"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[Anonymous]

Good mornin Breakfast Clubbers. Hi Cindy, hey "lookin' good" with that shiny Black Belt around your midriff.[:-^] Of all days to have a bevy of downloads and "up dates" from MSN and Windows, they picked this morning.[:(!] Looks like the Proprietor will be out most of the day. I'll do my humble best to keep the "home fires burning" while
Tom is "on the road."[:D] Yesterday, was a veritable bonanza of posts, so I kept a "low profile." When I saw the sheer volume, greatly inhanced by our own Rob's contributions, well, it was obvious I would just be "in the way." So today, let me just start by saying "this joint is jumping."

There were so many fine comments, articles, essays, data sheets and plain old "juicy gossip" that I don't no where to begin this frosty mornin. If I may be excused for a short recap of everything that "hit the fan," I will be more able to get this day rolling along "on track." So Cindy, I'll take Boris for his constitutional trot around the premisis and tether him by the shed. Then I'll return fore armed with some, hopefully, bits and pieces to share. Tom has already started the day of on the "right foot" and we don't want to let the momentum sag, do we? Okay, back in a "mo" with some 'mo.' See ya's soon.

[siberianmo]

G’day All!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #43

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the Santa Fe (AT&SF) from a 1949 advertisement in my personal collection.

always “at Ease” on El Capitan

Easy dress * Easy Comfort * Easy cost

”Come as your are!” on this famous Santa Fe
all-chair streamliner. Just 39 ¾ easy hors
between Chicago and California. Restful
club lounge car “just for fun!” Fred Harvey meals . . .
Coach fare plus a small extra fare . . .
Same route as The Chief
And Super Chief.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)][oX)]

CHECK THE MONDAY SUMMARY and INDEX PAGES FOR MORE GREAT NOSTALGIA POSTS!

[siberianmo]

WEDNESDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

We open at 6 AM, all time zones. (Don’t ask how we do that!) [swg]


I’m gone for most of the day, will be back well into the night. Nick – Rob and Ted said they’d keep things movin’ and Cindy has the bar! Remember – greet the bartender, order a drink, and keep those Posts comin’!

Draw a cuppa “Joe,” some pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery and whatever breakfast specials await you this fine day! [swg]


Daily Wisdom:

Nerves is just which end of a six-gun you happen to be looking at.


Info for the Day:

(1) CONTEST:
What date (time optional) will ”Our” Place reach the next plateau – page 200 [?] BONUS question: WHO will be the one to “turn the page” [?]

Participants . . . . . . Date chosen . . . . (Bonus) Who will put us over the top [?]
(in order of participation)
pwolfe . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Dec 20th . . . . . . . . . .siberianmo Tom
trolleyboy Rob . . . . . . . . . Dec 18th (12:05 PM) . siberianmo Tom
coalminer3 CM3 . . . . . . . .Dec 18th. . . . . . . . . . siberianmo Tom
barndad Doug . . . . . . . . . Dec 22nd . . . . . . . . . none
nickinwestwales Nick . . . .Dec 27th . . . . . . . . . .trolleyboy Rob
ftwNSengineer P . . . . . . . Dec 23rd . . . . . . . . . .trolleyboy Rob
jlampke John . . . . . . . . . Dec 24th (noon) . . . . . siberianmo Tom

CONTEST CLOSED!


SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) barndad Doug Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 05:26:23 (190) Great Pickleworks Wreck, Part II

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 13 Dec 2005 20, 06:27:37 (190) Tuesday’s Info & Summary

(3) barndad Doug Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 06:31:35 (190) Great Pickleworks Wreck, Part III

(4) siberianmo Tom Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 06:34:00 (190) NOSTALGIA #42 – NYC Dieseliner

(5) jlampke John Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 07:29:06 (190) Inclusive Post, etc.

(6) ftwNSengineer P Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 07:34:59 (190)

(7) passengerfan Al Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 07:51:12 (190) Streamliner #26 – Denver Zephyrs

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 08:32:43 (190) Acknowledgments, etc.

(9) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 08:56:39 (190) Inclusive Post, etc.

(10) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 09:34:07 (191) Inclusive Post!

(11) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 12:23:54 (191) Classic CNR Steam #9

(12) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 13:19:57 (190) daily pick-us-up!

(13) trainboyH16-44 Matt Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 13:24:23 (191)

(14) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 13:50:22 (191) responses

(15) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 14:32:05 (191) Classic CNR Steam #10

(16) jdonald Don Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 15:17:59 (191) Inclusive Post!

(17) uspscsx Matt Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 15:35:55 (191)

(18) pwolfe Pete Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 15:57:10 (191) Inclusive Post!

(19) siberianmo Tom Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 16:26:01 (191) Commentary

(20) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 16:49:23 (191) Inclusive Post!

(21) siberianmo Tom Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 17:10:45 (191) for: trolleyboy

(22) siberianmo Tom Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 19:17:47 (191) Acknowledgments, etc.

(23) wanswheel Mike Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 19:45:16 (191)

(24) siberianmo Tom Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 21:23:04 (191) reply to: wanswheel

(25) jdonald Don Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 22:14:00 (191)

(26) barndad Doug Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 22:47:07 (191) Inclusive Post & “Sorting on the Road, Part I”

(27) barndad Doug Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 22:48:52 (191) Sorting on the Road, Part II

(28) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 23:14:49 Inclusive Post, etc.

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[wanswheel]

WE BROUGHT THE NYC TO ITS KNEES
How Notre Dame students beat a railroad at its own game
By Joseph MacDonald

During the years 1932-36, I played in the Notre Dame University band, using a trombone I had bought with my earnings as a messenger in the offices of the Central Vermont Railway. The band made two trips to away football games each year; these were medium-length trips, to Cleveland or Pittsburgh or Chicago. We wanted badly to go to New York for the Army game in Yankee Stadium, and in fall 1935 we finally accumulated enough money to go, provided we could get a low enough train fare. It was my senior year, and my last chance
I was vice president of the band, and was delegated to negotiate for a reduced fare with the railroads serving South Bend, Ind. My first stop was the ticket window of the New York Central, where I asked to see a passenger agent. A haughty man came to the window: "What can I do for you, son?"
"I'd like to inquire about a special low fare for the Notre Dame band to go to New York City weekend after next."
"We have no special fares," he replied.
"But it's for the Notre Dame band," I said.
"I don't care who you are." "But there are 100 of us."
"I don't care how many of you there are," he said. "We have no special fares. The fare is twice the one-way fare less 10 percent, $64 round trip, coach. And if you want to go, you'd better tell us which train you want to go on, so we put a couple of extra coaches on for you."
"But why don't you have special fares?"
"Why should we?" he said. "We have the only railroad here."
"You do not have the only railroad here," I reminded him.
"Well, if you want to take the Pennsy's branch train down to Plymouth, and stand on the platform for a couple of hours, and crowd into their train, you're welcome to do so. And if you want to take the Grand Trunk Western here, and take a couple of days to get there, you're welcome to do that. But we have 17 trains a day to New York, and so far as we're concerned, we have the only service here."
I stepped next door to the GTW ticket window, and asked for a passenger agent. I told this man I wanted to inquire about a special low fare for the Notre Dame band to New York. He said, "Come on in."
Inside the office, he asked, "Now, what's this all about?" I told him, including what the New York Central had said about the GTW.
"Oh they did, did they?" he said. "We've always had trouble with the New York Central. We paid half the cost of the track elevation and of this station in South Bend. The name of the station is Union Station, but they persist in calling it New York Central Station. We've tried for years to offer group rates for students, but they've blocked us every time. Now you're looking for a special fare to New York; how would a cent a mile suit you, say, $18 round trip?"
We didn't have $6400 for the NYC, but we did have $1800. So I said, "That's just what we're looking for."
"Well," the GTW agent said, "that's what we would like to offer you. As far as the Grand Trunk Western is concerned, that's what we would be willing to take you to New York and back for. But I don't want to get your hopes up. In order to give an $18 fare, we would have to file a special tariff with the Interstate Commerce Commission. If nobody objects, it will go through. But, if anyone objects, like the New York Central, then the ICC will have a hearing sometime next spring. But to show you that we want to do it, we'll file and see what happens."
The next day, he called me and said that he had told the Pennsy and the NYC about the plan to file a special tariff. The Pennsy had said they didn't care one way or the other. The NYC said they would object. But the GTW went ahead and filed anyway, to show good intentions. But, he said, with the NYC objecting there was no hope of the rate going through.
Well, we in the band were mighty unhappy over the NYC's attitude. If they didn't want to carry us at a reduced rate, that was their business; but we resented having our New York trip prevented by the NYC interfering with the Grand Trunk's special rate.
So we went to the school's authorities, and obtained permission to put some pressure on the New York Central.
In those days, Notre Dame did not allow its students to go away on weekends without parental permission. But each year, one official trip was sponsored to an away football game, on which all students could go without needing special permission. This year, 1935, the trip was to Columbus, Ohio, for the Ohio State game.
For this official student trip to Columbus, a special train had been arranged with the NYC, to load at the campus's powerhouse siding, running past St. Mary's College down to South Bend, then on to Columbus. At Columbus, NYC had trackage rights over Chesapeake & Ohio past the Ohio State stadium, so the Central could deliver us right to the stadium. One thousand students had signed up for the trip; New York Central's regular fare of about $10 was being charged.
I went down to the Pennsylvania Railroad ticket office in South Bend (the railroad had branchline service from South Bend to Plymouth and Logansport, on the old Vandalia route). I asked the agent how he would like to have 1000 passengers for his Saturday morning train to Logansport, to change there to the Pennsy's Chicago-Columbus train.
"Well, we would sure like to have 1000 passengers," he said, "But we would also like to have some notice, since we have only two coaches on that branch train."
I told him to make the arrangements, and that we would confirm the matter to him officially. We then notified the NYC that we were canceling the special train.
Now, the PRR didn't have tracks up to the Notre Dame campus. So we arranged for 20 streetcars to be at the campus at 6 a.m. Saturday. We piled on, and the streetcars went elephant-parade-style down to a point about a block from the PRR station. There, the Pennsy had a special train waiting for us, which they ran straight through to Columbus. Since the PRR didn't have trackage rights past the stadium at Columbus, we paraded 2 miles to the stadium.

