first of course as one would expect at these occasions. Just got to put up with the grim thought of 8 hours of jet engine and no room to move to start off with.
I'll certainly be availing myself of the TTC though - one of the world's best transit orgs in my view.
Sorry not to acknowledge other posts but I'm in rather a hurry to get the train as the first leg of my journey. Good wishes to you all though. If i find a puter I'll try and check the bar!
Regards
DL
<from my personal collection>
Reasons "things" happen!
Law of Mechanical Repair:
As soon as your hands are coated with grease your nose will begin to itch or you'll have to pee.
Law of the Workshop:
Any tool, when dropped, will roll to the least accessible corner.
Law of Probability:
The probability of being watched is directly proportional to the stupidity of the act.
Friday and the end of the work week (for many). A great time for that pick-me-up cuppa Joe, a pastry or two from The Mentor Village Bakery and a <light> or <traditional> breakfast from the Menu Board!
Changes: Morning acknowledgments will be provided on Monday - Wednesday ‘n Friday. Also, I'll be scarce on Saturdays too - however, the ENCORE! Saturday ‘n Photo Posting Day will continue with Cindy, Leon ‘n Boris attending to things ‘round here as usual.
Customer ACKNOWLEDGMENTS (since my last narrative):
CM3 Shane at 10:12 AM Wednesday: Some fine material on the IC . . . always interesting to trace the "lineage" from original road to final destination . . . takes effort and it is appreciated! That's one of the "things" I really enjoy with my RDC book, as there's so much in it regarding the transfers, rebuilds and the like. Of course, it is sorely out of date and an update would surely be helpful in the form of an addendum. Guess there's no market for such things . . .
Chicago - "flappers" and the IC - sez a lot, eh <grin>
Getting close to having to fill up the wagon and that should be great fun with a 20 gallon tank . . . <arrrrgggghhhh> Been trying to do it at half-tank mark these days (daze); eases the sting.
Many thanx for the quarters, round ‘n visit!
Pete at 2:03 PM Wednesday: Given all you've been through since your last visit on Friday, I'd say it's time for a well-deserved break! Have a couple on me, Mate! Ruth, fill ‘er up and give the man the snack trays too. <grin> Without you, Doug ‘n Rob, this has been some lousy week. If not for the consistency from Eric ‘n Shane, I might've just closed up the joint . . . Mike saved the day for us on Tuesday late afternoon I should add.
When I first arrived in these parts it amazed me just how many people live on river's edge. Simply amazed me. They get flooded out, they return, they get flooded out, they return . . . and so forth. Then when I was placed in charge of overseeing the flood relief ops for the 22 state area of navigable waterways, my amazement turned to astonishment. Cities and towns were at river's edge! Not really a phenomena so much as taking a turn on the "wheel" against Mother Nature. Happens world wide. I can recall one of my crews having to explain to a family that we couldn't take their TV, chickens or pigs into the flood punts, only people. Of course family pets came too, even if it wasn't "policy." But rivers don't rise as tidal waves and tsunamis tend to do. There's plenty of time to get a move on - they just don't, or won't. Astonishing, eh These are the things books are made from . . . well maybe short stories! <grin>
The Missouri Pacific RR had a branch line running from Jefferson City to Bagnell (45 miles or so). Long gone now and there's a bit of info in the Ether - but hardly enough to get a handle on. Just do a search on MoPac Bagnell branch line and you'll get some "hits."
Appreciated the phone call of last evening . . . at least you and your bride haven't lost your sense of humor (humoUr)!! Emails have been sent to you all week - some Rendezvous ‘stuff' out today as well.
Glad you made it "in" and hope to see ya a bit more before your departure for the Rendezvous! Less than a week from today . . .
James at 8:46 PM Wednesday: Went on a trip to see model trains and DIDN'T bring a camera!?!?!?! Although that's NOT a <tweetable> oh-fence ‘round here, it should be! <geesh>
That trolley in KCity's Union Station is out in the area that used to handle the westbound trains. And yes, restored quite well.
Hope to see ya a bit more often . . .
Eric at 12:04 AM Thursday: Cab shots are outstanding! I'm sure they bring back some great memories for you . . .
We can only hope that things pick up ‘round here, but practically speaking - ain't gonna happen soon. May-June is gonna be ruff . . . <groan>
The countdown is "on" for the Rendezvous as we're into the single digits!
CM3 Shane at 10:03 AM Thursday: Continuing info on the sleepers of the IC by way of other roads . . . good conversation, humor, and of course - quarters ‘n a round!
Flooding in these parts considerably lessened by the breaking of the levees up river. Many of those are "private" as opposed to ACoE constructed. Farm and ranchlands under water in many places to the west of us. Still nothing like the floods of 1993 - thankfully.
Pete at 3:35 PM ‘n 3:42 PM Thursday: Back with a Wolfman inclusive, informative ‘n interesting Post!
According to the 1956 (August) Official Guide of the Railways, the Wabash had stations at St. Charles, Gilmore, Mexico, Thompson, Centralia, Clark, Moberly, Salisbury, Brunswick, Carrollton, Norborne, Hardin, Henrietta, Camden and North Kansas City between downtown St. Louis and Kansas City. In addition, there were many flag stops along the route . . . also a spur to Columbia.
Yeah, ain't hard to find the book covers ‘n RR ads - lotsastuff out there via the search engines . . . glad the boyz like ‘em!
Good morning Captain Tom and Gentlemen!!
Early Friday morning! Leon, how about... no, I'll just have a cup of coffee! Black! Thank you! No, you keep the change.
Nice to have Pete back! I didn't believe he would notice I had the last danishes the other day. It seems liek he has everything under control!
CM3 – Spring? We have more like summer here, 103° F today. Warmer tomorrow/today (Friday) and Saturday. Did IC buy sleeping cars in 1965!? For how long did they run passenger trains? Did they still hope to make money on it or was it more a kind of desperate thing? Thanks for the info!Comments are fine, especially if you can’t spell that other word! Your comment about “Paoli Local” and "Lots of $ in that part of the world" made me curious. Have I missed something?Tom – Nice posters/ads!! I took the train to the Canyon in 1992. I wonder where those pictures are. I like “The Chief Way”! That is a very good one!Pete – I don’t know if my camera will be back before my trip next Wednesday. And I certainly can’t go without a camera. I have a bad feeling I have to buy a new one. To make it less expensive I have offered the company to buy my old one. Bad news, the streetcars in Hamburg don’t run any more! As far as I know they do not have any streetcars at all today. The water tower was not converted, the diesel fuel is kept in the tank on the ground next to the tower. I know I wasn’t very clear about that. The Swedish State Railways bought the WD locomotives from the Netherlands in 1953. They were taken out of service and put in storage in the 1960’s. 1931 had WD number 79257 and was built by Vulcan Foundry in 1944. When I compare these numbers with the numbers on the site you linked to something is obviously wrong. The difference is that 1930 and 1931 have switched identities on one of the sites. I don’t know which one is correct.
I found one of my pictures from the trip to Grand Canyon! I know I have shown it before, but I don't care.
Eric
RUTH Get TOM a beer for those great Santa Fe posters I have just caught.
The painting on the "Chief Way" is simply brilliant. Many thanks for sharing.
Pete
Hi Tom and all.
Well what a welcome from BORIS and the mascots. RUTH get them all the treats LARS usually gets, as I see Eric had the last two Danishes the other night. After the last few days I had better have a Batham's XXX and of course a round.
Not a full house of customers at the bar, since Friday but some great posts.
ERIC It will be good to see your photos of the model railcars when you can get the camera fixed. I think the British railbuses of German origin were new when the came to Britain and did not work on the German Railways.
Many thanks for the great photos. I suppose those Hamburg Streetcars from 1970 have been replaced now or are they still at work do you know. It is great that they still kept the original shape of that fine looking water tower, in the roundhouse pic, when it was converted to hold diesel fuel. Lovely shot of the old 600mm gauge steam loco.
Good to hear that there are still some FP9s still in regular service.
I well remember seeing the 1993 floods on the Mississippi and the Missouri Rivers on the BBC TV news at the time, little thinking I would be in the area some years later. The bride was at Rocheport MO, a small town on the KATY trail, filling and positioning sandbags around buildings in the town. I have not heard of them calling for volunteers here in Jeff City.
