Hi Tom and all.
Back from the dentists and had done my post when I lost it, can't blame the forum just my own stupidity. So I will have a large Navy rum please LEON.
ERIC.
The only MKT steam loco to survive according to the St. Louis Museum of Transportation is a 4-4-0 of the American-Type #311. She was donated to the museum, along with some cars that form the Katy Flyer, in 1952. Hopefully we should see her in May. Another loco I would like to see there is General Electric #1 which was the "first electric main line loco in the U.S." This loco is kept in a shed, I was told but the volunteer I spoke to. He said that if I could let them know in advance I should be able to view the loco. We should be able to see Kirkwood station as well as the famous Saloon in the pic.
The answer to the quiz is: When British Rail computerized their system for locomotives it was the SP system they used. Under this system known as TOPS, locomotives were renumbered with a 5 numbers. The first two numbers donated the class of loco. They were 01 to69 for diesels, 70 to79 for DC electrics, 80 to91 for AC electrics 97 for departmental locos and 98 for steam locos registered to run on BR lines.
The third number was often the sub-class the loco was in. For example.
The Brush type 4 2,700 HP Diesel-Electrics were originally numbered D1500 to D1999 and D1100 to D1111, a total of 512 locos, these be came class 47 with sub classes under TOPS.
47/0 locos able to provide steam heat
47/3 locos not able to provide train heat.
47/4 locos able to provide electric heat or duel heat
47/7 locos with electric heat and fitted to allow push-pull operation. (47701to47716)
47/8 locos with electric heat fitted with long-range fuel tanks.
With the phasing out of steam heat on BR the 47/0s lost their boilers or had them isolated, they still retained their 47/0 numbering. The 47/0 sub class was numbered 47001 to 47298.
Great pic from 1981. Is the museum it was taken at still in operation there seems to lines of different gauges there.
As Tom says keep safe.
DL Good description of how British beer should be served. The last few years have indeed been a bad time for the medium sized brewers, it is like the late 60s and 70s when so many good brews were lost.
Thanks for the description of the Great Central gala and for the link to the DMUS. The old dmus, especially the Metro Cammell class 101, were a favorite of NICK. I do hope he will return to Our Place as he is sorely missed, as is his knowledge of BR both steam and diesel.
It is great to see the beaver tail car coming on in its restoration. When the 1937 style car is restored, what a sight it could be with an A4 at the head of a set of Gresley teak coaches and with the beaver tail at the rear. It is marvellous in the 21st century such a sight is possible thanks to the hard work of the preservationists.
A few years ago, quite often, Alan and I would go off to the GCR on a Sunday afternoon. In wintertime it was wonderful to travel on ‘the last train of the day' in the dark with steam heat and the gaslights on at Rothley station. Then to walk down to the shed and watch the locos having the fires thrown out after a weekends work. There is something magical about a steam railway at night.
What a great trip in the LMS saloon. I have not seen a Super D in steam since the 1960s although I did see her being worked on in York Museum. They were a common sight at Rugby in the late 50s early 60s, instantly reconisable by not having their number on the smokebox. After the early 50s I think they were unique in this respect on BR.
That must have been a good conversation with the editor, I wish I could have been there. Steam Railway is one of the two British railway magazines I have on subscription sent over here, although they seem to be taking longer to get here than they used to do. Steam Railway magazine was involved in raising money for the 04 and the Brit's restoration as well as other projects. After I have read them the mags they have a good home.
CM3 It seems mighty cold where you are, we are supposed to get another cold front this weekend.
Yes indeed I am certain I would enjoy the railroad scene in West Virginia especially the Shays at Cass. The Durbin & Greenbrier Valley RR looks another great line. How far is line from the Cass line.
I believe the line between here and Kirkwood is signaled bi-directional, with a couple of short single track over two large rivers. The Amtrak very often switches track to overtake freights. The signals where the cross-overs are seem to be two signals mounted on the same post. In the UK where there are switches on the main line there is a set of 5 lights on top of the signal at an angle. These are known as ‘feathers' to the railwaymen. At a busy junction there can be numerous feathers on one signal to show the different routes I will have to find a pic of one.
TOM Thanks for the Matewan info from CM3 and yourself. Enjoyed the links to the filming with 765, loved the pizza story and the loco certainly looks great in that scenery
Good evening Captain Tom and all present!
Leon, nice to see you! I'll have my Sugar Cured Ham Sandwich tonight! Yeah, cold! Coffee, please! Thank you! Ruth? Oh, she is? Yeah, I guess she is missing her friend, Lars. Is that right? Hmm.
A beautiful Monday! 72° F. Nice! It is also nice to get a bite here before it is bedtime.
Tom – It’s a good question, what is going on here? OK Corrall? I haven’t seen anything in the news yet, but today I drove by the place where I saw the helicopter had its floodlight aimed at for a long period of time and there are a lot of flowers and stuff against the trunk of a big tree. Looks like some kind a memorial, like they put up on location when people have been killed. It happened so late last night so it was nothing in the newspaper. I’ll keep my eyes open. Yes, I misread your comment regarding the RDC-3. I have many books about railroads and everything connected to it and I keep finding incorrect info in several of them just by comparing the books. I like your Union Station, but obviously did not take the pictures during the rush hours. Too few people! Are you going to place the subway station under Union Station? I have to print out the list over CP’s Hotels and Lodges so I can locate those cities. Are all those hotels still open/in service? Thanks for the link about “The Early Years”. Read about Matewan. I have to see that movie. I think WV could be a good place for a rendezvous.DL – I am glad that you don’t drink warm beer. That would be terrible! Cellar temperature sound more like it! The Beavertail observation car is really different! I wonder why they the rebuilt the end of it? I think it looked better before being rebuilt. I am sure you had a very nice weekend! CM3 – Reading your comments about the movie, Matewan, makes me curious about coal mines. Maybe I should make a trip there next year and visit one of those mines? Rendezvous?
Pete – Thanks for the info on the MTL steam loco! Hopefully we will be able to see it in May!! I have saved a copy of your post so I have the info about the numbering system whenever I need it! My picture was taken at McCormick Railroad Park in Scottsdale, just east of Phoenix. It is still open and they have live steam trains offering rides. See the picture below.
Eric
Hello Tom
Can I have a full cooked breakfast please, I'm hungry today, coffee and fruit juice too please.
CM3 - thanks for the Matewan location info. I'm not familiar with the east of the USA at all, but many pics I see suggest superb scenery - are those pics on the links typical of the area? Are the places near where you are like that?
Tom, I enjoyed the links on the Matewan loco, nice Pizza story! Yes, I was hopping my trip report might stimulate some commentary and information from Pete and indeed it did, I yield to his knowledge (and more important, personal memory) of some of the steam designs too!
Warm beer - I think it is probably the case that years ago bar keepers were under strict instruction to heat up beer to be served to US citizens, this was a hang over from world war two days when many US forces members came to the UK, and whilst mostly welcomed with enthusiasm, there were certain incidents where US forces members got into ‘fraternising' with UK females, the idea of heating the beer was to stop them getting too fond of the country <grin, grin>. This did not work however, since quite clearly many US citizens demonstrate some fondness and affection for ‘merrie old' and now hopefully beer is served as it should be!
Actually, as you think about a UK visit you might be amused by this:
"Instructions for American Servicemen in Britain, 1942: Reproduced from the Original Typescript, War Department, Washington, DC (Instructions for Servicemen)"
http://www.bodleianbookshop.co.uk/bodleian/display.asp?K=510000000183538&aub=Bodleian%20Library&m=8&dc=25
This book has been re-printed in facsimile - and although some of the stuff in it is very old fashioned and of the period, some points are just as relevant today. Here are some excerpts I have seen on the web:
"...When you see a girl in khaki or air-force blue with a bit of ribbon on her tunic--remember she didn't get it for knitting more socks than anyone else in Ipswich...""...The British don't know how to make a good cup of coffee. You don't know how to make a good cup of tea. It's an even swap..."
"AT HOME in America you were in a country at war. Since your ship left port, however, you have been in a war zone. You will find that all Britain is in a war zone and has been since September 1939. All this has meant great changes in the British way of life.""Every light in England is blacked out every night and all night. Every highway signpost has come down and barrage balloons have gone up. Grazing land is now ploughed for wheat and flower beds turned into vegetable gardens. Britain's peacetime army of a couple of hundred thousand has been expanded to over two million men. Everything from the biggest factory to the smallest village workshop is turning out something for the war, so that Britain can supply for herself, for Libya, India, Russia and every front"But more important than this is the effect of the war itself. The British have been bombed, night after night and month after month. Thousands of them have lost their houses, their possessions, their families. Gasoline, clothes, and railroad travel are hard to come by and incomes are cut by taxes to an extent we Americans have not even approached. One of the things the English always had enough of in the past was soap. Now it is so scarce that girls working in the factories often cannot get the grease off their hands or out of their hair. And food is more strictly rationed than anything else.""You are coming to Britain from a country where your home is safe, food is still plentiful, and lights are still burning. So it is doubly important for you to remember that the British soldiers and civilians have been living under tremendous strain. It is always impolite to criticize your hosts. It is militarily stupid to insult you allies."
I wonder if these books raised a smile back in the day. I certainly don't forget that for some guys, their stay here would have been the last time they were on ‘friendly soil', a long way from their own families and friends. I seriously doubt in those days they could get any type of cold beer.
Come to think of it Tom it would be a good idea to try and steer a UK visit to be over a time period when one of the larger steam railways is running a gala event - most of them run 2 galas a year at least, and from your perspective it would be best to select one that had easy access to the main UK rail network (eg a platform interchange allowing no sweat access) - there are several that meet the bill and no doubt we can advise. If you are in the country anyway it kinda makes sense, would be my view. You would typically get a lot of steam trains running all day, with plenty to see and do, as Pete mentions.