A stirring game, and a Central change of heart

That was the year of the "Big Game." Our team was completely baffled by Ohio State's "razzle-dazzle" offense, which resembled a basketball game on the field; Notre Dame tackled everyone but the player with the ball, and Ohio State was ahead 13-0 in a few minutes.
In the second half, Notre Dame came back, scoring a touchdown in the last minutes of the third quarter, but missing the extra point to keep it at 13-6. We got another touchdown with three minutes to play in the fourth quarter, but again missed the extra point--13-12. Then, with 30 seconds left to play, Bill Shakespeare threw a 45-yard pass to Wayne Miller in the end zone to make it 18-13. Ohio State's fans were stunned; not a person moved in the stands for 20 minutes.
Meanwhile, we collected the iron-pipe goal posts and paraded victoriously the 2 miles back to the station. En route, we stopped at a service station and had the goal posts cut into smaller pieces, and we put the pieces on the tender of the Pennsy's engines to transport them back to South Bend.
Monday, I got a call from the Grand Trunk Western passenger agent. He had just had a visit from the New York Central passenger agent, who had wanted to know if the GTW was still interested in the $18 tariff to New York. The NYC was going to join the tariff. "Now," the GTW man said to me, "we realize that if the NYC also gives you an $18 rate, you will likely go New York Central. But the Grand Trunk wants you to know that we want to take you."
Monday afternoon, at band practice, the same high-and-mighty NYC passenger agent visited us. "Boys," he said, "we didn't realize that you took this so seriously. We're sorry, and we want to make amends. We're going to give you a special $18 round-trip rate to New York City for next weekend. If you tell us which train you want to go on, we'll have a couple of extra cars for you." We thanked him, and said we would let him know.
Then we had a meeting. We decided that since the Grand Trunk was good enough to give us the special rate in the first place, we'd go via the Grand Trunk.
I went to see the GTW agent, and told him of our decision.
"That's what we've been waiting for," he said. "We're going to show you boys that the New York Central isn't the only railroad in South Bend. We're not going to put two coaches on the Maple Leaf for you; we're going to run a special train, and limit you to 20 passengers per coach, so you'll all have a four-seater. And the train crews will show you how to take the backs and cushions off, so you can make bunks out of them. We'll put a Pullman on, at regular fares, for anyone who wants to travel Pullman. We'll have specially low-priced meals in the diner, so you can stay within your budget: 25 cents for breakfast, 35 cents for lunch, and 50 cents for dinner, with special printed commemorative menus. We'll have a passenger agent go all the way with you, and he will meet you after the game to decide what time you wi***o return.
"And," he added, "to show you that we can do anything the New York Central can, we'll match the running time of any New York Central train you wish, from the 20th Century Limited on down, even though we'll have to go 50 miles farther to get there."
We selected a 1 p.m. departure on Friday; on the next track, the NYC's Fifth Avenue Special was loading for its 12:50 p.m. departure to New York City. Some students not in the band were taking the Fifth Avenue. They laughed at us. "You'll get lost in Canada somewhere. We'll tell you how the game came out."
We beat them to New York City by 2 hours.
We left South Bend behind a Pacific type locomotive with a sealed baggage car containing our instruments, five or six coaches for the 100-member band, a diner, and a Pullman. Aboard the train were a passenger agent and the district trainmaster. Helping the engineer (a favorite way of putting it among engineers in those days) were the traveling engineer and the traveling fireman. During one 5-mile stretch, we timed the train by the mileposts and the brakeman's watch: 200 seconds for the 5 miles, or 90 mph. We made the 234 miles from South Bend to Port Huron, Mich., in 233 minutes, despite changing engines at Battle Creek, Mich., and taking water twice. We passed the Maple Leaf in a siding somewhere in Michigan.
GTW parent Canadian National took us across Ontario to Suspension Bridge, N.Y. CN didn't set any speed records, apparently not having expected us so soon. But at Suspension Bridge, a real rhubarb arose. The GTW diner had been taken off, I suppose at Port Huron. Now a Lehigh Valley diner was to be put on the rear of our train; Lehigh Valley was CN's connection for New York-area through service. The LV diner was over in the United States, while the rear of our train was still on the Canadian side of the bridge. Railroads paid a fee each time they used this bridge. Whose switcher was going to incur the wheel charge in order to put the diner on our train? Not the Lehigh's; and, just as positively, not the CN's.
Men from the two roads stood there arguing, and perhaps would be still be holding the train, except that the GTW passenger agent announced, "It's our train. We'll do the switching, and I'll take the responsibility." So the CN switcher ran over to the New York side, got the diner, brought it back, and tacked it onto the rear, and away we went.
We made the run from Suspension Bridge to Penn Station (LV's New York terminal, shared with PRR) in 8 hours flat. When we stopped on a curve in Mauch Chunk (now Jim Thorpe), Pa., the track was so superelevated that the dishes started to slide off the tables in the diner. Some years later, I told a Lehigh Valley conductor that we had made the run in 8 hours, and he flatly refused to believe me. But I was there.
Unfortunately, the football game was a tie.
Saturday afternoon, as promised, the GTW man met with us, and we decided on a 3 p.m. Sunday departure from Penn Station. As our train started climbing the hills of New York State, it got very cold. The first three cars were warm, but the rest of the train had no heat. The conductor repeatedly signaled the engineer for more steam in the heating line. At every stop there were acrimonious exchanges between the conductor and the engineer. The engineer insisted that he was sending back so much steam that any more would burst the fittings. Yet the train, after the third car, was so cold that the water in the Pullman was beginning to freeze.
When we stopped at London, Ontario, the car-knockers found what was wrong. The GTW coaches had an unusual arrangement for the steam line shutoff valves: the handles were located in the vestibules of the cars. One of the band members had wondered what those handles were for, and he'd turned one of them, on the leading platform of the fourth car. The LV crew was not familiar with the GTW valve arrangement, and they never thought to check the position of the handles.
Some more excitement during the evening came with the emergency stop out in the middle of nowhere. The conductor went forward to ask the engineer the reason for the stop. The engineer asked why he had been flagged down with a red lantern from the rear end. Again, it was a band member, who had picked up the flagman's red lantern on the rear platform, and waved the lantern from the side door to see what would happen.
Finally, early in the morning, we stopped at either Sarnia or Port Huron, where a lady from the depot's restaurant came out onto the platform ringing a hand bell, calling all train passengers to breakfast inside.
One of the boys picked up the hand bell, put it under his coat, and took it back to South Bend. Two days later, a half-hour before the 6 a.m. gong that woke all of us in Sorin Hall each morning, this wretched band member ran through the corridors, ringing that hand bell. That afternoon, Father Farley, the rector, summoned all the residents of the dormitory to a meeting. Father Farley told us--in the straightforward manner for which he was noted--that he would leave his office for 15 minutes. If that bell was not on his desk when he returned, no resident of Sorin Hall would be allowed to leave the campus until he graduated--if he graduated.
The bell was there when he returned, and the school returned it to the restaurant, with apologies.
From 1935 until 1942, when World War II ended such trips, the Notre Dame band went each year to New York City for the Army game, via the Grand Trunk Western and Lehigh Valley, for $18 round trip, each.
In 1956, when I returned to Notre Dame for my 20th reunion, I was talking with GTW's passenger agent in South Bend. He asked, "Do you know what you boys did with that trip? You broke the monopoly of the New York Central here. Ever since that trip, we have been able to give group rates to students, and they've gone along with us."
And that's the story of how a few college boys brought the mighty New York Central to its knees.

