"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[siberianmo]

G'day Gents!

Another beautiful, but rather warm (85 F) day here in mid-continent USA with continuing clear skies. Noticed that petrol up at “Collusion Corner” has dropped to $2.68 (rounded) per gallon – what a deal! <groan> Yeah, I know, it could be worse – and probably will.

With the bride on a summer schedule, my days begin a bit later than normal – no more 5 AM reveille! <yay> Actually, that should continue into the next full semester and beyond as we get to become a bit more “civil” with our waking. Juneau the Wonder Husky already appreciates it – he shows much disdain for early wake ups! <grin>

So, what’s new ‘round the joint [?] Not a whole hulluvalot – Boris has the scaffolding up in the back room for some long needed painting. He and Leon plan to get it done on Sunday – then off we go for our “traditional” romp up at Can-Am Gorge – wildlife beware! [:O]

The Gals of ”Our” Place have asked for some reduced hours as things have been really slow on our “menu nights” – Thursday thru Saturday. I see no problems with it and we’ll just have one of ‘em in, rather than the three all of the time. New sked is Posted over by Herr Wurlitzer – can’t miss it! <grin>

In case you may have totally forgotten, here are THE GALS of "Our" Place

Ruth, Ann, Lucy, Jemima - hired by Tom as the "Redhead - Blonde - Brunette and Raven haired beauty." Nick provided the names - so Ruth is the redhead, and so on .........

They work weekend nights - Friday's and Saturdays, with occasional special events - lingerie shows, etc.

Next comes Cindy our great looking auburn haired faculty member from the all female Mentor Village University, right up the road. Cindy works behind the bar for me when I need a break on weekend days and in the kitchen when Nick, our Chief Chef is in. She’s a volunteer and not part of the paid staff. Cindy also likes to do Lingerie Shows for Victoria’s Secret. [wow]


Some acknowledgments are in order:

passengerfan Al Posted: 15 Jun 2006, 18:02:41

Two things: Thanx very much for reading the material over on “my other Thread” and much appreciation for sharing your thoughts regarding the subject of passenger railroads in the U.S. and in particular, California. Certainly find your position very much aligned with my own and many, many other people with whom I have interacted on this subject over the years. Spending countless billions for highways and runways, while devoting a relative pittance to the railroads will only deepen the hole we’ve dug for ourselves. Isn’t hindsight wunnerful [?] <grin>


wanswheel Mike Posted: 15 Jun 2006, 18:06:44

What’s to say other than a continued THANX for the URLs! I think the substance of the GCT epistle is much more interesting than the Pix. The latter serve to supplement, which they do quite well. Nevertheless, when it comes to keeping a conversation flowing – yours are indeed extremely relevant bits of imagery. [tup]


LoveDomes Lars Posted: 15 Jun 2006, 18:29:41

Now, THAT was a very clever thing you did – bringing “my other Thread” over here! [tup] Good way to tie the loose ends together in order to provide a bit of continuity to the discussion – given that any more than a handful were keeping track of it! <geesh> Nevertheless, appreciate the effort and it shows that reading the material does indeed pay off! [tup]


Theodorebear Ted Posted: 15 Jun 2006, 21:21:18


I share your memories regarding GCT (and Penn Station) – there was that frenzy of activity you spoke of which caused one to seriously “make a move” only when absolutely sure of it. Otherwise you could wind up on a subway train to Canarsie! [swg]

When we speak of 2 pages going by in just a day or two, keep in mind the way we felt when perhaps 4 times that number flew by over at ‘the other place.’ At least ours are substantive and largely inclusive making them well worth the time ‘n effort to read.

As always, [tup] regarding your VA appointment! Maybe you’ll run into the guy who was responsible for the loss of our military-related personal and private info. A castration procedure, perhaps is in order! [?] <uh-oh>


trolleyboy Rob Posted: 15 Jun 2006, 22:48:46 & 23:20:45

Like those “rules” you provided. They bring to mind some thoughts I’ve always had (in my adulthood) regarding the subject of rules and the like.

Why do we have ‘em [?] Because of those in a given society who decide to step outside the bounds of what the greater number (aka: majority) hold as morays and folkways – or “the way we want it,” and “the way we’ve always done it.” When the first idiot decided to walk naked into the town square – a rule was declared. Perhaps when the first couple decided to publicly engage in “that which comes naturally,” another rule was established. Many hold that we shouldn’t have to make rules for things that everyone SHOULD already know. There’s the rub – everyone DOESN’T know – much less care. If the socialization of children doesn’t take place within the home, and the institutions supporting our families and society at large (schools ‘n Churches come to mind), how then can anyone really mean it when they say, “They should have known better.”

It’s a great subject – in fact there are university courses (Sociology comes to mind) where this subject actually takes up a semester of time and discussion. “Rules are made to be broken,” say the naysayers. I offer, they are always there to be changed. Just change ‘em within the bounds of society rather than by disobedience for attention gathering sake.

On the lighter side, you gotta wonder what the origin of many of those rules was! I’d like to know “the other side of the story!” [swg] Nice work! [tup]


EricX2000 Eric Posted: 16 Jun 2006, 00:43:32

Drinks around this joint run the spectrum of one’s imagination. We stock everything that is considered “trade” – but no micro brews and the like. For example, if one would like a brew from Sweden, we have:

Blå Gul 5.2% ( 0,5L )
Fresh Swedish Light Lager, with soft aftertaste.

Pripps Beer - World Class Swedish Beer!

Spendrups Premium Lager -
Great taste from Swedish Spendrups!

"Fem komma tvåan" and "Sju komma tvåan" -
Great Swedish Beer from Åbro!

And many, many more! We have the lights, the darks, the Pilsners, the Bocks, et al.


URLs regarding St. Louis’ Union Station:

http://www.stlouisunionstation.com/

http://www.slfp.com/UnionStation.html

http://stlouis.about.com/cs/attractions/a/unionstation.htm

Enjoy! [tup]


barndad Doug Posted: 16 Jun 2006, 05:09:18

Cute license plate! [tup] Nice wind up to the three-parter on the Detroit River Tunnel. Well done! [tup]

Glad you enjoyed the GCT and supplemental “stuff.” Makes this Thread most unique, wouldn’t you agree [?] <yeah>


coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 16 Jun 2006, 09:31:29

What’s to say other than another fine contribution from our friend in the coal fields of WVA!

Apology not required – I KNOW you read the ‘stuff’ being Posted and it’s rather easy to not pick up on all of it given the way “things” somehow are not always available when one logs in.

As you know – and probably are bored to distraction about – I use the “Refresh/Repost” feature as often as possible AND stick around AFTER Posting, because it is during those times that one can find Posts otherwise not seen.

I particularly enjoyed your comments regarding GCT yesterday and they brought back many vivid recollections of my own. Seems that anyone who experienced that palace of a train depot – station – terminal came away with similar observations. They begin with [wow] – whether knee high to a grasshopper or as an adult. Thanx again for sharing those thoughts with us! [tup]

Appreciate the round and quarters for our Coal Scuttle!


trolleyboy Rob Posted: 16 Jun 2006, 10:34:39

Daylite Posts become you – or something like that! Good to see ya and appreciate the business here at the “Feast or Famine Bar ‘n Grill!!” Yesterday we had 19 Posts – not at all bad for a Thursday, eh [?] You betcha! [tup] Substance was there – repeat Posts too – just an all around good day at the bar. Too bad so many will miss out on the material – but that’s life and I surely can’t do anything about other people’s poor decisions.

Need not be in suspense any longer – the ‘surprise’ is out of the bag, so to speak! Enjoy. [tup]


That’s it for now. I’ll be behind the bar for the day! So, whatillyahave [?]


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

Featured Locomotives #1

PRR GG1




Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds and logos from other sources.



Amtrak #928, a former PRR GG1, speeds through North Elizabeth, New Jersey in December, 1975


Built by: Pennsylvania Railroad (PRR), Altoona, PA

Power type: Electric

Build date: 1934 – 1943

Total production: 139

AAR wheel arr.: 2-C+C-2

Gauge” 4 ft 8½ in (1435 mm)

Length: 79 ft 6 in (24.23 m)

Total weight: 477,000 lb (216,000 kg)

Electric system: 11,000 V AC, 25 Hz

Collection method: dual pantograph

Engine type: quill drive

Top speed: 100 mph (160 km/h) (passenger) 90 mph (144 km/h) (freight)

Power output: 4,920 hp (3,660 kW)

Tractive effort: 70,700 lbf (314 kN)

Career: Pennsylvania Railroad, Penn Central, Amtrak

Class: GG1

Locale: Northeast United States

Disposition: most scrapped, several preserved in static display around the U.S.


The Pennsylvania Railroad's GG1 class of electric locomotives were built between 1934 to 1943 at the PRR shops in Altoona, Pennsylvania, with a total of 139 units constructed. They remained in service with the PRR's successors until the early 1980s. The GG1 became one of the most recognized and famous classes of locomotive worldwide.

Technical information

The GG1s were large locomotives, 79 ft 6 in (24.23 m) long and weighing 477,000 lb (216,000 kg). The main body was a single unit formed as a bridge-truss framework and clad in welded steel plate. The driving cabs were set up high about a third of the way along the locomotive from each end for greater crew safety in an accident. A narrower section of nose in front of the cab windows enabled view forward, although the nose remained full height to carry the current-collection pantographs. The bodywork as a whole was smoothly rounded.

This was mounted upon two great cast steel locomotive frames linked by a hinge at the locomotive's middle which allowed side-to-side movement. Six driving wheels (three axles) were fitted towards the center of the locomotive on each truck (twelve in total) and a four-wheeled, unpowered guiding truck was mounted toward each end. In the Whyte notation for steam locomotives, each frame comprised a 4-6-0 locomotive; in the PRR's classification system, 4-6-0s were class "G". The GG1 consisted of two such locomotive frames mounted back to back, so it was classified GG—4-6-0+0-6-4. This arrangement is called 2-C+C-2 in AAR wheel arrangement notation. Each driven axle was powered by two 410 hp (305 kW) GEA-627-A1 traction motors mounted above and to either side of the axle. Drive was through a reduction gear and a quill drive assembly.

While the famous industrial designer Raymond Loewy did not design the shape of the GG1 electric locomotives, he did improve their looks by recommending a smooth welded construction be used (rather than riveted construction), along with a pinstriped paint scheme to highlight their smoothly rounded forms.


Penn Central #4801 and #4800 haul freight through North Elizabeth, New Jersey in December of 1975.

The GG1 was designed to run on the standard Pennsylvania Railroad catenary power of 11,000 V AC, 25 Hz. This high voltage was stepped down by a large transformer mounted in the center of the locomotive body for the traction motors, cooling blowers and all other onboard equipment. The locomotive's power was controlled via a tap-switching arrangement; the number of secondary windings in use could be varied, thus adjusting the output voltage. The units were rated at 4,920 hp (410 hp per motor) continuous rating and a maximum of 9,500 hp at 49 mph (intermittent duty). For passenger service, the GG1 was geared to run at 100 mph maximum although it achieved 110 mph in testing. For freight service, the locomotive was geared to run at 90 mph maximum.


History

A GG1 crash

One of the more interesting moments in the history of the GG1 locomotive took place on the morning of January 15, 1953 at Washington's Union Station. Due to a brake line **** (valve) that closed due to poor location (its location caused the valve to close due to contact with the bottom cross member of the car), the Federal Express from Boston was unable to apply the brakes on part of the train. Pushed by the unbraked cars, the GG1 engine and two passenger cars ran off the end of Track 16 and crashed through the floor of Union Station and into the baggage room. In a remarkable demonstration of the durability of the GG1 engines, Engine #4876 was later cut into three pieces, removed from the baggage room, and reassembled at the Altoona (PA) shops of the Pennsylvania Railroad. It then re-entered commercial service and went on to be one of the last-serving GG1 engines.


GG1 4876 after the crash.