Pete. Thanks for the TOPS answer, I knew the system was US in origin, but did not know the link with the SP.
They seem to have 3 Class 101 sets at the GCR, but only one was looking smart and serviceable. Also parked out of action (and in need of renovation) looked like one of the intermediate buffet cars from these units. Strange to think of them having a buffet, as they ended their days very much on branch lines and secondary routes, but reading that link shows they were first introduced on runs like Newcastle to Carlisle or West Riding routes, which now would not even justify a refreshment trolley! In fact I note that First Great Western are to remove buffet cars from some of the London to Bristol inter city journeys and simply provide a trolley, quite disgraceful IMHO.
They seem to have a good number of teak coaches at the GCR too, but mostly in need of very extensive renovation, which is very sad. At first I was disappointed that the Beaver Tail was not going back to 1937 style, but when I heard that another one would be restored that way I was very pleased. I look forward to ride when it is back in action on the GCR - happy to pay the supplement. (Last year I was on the KWVR and they had a v nice teak directors saloon, supplement included afternoon tea with scones, very nice - always worth the investment since this keeps the other half tolerant of the prolonged visits to the rather more down at heal environment of the sheds!)
I believe the Super D restoration was paid for by Pete Waterman - so all those pop record purchases have been in a good cause.
I make a point of travelling on the last train if at all possible, for the reason you say, not thought about going down to the shed at the end though - good idea which I'll have to do next time.
The Steam Railway editor was a nice chap, in his late 30s or perhaps early 40s, there were 4 of us in the saloon at that point, and the 4th gent was a subscriber so of course that was something he was keen on. I wonder why they take so long to reach you - perhaps they go to some postal forwarding section - no doubt distribution is probably sub contracted. What other journal do you have sent over from UK? I have no problems with Kalmbatch coming the other way - and in fact I note WHS Derby Station even stock ‘Trains' magazine.
Eric - just on your point about the Beaver Tail Observation saloon - I quite agree with you the 1937 design is much more stylish, but apparently is was less good for looking out of - only those seated right in the rear window area getting a good view, so the re-build was done to increase the glazed area when the cars were sent to Scotland to run on the scenic Scottish lines in the Highlands in the late 1950s / early 1960s.
Here's a nice poster of the train
http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10173036&wwwflag=2&imagepos=1
here are the cars being built
http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10459953&wwwflag=2&imagepos=3
and a pic of the actual train after construction - outbreak of war in 2 years caused the end of this prestigious train, I'm not sure what happened to the rest of the specially built carriages
http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10459957&wwwflag=2&imagepos=5
Cheerio
DL
Good morning Tom, a round for the house
Great Central Railway
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/89/278042268_507883991c_b.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/loose_grip_99/sets/72057594071511546/?page=2
No trains at Matewan
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase_new/norfolksouthern/full/ns201.jpeg
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase_new/norfolksouthern/full/ns200.jpeg
Katy 4-4-0
http://photoswest.org/photos/00012751/00012868.jpg
Katy Alcos
http://photoswest.org/photos/00012876/00012908.jpg
Cleveland & Marietta RR hauling Standard Oil
http://worlddmc.ohiolink.edu/mrsid/bin/OMPview.pl?client=Sanborn&image=/Bdg/Hist1MDS/d118/1021622829159.Om1269_010.sid&x=1701&y=1010&width=3403&height=2022&originx=0&originy=0&fullheight=2022&fullwidth=3403&w=999&h=573&levels=4&lastlevel=2&win=max&level=1
C&O George Washington leaving Cincinnati
Milwaukee Road new Fairbanks-Morse 1947
http://www.philsp.com/data/images/r/railroad_194712.jpg
foto credit: www.viarail.ca
G'day Gents!
A blue sky morning here in mid-continent USA, although "they" say some snow has fallen just a bit north of where we are, nothing substantial - a "dusting." Temps are once again in the <brrrrrrr zone> 15 (F) at walk time with Juneau. The wind was rather "cutting" which made the trek all the fraster! <grin> Couldn't wait to get that hot cuppa coffee upon arriving at the Haus.
I see the Menu Board still shows some fine selections for <light> ‘n <traditional> breakfasts and of course The Mentor Village Bakery case is chock full ‘o pastries. So, check ‘em out with a hot mugga Joe to wash it all down!
Appears is if we're in that strange period of "musical stools" here at the Saloon by the Siding. No more Doug - no more Rob (again ‘n again!) - absolutely no more Nick (he's now a Permanent Member of the Legion of the Lost - with several clusters!) - BK in the land "down under" and Lars in the Keys - that "band of ten" who indicated willingness to keep the bar going this past summer has significantly dropped in numbers. Oh well . . . .
Good to see Pete last night, Eric later, DL from the other side of the Pond and"silent" Mike (who by the by should've received a <tweeting> for failing to greet the barkeep!) Where's there's activity, there's HOPE! THANX guys for helping to keep the place moving forward! ]
It's Tuesday once again and in healthier times we would've scheduled a "Theme for the Day!" As indicated some Pages ago, I've put that feature on hold until we see evidence of increased participation.
Really some fine musings in the Posts this day and I'll get to ‘em again a bit later on. A few things have come up to preoccupy the Proprietor! Nothing grim, just the "stuff of life"! <grin> Always fine contributions from all! Especially want to recongize Pete - Eric 'n DL - you three (along with CM3), who have now taken over as the "nucleus" for the dialogue at "Our" Place. Awesome "responsibility," eh <grin>
Did want to make comment on our Rendezvous in May: We ARE "on" and there's no change to that. With or without the bar remaining open, there WILL be a Rendezvous. Can't say the same about 2008 for Chicago. Much too early for definitiveness for that idea, although those of us who attend the St. Louis gathering will "vote" for the site of the next one.
Of course any time there's talk of a train trip by the guys, it peaks my interests and I'm sure those of the Wolfman. So, IF there's interest in "between Rendezvous" sojourns to here ‘n there, let's communicate by Email!
THANX again for the contributions, Gents and I'll be back a bit later with some more "stuff" to Post!
Reminder: Ruth has the bar from 9 AM until Leon the Night Man comes in at 5 PM ‘til closing.
Boris, serve ‘em all of the "spiked" OJ they can handle!
Tom
Back again and this time with a bit more time to share . . .
Expanded Acknowledgments!
Pete at 9:40 PM yesterday: Can't even begin to count how many "lost" Posts have occurred while trying to prepare them directly onto the Forum's "window." Far, far safer to use the WP - "saving" frequently - so that "if" things go wrong, at least your efforts can be retrieved. Sorry! <grin>
Honestly don't have a "clue" about taverns in Sedalia, but there has to be at least ONE, eh Used to have a huge Levis-Straus plant there, but they pulled out years ago and left the "shell" of yet another manufacturing building behind. Between the demise of the passenger railroads and manufacturing, I don't really know what Sedalia depends upon for employment, aside from farming and ranching that is. Yeah, there has to be at least ONE bar left! <grin>
Figuring on spending at least a half day at the Museum of Transportation here in St. Louis County when the gang arrives for the Rendezvous. So either you communicate with the people who can perhaps set up something for us, or I will. Just keep me in the "loop" - thanx!
Oh <heck> <darn> <drat it all> I KNEW the answer to your "quiz" - just had a memory lapse at the moment! Yeah, right! WHERE do you come up with these Kinda like wanting to know how many rivets there were in the port side forecastle of the Titanic! <geesh>
Must presume the signals along the UP mainlines between here and KCity are all "standard" now that MoPac is long gone. Once upon a time, each major railroad had free run in terms of how they wanted to design and use signals. Of course "standardization" soon came into being amongst the "giants" and now, my guess is they are all "pretty much" the same, aside from an oddity here ‘n there. But, I'm speaking from absolutely no knowledge whatsoever of the subject. Perhaps we have someone remaining here at the bar who will be able to enlighten us . . .
Eric at 10:59 PM yesterday: I think that should my travels take me out to your part of the country, I'll "pack my heat," just to stay on the "safe side." The "wild west" LIVES in Phoenix! <grin>
Union Station in Can-Am City will indeed have a subway station beneath it. Precisely where though will depend upon the obstructions beneath the board. As you may recall, the entire layout was constructed using varying sizes of plywood base supported by folding metal "card table" legs. These legs provide all kinds of "challenges" for anything beneath the board. However, I've deduced that there is sufficient room for two simple ovals of track - one for the "Red" line and the other for the "Brown" (or GREEN as Pete would have it!!). Station platform will have a train on either side in opposite directions. As indicated, the materials are on hand - just a matter of getting a ROUNDTUIT! <grin>
Crowds at Union Station Well, that really depends on one's vantage point. Once you see the layout, I think you'll find there is plenty of activity amongst the "little people" who frequent the terminal!
I believe all of the former CPR hotels and lodges are still in operation, but of course under varying ownerships. Some of those structures are truly magnificent in design and most probably could not be replicated in today's world - far too costly, plus the artisans would be difficult to find for the special touches and so forth.
DL at 5:20 AM today: Outstanding info on the WWII "info" provided to American troops arriving in Great Britain. Whether promulgated by the Brits or Yanks, the idea was a good one and although "lost" on some, I'd like to think it helped a great deal to knock down a barrier or three for the arriving forces. The "Over paid, over sexed and over here" mantra lives on to this day! <grin> An awful lot of those gals returned with their Yanks to this country following the war. All "contributions" to a healthy society most welcome! <grin>
UK visit: If I were to make the trip alone, it would be a simple affair for the scheduling and I'd love to coincide it with the running of significant steam excursions. However, the bride has a schedule - called work - and our "windows" will be limited to those times when (the) university is not in session (including summers). That plus the trip will include other aspects aside from railroading (perish the thought!! <grin>) Anyway, appreciate the recommendations and all of the "stuff" is now a part of my "heap" of "things to know about GB passenger rail trips."