The WD locomotives, known to us spotters as "Dub- Dees", were introduced in 1943 for the Ministry of Supply known as "Austerity" locomotives. Mr. Riddles who previously had been 2nd in command to Sir W.A. Stanier in the LMS Locomotive Department, in two forms a 2-8-0 and a 2-10-0 designed them. After the war the newly formed British Railways purchased 733 of the 2-8-0s and 25 of the 2-10-0s, although 200 of the 2-8-0 locos had been bought by the LNER before the nationalisation of the railways in 1948. The 2-8-0s weighed 70 ¼ tons with a Tractive Effort of 34,215lb and the 2-10-0s weighed 78 ¼ tons with the same T.E.
The loco that is now 90733 was one of the WDs that worked on the Netherlands Railways, she was one of two locos of the class that went to Sweden to work on the SJ, the locos numbers on the SJ were 1930 and 1931. After working in Sweden the locos was part of the strategic reserve and were kept in full working order. In the early 1970s No 1931 was saved, although her sister loco was cut up before it could be saved for another preserved line in England.
No 1931 was modified in Sweden including a better cab and the tender shortened to fit on to the Swedish turntables, 90733 has had been rebuilt in to the condition of the WDs that ran on BR.
Here is a link with more detail on 1931/90733, it is half way down the page, and details the changes made to the loco.
http://www.kwvr.co.uk/stockbook/index.htm
I was lucky enough to travel behind 1931 on the K&WVR when she ran on that line; I think I have a slide of her in steam as 1931.
I don't think any of the WD 2-10-0s, that were BR engines, were saved but an example of the class that was always an Army loco has been saved and at present is a static exhibit on the Severn Valley Railway although the loco, named Gordon (after a General I believe) and painted in Longmoor Military Railway blue, was a popular engine when it worked on the SVR.
I did take a couple of pics of the old depots we found on the line to Bagnal, I will try to find the book with a description of the line, it is an interesting read.
Many thanks for the great photos from the cab.
CM3 Yes I well remember that line from the Untouchables.
Many thanks for the details of the Illinois Central cars and that wonderful menu from The Panama in 1969 what a great selection, it made me think, that I don't recall anyone telling me in of a great menu served aboard an aircraft.
I had not heard the term GE "Pooches" before.
Many thanks for the info on Mike's links.
Your right about the plumbers, the only thing worse than them coming is them not coming when you need them; luckily the ones we had were good. The only thing what is making us mad is our problem was not due to natural causes but one that should never have happened, but hopefully it is behind us now.
MIKE Many thanks for the very informative article on the Penn-Central merger. Great links. Like the photo of the UP train leaving Chicago. Unfortunately that great video link with the Amtrak F40s, like Eric, I was without sound.
JAMES Glad you had a good time at Minneapolis that certainly is a great model layout in the link.The National Railway Museum in England has had Bachmann produce a limited edition of only 25 of the Flying Scotsman in O gauge, to help the Scotsman's restoration, at about $2,500 each, but I dare say they will appreciate in value..
A link to the model
http://www.nrm.org.uk/flyingscotsman/model.asp
TOM It was good to talk with you on the phone real pity about Amtrak, and the weather was real good that day as well.
Not much happenin' 'round here or over on "my other Thread." Thought a few Santa Fe ads might liven up things at the bar . . . Acknowledgments on Friday . . .
Good Morning Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.
It's another pretty day in the coalfields. The oak trees are just now starting to leaf out which is a sure sign that spring may be here for real as they are the last trees to come out.
Let's do some more with our IC sleeping car project. Today, we'll look at former NKP 10/6 cars and the 10/5 cars that came over from the New York Central
The former NKP cars came to the Illinois Central in 1965. They were all "City" series cars on the Nickel Plate which were renamed by their new owner.
City of Toledo r/n Calumet
City of Buffalo r/m Canton
City of St. Louis r/n Central City
City of Indianapolis r/n Chandensson
City of Lorain r/n Charles City
City of Peoria r/n Cook County
City of Findlay r/n Council Bluffs
City of Lima r/n Cynthia
The NYC 10 roomette/5 double bedroom cars were purchased in 1958 by the IC They were all "Cascade" series cars on the NYC which got renamed by the IC.
Cascade Channel r/n Decatur
Cascade Green r/n Destrehan
Cascade Summit r/n Durant
Cascade Wonder r/n Dyersburg
In 1950, the IC bought five 10/6 cars from Pullman. These included:
Cairo
Carbondale
Centralia
Champaign
Covington
I went out and looked on some of the book sites for Stover's History of the Illinois Central which I mentioned yesterday. It is o/p but available at a wide range of prices.
Now for a few commets - can't spell acknowledgements.
OSP provided some Santa Fe material with drumheads - always appreciated.
Pete - Hope you are not having to still use life jackets in the house; plumbers, even under the best of circumstances, are never welcomed visitors - nothing personal, it just implies problems with water which is never a good thing. There has been a lot of coverage on the news here re flooding in your section - we have unbelievable floods in WV every so often which are exacerbated (how's that, Boris?) by the terrain around here.
James stopped by for a visit - good to hear from you.
Eric sent us some interesting pictures. Enlarge the first one and check pout the signals. PRR installation with upgraded track. The third one is a good one as well - hooping them up at the fabled location of the "Paoli Local." Lot's of $ in that part of the world, for sure.
Good evening Captain Tom and Gentlemen!!
Leon, nice to see you this beautiful evening! A ham sandwich for me, please! How are things going? Slow? Don't worry, it will pick up again!
Nice to see some more guests today!
Tom – I am sure it is life and circumstances. I mean that it is a very slow period here at the bar right now. and that I am sure it get more busy again soon! Hopefully I will get a chance to look for remnants of the train station and righ-of-way, etc. at Yellowstone next year. And take pictures of whatever I might find. F40 pulling or being pushed by the X2000? Hmm, I guess the correct answer is that F40 pulled or pushed X2000. The diesels could be controlled from the X2000 cab car so on all demo runs the diesels were pushing the X2000 in front of them. I did some research but could not find any info about any connection between the Challenger train and Challenger, the steam locomotive. UP’s site did not mention anything. I also prefer Willie Nelson’s version of the “City of New Orleans”. I remember it was very popular in 1984, when I heard him sing it for the first time. Some older posters/ads for Illinois Central! The Road of Luxuray Travel. They look like they (the ads) were created in the 30’s. Thanks for the SF info! I like their drumheads! CM3 – The gas price is the only thing I don’t like about my trip next week! But I actually saw one gas station here tonight where the price went down 2 cents, from $3.11 to $3.09!!! It will probably go upp twice as much tomorrow though. Thanks for the info on the IC cars! Yes, we had a clear signal when I took that picture. But we were not running very fast, just normal speed. Pete – Looking forward to hear the story about your house and the plumbers! Did you take any pictures of theold depots along the old railroad to Bagnall? I think you should write something about what you will find out about that railroad and add the pictures you (hopefully) took! James – Welcome back! But how could you go to that O scale model railroad without a camera? I think the Captain should do something about that! Maybe some more cleaning of Boris’ shed? Interesting layout, concentrated on the Twin Cities! O-scale is real nice, allows a lot of details.
Approaching 30th Street Station, Philadelphia
Getting orders at Paoli, PA.
G-day Tom and all present!
Leon- I need a good coffee and a turkey sandwich. Thanks!
Well, my trip to Minneapolis was a good one. I didn't bring a camera so I am unable to show you the O scale model railroad I saw. There is a place called Bandana Square where the Northern Pacific performed all work on there passenger cars. Now it has been changed to a bunch or doctor offices and other small businesses and an O scale Model railroad. http://www.tcmrm.org/index.html Here you can visit the model railroad. It's a very impressive layout. I'm glad my dad likes O scale!!
I will begin the acknowledgements on page 57 and work my way back.
Eric- Nice picture of the Deutsche Reichs Bahn. No wonder they call them railbuses.. they look like them. And few more nice pics from Germany. Those street cars look really nice. Also a nice looking roundhouse there. Is that little round tower for watering the locomotives Thanks for sharing.
Oh my!! An F40 on an Amtrak train.. You certainly don't see that now a days. That also reminds me, I saw Amtrak this weekend at about 11:00 pm on Monday in Minneapolis, heading west. What a cool train.
Oops. Do you think the river over flowed a little. Hmmm To bad the house was hit. Hope there weren't any model trains in the basement..
Tom- Some really interesting looking pictures of that trolley sitting out in back/ front (which ever). Someone took some time and money to restore that back to it's good looking self. Unless it came that way? Thanks for sharing.
And then some nice looking book covers about the UP. Usually Lars gets that but he must be off and running at the moment. But appreciate the work you put into all of this. That steam excursion book looked really good. And some nice advertisements to go along with the UP.