Grand Trunk Western reveals its reasoning

A few years after graduation, I was in Chicago, and visited the GTW-CN office on Michigan Avenue. I asked how, since the regular fare was $64 round trip, could the GTW afford to give us the $18 fare. I was told that the $18 covered only the wages and fuel. "We didn't charge anything for maintenance or other charges; but we figured we neither made nor lost anything on the train. And we figured it was a good opportunity to show 100 Notre Dame boys that we had a first-class railroad. We figured that perhaps at some time in the future, one of you might have a car of freight to route, and you might send it our way."
As it happens, I was employed for several years at Continental Can Company's New York office, and I had to route many shipments of machinery from suppliers in the East to our plants in the Midwest and West. Whenever it was feasible, I short-hauled the poor Erie at Buffalo, and routed the shipment via CN-GTW to Chicago or (by GTW carferry) to Milwaukee. For a while, I kept a list of the cars that I sent via GTW, it was up to 85 cars when I stopped keeping track. I don't know whether any other Notre Dame band members were ever in a position to route a car, but I think I paid GTW back for the 1935 train!

[From TRAINS December 2000. My thanks to Kalmbach for permission - Mike]

[nickinwestwales]

Well good morning gents-It`s bright & early at this end of the counter-well,early anyway !
Thought I`d better check that all is ready for the morning shift.
Coffee is fresh made,Tea on request,the Mentor Bakery pastries are due in any time now.
We have a couple of `Early Bird` specials to keep out the chill:-
Short stack with syrup & crispy bacon on the side,
Club sandwiches,
Leek & potato soup,
Full English (for the track gangs & anybody else on outside work )

Daily Wisdom:- The more I learn,the more I realise how little I know........

Well I shall be in and out today ( multi tasking in the modern parlance ) but Anne & Lucy have kindly agreed to spell me for the intervals,Cindy would normally be here but today is her Ju-Jitsu black belt exam,so naturally we could not ( dare not ) impose [^]
O.K-Things to do,back in a few hours-be nice to the girls or Boris will follow you home one night..........P.S-don`t feed the `dillo !!!
have a good one,nick[C=:-)]

[trolleyboy]

Evening gents. Just a late good noight before I head for the hills as it were.

Mike Great info on LIRR good stuff [tup] don't sweat the small stuff this time of year I don';t and I work in a store[:O]. The locals around here tend to blow more after dark as well, though most of thee trains near my house are a branch line switch operation that goes out and back two or three times a day.

Don They were 4-6-4T's thanks got the wheel arangement wrong. Those are/were the same loco's that ran in Montreal they headed your way right at the end of the steam era,they had already been bumped from the Montreal lines by diesels. I think the boys would love to see the picture if you can find them, they were an odd locomotive.

It is too bad about Elgin County. CN wants the track out and to sell the land so no fear I would think of them fixing that building. Since it's not a herritage building though some feel it should be, they should have no problems demoing it if that's their choice. The old Michigan Central station/frieght shed accross the way is covered by the hisoric stations act though so at least it should stay. It's truly truly sad but that museum hasn't got the million+ to buy and fix the building. One wants to think positive about it but I think the writing is on the wall.


Doug I [bow] to you for your writers cramp. Another fine article,you are going to give yourself carpel tunnel soon though be carefull. LOL Loved the PE RPO picture in that article BTW as well. You are also doing your best to keep the thread respectible. Good show [tup][tup]

Tom Got your email and have righted the wrong as it were. Leon a round for all those still standing lets try to get them all seated.[:D]

Rob

[Anonymous]

...and here's Part II

Sorting on the Road by Don Rohrer – Rail Classics Jan. 1984



Two hours later I glanced at my watch. We should have been farther down the line by this time, running through Camp McCoy. “Can you see where we are?” I called down to Podratz at the other end of the car. I had noticed him clear a space in the door window with a small ice scraper.

“We just went by Lake City,” he answered. “I’d better try the door,” Podratz said, but the action produced no result. The door was frozen solid, a common occurrence. Podratz kicked the door, futilely, before he removed an iron stanchion from an adjustable mail stall and used it to break away the ice from around the door. Using the stanchion as a lever, he pried the door open. Finally he poured salt on the tracks to keep them operable. By that time we should have been only a few minutes from Reads Landing, a non-stop.

Podratz adjusted his goggles and peered out the doorway until he spotted his landmark, a large grain elevator. He laid the Reads Landing pouch and sack of newspapers across his right foot, then, and at an exact moment kicked them out. He’d raised the car’s hairpin-shaped catcher arm at the same instant and a sharp whack indicated that he’d caught his incoming pouch. Mission accomplished. All in a day’s work.

“Still got your shoes?” Loney asked, in jocular reference to an occasion in which clerk Frank Hall had accidentally kicked off a shoe with the mail. Reacting quickly Hall had kicked out his other shoe, remarking laconically, "That way whoever finds ‘em will have a pair.”

As we approached Winona, earlier focal point of the storm, the sun came out and melted the frost from the windows, and we were able to catch glimpses of the passing scene. We began gaining on the clock then, hurtling through smaller towns that were either serviced by us non-stop, or accommodated by the milk trains. We moved on apiece, stopping only at Winona, La Crosse and Portage. At each junction we exchanged mails with other mobile units. Waiting for us at Potage was an especially hefty load from Madison, home of the state capitol and the university.

Concentration was required to cope with the job at hand, but there was an equal need for exchange of information. Questions and answers rang out continually. “What do we do with Des Moines now?” “Give me your Red Wing letters.” “Help! Help on the Manhattan letters!” “Check the balance sheet with me.”

We swept through Sparta, Tomah, and New Bisbon in record time. The road bed there was one of the best. Continuing the fast pace we rocketed through picturesque Wisconsin Dells, the Horicon Marsh bird sanctuary, and lake-blessed Oconomowoe, and on into Milwaukee. We picked up our mail there and rushed on.

On the way to Chicago we managed to complete our tasks, to tie and lock out our cases, and wash up and change clothes, just before arrival.

Our engine crews had performed nobly. We had lost only 18 minutes, still in time to make most of our connections, the Pennsy’s Broadway, the B&O’s Capitol Limited, and runs for the Cincinnati, St. Louis, Kansas City, and Detroit gateways. Our only miss was the Lakeshore, the New York Central’s Twentieth Century Limited.

Bright and early the next morning we would report back for work again, ready for the trip back, to “run for the barn.”



RPO, 1864-1977

The first Railway Post Office operated between Chicago and Clinton, Iowa on the Chicago and North Western beginning on August 28, 1864. Shortly after World War Two, there were 1,500 RPO routes criss-crossing the United States with 30,000 men working in more than 4,000 RPO cars. By 1961, the number of routes had declined to 262 and ten years later only eight routes remained. The decline of the RPOs began in the late 1930s but was delayed when railroad traffic increased through the war. The sharp decline occurred in the 1950s when railroads discontinued passenger trains at a great rate. The last surviving RPO was between Washington and New York and it was discontinued on June 30, 1977.

[Anonymous]

Good evening Leon ... I'll have a cherry co... I mean a boilermaker! And please set-up a round for the bar, and two rounds for anyone that may have heard my mistake!

We missed you Tom, but still you were around to post the Pullman and NY Central Nostalgia, as well as your index, and recognitions, and laying down the law, and ..hey ..you weren't really gone at all!

Al, terrific Streamliner # 26. The Zephyrs are one of my favorites!

Rob, thanks for the Niagra forntier line info, and great job keeping the place respectable during Tom's "absence."

CM3, happy pre-belated birthday

Don, thanks for your Christmas RR story. I was telling my wife today that I didn't have one to share yesterday, and then she proceeds to tell me one of her own! I'll just use hers next year! The train was a steamer, and they did New Years rides too! I need to check into this!

Mike, Thanks for the additional LIRR info. It's amazing how much the people around here know, or have experienced 1st hand.

My next submission is on the RPO (Railroad Post Office), and isn't one I'm too proud of. The subject matter is interesting, but the way it was told is not. But you be the judge. I included some pix to help it along. Here's Part I

Sorting on the Road by Don Rohrer – Rail Classics Jan. 1984



The last mail car has departed and the Railway Mail Service remains only in memory, as a bright and unique chapter of our railroad history.

The Post Office Department, perhaps purposely, failed to publicly recognize the mobile organization. To the vast majority of Americans the RMS was an unknown quantity. The average observer was inclined to fix the express messenger, baggageman and railway mail clerk into the same category.

Nevertheless, for a full century the RMS, with an interlocking system of trains and distribution expertise, provided the main trunk in delivering the mails before the advent of the zip code and the electronic sorting machine.

In spite of lack of recognition, the road clerks were a proud and productive group. Team work was essential to successful operation, and clerks responded with an amazing esprit de corps.

To best interpret RMS action, we wi***o take you for a ride with an R.P.O. crew on a fairly typical trip in 1966. With the RMS on its last wheels, we will occasionally refer back to more vital days in RMS annals.