Figured YOU'd have Pete's "quiz" wired! You guys are in cahoots, fer sure, fer sure! <grin> I should <tweet> the lotofya! <ooooooh>
Wonderful URLs - that "Coronation" looks magnificent! Too bad these fine Pix have to contain all of the "protection" of this ‘n that - as if it really prevents use by others in the Ether! But that's for another day!
Mike at 6:40 AM today: The shots of Matewan surely depict a rather lonely spot nestled in the "hills" of West Virginia. Only black ‘n white can bring out the "feel" for the place. Thanx for finding ‘em!
Only thing missing behind those KATY Alco's are passenger cars! <geesh> But they are beauties and love to look at em!
That steamer departing Cincinnati's Union Terminal is impressive as well. But for me, it's the structure. Having called that area "home" for a large part of my military career, I can "relate."
Awesome FMs!
Sooooooooo, that should catch me up with "youse guys"! Hope we hear from Lars soon, but if not, it's understandable. I think being away should mean just that - AWAY! Doesn't mean he isn't missed, for he is.
Catch y'all later!
G'day!
Oh what a tangled web we weave when trying to decieve! A near-quote attributed to someone with far greater use of the vernacular than I. But, the point is: <tweeeeeet> <tweeeeet> Rules Violation! Rules Violation! Using the "edit" feature to disguise a Previously Posted PhooooPar (P3) - and - Using the "edit" feature indiscriminately thereby causing viewers to see a Previously Posted Post Posted at a Time Not Indicative of the Most Current (P4TNIMC)! <phew>
No hiding now, "silent Mike!" You Sir, have the responsibility for cleaning the Rat's Patoot Room for these two flagrant violations. One would think you as a newcomer, rather than a member of our "Order of the Stools!" <geesh>
Nice "Tweety Bird," though . . . clever, really clever! <grin>
Tom, Proprietor and Chief <tweeter> of "Our" Place!
PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #4
first Posted on page 129 Here's something to ponder with regard to our appreciation and fascination with Classic Trains. Check this out (from The Official Guide of the Railways - 1956) Did you know that the Canadian National Railways also owned and operated hotels in major cities along their main lines Check these out: CANADIAN NATIONAL HOTELS, LTD. City......................Name......................Rooms.......Open Ottawa, ON........... Chateau Laurier......... 550......... All year Winnipeg, MN....... The Fort Garry........... 265.......... All year Edmonton, AB....... The MacDonald......... 480......... All year Saskatoon, SK...... The Bessborough....... 260......... All year Vancouver, BC....... Hotel Vancouver........ 560......... All year Halifax, NS........... The Nova Scotian...... 150.......... All year Charlottetown, PE.. The Charlottetown...... 110......... All year St. John's, NL....... Newfoundland Hotel... 140......... All year Montreal, QC........ Queen Elizabeth......... ----......... Under construction Note: Hotel Vancouver operated jointly by CNR and CPR. Enjoy! Tom
Little Known Operating Railroads #1 The White Pass & Yukon Route Railway (WPY)
Intially Posted on Page 283 of the "original" Thread . . . Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources. Reporting marks: WPY Locale: Alaska, northern British Columbia, Yukon Territory Dates of operation: 1898-1982, 1988 - present Track gauge: 3 ft (914 mm) Headquarters: Skagway, Alaska The White Pass and Yukon Route (WP&Y, WP&YR) (AAR reporting mark WPY) is a narrow gauge railroad linking the port of Skagway, Alaska with Whitehorse, the capital of Canada's Yukon Territory. An isolated system, it has no connection to any other railroad. The railroad is operated by the Pacific and Arctic Railway and Navigation Company (in Alaska), the British Columbia Yukon Railway Company (in British Columbia) and the British Yukon Railway Company, originally known as the British Yukon Mining, Trading and Transportation Company (in Yukon Territory), which use the trade name White Pass and Yukon Route. Construction The line was born of the Klondike Gold Rush of 1897. The most popular route taken by prospectors to the gold fields in Dawson City was a treacherous route from the nearest port in Skagway or Dyea, Alaska across the mountains to the Canadian border at the summit of the Chilkoot Pass or the White Pass. There, the prospectors would not be allowed across by the Canadian authorities unless they had a full ton of supplies with them. There was a need for a better transportation scheme than the pack horses used over the White Pass or people's backs over the Chilkoot Pass. This need generated numerous railroad schemes. In 1897, the Canadian government received 32 proposals for Yukon railroads, most of which were never realized. In 1897, three separate companies were organized to build a rail link from Skagway to Fort Selkirk, Yukon, 325 miles (525 km) away. Largely financed by British investors, a railroad was soon under construction. A 3 foot (914 mm) gauge was chosen; the narrower roadbed required by a narrow gauge railroad made for big cost savings when that roadbed had to be carved and blasted out of the mountain rock. Even so, 450 tons of explosives were used to reach White Pass summit. The narrow gauge also allowed for a tighter radius to be used on curves, making the task easier by allowing the railroad to follow the landscape more, rather than having to be blasted through it. Construction started in May 1898. On July 21, 1898, an excursion train hauled passengers for four miles (6 km) out of Skagway, the first train to operate in Alaska. On July 30, 1898, the charter rights and concessions of the three companies were acquired by the White Pass & Yukon Railway Company Limited, a new company organized in London. Construction reached the 2,885-foot summit of White Pass, 20 miles (30 km) away from Skagway, by mid-February 1899. The railway reached Bennett, British Columbia on July 6, 1899. In the summer of 1899, construction started north from Carcross to Whitehorse, 110 miles (178 km) north of Skagway. The construction crews working from Bennett along a difficult lakeshore reached Carcross the next year, and the last spike was driven on July 29, 1900, with service starting on August 1, 1900. However, by then, much of the Gold Rush fever had died down. "Drumhead" logos such as this often adorned the ends of observation cars on the WP&Y. Operations before World War II However, serious professional mining was taking its place; not so much for gold as for other metals such as copper, silver and lead. The closest port was Skagway, the only route there was via the White Pass & Yukon Route's river boats and railroad. While ores and concentrates formed the bulk of the traffic, the railroad also carried passenger traffic, and other freight. There was, for a long time, no easier way into the Yukon Territory, and no other way into or out of Skagway except by sea. Financing and route was in place to extend the rails from Whitehorse to Carmacks, but there was chaos in the river transportation service, resulting in a bottleneck. The White Pass instead used the money to purchase most of the riverboats, providing a steady and reliable transportation system between Whitehorse and Dawson City. While the WP&YR never built between Whitehorse and Fort Selkirk, some minor expansion of the railway occurred after 1900. In 1901, the Taku Tram, a 2½-mile (4 km) portage railroad was built at Taku City, British Columbia, which was operated until 1951. It carried passengers and freight between the S.S. Tutshi operating on Tagish Lake and the M.V. Tarahne operating across Atlin Lake to Atlin, British Columbia. (While the Tutshi was destroyed by a suspicious fire around 1990, the Tarahne was restored and hosts special dinners including murder mysteries. Lifeboats built for the Tutshi's restoration were donated to the Tarahne.) The Taku Tram could not even turn around, and simply backed up on its westbound run. The locomotive used, the Duchess, is now in Carcross. In 1910, the WP&YR operated a branch line to Pueblo, a mining area near Whitehorse. This branch line was abandoned in 1918; a haul-road follows that course today but is mostly barricaded; a Whitehorse Star editorial in the 1980s noted that this route would be an ideal alignment if the Alaska Highway should ever require a bypass reroute around Whitehorse. While all other railroads in the Yukon (such as the Klondike Mines Railroad at Dawson City) had been abandoned by 1914, the WP&YR continued to operate. During the Great Depression, traffic was sparse on the WP&YR, and for a time trains operated as infrequently as once a week. World War II With the outbreak of World War II, things took a distinct turn for the busier. Alaska became of strategic importance for the United States; there was much worry that the Japanese might invade it, as the nearest part of the United States to Japan. The US Army took control, bringing some newly built and many used steam locomotives (such as the USATC S118 Class) from closed US narrow gauge lines to the railroad. There are two persistent myths that show up in almost every book or article whi
Good evening Tom and friends. I'll have a tankard of dark ale, buy a round and front the quarters for some tunes. Got a few minutes to scan the posts, and was mightily impressed by the efforts of the few who have taken their time to impart such terrific reading for us all. Loved the English wartime material DL, and the White Pass and Yukon info was incredible, Sir Knight Tom. Good shows to Pete and CM3 as well. Pretty impressive that Lars finds time to post during his travels.
Mike got tweeted! How scandalous!
Here at the homefront in blustery Chicagoland, we're still mighty busy. Got some major Groundhog celebrating commencing this Friday in Woodstock. Nothing like the festivals in Punxsutawney PA, but we do pretty well. The bride and I have tickets for the breakfast at the courthouse after the prognostication ceremonies, as well as the dinner/dance at the Moose lodge in the evening. Both locations were used in the Bill Murray "Groundhog Day" film.
Sunday of course is Superdee-Duperdee Day for my Bears. I say it's anyone's game, but of course will be supporting a hometown win. I'm hoping to find a little time in the morning to put together some pix for ya'll. It's been too long since I contributed.
Have a great evening and another round on me!
Hi Tom and all
A nice winter ale for this chilly day please RUTH.
ERIC There is some really good exhibits in the Museum of Transportation. I have been there a couple of times and it's amazing how quick the time goes.
Glad to be of help with the TOPS numbering.
Thanks for the details on the Mc Cormick Railroad Park. I had a look at their web-site it looks a great place to visit. That is a good-looking loco in your pic and what a great name for a railroad Paradise & Pacific.
DL I had not heard of the "Warm Beer" reason before and this is a great little book in the link.
