"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[siberianmo]

Mornin' Gents!

Just a quickie as I've got a "visitor" comin' over this AM. My son is in town and will be spending the morning with me.[tup] Been awhile ..... He's in town for the "Stones" concert downtown ... Interesting that he'd want to attend something like that, given that these guys aren't that far off in age from moi![swg]

Want to pay particular attention to the return of activity at the bar last night! Many THANX to all who stopped in, but especially Nick and Pete for the repeated Posts![tup][tup] Also, glad to see Doug back in "fine form" with another great edition of his Smoke Deflectors, Part III.[tup] Seemed like a return to "normalcy" 'round the tavern![swg]

Apologies in advance if I've neglected to address anything specifically intended for moi - but 'tis time for me to get movin' ..... Pete and Nick your Pix have arrived, but I haven't had time to check 'em. Will do, later on. Thanx![tup][tup]

Later!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

FRIDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of POSTS

We open at 6 AM, all time zones. (Don’t ask how we do that!)[swg]

G’day! Here we are again – Friday, time to fill up the coffee mugs, check out the menu board for our <traditional> and <light> breakfasts and sample The Mentor Village Bakery pastry case![swg]


Daily Wisdom

If people don’t want to come to the ballpark, how are you going to stop them? (Yogi-ism)


Info for the Day:

* Weekly Calendar:

Today Pizza Nite! & Steak ‘n Fries Nite!
Saturday Steak ‘n Trimmin’s Nite! and ENCORE! Saturday

…..and don’t forget Sunday Photo Posting Day!

RR Book Relay – First mailing was Monday![tup]

A new series begins on Monday – watch for it!


SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 26 Jan 2006, 05:33:14 (230) Thursday’s Info & Summary

(2) passengerfan Al Posted: 26 Jan 2006, 06:22:53 (230) Streamlined Dome Cars

(3) passengerfan Al Posted: 26 Jan 2006, 06:43:30 (230) Streamliner #49

(4) siberianmo Tom Posted: 26 Jan 2006, 08:20:52 (230) Acknowledgments, etc.

(5) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 26 Jan 2006, 10:01:48 (230) Chat & SP info

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 26 Jan 2006, 12:30:48 (230) reply to coalminer3

(7) passengerfan Al Posted: 26 Jan 2006, 14:46:16 (230) Reno comment

(8) LoveDomes Lars Posted: 26 Jan 2006, 15:32:06 (230) PM Chat, etc.

(9) siberianmo Tom Posted: 26 Jan 2006, 16:33:48 (230) NOSTALGIA #65 Ad, Milwaukee Road (1933)

(10) siberianmo Tom Posted: 26 Jan 2006, 16:44:59 (230) Acknowledgments, etc.

(11) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 26 Jan 2006, 18:53:56 (230) Inclusive Post – Nickstyle!

(12) pwolfe Pete Posted: 26 Jan 2006, 18:57:53 (230) Inclusive Post – Petestyle!

(13) wanswheel Mike Posted: 26 Jan 2006, 19:19:51 (230) He’s baaaaaaaack!

(14) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 26 Jan 2006, 19:46:37 (230) Menu!

(15) siberianmo Tom Posted: 26 Jan 2006, 19:51:21 (230) Acknowledgments, etc.

(16) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 26 Jan 2006, 20:49:23 (230) Inclusive Post, etc.

(17) barndad Doug Posted: 26 Jan 2006, 21:02:44 (230) Inclusive Post & Smoke Deflectors, Part III

(18) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 26 Jan 2006, 21:12:36 (231) etc.

(19) pwolfe Pete Posted: 26 Jan 2006, 22:05:50 (231) etc.



NOW SHOWING:

The Mentor Village Emporium Theatre

. . . January 23rd thru 28th: Denver and Rio Grande (1952) starring Edmond O’Brien, Sterling Hayden & Dean Jagger

Coming attractions!
Double Features beginning Monday, January 30th!

. . . Sunday, January 29th: DOUBLE FEATURE Narrow Margin (1990) starring Gene Hackman & Anne Archer – and – North by Northwest (1959) starring Cary Grant, Eva Marie Saint & James Mason.

. . . January 30th thru February 4th: DOUBLE FEATURE Oh, Mr. Porter! (British - 1937) starring Will Hay, Moore Marriott & Graham Moffitt – and – Shadow of a Doubt (1943) starring Teresa Wright, Joseph Cotten & Macdonald Carey.


That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

A pint of the usual to go with the great food.

NICK Yes red does not suit the Great Western locos at all, there is talk of when the King Class # 6023 is restored it may appear in the early British Railways Blue from the late 40s and early 50s it can,t be worse than the red
The last Steam Railway mag NO 318 was a special S&D issue with some fine pictures of the line in the period you were modelling it has the newly overhauled S&D 2-8-0 on the cover, which is based on the West Somerset Railway. Did you get to visit the line[?]. Unfortunatly I never did. although I believe it had two helli***unnels on a single-track, steeply graded, part of the line. Which DOUG"s fine post describes what it was like for the enginemen in such tunnels another great series [tup].

MIKE Wonderful photo of the elephant and loco.

TOM Thanks for the kind words[tup]. I have sent the photos hope you got them OK.
On the Nostalgia #60 it surprises me that the L.N.E.R and the L.M.S Railway companies were so cooperative in 1933 although that was the year that W.A. Stanier produced the first pacific for the L.M.S. which lead to the rivalry for speed and the Scottish passengers later that decade. I had thought that the two companies had been serious rivals since the grouping in 1923 which brought them into being.

Well I'll have one more after the [dinner] and be off. PETE.

[nickinwestwales]

Extra note-Tom,will send station pix again in the morning-had my suspicions at the time that all was not right,also same pic but 15 years later shot from the footbridge-couldn`t believe how much has changed-very sad but march of progress and all that -at least ( most ) of the tracks are still in place-now in occaisional use only as a M.O.W yard-lovely to see the D.M.U in the `down` platform and the class 47 working the yard [tup][^][tup] later chaps,nick[C=:-)]

[Anonymous]

Good evening Tom and gents! Long time no see, and sorry about that. My working hours are bordering on insane these days. Please set me up with a bottlemless draught, and here's a whole stack of coins for the coal scuttle. There is no way I have had time to read all that's been written since Sunday to make a truely inclusive post. Even when the thread seems to slow down, there is an awful lot of material that is posted here! I must admit I need to go back and read this weeks postings from everyone, but one thing stands out .... I can't help but think that Al must have twenty or more fingers! I'm going to need an hour of real concentration-time to get through all this great material! Good job to all of you, and Tom did his usually great job running the place and keepping the help in line.

Getting back to the Sunday pix....Tom posted Domes, and Nick's Royal Navy Armory pix, and Ted's layout. Lars posted dome pix, and then my personal favorite ... pix with the information attached to them! Then there was Rus' Milwaukee pix ... then I ran out of time to read the thread. I'll get back to it later to acknowlege the rest of the contributors later.

Glad you liked some of my old stuff Pete. We're both in catch-up mode these days, and you are right ... this is a very special thread frequented by a good crowd!

Nick ... WOW! You made my prawns? I'll have 2 dozen .. please.

At the risk of this being classified a "hit and run" post .. I must share the 3rd part of the smoke deflector series ... and boogie off to bed. 4am comes early ...for me. Take care gentlemen, and here it is:

Smoke Deflectors by Herbert G. Monroe from Railroad Magazine Feb. 1941

The Sata Fe has long used stack extensions on its locomotives. Hinged at the rear, they must be manually raised and lowered; a disadvantage overcome in the instance of the Milwaukee design.


Dusty Rhodes, assigned to Big Liz, a Mallet compound on the Oakdale-Oneida turn, about that time devised a sort of gas mask, which was later manufactured under the name of Rhodes, Guffey & Sheehan Tunnel Mask. This device, which is still in use today, consists of closely woven canvas hood, provided with goggles. The lower portion of the hood or mask is double, with the edges at the bottom so stitched that there can be no leakage of air between them. The outer casing has an opening to which a small rubber hose is attached, and the hose, in turn, leads to a pipe coming from the main reservoir on the engine. Opposite the opening, it is well to have some filtering material, though it is not necessary. Near the top of the double portion of the mask there are a number of vents reaching into the interior.