Disposition

While it is widely believed that the GG1s were retired due to a change in the electric power supply on the former PRR electrified zone, other concerns led to the retirement of the GG1s. Aside from maintenance and performance issues, the nail in the GG1's coffin was an ever growing problem with frame cracks which were expensive to repair and occurring more and more frequently. Amtrak's first attempt to replace the GG1, the E60, did not live up to expectations. Amtrak's purchase of AEM-7 electric locomotives allowed it to retire its fleet of GG1s. With the AEM-7s on hand Amtrak was not only able to replace its own GG1s, but sell a number of E60s to New Jersey Transit to replace their GG1s operating commuter trains on the North Jersey Coast Line.

It has often been proposed for a GG1 to be restored to operating condition. While it would be theoretically possible to run a GG1 on the current Northeast Corridor's electrical system, surviving GG1s contain large amounts of toxic PCBs in their electrical systems as well as asbestos. These considerations puts a restoration far out of reach for most non-profit preservation groups.

Surviving examples


Pennsylvania Railroad #4890, on display at the National Railroad Museum in Green Bay, Wisconsin.



PRR 4927, still lettered for Penn Central, at IRM.

• PRR 4800 — RR Museum of PA, Strasburg, PA (a.k.a. "Old Rivets" — the prototype GG1 and was the only GG1 that had a riveted body).
• PRR 4859 — Transportation Center, Harrisburg, PA (designated as official electric locomotive of PA in 1938).
• PRR 4876 — B&O Museum, Baltimore, MD (as of 2004, in Rapidly Deteriorating Condition); the GG1 has been moved to a CSX Yard some where in Baltimore.
• PRR 4877 — New Jersey Transit yard, Morristown, NJ.
• PRR 4879 — URHS of NJ.
• PRR 4882 — National NYC Railroad Museum, Elkhart, IN. (Currently painted as Penn Central 4882)
• PRR 4890 — National Railroad Museum, Green Bay, WI.
• PRR 4903/Amtrak 4906 — Age of Steam Museum, Dallas, TX (pulled Robert Kennedy's Funeral Train along with GG1 4901 from New York to Washington on June 8, 1968).
• PRR 4909/Amtrak 4932 — Cooperstown Junction, NY (arguably the most confused ownershipped surviving GG1; cited and/or supposed owners have ranged from Steamtown National Historic Site to the Henry Ford Museum).
• PRR 4913/Amtrak 4913 — Railroader's Memorial Museum, Altoona, PA.
• PRR 4917/Amtrak 4934 — Leatherstocking RY Museum, Cooperstown Jct, NY (one of 75 GG1s built with Westinghouse components, the other 64 GG1s used GE devices and motors).
• PRR 4918/Amtrak 4916 — Museum of Transportation, St. Louis, MO (was once the property of the Smithsonian Institute).
• PRR 4919/Amtrak 4917 — VA Museum of Transportation, Roanoke, VA.
• PRR 4927/Amtrak 4939 — Illinois Railway Museum, Union, IL (Amtrak's renumbering in 1976 to 4939 bucked 42 years of numbering by making it the highest numbered GG1).
• PRR 4933/Amtrak 4926 — Central NY Chapter NRHS, Syracuse, NY (plans are to make it run via a diesel motor).
• PRR 4935/Amtrak 4935 — RR Museum of PA (a.k.a. "Blackjack" — arguably the best-restored and best-displayed GG1 due to its display in a climate controlled environment).

Last scrapped GG1s

• PRR 4872/NJT 4872 — Date Scrapped Unknown by New Jersey Transit.
• PRR 4873/NJT 4873 — Sold for scrap in 1992 by the Whippany Railroad Museum.

The GG1 in the movies

• In the 1962 version of The Manchurian Candidate, the train that Marco (Frank Sinatra) takes north from Washington, D.C. is being pulled by a Pennsylvania Railroad GG1 dressed in the standard PRR pinstripes.
• A GG1 can be seen briefly during the first robot attack sequence in the 2004 film Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow.
• A GG1 can be seen briefly during the first few minutes of the 1945 film The Clock.
• Two GG1s (one painted black with white Penn Central logo; the other in silver, red and blue for Amtrak) can be seen at the end of the movie The Seven Ups.

References

• Hollingsworth, Brian and Arthur F. Cook (1987). The Great Book of Trains. Portland House, New York, NY. ISBN 0-517-64515-7.
• Middleton, William D. (2002). The Pennsylvania Railroad Under Wire. Kalmbach Publishing, Waukesha WI. ISBN 0-89024-617-3.



***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** *****

Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds and logos from other sources.


Photo Gallery from other sources


PRR GG1 #4800 (foto credit: RR Museum of PA)




PRR GG1 #4859 (foto credit: Transportation Center, Harrisburg, PA)




Pennsy GG1 #4877 (courtesy: www.trainweb.org)





Pennsy GG1 #4877 (courtesy: www.trainweb.org




PRR GG1 #4890 (foto credit: Frank Hicks)




PRR GG1 #4890 (foto credit: National RR Museum, Green Bay, WI)




PRR GG1 #4903 (courtesy: Age of Steam Museum, Dallas, TX)




PRR GG1 #4913 (foto credit: Ana Dill)




Pennsy GG1 #4916 (courtesy: www.trainweb.org)




PRR GG1 #4927 (foto credit: Illinois Railway Museum)




PRR GG1 #4933 (foto credit: Jack Humphrey)




PRR GG1 #4933 (foto credit: Richard Duley)




Pennsy GG1 #4935 (courtesy: www.trainweb.org)




PRR GG1 #4935 (foto credit: RR Museum of PA)


***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** *****



Enjoy!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[trolleyboy]

Good morning folks. Tom I think I can handle a number 3 and the ole thermos of coffee again this morning.( As long as Boris hasn't been stirring with his fingers again )I'm glad to see that things are starting to tick along here, feels like old times just about [tup]

Eric Hey better late then never. I'm usuually ( almost always ) in late as well. It helps keep leon awake if a couple of us come in late at night anyway.Always glad to have some comopany at night around here.[tup] Those pictures were from an old magazine article I found, and just will not blow up or brighten up sufficiantly with the scanner software I have anyway. I'll keep trying I have one more option if it works I'll post them on Sunday.Along with the shots that turned out not too badly from thelittle airshow we went to last saturday. [tup]

Doug I'm glad that you liked the seagoing trolley, I couldn't imagine someone building something like that nowaday's. Different times I guess. With the electricity a "new" thing back then people did like their gagets whether they were practical or not at the time.Great final installment of the Detroit River Tunnel,what an amazing piece of engineering and an equally interesting operation. I'm actually supprised that it and the Sarnia tunnels had their electrification removed, just seemed to make sence to me to have them set up that way.Dual power locomotives could have come along way had the companies stayed with them.[sigh] Loved the licence plate, your right it was better than a joke today. [tup][;)]

CM3 Sooo Tom thinks your old as dirt eh [?] LOL. I hope that your friends photo collection got saved for posterity somewhere. I've seen to many families junk collections like that over the years, if they didn't have the intreset. Truly a loss to all. He reminds me of our one founding member at the Museum. jack's in his 80's but can recount the colours and patterns on bus and streetcar seats, paint schemes you name it from the 20's to preasant. He's written a few traction books over the year as well, and has a photo collection to rival I don't know what. Ontario and Quebec and a fair bit of NE US traction pictures. We know at least that when he does pass on his photo collection is comming to the museum to be protected and archieved. To that end we've actuially picked up three CP rail plug door newsprint cars that were retire this year. They are completely sealed and in good condition. We are modifying them to seve as archieval storage cars for all the paper artifacts at the musuem. Old books timetables photo's, roll signs etc.

Tom You are keeping us in suspence again. I half to know what the speacial thing is. LOL


Rob

[coalminer3]

Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.

Beautiful day here in the coalfields with bright sunshine and warmer temperatures forecast for the weekend and into next week. Gas prices are $2.89 (dropped 6 cents this week), but we all know that someone will sneeze somewhere and they’ll shoot higher again.

First a humble apology for failing to acknowledge the Marklin-related information; thanks for the post(s).

Lars – Thanks for the kind words.

With a tip of the cap to Bob and Ray - Spotlighting Sports on the Sportlight Spotlight: Unfortunately the Red Sox are scheduled to play the Mets soon; it will kind of be like a trip through the sawmill; especially if your boys keep hitting and playing well like they did on their recent road trip. However the Cardinals are hanging in. If Boston doesn’t provide some life support to their pitching staff, you may as well stick a fork in them as they won’t even get to the wild card.

Mike had lots of neat URLs to look at. The Library of Congress site is amazing and they add to it all the time. At one time, they had a wonderful color selection of ancient baseball cards – maybe it is still there.

A couple of comments.

That shot of NY harbor was certainly done on a COLD day – the river is full of ice. The cars, lighters and tugs are truly fascinating.

The picture of NYC 5271 is an NYC publicity shot. Look sharp and you’ll see that there are green flags on the locomotive. Legend has it that they stopped the train for the picture and then let the train proceed. I sort of doubt it as they were not about to stab 25/26 for anything, but it does make for a good story. Also, check out the drop coupler on the front of the locomotive.

Then we have a lovely shot of the 1938 Century.

Last, thanks for the color shot of MEC 335 and 334 – “them ARE EMDs.” I think you can see what gives MEC modelers fits when trying to model a particular time period as there were more than a few color schemes out there. It’s almost as frustrating as trying to get a handle on Lehigh Valley paint.

Theodorebear – Hang in there; I am dealing with some of the same stuff from 1100 miles away. I hate houses, etc., and can’t wait to deal with the attorneys when I head north later this month. Then I’m getting part of my own humble piece of coal camp architecture partially gutted/remodeled when I get return.

Rob – As Tom will tell you, I’m old (LOL). Seriously, I wish you could have known the gentleman in question (TR and the trolley story) as he had a profound knowledge of local history as well as being a walking encyclopedia of Boston and Albany/New York Central lore (and I thought I was bad).

We used to go out photographing fairly regularly, and one day he surprised me by digging around in his stuff and producing three albums of b&w action pictures of the Boston and Albany in the 1920s, 30s and 40s; his father had started doing the albums and he picked up where his father left off. These prints were razor sharp, and we “consumed mass quantities,” as Beldar used to say, while looking through the pictures.

BTW, he did traction stuff as well such as Boston Elevated, Eastern Mass St. Railway, Middlesex and Boston, etc. Middlesex and Boston had the contract for the school buses where I grew up – even then, you knew you were riding a piece of history as “regular equipment failures” were fairly common.

Mike – The PC job at the tunnel was interesting. Back in the 70s there were several trains that originated in Boston and filled out at Framingham, Ashland, and Springfield, MA. Some of them were mixed freights, others often ran solid blocks of ref. cars, and still others were so-called van train (east end NYC term for TOFC). These carried a TV designation with a number such as TV6, TV9, etc. IIRC, these TV designations existed into the days of Conrail, b4 CSX put in their god-awful symbol system. So if the caption is what it says it is, then that train may very well be TV9.

Well, I have rambled on enough. Nickel Plate next week, excellent!

Work safe

[siberianmo]

[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]


SOMETHING very SPECIAL arrives on Track #1

THIS morning![tup]

Watch for it BEFORE NOON!


Tom[4:-)] [oX)]


[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]

[siberianmo]

FRIDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of POSTS


We open at 6 AM.
(All time zones - Don’t ask how we do that!)[swg]


Friday at last! C’mon in – enjoy a cup of freshly ground ‘n brewed coffee – a <light or <traditional breakfast from the Menu Board and of course one or two goodies from The Mentor Village Bakery!


Daily Wisdom


I usually take a two-hour nap from 1 to 4.
ENCORE! Yogi-ism



Info for the Day:


Railroads from Yesteryear –
New York, Chicago and St. Louis Railroad – Nickel Plate Road (NKP)
Arrives Tuesday – watch for it!