And a few more nice looking book and video covers on the Illinois Central. When Pentrex has a movie it's usually quite good. I have a pretty big collection of there movies. And also a nice few advertisements to go along with the IC. Thanks
And some Fallen flag material to keep this place going. The Santa Fe is one of those railroads that just sparked the love in Children, including me. It was a fascinating railroad indeed.
Mike- You have been busy! Nice little article you had there along with the pictures. Also really liked the video you provided. Some interesting things you had there. Thanks for sharing.
CM3- Thanks for the info on the sleeping cars the IC bought. Interesting to read that they got most of the cars from the C&O, New York Central, and Nickel plate. Thanks for sharing.
Happy railroading
James
HI Tom and all.
Back again after a rather bad few days here at the house. Still the plumbers are finishing off so we should be back to normal soon or at least the house is inhabitable.The plumbers have been great and came as soon as we could contact them on Monday morning. Still it will make a story for the rendezvous.
Our trip on Amtrak was cancelled yesterday due to flooding, we had a look at the Missouri here last evening and it is well up moving fast with a lot of branches etc floating in the river. They said on the news today that it would crest about 10 feet above flood stage and will be the third highest, beating the 1995 level, but still well below the 1993 floods. Instead of Amtrak we followed through the small towns,that a long ago railroad used to serve between here and Bagnall, some of the depots are still standing I will have to find out some more about this line, as a local Historian has written a piece about it.
Well RUTH a pint of Batham's and a round for all while I catch up on the posts I have missed.
Pete.
The Passenger Railroad Fallen Flags of "Our" Place #14 Santa FE - Passenger operations (AT&SF)
A form of this was initially Posted on Page 125 of the original Threadsource: Classic American Railroads
Caveat: The information provided is NOT all inclusive and is reflective only of the periods mentioned.
Santa Fe (AT&SF)
Headquarters: Chicago, Il Mileage: 1950: 13,074 including subsidiaries 1995: (prior to merger with Burlington Northern): 9,126 Locomotives in 1963: Diesel: 1,855 Rolling stock in 1963: Freight cars: 84,439 Passenger cars: 1,235 Principal routes in 1950: Chicago-Los Angeles via Kansas City, MO. and La Junta, CO Emporia, KS-Galveston, TX via Oklahoma City, OK & Ft. Worth & Houston, TX Emporia, KS-Dalies, NM Barstow-Richmond, CA Temple-Farwell, TX Denver-LaJunta, CO Albuquerque, NM-El Paso, TX Dallas-Presidio, TX Kansas City-Tulsa Passenger trains of note: Super Chief (Chicago-Los Angeles) El Capitan (Chicago-Los Angeles) The Chief (Chicago-Los Angeles Grand Canyon (Chicago-Los Angeles The Scout (Chicago-Los Angeles) San Francisco Chief (Chicago-San Francisco, CA) Texas Chief (Chicago-Houston) San Diegan (Los Angeles-San Diego Tulsan (Kansas City-Tulsa) Chicagoan (Dallas-Kansas City-Chicago) Golden Gate (Los Angeles-San Francisco)
Drumheads
Enjoy! Tom
Good Morning Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please; round for the house, and $ for the jukebox. Another beautiful day here. Spent $15 for a ¼ tank of gas this a.m., but can we do?
Here's some more Illinois Central material re postwar sleeper purchases and rebuilds.
The IC purchased sleeping cars from several railroads. These included the C&O in 1950, the New York Central between 1958 and 1963, and the Nickel Plate in 1965. Today we'll look at cars from the C&O. This purchase included eight 10 roomette/6 double bedroom cars from the C&O's "City" series. The following gives the C&O name followed by the IC name.
"City of St. Joseph" r/n "Calvert"
"City of Fostoria" r/n "Chehanse"
City of Logan r/n "Clarksdale"
"City of Marion" r/n "Clifton"
"City of Benton Harbor" r/n "Cobden"
"City of Petoskey" r/n "Coles County"
"City of Montgomery" r/n "Corinth"
"City of Charleston r/n "Crystal Springs"
The NKP cars were all 10 roomette/6 db cars in that road's "City" series.
Other sleepers from the New York Central included eleven 4 compartment/4 double bedroom/2 drawing room cars. Two of them were former "Bridge" cars, and the rest all carried the "Imperial" prefix. These went to the IC between 1958 and 1963.
The IC, in 1958, acquired four 10 roomette/5 db cars from the NYC's "Cascade" series.
They also bought four "Bay" series 22 roomette cars obtained from the Central in 1960.
As a personal note, I always liked the 10/5 cars as they had a little more space in the roomettes.
The IC also rebuilt sleepers into postal cars. These carried IC #s 150-160. Four of these cars were originally NYV "Bay" series sleepers, and the rest came from the IC. These rebuilds occurred between 1961 and 1965.
Last came three more former NYC "Bay" cars which the IC r/b to baggage/ express cars in 1961.
Eric stopped by with some comments. I agree with you on that UP poster, "The Train That Provides." Lovely layout, type face, and graphic design. I enlarged the picture you sent from old PRR. You have a clear signal for your track.
Mike sent some PC material. I'll talk more about that later as there is a lot to digest in your post. Suffice to say, it was an example of how not to do things.
Also thanks for the IC pictures. The first one is probably the Panama; whatever you do, don't look too close at the track.
The other one is either the last or next to the last "Panama" given the date. As for those lovely UP E units, "my, my." Uncle Pete and Uncle John both knew how to railroad - right up to the end.
OSP sent along IC books and videos. "Today's IC" is a nice two-video set. Also, if you can find it, take a look at Green Frog's "Illinois Central Odyssey." I already remarked about one of the UP posters. The IC one with the flappers in front of the Trib tower is an all-time favorite of mine. John Stover's History of the Illinois Central is probably the best one volume account out there, although I do have a cy. of Corliss's IC book which was done back in the late 40s.
It's nearly time to go check out what we have in the dinner bucket. Hot soup, roast beef sandwich, a couple of apples, and a handful of cookies - not bad. See, Boris, you have breakfast early; you get to have lunch early, too.
Here are some advertisements for the Illinois Central from days long gone!
Wednesday's Witticism
A loud mouth and a shallow brain go well together.
Mid-week brings another opportunity to join us for a <light> or <traditional> breakfast from the Menu Board - fresh pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery and of course our home brewed coffee <light> or <regular>!
CM3 Shane at 10:30 AM Monday: Good "skinny" on the F40s . . . "He's in the car," is perhaps the best one-liner of the movie, "The Untouchables." Noted that "Long Gone" is not yet available on DVD - but I'm on the "list" to be notified when it is!
Quarters, round ‘n visit much appreciated!
Eric at 1:13 AM Tuesday: Now THAT's quite a looooooong time between customers, eh Makes one wonder where in are the guys who always seem to think "all's well" and so forth. Nice to know we have a couple of "dependables" around . . . Ah yes, life and circumstances, eh
In my first visit to Yellowstone it was by train (1953) and my memory has a rather rustic station for the park. Decades later, didn't see any remnants . . .
So, is the Amtrak F40 pulling the X2000 - OR - is the X2000 pushing Amtrak??? Just kidding! Nice foto . . .
If one is to believe what appears in Wikipedia, there's really no connection between the use of the name "Challenger" for the UPs passenger train and the locomotives of the same name. Check out the URL:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenger_(passenger_train)
Many thanx for the visit ‘n conversation!
CM3 Shane at 10:09 AM Tuesday: Some fine UP information along with a menu that tricked my "senses" into thinking it was time to dine! Nice work . . .
I see where this area has topped yours for petrol prices. Expected to rise even higher. Noted that SFran has it above four bucks . . . <arrrrgggghhh>
Again, appreciate the info, quarters ‘n round!
Mike at 5:46 PM Tuesday: A most welcomed contribution to the discussion of Classic Trains from Not-So-Silent-Mike!
Definitely think you are "right on" with the thought regarding the Santa Fe and their passenger trains. They surely knew how . . .
I'm sure Red P (Legion of the LONG Lost!) would have something to say regarding the <dratted ‘n dreaded> Penn Central.
That's quite a piece, chock full o' info regarding Stuart Saunders, the PC merger and the thinking at the time. Surely provides insights to the men and the times that shouldn't be forgotten. Many thanx - good selection! [
Really liked those IC ‘n UP passenger trains in the URLs!