When the mask is in use, it is simply slipped on over the head with the goggles, of course, in front of the eyes. A stream of compressed air from the main reservoir is admitted to the space between the double portion of the mask. The air slightly expands the mask, making it fit closely to the head, and air escaping from the interior flows down over the face, past the nose and mouth and finally escapes at the bottom. The tube for the fireman’s mask is much longer than that connecting with the engineer’s, and enters at the rear of the mask so as not to restrict his movements. Rhodes’ brainchild worked well enough, but it obviously did not protect human flesh from the blistering flop-over smoke deflectors.

Because everyone was doing his or her part in helping to win the ruckus across he pond, however, the engine crews on the Santa Fes, while doing some grumbling and cussing, knuckled down to their jobs like true soldiers, and the trains went through. But after the Armistice was signed, the thing that had been smouldering inside the hides of engineers and foremen boiled to the surface, and they refused to run these snorting hunks of perdition.

General Manager Horace Baker sent for John ***man, chairman of the Local, and wrathfully demanded the reason for this mutinous conduct. Mr. ***man explained the situation. The boys, he said, would handle the light Mikes but not the Santa Fes. The G.M. banged his desk. “I’ll fire any man who refuses a call to go out on those engines!” he bellowed. However, when he had cooled off, he called in Fred Brown, then officer in charge of operation under Federal control. Mr. Brown scratched his head and loped off to put a bee in the rear of the general chairman, J.L. Whidden, possibly nursing the hunch that where there is smoke there must be at least a little fire.

Mr. Brown and Mr. Whidden teamed up and waylaid Mr. ***man. Mr. ***man spread his hand, and said, in effect, “Gentlemen, those Santa Fes are Satan’s own contraption in a tunnel; you’ve got to do something.” Fred Brown suggested a test run. General Manager Baker was agreeable, and it was promptly arranged. The train was to leave Danville at 11 o’clock, with 1350 tons. The engine was the 6352. Road foreman of engines, Bob Pierce was there, and John Offutt, with Dusty Rhodes in the dynamometer car.

Mr. Brown and Mr. Whidden arrived. It seems that, either they had been to a party, or they thought they were going to one, for they were faultlessly attired, according to Hogger Tom Snyder. He asserts absolutely that Mr. Whidden was wearing a Palm Beach suit and a smart new Panama hat. “The Santa Fes” says Tom, “fitted into those tunnels plenty tight, with the result that what air there was superheated several degrees hotter that Tophet. We had engineer George Guffey along as official heat recorder. His thermometer was only graduated to 160. It registered that.

“How much hotter it was, I don’t know. But I do know that E.B. Turpin, the fireman, and Johnny ***man had a heck of a time keeping Whidden and Fred Brown from jumping out the gangway and ending it all. “When we nosed into King’s Mountain, we had 175 pounds of steam instead of 200. The Santa Fe slipped to her knees and almost blew the roof out of the tunnel. I thought every minute we were going to stall. When we came out, I didn’t have steam enough to blow the whistle, and the old hog died less than a hundred feet from the portal.”

“All you could see of Mr. Brown and Mr. Whidden were the whites of their eyes. I said, ‘What do you think of her gentlemen?’ Mr. Brown gasped, ‘Gosh all hemlock, I thought I was on fire!’ Mr. Whidden, for his part, was standing in the middle of his Panama hat, and when I called this to his attention, he kicked it out of the gangway, and said, ‘To hell with it!’ They were both pretty well done up, but game to the core. We blew the 6352 hot and started for Greenwood Hill and No. 9 Tunnel. When we got through, Mr. Brown headed for KD tower and sent a wire to General Manager Baker. I understand that the message read, ‘You’re not going to fire anybody. Those tunnels are hotter than the hobs of hell.’”

Three days later engine 6368 rolled out of the shops with a boiler-plate duct extending from directly back of the stack to the rear of the cab. It was rectangular in shape, except where it joined the stack. Here it gradually shaped to a half circular pipe, fashioned to receive a sliding duct. This flue was about 12 inches in height and spread from the outer diameter of the stack back about four feet. It divided to pass around the steam dome.

In front of the stack there was a hood, mounted on a sliding carriage. This fitted into the main duct. It was operated from below by an air cylinder, similar to the ones now in service on Wimble ducts. In addition to the smoke flue, two 16-inch fans, connected directly to the headlight dynamos, were installed beneath the seat-box. These whipped the normally cool tunnel air back into the cabs. The “Rat-Hole” was again liveable.

A lot of smoke has blown over the mountain since those hectic days. The Santa Fes were finally sent to the Charlotte Division to run in the mountain district between Greenville, S.C., and Atlanta. The Southern purchased 25 heavy Mikados to replace the light 4500-class engines; eleven of the tunnels have been eliminated and the tracks through the others have been lowered from two to three feet.

The arrangement of the sloping-plane type of smoke-lifter is clearly shown in the picture of the Lehigh Valley’s 2102 (assigned to the “John Wilkes”)

[nickinwestwales]

Well looky here-the boys are back in town ( huge blast of Thin Lizzy from the Wurlitzer) PETE-good to here from you,sorry we didn`t get a face to face together-next time for sure[^]-R.E Harry Potter-they used either a Hall or Castle (seriously ugly in red ) as produced in the Hornby commemorative ( cash in ) set-extra note,the viaduct sequence (with the flying Ford Angle-box) was shot on Glenfinnan viaduct on the west highland line I believe.
I recall the James Bolam series you mention-was it not called "the Beiderbecke tapes" or something similar?-a very gentle and quite `English` detective show as I remember and extremely funny in a dry and understated sort of way...
The reference to the `Land Cruise` tours was,I think,in relation to the W.H.R-The phrase had a nice ring to it so I borrowed it,however I`m sure `ive got something somewhere-will get burrowing.
Will throw in the list of the Brit models for next weds. `pikes perspectives`-even if it will be completely meaningless to everybody else ,with the six nations looming and France & Wales both looking disturbingly fit,us Engli***ypes need to stick together ( Swing low,sweet chariot....)
MIKE -nice to see you back amongst us-Bangor is OURS-please send it back,it leaves a large and difficult to explain hole in the map...........Hope you enjoyed the W.H.R `tour`-the only place in Britain where you will find Beyer-Garrett`s in regular service ( If you think those 2-footers are big,you should see the std. gauge monsters )
check out sunday pix for the original stock from the line,plus a couple of context shots of the scenery
Well-band practice tonight and in the quest for new material we have added "Sisters are doing it for themselves " and "Missionary Man" by the sublime Annie Lennox plus "Gimme Shelter" by The Stones-possibly the most sinister and menacing record ever recorded,which,aided and abetted by Fat Steve`s monster drumming reached a level of intensity I would not have imagined possible-A thoroughly exhilarating experience (particulaly as I get to play the Keith Richards guitar part [^][^][^]
Well then good people,it looks like the moonlight mile for me this night-[4:-)][oX)]TOM-if you would be good enough to break out the special reserve rum we`ll have a shot each to toast the ongoing success of the only show in town--sleep well one and all,nick,[C=:-)]

[siberianmo]

Good Evenin' Gents!

Well, well, well - I am most pleased to see that three more have "popped in" on this Thursday! Especially happy to [#welcome] back Pete after his 25 page "homework assignment," and a hearty "howdy" [C):-)] to Mike after a rather lengthy (for him) absence.[tup][tup] And to Nick, what's to say, other than this place just isn't the same without our overseas correspondent!

Great URL, Mike! Indeed, a different definition for Grand Trunk]swg]
Those beer cans of old could only be "squished" by "real men!"[yeah] One day I'll tell one and all about a gal I once knew who was "in" the Miss Rheingold finals.[wow]

Pete It would appear that your return may just be the "tonic" we've been waiting for 'round here. As you undoubtedly have determined, we're down to the framework 'round here and really are depending on everyone to pull the oars.

Mike You too could be a relief barkeep. You've got the wit, I won't have to worry about the inventory being used for personal abuse and you're more than familiar with the cast of characters 'round here. Are you up for it[?]

Nick I'll recheck the Email, but I don't think I've missed anything. There was one message with three photo's: one had the station; and the other two had a 5-pix spread each. They all looked exactly the same to me as when I received them separately. Perhaps you should resend whatever it is you think I didn't get.[%-)][%-)]

Pete A request: PLEASE get any Pix you have for Sunday Photo Posting Day! to me as soona s you can. Saturday is rather "full" for me. Thanx!

And by all means add to the GB Nostaligia - the idea is to generate interest![tup]

Nick THAT is one hulluva joke![swg][tup]<grin> Got more than a few giggles 'round here!

