ALCo PA s

[Anonymous]

Boys, boys! Now lets get calmed down or this string will become another conversation about pizza! There, Bergie, you owe me one![:D][angel][(-D]


Seriously, for those of you too young to remember--E's/F's and PAs both had big plusses and minuses. The EMD products were clearly much less maintenance-intensive, and had a better prime mover (the Alco prime mover plagued MLW for years and ultimately killed the LRC power units). On the other hand, the PA could outsprint, with a heavier load, any of the competing EMD products, and a lot of railroads used them for just that purpose. That's why you see them in their prime on a lot of locals and secondary pax trains that had to keep an ambitious schedule with a heavy consist. In some cases it took the PA's to keep schedules that could in no way be met by the same RR's E's. So when you see a PA on a local or mail train, it wasn't there necessarily because it was second-rate.

As to looks, they're both classics in their own ways, with entirely different design and styling philosophies. No reason to debate this--everybody's right if they think one looks good. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Now the 1955 Oldsmobile Greyhound Scenicruiser OOPS I mean Aerotrain--that's a different breed altogether.

It's ironic that the tables are now turned as to on-line performance--the real dragsters are the F40/F59's from EMD (Canada, by the way) and the Alco successors from GE owned by ATK and VIA can't keep up with them on a schedule with a significant number of closely-spaced (read, 20-40 miles apart, or less) stops. That's why Gil Mallory's people screamed bloody murder when Warrington tried to ram the GE's down their throats for the west coast short haul operations, and why you'll notice that the "emerging" commuter market is scraping for the EMDs anywhere they can find them and not out there flocking to the GE's--they just can't accelerate fast enough for that kind of schedule.

But let's have a reality check, guys. It's always good to see a historic piece (EMD, Alco or whatever) preserved. And it's even better if it runs, where we geezers can remember and admire and you young'uns can look and learn.[:)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman
[.....If anyone had to rate the overall performance of the PA, although a Lot of Railroads purchased them, they were among last place.. CP rail had a ton of them, and could hardly pawn them off, so to speak. .....

.... The PA became a Let down to passengers, Just ask Via rail.....

You need to get your facts straight. Neither Canadian Pacific nor VIA ever had a PA. The only railroad who regularly ran PAs into Canada was the D&H. VIA (and CP) had quite a number of FPA4s, but not a single PA. They are quite different locomotives.

[Anonymous]

Dear Kevin,
You are asking for it! Your repeated attacks against the PA (and all Alcos for that matter) are disconcerting to say the least, especially as you admit you have never seen one. Admittedly, the PA might not have held the record for most reliable locomotive of all time, but is it possibe that somewhere in your conscience you might open your mind to the fact that EMD's, like all machines, are also subject to mechanical failure?! You seem to have it in for Alco's, but since you have never seen, much less driven, one, I am forced to conclude that your strongly negative opinions of Alco's are based on secondhand acounts of varrying accuracy. Has it ever occurred to you that a PA might at one time have pulled a passenger train successfully, or are all Alco products subject to failure from the day they leave Schenectady? Volunteering at a railraod museum, I can attest that our Alco restorations often take less time than EMD restorations. You seem to have a vendeta against GE as well, in spite of the fact that the DASH-9 was (and is) an incredibly popular locomotive. At this point, you would probably respond that this fact is because GE's are cheap. I am forced to reply that railroads also consider statistics such as reliability and longevity. I may go to the "Church of Alco," but you apparently are on a crusade against all non-EMD manufacturers.

Most respectfully yours,
Daniel

[Anonymous]

It's really great to see that the restoration work is going good! Actually, there are other PA's out there. There are supposed to be a couple remaining rusting away in Brazil (see http://alcoworld.railfan.net/pauli.htm ). I seem to recall reading on the internet that there was a preservation group that was restoring one, but I can't find it now. Anybody else hear about this?

Also, here's a link to a picture of the other PA that's still in Mexico: http://mexican.railspot.com/pa17.htm .

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy

According to "official rumors", the NKP 190 will be making a trip to the NKPHTS 2006 convention in Cleveland, IF it's restoration is done by then.

Sounds like it is time to start planning a train trip. [;)] [:)]

[orsonroy]

According to "official rumors", the NKP 190 will be making a trip to the NKPHTS 2006 convention in Cleveland, IF it's restoration is done by then.

[Anonymous]

I didn't think PAs were used anymore period. That's cool if they're restoring one, although not the most highly regarded motive power on some RRs, they still were extremly handsome.

[Anonymous]

I was going to ask why there isn't an F or E series resotration project, but figured out.. they never broke DOWN!