Amtrak equipment, other than baggage car, hasn't changed much since then - at least ‘round here for the trains running between Chicago - St. Louis - Kansas City. <grin>
Eric at 11:59 PM Tuesday: Just made it "in" before mid-night! <grin>
The floods of 1993 were devastating here in mid-continent USA. When the levee gave way in Chesterfield Valley it filled like a bath tub. In short order there was 8 feet of water inundating businesses, farms, homes - everything. The problem back then was a sustained high level of water in the Missouri River - over a month. That coupled with high water in the Mississippi and Illinois Rivers all added to the problem - something we are not experiencing now. So this round of flooding is pretty much what we look upon as "typical" spring flooding.
Yes - it was the Illinois Central who ran the "City of New Orleans" - some lyrics from the song "Riding on the City of New Orleans, Illinois Central, Monday morning mail . . ." I always preferred the Willie Nelson version, whereas the "purists" go with Arlo Guthrie.
That Harrisburg line foto brings to mind that some decades past, those beautiful Pennsy passenger ran that route . . . <ahhhhhhhh>
Thanx for the visit ‘n conversation!
Reminder: Ruth has the bar from 9 AM until Leon the Night Man comes in at 5 PM ‘til closing. Tomorrow is Fish ‘n Chips Nite with servings beginning at 5 PM!
Cindy is now our Saturday bartender!
Boris, serve ‘em all of the "spiked" OJ they can handle!
Leon, I'll have a Cheese burger tonight! Curled fries, please. Yeah, coffee!
Not so many visits today but still a lot of info to read and pictures to look at! It seems like our 100+ degrees days will start on Thursday this week. It is going to be a long, hot summer.
CM3 – As I said, I think it was a very logic guess you did about that Amtrak train! If I understand this correct it was the Illinois Central that was running the “City of New Orleans” from the beginning! I learned something new again. Interesting info! They really got a nice dinner for $9.85 in 1965! Thanks for the drink!Tom – Wow, gas in your area is more expensive than here! So Amtrak has to “bus” passengers? I remember the 1993 flooding, it was real bad. In the picture below is a house sitting in the Mississippi River (almost) in 1993.
View from the train.Some very nice book covers! I like the one, Illinois Central Railroad”, with a very good looking locomotive on it. I like that paint scheme! Thanks for the drink! I also like those UP ads! Especially the second one from the top, “A Train Provides...” True!Mike – Thanks for the drun... drink! Wow, what an evening! I think you have a point there, about the Penn-Central merger. But I think the creation of Amtrak was a way for the government preparing to get rid of all long distance train in the future. A very interesting article on the Penn-Central merger! I did not know that Pennsy had a foothold in aviation! Obviously Saunders worked very hard to land the deal! He also wanted high speed trains Washington-New York, running at 150 mph. It took a little bit longer to get those trains up and running, but today Amtrak's Acela is doing it. Some nice pictures too! Plus an Amtrak video. I did not get the sound, but it was nice to see it anyway.
Westbound on the Harrisburg line!
Hi Tom and everyone, a round for the house
Thanks to Tom, Eric and CM3 for keeping things going. I envy you guys your travels.
Penn-Central merger is bad even now because it's failure more or less forced the creation of Amtrak in a hurry, with a structure designed I think to favor the interests of the railroads over the riding public. I bet maybe without it, Santa Fe would have run passenger trains for many years to come, not because they might have had to but because they were good at it.
Toward the 21st Century Ltd Time Magazine Jan. 26, 1968 http://www.time.com/
No green light flared from a track-side tower; no warning whistle echoed down the line. But no trainman missed the signal. When the Supreme Court gave its approval last week to the merger of the Pennsylvania and New York Central railroads, it was clearing the track for the nation's entire rail system. It was giving railroad management permission to highball into the future.
As Justice Abe Fortas read the 37-page opinion that put an end to ten years of frustrating negotiation and deliberation, the smile on the face of a chunky, balding spectator seemed to light up the marbled chamber. For Stuart Thomas Saunders, 58, the man who has already been picked to head the Pennsylvania New York Central Transportation Co., the court's 8-0 vote was a singular personal triumph.
It was Saunders, as chairman and chief executive officer of the Pennsylvania, who planned the tactics and organized the arguments that led to one of the largest mergers in corporate history. It was Saunders who held the pieces together during the frequent assaults from competitors concerned about the Penn Central's potential power; it was Saunders who won over dubious labor leaders, worried lest future economies lead to fewer jobs. Above all, it was Saunders, the lawyer-turned-railroader, who convinced the Interstate Commerce Commission and the Justice Department that both public interest and private good would be helped if two troubled rivals were allowed to operate as a unit, instead of continuing costly and wasteful competition. His victory was a victory for railroads across the country. For the court gave its approval to his philosophy that railroads must combine, that they must grow in size and decline in number if they are to serve their customers and survive.
Envious Hill or Harriman. Saunders will be working in tandem with the Central's President Alfred E. Perlman, 65, one of the best operating men in the business; and the two men will be managing a railroad empire to excite the envy of a Hill or a Harriman. The Penn Central will operate on 40,000 miles of track in 14 states and two Canadian provinces. It will run 4,200 locomotives, 195,000 freight cars, and 4,937 passenger cars. It will also be the nation's largest private landlord, with real estate holdings that include Park Avenue hotels and a Pittsburgh office building-apartment complex, a 25% share in the new Madison Square Garden, erected over the rebuilt Pennsylvania Station in New York City, resorts in Florida, parks in Texas and housing developments in California. The diversified corporation will have total assets of $6.3 billion, annual revenues of almost $2 billion, and tidy tax-loss credits from dismal years in the past that will help to improve net income for years to come. Most of all, in its plans and in its performance, Penn Central will be a prototype of the U.S. railroad of the future.
Saunders moved into the chairman's suite at Pennsy's Philadelphia headquarters only four years ago. He brought with him the bright reputation he had built as president of the Norfolk & Western, which he helped turn into one of the nation's most profitable railroads. He also brought a consuming energy that threatened to wear out associates. For he is a man who dotes on work. An average day includes twelve hours at the office, another three working at home-after which Saunders relaxes with a vengeance. He ordinarily takes a couple of double martinis before dinner, wine during the meal, and brandy plus two or three Scotches and soda afterward. Not long ago, at a reunion at Roanoke College, where Alumnus Saunders ('30) is now chairman of the trustees, a classmate told him: "You always were a lucky guy." Replied Saunders: "Yes, I suppose I was-but I have also noticed that the harder you work the luckier you get."
To work out his luck when he came to the Pennsy, Saunders had two major aims. One was to shake awake a slumbering, 121-year-old railroad that had stumbled onto hard times. Falling earnings and a high debt had led the road's conservative management to cut back on new spending; the Pennsy had hardly enough modern equipment to remain competitive. The new boss changed all that by allocating huge funds ($577 million in the last three years alone) for new equipment and by branching out into fields other than railroading. His other goal was to push through the merger with the New York Central, something that had been discussed and contemplated for years.
Tangled Midwest. To be sure, the merger trend among U.S. railroads is nothing new (see map). But the plans for the Penn Central were the most ambitious yet. As Saunders promoted them, his tireless determination seemed to promise eventual success. Inevitably, it gave new impetus to a growing roster of other corporate unions:
In the East, the coal-rich Norfolk & Western and the Chesapeake & Ohio-Baltimore & Ohio are moving toward a merger that will probably be consummated some time in 1970. The C. & O. took effective control of the B. & O. five years ago in a move that enabled the limping B. & O. to use C. & O. credit ratings to buy new equipment ($312 million worth last year). Together, the two lines achieved savings averaging $35 million annually. By merging with the Norfolk & Western, they estimate that they can save another $30 million a year. The merger would create a system every bit as affluent as the Penn Central. It would include the Nickel Plate and the Wabash, already owned by the Norfolk & Western, as well as the Erie Lackawanna, Delaware & Hudson, and Boston & Maine, which the ICC already has ordered the Norfolk & Western to absorb.
In the Midwest, where the railroad map is incredibly tangled, several efforts are under way to unsnarl it. The aggressive Chicago & North Western, run by Ben Heineman, has merger agreements worked out with the Chicago Great Western, and would like to include the Milwaukee Road. The Illinois Central and Gulf, Mobile & Ohio, with 9,200 miles of frequently parallel track, hope to merge too. The Missouri Pacific is anxious to take over the Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe. The three "Northerns"-the Great Northern, the Northern Pacific and the Burlington-have been given tentative ICC permission to combine lines that cover most of the territory between Chicago and the Pacific.
The Rock Island Line, an enticing property despite financial difficulties, has a plethora of suitors. Hoping to take all or part of the Rock Island over are the Union Pacific, Southern Pacific, Santa Fe, and Heineman's Chicago & North Western. - In the Southeast, the Atlantic Coast Line and Seaboard Air Line Railroad have already merged into the Seaboard Coast Line and expect to realize annual savings of $38.7 million. Meanwhile the Southern Railway, bothered by this increase in competition, has been shopping around for a partner.