* Weekly Calendar:


TODAY: Pizza Nite! & Steak Nite!
Saturday: Steak ‘n Trimmin’s Nite! – and –
ENCORE! Saturday


MVP Award Winners

April 2006 . . . LoveDome Lars
May – June . . To be announced


[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]



Comedy Corner

Yarns from the Barn
(from barndad Doug’s Posts)

[:I] There once was pirate captain who, whenever it looked like a battle would be imminent would change into a red shirt. After observing this behavior for a few months, one of the crew members asked him what it meant.
"It's in case I get shot. I don't want you crew members to see blood and freak out."
"That's very sensible, sir." At that moment, the crew member spotted eight hostile ships on the horizon. The captain all of a sudden looked very concerned.
"Get my brown pants." [:I]


[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]



The Mentor Village Emporium Theatre

Double Features and Three Stooges Short Subject!

NOW SHOWING:

. . . Sunday, June 11th thru June 17th: Major League II (1994) starring: Tom Berenger & Charlie Sheen –and- Mr. Baseball (1992) starring: Tom Selleck, K. Taukura & A. Takanashi. SHORT: Hoi Poloi (1935).

COMING ATTRACTIONS:

. . . Sunday, June 18th thru June 24th: League of Their Own (1992) starring: Tom Hanks, Geena Davis & Madonna – and – Memphis Belle (1990) starring: Matthew Modine, Eric Stoltz, Tate Donovan. SHORT: Three Little Bears (1935).



SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) barndad Doug Posted: 15 Jun 2006, 05:10:47 (354) Barnyard Talk, Down the Tubes, pt II & Joke!

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 15 Jun 2006, 07:36:44 (354) Thursday’s Info & 13 Post Summary

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 15 Jun 2006, 07:45:56 (354) Something Special Announcement

(4) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 15 Jun 2006, 09:55:19 (354) Daylite Inclusive Post!

(5) siberianmo Tom Posted: 15 Jun 2006, 10:00:06 (354) RR Stations – Depots & Terminals #2 – Grand Central Terminal

(6) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 15 Jun 2006, 10:30:15 (354) WTB #2 – Oddball Trolleys, pt I

(7) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 15 Jun 2006, 10:42:10 (354) GCT comments

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 15 Jun 2006, 11:08:41 (354) Acknowledgments ‘n Comments

(9) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 15 Jun 2006, 11:20:40 (354) and then some!

(10) siberianmo Tom Posted: 15 Jun 2006, 12:53:13 (354) for Rob

(11) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 15 Jun 2006, 14:08:30 (354) WVA Report ‘n GCT nostalgia!

(12) LoveDomes Lars Posted: 15 Jun 2006, 15:00:14 (354) The Larsman Report!

(13) siberianmo Tom Posted: 15 Jun 2006, 17:00:54 (354) Acknowledgments ‘n Comments

(14) passengerfan Al Posted: 15 Jun 2006, 18:02:41 (355) Al’s Left Coast Opinion!

(15) wanswheel Mike Posted: 15 Jun 2006, 18:06:44 (355) GCT URLs, etc.

(16) LoveDomes Lars Posted: 15 Jun 2006, 18:29:41 (355) Something different!

(17) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 15 Jun 2006, 21:21:18 (355) PM Gulf Coast Incluisve Post!

(18) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 15 Jun 2006, 22:48:46 (355) Count Robulla’s Inclusive Post!

(19) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 15 Jun 2006, 23:20:45 (355) WTB #3 Street Railway Rules




That’s it! [tup][;)]


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[Anonymous]

Good morning one and all, and I believe I have time for a complete light breakfast today. The Grand Central Terminal post really opebend my eyes yesterday, Tom, and was most impressive. Especially when complimented by CM3's personal experiences. I just happened to have watched a "panavision" pieces on the 20th Century Limited at my club meeting the other night. Did you know that it took 47 employees onboard to run a 17 car train? COmpare that against the number of employees you would need to haul freight instead! Great to see Lars and Ted yesterday as well, along with Mike's usual terrific URLs, and Rob's new tales series. I especially liked the seagoing trolley story!

Here's my last installment on the Detroit-Windsor tunnel before I run to work! Have a great day!

Down The Tubes – Vol. 17 Rail Classics – John Uckley
Freight originated at Farmingham, Massachusetts entered Canada at Niagara Falls and will soon be back in the U.S. at Detroit.

Michigan Central President Harry B. Ledyard was at the controls of DRT electric No. 7504 as it pulled the very first train through the tunnel from Detroit to Windsor on July 26, 1910: while New York Central President William K. Vanderbilt also rode in the cab as a distinguished guest.

Initial freight operations commenced at (:00 a.m. on Sunday morning, October 16, 1910. (Unfinished track work in Detroit caused the delay.) An electric locomotive rumbled into the Detroit tunnel portal with a long string of freight cars and emerged at Windsor 12 minutes later. By 4:00 p.m. eleven more freight trains had been pulled through the tubes. Freight service was then halted for the day so that railroad brass could evaluate the overall performance and quickly set up a comprehensive schedule for the days and weeks to come. Four of the six new Alco/GE electrics had been used on this occasion; with some 500 cars (40 to 45 cars per train) moved through the tunnel, averaging 13 minutes per trip between gradient summits.

Regularly scheduled passenger service also began on the same date. The first westbound varnish under the river was the Fast Western Express at 1:55 p.m., while the first eastbound train was the Wolverine at 3:40 p.m. The mixture of freight and passenger movement was smoothly coordinated and no delays were reported. Michigan Central’s venerable cross river carferry service had been dealt a mortal blow in the name of progress.

American/Canadian freight passenger traffic burgeoned steadily during the early years of tunnel operations. The call went out for additional power in 1914. Four new R-la electrics soon graced the DRT roll call. No. 7506 arrived in April. 7507 and 7508 appeared in May, and 7509 was added in June. Tractive effort rose to 60,500 lbs. and weight swelled to 246,900 lbs. (Units later renumbered 166-169.)

In May, 1926, the final pair of steeple-cab electrics were fabricated. Nos. 7510 and 7511 were R-lbs which possessed a tractive effort of 62,325 lbs. and weighed 249,860 lbs. They were the heaviest steeple-cabs ever built (Alco/GE) and were later rechristened 170-171.

As a supplement to the original tunnel electrics, several New York Central R-2 class boxcab electrics, built in 1931 by Alco/GE and nicknamed Big Jobs, were assigned to Detroit on several occasions for extended service periods during the waning years of DRT juice use. R-2s Nos. 1204-1208 (later 302-306) and No. 1212 (310) were rail routed from the New York City area to Detroit and put to work. Tractive effort was 66,600 lbs. and weight tipped the scales at 266,400 lbs.

The R-1s, R-1as, R-lbs, and R-2s had direct contact pickup shoes on their trucks which enabled them to receive electricity from an inverted rail outrigger of the Sprague-Wilgus underrunning type, placed directly adjacent to the tracks. A small roof-mounted pantograph could also be utilized to collect juice from an intricate overhead rail network which was erected at critical switch points and frogs and also within the confines of the Bush-style train shed at Detroit, where the ground-level third rail system would have been a mortal hazard to unsuspecting travelers.

The final chapter in the DRT electric locomotive saga occurred on September 9, 1952, when a group of huge Class DES-3 triple-power boxcab units (built in 1930) were shipped to the Motor City from New York. These hybrid freight maulers were capable of movement in any one of three different ways: oil-electric power, third-rail power, or storage battery power.
Did these men really ride through the tunnel on the front of this locomotive. They could have, but we really do not know. This is one of several publicity photos taken shortly after the tunnel opened.




(better than a joke ...Tom?)

[EricX2000]

Good evening... or should I say good morning!? Coffee, please. I need a cup before I hit the sack.
Just read the posts since my last visit.

Tom - Wow, most interesting reading about Grand Central. I have never been there, only at Penn Station.
My drinking habits are very limited. It is coffee, coffee and then some coffee. Sometimes a beer. Iced tea is okay. But if you can recommend some real good drinks at “Our place” I’ll be happy to try them. I guess I missed the URL about St. Louis Union Station. Have to go back and find it.

Rob - Indeed oddball trolleys. I hope you will be able to scan those pictures. Too bad no one was saved.

cm3 - Enjoyed your little story about GTC. It really is a nice addition to Tom’s history. I ceratinly have to visit GTC next time I get to Big Apple.

Lars - I don’t know what to say, Mets... hmm. They beat Diamondbacks real bad recently and that is very hard to accept. But next year...

It is hard to make it here before midnight, but early morning is better than not making it at all. Weekends are better. I really don't have anything to show or tell tonight, just wanted to say Hi. [:)]

Eric

[trolleyboy]

All right I shall drop another weird tales upon you kind folks today. Seeing as how Ted has given them a glowing ( no pun intended ) endorsement.

Weird Tales From The Barn # 3 Street Railway Rules

Here's some of the more unusual rules for street railway employees

First set from Brooklyn Rapid Transit c1900


1) Employees are prohibited from entering saloons when in uniform,and from frequenting such places. Preference in employment and advancement will be given to total abstainers.

2) Lying down or lounging in the cars is prohibited.Condustors and motormen will never sit down while their car is in motion.

3) While engaged in operating a car, whistling, talking,or shouting to teamsters is forbidden,unless necessary to avoid an accident.

4) Should car become electrically charged, pole should be immediatly pulled down Ouch that would cause some grief to the crew !

ASRA RULES

After 1903 most street railway companies adopted the ASRA rule book. ( American Street Railway Association ) here's some examples....


Rule 3 Conductors and Motormen must be clean and neat

Rule 4 Conductors and Motormen must treat passengers with politness and must not make threatening gestures nor use loud,uncivil,or profane language,even under the greatest provacation.

There were 89 general rules in the ASRA rulebook ! Covering everything from language to the proper tying of one's tie !One of the leading creators of this rulebook Rodger Burns also put out a small paper back titled How to Become a Motorman heres an excerpt.

Do not lose control of your temper ! Many man of whom I have personal knowledge has lost his position because of a quick temper. I remeber a motorman who was always ill tempered. The minute he stepped into the vestibule and got his hand on the controller handle, he was angry at eberyone and everything. there was never anything right;the conductor was too slow, or the passengers were too slow,or too many people wetre riding.he had an idea that everyone wanted to ride with him, and they brouhgt all the old women,little children, and cripples on his car so he could not make his time.

The next paragraph is my personal favourite.

Do not forget your personal appearance.nothing gives a motorman a better stand in the public eye than to be clean and neatly dressed. If there is anything that disgusts me in a fellow worker,it is to sit behind him and gaze on a neck so dirty that you could raise a crop of potatoes on it without any fertilizer.


Enjoy Rob



[i]Rule three

[trolleyboy]

Good evening Leon you great hulking hunk of humanity. I think I'
ll take a cr as I'm now off the clock for the day.Also if and of H&H's famous or infamous Bavarian Fish Fry is left in the kitchen I will attempt a plate full.

Lars Thanks for bringing over da'bosses musings from the other thread.He is so right in both what's wrong and unfortunatly when ( if ever ) it will be fixed. I agree with Al needs to be done, but if it isn't good for the bottom line well you know the rest of the story. [tdn] I'm glad that you liked the museum type posts, I try to keep them as interesting as possible, some stuff just doesn'y transpose well.

CM3 I'm shocked that you actually kwen or know someone that could recount the Roosevelt incedent.Unfortunatly the pictures of te seagoing trolley and the armoured one scanned too dark for posting ( as I had feared ) Great add in enciore to Tom's GCT post, truly an impressive building !

Mike Great urls as always and on topic as always [tup] x5 for you as well sir. I can relate to the changing landscape around the big cities. I travel to Toronto by rail at least twice a year, and there's always some new building blocking more of the sun out along the waterfront rail line that heads into Union station. Tom and Ted can attest to the mass of humanity now hovering above and around Toronto Union and the Gardiner expressway.

Ted Well I'll wish you luck in your endevours tomorrow, hopefully no news is good news as they say.I think that I will keep up the tales of the wierd as they seem to have had a favourable responce thus far. I'll also keep the other " features" going time to time as well. Gotta rebuild the repetoire of new stuff after encoring so much of the old stuff the last few weeks.