St. Paul, Minnesota in the winter can serve up a first-class blizzard and biting, cold wind was sweeping through the Milwaukee Road yards one 5 a.m. As I walked out to the Chicago and Minneapolis mail car, part of the consist of the Twin City Hiawatha which was on track No. 11. The Hiawathas were still superb trains in 1966, sleek and streamlined flyers, bearing the Milwaukee Road’s traditional orange and maroon colors. The locomotives were powerful 3600 hp diesels. Inaugurated in the early ‘thirties, the original Hiawathas were quite spectacular, with locomotives patterned after Britain’s Flying Scotsman, sporting shrouded boilers and skirted wheels and consists of a dozen shining coaches, with distinctive beaver-tailed observation cars bringing up the rear.

With my sheepskin coat pulled up around my ears, I banged on the mail car door until Basil Loney flung it open. I was grateful to be able to climb into the welcome warmth of the “Minnie.” I exchanged greetings and observed the crew as I set my road-grip on the counter in front of my Illinois letter case and changed into my working clothes.

Five subs (substitutes) in a crew of fifteen. Not too encouraging. It was reassuring, however to see Old Wall Erickson at the pouch case, the core of our operation. A good performance there was essential to a successful trip. Incidentally, our organization included another capable Wallace Erickson, dubbed Young Wall.

The pouch and paper racks had already been set up and labeled, and headers and slips run in the letter cases, by the time the mail handlers arrived with the first load of pouches and sacks. A freezing blast of cold air and snow swept through the car when Norm Podratz, the paper case man, opened the door. Old Wall helped him take in the mail, while I checked off the pouches as they were called. The rest of the crew formed a chain gang and relayed the pouches and sacks up or down the aisle to their assigned stalls. The #1 and #2 mails close by for first attention, and the #3 – for distant states – farther down the 90-foot car, to be worked later.

Our immediate task was to “get the jump on it” in the yards. To “clean up” the mails, to avoid “going stuck,” was the primary goal of the railway mail crews. If there were unworked mail at the end of the trip, the boss would be forced to come up with a reason. One of the few acceptable excuses was “sub in crew.” These poor subs really earned their stripes!

There existed within the ranks an esprit de corps of the kind needed for swift, sustained and cooperative action.

The clerks were required also to devote much time between trips to the study of schemes and schedules. An example of the knowledge needed, Platteville, Wisconsin, alone had eight different supplies, depending on our location on the line.

I put substitute *** Kelly dumping pouches. He was a new hand, and knew very little about distribution. Basil Loney picked up the first bundles of letters to hit the table and returned quickly to his “hot” local letter case. Other clerks continued to assist at the pouch and paper tables, tossing directs, and mail for connecting RPO lines, into their respective pouches and sacks, until their own stated working packages arrived.

Harry Anderson, the registery clerk, had caught up on his mixed letters, and as no “reds” had arrived as yet, prepared coffee. Mail lock coffee it was called; when it was think enough to float a mail lock it was considered satisfactory.

The Great Northern and the Northern Pacific trains, due from the west coast with our heaviest deliveries, had been delayed by the storm and had not yet arrived. However, we had taken on extra loads from earlier trains that had missed their regular connections. Shortly after 8 a.m. our “drop” load arrived – and we were ready to take off. Our train was hardly ever held back, for we were geared to important connections in Chicago.

At 8:15 a.m. we felt our big road engines hook on, directly ahead, but we failed to hear the rattle of closing couplings and suspected that something was awry. We tried to peer out the windows, but they were completely frosted over. We were a world unto ourselves, in the center of an icy gale.

“Better sit down,” Ron Kiel cautioned. “We’re frozen to the rails.” The engineer had to jump the cars several times before breaking them loose. If we had tried to remain standing we would have been knocked to the floor.

We didn’t highball out of the yards as usual and our pace was greatly modified on the curving stretch down the river. Since we were up on the local mails, we sat down to cold sandwiches and hot coffee.

I noticed Kelly nodding over his food. He had been dumping and closing pouches since starting work, and he was bushed. “Take over for ***, will you, Tiny?” I asked giant Art Sederholm. To Kelly I said, “Take out the directs on Tiny’s case. He’ll work the residue later.”

Besides me Bill Pinette muttered, “In the old days we had wooden cars and iron men instead of iron cars and wooden men.” That joke too was an oldie.

[B)] Hmmmm ...is this interesting yet? [B)]

[jdonald]

Evenin Tom: good to see you back. I'll have another A.K. and one for yourself

Rob Thats bad news about the Museum in St. Thomas. We rode on their Thanksgiving Fall Colours train and the crew seemed a little uncertain at that time about any future operations. Maybe CN will come good for the repairs[;)]. On the subject of tank engines-CN had some 4-6-4T's -#48 was a regular on the local trains between London and Sarnia in 55 &56 . Have a b&w photo which I might try posting on the Sunday post.

Bye for now-Keep it on the rails

Don

[siberianmo]

Just a word or two before turning the bar over to Leon the Night Man!

Hey Mike don't let the small stuff get to ya! This "thing" we had yesterday was more about bringing back memories of past Christmas travel by rail. It evolved in some diverget directions - but had nothing to do with this upcoming merriment! Chill, man, chill! [swg]

And yes, for the price of a round for the guys at the bar - I'll "award" you those "3 points" you mentioned! <grin>

I always find it to be amazing just how much info we pick up 'round here from the stories Posted by the guys.The Posts come fast and furious these days, making some of this great stuff perishable, to say the least. That's kinda why I thought those Indexes were valuable assets.

Okay - 'nuf for me. Gotta get goin' - a long day tomorrow and I'm not sure that I'll "see" any of you 'til Thursday mornin' ...... after I get the daily Summary out, that is.

Ring the bell, Boris a round on the house - Leon give 'em what they want!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[wanswheel]

Hi Tom and everyone. I'm not too organized so let me just just post something quick. I lost a bunch of typing Christmas stuff yesterday because I forgot to log in, got fed up and shut off the computer and walked away. Give me 3 points for the "try." It's too early for Christmas yet anyway. Happy Kilometer on the 2/3 milestone yesterday.

I never knew about that Pickle factory crash, and I live 4 blocks from an LIRR grade crossing. That 1950 crash came just 9 months after a head-on collision killed 34 at Rockville Center, Long Island. The Pennsylvania owed the LIRR but refused to support it, let it operate in bankruptcy. As a monopoly the LIRR was severely pressed for cash because the state utilities commission wouldn't allow rate increases. After the second cra***he PRR invested a few bucks to upgrade the LIRR for safety. The MTA runs it now, along with the city subways and Metro North commuter trains.
In its day the Long Island Rail Road (2 words) was the first to install a steam whistle on a locomotive (1836), first to use an all-steel passenger car (1905) and the first to run a Diesel loco in passenger service (1926). It is the oldest Class 1 railroad still operating under its original name and charter (1834).
On the issue of safety I notice the whistle. In the daytime the traffic around here is heavy and relentless. Because of that, the engineer can be confident that if he sees no cars at the grade crossing it almost certainly means that the signals are working, the gates are down and all motorists have yielded and wait patiently (or impatiently) for his train to get out of their way. So he just gives them a few polite short toots, almost apologetic in tone. After midnight, however, when there is still some road traffic (24-7 in modern suburbia) but substantially less, he blasts that whistle long and loud.

[siberianmo]

Evenin’ Guys!

Straight to the acknowledgments, Part Deux, however, due to time constraints, I’ll restrict my comments to a couple of lines to each. If I’ve missed something – ask again!

Theodorebear Ted
Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 08:56:39

QUOTE: Let's all begin our last one third of the road to the First Anniversary of "Our" Place with sharing "inclusively" between all of our esteemed Members.[tup] That's the style. [:D]

Couldn’t have said it better. Let’s take this to heart and follow our Manager!
[tup][tup][tup]

trolleyboy Rob
Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 09:34:07, 12:23:54, 13:50:22, 14:32:05, 16:49:23

I don’t know how to do all of your Posts justice. Therefore, let me simply put it this way: THANX, Rob for doing an outstanding job today! [tup][tup][tup] The Bar Chandler of ”Our” Place came through once again! [swg]

coalminer3 CM3
Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 13:19:57

QUOTE: Since my birthday occurs during the holidays, maybe we can have a "belated" celebration after the first of the year. It will give me time to raise bail mone, enroll in a witness protection program, and get Boris out from under that loaded tank car.

Fair enough – just let us know with at least 2 weeks notice. It takes that much time to line everything up ‘round here! [tup]

jdonald
Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 15:17:59

Glad you made it back! Fixed those Gremlins, eh [?] Christmas story appreciated! [tup]

pwolfe Pete
Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 15:57:10

QUOTE: Thanks for the N.Y.C Ad. I can’t imagine a Railroad company today doing an Ad in rhyme.

My pleasure! Different strokes for different folks. Those ads from the 40s and 50s surely represented a far different way of life than we are into today. They are enjoyable to reflect on, though.