In the West, where mergers are less urgent because rail routes are longer, highways fewer and profits greater, one small railroad is being assiduously courted. Both the Southern Pacific and the Santa Fe have attempted to acquire the Western Pacific, if only because its profits are steady and its route includes the easiest pass through the Sierra Nevada. So far, Western President M. M. Christy has turned down all offers.
Sustained Sentiment. The man who is slated to preside over the Penn Central, fittingly enough, is the man who started the merger trend. It was Saunders, as president of the Norfolk & Western, who arranged for the takeover of the Virginian Railway in 1959 and laid the groundwork for the N. & W. to acquire the Nickel Plate and the Wabash. Born in McDowell, W. Va., Saunders grew up in Bedford, Va., within sight and sound of the N. & W.'s main line through the coal fields. He attended college in the town where the N. & W. has its headquarters. Even after he was graduated from Harvard Law School and set up a practice in Washington, Saunders retained his sentimental attachment to the region. In 1939, he and his wife Dorothy jumped at the chance to return to Roanoke when Saunders was offered a job in the legal department of the N. & W. There he made himself so valuable that he moved up steadily until he was finally named president in 1958. In that job, he left operating problems mostly to subordinates, concentrated on mergers and finance.
Saunders' performance at the N. & W. impressed the Pennsylvania Railroad directors, who, at that time, held 33% of the N. & W.'s stock. A delegation from the Pennsy, headed by Pittsburgh Banker Richard Mellon, called on Saunders in Roanoke to of fer him the opportunity of running the nation's largest railroad. Saunders accepted without hesitation. When he moved to Philadelphia, he took along a cadre of N. & W. executives who are still known around headquarters as the "Virginia Mafia." Before long the Mafiosi had eased 550 oldtimers into retirement. Almost nothing about the Pennsy remained untouched. Saunders, who collects cookbooks as a hobby, even hired a new chef for the executive dining room, ordered him not to serve diet lunches.
He did much more than change menus. Besides making huge investments in equipment and rolling stock, he really began to diversify. He concluded the purchase of the Buckeye pipeline, which threads for 8,000 miles through eight states in the East and South. Today, Buckeye ownership makes the railroad the principal supplier of jet fuel to Kennedy International Airport through a pipeline laid under New York harbor. Already well-stocked with real estate through its rail-related holdings, the Pennsy spent some $80 million to get more. It bought into Arvida Corp., Great Southwest Corp. and Macco Realty Co., which deal in real estate in California, Texas and Florida. Through its subsidiaries, the Pennsy is now developing Rancho California, an 87,500-acre residential project near Los Angeles; it is opening industrial and recreational parks in the Dallas and Fort Worth area, and it operates the Boca Raton Hotel and Club in Florida.
Unique Position. Saunders also bought a 57% interest in Executive Jet Aviation, a young company organized to provide charter service to businessmen. Among other advantages, Executive Jet gives the Pennsy a foothold in aviation and a start toward what Saunders calls a "total transportation company." For such investments the Pennsy has a large kitty. From its sale of the Long Island Railroad to New York State in 1966, and from the gradual disposal of its shares in the N. & W. and its 98.5% interest in the Wabash, the Pennsy had about $500 million to spend, still has around $107 million unallocated. "We are," says Saunders with some understatement, "in a rather unique position to pursue diversification."
For all the advantages of diversification, Saunders always looked upon consolidation with the New York Central as his most important project. The two lines were in the process of beating each other into bankruptcy. As early as 1957, merger talks had started between Saunders' Pennsy predecessor, James M. Symes, and the Central's Robert Young. Then, after Young committed suicide in 1959, he was succeeded at the Central by Perlman, an M.I.T. graduate who was with the Denver & Rio Grande before Young brought him back East. As it happened, Perlman was most reluctant to couple with the Pennsy, and Saunders had a tough time persuading him that it would be a good deal for both companies.
In his talks with Perlman, Saunders pursued a policy of not letting the opposition polarize. But keeping the opposition unpolarized was a herculean task; there was almost too much to keep track of. ICC examiners studying the Penn Central merger proposal, traveled to 18 cities, took 40,000 pages of conflicting testimony from 461 witnesses in 128 days. Nearly 350 lawyers have thus far been involved. Aside from legal tribulations (their case went to the Supreme Court twice and lower courts five times) the prospective partners have had to overcome objections from both labor and Government.
First, as far as Saunders was concerned, came labor. At one point during the ICC hearings, a railroad spokesman had glowingly boasted that the merger would enable the lines to get rid of some 7,800 employees. Officials and members of the 24 railroad brother hoods reacted with understandable concern. In an industry where management and labor rarely meet except in the hostile atmosphere of the bargaining room, Saunders began seeking out union leaders for informal talks. "I knew I had to change labor's position," he says. "My argument with the leaders was: 'This is really in the interest of your people. Merger means better earnings, which mean better savings, more business and more jobs. I can only get these savings with your cooperation.' " As a more practical matter, Saunders also promised the unions that no one would be fired because of the merger; only as jobs become vacant because of retirement or death will the Penn Central cut down on employees.
Next came the Justice Department, which strongly opposed the merger on the ground that it would lessen competition among Eastern railroads. Saunders brought the Government lawyers over to his side by agreeing to absorb the bankrupt New Haven. Perlman and the Central had said that they would not take the New Haven under any circumstances. "But it was apparent," says Saunders, "that the New Haven provided the factor needed to get the merger through: an urgent public interest."
One of Saunders' main efforts was to cultivate Lyndon Johnson. A lifelong Democrat, the ambitious railroad man made himself available for public statements approving almost all Johnson Administration policies-from Viet Nam to tax increases. "I could not have gotten the merger through without help from members of the Administration," Saunders says frankly. Then, in a masterpiece of understatement, he adds: "They got the Justice Department to change its thinking." It was significant that Saunders, while celebrating his Supreme Court victory in a Washington dining room last week, received a congratulatory personal telephone call from the President.
Without Illusions. While Saunders was maneuvering so skillfully toward merger, an unexpected problem arose: the New York Central began making noises about backing out of the deal. Elated by rising profits in 1966, Perlman announced that the Central appeared to be "recession-proof" and might not have to merge in order to prosper. Saunders paid calls on Central directors, pointed out that their line, unlike the Pennsy, was not widely diversified; he warned that a dip in the general economy would cause the Central painful headaches. Last year's mini-recession proved Saunders right. Rail returns for the less diversified Central during the nine months figured so far showed a $2,640,000 deficit, while Pennsy earnings held up substantially better. Suddenly the Central's merger enthusiasm revived.
Now only ragtag ends of the complicated corporate battle remain to be resolved. But Saunders labors under no illusions about the future. "The Pennsy itself," he says, "is a tough property to operate." The Penn Central will be a lot tougher. Pennsy President Allen J. Greenough, 62, whose title in the company is still unsettled, puts it even more strongly. "This is a big dog with a lot of fleas," says Greenough. "We'll be scratching for a long time."
To ease the itch, 40 representatives of both the Pennsylvania and the Central have planned together for many months. They worked in neutral territory-offices of the consulting firm of McKinsey & Co. The first sessions were stiffly formal, but even though some Central executives fear that they will be frozen out of key jobs by their opposite numbers at the dominant Pennsy, the atmosphere soon thawed.
More than 3,000 major merger problems have been discussed. One of the first projects was to take an inventory of all the equipment on both roads, from diesel engines down to dining-car flatware. A unified purchasing system for 180,000 kinds of hardware should save $750,000 a year. Altogether, eventual savings from combined operations should be at least $80 million a year. Plans have been made to eliminate about 1,000 miles of duplicate tracks, and computers were called into service to help decide upon the best routes. With a choice of two main lines from Chicago to the Northeast, for example, the computers found that the Central's water-level route would be much more economical than the Pennsy tracks that ascend nearly 3,000 feet over the mountains of western Pennsylvania. Connecting links between Pennsy and New York Central tracks are being rushed at Toledo, Grand Rapids, Cincinnati, Terre Haute, Chicago, Buffalo and Detroit. Freight yards at Cleveland and Indianapolis will be modernized, and an entire new yard-to be named after Perlman-is being built at Albany. The basic idea is to take advantage of the savings that through-freight operations can provide. "The speed factor is vital," says Perlman. "If goods are in transit for four days, someone has to have them on the books for four days. Any reduction in time that we can make will be beneficial."