Tom Now that you've vented are you better [?] Always good to get the stuff that bugs you off the ole chest. And yes it has been a while since I travelled to the other thread. Not to worry I shall pop in over there once in a bit . This place is more of my home and safe harbour on the forums though and I suspect will remain that way.[tup]

Rob

[Anonymous]

Good heavens gentlmen, I miss one day's reading and I'm 2 pages behind already.[tup] Tom, make it a night cap of C.R. and soda please w/twist, thanks. Well I'll make no bones about it, I've dropped far behind the curve in just a brief span. Starting from the Wednesday Toy and Model Trains input, let me say there were worthy reminders of Marklin models and John Allen's master strokes in HO. Yes, he certainly was the measure of all things in the 1050's and beyond. Rob, I appeciate the new "tack" with the "Barn" series. Hopefully this will be ongoing.[tup] Barndad Doug's series on the Detroit River tunnel leaves me speechless to comment on the resourceful people of those early days. From antiquity to the modern; the "ultra domes," single and double level dome cars information sparks new interest in "train spotting" again. I will probably not see any such improved rolling stock hereabouts, so seeing the pix, URLs and Links to them is really a treat.[^] Mike and Lars, I haven't had time to get to your last posts and will catch up a.s.a.p. very soon. We were all dazzled with Tom's fine G.C.T. extravaganza and added personal touches by CM3, I am sure. There isn't much to add save the fact, I was always felt intimidated by the frenzied activity just getting to and from the trains, shuttle, et al.[:O]

This is an embarassingly brief reponse to the excellent offerings yesterday and today. A phone call from Bay Pines V.A. hospital this afternoon rescheduled my appointment from the 22nd to early tomorrow morning. To make matters worse, FHA and HUD people need documentation which I must collect before meeting them on the feasibility of a "reverse" mortgage. I hope to keep these interruptions at a minimum but no guarantees, of course. In the meantime, I just want ro say things are looking better all the time hereabouts with new directions and more diversity than ever before. Until a more favorable time, I must call it a night. Happy rails to all.

[LoveDomes]

Good evening Cap’n Tom and fellow travelers at the bar!


Back again, but only briefly! Just happened to be on line for other than goofing off and decided to, well . . . goof off! <grin> Saw Al’s comments at the bar and I decided that since hardly any of the guys here EVER visit “your other thread,” that I’d bring it over here . . . .

So, here’s my post and the response from Tom that started the dialogue Al jumped in on – but FIRST – how about a beer [?] One for the house too! [tup]

QUOTE: LoveDomes
Posted: Today, 15:11:26

Hiya Cap'n Tom

I'm not even going to try to dig up anything on the Erie - good grief! These are getting more difficult as the numbers rise! [swg]

So, here's my contribution for the day - DOMES - as the name implies, I love 'em . . .

Colorado Railcar Ultra Dome - Rocky Mountaineer



Colorado Railcar Ultra Dome - Holland America cruise lines



Alaska Railroad double deck dome by Colorado Railcar


Until the next time!


Lars

QUOTE: siberianmo
Posted: Today, 16:43:51

G'day!

Lars - chill, man - chill! [swg]No sweat about not having anything to provide regarding some of these rather obscure RRs from the past. They surely weren't back then - but material IS difficult to come by these days. Not worth the worry - just being Posted for the interest.

Now, domes is where it's at! I just don't care for excursion and tourist trains per se. I'm a "real railroad passenger fan" so to speak. Now having said that, I'm also a "veteran" of many, many VIA Rail Canada trips where the overwhelming number of passengers were in fact - tourists. Same for our recently concluded Alaskan rail adventure - virtually all tourist. However - and this is a big however - we were in the "real" cars - not those being towed along and owned by cruise ship operators. No thanx.

I like these new double deck domes - whether they are called Ultra Domes or something else. Having traveled them I can say they surpass any rail experience I've ever had -and that says A LOT for me! I'd love to see VIA Rail use them on their cross Canada trains and get into a serious replacement program for their aging fleet whereby the single and double level domes become the "norm."

Now Amtrak is a totally different matter. I dare say we'll NEVER see these cars on Amtrak nor will we see replacements for the Superliner equipment. Stuff is simply breaking down, with the fleet dwindling so rapidly that talk of laying up a long distance train or two isn't really conjecture - at least that's what I'm hearing and reading - and NOT from Forum sources.

America's passenger rail system just plain ISN'T - but it could be. Using modern equipment is only one step in the right direction. We need a commitment from the Congress to put into place a RELIABLE, SAFE and MODERN system - one that moves people efficiently from place to place, free from the entanglements of bureaucratic BS and political gobbledygook. WIll it happen [?] Nope - not in two lifetimes, is my guess - and I'm 68.

Okay, that's it - and all begun because you Posted those Domes! [swg]

Later!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

Thought you’d like “the rest of the story!”


Nice spread of URLs from our resident UrlMeisterMonsterMan! [tup]


Until the next time!


Lars

[wanswheel]

Hi Tom & everyone, a round for the house

Great photos of Grand Central today.

I raided the Library of Congress again. Hope it's not too many.

Grand Central Depot
http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cph/3b40000/3b46000/3b46000/3b46079r.jpg
http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cph/3b20000/3b25000/3b25100/3b25133r.jpg

Grand Central Station
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/det/4a00000/4a08000/4a08800/4a08820r.jpg

Grand Central Terminal
1 http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/ggbain/11600/11674r.jpg
2 http://home.mindspring.com/~railroadstories/sciam19110617/images/gcs01.jpg
3 http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/ggbain/01800/01836r.jpg
4 http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cph/3b20000/3b27000/3b27200/3b27243r.jpg
5 http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cph/3b30000/3b32000/3b32500/3b32508r.jpg
6 http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cph/3b20000/3b21000/3b21800/3b21850r.jpg

Thumbnail of New York Central Building
http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cph/3b30000/3b32000/3b32500/3b32509t.gif

New York Central Building on the skyline to the right of the Chrysler Building
http://www.cvrma.org/pictures/MISC/dfrr4050_long_island_rr_barges_icy_east_river_nyc_1945.jpg

Excavation & Construction
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/det/4a20000/4a22000/4a22900/4a22982r.jpg
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/det/4a20000/4a22000/4a22900/4a22981r.jpg
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/det/4a20000/4a27000/4a27500/4a27519r.jpg

World War II Mural
1 http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/fsa/8b37000/8b37500/8b37517r.jpg
2 http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/fsa/8b14000/8b14600/8b14677r.jpg
3 http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/fsa/8b37000/8b37500/8b37542r.jpg
4 http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/fsa/8b16000/8b16200/8b16215r.jpg

People looking at the mural
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/fsa/8b14000/8b14600/8b14685r.jpg

5 o'clock Shadow
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/fsa/8c33000/8c33200/8c33205r.jpg

U.S. Mail
http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/ggbain/19700/19731r.jpg
http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/ggbain/19700/19730r.jpg

Grand Central Station Post Office
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/ny/ny1600/ny1617/photos/119248pr.jpg
Post Office basementtrack level
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/ny/ny1600/ny1617/photos/119258pr.jpg
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/ny/ny1600/ny1617/photos/119259pr.jpg

20th Century Limited in the days of steam
http://www.cvrma.org/pictures/MISC/dfrr4012_new_york_central_20th_century_ltd_1930.jpg
http://www.cvrma.org/pictures/MISC/dfrr4019_ny_central_20th_century_ltd.jpg
NYC Hudson River steam
http://www.cvrma.org/pictures/MISC/dfrr4016_ny_central_hudson_river_line_croton_ny_1930s.jpg

Also, to fix (or compound) an error from the other day...

"More Alco" (sorry about that)
http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo=200310232103157637.jpg&byrail%3A91%3AMaine_Central

EMDs
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=251833

Tom, my ride on the Long Island Rail Road was more comfortable than riding a bicycle uphill in the rain.
The new cars (new to me, it was my first trip in many years) are so different. I liked the old ones.
They use the word "platform" as a verb, as in "The two rear cars will not platform at this station."
No need to change at Jamaica anymore, and I kind of missed that. It was always a highlight.
Sinking into the East River tunnel made my ears pop, and I remembered my Dad's advice: Swallow.

The subway cost 2 bucks for a fifteen-cent tokenless slivver of plastic. The Staten Island Ferry is free,
but the view from the boat is substantially less for a gigantic ugly Wachovia Tower at the tip of Manhattan.
Skyscrapers in New Jersey are a distraction as well. The Statue of Liberty looks glorious as ever.

I was drawn to look through the fence at Ground Zero. Not much to see there, but a lot of memories.

Mike

[passengerfan]

Good Afternoon Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for a CR and a round for the house.

Really enjoyed the Detroit tunnel and Grand Central Terminal write ups.

Just dropped by the other thread for a minute and read your treatise on passenger trains in the US. Even in California the High Speed Rail is in trouble if we don't get a continuing bond passed this fall. If ever their is a state that needs a high speed rail service it is this state. The proposed Los Angeles to Oakland service to operate via the valley with connecting service to Sacramento is probably twenty years overdue. Just take a trip down the valley on I-5 or 99 on any day and the traffic is horrendous. ! Billion is to be spent bringing 99 up to intersate standards and even taht is not going to solve the congestion problems on th states to main North - South routes. The third North -South route 101 would require nearly 2 billion to bring it up to interstate standards and would never return the cost of the investment.
Yes high speeed rail is going to cost more than 10 billion but with both LAX and SFO already operating at near capacity it is the only alternative. Whether it is RR on private right of way operating at 200 mile per hour speeds or Mag-Lev operating at 300 miles per hour and highway speeds probaly never exceeding 70 mph in the state is their any other way to go.

With gasoline prices not very likely to drop the government also needs to look at assisting the railroads in electrification of the heaviest traveled main lines. With the known coal reserves we have this only makes sense. For all of those that pushed for the nuclear generating plants to be closed may they be forced to pay twelve dollars a gallon for gasoline.

Enough of my tyrade for the day set up another round on me and i'll cool down fof awhile.

TTFN Al

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Just stopped in over at "my other Thread" after offering a [soapbox] bit on my thoughts regarding America's passenger train situation. Feel better - it's off my chest! [swg]

So, some good stuff here from CM3 in the form of supplemental and ENCORE! information regarding gct. I think the plaudits from Lars said it best. [tup]

Was wondering if we were going to see ya today! Thanx for stopping by - the quarters and the round! Always something "missing" without the WVA Report! [tup]

Lars You seem to be in quite the upbeat mood and mode today, Sir! Whatever it is you have been drinking - order me one! [swg] For some reason, I'm absolutely fatigued this afternoon - must be the blasted heat - can't handle it. <groan>

I'm rather unsure regarding Pete's return date - but it will be rather late in the month, not mid. Now BK remains the puzzle. My guess is he'll just show up and that will be that.

That was quite an outpouring regarding your feelings on baseball's mercenaries. [wow] I want you to know that I share every bit of your thoughts on the matter - feel the same way. Love the game - appreciate the skills - can't stand the direction MLB has taken. I'd like to see someone like Bob Costas become Commissioner. If you've ever listened to what he has to say - or even better, read his books - this guy is "spot on" when it comes to what needs to be done in order to cure the ills of the game. And let's not pretend the game is anything other than ill. <sad>

Glad the both of you enjoyed the GCT Post - it was a difficult endeavor but rather rewarding in that I appreciated learning the history of the place. I too have some wonderful memories from both major NYC rail centers. [yeah]

Okay - Boris RIng it! Drinks on the house . . .

REMINDER:
Leon the Night Man takes the bar at 9 PM (Central)!

Later! [tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[LoveDomes]

G’day Cap’n Tom and fellow travelers at the bar!