Pete I commend you for taking the time to read the pages you missed while gone. You, Sir, are one fine customer and very much appreciated by the Proprietor![tup][tup][tup]

Nick Just caught that menu - [wow][yeah] - I'll have to fix a couple of "carry outs" for the bride and I. Thanx - as always a fantastic effort from our Chief Chef [C=:-)] - who incidentally is the first staff member we had and oddly enough, the only one remaining![tup][tup][tup] (at least until we get Rob, Bar Chandler back on board)

Leon the Night Man! has the bar! Tonight he looks like one of the characters from The Village People!
Y-M-C-A ...... Y-M-C-A ......

Boris Ring the bell .... a round on the house ... Leon give 'em what they want![swg]

Later .....

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[nickinwestwales]

Right then boys and girls,the galley is now open for business and tonight,since there are only so many fish dishes a chap can cook without boring repitition I thought we might ring the changes a bit,therefore,tonight ,we are delighted to offer:-

From the soup kettle-Carrot & coriander or Leek & potato
light bites-DOUGS butterfly king prawns
....................Whitebait
....................Smoked mackeral pate
..............................................................all with wholemeal breads,fresh from the oven
....................Vegetable Samosa`s with hot lime pickle
....................Thai chicken kebabs with sweet chilli dip
.....................[C=:-)]Caeser salad with blue cheese sauce
......................Stuffed vine leaves with salad nicoise

.....................Buckwheat crepes stuffed with scallops,prawns,cockles& whelks in a
.....................provencal sauce topped with gratineed cheese
.....................Salmon steaks grilled in soy,ginger & spring onion sauce
.....................Whole Maine lobster in beurre blanc sauce ( serves two)

.....................Poachers Pie ( layers of venison,rabbit & duck in a rich port wine sauce
...............................................under a puff pastry crust)
.....................Roast Pheasant with black cherry & brandy sauce
.....................Chicken Maryland with toms,onion rings,fried bananas and croquet potatoes
.....................Pork loin chops with green peppers and Calvados sauce
.....................Swordfish steaks with english mustard and caper sauce

.....................All of the above served with pommes de jour,pommes frites or baked potato
.....................and seasonal vegetable platter or [C=:-)]`s salad

O.K guys,if that isn`t enough to win over your lady-loves then it`s down to you.....
I`ll be in the galley if anyone needs me,see you later,nick[C=:-)]
P.S-[4:-)][oX)]TOM-no such thing as a night off around here---[swg]--but I`ll take a couple of beers back with me-working with Boris is never stress-free,even when it`s quiet .......

[wanswheel]

Hi Tom and everyone. Vote, vote for Miss Rheingold, Miss Rheingold 1956, and
you'll need a church key to open that solid steel beer can or brown glass bottle.

Al, I didn't expect belly laughs, but they're there: the itchy upholstery in the old-time coaches, the sack of mail clobbering somebody on the platform. Walla Walla.

Russ, you must have been a beautiful baby.

Nick, I clicked the link to Welsh Highland and discovered where Maine got Bangor from.

Lars, I think Tom could use a day off, can you tend bar?

Grand Trunk
http://216.94.16.48/people/index_view.cfm?photoid=-1336483902&id=27

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

A pint of Bathams and some of [C=:-)] NICKS Fish and Chips for later please ( I had better not ask for a large cod as the one we had in Canterbury hung over both ends of a fairly large plate[wow].

I have spent a lot of time in the bar since I got back, in the back room catching up on the posts while I've been away, with BORIS getting the beer and TEX for company no doubt I will have to get a lone from the Second National Bank to pay the tab[:-^].

Reading the last 25 pages or so makes one realise what a special place OUR PLACE is with ability to make one laugh out loud and nearly bring one to tears as well as what must be some of the most knowledgeable people on railroads to be found.[tup][tup][tup]
to ALL.

Thanks for the good wishes on my return and may I add a late[#welcome] to LOVEDOMES LARS. I do hope TED can join us often as I shall really miss his wise and entertaining posts a true gentleman and may I wish GOOD LUCK on the new venture [tup].

Lets hope ROB can be with us soon as well.

On page 209 JLAMPKE mention about seeing a loco in Harry Potter red livery in May 2000 in England and later in the cinema. I suspect the loco seen was a West Country 4-6-2 # 34027 which ran as the Hogwarts Express around this time and worked some specials in the south of England at the time. When the first film was made I believe that the makers thought that #34027 was of too modern appearence and a Great Western Hall class 4-6-0 was selected to be come Hogwarts Castle. An interesting note to the films was that on our way to Scotland,in September 2000 on the overnight, my two mates got talking to two young ladies who were arranging the locations for the first Potter film and the ladies quizzed them on steam engines and what a railfan would notice if the loco was filmed badly. From what I've seen the railway sequences were well done.

DOUG Perhaps Nick can bring over some Enville Honey Ale although the Grindstone Brewery in Columbia MO brews a very good mead ale. great posts on the India railway, Edison and the very moving Railway Conductor posts.

ROB More great Classic Juice and Steam what were the 2500 live foxes moved for [?].
and great luck to find the spares for the museum[tup].

WANSWHEELMIKE thanks for the links and theCoal& Railway theme

Good to see DAVE with the Abandoned Lines, Promotory Point, Decapod and Tahoe pieces

RUSSELL Sorry you was poorly and I hope you are fully back to fitness, great pictures of the steam in K.C.

LARS Thanks for the link to the S.I.RT link the modern photos are very simular to the London Underground cars.

P Great story on the runaway train. scary

CM3 You were in our thoughts when we read about the sad news from W.V. while we were in England.

BK Hope you are enjoying Europe and we shall hear more when you return.

AL What can I say [wow] such knowledge great posts.

NICK It was wonderful to talk to you. Did you say you had some info on the North Wales Rail Cruise Train I travelled on this as a youngster and the memory is a bit patchy any details would be great [tup] A list of your B.R. models would be great too.

TED There was a T.V. programme featuring a British actor named James Bolam as a dectective ,I think, which featured the music of Bix Biederbecke absolutly wonderful.

TOM Great issue of the Gazette it is good to know that with Inspecter Clueless and his team we can sleep safe in our beds[^] It is a shame I missed the opening of the Emporium it looks a fine theatre with some great films and the sight of Boris rising up on the Wirlitzer must be seen to be believed[:-,]. Many thanks for the Nostalgias and Encores loved the Model Logos. I will add a bit to the G.B Nostalgias a bit later if I may.
The Yogisms nver fail to raise a smile a great way to start a post[tup].

Great photo Sundays thanks TOM, DOUG, TED ,LARS, ROB, RUSSELL AND NICK and anyone I've missed. now I have found the [censored] adaptor my humble selection is now on the puter and I will attempt to send to Tom.

I hope I have not missed anyone and as I said earlier its great to be back PETE.

[nickinwestwales]