Thanks to all who bought drinks, helped with the duties around here. Don’t get spoiled with that great bill of fare in the kitchen this mornin’ – we’ll be back to <light> breakfasts later in the week! [swg]


Later (maybe)!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

For: trolleyboy Rob

Please check your Email.

Thanx!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[trolleyboy]

Good evening everyone. Ah I see that the boss is back so I can take my leave for now.

Don Nice holiday item their. I hear that on many occations similar tank cars would spring untimely leaks. Rust don't yah know.[;)]. glas that you liked the CN bits,nice to know that they are appreciated. I look forward to your CN/Wabash Pictures from St Thomas,wonderfull railway town. Speaking of which have you heard about the plight of the Elgin County Railway Museum there,seems the main roof support beam on the old Canada Southern shops that house them are shot. CN still owns thebuilding so as of Dec 1st no one public or member are allowed in the building,until it's fixed. Personally I don't think it will happen and they will need to find a new home.

Yup I was holding down the bar looking over Cindy's shoulder. A tough job I nust say[;)]
I'm not one for the political correctness either,why is it that we can behave/say something one way for most of our lives and suddenly we are wrong and dinosaurlike.[soapbox] Just my [2c] of venting, I'm better now.[tup]




Pete Of coarse there is some steak and eggs left. I figured that you would want some so I had the girls hold some for you.

Seems that the speacial switching duties were similar on your side as here. CNR did have --6-o and 0-8-0 strait switch engines but they were used much like diesel switchers. Thye drilled the yards and made up and broke up trains. The only road time they got was if they were headed to the Big Shop in Stratford for maintenance and at that they were usually hauled dead in the trains consist. I haven't much experiance woth tank type engines CNR and CPR just didn't have them. The only exception were a set of GTW 0-10-o tanks used in the Sarnia tunnel before it was electrified and a half dozen 10 wheeled tank engines CNR had in Montreal for commuter train service.

Tom Nice to have you back, I was happy to fill your shoes as it were, Boris and everyone else were on their best behaviour. Boris even shaved and bathed without being asked. Between you and me he like most other males here just has a thing for Cindy. [:O]

Rob

[siberianmo]

Gentlemen of the bar, I have returned!

Thanx Cindy for the bartending services - I have a feelling the guys weren't at all upset about my being gone! [swg]

Rob Thanx very much for fillilng in - "you done good" Sir! Nice to know that we have a strong nucleus to depend upon. Same to all who Posted throughout the day - I will get to the acknowledgments a bit later on.

There is something that requires a bit of attention and I want to get to it straight away:

This is NOT a coffee shop, sweet shop or hang out for the under age. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but that's the reality. We are an adult bar and grill - a place where people can legally imbibe in the beverages of their choice all the while discussing Classic Trains from a position of knowledge and experience, and of course have some fun while doing so.

If one is of legal age to be served in a bar from wherever that person resides, then one can certainly be expected to be "served" here. We use the personal profiles to give us an idea of "who" the person is. If the personal profile is vague or otherwise insufficent, I reserve the right to not serve that person - in other words, ignore the Post.

It really is quite simple you see, we are adults with a common tie, the experience of traveling aboard and knowledge of Classic Trains not from anecdotal stuff, but from upfront experience, including those who work in restoring vintage RR equipment.

It would be far better for the underaged to simply read through what we have to say than to try and become a customer at the bar. Sorry, just won't work. Teen age sites abound on these Forums, and this isn't one of those. Adult needs no further defining. And by the way, you'll get there soon enough! Don't rush it. [swg]

For: uspscsx Matt - Sorry, Mate - we don't serve Cherry Cokes in this place.

Some advice may be in order: There is no way in the world that you or anyone else who has never frequented a real adult bar and grill would know how to handle one's self simply by "winging it" here in cyber space. It just doesn't work that way. Sorry, Matt. I don't think this place is for you or your under age friends. Feel free to send me an Email if you wi***o pursue this line of dialogue further.

For example, your question about whether we still are on "Christmas items" could have been handled quite simply by reading through the Posts. There are no easy, bottom liners here. One either participates or one doesn't. The latter category never become regulars.

Later!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all

Hi Rob have you got the bar at the moment? Can I have a pint of Bathams and are there any Steak and Eggs left. I'll have a Bathams XXX for after the steak( this is a season ale which is quite to find but NICK as managed to ship some over)[tup]

[wow] What a great day of posts yesterday.

Nick Thanks for the photo captions. I have great fun trying to guess the locations of the U,K. pics before you let us know where they were taken. The Gwili always catches me out, its been many years since I have been to it.
I dont envy you being stuck at Birmingham New St. At least when you done the trip there were overnight trains with seating accomadation. there was even one that ran from Bristol to Milford Haven with a passenger car attached to the mail vans.

DAN thanks for the insight on the Santas from a operaters view. When my friend's lads were young a trip to see Santa on one of the local preserved lines in the U.K was one of their highlights of the year for them.

JOHN Excuse my ignorance but what is USNS. I thought the U.S navy ships were USS[?].

DOUG Thanks for parts 2 & 3 of the Great Pickleworks Wreak. The photos of the locos involved were much appriciated for me who is not familiar with N. American locos
[tup]. The model looks great on the shelf at Our Place.[^].

AL Great Christmas story and the info on the Denver Zephers.

TED Great post hope H&H are not giving you too much bother. Well said about TOM[tup].

ROB Thanks for the CNR Special Frieghts. Reading it brought to mind a another piece of Railroading that as almost vanished, at least in the U.K., that of the Staton Pilot. The switcher(?) that was always busy around the station attaching and removing cars and vans from trains Usually an 0-6-0 tank loco in steam days. On the L.M.S. lines this duty was preformed a class of small 0-6-0 tank locos known as Jintys. Very similar in appearence to Thomas the Tank Engine.

TOM Thanks for the N.Y.C Ad. I can,t imagine a Railroad company today doing an Ad in rhyme. PETE>

[Anonymous]

Good day, bartend and all! How about a Cherry Coke?

I would have shared a Christmas story of my own...if it weren't for the fact that I haven't been a railfan forever, as my newly-updated profile states.

Matthew, good to see you stopping in!

Doug, I really enjoyed that series on the wreck. That really is creepy that it happened on Friday the 13th! Encore, encore!

Rob, I've been enjoying your segments as well.

Since I'm fairly new to the place, are we still on Christmas items, or is it "free-for-all," if you catch my drift...

I believe that is all.

Have a great day.

[jdonald]

Good afternoon all: If I read things correctly Cindy is behind the bar and Rob is looking over her shoulder[:p] I'll have an Alexander Keith and a round for the house.
My Anti Virus Prog. has been replaced and my wallet lightened[:(]

Sheesh-just be away for a day there is so much to read
Doug nice series on the Great Pickleworks Wreck . Spooky that it happend on Friday the 13th

John I'm with you on political correctness. How has "Merry Christmas" been modified into "Happy Holidays"[?][:(!]

Rob enjoying the latest CN steam. Regarding St Thomas and the Wabash, I have a couple of pics maybe for the next Sunday Picture Show

As for Christmas(not "Holiday")memories: This happened in the week before Christmas 1955 or1956. I was finally allowed to ride my bike down to the local station(Sarnia) and had ridden out to the crossing where the Plank Road crossed the CNR tracks. This crossing was just at the throat of the west yard and had 5 or 6 tracks-very busy what with switching moves, passenger trains and freight locos backing down to their trains. The crossing was protected by gates that were operated by the gateman in a wooden tower. After standing at the bottom of the tower steps and getting frozen, the operator invited me up into the tower to get warmed up by the coal stove. We chatted about trains for a while and I noticed quite a bit of activity on the ground in the parts of the yard I could see from the tower. Several yardmen could be seen heading for the far side of the yard with pails and anything else that would hold liquid. The operator finally yelled at one of them to ask what was going on. Apparently a tank car of spirits of some kind has mysteriously sprung a leak and everyone was helping themselves! With a twinkle in his eye the operator asked me if I wanted to watch the gates while he took his bucket and filled it. He wasn't serious of course but I was ready operate those gates! Wish now that I had taken a picture of that tower-oh well.

Bye for now-Keep it on the rails

[trolleyboy]

Here's another CN Steam recollection.

Classic CNR Steam # 10 CNR speacial Frights Part 2

Merriton Switcher

Niagara Falls - Merriton,later known as the Niagara Falls-Merriton Road switcher. Night assignment through 1952,became evening assignment during the first half of 1953. Normally ran as a caboose hop to Merriton.Switched cars off the NS&T transfer ( CN trains used front tracks of station. Thje NS&T passenger cars off the interurban district loaded behind the station and they owned the yard. Station was a standard GT type two located right in the Grimsby sub mainline,sane type as Museumm's rockwood statton. Merriton station burnt down in 1998).This train then lined up cars for road trains 464 and 461. After the last NS&T job arrived and the transfer was clear, the switcher switched out any set offs and placed them in the yard for the NS&T's specific customers. Untill spring of 1954, the switcher waited for an express car off #84,then helped 461 make a set off.Niagara Falls bound cars were put onto train 461 to allieviate the beed for a pilot on the switcher. Switcher followed 461 into Niagara Falls as a caboose hop. After the spring of 1954 the Merriton switcher began returning to the falls at midnight, powered by Consolidations until deisilization.