Flying the Colors. Hundreds of problems remain to be settled. One immediate difficulty was deciding upon a new emblem to replace the red and gold keystone of the Pennsy and the olive, black and white oval of the Central. "Red and green together are too psychedelic," explains a Pennsy vice president in charge of paints. Last week, therefore, Saunders and Perlman inspected four freight cars that have been painted in various combinations of browns, greys, blues and greens, and now will decide which to adopt. When "M Day" (for Merger Day) takes place-with luck on Feb. 1 and almost certainly by March 1-the first order of business will be a meeting of the 25 directors of the combined lines.
Of these, 14 will come from the Pennsy and eleven from the Central. They will elect Saunders to be chairman and chief executive officer of the Penn Central and Perlman to be president and chief administrative officer. Even at that, it will be at least eight years before the two roads are completely integrated.
Small Succor. Long before then, freight should be moving faster and more efficiently than ever. But passengers will receive small succor from the merger. The benighted commuters of the New Haven will, to be sure, benefit from new equipment made possible by an infusion of money required by the ICC as part of the Penn Central deal. But the Pennsy lost $54 million last year on passenger service, while the Central dropped $25 million. And neither line is anxious to fritter away more cash. Says Saunders ominously: "We are studying all our passenger operations and will be forced, I am sure, to initiate at an early date a far-reaching program to adjust passenger service to actual public needs."
But even as the Penn Central prepares to cut back regular passenger service, it is forging ahead with a fleet of high-speed passenger trains. The railroad has committed $45 million of its own money, in addition to $11 million in Department of Transportation funds, to lay high-speed track between New York City and Washington and to buy ultramodern trains to make the run.
Already tested, the high-speeds will cruise at up to 150 m.p.h.; they promise to cut Washington-New York running times from nearly 4 hours to 2 hours and 18 minutes. Speed, plus such amenities as direct-dial telephones, good food and common courtesy, may win back shuttle passengers whose elapsed airplane time-commuting trips to and from airports-will at least be equaled by midcity to midcity railroad runs.
The high-speeds will spread no farther than densely populated corridors, for the long-distance (more than 200 miles) passenger train is already disappearing down the track to oblivion. "The railroads," says Saunders, "simply cannot compete with jets, to say nothing of supersonics." The Pennsy's boss is equally adamant that Government should support shorter-haul commuter service with subsidies. Says he: "The U.S. Government is spending virtually nothing to assist 73 million people to get to and from their jobs, while putting up $25 billion to send three men to the moon."
No railroad man anywhere disagrees. Western Pacific President Christy announced last week that his road will make another effort to drop the California Zephyr next month. "You can't run a long-distance passenger service on nostalgia," he says. The nostalgia-covered Twentieth Century Limited made its final run for the Central last month. Southern Pacific's president, Benjamin Franklin Biaggini, who would like to chop off his Lark trains running between Los Angeles and San Francisco, says: "It takes a crew of 21 and the operation of a whole train just to move an average of less than two busloads of people. There are 10,000 airline seats available each day in each direction, and it is obvious that the people who fly them don't want to ride trains."
Rent-a-Train. The future of the railroads, quite clearly, lies in freight. And in anticipation of that rich haul, railroads all around the country are adding new equipment, with a handsome outlay of $3.45 billion over the past two years. The results are already impressive. The Pennsy, for instance, pioneered with "unit" trains, in which continuously linked cars carrying bulk cargoes like coal can bypass freight yards and switching delays because they never have to be uncoupled. Beginning with one unit train in 1964, the road now runs 550 a month. Illinois Central has gone a step farther and devised a rent-a-train plan that Hertz and Avis might envy. Under the system worked out by I.C. Marketing Vice President John Ingram, companies can rent an 86-car train for $1,000,000 a year, run it as frequently as they like. Illinois Central has so far rented out five such trains to grain companies.
Three-tiered automobile haulers have won back new-car haul business from trucks and saved the auto companies on freight charges as well. For other customers, railroads can offer everything from "rail whale" tank cars with 50,000-gal. capacity to "high cube" cars built with extra-high roofs for odd-size loads. Piggyback hauls, in which flatcars carry over-the-road trailers, have increased 385% in a decade, to 1,207,242 carloads. The Southern Pacific, for one, has seen its piggyback service grow from 18,000 tons twelve years ago to 2,200,000 tons last year.
Everywhere, trains are getting bigger -the Norfolk & Western recently ran a 500-car train that was pulled by six engines with radio-connected controls operated by a single engineer. Last week the Santa Fe inaugurated service of its Super C freight from Chicago to Los Angeles. On its first run it zoomed from city to city in 34 hours and 35 minutes, or five hours faster than Santa Fe's famed Super Chief.
Happy Marriage. Nothing is changing railroading more than the computer. Just about every Class I U.S. road has acquired some of the electronic giants to control the costly and time-consuming business of putting freight trains together, taking them apart, and keeping track of the cars. The Union Pacific has so far installed 53 computers in 37 yard offices, ties them all in with four master computers in Omaha by a 2,900-mile private microwave system; the line figures that the economies obtained are equal to having 3,000 additional freight cars on hand.
Computers and the men necessary to run them have nourished a new breed of railroaders-management experts with wide-ranging interests. And they, in turn, have fueled the railroads' drive to diversify-if the Government eases up-into related areas of transportation. The Missouri Pacific, which already owns two truck lines extending 17,000 miles, last week applied to the CAB for permission to start an air-freight service. Says W. Graham Claytor Jr., new president of the Southern: "The railroads must press hard for the right to sell transportation, not railroad service. Then they must supply it in the most economical form suited to the customer's needs, including in many cases a combination of highway, rail, water and even air." Saunders enthusiastically agrees. "A transportation company," he says, "should be able to offer a customer every kind of shipping service."
In the effort to do that, the railroads are showing increasing enterprise. The Great Northern, Northern Pacific, Union Pacific and Southern Pacific, among others, have opened sales offices in the Far East. The Pennsy, in turn, has opened offices in seven European cities. The aim is to build up a business in containerized shipments that can be handled by rail after they are unloaded from ships. The U.S. railroads are pushing to establish a "land bridge" service by which freight bound between the Far East and Europe would travel by ship to the U.S., go by rail across the country, and on ships again to its final destination. The savings in time would be significant: 28 days from Japan to Europe by way of the land bridge v. 44 days on an all-ship transit through the Suez Canal.
Such is the future of U.S. railroading, and so auspicious is the outlook for the Penn Central merger, that Stuart Saunders last week relaxed his customary aggressiveness. "I have heard it said that a long courtship makes for a happy marriage," said Saunders, as he looked back over the years of fuss and frustration, "and I hope that it is true, for it will surely mean eternal bliss for the Penn Central." Bliss, perhaps. But with Saunders running things, certainly not tranquillity. Honoring Saunders last week with its annual Benjamin Franklin award, Philadelphia's Poor Richard Club summed up the situation pretty well. "When Benjamin Franklin arrived in Philadelphia," said a society spokesman at the presentation ceremonies, "things began to happen. It's the same with Stuart Saunders."
Time cover
http://www.library.georgetown.edu/dept/speccoll/time/images/jpg/07.jpg
IC Chicago 1965
http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/i/IC4032sChiILrp.jpg.31516.jpg
IC Chicago April 9, 1971
http://67.15.20.45/images/r/rr473.jpg.54881.jpg
UP Chicago April 30, 1971
http://67.15.20.45/images/r/rr535.jpg.87343.jpg
Video clip of Amtrak F40 overcoming inertia at Chicago
http://static.thoughtequity.com/video/aux/warehouse/345/6254/3456254_094_lp.wmv
Mike
Spoke with the Wolfman earlier this afternoon - he should be back on line tomorrow (Wednesday). That's good news! Has had his hands full with "house problems" far too much to get into here, but no fun at all in JCity . . . <ugh> Then Amtrak did in fact cancel their train plans for KCity today. <geesh> Boris, best treat our Bar Chandler very, very kindly when he comes in. Methinks he'll require a bit of TLC from the gang! <ahhhhhhhh>
A bit more on the Union Pacific from Monday to keep things moving at this rather lonely bar - check out these advertisements . . .
Somewhere back in time there's a reference to "winding down," but I never figured that the guys depended on the most would've done so first! And this is just the beginning of sloooooooooooooow times at the Saloon by the Siding! <grin 'n bear it!>
Noted that Amtrak has curtailed its run between Jefferson City 'n Kansas City for part of the day, which probably wiped out the Wolfman's plans. Amtrak arranged to "bus" the passengers however. Prolonged heavy rains to the west has caused the Missouri River to rise above flood stage in many places and that spells p-r-o-b-l-e-m-s for the UP mainline running parallel to the river in some areas in the Show-Me-State. Expected fast rise 'n fall in these parts too. Nothing like the flood of 1993 though, where levies were topped 'n burst in places.