Well good evening fellow tipplers,welcome to fish & chips night at `Our Plaice`,will get to the menu directly,first a couple of matters arising,-[4:-)][oX)]TOM -received your pic of H/West-have a virtually identical view taken some years later which I will forward to you directly,just read your E-Mail and I suspect some messages have gotten crossed en route-you should have a batch of 5 pix taken this afternoon in addition to the 11 mentioned ( the station shot is facing in the same direction but about 100 yds further down the platform by the way)-as mentioned in the mail,if the pix didn`t all arrive let me know and I will re-post-they were sent as a priority doc. so should be at the top of your in-tray.
O.K-to posts-RUSS -the LifeLike F7a`s are the dead basic cheapo version-$25cdn the pair from Georges Trains in Toronto,shipped back by little sis a couple of years back-I would love the P2K versions but over here they cost big bucks-for example,the Model Power units cost £20 each ( thats about 8 beers),the Bachmann units about the same (2nd hand & needed re-painting & lettering)-P2K,Athearn,Stewart,Kato etc cost about 4 to 8 times as much and are not generally available in Canadian Roads so add on price of paint and decals and remove any intrinsic value `cos they are re-paints........
As to era,I used to think I was working in a late 70`s sort of space,however the more time I spend around these parts,the more anomalies I`m starting to spot-I`m very much a novice in matters pertaining to your side of the pond,up until a few years back all my modelling was of Englands Somerset & Dorset Jt rly c.1962-5.
With my new-found knowledge the current thinking is to split my stock into two era`s-50`s+60`s( early F-Units,40` freight cars,some geeps-perhaps add a `mike` or `consolidation` ) and 70`s & 80`s (F40`s,late F-units & geeps,perhaps some 6-axle power plus 50,60&70 ft freight cars)
Passenger traffic would remain fairly constant between eras( with the exception of the GO train bi-level cars,which are fairly obviously late-era)
To answer your un-asked question (?) the S.O.B. Lines are assumed to be the C.N. routes radiating from Allendale on the south-west shore of lake Simcoe-south to Toronto,south west to Burlington,west to Collingwood & Meaford and north to Orillia,carrying through traffic south from the Ontario Northland at North Bay,C.N at Gravenhurst,Huntsville etc plus the C.P via the Collingwood branch interchange and north from the G.T.W and the T.H.B (N.Y.C)-a mixture of authentic and `imagineered` traffic but sufficient to make for an interesting layout to operate
CM3-Sadly,we dont get anything other than 5 channels of s**te over here-I wish we did,I might turn the thing on occaisionally !
If I ever get the chance to visit your part of the world the acoustic guitar,mandolin and mandocello will be the first items checked in,believe me ! [^] --I would love a hammer dulcimer,to my mind a signature instrument of that school of music (happily,I have a rare facility to be able to coax a tune out of any stringed instument once I know the tuning intervals)
Now who mentioned Reno ?-I seem to have a memory of a M.R. special that ran a feature on a W.P branch that ran into the town,complete with a bedroom size double deck trackplan-struck me at the time that it was a lot of layout for one train a day
Right,as it`s fairly late and an adult bar,I reckon I can get away with this...(prompted by daily wisdom and not entirely my fault.....[:-^]..........)
A nun is in the bath one day when she hears a knock at the door,she cant find a towel so she ignores it but the knock comes again & again,eventually she calls out " Whose there ? " back comes the answer " The blind man from the village "- "Oh poor chap" she thinks " I wonder what he wants"and decides to take a chance and nips down and opens the door--- "Good morning Sister" says he,"fabulous t*ts,now where do you want these blinds?"........
Right[4:-)][oX)]TOM-beer all around whilst I concoct a menu,back in a bit,nick[C=:-)]

[siberianmo]

G'day Gents,

[yeah] I figured you'd like the Reno suggestion, Al - a bit of something for everyone, eh[?]

Lars I like the positive approach - but I'll tell ya, when I see guys "looking in" and they don't Post - well it gets to me after awhile. Especially given our circumstances of late.

So you've traveled the California Zephyr eh[?] Perhaps one day you'll share a story or two with us.

And yes, I remember quite vividly those Rheingold AND Bert & Harry Piels TV commercials quite well. Those babes weren't all that bad on those Miss Rheingold contests! The ships I was stationed aboard in those times all had crews who would have voted for each and every one, if only ..... [}:)][:-,]

For Nick Your Pix have been downloaded, uploaded and downloaded again for Sunday Photo Posting Day! Many thanx for not forgetting us![tup][tup][tup]

Also, it appears that absolutely no one is acknowledging our special days of the week and menu selections. So, why not give yourself a break[?] We can suspend the idea for another time.

Okay - I've done my part for this day. The rest is up to whoever is "out there."

Later .....

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

G’day All!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #65

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the Milwaukee Road from a 1933 advertisement in my personal collection.


NORTHWEST WONDERLAND VACATIONS

Along America’s

LONGEST ELECTRIFIED RAILROAD . . .

LOW FARES

YELLOWSTONE
. . . PUGET SOUND COUNTRY
. . . . . . MT. RAINER
MT. BAKER
. . . OLYMPIC PENINSULA
. . . . . . BRITISH COLUMBIA
ALASKA

”A CENTURY OF PROGRESS”

ESCORTED ALL-EXPENSE TOURS

Return via California-Colorado or the Canadian Rockies if you wish.

Costs no more via the OLYMPIAN
The electrified way * Scenically supreme

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


Enjoy!

Tom [4:-)][oX)]

[LoveDomes]

Hello Tom and Gents at the bar!

I'm running a bit late this afternoon as we just returned from one of my wife's impromptu shopping trips. Get the message<grin><ugh>! This Island is only "so big," but she finds a way to shop at every store from one end to the other. Glad that only happens once in ablue moon.[swg]

Okay, what's on tap this day[?] How about a Piels (remember Bert & Harry[?]) Good brew - great commercials. I'll pass on the chow, as we're getting rather close to dinnertime - but - if my spending money is good around here, I'll drop a ten spot on the bar for a round on me!

Been giving a bit of thought to what we can all do to help with the situation around here, and it seems rather simple. Just post when you are able, but try to maintain some degree of consistency with the time of day. I've checked through the past score or more of pages and most guys are all over the charts. Of course we all have differing schedules and the like; everyone isn't so "blessed" to be retired!

I've taken that trip to Reno and to the Left Coast a few times and I'll tell you - it's well worth it. Reno is a blast, even if one doesn't partake in the Casino entrapment. There's lots to check out, the drinks are flowing, the chow is outstanding and as Tom mentioned, the lodging costs are very reasonable. It surely would be a great place for a get together. However, my guess is that it would be rather difficult keeping the ladies at home, wouldn't you think[?][swg] In reading through the parameters of your Rendezvous in Toronto, I see it as a 'stag affair.' Which really makes lots of sense for those of you who are "into" this thread and the love of trains. Taking along someone simply for the sake of going isn't really a good idea insofar as what a get together such as yours is really about. Anyway, I'm off the track here .... Reno would be a great place and the ladies would of course find a way to spend your money (and theirs!)

Hey Al c'mon pal, ease up a bit. Man, I thought my reading glasses had bitten the dust this morning. But it was my eyes going crossed at all of that material you provided. Spread 'em out, man, and make 'em up into sections. Surely would be more friendly in my humble opinion. I've been making copies of your submissions and others, but then decided to stick 'em all on discs. Saves the paper, the printer and is a heck of a lot easier to do.[tup]

Between CM3 and Tom's song titles, we been in stitches around here reading them. Do you suppose the lyrics are as funny as the titles[?][swg]

So is that a hint you dropped a bit ago to CM3 about the SP - does this have to do with your new project[?] We're waiting!

Tom You have the correct approach to things around here - people will come and go and they will find new ways to spend their time. For those who cannot or will not follow the precepts, screw 'em. For those who simply have found other interests, bless 'em. If guys are overtaken by life's events, that happens; support 'em, for they'll find the time to come back.

Time for me to get moving - just one more draught and I've gotta move on.

Until the next time!

Lars

[passengerfan]

Tom Like that Reno idea. Much to see for those interested in rails. Don't miss the Sacramento Museum or the Sierra Railroad. Both are worth seeing.

[siberianmo]

G'day Gents!

Just doing my noon-time check and see that coalminer3 CM3 has stopped in.[tup] And I see a few more song titles that he's somehow managed to have included within Herr Wulitzer's disc inventory.[swg]

Now here's a few even YOU may haven't heard:

Chris Stuart (of the bluegrass band Cornerstone, out of Ithaca NY)
. . . . . Twenty Naked Pentacostals in a Pontiac (*THE* news story of 1993)

Austin Lounge Lizards
. . . . . When Drunks Go Bad

Dr.Joe
. . . . . It's Hard to Find a Napkin in Nashville

and <drumroll>

John Ims
. . . . . When Daddy Cut the Big One[swg]

Ya know, a trip to Reno would be a great Rendezvous idea. Hotels and food costs are certainly within reason, there's lots of railroading interests out that way and the scenery ain't bad![tup][tup] Now, we surely wouldn't need a point man for a place like that, eh[?] But of course, the costs would factor in - always do. Never have made that rail trip and as I've mentioned a few zillion times on these pages, sure would like to! After the Rendezvous I'd board the west bound to see the rest of the scenery then fly home from SFran. Sounds like a plan![yeah]

Stay tuned, CM3, for there's "something on the way" for your SP interests - perhaps in a week or so. Curious[?]

The round and quarters for the Coal Scuttle are most appreciated!

Later ...

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[coalminer3]

Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please, round for the house and $ for the jukebox. How about two songs this a.m. (Nick will enjoy these) "Velcro Arms, Teflon Heart" and "When You Leave Walk Out Backwards, So I'll Think You're Walkin' In." Lovely weather today - snow, high winds, etc., but it's supposed to improve this p.m. The K-9 Korps enjoyed their activities this a.m. - more snow the better.

Also for Nick - This part of WV abounds in old time string bands and bluegrass groups. It's also known for its festivals. I do not know if you get PRI where you are, but if they carry "Mountain Stage - Music From The Heart - Of West Virginia," check it out. I think you'd enjoy it. I know that the program is distributed internationally. Thank also for the Vulcan information - I figured that those locomotives were constucted locally.