I wonder if the DMU Buffet car on the GCR was the only surviving vehicle from the Swindon Built class 120 DMUs These were known as Cross-Country units having more comfort than the usual DMUS. They were reconisable by having two larger square windows at the front of the unit instead of the three rectangular windows on most of the other first generation DMUs. They mainly worked on the Western Region when new but most later moved to the London Midland Region. They were a very common sight in the East Midlands as quite a number were allocated to Derby Etches Park depot some others were allocated to Manchester's Newton Heath Depot.
Another batch was around Inverness in Scotland these were of a later batch that had the four-caracture headcode panel beneath the windows. I recall using the buffet on one on the Aberdeen to Inverness run. I don't think the buffets were in use when the units were at Derby. Some of the units worked there last days on the Glasgow to Ayr line just before that line was electrified. I founds the 120s very comfortable units with some caracture to them, all in all my favorite DMUs.
A pic of a 120 DMU.
http://tonyhunter2814.fotopic.net/p2937563.html
The Keighly and Worth Valley Railway had a class 101 DMU Buffet car that used to serve real ale on draught. I can remember, just about, drinking Old Peculiar on tap in the hot summer of 1976 in the units buffet. I had a look at their stock list but could not see it, perhaps the car has moved.
Another units I thought that had a good buffet was in some of the Southern Region main line Electric Multiple Units which have been replaced over the last few years. As far as I know none of the new units have a buffet counter. Perhaps you can confirm this for me.
Great pics of the Coronation Scot train and the beaver tail cars. The Severn Valley Railway and, I believe, the North Yorkshire Moors Railway run rakes of Gresley teak coaches on their railways
A pic of an A4 on Gresley coaches on the NYMR
.http://www.well-hill.demon.co.uk/lnerca/
The Steam Railway editor has just recently taken over as editor it is good to see him going out and meeting enthusiasts. The current issue has a 20 page special on the A4s hopefully it will arrive here soon. Steam Railway first came out in 1979
The other magazine I have on subscription sent over here is The Railway Magazine. I have been having this magazine for over 40 years, with just a gap in 1969 to 1971 when I lost some of my interest in railways after steam finished on BR. Later I got a set of bound volumes from 1950 to 1963 the year when the RM changed to a larger format. They are over here now. My father used to get me the Trains Illustrated from the late 50s to the early 60s.
I have noticed with the two mags on subscription that they apparently come via Germany, (it was Switzerland) according to a sticker on the plastic envelope they come in. The E-mail I got back from the Steam Railway publishers tried to say the problem was this side but as my mate sends my a parcel, with Rail mags in he has read,and it arrives here in 4 to 7 days usually, which is not bad at all. Although I have to say the price I charged by SR and RM to send them here is not bad. It sounds the service you get from Kalmbach with Classic Trains is 1st class. As you say you can see Trains on sale in some of the shops but Classic trains is a lot harder to find over there.
MIKE Oh dear being Tweeted for showing Tweety Pie
Great set of links again. Some marvelous black and white pics and many thanks for the Great Central link. I ran it in slide show and felt very nostalgic from the early days of preservation. Also there are some great pics of the semaphore signaling the volunteers have built. I wonder if any one spotted the United States Army Transportation Corps loco at Loughbourgh shed.
TOM Yes learnt my lesson, for a while, and using WP. Although we are down in numbers at the moment I agree there are some great posts and someone to clean out the Rat's Patoot room as well.
If it is all righ
Wednesday's Witticism
One guy said that our coffee tasted like dirt. Well it should, it was ground right before it was brewed!
Last day of a loooooooong month! <yay> Another cold start here in mid-continent USA, 8 (F) - it IS winter! A great way to begin your day is to check out The Mentor Village Bakery case, a <light> or <traditional> breakfast from the Menu Board and of course a mug of our steaming hot, freshly ground ‘n brewed coffee <unleaded> ‘n <regular>! Ummmmmmmm.
For awhile it appeared as if I was talking to myself yesterday, about the only hi-light during the daytime was getting "silent Mike" to square away the Rat's Patoot Room!
Acknowledgments:
Doug at 5:00 PM yesterday: A near-cameo appearance by the barndad! Old habits are hard to break, eh
Glad that someone appreciated the WP&Y material! It was a fun-time putting that one together as I learned more than not regarding a little known railway running between Alaska ‘n Canada's Yukon. Good stuff if I say so myself!
Exciting times in your neck of the woods, eh Groundhog's Day Gala, et al! Enjoy.
Pete at 5:21 PM yesterday: Yours was the final Post of the day - once again! Nevertheless, always good to have you on board and found your comments on point, as usual.
Nice visibility in the cab for the DMU! The URL wouldn't load straight away, had to cut ‘n paste to get it. Nice material!
Glad I was able to call up Sir Nigel Gresley and the 7 coach train - most interesting!
Wellllllllllllllll, "silent Mike" wasn't really <tweeted> for Posting the Tweety Bird . . . Did you note the appearance of the Rat's Patoot Room
I think your Titanic rivet answer was for the Starboard side - I had asked for Port! <grin> Nice try!
Today is our OPTIONAL Toy 'n Model Trains Day! for anyone interested in sharing Pix and narratives . . .
10,000th Post CONTEST update (in order of submission):
Feb 14th - BK
Feb 15th - Lars
Mar 12th - Pete
Jan 1st - James
Jan 28th - Eric
Jan 18th - DL
Feb 8th - Doug
Jan 31st - Rob
Mar 15th - CM3
PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #5
Initially Posted on Page 133 of the "original" Thread . . . . Here's something to ponder with regard to our appreciation and fascination with Classic Trains. Check this poster out regarding the Canadian Pacific from 1886: A Red Letter DAY For - Canada June 28, ‘86 ... WHEN THE ... CANADIAN PACIFIC Railway OPENS to the PACIFIC OCEAN .......... TRAIN LEAVES DAILY: .......... Toronto, - - - - - - 5.00 p.m. Montreal - - - - - - 8.00 " Ottawa, - - - - - - 11.45 " .......... except Sunday .......... OUR OWN LINE .......... FROM THE .......... ATLANTIC to the PACIFIC NO CUSTOMS - NO DELAYS - NO TRANSFERS - LOW RATES - QUICK TIME for further particulars apply to any Agent of the Company, or to W. D. HUGHES, Traveling Passenger Agent W. R. CALLAWAY, District Passenger Agent .......... 110 King Street West, Toronto .......... W. C. VAN HORNE, Vice President GEO. OLDS, Cust. Traffic Manager D. McNICOLL, General Pass. Agent .......... MONTREAL.......... Enjoy! Tom
I'll have pint of Shipstones Mild please.
I thought you'd like the US serviceman's publication. It must have been considered worthwhile because they produced one for English speaking allied forces on conduct in France after the D-Day landings I believe.
I enjoyed the CPR / CNR hotel list - I've had a look round the Royal York, The Queen Elizabeth, The Nova Scotian, Chateau Frontenac and Le Manoir Richelieu, never stayed in any of them though!
If I get a chance to stay in a hotel I like to try the former British Transport Hotels here in the UK, they were owned by the railways until about 1981 when the government privatised them, and in fact sold them at a giveaway price to various hotel chains, some who sold them on pretty quickly at a big profit because their city centre locations were prime real estate. The Queens Hotel at Leeds City Station is nice, but sadly the Lochalsh Hotel overlooking the Isle of Skye in one of the best locations in Scotland has been allowed to become a shadow of its former self.
I'm sure a UK trip any time can slot in a decent preserved railway steam run - there are plenty to choose from. Some can cunningly (and conveniently) be combined with other tourist activity for those with less rail minded interests!
Doug - nice to see you!
Pete - I reckon that warm beer explanation is highly apocryphal!
I think you are correct about the DMU Buffet car on the GCR - I checked the railcar website and it lists the only Cl 120 car preserved as a buffet on the GCR - too co-incidental to be anything else. I never rode in one, they having left Derby before I got to this area in the late 1980s. Interestingly the site does not list any Class 101 buffets preserved, so that one you rode in at KWVR back in '76 is probably no longer with us. I wonder if it was asbestos lined and they just decided to scrap it. Shame as there are no 101 buffet cars left now, yet plenty of 101s in preservation as the lease companies gave the last ones all away to preserved lines when they finally withdrew them I think.
In fact being from the south I grew up very much in electric territory and the only DMUs were the DEMUs of the SR which were a different beast (the only really comfortable ones being the Hastings Line units built with narrow bodies and ‘main line' style seating - all the others being high density suburban seating for some reason). If as a family we travelled north of London in the 1970s (which was rare) we would have been on Inter City trains. So when I first started encountering the Deisel Mechanical Units - which by then were often a good 15 to 20 years old - they seemed very much like a 2nd class product - with their distinctive rattling idle and noise of the engine changing gear like a bus, not to mention strong small of diesel fumes - that was all new to me. Of course I came to learn to be interested in them, but looking back it perhaps shows how I had an early lesson in how outside the south east of England rail investment is often very lacking. I suppose back in the early 1960s they were a step change from the steam trains for many ordinary passengers (the info on the 120s showed they made a rapid acceleration of services on the Inverness Aberdeen route in 1960 ish).
One design I always thought was very stylish was the Trans Pennine Units with the wrap round front windows - never saw one in real life though and all got scrapped - sad. Class 124 as shown here for others following this:
http://www.railcar.co.uk/his120-129/124intro.htm
SR Buffet Cars
You mentioned SR buffet cars - you mean the 4-BIG and 4-BEP (for the Kent area) using SR classification system (4-BIG being a 4-CIG with a Buffet, IG being the LBSCR telegraphic code for Brighton!)
As seen here
http://www.semg.org.uk/gallery/class421_01.html
I really liked the 4-BIGs as we used the Brighton line regularly (and I often would even go to School on a 4-Big or 4 CIG most days - if we were unlucky we'd get a 4 VEP - much less comfy). If I was with my mother as a small child she would often take me to the Buffet car for a snack and you could sit in the loose chairs etc which was a treat. If it was going south from London at the end of the day there would often be a few commuters having a drink and a smoke on the way home from work - so it was like a pub to some extent - as a child such an atmosphere was pretty much forbidden territory, a very adult world at any rate - which made it seem all the more exotic to me! Of course now it is rare to find a pub which won't let children in (more's the pity!)