What ho! [?] One of my all time favorite railroad palaces – Grand Central Terminal in New York City! [wow] Do I ever have memories of that fine place along with an equal number from old Penn Station. Oh how the years pass and changes change everything – everything that is except the indelible images far within my “thing” called a memory! [tup]

Extremely well done piece, Cap’n Tom and I applaud you for the perseverance in keeping at it until you got it “right!” [yeah] [tup] Undoubtedly there are many guys “out there” who may not have a clue regarding the effort it takes to compile one of your works of interest. The uploading – the downloading – the editing – the proofreading – trying it out B4 posting, et al. A five-[tup] Salute to you Sir! [tup] [tup] [tup] [tup] [tup] Just love these “specials” of yours! [wow] [wow] and [yeah]

Also, Shane you’ve overdone it as well. What a great addition and compliment to the GCT story. There’s simply nothing I can add to any of it – for to do so would look amateurish by comparison. Well done, Sir and a 5-[tup] to you too! [tup] [tup] [tup] [tup] [tup]

Always good to take in the info from our museum guys, Doug ‘n Rob they keep coming up with “keepers,” huh [?] Great stuff, guys – all designed to provide our clientele with so many diverse but connected compilations of railroading in America and Canada. You guys are also in line for a 5-[tup] Salute! [tup] [tup] [tup] [tup] [tup]

A visit from Eric – let’s see, that’s 2 in succession. Could it be . . . . [?] Hope so! As Tom inferred, this place IS addictive! [swg] By the way, Tom is absolutely correct – we are in CYBER SPACE - let your hair down, so to speak, and have some fun. Too many times guys take this stuff far too seriously when it is really all about having fun. That’s the “F” word I can live with! [tup]

Set ‘em up barkeep and here’s a couple of ten spots – put whatever is left in “The Lars Box” for another day! [tup] I’ll have a frosty cold bottle of Narragansett (red label) and I’d appreciate it if you’d slide those pretzels down my way. Thanks! [tup]

I know it sounds like bragging, but can you believe my Mets [?] I mean this is some season for them and all of us who have long suffered through the doldrums. The owners have opened up the bank accounts and brought in sufficient numbers of mercenaries to make the team very, very competitive and fun to watch.

You see, I call it what it is. No bleary-eyed crap from me. I’d much prefer to see our “home growns” play the game – but these days that’s not to be. So we go with the international approach. Bothers me very much to realize how much U.S. cash leaves the country by way of these high paid prima-donnas – but that’s life in the fast lane, huh[?] So, the cry is Let’s Go Mets!] – I’m sure there are multi-lingual variations of that cheer. <groan>

Tom can’t say enough about what you do for this place – just fantastic and ongoing effort. Where do you find the time and energy to keep up the pace [?] Unbelievable! Thanks, mate! [tup]


So, we are into mid-June and that should mean a return to the bar for BK and pretty soon thereafter, Wolfman Pete! Let’s hope the next round of absences don’t decimate our numbers quite the way these past several weeks of them have.

One more, then I gotta skedaddle. “His master’s voice” is bellowing beckoning, and I must acquiesce to her demands requests! [swg]


Until the next time!


Lars

[coalminer3]

Good Afternoon (!?) Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.

Running late today (just like ATK 50) account work assignments. Anyway, we made it.

Lots of good material out there today.

Liked the dome material; especially the variety of cars.

The story abt Teddy and the trolley brought back some memories. One of my late, lamented rail watching friends grew up in Pittsfield in the 1920s. I was out there visiting one time, and he showed me where the incident happened and told me the story as it had been relayed to him by his father.

Then we had another installment on the Detroit tunnels.

Also appreciated the material on the armored trolley car – somehow the idea of the Great Commoner and an armored vehicle is pretty imaginative.

Last, but not least is Tom’s collection/narration/history of GCT.

Grand Central was my first exposure to New York and I remember very well exiting from the train (New Haven’s “42nd Street” from Boston, IIRC) walking up the platform and entering the biggest room I had ever seen. Hell, when you’re about 10 yrs old or so, you don’t have much experience in anything; but I was rooted to the spot where I stood looking up at the constellations in the ceiling (BTW, they’re backwards) and thinking that this, truly was something special. The clock and information booth were, of course, in the middle of the lobby.

Now, you could go from the station to the Commodore Hotel w/o going outside, but, you had, again IIRC, go to the Vanderbilt Ave. side to get a cab if you were staying elsewhere. The Biltmore was right across the street, but I think you did have to go outside to get there.

On the upper level the ticket windows are on the opposite side from the train gates. Some were for the New Haven and some were for the New York Central. Back then, the NYC had not gutted its intercity fleet so there was a pretty fair amount of activity, even during the day. The train roll signs were magnificent as they held promise of Pullman travel to exotic places such as Montreal, Detroit, Niagara Falls, and Chicago. Incidentally, later on I did ride from GCT to Chicago and the trip along the Hudson to Albany was every bit as good as advertised. The number of short haul and long haul trips to and from GCT was too high to count.

Suburban trains were downstairs – lots of mu cars on the New Haven and electric-locomotive hauled and mu stuff for the NYC. I used to ride Harlem and Upper Harlem Line (no checked remains handled to Valhalla – who out there remembers that wonderful footnote in the NYC tt?) trains to the in-law’s house when I was married to my ex. Power was electric locomotives to White Plains and RS3s from there. Later on the RS3s were replaced by FL9s – it seemed really strange to hear NYNH&H Hancock whistles on Harlem line trains. All of that is gone now as the locomotive-hauled trains have been replaced by electric stuff.

I am reposting something re GCTs physical plant from an earlier page – thought it would add a little bit more.

Going to Grand Central we would swing up and over the New York Central on a magnificent flying junction at Woodlawn. Then we would drop down on the west side and tie in with the NYC. Here was a stretch of big time railroading for certain as our train shared space not only with other New Haven trains, but with the trains of the mighty Central. Heading into New York, we’d pass by the Central’s Mott Haven yard which was on the right hand side of our train.

Mott Haven was a delight as it was always filled with not only with New Haven cars of all types, but also stainless steel New York Central cars, two-tone gray New York Central cars, and visiting sleepers and other equipment from foreign lines such as the Santa Fe and the Union Pacific. Here’s where the time spent studying the timetables my father brought home paid off, as I was able to recognize the different kinds of cars when I saw them, and sometimes could even figure out what trains they were from or for. Over there’s part of the “Ohio State Limited,” those cars are for the “20th Century,” and there’s a Los Angeles-New York sleeper off the Santa Fe!

The New York Central’s Hudson line joined us from the right just south of Mott Haven and from there the procession into New York was on a high elevated track through Harlem. Many times, we stopped at 125th Street, and I was often lucky to see a New York Central run pulled by one of their electric locomotives. The buildings here were different than those in Boston. I could see apartment houses with factories nearby, often on the same block. Many of these building had wooden water towers on their roofs, again something that was not that common in Boston.

We’re getting close now and here we go into the Park Avenue tunnel. If I stretched just right I could look up through the openings in the tunnel and see the tall buildings that marked the passage toward Grand Central. The entrance to Grand Central was always thrilling as we crept through the darkness of the tunnel toward our assigned track. We’re going very slowly now, past the underground tower with the lighted boards that controlled train movements in and out of the station. One last shudder and we stop. Now’s the time to make sure we have everything we brought along with us - the car attendant has our bags out on the high level platform. Sometimes I carried my bags, but most of the time we used the services of a Red Cap, especially if the family was traveling together.

Work safe

[siberianmo]

Hey Rob!

We seem to be just missing one another . . .

Glad you enjoyed the GCT - that one took quite a bit of time to reformat and edit for this Forum. Beginning to wonder about the "labor costs!" [swg]

Just wanted to acknowledge you while I'm "up" . . .

Haven't seen you for awhile over on "my other Thread" - we could use some traction! <grin>

Later! [tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[trolleyboy]

Just a quick pop back in. Tom a Keith's to go er well never mind I'll drink it here and then go.[swg] You should see the picture of that armoured trolley. I think it would be too dark for me to scan but the thing looks like a ram bowed counter sterned turn of the last century armoured cruiser. Essentially a land going mini-me of the Cruiser Olympia .The seagoer looked like something out of that crazy Wild West movie made acouple of years back. Rall spindly legs of iron with a, living room and veranda straped onto the top of it. I;ll try to scan the photo's and post them tonight but I don't think that they will come out. Well Tom happy rails for the day, I'll pop back in tonight after work.

Rob

[siberianmo]

G'day Gents!

Another beautiful start to the day here in mid-continent USA with clear skies and comfortable temps – should reach the low 90s (F) today, which will keep Juneau The Wonder Husky and I indoors! <grin>.


Had a bit of difficulty with my “special Post” this morning – kept dropping a complete paragraph! Finally figgered it out, but took “forever” – but no point in getting into that here. Bottom line – it’s beed edited and I hope those of you who read these things enjoy the RR Stations – Depots & Terminals #2 – New York City’s Grand Central Terminal.


Some comments and acknowledgments are in order I see:

trolleyboy Rob
Posted: 14 Jun 2006, 23:25:39 & 23:55:55

While our number remains relatively small, especially in terms of contributing material, it is past due for new “stuff.” Can always use it later on for our ENCORE! Saturdays.

Just wish we’d get some solidarity with the reading ‘round the place. There really aren’t that many Pages flying by on our Thread – so it’s just hard for me to accept this negative aspect of our interaction. I think Lars picks up on it right away – and so do I. Pretty much been that way since we began – but only with a few.

Another new series, eh [?] I think you are treading on some “protected turf” using the “barn” term. Don’t’ want to get in between you and Doug over that one! <grin>

What an inglorious ending that would’ve been for “Teddy,” a rough ‘n tough kinda guy, fer sure, fer sure! Wish all of our world leaders had the “marbles” he had! [yeah] Anyway, too bad anyone was killed in that incident, much less harmed.


EricX2000 Eric
Posted: 14 Jun 2006, 23:56:12

Hope you find this place habit forming! We’ve got to find out what your drink of choice is – after all, this is cyber space, and what one “consumes” in the Ether, cannot harm you! [swg]

Don’t know if you picked up on the URL I posted for some info on St. Louis’ Union Station – it’s worth the read. Anyway, aside from the departure of the excursion train I mentioned, things haven’t changed that much since your last visit. It’s an interesting edifice and certainly well worth the time to peruse. It will definitely be one of our stops during the 2007 Rendezvous in St. Louis along with lunch over at Maggie O’Briens – one of my all time favorite ‘watering holes.’

Oh yes, THANX for the Pix! [tup]


barndad Doug
Posted: 14 Jun 2006, 05:10:47

Interesting shots of the trains and narratives in connection with the Detroit River Tunnel. You always seem to find the most interesting “stuff” for us! [tup] [tup] Joke [?] THAT was a joke [?] <frown> You do know that there are at least ten thousand UNEMPLOYED comedians “out there!” <grin>


trolleyboy Rob
Posted: 15 Jun 2006, 09:55:19 & 10:30:15

Sorry I missed you this AM – saw you “up” but couldn’t get “on” as I was having all kinds of difficulty getting my GCT Post to “work” – maddening to say the least.

Anyway, good to “see ya” and appreciate your stopping by in the daylite! [swg]

I’m not so sure about the “seagoing trolley,” but I sure could do marvelous things with that “armored, gun carrying craft!” I’ve always envisioned having my “own” laser cannons mounted on either side of the front of my car – then “zap” – the roads would be much safer, but then the clean-up would be a problem. Ashes just everywhere! <grin>


Okay – ‘nuf of this . . .

I’ll be behind the bar for the day! So, whatillyahave [?]


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[trolleyboy]

Wow Tom, nice spread on Grand Central a truly remarkable builing. It's always nice to see that cities and raiway companies are trying tokeep these old structures alive and viable, In this case and in the case of Toronto Union ( your first terminal piece ) they are still amjor traffic hubs for both out of town trains and local a suburban commuter routes.

Rob

[trolleyboy]

Okay since I have the morning off, I'll drop upon you folks another tale of the wierd and bizzarre from the barn. Well at least unusual and exotic to me anyhow [swg]

Wierd Tales From The Barn # 2 Oddball Trolley's Pt 1

As we know, railroading can at times be an ecentric thing.The street railways were no exception to this rule. Many times during the early years of electrification 1880's to 90's many street railway companies tended to express themselves in unique ways with unique one off cars. here are two examples one from the US and one from Great Britain. I have poor magazine photo's of both cars an I will attempt to scan and clean them up ( may not be possible ) The text gives one a general idea of what they were if the pictures don't come out.

article by Frank Rowsome c1956

" Of all the *** trolley's ever built, perhaps none was stranger than the armoured, gun carrying craft that emerged from a carbarn at Fitchburg Mass in the fall of 1896. It was modelled after the Brooklyn , a formidable vessel in the Great White Fleet.It brandished two 6-pounders in barbettes astride the bows, plus a fearsome 18- pounder on the main deck. There appear to have been additional guns in the rear to discourage pursuit. Built on a self propelled faltcar ( work motor ), this armoured trolley was 37 feet long, and 9 feet wide. She had a perfusuion of portholes, a bridge,and, somewhat perplexingly an anchor.