As I am an SP devotee, as well as having my interest in things eastern, I appreciated reading abt. the Lake Tahoe area. I always enjoyed trips to Reno (not just for the casinos) as there is a lot of railroading to look at and visit.

There were lots of branch lines that were "saved" during the war for military reasons, and lots of others that were ripped up for scrap. Rogers Whitaker's book, correct me if I'm wrong on the title, Decade of the Trains - The 1940s, had some very interesting stories on this. Many of these lines, of course, led into mining areas, etc. which is how I got interested in them.

For those out there who are into passenger consists and express operations, get a copy of the Winter 2006 SP Trainline. John Signor has a truly encyclopedic article on SP holiday season mail and express trains. These trains handled cars from everywhere. I was especially interested to see all of the NYC cars that ran on these trains, including (in the mid 1960s) Flexi-Vans from New York to west Oakland. Anyway, you could build a model of one of these trains based on the information in the article that would truly be a show stopper.

Well, let's get back to it.

work safe

[siberianmo]

Mornin' Gents!

I see passengerfan Al has "data dumped" this morning![swg] Two more, one a "longie", but both "goodies!" You really need to favorably consider putting these Epistles into parts (a good suggestion by LoveDomes Lars.) Can't speak for anyone other than me, but when I see that much "stuff" so early in the AM - my eyes glaze over!<grin>

Trainnut484 Russell I caught your late night Post and appreciate the business. Hey, whatever happens - happens. I'll still be here until the last man no longer is able to stand![swg]

I recently re-read the first 25 pages of this thread and it's not a bad thing to do in order to keep vivid just where we came from. Things started rather slow, then picked up steam. So, we're in a bit of a lull 'round here, it'll change. New names, new ideas - I look forward to it.[tup]

Okay, Gents, time to get about the day's routine!

Later ...

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for a coffee and another crumpet from the Mentor Bakery.

PASSENGERFAN AL'S STREAMLINER CORNER #49

STARLIGHT SP Trains 94-95 October 2, 1949 San Francisco – Los Angeles coach train daily overnight 11 hours each way 470 miles

The Southern Pacific Railroad NOON DAYLIGHT after being reintroduced following WW II in 1946 never regained the ridership it had enjoyed before the war. The Southern Pacific therefore canceled the NOON DAYLIGHTS at the completion of their runs on October 1, 1949. Another train the COASTER between Los Angeles and San Francisco a heavyweight full service train was discontinued after arrival at opposite terminals on the morning of October 2, 1949. Beginning the evening of October 2, 1949 a new Coach streamlined train named the STARLIGHT began overnight service between Los Angeles and San Francisco in both directions nightly. In actual fact only the train name was new for the cars assigned to the STARLIGHT train sets were mainly prewar DAYLIGHT cars. This gave the STARLIGHT the distinction of being the only overnight train on the Southern Pacific operating in DAYLIGHT colors. Initially the trains were assigned Parlor cars for service between Los Angeles – Santa Barbara and San Francisco – Salinas. The evening Parlor operation lasted less than thirty days.

CONSIST ONE

4448 Streamlined Lima GS-4 4-8-4 Northern Locomotive & Tender

6601 Baggage Mail Car

6055 Heavyweight Baggage Storage Mail Car

6085 Heavyweight Baggage Express Car

2406 Articulated 50- Revenue Seat Coach
2407 Articulated 50- Revenue Seat Coach

2454 Articulated 50- Revenue Seat Coach
2453 Articulated 50- Revenue Seat Coach

10400 56- Seat Coffee Shop Car

10312 68- Seat Tavern Lounge Car

2408 Articulated 50- Revenue Seat Coach
2409 Articulated 50- Revenue Seat Coach

2412 Articulated 50- Revenue Seat Coach
2413 Articulated 50- Revenue Seat Coach

2448 Articulated 46- Revenue Seat Coach
2447 Articulated 46- Revenue Seat Coach

3000 29- Revenue Seat Parlor Car 5- Revenue Seat Parlor Stateroom

CONSIST TWO

4441 Streamlined Lima GS-4 4-8-4 Northern Locomotive & Tender

6602 Baggage Mail Car

6083 Heavyweight Baggage Storage Mail Car

6606 Baggage Express Car

2456 Articulated 50- Revenue Seat Coach
2455 Articulated 50- Revenue Seat Coach

2404 Articulated 50- Revenue Seat Coach
2405 Articulated 50- Revenue Seat Coach

10401 56- Seat Coffee Shop Car

10313 68- Seat Tavern Lounge Car

2402 Articulated 50- Revenue Seat Coach
2403 Articulated 50- Revenue Seat Coach

2410 Articulated 50- Revenue Seat Coach
2411 Articulated 50- Revenue Seat Coach

2446 Articulated 46- Revenue Seat Coach
2445 Articulated 46- Revenue Seat Coach

2951 23- Revenue Seat Parlor 10- Seat Lounge Observation

The STARLIGHT Parlor cars were discontinued October 30, 1949.

Beginning January 10, 1955 the STARLIGHT was dieselized.

The STARLIGHT was combined with the LARK beginning July 15, 1957 and was no longer listed as a separate train.

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for Coffee and a Crumpet from the Mentor Bakery.

Streamlined Dome Cars
Of The
United States & Canada
The following trains began demonstrating or entered service on the dates listed as dome equipped trains. The number of domes listed in parenthesis represents per consist. And the two terminals are shown for each of the dome operated trains.

TRAIN OF TOMORROW May 28, 1947 (4) Demonstrator See UP 457-458 for service.

VISTA DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS CB&Q December 19, 1947 (5) Chicago – Twin Cities twice daily round trips.

COLORADO EAGLE MP- D&RGW June 1948 (1) St. Louis – Denver daily each direction

CHESSIE C&O August 1, 1948 (2) Cincinnati – Washington daily each direction never entered scheduled service.

PERE MARQUETTE C&O October 1948 (1) Chicago – Detroit daily each direction

VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR CB&Q – D&RGW - WP
March 21, 1949 (4) Chicago – Oakland daily each direction.

COLUMBIAN B&O May 5, 1949 (1) Washington – Chicago Overnight each direction

ROYAL GORGE D&RGW September 1949 (1) Denver – Salt Lake City daily each direction via Pueblo.

BLUE BIRD WAB February 26, 1950 (4) St. Louis – Chicago round trip daily

457-458 UP June 18, 1950 (4) Portland – Seattle round trip daily

SHENANDOAH B&O January 8, 1951 (1) Washington – Chicago every other day

CAPITOL LIMITED B&O January 8, 1951 (1) Washington – Chicago overnight each direction

SUPER CHIEF AT&SF December 1951 (1) Chicago – Los Angeles daily each direction

TEXAS EAGLES MP – T&P 1-2 July 1952 (1) St. Louis – Fort Worth overnight each direction

TEXAS EAGLES MP 21-22 July 1952 (1) St. Louis – San Antonio overnight each direction

MISSOURI RIVER EAGLE MP July 1952 (1) St. Louis –Omaha/Lincoln via Kansas City daily each direction

CITY OF KANSAS CITY WAB August 1952 (1) St. Louis – Kansas City round trip daily

MORNING HIAWATHA CMSTP&P December 1952 (1) Chicago – Twin Cities daily each direction

AFTERNOON HIAWATHA CMSTP&P December 1952 (1) Chicago – Twin Cities daily each direction

OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA CMSTP&P December 1952 (1) Chicago – Seattle/Tacoma daily each direction

VISTA DOME AK-SAR-BEN ZEPHYR CB&Q December 1952 (1) Chicago – Omaha/Lincoln Overnight each direction

VISTA DOME KANSAS CITY ZEPHYR CB&Q February 1, 1953 (2) Chicago – Kansas City daily each direction

VISTA DOME AMERICAN ROYAL ZEPHYR CB&Q February 1, 1953 (2) Chicago – Kansas City Overnight each direction

SAN JOAQUIN DAYLIGHT SP June 24, 1954 (1) Oakland – Los Angeles via San Joaquin Valley daily each direction

CHICAGOAN – KANSAS CITYAN AT&SF 1954 (1) Chicago – Oklahoma City daily each way

SAN FRANCISCO CHIEF AT&SF 1954 (1) Chicago – Oakland daily each direction

EL CAPITAN AT&SF 1954 (1) Chicago – Los Angeles daily each direction

NORTH COAST LIMITED CB&Q – NP August 16, 1954 Coaches (2) October 1954 Sleepers (2) total (4) Chicago – Portland/Seattle daily each direction