Sadly, immediately after privatisation the private operator scrapped the buffet cars and run the services with them shut up, then as soon as they could, removed the cars completely - they were never interested in providing a proper buffet car for people to go and eat and drink in (something that I thought Amtrak and Via would find unacceptable until I sampled Ren stock on The Corridor where second class food service was trolley only - ugghh) - As you say the new SR EMU units (Electrostars) have no buffet cars.
HOWEVER - I think the Class 442 EMUs built in the 1980s for the Bournemouth / Weymouth line did / do have buffet cars - they use the Mk3 body shell I think. However, I've never ridden one of these and in a complete shock to me have just learned that South West Trains have withdrawn them all earlier this month! They are in sidings out of use! However, there was speculation in Rail Magazine that Southern might lease them - so could this mean a return of buffet cars to the Brighton Line - I hope so!
Here is one
http://www.semg.org.uk/gallery/class442_1.html
And these interior pics show the buffet area:
http://www.semg.org.uk/gallery/class442_6.html
I had a good trip in an LNER teak coach some years ago - it was a very hot summer day and I went for a trip out on my birthday to the Severn Valley line - nicely restored. The line was not too busy that day so I recall us having the whole coach to ourselves. They look the piece in varnished teak!
I've never seen Classic Trains in the UK for sale, but I bought one at the station bookstall in Denver before getting on the C-Zephyr and enjoyed it. A relative in Canada suggested a subscription as a gift for me, which I gratefully accepted.
Does Trains Illustrated still exist? - 3 of the early 60s mags a pal loaned me are Trains Illustrated and I enjoyed reading them as I mentioned before (others being Modern Railways). Give a real insight into the issues of the day - I suppose it is like reading any original historical ‘source material' as our academic friends would say.
Sorry - long post here - I've diverted off onto a number of things Pete has made me think of - trust this is not too tedious for others!
Regards
PS Tom - I enjoyed the White Pass info too! I'm going to look up their schedule in my Thomas Cook world wide timetable.
Good Afternoon Barkeep and All Preset, coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox. I apologize for not posting yesterday, but we have had BIG TIME server problems such as pages taking 15 minutes to load, etc. I would have done better with dial up smoke signals. Anyway, it seems to be doing a little better today. Weather was 4 to 5 degrees this a.m. with about 2 inches of flufffy "partly cloudy." I guess we are going to get clocked tomorrow. As always we are in the news, this time with a gas station explosion approx 5 miles from where I sit at the moment. A real bad one - you have probably seen it on CNN.
I have enjoyed reading through posts, exploring links, etc.
Pete sent us some wide-ranging comments.
Mike's epictures of Matewan show the brick buildings I mentioned in my previous posts. I havea pcture in my stack of stuff which shows a bullet hole through the front window of the local bank - a resuly of the gunplay in town.
I agree with our 'steamed proprietor re CUT. We used to ride the L&Ns "Pan American" to Cinci. from Nashville. Then take the N&Ws "Pocahontas" from there to Roanoke. They had a good deal where, for a mimumum amount of $ you could get a roomette and breakfast the next morning. The train also had a former Wabash dome which was a nice post for viewing the scenery along the Pokey. Then get on a joitn N&W/SOU train (IIRC, remains of old Tennessean at least on the schedule) which operated from Bristol to Washington, DC. heavyweight copaches which rode like Pullmans. There were many options available to the traveler upon arrival in DC, of course. I didn't mean to get off on that tangent.
DL - Yes to your question about location. In fact I have a nice view of rolling hills, etc. out my living room window. Thanks to our 'steamed proprietor for the NKP material. The first shot (the one with the Union 76 sign) was taken in the Kanawha Valley. The second was at Deepwater, WV. IIRC, I talked about Deepwater not too long ago. The thrid shot was made at Mongomery, WV; a college town just a little east of Charleston. The picture from the vestibule was taken along New River. The river is out of sight beyond the trees on the right hand side of the picture. If you look carefully you can see where the second mainline was being removed; the ties and rail were there but the rail was abviously awaiting pickup. C&O did theis to save $, but when I moved down eher yrs ago, the second track was still in place and used. The overhead shot was made at the Hawks Nest overlook. The C&O mainline was (and still is) on both sides of the river. The train is on the north side, if you look REAL hard you can barely see the other min line on the south side of the river. BTW, you can ride over and through all of this on Amtrak's "Cardinal." The train runs in the daylight eastboiund at all seasons, but you get a daylight ride westbound pretty much only in the summer and fall.
Also thanks for CN, CP, and WP&Y material. I did dine at the Royal York when in Toronto, but stayed at the Harbpor Castle (better deal with an Aior Canada tie in from Boston).
Almost fogot to mention to Eric - the exhibition mine is getting renovated - it'll be better than ever when they get doen. Otherwise, everything else is up and running.
work safe
The noon hour and it's lunch time here at the Bar by the Ballast! Good crowd this afternoon, as the boys from the Mills Bros. Lumber Yard (just down the gravel road) have taken a liking to this place at lunch time. Anyway, our sandwich specials are listed on the Menu Board, so place your order . . . . Ruth, take your break now, I'll handle things 'til you get back.
What a difference a day makes with some "day light" Postings from DL 'n CM3!
DL at 11:22 AM today: Quite an epistle from our 'cross the pond representative! Covered quite a bit in that one. Some super fine links and one can easily spend an hour browsing here 'n there. The DMUs show up well and I particularly liked the design of the 442 unit with that "wrap around" window on either side of the cab. Looks "cool"!
All of those hotels in the CPR 'n CNR livery (of old) are in the expensive category to say the least. However, that aside, just to stay in one or more of 'em has been a treat. Wouldn't make a habit of it if on a limited budget, but for a special occasion, what the heck . . . !
I too received my introduction to Classic Trains as a gift back when the 50th Anniversary of CPRs "The Canadian" was featured. My bride "sensed" that there was something 'special' about that magazine and she set me up for a long-term subscription. And this at a time when I was griping and grimmacing about the Model Railroader mags pretty much piling up. Was gong to drop the latter - but didn't. The Can-Am Trainroom now has a couple of shelves containing a few zillion copies of 'em.
Wolfman Pete has decided to "add' to my collection of RR mags with "deposits" of his Brit versions (Steam Railway & Rail) and Kalmbach's Trains. Anyone coming to the Rendezvous needs to take along an empty suit case for the surplus mags that will be available!
CM3 at 11:55 AM today: Just read about the explosion at Ghent, WVA. Certainly never a good situation and the article is rather sobering. Here's the URL for those interested:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/01/30/gas.station.blast/index.html
Surely would like to view the Hawk's Nest but even moreso, travel the route by Amtrak. Domes would be a natural, eh Superliner Sightseer lounge cars would do just fine as well!
Appreciate the quarters for Herr Wurlitzter via the Coal Scuttle and of course the round! With a house full, this is gonna cost ya! Of course, with that Fed overtime pay . . . <grin>
We're expecting about an inch of "fluffy partly cloudy" before the 'morrow with more to come at the end of the week. Still waiting for that REAL winter snow we haven't had for sooooooo long. <geesh> My first winter in these parts was 1977-78 and that was an eye opener. We had just relocated from southern Virginia (Tidewater) and the kids were in heaven once they experienced snow (again). After 5 years of hardly any winter at all, they picked up right where we left off in New England (8 years worth). Loved the winters . . . .
Thanx for supplementing those Pix I provided via the URL with your descriptions. Makes 'em complete, fer sure, fer sure!
Appears as if the St. Louis Blues (NHL) blew their slim hopes of reaching the playoffs. Instead of being 6 points away from the 8th "seed," they are now 10. Didn't look very spirited for 2 of the 3 periods and my guess is the attendance will show the disapproval in games to come. This is definitely a baseball town. Although I've been to many a Blues game where the joint was rockin' and all the seats were full (20 thousand). These days they are lucky to draw 16k; last night they had 10k. There's a demand for the expendable dollar - especially with the gambling casinos in town. It costs an easy $100 just to get seats for two for a game, and those aren't in the lower level! Add a few snacks, beverages, program 'n parking and you're easily in the $200 range. Just for ONE game. Yeah, right.
Catch y'all later (maybe)!
OPTIONAL Toy 'n Model Trains Day!
Some Pix from the Can-Am HO layout . . . .
Mills Bros. Lumber Yard
Truck Terminal
Truck 'n Rail Center
Can-Am City Main Street
Can-AM City VIA Rail HQ
Can-Am City Bus Depot
Enjoy!
siberianmo Nice pics!
Well, it's a sultry 16 degrees, up from a cool 6 earlier today. Why are the weathermen right now???
underworld
Having a bad time with the puter lost what I was writing in word so I will start again, something strong please LEON. Luckily the Rat's Patoot room is all clean again so I will go in there for a while
TOM it is snowing here now and it could be up to a couple of inches by morning,
Really enjoyed the White Pass and Yukon. It was good to read of the Tuku Tram and about the 800 Mac Arthur narrow gauge locos that were built. How lucky it was when the White Pass closed in 1982 that the track and infrastructure was left intact so that it could be opened again 6 years later..
Glad you liked the pic of the 120 DMU. The passenger compartment was right behind the driver and was separated from him by a wooden partition with large windows, so you could get right behind the driver and get his view of the track ahead. The section directly behind the driver was often the 1st class area. In later years the 1st class was done away with on these units but the 1st class seats were kept, they were very comfortable.
Great to see the Can-Am it is good to see the guys at Mill Bros Lumber hard at work no doubt fortified by the good lunch at Our Place.