Whether she was seriously intended as an exparamental land cruiser or was built simply as a stunt is uncertain.Some evidence points each way. There were sober articles written about such a weapon in the Litterary Digest and the Electrical Review . The Digest called it "an instrument of warfare of infinate use". The Review pondered that " it is not beyond the range of medern mechanics to build a car that would be bullet proof, and that would constitute a travelling fort... it could carry men and guns from one point to another wiht great celerity "

Arguing against it's actual marshall uses there are other bits of evidence.
1) It was promptly christenned the Mckinnley and saw imidiate action in the campaining against William Jennings Bryant

2) Although, as James D Hill wrote later about it, it's proponenets laid great stress upon the lead ballasted bow whose speacial design, augmenetd by the brute force of 60 horsepower motors, could shear it's way throuhg any barricade. They overlooked that someone might desend upon the power lines and separate it from iot's power sorce.

3) Inspectiomn opf surviving photo's off it show a small lifeboat suspended on davits on the port side.It's not clear how, in doughty defence of the republic,a lifeboat could come in very handy on an armoured streetcar.


The second bizzare trolley comes from England. This one required a lifeboat ! Infact several.

A seagoing trolley ran in the 1890's from Brighton to Rottingdean. One of the most cheerfully lunatic vehicles ever made. The 36 ton Pioneer ran on a three mile track that was 14 feet beneth the waves at high tide. It was built on four tubular steel legs had two decks, a sumptuous yacht saloon, and lifeboats for 150 passengers. A weel aftre the Pioneer familiarly known as Daddy Long Legs made it's inaugural run in 1896, it was totally wrecked in a storm. Rebuilt the following spring, Daddy Long Legs had a successfull three year life as a tourist attraction, including one red letter day when King Edward VII, and then Prince of Wales, accompanied by the Duke and Dutchess of Fife made a happy round trip on this seagoing trolley.

Enjoy Rob

[siberianmo]

Railroad Stations – Terminals & Depots

Number Two –
New York City’s Grand Central Terminal


Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements.


Grand Central Terminal (New York City)


The main concourse in 2006 (GNU Free Documentation)

Grand Central Terminal (often still called Grand Central Station) is a train station at 15 Vanderbilt Avenue in Midtown Manhattan, a borough of New York City, located at 42nd Street and Park Avenue. Built by the New York Central Railroad (for which it was named) in an era of many long-distance passenger trains, it is the largest train station in the world by number of platforms: 44, with 67 tracks along them. They are situated on two underground levels with 41 tracks on the upper level and 26 on the lower.

Currently it serves commuters commuting on the Metro North Railroad to Westchester, Putnam, and Dutchess counties in New York, and Fairfield and New Haven counties in Connecticut. It is also a major station on the New York City Subway.

Although it has been properly called "Grand Central Terminal" for a century, many people continue to refer to it as "Grand Central Station." Technically, that is the name of the nearby post office and New York City Subway station on the IRT Lexington Avenue Line, as well as the name of a previous station on the site.


Layout

Besides train platforms, Grand Central contains restaurants (the most famous of which is the Oyster Bar), fast food outlets, delis, newsstands, a food market, an annex of the New York Transit Museum and over forty retail stores.

Main Concourse


The clock in the Main Concourse
© 2004 Metropolitan Transportation Authority


Grand Central Terminal, along 42nd Street, next to the Grand Hyatt New York and the Chrysler Building

The Main Concourse is the center of Grand Central. The space is cavernous and usually filled with bustling crowds. The ticket booths are here, although many now stand unused or repurposed since the introduction of ticket vending machines.

The main information booth is in the center of the Concourse. This is a perennial meeting place, and the four-faced clock on top of the information booth is perhaps the most recognizable icon of Grand Central Terminal.


The Redstone missile making a guest appearance

Outside the station, the clock in front of the Grand Central facade facing 42nd Street contains the world’s largest example of Tiffany glass and is surrounded by sculptures carved by the John Donnelly Company of Minerva, Hercules and Mercury. For the terminal building French sculptor Jules-Alexis Coutan created what was at the time of its unveiling, 1914, considered to be the largest sculptural group in the world. It was 48 feet high, the clock in the center having a circumference of 13 feet.

The upper level tracks are reached from the Grand Concourse or from various hallways and passages branching off from it.

Ceiling

In 1999 a 12 year restoration of Grand Central revealed to commuters that the concourse had an elaborately decorated astrological ceiling, painted in 1912 by French artist Paul César Helleu, and which had been obscured by decades of tobacco smoke.

There are two peculiarities to this ceiling. First, the sky is backwards. Second, all of the stars are off by a bit. This is because the ceiling is based on a medieval manuscript. This manuscript visualized the sky as it would look from outside the celestial sphere, which is why the constellations are backwards. As the celestial sphere is an abstraction (stars are all at different distances from the earth, not lying on some sphere), this view doesn't correspond to the actual view from anywhere in the universe. The reason for the displacement of the stars is that the manuscript showed a (reflected) view of the sky in the middle ages, and due to precession of the equinoxes, the stars have all moved.

Dining Concourse

The Dining Concourse is below the Main Concourse. It contains many fast food outlets and restaurants, the world-famous Oyster Bar with its Guastavino tile vaults, and provides access to the lower level tracks. The two levels are connected by numerous stairs, ramps, and escalators.

Vanderbilt Hall

Vanderbilt Hall, named for the Vanderbilt family who built and owned the station, is located just off the Main Concourse. It is used and rented out for various events.

Omega Board

The Omega Board was an electromechanical display mounted in Grand Central Terminal used to display the times and track numbers of arriving and departing trains. Shaped like a large black block with rows of flip panels to display train information on the front, the Board was visually incongruous with the rest of the terminal - its boxy shape contrasted strongly with the classical design of the Terminal. It was replaced with a more aesthetically fitting electronic display during renovation of Grand Central Terminal in the 1990s.

Subway Station

The subway platforms at Grand Central are reached from the Main Concourse. The subway areas of the station lack the majesty that is present throughout most of the rest of Grand Central. The Grand Central shuttle platforms were originally the Grand Central express stop on the original Interborough Rapid Transit (IRT) line, opened in 1904. Once the east side IRT was extended uptown in 1918, the original tracks were converted to shuttle use. Only the #1 track is still connected to the main line on the east side, but not for passenger use. A fire in the 1960s destroyed much of the shuttle station, which has been rebuilt. The only sign of the fire damage is truncated steel beams visible above the platforms.

Grand Central North

Grand Central North is a relatively recent addition that provides access to Grand Central from 47th and 48th streets. It is connected to the Main Concourse through two long hallways, known as the Northwest and Northeast passages, which run parallel to the tracks.

History

Three buildings serving essentially the same function have stood on this site. The original large and imposing scale was intended by the New York Central Railroad to enhance competition and compare favorably in the public eye with the arch-rival Pennsylvania Railroad and smaller lines.

Grand Central Depot

Looking out the north end of the Murray Hill Tunnel towards the station in 1880; note the labels for the New York and Harlem and New York and New Haven Railroads; the New York Central and Hudson River was off to the left. The two larger portals on the right allowed some horse-drawn trains to continue further downtown.

Grand Central Depot was designed to bring the trains of the New York Central and Hudson River Railroad, the New York and Harlem Railroad, and the New York and New Haven Railroad together in one large station. The station opened in October 1871, but the exact dates are not clear. The original plan was for the Harlem Railroad to start using it on October 9, 1871 (moving from their 27th Street depot), the New Haven Railroad on October 16, and the Hudson River Railroad on October 23, with the staggering done to minimize confusion. However the Hudson River Railroad didn't move to it until November 1, which puts the other two dates in doubt. The headhouse building containing passenger service areas and railroad offices was an "L" shape with a short leg running east-west on 42nd Street and a long leg running north-south on Vanderbilt Avenue. The train shed, north and east of the headhouse, had two innovations in U.S. practice: the platforms were elevated to the height of the cars and the roof was a balloon shed with a clear span over all of the tracks.

Grand Central Station

The exterior of Grand Central Station c. 1904.



The interior of Grand Central Station c. 1904.

Between 1899 and 1900, the headhouse was essentially demolished (it was expanded from 3 to 6 stories and an entirely new facade put on it) but the train shed was kept. The tracks that had previously continued south of 42nd Street were removed and the train yard reconfigured in an effort to reduce congestion and turn-around time for trains. The reconstructed building was renamed Grand Central Station.

Grand Central Terminal

Between 1903 and 1913, the entire building was torn down in phases and replaced by the current Grand Central Terminal which was designed by the architectural firms of Reed and Stern and Warren and Wetmore who entered an agreement to act as the associated architects of Grand Central Terminal in Feburary of 1904. Reed & Stern were responsible for the overall design of the station, Warren and Wetmore added architectural details and the Beaux-Arts style. Charles Reed was appointed the chief executive for the collaboration between the two firms on the project who promtly appointed Alfred T. Fellheimer head of the combined design team. This work was accompanied by the electrification of the three railroads using the station and the burial of the approach in the Park Avenue tunnel. The result of this was the creation of several blocks worth of prime real estate in Manhattan, which were then sold for a large sum of money.

For the Terminal Building French sculptor Jules-Alexis Coutan created what was at the time of its unveiling, 1914, considered to be the largest sculptural group in the world. It was 48 feet high, the clock in the center having a circumference of 13 feet. It depicted Mercury flanked by Hercules and Minerva and was carved by the John Donnelly Company.

A revolutionary station

Upper level (mainline) layout



Lower level (suburban) layout

In order to accommodate the ever-growing rail traffic into the restricted Midtown area, William J. Wilgus, chief engineer of the New York Central railroad took advantage of the recent electrification technology to propose a novel scheme: a two level station situated below ground.

Incoming trains would go underground under Park Avenue, and proceed to an upper-level incoming station if they were mainline trains, or further below to a lower-level platform if they were suburban trains. In addition, turning loops within the station itself precluded complicated switching moves to bring back the trains to the coach yards for servicing. Outgoing mainline trains were backed-up the conventional way to upper-level platforms.

Burying electric trains underground brought an additional advantage to the railroads: the ability to sell above-ground air rights over the tracks and platforms for real-estate development. With time, all the area around Grand Central Terminal saw prestigious apartment and office buildings being erected, which turned the area into the most desirable commercial office district of Manhattan.

The terminal also did away with bifurcating Park Avenue by introducing a circumferential elevated driveway that allowed Park Avenue traffic to traverse around the Terminal building and over 42nd Street without encumbering nearby streets. The terminal building was also designed to be able to eventually reconnect both segments of 43rd Street by going through the concourse if the City of New York demanded it (fortunately, this never happened).

The construction of Grand Central created a mini-city within New York, including a Commodore Hotel and various office buildings. It spurred construction throughout the neighborhood in the 1920s including the Chrysler Building.

In 1928, the New York Central built its headquarters in a 34-story building (now called the Helmsley Building) straddling Park Avenue on the north side of the Terminal's office building.

From 1948 to 1964 CBS headquartered its intial television broadcasting center in the station until 1964 in "Studio 40". The CBS Evening News began its broadcasts there with Douglas Edwards. Many of the historic events during this period, such as John Glenn's Mercury Atlas 6 space mission, were broadcast from this location (although the Walter Cronkite broadcasts were from studios in Washington, D.C.). Broadcasts from the studio were famed for shaky videos caused by train arrivals


View of Grand Central around 1918.

An endangered monument

View in the excavation for the new Grand Central Station, Sept. 1907.

During the 1960s, after the construction of the Pan Am Building (now the MetLife Building), there were three sets of plans to construct a highrise to take advantage of the air rights over Grand Central. One set was prepared by I.M. Pei and took the form of a glass cylinder with a wasp waist. The other two sets were prepared by Marcel Breuer.