CITY OF PORTLAND C&NW - UP 1955 (3) Chicago – Portland daily each direction)

CITY OF LOS ANGELES C&NW - UP 1955 (2) Chicago – Los Angeles daily each direction

CHALLENGER C&NW - UP 1955 (1) Chicago – Los Angeles daily each direction

SAN FRANCISCO OVERLAND SP April 1955 (1) Oakland – Ogden daily each direction

SHASTA DAYLIGHT SP May 1955 (1) Oakland – Portland daily each direction

CANADIAN CPR April 24, 1955 (2) Montreal/Toronto – Vancouver daily each direction

DOMINION CPR April 24, 1955 (2) Montreal/Toronto – Vancouver daily each direction

ATLANTIC LIMITED CPR April 24, 1955 (1) Montreal – St. John Overnight each direction

CITY OF ST. LOUIS WAB - UP (1) St. Louis – Los Angeles daily each direction

EMPIRE BUILDER CB&Q - GN Coaches (3) May 29, 1955 Lounges (1) October 1955 Chicago – Portland/Seattle daily each direction

CHIEF AT&SF July 1956 (1) Chicago – Los Angeles daily each direction

VISTA DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS CB&Q October 28, 1956 (3) Chicago – Denver/Colorado Springs Overnight each direction

CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO (SP) 1956 (1) Ogden – Oakland daily each direction

CITY OF DENVER CMSTP&P - UP January 1958 (1) Chicago – Denver Overnight Each direction

TEXAS CHIEF AT&SF 1958 (1) Chicago – Houston daily each direction

WESTERN STAR GN (1) winter only St. Paul – Seattle daily each direction

YAMPA VALLEY MAIL D&RGW (1) Denver – Craig round trip daily

POCAHONTAS N&W 1969 (1) Cincinnati – Norfolk daily each direction

VIGER CPR 1969 (1) Montreal – Quebec City round trip daily

FRONTENAC CPR 1969 (1) Montreal – Quebec City round trip daily

RIDEAU CPR 1969 (1) Montreal – Ottawa round trip daily

RIO GRANDE ZEPHYR D&RGW (5) Denver – Salt Lake City every other day

SUPER CONTINENTAL CNR (1) Edmonton – Vancouver daily each direction

PANORAMA CNR (1) Winnipeg – Vancouver daily each direction

COAST DAYLIGHT SP (1) San Francisco – Los Angeles daily each direction

AURORA ARR (1) Anchorage – Fairbanks summers daily

POWHATAN ARROW N&W (1) Cincinnati – Newport News daily each direction

CITY OF MIAMI IC - CofG – ACL – FEC (1) Chicago – Miami winters only every other day

SOUTH WIND PRR – L&N – ACL – FEC (1) Chicago – Miami winters only every other day

LE CHATEAU CHAMPLAIN CPR (1) Montreal – Quebec City round trip daily

LOUISIANA EAGLE T&P (1) New Orleans – Fort Worth Overnight each direction

TURBO TRAINS CNR (2) Toronto – Montreal twice daily round trips

PANAMA LIMITED IC (1) Chicago – New Orleans winter only one season only overnight each direction