Thanks for the Canadian Pacific poster from 1886 when they reached the Pacific a red-letter day indeed.
DOUG Great to see you in and thanks for the beer. I hope the weather behaves itself for the Woodstock version of Groundhog Day.
Good luck to the Bears Sunday and I hope you are able to post some pics as Sunday is not the same without them.
CM3 That was indeed a terrible explosion so near to you. I looked at the video in Tom's link to the news.
Thanks for the descriptions to the link Tom provided. Showing Hawk's Nest and loco 765. That is a good web-site with the link to the Cass Scenic Railroad and those great pics of the Shays there.
DL I am afraid I have led you astray with the info on the K&WVR DMU buffet car. It was class 111 it was built by Metro-Cammell and looks, to me, exactly the same as a class 101. The only difference I can find is that the class 111 Motor cars had slightly more powerful engines made by Rolls-Royce whereas the 101s had B.U.T. engines. The Ex K&WVR car is not far from you at the Midland railway Centre at Butterley Derbyshire
http://www.railcar.co.uk/pics/Preserved/110-119/111/59575.htm
I found the pic on the same great web site you posted the Trans Pennine unit on. If you have a look at the Preserved vehicles, centre cars, Dmu page, at the bottom are the cars that have been scraped in preservation days, unfortunately it seems, as some were DMU buffet cars.
YES the Trans Pennine (Class 124) were stylish units. I can recall seeing some at Liverpool Lime Street station in the mid 1960s in their original green livery. They finished their days working on the Manchester to Hull or Cleethorpes via Sheffield run, where the Trans Pennine cars were mixed with the Swindon built class 123 Intercity units. The 123 units had a corridor connection on the front.
The Dmus no doubt saved some branch lines from closure although being a steam buff we were sad to see them replace steam. Most of them were a good buy for BR as some like the 101s gave almost 50 years service. To my mind the Pacer units (Classes 140 etc) which replaced them were nowhere near as good, although the Sprinters (Classes 150etc) are not bad.
Great link to the Southern Emus and your experience of the buffets, I never knew IG was the code for Brighton. I always enjoyed traveling in the Southern Emus they somehow seemed to have character, something I find sadly lacking in the new units.
I did not know that the 442s or 5WES as the old code was, (WES for Wessex I believe,) have been withdrawn by South West Trains. I though some had just been refurbished. They would be great units for the FAST Brighton services although with only two doors per side on each car it could cause a problem loading and unloading at busy times if they were used on services with many stops. I have ridden them a few times and quite like them. I believe that they are the last cars owned by BR that still have compartments, as in the pic of the first class compartment.
Trains Illustrated changed its name to Modern Railways in about 1962. There has been the odd magazine that has used the Trains Illustrated name but not for a while now, I think. It was published by Ian Allan who publishes railway books and used to publish the Locospotters ABCs, which the ones from the 50s, if unmarked, are worth a fortune. especially the Combine Volumes.
Talking of Ian Allan they have a bookshop in Birmingham near the station, which sometimes had Classic Trains. I got Classic Trains on one of my early visits here in Kansas City, about 2002; I usually picked up a copy while over here. When I was in England it was a good excuse to get a West Midlands Day Tripper ticket and travel around the Birmingham area on a Saturday afternoon by train to pick up a copy. I once found a copy of Classic Trains in Walsall, it was funny though, that I always seemed to end up in the Great Western pub in Wolverhampton.
Well Tom, late again with my post so I had better get a round in LEON.
Pete.
Back down to 5 degrees tonight....can somebody send a small warm front???
G-day Tom and all present!
Leon- A coffee for me please.
I'm sorry that I have not been on in quite a while. My internet has been really, really slow. Like taking half an hour just trying to get to this page. So I have been off for some time.
This is the first time I have been able to get on so easily. Tomorrow the whole internet thing will be solved and I will beable to get backon.
But As I have just scanned over some of the articles and pictures left behind here and they all look great.
I will beable to post tomorrow much easier. Tonight is still ify.
Happy railroading
James
Good evening Leon, I think a hot toddy would be a good thing for this evening -22C at the moment.Well still in business, my latest difficulties were of the Bell Canada nature. My subdivision hasn't got burried lines yet, lets just say that the snow n ice kept me off the air these last couple of days ( daze ). On the upside Bell says that in the spring we get the upgraded burried lines and high speed internet installed. The rest of the cities been so equipped for at least 5 years, but my neighbourhood is over a 100 years old.
Any who I'm glad to see thing s still churning along, with alot of good stuff some new and some old to digest, a testiment to the few
Tom-Some very fine pics of the ole layout both today and on sunday.Nice to see the streets of CanAm are so clean and tidy Thanks for sharing the CPR and CNR hotel posts again.I aggree with you wholeheartedly,
The Fairmont prices are not for the faint if heart,but one stay I think is required in a lifetime. They are all fine fine establishments.Nice to see the White Pass story again,even better now that the line is at least partially running again. Yesterday was the final day of Terminal 2's existance in Toronto. You no longer have to deal with that gawd awfull terminal on Canada to US flights anymore. The new extention to terminal three is up and running. In the spring old number two's comming down and being replaced by an entirly new building.
Thiose prices for the Blue's games seem almost as outrages as Toronto's at least most if not all our games are televised on TV so I don't have to pay the piper as it were.I'm not sure what happened to the pics I posted on your other site. They popped up okay in my preview window,I'm thinking it was a Photobucket thing
DL-I;'m glad to see that you are still providing us with fine matreial from over home It's nice following the passenger train and equipment stories that you and Pete are so thoughtfuly providing us with.
Pete-Some fine pictures and some fine ongoing support from you sir 5x for that.I'm glad that you've been able to stick by us through these last couple trying months. Thanks for posting that PCC info for me. Hoppefully I won't have to use your services again,but it's nice to know that you were willing to forward things on for me if my access woes continued.Nice shots of your most recent train foray with the good captain as well. He wears that bar well ! <grin>
Eric-That was some nice looking live steam that you got to hitch a ride on,those large scale trains have always intrigued me.On a grand scale similar to that, the city of North Bay Ontario has put in a three and a half KM run of live steam along their waterfront,part of it's ongoing cleaning up.
You must really watch yourself in that neighbourhood of yours though, wow that's one time too many in my books,I would be moving out after one such incident. To answer your PCC question, I guess it was a matter of simplification, all electrical components made maintenance easier. No heavy compressors or any of the related airlines required. Made for lighter weight cars which was one of the selling features of the PCC in the first place. Their main claim to fame was their ability to keep up in modern traffic.Pcc's could easily beat autobiles off the line at red lights.The Toronto ones were able to get upto 60kph in 30 seconds ! The old air brake equipped heavy cars they replaced would easily take double that time. The electric brakes were also a quicker stop and you didn't have the fade like you would with an older possibly leaking air system.
Well hopefully I'll be able to keep on the right side of the forum and keep providing some input on a more regular basis.It was nice to see Mike and Doug and James pop in as well. Starting to feel a bit more like it should around here. I'm still trying to get my computer( more likely the operator ) to get some stuff pulled accross from the old forum. I still haven't been able to get that to work for me.
Rob
So Leon, I think another round of the good stuff while I attempt to bring up some new info,an attempt at least to get back into the swing of things here at the Saloon by the Siding.
CLASSIC STEAM #38 THE LAKE SIMCOE JCT RAILWAY
One of the main goals of the early railway builders in Ontario,was to tap the resorces of the Provinces hinterlands.Here was where the timber,minerals and the farmland resided. All vital to the new countries fledgling economy.The first lines were usually anchored to a lake port, and from there they wound their way inland to wherever their charter and their funding would take them.Often with many of the first lines this wasn't very far ,and many of the lines were simply built as portages.
While the Toronto & Nippissing Railway ( never even got close to lake nippissing ) was being built and wound it's way from Toronto to coboconk,it lacked a neccessary portage conection.Accordingly a feeder line was proposed from a point on the TN to Lake Simcoe,which was at that time a key transportation route for Ontario's early settlers, and lumber companies.
The Lake Simcoe Junction Railway,began ant Stouffville a booming town set amidst some of Ontario's finest farmland,and terminated at Sutton,with a spur extending to the warf at Jackson's point on Lake Simcoe.Watre tanks and a small coal facility were placed at Mount Albert,while two engine sheds were built in both Sutton and Stouffville.Eight stations and sidings were located along the line, with the buildings at Mount Albert and Sutton being built to the specs of the two stroy wood frame sattion at Stouffville. The rest were simple single stroyt buildings built in the style of the TN parent road.The station at Kirkfield still stands as does the TN station at Markham Ontario ( suburb of toronto ).
train service on the LSJ was not frequent. Two daily train mixed trains called at each station for the first three yeasr of operation,by the fourth year this was reduced to one,however by 1910 a full passeneger train was operating in each direction on the line.By 1917 this was reduced once again to just the one mixed train as the interurban rr The Toronto and York radial (TTC forerunner ) was offering daily excursions to Lake Simcoe on the faster, quieter and cleaner electric interurban cars.With this heavily patronised competition the LSJ cut train service back from Jakson's Point to Sutton ( thus not evening reaching ake Simcoe ).firhter competion arrived in 1919 in the form of the Canadian Northern's new transcontinnetal line which ran from Toronto northeast of Lake simcoe along the eastern shore of the lake. this line actually ran parallell to the LSJ,with the lines almost adjacent to each other at Mount Albert !
By 1928, the newly formed Canadian National had assumed control of both lines,and undertook a major line relocation project.They eliminated a section of the LSJ between stouffville and Zepher and moved the junction closer to Sutton to apoint along the higher quality Canadian Northern Line built between Zepher and Sutton.In 1928 thee CNR eliminated all tthe passenger runs on the remaining chunks of the LSJ, regulating it to opart time friegth only traffic.During the 30's - 50s' it was a major farm produce,livestock line feeding traffic to the CNR's eastern lines.Through the late 50's and into the 60's trains became less and less frequent with most of the produce going to trucks.1979 saw CN abandone the line , along with alot of it's other mid Ontario small yeild lines.