Pilot Assignments

Operated between Niagara Falls , Merriton , and Thorold. Typically a morning and afternoon assignment.Most often a heavy Mikado assigned to Niagara falls,but any available power laying over from other assignments could be used. This was a helper for the Thorold sub hill that climbed the escarpment by lock 7 of the Welland canal. 2-3.5% grade worst in S Ontario.

Toronto-St Catharines Fruit Extras

Less-than-carload express pickup train,operated in season.Engine several "blowers" and/pr express refridgerator cars and rider coach left Toronto in the morning.Empty cars were left at points along the Grimsby subdivision. Lifted carload traffic as well.Fruit was destined for Toronto and beyond. Normal power was a light Pacific through 1655 season. SW1200RS took over after1956 no coach at this point.

Hamiltin-St Catharines Fruit Extras

Operated Hamilton-Mimico via St Catharines during the peak fruit season,this train ran almost daily. Ordered for early afternoon out of Hamilton as a caboose hop,tender first! ( occationally empties were set off but not often )Proceeded to Jordan,St Catharines,or Merriton as ordered. Lifted loaded express refridgerator cars of fruit all the way to Winnona.Whenever possible,the dispatcher issued a work order for both tracks.Once off the Grimsby sub,train highballed to Mimico,with the exception of a stop at the canal on the Beach sub( Burlington Bay ). At Mimico, a new engine and caboose took over the train,which wasted little time in proceeding to Montreal.Usually powered by a light Pacific ( occationally a Mogul or Consolidation ) all engines assigned to Hamilton. Northerns or better took over at Mimico. Train was dieselized in 1958.

Enjoy Rob

[trolleyboy]

Good afternoon again everyone. I see that we have had a couple of paying customers by. Alway's a good thing [tup]

CM3 The canadain brass is a personal favourite of mine,I've been luckey to catch a couple of live concerts of thiers over the years. Last time I saw them for real was in dec of 1993 at the Shaw festival theater in Niagara- on- the- Lake. Doubley meaningful concert in that it was the last Christmas we had with my Grandmother who had lived with myself and my parents for a good twenty years. My Grandfather ( passed away in 1963 so I never met him ) ws a Salvation army band leader so needless to say Gran loved a good brass band and the Canadian Brass were/are still one of the best around.[tup]

I can understand how that train trip was one from **ll. Could not have been a pleasant ride,thankfully it wasn't a longer trip,though I'm sure that it's length felt like an eternity.Nice to have friends that let you enjoy the treasures of your youth.Also nice to still have that classic stuff,many people gave away such treasures when they growed up only to discover what they missed many years later.

Hope that "speacial" coffee warmed you up. Were you brave enough to try the buffet ?

Matt Certainly this is a bar ,so at your tender age, it will certainly force you to be chaperoned. One word on this thread is that we do tend to stay rather on topic, with a bit of humour thrown in. My suggestion is that if you read through several pages and see what we are about. If you think that you can talk the clasics and respond in kind to everyone else here, and thier offerings ( no run by posts ) which is something we do try to do then stop back tomorrow when the boss's back,I'm sure that we can find a spot for you.[tup]

Rob

[trainboyH16-44]

May I come in to the Adult environment?
I'm Matthew, 16, you may know me from my other posts. Nothing like a good pot of TEA in the morning to get you going, eh?

[coalminer3]

Good Afternoon Barkeep and All, coffee please with a, little of the good stuff to take the "edge" off as I just got in from the outside (8 degrees when we started this a.m.), a round for the house, and $ for the jukebox - how abt. some Christmas selections by the Canadian Brass for today.

I just finished reading all of the posts and all I can say is, excellent - everyone "done good." The NYC and Pullman ads brought back so many memories.

Nick, I think we have all had holiday trips to the "dark side." One I remember is riding coach (with my future ex-wife) on a New Haven train (I can't remember the name right now). There was a woman seated in front of us with a paper bag in each hand. She took alternate pulls on the bottle in each bag and sang the chorus to "Make the World Go Away" over and over again from South Station to GCT. We helped her off the train in NY, and, ever since, I have not liked that tune.

I appreciate the kind words re my postings yesterday. I don't know how it was with you folks out there that had Lionel or Flyer trains, but I was always on the lookout for orange and blue boxes under the tree. I still have a lot of the Lionel stuff from that era, and have a friend here who graciously allows me to run it now and then. Pride of the fleet is a 6464-sewries 'State of Maine" car alogn with a Rutland boxcar and a PRR car which still has the freight handler inside. He pops out when the car door is opened remotely.

Since my birthday occurs during the holidays, maybe we can have a "belated" celebration after the first of the year. It will give me time to raise bail mone, enroll in a witness protection program, and get Boris out from under that loaded tank car.

work safe

[trolleyboy]

My goodness the afternoon has slowed up a tad. No matter H&H have switched over to the afternoon Bavarien buffet,various ***'s,worst's, and snitzeles. Cn and CP track gangs are happy and so is the rail management since the by-products can be used to cut down on diesel costs. [:D][swg][:O][xx(]. This is of coarse a true case of when the boss is away the peons play.[tup[[swg]

Right who wants what. I'm sure Ted and sir Nick will appreciate the breezy greasy spoon atmosphere that we have gone for this afternoon.[swg][:O]

A tibit for the valt to keep us on topic as it were. Yes Boris you can wring a round. Cloink , bwooong gwoong bwooong. Boris {alien] moron leave the gold perch where it belongs <sheesh>

Anyhow to the tidbit/
CNR Classic Steam #9 Speacial Steam Frieghts on the Niagara Frontier

Thorrold Switchers

Niagara Falls to Thorold and return same day. Originally one morning assignment. Between sept 30,1945,and april 28, 1946 a second switcher was added. Both ran in the mornings,several hours appart. Circa oct 28 1957 this was cut to a single train during the navigation season. Main task was to serve the Ontario Paper company at lock 7 of the Welland Canal. train would also interchange traffic with the NS&T's electric frieght division in Thorold and Merriton.Heaveu Consolidation main locomotive of choice.


The St Thomas Way Freight

Circa april of 1940 , switching extras that left Fort Erie Tues, Thurs,& sat, for Jarvis and return.Re-classed as a way frieght in april of 1945.Frequency doubled and the territory was expanded to St Thomas so train began leaving Ft Erie M,W,Fri and leavung St Thomas Tues,thurs,& Sat. This assignment was handled by a 1600 series wabash class J2 Pacific. In the 50's 1951 on Wabash SW8's 122-127 handled this run.The train carried a CNR caboose and was jointly operated,CNR and Wabash alternated crewing this train every six months.Effective 1953 Wabash with drew their crews for the local swtiching on the St Thomas division in favour of all CNR crews. Served all local industries. CNR operated train with heavy consolidations until dieselized in 1957 wwith SW1200RS's and GP7's.

Welland way freight

Niagara Fall's to Welland way freight or switcher,returnung the same day. Became known as a way frieght in april of 1945. A joint CNR/Wabash service ( ie CN could handle the Wabash cars ), although this was infrequent as the line handled very little Waba***raffic. Main jop was to service the Cyanamid plant in Port Robinson. Train only operated as far as Port Robinson after 1959. Consolidations in the 2300/2400 series were the power of choice,dieselized after 1958 by SW1200RS's and GP7's.

Enjoy more later.

Rob








's

[trolleyboy]

Good morning everyone. Wow quite busy this morning , which is a good thing.[tup] I have brought in Hilda and helga to help out , so unlike most AM's we will be serving a more full bodied [:D] breakfast. 5 egg omelets whhite's only available for those needing to still fit into their overalls. Steack and eggs a full continental platter from the bakery, eggs benedict and Boris Carpathian egg supprise ( overly spicey and greesy, good for use as axle grease on a locamotive though ) This will be served all day long or until Boris annoys H&H to the point that they head home on the Zepplin.

First off Ton ,Ted , BK , CM3 ,& Doug Wonderfull buits yesteryday, I was unable to participate because of a need to sleep ( the mixed midnights+dayshifts are taking their toll on me I'm affraid,but I'm awake today )

Tom Above and beyond yesterday I would say,nice pullman and other posts truly good stuff. You guys undeed done good . Happy belated aniversary BTW,like Te dI'm looking forward to the year aniversary.
S-capades looks wonderfull and the new busses are the cats caboose [tup]

Nick Great pictures as per usual, looking forward to May hope you make it. ! you and I and Tom have a few blues with our names on them for sure for sure !