BANNER BLUE WAB (1) Chicago – St. Louis round trip daily

NEBRASKA ZEPHYR CB&Q (1) Chicago – Omaha – Lincoln round trip daily

NANCY HANKS II CofG (1) Atlanta- Savannah round trip daily

CITY OF NEW ORLEANS IC (1) Chicago – New Orleans daily each direction

SOUTHERN CRESCENT SOU – L&N (1) Atlanta – New Orleans daily each direction

The lightweight streamlined Dome car was a new type car that entered the North American rail scene following WW II.
The modern Dome car made its first appearance in June 1945. The railroad that built the first modern dome car CB&Q was also the railroad that introduced the first streamlined diesel powered streamlined train the Pioneer Zephyr in 1934. Later they would introduce the Gallery car to Chicago commuters, and the Slumbercoach first appeared in the CB&Q 1956 version of the VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYR.
The idea for the modern dome originated with General Motors vice president and Electro-Motive Division general manager Mr. Cyrus R. Osborn. On a trip aboard an A-B-B-A set of the companies new EMD FT diesel units leading a freight train through Glenwood Canyon on the D&RGW.
Sitting in the fireman’s seat he was awe struck by the spectacular view from the sloping windows of the lead diesel unit and the idea for the dome was born. When he returned east Mr. Osborn discussed a dome car with leaders of other railroads. The one railroad leader Mr. Osborn inspired with the idea of a dome car was Mr. Ralph Budd president of the CB&Q. The two men close friends talked for many hours about the feasibility of the yet to be named dome car.
It was from this meeting that 4714 SILVER DOME became reality. Along with Burlington’s Chief Mechanical Officer Mr. H.H. Ulrich, and Budd Companies Colonel E.J. Ragsdale SILVER DOME became the world’s first modern Vista-Dome car.
The first Dome was reconstructed from the flat top 52-revenue seat Budd built coach 4714 SILVER ALCHEMY. This modern lightweight streamlined stainless steel car built new in June 1940 would emerge from the Aurora, Illinois shops of the CB&Q in June 1945 as the world’s first Vista Dome car. The number 4714 would remain but the name was changed to SILVER DOME. The CB&Q and Budd people referred to the completed car as a Vista-Dome. The conversion of the car was accomplished with the help of Budd engineers; the car underwent transformation from an ordinary streamlined coach in less than two weeks to the most talked about coach in postwar history. How was the 4714 SILVER ALCHEMY selected? Believe it or not it was by chance the 4714 SILVER ALCHEMY was in the shop undergoing routine maintenance and inspection, it was simply a case of being in the right place at the right time. Atop the center of the car after shopping was a greenhouse looking affair called the dome. This part raised above the roofline featured windows on the sides, top, front and rear. The standard height of this car when it entered the shops was 13’ 6”. Height to top of dome after reconstruction was 16’ 1-1/2”. This would be the highest short dome car built along with a twin out shopped by the CB&Q in 1949 4709 SILVER CASTLE to the same plan as the earlier 4714 SILVER DOME. Those domes built by the three major car builders never exceeded 15’ 10-1/2” in height.
Here was the passenger car feature that could not only provide passenger’s nearly unobstructed viewing to the sides but forward over the top of other cars or one could turn around and see to the rear over the roofs of the trailing cars. Not to mention the view skyward especially worthwhile in mountainous country or along the banks of the Mississippi with the bluffs rising alongside the tracks or across the river. The dome seated 24 passengers arranged in two rows of paired seats 12 on either side of the center aisle facing forward. Above the dome aisle was a panel with heating and air conditioning vents with lights down the center for night use at stations. At other times in the night these lights were extinguished leaving only the small aisle lights lining the floor similar to those used in darkened theaters, these lights did not interfere with night visibility but were visible enough to see ones way to a seat in the dome, and one could see the headlight of the locomotive cutting a swath through the countryside ahead of the speeding train. Those nights of the full moon the dome seats provided an almost eerie view of the passing countryside.
All future standard or short dome cars from Budd, Pullman Standard, and American Car & Foundry would be constructed with a depressed section below the dome and an aisle running along one side of the car beneath the dome.
In the case of CB&Q 4709 SILVER CASTLE and 4714 SILVER DOME there were two aisles down either side beneath the dome and main floor seating beneath the dome was arranged back to back facing outward to the windows. This arrangement cut the revenue seating capacity of these two dome cars to 34 on the main level from the original 52. The 24 seats in the dome were considered non-revenue and this space was not sold, it was open to any passenger who wished to enjoy the passing scenery.
After completion the CB&Q sent the 4714 SILVER DOME on a system wide tour to test passenger reaction to the Vista-Dome.
The dome seemed to provide something for everyone to see and enjoy. For the railfan he was virtually able to look over the shoulder of the engineer as the train raced through the countryside and witness the trackside signals turn from green too red as the train broke the track circuit. On certain railroads where semaphore signals were the order of the day not only did one see the light turn from red to green but watched the semaphore arm drop from the upright position to the stop position. Or one could watch crossing gates drop as the train approached then turn and see them raise once again and the vehicular traffic start across after the train had passed. Every train meet was witnessed first hand by the railfan sitting in the dome. And what railfan cannot remember riding in a dome when a slower scheduled passenger train or freight was overtaken in double track, or triple track territory.
For most passengers the attraction of the dome was viewing the passing scenery as never seen before from a train. Not even the rounded end observations offered the view provided by the new Vista-Dome. In fact no other type car has appeared on the railway scene to offer the view provided by the Vista-Dome. The short domes from Budd, American Car & Foundry and those UP coach domes built by Pullman Standard in 1958 for the CITY OF ST. LOUIS provided the best overall dome viewing.
The 4714 SILVER DOME did more to influence CB&Q postwar new car purchases than any other car. From this singe homemade conversion the CB&Q would become the largest owner of dome cars in the world. This was prior to the merger with the GN, NP, and SP&S that created Burlington Northern. Only Amtrak would own more domes than the Burlington Northern.
On July 23, 1945 4714 SILVER DOME made its debut, operating to Minneapolis in CB&Q train #45 from Chicago.
At the same time CB&Q train #45 was departing Chicago that morning a press conference was being held by GM Vice-President Mr. Cyrus Osborn in Chicago announcing that GM and Pullman Standard had teamed up and were going to build the TRAIN OF TOMORROW as a demonstration train for the country to see.
General Motors itself was impressed enough with the dome idea it was turned over to there design & styling department and Mr. Harley Earl vice-president (famous for the Buick portholes) of styling turned to his staff and turned the idea into three ten foot models complete with clay passengers and crew members to fill them. Thus was born the GM TRAIN OF TOMORROW. These models went on display in 1945 and were exhibited to many railroad presidents and the reaction of these top Railroad executives led to GM awarding a contract to Pullman Standard for four Astra-Dome cars to be pulled by a new matching General Motors EMD E7A unit. The order called for Pullman Standard to build one each Astra-Dome Cars of four car types.
First was an Astra-Dome Coach with seating for 48 on the main car level with bathrooms located beneath the dome, the dome itself seated 24, this car was named STAR DUST.
The second car in the GM TRAIN OF TOMORROW consist was an Astra-Dome dining car with seating at tables for eighteen in the dome arranged three tables for four on one side and three tables for two on the other. The main floor dining room of SKY VIEW as the Astra-Dome dining car was named seated 24 on the main level. The seating in the main dining room on the main level of the car to the rear of the dome dining room was arranged with four triangular tables for four on one side and four triangular tables for two on the other side. The Kitchen was located at the other end of the cars main floor. Food prepared in the Kitchen located in the cars forward main level area traveled by an electric Dumbwaiter at the front of the dome to the smart waiter (the one who received the tips) in the dome. Beneath the dome in the depressed area of SKY VIEW was located a private dining room for ten passengers. Total dining accommodation was provided for 52.
The third Astra-Dome was a sleeping car, providing 24 seats in the dome, the same as the coach. The sleeping accommodation of DREAM CLOUD as the car was named was unusual providing two three berth Drawing Rooms forward of the dome on the main level, beneath the dome was three compartments. On the main level to the rear of the dome was the location for eight duplex roomettes. Thus as a sleeping car Astra-Dome DREAM CLOUD was built with a maximum sleeping car capacity of twenty. The DREAM CLOUD never operated in revenue service as a sleeping car instead after sale to the Union Pacific along with the other three Astra-Dome cars that comprised the TRAIN OF TOMORROW it served as a parlor car. All space was sold at parlor car rates in DREAM CLOUD on its daily Portland-Seattle round trips.
The fourth Astra-Dome in the GM TRAIN OF TOMORROW was a Lounge Observation, again with 24 seats in the dome. This car MOON GLOW featured 44 lounge seats in singles and sofas on the main level and beneath the dome and two bars served the cocktail lounges ahead of and beneath the dome. The area of the main level to the rear of the dome in the beautifully rounded Observation end was strictly a lounge area.
Honors for the first factory built dome coach, dome diner, dome sleeping car, and dome lounge observation went to Pullman Standard. For it was Pullman Standard who designed and built the entire GM TRAIN OF TOMORROW Astra-Dome ASTRA-LINER and proved the concept of the depressed main level section beneath the dome was feasible and had the necessary strength and robustness for railroad use. Ironically Pullman Standard would never build another dome sleeping car or dome dining car, at least not one with kitchen facilities anyway.
The beautiful blue and stainless steel ASTRA-LINER TRAIN OF TOMORROW was first displayed outside Chicago’s Soldier Field May 28, 1947. Two days prior to its public debut at Soldier Field May 26-27, 1947, the TRAIN OF TOMORROW made its first test sortie operating a 560 mile round trip over the Chicago, Indianapolis and Louisville (Monon) to their famous French Lick resort in Indiana from Chicago and return. Ironically the Monon that hosted the GM TRAIN OF TOMORROW on this test run would never own a dome.
After a week in Chicago on public display the GM TRAIN OF TOMORROW departed on a 65,000-mile exhibition tour of the country visiting every major city in the United States that had the necessary clearances for the extended height cars. The exhibition tour was completed in December 1949 and the train sat outside Pullman Standard in Chicago until March 1950.
In April 1950 the GM TRAIN OF TOMORROW complete with EMD E7A 765 was sold to the Union Pacific. After being repainted into UP Streamliner colors of yellow, gray and red in Omaha the train was prepared for another exhibition tour. This time the tour traveled to Los Angeles as part of a CITY OF LOS ANGELES consist out of Omaha. After display in Los Angeles the former GM TRAIN OF TOMORROW consist departed Los Angeles in another CITY OF LOS ANGELES consist for its new home of Portland, Oregon operating in that train as far as Salt Lake City. From Salt Lake City to Pocatello the cars traveled in the BUTTE SPECIAL. From Pocatello via Boise and La Grande the cars traveled in one of the CITY OF PORTLAND consists before arrival in its new Oregon home base.
On June 18, 1950 the cars of the former TRAIN OF TOMORROW were integrated with the other cars of UP pool train 457 and departed Portland for Seattle becoming the first dome equipped train to enter scheduled service in the Pacific Northwest. Train 457 and 458 would be the shortest scheduled dome route in the United States. Leading 457 that day was UP EMD E7A unit 988 the former TRAIN OF TOMORROW 765. Unfortunately the UP charged a premium to ride in any of the dome cars operated in trains 457-458.