Email responses from Doug 'n Eric are in, still pending Rob 'n Pete . . .
Petrol at $3.18 (rounded) up at "Collusion Corner" and there's lotsa "grumping" going on because of it.
Customer Acknowledgments on Wednesday, HOWEVER, many thanx to Eric 'n CM3 Shane for not abandoning the joint!
Illinois Central is a road with all kinds of material to Post. Shane brought up a "good-un" - how about some book covers (in the spirit of the Larsman)? I don't believe we've seen these at the bar . . . Enjoy!
Ruth, set 'em up and Boris ring the ding - drinks on Da Bossman!
Good Morning Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox. Nice weather here today, gas is at $3.06.
OSP sent book covers which were interesting. Maury Klein ahs done a lot of work over the years. One of his earliest was a history of the L&N. OSP showed pictures of his UP book. He also did a book on Jay Gould which was a good one as well.
Eric - I tried, what threw me was the Cut Bank designation on the relay box. Oh well, thanks for playing.
We haven't done much with the Illinois Central in awhile, so here's a rerun of some earlier IC stuff about their trains and what goodies one could find in the diner.
The IC still had a fair amount of passenger service in 1969.
Trains 1 and 2, the "City of New Orleans" was an all-coach operation between Chicago and New Orleans (two dome coaches as well). The City had a diner-counter-lounge between Chicago and Jackson
Trains 3 and 4, ‘The Panama Limited" was still the pride of the railroad although itnow had coaches.
The "Mid-American" was an all-coach train between Chicago and Memphis which had a food-bar-coach as well.
Trains 7 and 8 "The Illini" ran with coaches and a food-bar-coach between Chicago and Carbondale, as did Trains 9 and 10, the "Shawnee."
We have discussed trains 52 and 53, the "City of Miami" in an earlier post. Trains 105 and 106 ran between St. Louis and Carbondale.
Trains 11 and 12 , the "Hawkeye" were all-coach operations that ran on a God-awful schedule between Chicago and Sioux City.
Last was trains 21 and 22 "Governor's Special" between Chicago and Springfield. These runs had coaches and a "Palm Grove Café" Car.
Going back to the early 60s we find that the "Panama" was still all-Pullman.
It had the following consist
Sleeping Cars:
Chicago-New Orleans: 10 rtte/6db (2 cars); 4 comp./4db/2 drawing rooms; 11 db
Chicago-New Orleans: 2 db/1dr/2 comp observation car
Chicago-Jackson: 10 rtte/6db
St. Louis-New Orleans: 10rtte/6db (via Carbondale)
Chicago-New Orleans Twin-Unit diner
The IC was noted for its food and the top offering was the Kings Dinner on the Panama.
Here's what the passenger got for $9.85 in 1965 (damn the blood tests, full speed ahead!)
Manhattan or martini cocktail
Appetizers
Shrimp cocktail
Wine
Fish
Char-broiled steak with mushrooms
Salad and dressing (prepared at your table)
Rolls/breads
Cheese/ apple wedges
Coffee
After dinner cordial
I also found a menu from the City of Miami in my material
Entrees included
Fried halibut, potatoes and salad - $1.50
Saute Veal, spaghetti Milanese, Lima beans - $1.60
Roast turkey - dressing, potatoes, Lima beans - $ 1.75
Dinner rolls
Pineapple sundae
Chilled melon
Cheese and crackers
Peach cobbler/vanilla sauce
Coffee - tea - milk
All this and a train trip as well - when do we eat?
Work Safe
Leon, time for an early breakfast! Coffee and the remaining Cheese Danish! Oh, do you have two? I'll take them both. Thanks!
Another quiet day! It is like Cracker Barrel, where I have my lunch every day, they have been very slow the last few weeks! Things will likely start picking up soon.
Tom – Yes, the movie list certainly includes a wide variety of movies. Most of them very good ones!Just read today that Metro North retired its last FL9 by the end of April this year. Connecticut Department of Transportation is still operating a few FL9s in their commuter service. So I guess those FL9s are the very last ones in service of the 60 built.I am very much looking forward to checking out your flick library! And, of course, the lithograph “The Canadian”. I’ll teach you some Swedish words during the Rendezvous!Union Pacific! Now also found in Arizona since a number of years! Instead we lost Southern Pacific. SP makes me think about West Coast Dave. I hope he is okay! Back to UP! Just noticed they used to have a train called Yellowstone Special. I have been to Yellowstone N.P. but never to the west entrance, to where that train was running. Maybe next year, when I am going to take my sister and brother-in-law to Yellowstone.Stand-in for Manager Lars?! Well done! Interesting books with real nice covers! One of them, Union Pacific’s Challenger, makes me wonder why they named that train the same as their steam locomotives? Or was that train pulled by Challengers in the beginning? CM3 – The picture of the 600 mm steam locomotive is from the early 1900’s. I am afraid your guess isn’t correct even though very logic. They are/were pulling the X2000 on its National Tour in 1993. See picture below. Yes, I remember that they were loud when providing HEP for the train. Thanks for the info!
Over and through the Cascades.
Stealing a page from the Larsman, here's a few book covers on the UP that haven't been Posted before . . .
Ruth, give 'em a drink on me and Boris, ring the bell!
Good Morning Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please; round for the house; and $ for the jukebox.
A few comments and some thoughts about F40s today.
Thanks to Eric for pictures; I especially enjoyed the 600 mm steam locomotive. I'm guessing, but I'll bet the F 40 was on the "Empire Builder." I made that trip a few times, and always enjoyed the ride.
The F40s appeared early on the NEC where they replaced trashed out former PRR and NYC E units east of New Haven. This was, of course, before the NEC electrification. I remember photographing most of them "number by number" as they ran in and out of Boston. They also congregated at New Haven and I made several trips to shoot them there. Later they appeared on 50 and 51 when I moved over here. They replaced the GE "Pooches" which, IIRC, went west. F40s were fine locomotives according to the crews who operated them and brutally powerful. Operating rules here allowed for one F40 with ten cars over Alleghany - not bad. You probably remember how loud they were with the HEP feature, though.
OSP - Rec'd e-mails and thanks for them. Agree with your decision.
Thank you for UP material.
Movies are good ones for the Theatuh.
The movie "Untouchables" is far better than the TV show ever was. We were in Chicago when they were filming some of the scenes and got to see vintage cars driving around, etc. A lot of it was, of course, filmed around the Loop. Fascinating to watch how they did it.
Favorite lines for me were the veteran police officer explaining to Ness how to get Capone. Also the scene late in the picture "Where's Nitti?" Ness replies, "He's in the car." Those of you who have seen the film will remember the background for that.
As for "Long Gone," is, IMHO one of the best baseball pictures ever. "Did I ever tell you about the time I struck out Ted Williams?" I won't spoil it, but it is great stuff.
Speaking of the Olde Towne Team, the Boston sportswriters have their knickers in a twist now that Roger has returned to the Yankees. He's forty-fiver years old, which means his legs are forty-five as well. As I have said before, 'That's why they play."