John Nice comfey looking ship,not sure that I would be wanting to ride on top of all that stuff that can go bang but good looking ship anyway. In '96 Only four of the Halifax class would have been in service. Halifax, Montreal,Toronto,& Vancouver. Ville de Quebec and Calgary may have been on running trials. Nice little tradition we have eh! You can thank the senior service ie the RN. The RCN still follows British practice in as far as the bars go ( It is regulated though if your drunk you tend to not be on the ships for long )

Most of the pictures I post are 35mm that i've scanned via the flatbed scanner, I've yet to buy a digital yet as well.Ouch on the cell bills. We find a pay as you go is the best method forces only emergency use. Not sure if that method is available in the US but here you buy a prepaid card $10 or $25, and load it on your account,once the time runs out you buy a new card,you can't run overtime unless it's a 911 call which is free anyway. Worth a look.

Al Been in with a streamliner already good stuff,what can I get you for breakfast. Must pay the bills and all !

Doug Great story tragic but a good piece. Keep em comming [tup]

Nick Thought you would like that OSR paint scheme. taken from the TH&B. Maroon and cream. That fall shot of 2786 was made into a T-shirt way back when. Some years the colours are absolutly increadible on our mainline,this year was qyuite good,late starting and of short duration but lots of firey reds and oranges. Your pictures weren't too bad either my friend.

Ted You old sea dog you glad that you are the earlier riser of the two of us.[tup] Thanks for catching this mornin's early people. H&H say they have something speacial for you. For some reason Cindy is winking as well. I'm not sure that thats a good sign or not. [:O][swg]

Tom . I know that Cindy is yours but the girl just seems to like to share and she has so much[:X][:I][;)] to give. ( knits very nice sweaters, you should see the darling sweater scarf combination she made for Tex to keep him warm ) Such a thoughtfull girl.[;)][:D]

Catch everyone later,remember order anything but the Carpathian supprise unless that is that you have a cast iron stomache.

Rob

[Anonymous]

Good morning Cindy and all of you dawn gazers. Think I'll endulge in a nice hot Irish Coffee this chilly A.M. I need something to get "kick started." Tom started the day off for us with the Summaries and another fine Nostalgia piece on the N.Y.C.[^] Nick's Post also greeted the morning (due to the time difference) and described a holiday odyssey of Homeric proportions. There are only two sorts of people who would embark on such an adventure: Ulysses or a "out-of-pocket" college student. True to form, Nick does not dissapoint. He offers us an ending befitting any great Greek Tragedy.[:(] Barndad Doug decided to relieve of us of our "nail biting" apprehensions by posting the 2nd and 3rd (final) series on Ron Ziel's "The Great Pickle Works Wreck." What an ignominious fate for the top "varnish" on the L.I.R.R.'s "Shelter Island Express."[:O] Just as Nick's tale displayed a multi layered aura of morality; so does Ziel's account of the resulting "cover up" by the L.I. R.R. Funny how "the more things change, the more they stay the same," isn't it? I hope I'm not "out of order" if I applaud out loud at this point.[:D]

In line with being "out of order," may I risk passing on a personal thought now while Tom is away temporarily? Here is a fellow who has unfailingly taken untold time and tireless effort to put together something we all have come to enjoy as a unique refuge from any other threads in Kalmbachdom. Isn't it only common courtesy for each and every one of us to show a bare minimum of gratitude by reading the summaries, checking the events rosters and acknowledging, not only his efforts, but those of our fellow Members? So how much extra time does it take? Let's all begin our last one third of the road to the First Anniversary of "Our" Place with sharing "inclusively" between all of our esteemed Members.[tup] That's the style.[:D]

Rob and I will be "standing in" as frequently as possible for monitoring and continuity in Tom's absence. No, it won't be the same but with your participation, it can still be a lot of fun.[^] We are all hoping to see westcoast S Dave soon and, of course Don, Mike and John with their always meanigful input and humo(u)r. Hey, the last few days have "been a ball" for me and I hope for all of you as well. So, "keep those cards and letters comin in" gents and know they are all valued and appreciated.[:D] Okay Boris, a round on me and BONG.....you could've waited 'til I moved my head away from "Old 99" first, couldn't you?[:(!] See ya's soon.

[siberianmo]

Good Morning Gents!

Just a word or two before I depart for the day .... so many Posts since I checked out last evening, unbelievable activity 'round here. Ka-ching, ka-ching - gotta pay for those special events that "Our" Place is known for! Speaking of which - coalminer3 CM3 we are still waiting for the date and time for YOUR Birthday Bash!!

I see that nickinwestwales Nick - passengerfan Al - earlydiesels Dan & Theordorebear Ted stopped by after I departed last evening. While I haven't got the time to fully address what you Posted - thanx for thinking about us once again! It really was quite an 8th Month Anniversary wasn't it [?] Those Christmas season RR related stories and ads fit in quite well ... [tup][tup][tup] to all who participated! [swg]

For this morning's Posts - well, again - acknowledgments to barndad Doug - jlampke John - ftwNSengineer P and passengerfan Al. Great way to start off a new day! Lots of good stuff once again. [tup][tup][tup]

John Sunday's are for the posting of pix - we are closed and urge those with long winded Posts to save 'em up for Monday or a day when we have our customers on board. Just not the day for "business as usual." It's fine to stop by and slip a Post through the door if it is relevant to the pix or whatever else may be going on. But replies and the like - nope. That's why some made reference to the inapppriateness "thing."

P Nice new look! We're going to need sun glasses if this keeps up! [swg] Hope to hear some comments from you about what you've missed, once you have time to catch up on the reading. [tup]

barndad Doug & passengerfan Al Good sumissions and something to look forward to for reading - in the "library annex" of the Rat's Patoot Room! of course! [swg]

CINDY has the bar until my return!

Later!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Tom and the rest of the regulars. Time for a quick cup of Coffee and a diet pastry from the Mentor Bakery.

Nick Just wanted to say how much I enjoyed your Sunday Pix especially the CN turbo brings back many fond memories.

Almost tax season and if early inquiries are indicators it's going to be the busiest ever. Don't know how often I will be able to join the group between January and April 15, 2006 but will just have to see how it goes. Government made very few changes between 2004 and 2005 taxes.

PASSENGERFAN AL'S STREAMLINER CORNER #26

DENVER ZEPHYRS CB&Q trains 1-2 November 7, 1936 Denver - Chicago overnight each direction 1,034 miles 15 hours 30 minutes.

The Burlington Railroads answer to the Union Pacific CITY OF DENVER trains the new streamlined Budd built stainless steel DENVER ZEPHYRS entered scheduled service November 7, 1936.

These trains represented the first CB&Q Shovelnose ZEPHYRS in which the power was not articulated to the rest of the trailing consist. These were the first and only Shovelnose Diesels to have a booster unit built for operation with them. The Shovelnose A-units had a pair of 900 HP Winton 201 diesels developing a total of 1,800 HP and the trailing Booster or B-units had a single 1,200 HP Winton 201-A diesel giving each ten car consist a total of 3,000 HP each.

The DENVER ZEPHYRS were the first Burlington ZEPHYRS in which the power and all cars featured SILVER prefix names something that would become synonymous with the CB&Q almost a trademark as it were.

The new DENVER ZEPHYRS replaced the three car ADVANCED DENVER ZEPHYRS on a fast 15 hour 30 minute overnight schedule between Chicago and Denver in either direction.

The new ten car DENVER ZEPHYRS provided Coach seating, Sleeping Car space and Parlor Car seating , this was quite unusual for a train to provide both Sleeping Car space and parlor car seating in the same train. The Parlor seating was sold between Denver and Omaha eastbound and Chicago and Lincoln westbound.

The new DENVER ZEPHYRS were sold out almost from the beginning and in May 1938 a new 64 revenue seat coach 16-seat dinette seat car was added to each consist to increase coach capacity. These cars were 4852 SILVER BEAM added to one consist and 4853 SILVER BELL added to the other consist. The addition of the additional coach brought each DENVER ZEPHYR to eleven cars.

In April 1939 Budd delivered a pair of Sleeping cars with 4-Roomettes 4-Chambrettes 1-Drawing Room 1-Compartment and 4-Double Bedrooms to the CB&Q for assignment to the DENVER ZEPHYRS one for each consist. These two cars were 445 SILVER SLIPPER added to one consist and 446 SILVER MOON added to the other DENVER ZEPHYR consist. With the addition of these sleeping cars the DENVER ZEPHYRS were now twelve car consists and the original diesels with 3,000 Hp total were sufficient to maintain the hot schedule.

As the CB&Q began receiving the A-B sets of EMD E5 diesels they were assigned in A-B sets to replace the shovelnose pairs built originally for the DENVER ZEPHYRS. This gave each consist 4,000 HP instead of the 3,000 HP.