Brump-bump-chh

If anyone had to rate the overall performance of the PA, although a Lot of Railroads purchased them, they were among last place.. CP rail had a ton of them, and could hardly pawn them off, so to speak. The Fairbanks-Morse F series knock off was a high hit for CP. Baldwins' F series knock-off was fairly good as well. THE PA in itself had good looks, but as anyhting or anyone will tell you, good looks don't get you jack-all in the scheme of life.

And to be perfectly honest, why anyone would invest money into a PA, is beyond me. For the record, I'm Not to sound rude,I'm trying to sound more of an Economically sound mind.

It can be argued that the More or Less Working factory, Created embarsements to the locomotive system as we know it, I opuld disgaree, because I am from Montreal, On the generla Scheme of things, Alco would pull ahead form Baldwin, yet overall, The PA became a Let down to passengers, Just ask Via rail. But icluding the Century series, which still can be seen roaming around occasioanlly in Cn's Turcot Yard, Or the GE hydro plant near Laval, These locomotives are in fine shape, and you'd never know it from an EMD

So restoring a PA? HA! i laugh... Restoring another Alco Type.. Now theres somehting I would support.

[Anonymous]

For those who might not know the PA now has a horn. There was an update a short while ago.


NKP190.com


The photo gallery is pretty good. I hope everyone enjoys it. [:)]

[Anonymous]

Here is another link. The webmaster sent out a correction because some people were having problems with one of the links. This one should work fine.


http://www.nkp190.com/sheetmetal.jpg

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

The most recent news of the Alco project is from July 2003.

If you want to take a look here is the link. [:)]


http://www.nkp190.com/updatespage2.shtml

If you go to this site there are alot of pics of the ongoing project. I just received an update today from the 190 website. You can register here and be put on a mailing list for updates.

[Trainnut484]

I have found a site that has a picture of SF 59L...

http://donross.railspot.com/dr081.htm

Hope this provides some help.

Take care

Russell

[Anonymous]

The most recent news of the Alco project is from July 2003.

If you want to take a look here is the link. [:)]


http://www.nkp190.com/updatespage2.shtml

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FireDragonLightning

Nice looking units. Too bad there in such shape. Makes me sad to see a wrecked ALCo, even sadder to see a wrecked EMD. But as long as no one's hurt...I laugh at wrecked GE's..HeeHee J/K

The hyperlink in the story (the second link I referred to) takes you to the site that cwayne talked about earlier in this thread. There is a gallery there with different sections you can click on and view. One of the sections shows some wrecked Alcos. This is what Jay was referring to above.

The PA looks real nice. You can also see the 4449, in the background, painted in the Freedom Train colors. It looks nice too.

It is worth your time to take a "looksee" and enjoy the info there. AND you can sign up the the newsletter they offer on the project.

I hope you all take a look and enjoy it. [:)]

[Anonymous]

Nice looking units. Too bad there in such shape. Makes me sad to see a wrecked ALCo, even sadder to see a wrecked EMD. But as long as no one's hurt...I laugh at wrecked GE's..HeeHee J/K

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cwayne

A link with photos of Doyle McCormicks project is NKP190.com.

Thanks, all info and links are appreciated. [:)]

[Anonymous]

A link with photos of Doyle McCormicks project is NKP190.com.

[Anonymous]

My previous post contains a link for info on the project. If you use the link to get to the story there is another link in the story that does have more current info. [:)]

[Anonymous]

After going to bed and not being able to sleep I got up and started playing on the computer. I ran across this by accident. But here is some info, not very recent, about the project.


http://exotic.railfan.net/PA%20News.htm

[Anonymous]

Anyone else have any info? Please let us know anything you can. Any links would be great.

Thanks.

[Anonymous]

They originally belonged to the D&H, but I had heard that McCormik was going to repaint them for the Nickle Plate.

[ironhorseman]

I heard, somewhere, one was going to be restored by Doyle McCormick ( of Daylight 4449 fame). It is to repainted in D&H colors. I don't know where I saw that (probably in Trains magazine) but it's getting late and I'm not going to go look it up now, you'll just have to take my word on. But I thought I'd make a post now, otherwise I'd forget by tomorrow.

Goodnight, America, and all the ships at sea.

[Anonymous]

There are photo links and info updates on railroadforums.com. The one unit has been re-engined of late and the nose has already been painted in Nickle Plate colors. Don't know the status about the one going to the museum.

[Anonymous]

Does anyone have any recent information on the restoration of the ALCo PA s brought back from Mexico. There have been many questions about this ongoing restoration. I am sure many people would love to know what progress is being made and any information available would be greately appreciated. [:D]