Good morning Captain Tom and all present!!
Hello Leon, I'll have a ham sandwich again!1 Yes, sugar cured ham that is. And coffee!
I missed last night! Things had to be taken care of so tonight I have to spend some time catching up! A lot of nice pictures and interesting info!
DL – Read with interest excerpts on how to behave whne coming from the US to UK during WWII. I understand that it was harder to look out from the Beaver Tail Observation Car in the original design. But the new design is kind of strange looking. Thanks for the links showing those cars being built and in the original design. Do you know how many they built?Thanks for all the info on EMU’s and the different cars, like the Buffet Cars. I am getting more and more familiar with British trains! Mike – Found some interesting photos on the links, like from Matewan and of the Katy’s locos! Thanks!Tom – We will do our best to keep the bar open and Ruth, Leon and Boris occupied! Now I always prepare my posts using my WP. It is much safer. I hate when I have written something and all of a sudden it is gone, lost for ever. I’ll see if I can find out anything about the signals between St. Louis and KCity. You can feel safe in Phoenix, wild west or not! Seems like you are planning a pretty good subway system in Can-Am City! I am looking forward to have a closer look at Can-Am City Union Station!Very nice pictures from Can-Am City! I was surprised (was I really) to find that VIA Rail is running trains to and from Can-Am City! Hmm. I also noticed that none of tractors at the truck terminal were equipped with a sleeper! I guess the railroad has been able to take over all long distance transports! I thought that those CPR hotels are independent today. It makes sense! I am sure the same goes for CN’s hotels. I see that CN and CPR jointly operated Hotel Vancouver!First I didn’t understand your A Red Letter Day ancore. I thought, what is the big deal? CP opens to the Pacific Ocean in 1986? After a little while I realized it was 1886! I wonder what the travling time was from Ottawa to the Pacific in those days?Very interesting info on WP&Y!! Sometime after retirement I am going to drive the Alaskan Highway all the way and I obviously have to plan a sidetrip to Skagway for a ride on WP&Y! Doug – I am also supporting the Bears on Sunday! All the way!!!Pete – I wouldn’t mind having that loco from McCormick RR Park in my backyard! But I guess the backyard is not big enough. Making room for things is always a problem. The house is way too small already. CM3 – I saw the news about that gas station explosion on CNN. Nothing left! Just debris! Unbelievable! I guess they are still investigating, trying to figure out what really happened. I have made a note about the exhibition mine on a list I have over places I want to visit. James – Glad to see you back and hopefully your Internet problems will be history from now on! Rob – Good to see that you were able to make it to the bar tonight! I am glad I am not in the Toronto area now. -22° C is way tooooo cold for me. Thanks for the PCC info! I remember the newest streetcars (from the late 40’s) in Stockholm could accelerate very quickly! But they all had compressor and all that stuff. One of them is shown in the picture below. I think I have shown that picture before. Stockholm had only 2 PCC’s. Bought in the early 50’s. I’ll see if I can find a picture of them. Thanks for the history of the Lake Simcoe Jct Railway! What year did they open? I have to buy me a good map of Canada. We have a real nice map store about two miles from the house and they should have something I could use.
Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox. Temp approx. 20 degrees at the house this a.m., so the K9s were a little less reluctant to head outside. All of this is to change over the weekend, however, as it looks as if we will be encountering the coldest air of the season so far.
Rob has reappeared with comments and historical material. If I start talking abt. hockey, I'll get escorted out, especially after Boston's recent performances against the Rangers and the Sabers. We get a lot of Pittsburgh Penguins here as Pittsburgh Sports feed (Fox) is on our cable system. I do enjoy watching Crosby.
James - OMI is coming out with Little Joes in N scale - they are expensive.
Eric visited with notes and comments.
I enjoyed the virtual tour provided by the CAN-AM industrial development department. It looks as though the railroad spares no expense to provide customer service. Is the subway going to be a subway or are you going to have some elevated trackage as well?
A little something for the Super Bowl.
While watching a football game a couple weeks back, my wife and I were discussing life and death.
I told her, "Just so you know, I never want to live in a vegetative state, dependent on some machine and fluids from a bottle. If that ever happens, just pull the plug."
She promptly got up, unplugged the TV and threw out all my beer.
Work safe
Denali Star - from my personal collection
A new month and a new Pix! Snow on the ground here in mid-continent USA, but only an inch. However, Juneau the Wonder Husky was in his element as we made the rounds earlier this AM! The deer were out as well, which made for an interesting "helter skelter" path for our predator! <grin>
The coffee's fresh ‘n hot - pastries at the ready from The Mentor Village Bakery - and the Menu Board shows some fine <light> ‘n <traditional> breakfasts. So, what's stoppin' ya
Yesterday's contributions made it "feel" as if this effort is indeed worth the while as we had a fine representation from the guys. We takes what we gets, ‘round here, but sure wish it could be on a more frequent basis! Thanx to all who stopped by!
ACKNOWLEDGMENTS:
Pete at 8:46 PM yesterday: Feel free to use the Rat's Patoot Room for whatever the purpose. Now that the place has been squared away, with the "chew containers" emptied, cleaned and shined, well, it's almost "nice". <grin> "Silent Mike" hasn't been seen or heard from since . . .
Appreciate the insight regarding the 120 DMU - never wuddaknown, fer sure, fer sure! Always interesting exchanges between you ‘n DL! Getting to become far more acquainted with the Brit trains than I ever thought. Great having the two of you on board!
Given a choice between "tripping around" by train to find railroad magazines OR a pub, guess which one I'd take <grin>
James at 9:35 PM yesterday: Noticed your Post over on "my other Thread" earlier in the week and wondered why you weren't here. Now we know. Appreciate the heads up and we'll be looking for your return when ‘puter issues are behind you!
Rob at 11:13 PM ‘n 11:46 PM yesterday: Figured it HAD to be something like ‘puter issues, power disruption, etc. to keep you "silent." Just like real life, eh - if it isn't one thing, it's ‘nother! <grin>
Those hockey tix are so overly priced that we've simply stopped going. We always tried to find seats in the "mid ranges" - but those now are ridiculous. Bought a pair from a friend who had season tix and they were near $100 apiece!! Ain't gonna make that mistake again. Majority of games here are also on the tube (cable mainly) and we enjoy the comfort of our Haus much more than the drive to ‘n from the arena, etc. Plus the beer "prices" are far more reasonable here.
Yeah, I had read about the Terminal 2 closure awhile back. Had a ceremony recently too, eh Anyway, my last Air Canada flight out of Pearson was when I returned from Halifax and the memorial service for my late friend a few months back. One of the flight attendants was telling me how happy they all were to FINALLY get rid of that set-up for flights to the U.S. Said she'd been putting up with it for well over 15 years and it was getting O-L-D.
Can-Am City's Public Works Dept. (CACPWD) does a creditable job at keeping things ‘ship-shape' - Schpic undt also Schpan, as Sgt. Schultz would say! (Hogan's Heroes)
Surely do NOT understand why you cannot COPY from the "old" Thread to this one. That just doesn't make sense. However, you're Classic Steam #38 is a "goodun" and in keeping with the types of submissions we've become accustomed to from our Ontario Connection!
Hopefully we'll be seeing more of you as without the new edition of the "bookends" (You ‘n Doug), this place doesn't operate quite as well.
Eric at 12:22 AM today: The return of our Resident Desert Swede! Good to see ya again and wondered if you'd been caught in one of those shoot-outs - heaven forbid!! Anyway, good observation about the tractors used for the trailers at Can-Am's Truck Terminal. No sleeper units permitted in Can-Am County and adjacent communities. Seems that the prohibition had something to do regarding allegations of illicit use and so forth. Methinks it has more to do with ensuring that the motels keep generating tax revenues than anything else. As if motels haven't been used for similar purposes! My oh my . . . .
Your idea of traveling the ALCAN highway is intriguing. It's quite the adventure and NOT for the faint of heart, fer sure, fer sure. Anyway, last time I checked, you can't get to Skagway on it. However, there is a highway leading south to Skagway, but it is (was) a rough piece of road and VERY seasonal, as are most of the highways in the 49th State.
We truly want to take that trip aboard the WP&Y, but have become so enamored with the memories from our recent trip aboard the ARR from Anchorage to Fairbanks and back that we're probably going to repeat that entire itinerary upon our return - just add a few more days for Denali.
That's a "funky" looking streetcar! <grin>
Just picked up on CM3s 8:39 AM Post: Good to see ya up 'n about the decks this AM!
Can-Am City's subway system will be entirely sub-surface. Perhaps one day, when I acquire my neighbors property, knock down a basement wall or three, to expand the layout, I'll be able to have those R17s 'n Red Birds grace the "top side." However, 'til then, it's the darkness for 'em!
Haven't seen much of the phenom Crosby since the Blues are in the West and he's in the East. Did see a bit of him at the All Star Game, but that's hardly reflective of the kid's abilities. Amazing talent, eh Wonder if the "Pens" will pack up 'n relcoate Ah yes, we shouldn't despair, after all, it IS a bus
A little something to read while having that 3rd cuppa Joe and maybe "just one more" from The Mentor Village Bakery case . . .
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/stlouiscitycounty/story/29F784A87C969008862572750012C9B2?OpenDocument
This should be of interest especially to those planning to attend our May Rendezvous!
As discussed here and over on the "old" Thread, St. Louis' Union Station was refrubrished and re-opened in 1985 as an "upscale Mall" WITHOUT operating trains. The developers at the time were against any such activity and wanted only to use the structure as a showcase for shops, restaurants, boutiques and the like. Over time there were a few "charter" trains that used the sidings, but as you can determine in the article, they've left. Too bad.