The Passenger Railroad Fallen Flags of "Our" Place #13 Union Pacific Railroad - Passenger operations (UP)
A form of this was initially Posted on Page 124 of the original Threadsource: Classic American Railroads
Union Pacific (UP) - (passenger ops)
Headquarters: Omaha, NE
Mileage:
1950: 9,9720 1996: 22,785 (trackage rights included)
Locomotives as of 1963:
Steam: 29 Diesel: 1,347 Gas-turbine: 49
Rolling stock in 1963: Freight cars - 54,959 Passenger cars - 851
Principal lines in 1950:
Omaha-Ogden, UT via Cheyenne, WY Ogden-Los Angeles via Las Vegas, NV Julesburg-La Salle, CO Granger, WY-Seattle, WA via Montpelier, ID & Portland, OR Pocatello, ID-Butte, MT Hinkle, OR-Spokane, WA Ogden-McCammon (Pocatello) Cheyenne & Borie-Kansas City via Denver Topeka, KS-Gibbon, NE Marysville, KS-Valley (Fremont) NE
Principal lines added as of 1996:
Salt Lake City, UT-Oakland, CA via Sacramento, CA Freemont & Omaha-Chicago Nelson, IL-St. Louis Chicago-Green Bay via Kenosha and Oshkosh, WI Chicago-Milwaukee via Bain, WI Milwaukee-Minneapolis Minneapolis-Kansas City via Des Moines, IA Minneapolis-Omaha via Sioux City, IA Chicago-Madison, WI
Plus the MoPac/ subsidiary lines:
Omaha-St. Louis via Kansas City Chicago-Houston via Pana, Dupo (St. Louis) and Thebes, IL, Little Rock, AR and Palestine, TX Houston-Brownsville, TXPalestine-Laredo, TX via Austin Houston-New Orleans via Baton Rouge, LA Kansas City-Little Rock, AR via Coffeyville, KS El Paso, TX-New Orleans via Fort Worth and Shreveport, LA Kansas City-Pueblo, CO
Passenger trains of note:
Butte Special (Salt Lake City, UT-Butte, MT) Challenger (Chicago-Los Angeles) City of Las Vegas (Los Angeles-Las Vegas) City of Denver (Chicago-Denver) City of Los Angeles (Chicago-Los Angeles via Cheyenne, WY) City of Portland (Chicago-Portland, OR via Cheyenne [via Denver 1959-68]) City of Salina (Kansas City-Topeka-Salina, KS) City of St. Louis (St. Louis-Los Angeles & San Francisco & Portland via Kansas City & Denver) City of San Francisco (Chicago-Oakville, CA via Cheyenne) Columbine (Omaha-Denver) Forty Niner (Chicago-Oakland) Gold Coast (Chicago-Oakland & Los Angeles) Idahoan (Cheyenne-Portland via Pocatello) Los Angeles Limited (Chicago-Los Angeles) Pony Express (Kansas City-Los Angeles) Portland Rose (Denver-Portland) San Francisco Overland (Chicago-Oakland; after 1955 St. Louis-Oakland) The Spokane (Spokane, WA-Portland) Utahn (Cheyenne-Los Angeles) Yellowstone Special (Pocatello, ID-West Yellowstone, MT)
Of note: UP trains serving Chicago operated Omaha-Chicago via C&NW until Oct 1955, then via Milwaukee Road 1955-71. All UP trains serving St. Louis operated via Wabash between St. Louis & Kansas City.
A smile to begin the week!
I'm hiding these right here.
(A Yogi-ism!)
A new day, a new week and time to begin this Monday with a hot mug of coffee, pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery along with a <light> or <traditional> breakfast from our Menu Board!
Received Emails from Las 'n James indicating they couldn't log in on Saturday - probably due to the site maintenance by Kalmbach.
CM3 Shane at 10:11 AM Friday: Thanx for the insights regarding the FL9 and its dual power capability - always learning something ‘round this place.
More than a few of those flicks on the Emporium's screening list were suggested by you.
Always appreciate the quarters, round ‘n support!
Lars at 10:55 AM Friday: Continuing support of the bar means a lot - thanx!
If you got away as planned (this time) I guess you're somewhere in the "deep" south as the Larsman Caravan winds its way to the Florida Keys. Good knowing that we may be hearing from you while down there . . .
Many thanx for the Email, VIA Rail Pix ‘n round!
Pete at 4:35 AM Friday: So what's wrong with alumin-I-um???
Fine, fine URL, chock full o' RDCs ‘n stuff!
IF BC Rail were in operation today, we'd be making a trip along their route to Prince George. It was a fine, fine RR with scenery that just didn't quit all viewed from RDCs in excellent material condition! Ahhhh, memories.
Films at the Emporium all are provided for the enjoyment of our customers and I'm glad you have (and do)! Many thanx for the visit ‘n round!
Eric at 2:55 AM ‘n 3:28 PM ‘n 6:02 PM Saturday: I'm not sure there's been a time when we've seen you at the bar for three Postings on one day. Maybe for a special occasion, but surely not on a "routine" Saturday. Many thanx for being our only customer!
Glad you too found the Emporium movie list of interest. We've covered quite a bit of ground with our showings, eh
In a matter of one week and a few days, you'll be here and able to check out the library of VHS ‘n DVD flicks we have and of course that fine lithograph of "The Canadian" too.
Thanx for the traction Pix from Germany and RR shots from Sweden!
"Cool" traction shot! Got a kick out of the "Lord Nelson" URL, especially the native tongue narrative! I've always found it interesting to detect any words ‘n linkages to my language. Most definitely a challenge.
Appreciate the Email response, visits and continuing support!
Eric at 11:49 PM Sunday: Yes, it is sad when the joint ain't rockin' - let's hope the weekend can be chalked off to the site maintenance. Otherwise, we're definitely on the rocks . . .
Saw a few Amtrak F40s sitting on a siding just outside of Chicago's Union Station this past January . . . other than that, don't see 'em 'round here anymore. Thanx for the Pix and of course, visit!
Reminder: Ruth has the bar from 9 AM until Leon the Night Man comes in at 5 PM ‘til closing.
Good evening/morning Captain Tom and Gentlemen!!
Let's see, here it is, the mail slot. Push it in and I am done.
Not much to say, the place look kind of sad when it is closed. Saturday was probably the slowest I have seen here. But we are all busy so that is what happens!
At least I am going to post a picture of something you don't see any more, F40s pulling Amtrak trains across the nation! I don't know if Amtrak has any F40 still in service? I doubt it.
1993.
Good afternoon Captain Tom and Gentlemen!!
Thanks, Cindy, just a cup of coffee! My stomach is still full.
Just saw the movies for next week at the Mentor Village Emporium Theatre! Good choice of our Captain, as usual. The Untouchables! If it is even close to be as good as the old TV-series its worth a visit to the theatre!
The real reason I stopped by was to provide a link for Pete (or maybe DL) that I found at a Swedish forum. It shows an articel from The Railway magazine about a British WD 2-8-0, #90733. What do you know about that locomotive? There is also a picture of Lord Nelson steaming along!
http://f15.parsimony.net/forum25608/messages/757930.htm
ENCORE! Saturday ‘n Photo Posting Day!
at "Our" Place!
We are CLOSED on SUNDAYs!Starting Sunday at the Mentor Village Emporium Theatre!
. . .May 6th thru 12th: The Untouchables (1987) Starring: Kevin Costner, Sean Connery, Charles Martin Smith, Andy Garcia & Robert De Niro - and - Long Gone (1987) Starring: William Petersen, Virginia Madsen, Dermot Mulroney, Larry Riley & Katy Boyer. SHORT: The Three Stooges - No Census, No Feeling (1940).
The Untouchables (1987)
PLOT SUMMARY:
From a script by David Mamet, the movie pits four underdog heroes (the maverick lawmen known as the Untouchables) against a singular villain in Al Capone, played by Robert De Niro as a dapper caesar holding court (and a baseball bat) against any and all challengers. Kevin Costner is the naive federal agent Eliot Ness, whose lack of experience is tempered by the streetwise alliance of a seasoned Chicago cop (Sean Connery, in an Oscar-winning performance), a rookie marksman (Andy Garcia), and an accountant (Charles Martin Smith) who holds the key to Capone's potential downfall. The movie approaches greatness on the strength of its set pieces, such as the siege near the Canadian border, the venal ambush at Connery's apartment, and the train-station shootout. --Jeff Shannon
from: amazon.com
Long Gone (1987)
Story of the Tampico Stogies, a low minor-league baseball team, and its star player and manager, Stud' Cantrell, as they battle for the league championship amidst the corruption and racism of the American south. William L. Petersen (Manhunter) is a player-manager for a 1950s minor-league team whose fortunes and hopes turn around during their battle for a championship. As with Bull Durham, this comedy has the feeling of taking place in a world larger than that of baseball, and thus provides useful perspective into why the game is so central in people's lives each spring. Another similarity is the farm-team milieu, a life of abridged hopes and stardom outside the Show--the thematic implication being that most of us have some kind of Show we can only admire from a distance. (Underscoring the point is a nice performance by Virginia Madsen as a small-town beauty queen.) But hope does come in Long Gone, and because of its sharp dialogue and enjoyable acting (by Dermot Mulroney, Larry Riley, Henry Gibson, Katy Boyer, and Teller) this film deserves to be included in anyone's collection of baseball features. --Tom Keogh
From: amazon.com
SHORT: No Census, No Feeling (1940)PLOT SUMMARY: Featuring Moe, Larry & Curly
The Stooges, upon escaping from the police after another random act of vandalism, suddenly find themselves in employment as census takers. Making their rounds, they help out a bridge club where Curly has spiked the punch with alum (thinking it was sugar) and invade the field of a football game in progress.
from: threestooges.net
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