The Pei design was intriguing; the Breuer designs were far clumsier examples of blank-faced repetitive modernism, completely insensitive to Grand Central's heritage. The project caused a brouhaha in the New York press, damaged Breuer's reputation, and along with public feeling about the recent well-documented destruction of nearby Penn Station, triggered widespread opposition and a landmark lawsuit. The resulting case was the first time that the Supreme Court ruled on a matter of historic preservation. Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis, a dedicated supporter of the terminal, said, "Is it not cruel to let our city die by degrees, stripped of all her proud monuments, until there will be nothing left of all her history and beauty to inspire our children? If they are not inspired by the past of our city, where will they find the strength to fight for her future? Americans care about their past, but for short term gain they ignore it and tear down everything that matters. Maybe... this is the time to take a stand, to reverse the tide, so that we won't all end up in a uniform world of steel and glass boxes."

The plans were ultimately scrapped. The Court saved the terminal, basing its decision on the notion that only if a change to a historic structure prevented said structure's owner from bankruptcy could such an alteration be made.

Restoration and the future

Intercity service to the station ended on April 7, 1991, with the completion of the Empire Connection, which allowed trains from Albany, Toronto and Montreal to directly serve Penn Station. Previously, travellers would have to change stations via subway, bus, or cab. Since then, Grand Central has exclusively served Metro North.

During the 1990s, the station was extensively renovated. These renovations were mostly finished in 1998, though some of the minor refits (such as the replacement of eletromechanical train info displays by the entry of each track with electronic displays) were not completed until 2000. The most striking effect was the restoration of the Main Concourse ceiling, revealing the painted skyscape and constellations which had been painted in 1912 by French artist Paul César Helleu and that had been hidden beneath soot and grime. Other modifications included a complete overhaul of the Terminal's superstructure and the replacement of the electromechanical Omega Board train arrival/departure display with a purely electronic display that was designed to fit into the architecture of the Terminal aesthetically.

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority's East Side Access project is expected to bring Long Island Rail Road trains into the terminal by 2012 to help relieve overcrowding in Penn Station and shorten commutes for Long Islanders who work on Manhattan's east side.

Currently, the exterior of the terminal is being cleaned and restored, starting with the west facade on Vanderbilt Avenue and gradually working counterclockwise. The northern facade, abutting the MetLife Building, will be left as is. The project involves cleaning the facade, rooftop light courts and statues; filling in cracks, repointing the stones on the facade, restoring the copper roof and the building's cornice, repairing the large windows of the Main Concourse, and removing the remaining blackout paint that was applied to the windows during World War II. The result will be a cleaner, more attractive and structurally sound exterior, and the windows will allow much more light into the Main Concourse. The work should be finished in 2007; as of 2006, restoration of the west and south façades has been completed.

Impact on design of transit centers

The design for Grand Central Terminal was an innovation in the way transit hubs were designed, and continues to influence designers to this day. One new concept was the use of ramps (as opposed to staircases) for conducting the flow of traffic through the facility (as well as aiding with the transport of luggage to and from the trains.) Another was the wrapping of Park Avenue around the Terminal above the street, creating a second level for the picking up and dropping off of passengers. As airline travel superseded the railroads in the latter half of the 20th century, the design innovations of Grand Central Terminal were later incorporated into the hub airports that were built.

Grand Central Terminal in popular culture



The 42nd Street entrance to Grand Central Terminal (1996).

As an accessible, photogenic New York City landmark, and as one of the prototypical Manhattan experiences, the terminal has had many appearances in pop culture.

The terminal is seen in films such as North by Northwest, Chronos, Men in Black, Carlito's Way, Extreme Measures, K-PAX, Madagascar, and is prominently featured in two 1940s MGM films, The Clock and Grand Central Murder. In Terry Gilliam's 1991 The Fisher King, Grand Central commuters burst into a spontaneous waltz. The front of the terminal is seen in the opening scenes of Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow.

In fiction, atomic pioneer Leo Szilard (one of the senior researchers on the Manhattan Project) wrote a short story entitled "Grand Central Station," about alien scientists who explore Grand Central Station as part of their mission to learn how life on Earth became extinct. A highly-regarded novel, By Grand Central Station I sat down and Wept, was written by Elizabeth Smart, in 1945.

And a dramatic radio program called "Grand Central Station" was broadcast from 1937 through 1995, beginning on the NBC Radio Blue Network, and opening with the words, "As a bullet train seeks its target, shining rails in every part of our great country are aimed at Grand Central Station, heart of the nation's greatest city."

The first four episodes of the long-running TV panel show "What's My Line?" were broadcast from CBS Studio 41, which was located in an upstairs area of Grand Central Terminal. The episodes aired from Feb. 20 to March 16, 1950.

In the movie, Superman, starring Christopher Reeve, Grand Central Terminal is depicted as having an abandoned section underground that is used as headquarters by Lex Luthor, and more than one short story describes abandoned sections of Grand Central that lead the protagonists into adventure.

In the hit 80s cartoon The Real Ghostbusters, the protagonists visited the terminal three times. Once in the episode Last Train To Oblivion, then in Look Homeward Ray and finally in I Am The City. The Extreme Ghostbusters visited it in Be Careful What You Wish For and it featured incorrectly as Penn Station (To the point of featuring the long demolished Penn Station exterior and Grand Cenral's main concourse).

During a segment on Robot Chicken, the protagonist of the skit tells a taxi driver the actual name of Grand Central Terminal. The scene continues on to her riding Metro-North, saying that the Hudson Line rules, and that she saved $5 on a monthly pass.

Grand Central was destroyed by meteorites in Armageddon.

In 2003, the Grand Central Terminal was featured in the Peanuts home video, I Want a Dog for Christmas, Charlie Brown.

Statistics

Size
. . . Covers 49 acres of land, 33 miles of track, 44 platforms
Trains
. . . 660 Metro North commuter trains
Commuters
. . . About 125,000 a day
Visitors
. . . 575,000 a day [excludes commuters]
Cost of renovation 1996–98
. . . 250 million dollars
Retail Businesses
. . . 95
Oldest Business
. . . Oyster Bar, opened 1913
Meals served in terminal daily
. . . 10,000
Newspaper recycled daily
. . . 5 tons
Percentage of trains on time
. . . 98
Items in lost and found
. . . 19,000
Most frequently lost item
. . . Coats [up to 2,000 a year]
Return Rate
. . . Over 60%, close to 98% for computers and iPods

References

• Local News in Brief, The New York Times September 29, 1871 page 8
• The Grand Central Railroad Depot, Harlem Railroad, The New York Times October 1, 1871 page 6
• Local News in Brief, The New York Times November 1, 1871 page 8
• Federal Writer's Project, New York City Guide, Random House Publishers, New York 1939
• Fried, Frederick & Edmund V. Gillon, Jr., New York Civic Sculpture. Dover Publications, New York, 1973
• Reed, Henry Hope, Edmund V. Gillon, JR., Beaux-Arts Architecture in New York: A Photographic Guide, Dover Publications, New York 1988
• Stern, Gilmartin & Massengale, New York 1900, Rizzoli International Publications, New York 1983

***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** *****

Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements.



Enjoy!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


Did you miss #1[?] Click on the URL:
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=289&TOPIC_ID=35270

[trolleyboy]

Good morning Tom and the boyz. [;)] I think a # 3 and a thermos of coffee isrequired this am, having trouble openning me peepers today [zzz] Nice to see a few patrons already in today or late yesterday as it goes. [tup]

Eric Nice shots of St Loo U. It's an interesting looking building, the arched roof at first glance makes me think it's a hanger at first look, but what an interesting design. To bad it's not a railhub anymore [sigh] The hotel inside kind of looks like a Puebelo Indian villiage.Still at least it's being used for something instead of being bulldozed for a bunch of mini-malls or something.

Doug Hey I loved part two of the Detroit Tunnel article. What an ordeal to lay out the tubes.Still it's an amazing bit of infrastructure.I had always wondered why such a ridiculously small pan was fitted to those locomotives. At first I remember seeing AF models of them and figured that it was just some poetic licence in the construction of the models. Then I saw actual photo's and just scratched my head. I knew that they were designed for third rail and left it at that. Now that I have read the article it all makes sence now ! [D)][#wstupid]

I see that sir Tom is in at the moment. An unusual occurance for he and I to be in at the same time. Pull up your plush stool there Tom and share a mug or two from my thermos. [tup]

Rob

[siberianmo]

[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]


SOMETHING very SPECIAL arrives on Track #1

THIS morning![tup]

Watch for it at 10 AM!


Tom[4:-)] [oX)]


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[siberianmo]

We open at 6 AM.
(All time zones - Don’t ask how we do that!)[swg]


THURSDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of POSTS


Thursday has arrived! C’mon in – enjoy a cup of freshly ground ‘n brewed coffee – a <light or <traditional breakfast from the Menu Board and of course one or two goodies from The Mentor Village Bakery!



Daily Wisdom


If the world were perfect, it wouldn’t be.
ENCORE! Yogi-ism



Info for the Day:


Railroads from Yesteryear –
New York, Chicago and St. Louis Railroad – Nickel Plate Road (NKP)
Arrives Tuesday – watch for it!


* Weekly Calendar:

TODAY: Fish ‘n Chips Nite!
Friday: Pizza Nite! & Steak Nite!
Saturday: Steak ‘n Trimmin’s Nite! – and –
ENCORE! Saturday



MVP Award Winners

April 2006 . . . LoveDome Lars
May – June . . To be announced


[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]


Comedy Corner

Yarns from the Barn
(from barndad Doug’s Posts)


[:I] A guy was sitting quietly reading his paper when his wife walked up behind him and whacked him on the head with a frying pan.
“What the hell was that for?” he asked.
“That was for the piece of paper in your pants pocket with the name Mary Lou written on it,” she replied.
“But you don’t understand,” he pleaded. “Two weeks ago when I went to the races, Mary Lou was the name of one of the horses I bet on.”
“Oh honey, I’m sorry,” she said. “I should have known there was a good explanation.”
Three days later he was watching a ball game on TV when she walked up and hit him in the head again, this time with the iron skillet, which knocked him out cold. When he came to, he asked, “What was that for?” he begged.
“Your horse called!” [:I]


[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]



The Mentor Village Emporium Theatre


NOW SHOWING:
Double Features and Three Stooges Short Subject!

. . . Sunday, June 11th thru June 17th: Major League II (1994) starring: Tom Berenger & Charlie Sheen –and- Mr. Baseball (1992) starring: Tom Selleck, K. Taukura & A. Takanashi. SHORT: Hoi Poloi (1935).

COMING ATTRACTIONS:

. . . Sunday, June 18th thru June 24th: League of Their Own (1992) starring: Tom Hanks, Geena Davis & Madonna – and – Memphis Belle (1990) starring: Matthew Modine, Eric Stoltz, Tate Donovan. SHORT: Three Little Bears (1935).


SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) EricX2000 Eric Posted: 14 Jun 2006, 01:24:08 (353) Early AM visit!

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Jun 2006, 07:28:50 (353) Wednesday’s Info & 18-Post Summary

(3) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 14 Jun 2006, 07:46:19 (353) Inclusive Gulf Coast report!

(4) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 14 Jun 2006, 08:48:45 (353) WVA Report ‘n model trains URLs, etc.

(5) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Jun 2006, 10:13:48 (353) Acknowledgments ‘n Comments

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Jun 2006, 11:02:39 (353) Toy ‘n Model Trains Day! Märklin

(7) LoveDomes Lars Posted: 14 Jun 2006, 15:01:34 (354) The Larsman Report w/Pix!

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Jun 2006, 17:25:47 (354) Acknowledgment ‘n Comments

(9) passengerfan Al Posted: 14 Jun 2006, 18:45:57 (354) Ultra Dome info

(10) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Jun 2006, 20:30:05 (354) Ultra Dome info

(11) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 14 Jun 2006, 23:25:39 (354) Count Robullas Inclusive Post!