Amtrak is still located in a blighted area beneath Highway 40 where one risks life 'n limb to walk to 'n from at night. The station was housed in trailers from 1985 'til last year when a mainteance building was constructed and later decided to use it as the passenger station until St. Louis' Multi-Modal Station gets completed (2008 - supposedly).
So, that's the scoop, Gents . . . as the stomach turns! <grin>
I'll have a Shipstones Bitter please.
CM3 - sounds like a ride on The Cardinal is a good way to appreciate the scenery in your area, as I said it looks fine.
Tom, yes the Class 442 (or as Pete says 5 WES) units are stylish, built to Inter City levels of comfort whereas most other trains in south east England are configured for the commuter market - which means seating is more cramped and facilities less comfortable.
Pete - well the misleading thing started with myself anyway regarding the Class 101 Buffet cars! I've nto been to the Midland Railways Centre for a while - I think they made a good decision to build a high quality large shed to store much of their stuff safely. Sun and rain are the enemy of old equipment.
Am I right in saying the Trans Pennine 124 units were replaced by locomotive hauled stock, which was unusual, before the rather uncomfortable Class 158 units were built (now themselves being replaced by better stock - but sadly built overseas)?
5 WES units would be good for the fast Brighton trains in my view, and also the limited stop Eastbourne Services I think if the car length did not interfere with platform clearances - this is the issue as they are 22m long, not 20m long which the other new cars are. I think this is because of the standard Mk 3 Body shell they use.
It is bizarre that such high quality stock goes off lease when such plainly inadequate units as the 140 rail buses are still in service (albeit the power differences mean they are not a fit swap of course, but why build new stock to replace the 5-WES rather than things that need more urgent replacement!)
Of course, the 4 BIG buffet cars replaced the 6 PAN / PUL units
http://www.semg.org.uk/gallery/6pul.html
Which had a Pullman Parlour car in the rake - so I suppose back in 1960ish this must have seemed like a significant downgrading in quality on the Brighton lines, no doubt their were some compliments at the time.
In fact one of the Modern railways details a major cut back in buffet car facilities on SR lines in about 1964 when they reduced staffing from 2 to 1 person and stopped preparing hot meals, and also did not provide the service at weekends. The article said this was to cut back on a significant trading loss being accumulated.
I did not know Trains Illustrated and Modern Railways was the same magazine! Well there you go!
Rob - good to see you in, thanks for the post, interesting stuff.
Eric - I think the LNER just built two Beaver Tail cars (both shown in the picture of them under construction you mentioned) - one for the northbound and one for the southbound run - I think they were only used in the summer season too. Pete may know. Luckily both cars survived and both cars are getting restored. Pretty good news!
G'day Cap'n Tom & fellow travelers at the bar!
‘Tis the Larsman reporting in from the warmth of Florida's Keys! Marathon is a great place to be, especially when the temperatures up north have been rather wickedly cold!
Ruth my deAH, you'd look even more stunning in one of the "bathing suits" observed down here! <gasp>
Must have been a fabric shortage at the factory when those were made! <grin>
Anyway, a round for the house, double treats for the critters and a LARGE jar of pickled pig's feet for Boris! Ah yes, a Lars special hero sandwich too - mustAHd, buttAH, ham ‘n Swiss along with two large pickles from the barrel. Keep the change! Oh yeah, I'll take a double hit of JD on the rocks . . .
Want to thank Cap'n Tom for the use of the 'sign in' data, but it appears I've finally made it on my own. Couldn't log in yesterday, but had full access to all the other "thrills" of the internet!
Surely have missed the happenings here at my favorite saloon and have devoted much of the morning playing catch up. Actually, there was an awful lot from the Proprietor along with some mighty fine offerings from the "new regulars," which is good to see.
Our friend, Phil, and his lovely lady have a great place down here. I didn't realize they owned two residences, but that's neither here or there, huh Point is, they have a terrific place to escape the winter's wrath and do so every year. Can't say as I blame them, for winters up in Plattsburgh are quite different from those here in the middle Keys of Florida! <grin> What a place this is!!
We are definitely thinking very seriously about relocating or if not that, using our funds from the sale and settlement of our summer place up in the mountains for the purchase of a condo here. The Mrs. doesn't want to return, EVER! She's as happy as I've seen in many a moon. Of course, reality still exists back home and I suspect she'll be making a jaunt back up there to ensure all's going well with the "hospice" left behind.
Phil has tickets for the Super Bowl. That's no joke and we'll be attending. Right now the gals are talking about sitting it out, but either way, watch for the big bald "square head" on the tube. Maybe I'll paint my "dome" with something appropriate. How about an ad for "Our" Place This will be a first for me, as I've never been to a Super Bowl. Phil takes these things in stride, but it's rather hard for me to conceal my excitement. Living like this CAN become very addictive!! Oh, yeah!
Sorry to report that trains haven't been seen or thought of as this get away has been precisely what we had hoped. The flight down was no problem. We've been pretty much kicking back and living one of the lives only dreamed of. Jimmy Buffet would envy us, although I haven't had a Margarita in years! Hard to imagine these placid and multi-colored waters can (and do) get rather "mean ‘n nasty" during ‘cane season. <grim> But right now, this is about as close to heaven on earth as anything I've experienced.
No point in my running through each ‘n every post with comments. Let me just offer my thanks to Eric for the continued presence at the late night/early morning slot - to CM3 I'm NOT Shane! for the weekday mid-morning timeframe - to DL for the noon hour (and sometimes early AM) visits - and to Pete for being so dependable and perhaps the heir apparent to the bar (at least that's MY recommendation should Cap'n Tom decide to "retire"). From what I've seen since my departure last week, you 4 have surely been the mainstays keeping "Our" Place from capsizing. A 5- salute to all!
Phil has checked out the "old" thread and in fact is still doing so. He passes his greetings to all and says that much of what he has been reading surely brings back very precious memories of his own travels. He's no stranger to passenger rail travel (or at least used to be) and has his own stories of trips between the northeast and Florida. Never a "foamer" or "railfan," simply one who enjoyed traveling by train when we had ‘em running more frequently than today. Anyway, I'm ‘working on him' to get a cyber handle and join us. He's quite content at the retired "game" and has many, many interests with using a computer for "fun" pretty much at the bottom of the list. We'll see . . .
Time for us to head for the boat. Have a mid-afternoon "date" with a bit of relaxation on the water! Ahhhhhhh.
Until the next time!
Lars
A pint of Holdens Bitter please RUTH and, of course, some Fish ‘N' Chips for later please.
JAMES Sorry you are having computer problems, hope they are over soon and you are back with us.
ROB Thanks for the kind words, Hopefully your forum and power problems are over but if you ever need to any thing posting I will be pleased to help out.
Great post to come back with, the Classic Steam #38. It seems 1979 was a bad year for CN Ontario branch lines.
ERIC I know what you mean about not enough room in a house, it was amazing though how many railway magazines the attic in my old house could hold.
Good pic of the Stockholm Streetcar. The pantograph looks very heavily built was there a particular reason for this.
About your question to DL, I have found out that the Beaver Car on the Coronation was used in the summer only. The train weighed 312 tons with the beaver car.
CM3 Enjoyed the joke, DOUG has a rival.
DL I always enjoyed the visits to Butterley although it is only a short line there is a great deal to see at Swanwick with the museums
http://www.midlandrailwaycentre.co.uk/English/swanwick.html
I think the class 124 Trans-Pennine units were mainly on the Liverpool- Manchester- Huddersfield- Leeds - Selby - Hull route. The Liverpool- Manchester -Leeds - York -Newcastle was loco hauled until the 158s took over. I think you are right about locos and coaches taking over from the 124s at least on the Manchester to Hull/ Cleethorpes duties. This looks to have happened in the mid 1980s. In '82 there was quite a few 124 and 123 units at Hull Botanical Gardens Depot .It was about this time that some more of the Brush Type 2 A1A-A1A (class 31/1) locomotives were modified to be able to produce Electric Train Heat (class 31/4) these locos took over some of the Cleethorpes duties. I must admit I am not sure of what happened on the Leeds -Hull via Selby line. It would be great to find out.
The Trans Pennine route was great for motive power with class 40s and Peaks (class 45) then class 47/4s. I believe when the Deltics were ousted from the top duties by HSTs and were shedded at York they worked some trains over the Trans Pennine route.
One of the new class 185 DMUs on a Trans-Pennine working at Huddersfield station.
I must agree I find it totally strange that good units like the 442s are being layed aside. I cannot think this would have happened before privitisation.
Many thanks for the link to the Southern 6 Pan/Pul units. I noticed that the traction motors were built in the factory I worked at, although many years before my time there.
It was good to see one of the Pullmans still survives, the car BERTHA now at the Swanage Railway, previously being at the Bluebell Railway.
LARS Great to hear from you, the bar is not the same without your afternoon visit and RUTH is not the same when you are not here Really glad you are having such a great time in Florida and the flight down there was good. Be sure to think of us, as another blast of Artic air is due to reach us this weekend.
Going to the Superbowl I will be sure to look out for the ad to Our Place, hope you have a great time.
Thanks for the kind words and thank Phil for the greetings it would be great if Phil could join us at the bar. Who is/was Jimmy Buffet
TOM I bet Juneau enjoyed the snow although we did not get the amount they thought we would.
Thanks for the kind words on the Brit trains. I do hope everyone enjoys reading about them, I sometimes worry about it, but if they are enjoyed even half as much as I enjoy reading about the North American trains, trolleys and industries etc then we are OK.
It was sad to read that link about the rails in St Louis Union Station. I think it was last year that we were there when the Union Pacific Vintage train with the F units was there, but it does look grim for the tracks now.
The West Midland day rover ticket (All buses and trains in the West Midland area) is a great and cheap way of going on a Pub Crawl.
I suppose after last year's troubles
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