Other than a refurbishing of the interiors that the two DENVER ZEPHYR train sets underwent in 1948 and 1949 they remained on the Chicago -Denver route until October 27, 1956. On the following day October 28, 1956 the 1936 DENVER ZEPHYRS were replaced by in Chicago - Denver service with new VISTA DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS. At that time the original DENVER ZEPHYRS were leased to CB&Q subsidiary C&S for operation as the TEXAS ZEPHYRS between Denver and Dallas. In June 1957 the two train sets were transferred to C&S ownership and continued in TEXAS ZEPHYR service.

CONSIST ONE

9906A SILVER KING 1,800 HP Shovelnose Diesel Cab Unit

9906B SILVER QUEEN 1,200 HP Diesel Passenger Booster Unit

950 SILVER COURIER Auxiliary Power 30'Railway Post Office Baggage Car

980 SILVER LINING Baggage 12-Crew Dormitory Bar 36-Seat Lounge Car

4631SILVER CITY Articulated 64-Revenue Seat Coach
4632 SILVER LAKE Articulated 38-Revenue Seat Coach
152 SILVER GRILL Articulated Kitchen 40-Seat Dining Car

410 SILVER STATE Articulated 12-Section Sleeping Car
411 SILVER TIP Articulated 12-Section Sleeping Car

412 SILVER ARROW Articulated 12-Section Sleeping Car
440 SILVER SIDES Articulated 3-Compartment 1-Drawing Room 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

230 SILVER FLASH 10-Revenue Seat Parlor 31-Seat Lounge Observation

A 64-Seat Coach Buffet 16-Seat Dinette car 4852 SILVER BEAM was added to the above consist in May 1938 ahead of the articulated coaches. This car was added for summer season only until 1941 at which time it became permanent year round.

In April 1939 a 4-Roomette 4-Chambrette 1-Drawing Room 1-Compartment 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping car 445 SILVER SLIPPER was added to the abopve consist ahead of 230 SILVER FLASH.

CONSIST TWO

9907A SILVER KNIGHT 1,800 HP Shovelnose Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

9907B SILVER PRINCESS 1,200 HP Diesel Booster Unit

951 SILVER HERALD Auxiliary Power 30' Railway Post Office Baggage Car

981 SILVER BAR Baggage 12-Crew Dormitory Bar 31-Seat Lounge Car

4833 SILVER SPRUCE Articulated 64-Revenue Seat Coach
4834 SILVER PLUME Articulate 38-Revenue Seat Coach
153 SILVER SERVICE Articulated Kitchen 40-Seat Dining Car

413 SILVER SKATES Articulated 12-Section Sleeping Car
414 SILVER SCREEN Articulated 12-Section Sleeping Car

415 SILVER TONE Articulated 12-Section Sleeping Car
441 SILVER THREADS Articulated 3-Compartment 1-Drawing Room 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

231 SILVER STREAK 10-Revenue Seat Parlor Buffet 31-Seat Lounge Observation

A 64-Seat Coach Buffet 16-Seat Dinette Car 4853 SILVER BELL was added to the above consist in May 1938 ahead of the articulated coaches. This car was initially operated during peak travel periods summera dn Christmas until summer 1941 when when the car was added permanently to the consist.

A 4 Roomette 4-Chambrette 1-Drawing Room 1-Compartment 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car 446 SILVER MOON was added ahead of 231 SILVER STREAK in April 1939.

TTFN Al

[red p]

Good morning Tom Is the coffee fre***his morning? How about an order off biscuts and gravy also.
I know I havnt been in in a while, Ive made 2 round trips since the last time I was here.
Im 1st. out now and getting ready to go to work again. Its been crazy out there Benn getting out on my rest on both ends of the road. Been a lot of trains going dead out there latly, so there calling a few relief jobs.
I went dead the other day, dispatcher and another train stop and pick us up. We were on duty 17 hours before we got to the terminal and got markedd off.
P

[jlampke]

Morning' Gents. (Who's running the place today? [?] ) I'll have a hot lemon tea and an apple fritter to start the day, please. [:)]

I'm normally not an early morning type person, but the trip across the Pacific and all the time changes have got my sleep hours a little out of sync here... [|)]

Glad you guys found the item on the 4449 & 700 derailment this last weekend interesting.
I was hugely relieved to hear that damage to the locomotives was minimal. While I'm not
in any way involved with them at this time, they are "near & dear" to me, so to speak.

Mike; Holy smokes man! [:O] I spent a couple hours looking over all the URL's you posted. (what's URL stand for? [?] ) Well, sadly, [:(] I've heard horror stories IRT the way the railroads treated passengers towards the end, but didn't want to believe it was official company policy..... [tdn]

I have an older camera I bought in the '80's (and like), but it makes getting pictures onto a computer a little bit of an ordeal. [%-)] I may have to break down, join the 21st century and get a digital camera so I can really participate here.

Doug; I'm ashamed to admit that I didn't catch your inclusion of Tom in your picture until after it was pointed out. Nice touch. I'll have to keep that in mind for future reference and pranks........ [:-,]

Cell phones..... well, I bought one for my teenage daughter last Christmas. She had asked for one a couple years earlier when she was 14, but I thought she needed to be a little older.... so now it was time. Plus, I liked the idea of her having a phone if she was driving, in case of trouble. For the first few months, no problem. Last May, she ran her minutes over and the bill was excessive. I pointed it out to her, and increased her service level and monthly minutes thinking it would solve the problem. June, July & August she went over her minutes, so I took the phone back and had the service cancelled. Too bad.
[V] I don't see her a lot, so I try to keep unpleasantries to a minimum, but that was out of control. I'm still fuming about it. [:(!] [:(!]

Tom; IRT the Mentor Village Gazette (henceforth to be referred to as MVG by me) I would have to say that it seems you missed your calling in life.... Very imaginative.
[tup]

We call them "Tiger Cruises", or "Dependant Cruises". Usually it's just for a day, or if a ship is returning from West Pac they'll allow guests from Hawaii to the West Coast. Not usually done, and especially rare in the post 9-11 world, thanks to those wonderful Muslims............ It was pretty rare on an ammo ship even before that.

I don't want to sound like the Bar Idiot here [D)] , and maybe I missed something, but please explain to me why a couple of you referred to an "inappropriate ending" to Sunday's posts. [D)] [?] If you don't want to post it here, send me an e-mail.

Rob; Back in early '96 the ship I was on at the time, the USNS San Jose (T-AFS 7) went to Manila for about a week. There were a couple Canadian ships there tied up to the pier across from us. If I remember right, they were the Halifax and the Vancouver. I keep notes, but my '96 book is at home in OR. I went aboard to look 'em over. Very clean ships. Wasn't I surprised when the Petty Officer assigned to escort me around took me to the bar!!! [:O] U.S. ships don't have any such a thing aboard ship. If caught with booze, we would be severely disciplined. Especially after the Exxon Valdez grounding and spill.

Typical of life in the good ol' USA anymore......... Punish everybody for the actions of a few.
[V] That's why they search little old ladies at airports; We sure don't want to hurt any Muslim's feelings........ Political correctness really burns me up............. [soapbox]

Doug; Very interesting story on The Great Pickleworks Wreck. Thanks. [tup]

John [|(]

[siberianmo]

G’day All!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #42

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the New York Central (NYC) in a 1950 advertisement from my private collection:

X marks my Room

. . . on a Dieseliner, and no hotel was ever finer. For New York Central travel feels just like a great hotel on wheels!

Having a Wonderful Time you see,
Loafing or working in privacy.
But when I feel more like a chat,
The lounge car is just made for that!

. . . . . . . . . . The Meals are Swell, and I am able
. . . . . . . . . . To have them at a real table.
. . . . . . . . . . It’s fun – this dining as I ride,
. . . . . . . . . . With scenery “served on the side!”

My Big, Soft Bed is six-foot-three,
Smooth Diesel power cradles me.
For sleep, no place could better suit,
Than Central’s Water Level Route!

. . . . . . . . . . No Need to Step Outside my door
. . . . . . . . . . To wash and dress next morning, for
. . . . . . . . . . My Central room’s equipped complete,
. . . . . . . . . . And when I leave, I’m fresh and neat.

My Plans are Sure! Come storm or fair,
My Dieseliner gets me there.
On New York Central trains I find Comfort is matched by peace of mind!

Make these great trains your Hotels on Wheels

New York – Chicago
20th CENTURY LIMITED
COMMODORE VANDERBILT

. . . . . Chicago – Boston
. . . . . NEW ENGLAND STATES

St. Louis, Indianapolis – New York, Boston
SOUTHWESTERN LIMITED

. . . . . Cincinnati – New York
. . . . . OHIO STATE LIMITED

New York – Cleveland
CLEVELAND LIMITED

. . . . . New York – Detroit
. . . . . THE DETROITER

And many, many others!


. . . . . NEW YORK CENTRAL RAILROAD . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . The Water Level Route – You Can Sleep . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)][oX)]

CHECK THE MONDAY SUMMARY and INDEX PAGES FOR MORE GREAT NOSTALGIA POSTS!