(12) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 14 Jun 2006, 23:55:55 (354) WTB #1 – Trolley & Teddy Roosevelt

(13) EricX2000 Eric Posted: 14 Jun 2006, 23:56:12 (354) Nite Cap ‘n Pix!



That’s it![tup][;)]


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[Anonymous]

Good morning gents, and I'll have 1/2 a light breakfast please, as I have to off! Pretty good posting yesterday, with St.Louis Union pix from Eric, double-decker observation cars from Lars, an embarrasing Tale from the Barn" from Rob, the Marklin cars from Tom, and the CTC picture from Mike. I didn't get my hobby article done for yesterday, but you'll see one next week. For today, I can offer the 2nd part ofthe Detroit-Windsor article.

Down The Tubes – Vol. 17 Rail Classics – John Uckley

Upper left insert shows the old Michigan Central car ferry used before the tunnel. The ferry was subject to delays of many days during icy winter weather and was slow even in good weather. An MCR electric tunnel locomotive pulls a passenger train into Detroit from Canada through the new tunnel just opened in 1910. A westbound steam passenger train has just departed the Michigan Central station and is headed possibly for Chicago.


The tube sections were submerged in pairs, each for a single track of the double track tunnel. Each section was fitted with air tanks, air escape valves, and attendant piping to aid in sinking them into position in the trench. Divers capped the pipes after each tube was in place. Steel gridiron saddles, projecting about four feet above the trench bottom, were positioned so that each tube section would occupy one-half of each metal saddle. The whole operation was being carried out with tug crews and divers sinking the sections in a Detroit-to-Windsor direction. As soon as the flange of one section was fitted into the socket of the preceding section and a runner gasket maneuvered into position, this area was filled with cement grout to make the joints airtight. A steel wedge was also driven into a slot and pilot pin assembly at the top of the mated sections to ensure a permanent connection.

Only one of the sections failed to line up properly, due to the fact that its air tanks had been prematurely bled. Surveyors discovered this section to be two feet out of line with the rest of the underwater route. After tugs failed in a frustrating attempt at pulling the tube section into line with the aid of a pair of 22-ton anchors, it was decided to send divers down and attach air lines to the tube tanks so that the section could be refloated for a new effort. However, the hand of fate stepped in and solved the problem the following morning. A commodious passenger steamship from Cleveland passed up the river and churned over the underwater construction area. Its powerful wake embraced the errant section and rolled it neatly into its proper place. With this job finished, it was found that there was an alignment error of only 1/8 of an inch over the entire length of the tubes.

Connecting the underwater tubes to the Detroit approach tunnel was accomplished with the aid of a cofferdam. This dam was erected over and around the end of the first tube section. The ground was then five feet above the water’s surface at this location. Water within this dam-created “bay” was pumped out and the connection made between the river tube and the concrete dry land approach tunnel.

On the Windsor side, the link-up was made underwater. A trench was dug out from the unfinished end of the approach tunnel right down to the Detroit River shoreline, coming as close as possible to the water’s edge. A watertight bulkhead had been installed in the outer opening of the concrete approach tunnel to keep the river from flooding in when the tube section was connected by divers. Afterward, the outer trench circumference was filled in with clay to the original land level.

The next procedure involved the pouring of concrete from scows moored in the river. Concrete depth under the tunnel varies from one to six feet. The overall outer tube circumference is protected by three feet of concrete. The outer trench area was packed with gravel to a height of eleven feet above the concreted base. This was then packed with clay and various rubble for added support, thus forming an enduring monolithic casing from end to end.

Michigan Central electric #7505 was built in May, 1910 by American Locomotive Company and General Electric at Schenectady, New York especially for the Detroit River Tunnel service. Behind the locomotive is one of two signal towers built to serve the tunnel.


Water was then pumped from the first five tube sections and initial interior concreting commenced. Workmen applied an 18-inch layer of reinforced concrete. He circular form of the tubes was adhered to until such a height was reached so as to form a bench, which served the purpose of providing conduits for electrical wires and also as a safety walkway. Rail-level-to-walkway ladders were located every fifty feet.

Draining was to be handled by five sumps. The tunnel rails rest on ties that are three feet long; with every fifth tie extended to five feet to provide third rail support. Tunnel signaling was arranged so that a block signal zone extended from portal to portal in each tube.

With the construction of the 1-3/8 mile-long tunnel nearing completion, a modest fleet of electric locomotives was readied for Detroit-Windsor service. The first four units, Nos. 7500-7503, were built in February, 1910. Nos. 7504 and 7505 were erected in May, 1910. Classified as the R-1, these steeple-cab models weighed in at 206,360 lbs. And utilized a tractive force of 50,375 lbs. (Nos. 7500-7505 were later renumbered 160-165.)

The six R-1 electric locomotives built for tunnel service were equipped with truck mounted pick up shoes to collect third rail power. The small roof-mounted pantographs collected current from overhead bus bars in areas where complicated switching track made the third rail installation impractical. The 7502 was retired in 1953 and scrapped in 1956.


Each unit was given animation thanks to 600-volt Direct Current. Couplers and draft gears were attached to massive steel truck assemblies, while the trucks themselves were mated with jointed connectors. By conceiving this stratagem, builder Alco was able to “float” the locomotive frame and cab housing above the trucks; thereby providing much greater flexibility for the electrics while they were engaged in terminal switching maneuvers, ascending or descending the tunnel approach gradients with a heavy load of bouncing and swaying freight cars, and tracking the interior curvature of the underwater tube sections.

Penn Central GP35 leads a train into the tunnel from Detroit in 1974


[:I] An elderly man goes into confession and says to the priest,
"Father, I'm 80 years old, married, have four kids and 11 grandchildren. Last night I had an affair and made love to two 18-year-old girls. Both of them. Twice!"
The priest said, "Well, my son, when was the last time you were in confession?"
"Never, Father, I'm Jewish."
"So then, why are you telling me?"
"Father, it is not just you. I'm telling EVERYBODY!" [:I]

[EricX2000]

Good evening Leon, a cup of coffee please. It is late again, but at least I made it back. Trying to make this a habit.

Tom - I like your post about Märklin. I have a bunch of Märklin locomotives and cars. Bought the first set in 1955. That locomotive is still running, 51 years later. It’s correct that they run on AC, but they work just fine on DC as well. The only problem is that you need to be able to give the loco a 24V “push” in order to change direction. I am sure their new digital models work differently.

Lars - Interesting picture(s) of the Alaska Railroad Double Deck Domed Open Platform Car. I have never seen anything like it before. Must be pretty nice to go outside for a while when you are riding the train. It reminds me about train travel in the old country when I was a kid. Open platforms on older cars. I liked to stand their, looking forward along the side of the train. Getting smoke in my face from the locomotive. The last steam locomotive in passenger service was running until the early 60’s. After that they still had some steamers left in service until 1972. The winter 1965-66 was very long, cold, and snowy. That caused a lot of problem with newer lcomotives and the Swedish State Railways had to put a number of steam engines back into passenger service.

Al - 18’ high passenger cars, I guess they are still the highest passenger cars built. I am reading all your posts about streamliners and domes. Sweden never had any dome cars until a private railroad bought some from Germany in the mid-90’s. Must be a very nice way to travel and see the sights from above.

I have to go, but before I do I will show a couple of pictures of St. Louis Union Station. They are from 1993 so things may have changed. There is a nice hotel inside the former station.







The hotel is the building to the left.

Eric

[trolleyboy]

Okay, here's my first "new" piece of info now that we are getting back into the full swing of things here at the ole bar. This is the first of a new series of info from the trolleyboy barns. A new subset of features " Wierd Tales From The Barn"

Wierd Tales From The Barn #1 The Trolley and Teddy Roosevelt


exerpt from a local newspaper.

Once a trolley thretened to become a major player in US Politics.It came within a whisker of killing a US President, and nearly promoted a SecState to the office of the President of the US. Theodore Roosevelt had this run in on a dusty road just outside if Pittsfield Mass.The date was Sept 3 1902, barely a year after President Mackinnley's assasination.The President,Govener Crane of Mass were tooling along in the Presidents open horse drawn landau, pulled by four prancing white horses. Facing them was George B Cortelyou, later the sectratary of Commerce and Labour, and up on the box was the driver and a Secret Service man named William Craig. Five outriders were ridinbg along side in escort of the buggy. They were ahead of thee buggy and were to far away to render assistance,and to add to their mortification another buggy loaded with newspapermen was up ahead of them heading for the same Country Club which was the Presidents destination.

An open trolley, travelling in the same direction as the President's carriage overtook the Presidents carriage.Aboard it were a number of Pittsfields notables including the two top officers of the streetcar company.It was later rumoured and denied that they had ordered the motorman to hurry so that they could get to the Country Club in time to welcome the President.The trolley was in the centre of the road and the Landau on the right, well ahaed of both vehicles was a place where the car tracksswung from the center of the road to the right hand side.Concentrating on his prancing team, and unaware that the trolley was passing, the Landau's driver veered over the tracks.The landau was hit hard on it's rear left wheel and shoved aside,pitching it's occupants into the air.

The President tumbled in the dirt, recieving a bruise on his cheek,a banged knee a cut lip and a severe shaking up.His glasses were knocked flying, his silk hat frazzled, and his frock coat torn at one elbow.According to the NY Times he told the horrorstruck motorman ; " I Think this is the most ***able outrage I ever heard of "Govener Crane abd Secratary Courtelyou only recieved minor injuries; but the Landau driver was seriously hurt and SS agent Craig who stood up the instant of the impact to protect the President was thrown under the trolley and killed. The motorman , Euclid Madden, was fined 500 dollars and jailed for six months. Many Streetcarmen were convinced that Maden was only a victem of bad luck and of newspaper hue and cry.


So a Pittsfield newspaper recollection of Teddy Roosevelt's unfortunate run in with a trolleycar.


Rob

[trolleyboy]

Good evening Leon, a nice cold kokanee I think sir [tup] I see a fair bit of action has happened the last half of yesterday and today. Nice to see new info flowing again here at our place.

Tom I liked t your piece on Marklin, still one of those trusted brands in europe speacially their N scale equipmnet. I know a fella in my home town that's a huge Trix , Marklin and Flkeishman collector and runner all N for him, quite the card he is. Good to see so much initial intrest in "R2" for St Loo and Chitown [tup] we could do worse [swg]
I'll pass on your photographic kudos to Dave next time we see him at the musuem.He's an ex RCAF guy and his dad was one of the three, CWH members that found and was instrumental in getting the Lancaster for the musuem, so the plane has extra family meaning for Dave.

Lars Nice ultra dome shots sure, as always the Larsman knows his domes[swg]

Al Thanks for giving us the lowdown on the manufacture / remanufacture of the ultra domes. What a wonderfull job was done on them, I can't see any trace of their former herritage as baggage cars when I look at them.Hope the speach went well i do hate public speaking. [tdn]

Dave Good to see you still popping up at the ole bar.Unfortunatly i think all railroads are likley, guilty of abusing the other guys rolling stock and trying to get away with it. I remember many a horour story of WC rolling stock fresh from their shops returning to them in a more decrepite state than they were originally rebuilt from.Paper service and metal service cars ( gondolas coil cars ) seem to always take the biggest beatings while out on the road. That locomotive consist sounded perfectly unusual.

Another one from me. A CN autorack train headoing through bayview jct. Its power was 3 VIA F40PH's ( CN was getting time back on them as they had underwrtten the purchase back when they too were a crown corporation ) A CN M630 and two SW1200 RS's which were in transit to Mac yard.

Cm3 Ahh the old GD lines,the target that all modellers treid to live upto. The N scale road is also an MR and RMC mag classic as many an n scaler's treid to live upto it as well. I consider it the Gorre and Daphetid of n scale. Thanks for sharing the urls.

Doug Hey don't sweat the small stuff. I didn't have much to offer either. Most of what I had / have on the MEC was copyrighted stuff that I couldn't reuse. Most of it was pictures though and Tom did supply enough to give us a feel for the MEC abyway, I wuould have just been repeating stuff. A good choice of road to theme though Tom


Rob