But even before the former GM TRAIN OF TOMORROW entered UP service the CB&Q and three other railroads the MP, D&RGW and WP had debuted new Vista-Dome streamliners of there own to the rail traveling public.
First of the new Vista-Dome streamliners to enter scheduled service was the pair of VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS inaugurated December 12, 1947. Each seven car consist featured no less than five Vista-Domes. This was the largest number of dome cars regularly assigned to any day streamliner. The VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYR offered passengers 120 non-revenue seats in the domes and only 244 revenue seats as originally built. Each new VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYR operated a complete daily round trip between Chicago – Minneapolis. In one direction the trains were the VISTA-DOME MORNING TWIN ZEPHYRS and after turning and servicing the trains returned to their respective home terminals operating as the VISTA-DOME AFTERNOON TWIN ZEPHYRS. The route selected for the new trains was the best choice for the CB&Q as the trains paralleled the Mississippi River for the greater part of their journey. The scenery alongside the mighty river with the bluffs on either side was magnificent. The CB&Q would operate Vista-Domes on this route through the BN merger until Amtrak took over the nation’s passenger service in 1971.The two homebuilt domes of the CB&Q often operated in these trains increasing dome seating to 144. The route selected by Amtrak between Chicago and the Twin Cities uses the opposite bank of the Mississippi River for the greater part of its journey.
The Missouri Pacific COLORADO EAGLE added domes to its streamlined consist in June 1948 when Budd delivered three 46-seat leg-rest dome cars with the standard 24 seats in the domes. The MP named them Planetarium Dome cars. The overnight trains between St. Louis and Denver these dome cars were assigned to the COLORADO EAGLE were identical to those built for the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR and were delivered at the same time. The MP cars were painted blue and gray to match the earlier cars and were lettered COLORADO EAGLE. It was originally intended that the COLORADO EAGLE would offer through car service to San Francisco via the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR beyond Denver. This explains the odd number of Planetarium dome cars delivered (three) to the MP for COLORADO EAGLE service.
The other lightweight streamlined Vista-Dome cars that entered service in 1948 were built for the C&O, six cars from Budd all for that roads stillborn CHESSIE. The CHESSIE was to have entered service in late August or early September 1948 but the cars were not actually delivered until October 1948, for service between Washington and Cincinnati with a section of the trains operating from Phoebus (Newport News) to Charlottesville where it would have connected with the Washington –Cincinnati section of the train. The CHESSIE cars originating in Phoebus would have been coupled to the rear of the Washington CHESSIE section and continued to Cincinnati. Eastbound the Phoebus CHESSIE section would have been dropped at Charlottesville and continued as a separate train to Phoebus. Three of the Vista-Dome cars were private room dome cars with the standard 24 seats in the dome and on the main level of these cars at one end was three cabins two doubles and one single beneath the dome was a communications center a car attendants berth and conductor’s office. At the other end of the cars on the main level were six roomettes for train crew. The space in these cars would have been sold at parlor car rates, as the CHESSIE was to have operated on a daytime schedule. These private room dome cars would have operated between Washington and Cincinnati. The other three Vista-Dome cars were carried on the rear from Phoebus to Cincinnati. These three had a coach section forward of the dome that seated twenty. Beneath the dome was a newsstand and pair of restrooms, in the rounded observation end on the cars main level was a spacious 16-seat lounge, once again the dome seated 24. These six cars were built as reduced clearance domes due to the height restrictions in the east with a maximum height of 15’ 5-3/4”. These domes had a forward slant to their penthouses that was never repeated by Budd in any other domes. Even so it is doubtful if they could have operated into Washington Union Station because of the tunnel height at that time
The three Vista-Dome Coach Observations were assigned to the Detroit-Grand Rapids PERE MARQUETTES until sold to the D&RGW September 20, 1949.
The three Vista-Dome sleeping cars were to be assigned to the SPORTSMAN but never entered service in that train instead they were stored from November 1949 until being shopped in Kent, Ohio in October 1950 for conversion to overnight sleeping cars. Before they entered SPORTSMAN service they were sold to the B&O on December 4, 1950 for assignment to their CAPITAL LIMITED one per consist and the extra car was assigned to one of the two SHENANDOAH train sets. The B&O route out of Washington Union Station posed no clearance problems for the domes.
The second Vista-Dome train to enter scheduled service probably became the most famous of all the dome trains the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR operated by the CB&Q between Chicago and Denver, D&RGW between Denver and Salt Lake City and WP between Salt Lake City and Oakland Pier. Here was America’s first lightweight streamlined cruise train. The schedule of the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR was slower than the C&NW-UP-SP CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO. But the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR was scheduled through both the Colorado Rockies and Feather River Canyon in daylight hours in both directions. Again each eleven car consist provided five domes, six sets of equipment were necessary for daily operation. The CB&Q owned 27 cars, D&RGW owned 15, WP owned 24 and the PRR owned a single 10-6 sleeping car for through service to New York. During the years the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR operated it was probably the most talked about train in America. The VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR was inaugurated on March 20, 1949. With five domes seating 120 it matched the earlier VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS in seats under glass. The three Vista Dome coaches in each consist seated 46 on the main level in leg-rest seats. These three Vista-Domes were for the use of the trains Coach passengers. The fourth dome in each VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR featured a 19-seat Coffee shop forward on the main level. Beneath the dome was a lounge seating seven with a service bar and Kitchen. Aft of the depressed center on the main level was Crew Dormitory space for 17 including private rooms for the Zephyrette and dining car steward. Space in this dome was reserved for sleeping car passengers from the trailing cars.
The last dome in the train was also reserved for sleeping car passengers. This Vista Dome featured 3-double bedrooms, 1-drawing room on the main level forward of the dome. Beneath the dome was a bar with lounge seating for 12-passengers. To the rear of the cars depressed center on the main level was an observation lounge seating seventeen and a desk with chair. These Vista-Dome sleeper Lounge Observations with their beautiful rounded end many railroad historians believe were the finest ever built, they were duplicated in 1955 when Canadian Pacific purchased eighteen for operation on the rear of there new transcontinental CANADIAN and secondary transcontinental DOMINION.
The B&O received two reduced clearance Strata-Dome coaches as part of the new postwar COLUMBIAN train sets from Pullman Standard. These two eight car train sets were strikingly beautiful in their matched blue and gray paint scheme. The COLUMBIANS were overnight coach Baltimore – Chicago trains. These domes featured 18- coach seats on the main level forward and 24- coach seats aft of the dome on the main level. There were two lounge areas located beneath the dome, one seating eleven the other six. The height of the COLUMBIANS Pullman Standard built domes for the B&O was only 15’3” lower than any other standard short domes constructed. The new trains entered service in May 1949.
One month later in June 1949 the CB&Q Aurora shops rebuilt 1940 flat top Budd built coach 2709 SILVER CASTLE into a dome coach identical to the 1945 rebuild 4714 SILVER DOME. After completion the two homebuilt domes were often assigned as extra cars to the VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS either replacing one of the train’s regular domes for shopping or as an extra car during peak travel periods.
In September 1949 the 3-Vista-Dome coach lounge observations originally built for the C&O CHESSIE and operated in the Detroit-Grand Rapids PERE MARQUETTES were sold to the D&RGW. Before entering D&RGW service the three cars were fitted with an adapter at the observation end complete with diaphragm making them suitable for use mid-train. These three Vista-Domes were assigned to the ROYAL GORGE operating as dome coach lounge observations between Denver and Grand Junction, Colorado via Colorado Springs and Pueblo. Upon arrival in Grand Junction the PROSPECTOR was coupled to the rear of the ROYAL GORGE and the combined train continued to Salt Lake City. Eastbound the PROSPECTOR-ROYAL GORGE split at Grand Junction and continued by their separate routes to Denver. The PROSPECTOR traveling via the more direct Dotsero cutoff via the Moffat tunnel route would arrive in Denver many hours before the ROYAL GORGE operating via the longer route over Tennessee Pass to Pueblo before turning north to Colorado Springs and Denver.
On February 26, 1950 a new Wabash Domeliner entered service between St. Louis and Chicago operating a single round trip daily. This Budd built six-car diesel powered beauty in gleaming stainless steel and Wabash blue featured no less than four Vista-Domes. Three of these were Vista-Dome coaches the fourth was a Vista-Dome parlor observation. The Vista-Dome cars in the Wabash BLUE BIRD were nearly identical to those built for the CB&Q VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS. The two flat-topped cars were the first car in the BLUE BIRD consist a baggage-lunch counter-lounge and the fifth car a dining-lounge car.
As previously mentioned in September 1950 UP 457-458 the Portland – Seattle pool trains became that railroads first Domeliner. Unofficially the train was the CITY OF SEATTLE to those who rode the first Astra-Dome equipped train in the Pacific Northwest. In reality it was the former GM TRAIN OF TOMORROW equipment operating with other streamlined and heavyweight cars all painted in the UP colors. This was the only dome train operated by a class one railroad in America that required a surcharge to ride in the train’s domes. This was also the shortest scheduled dome route operated in America by a class one railroad.
In December 1950 the B&O purchased the three Vista-Dome sleeping cars built for the C&O CHESSIE and shipped them to Pullman for upgrading for sleeping car service. The cars entered sleeping car service January 8, 1951 with 3-drawing rooms 1-single bedroom and 5-roomettes. Two of the Strata-Dome sleepers were assigned to operation in the Baltimore & Ohio’ finest the all Pullman CAPITOL LIMITED. One operated in each of this trains two consists. On the same date the third Strata-Dome sleeping car was assigned to one of the two SHENANDOAH consists for service between Washington and Chicago. The dome equipped SHENANDOAH consist operated one day eastbound and the next day westbound.
In December 1950 the Santa Fe’s finest the SUPER CHIEF received new dining cars and Pleasure-Domes. These Pleasure-Domes trainlined immediately behind the diners provided only sixteen seats in the dome of the Pullman Standard built domes. They were arranged with one pair facing forward on either side of the center aisle followed by four single swiveling parlor type seats then two more pairs of seats facing the rear. This provided dome seating for only sixteen in an arrangement that was never repeated in any other dome cars ever built. Ahead of the dome was a private dining room for up to twelve named the Turquoise Room. The room was served from the dining car ahead. When not reserved for a movie star or starlet or private party or group it was used as an overflow dining area for the regular 36-seat dining car ahead. Beneath the dome was a cocktail lounge and in the area to the rear of the dome was a large lounge area.
The year 1951 was quiet for production of new dome cars with not a single example being delivered to the railroads.
Early in 1952 the B&O installed four 250-watt locomotive headlights on the roofs of their five Strata-Dome cars ahead of the dome on the right side only. These lights were angled at 60, 70, 80,and 85 degrees to offer the best lighting of the passing scenery. The lights were extinguished when passing through major cities enroute. The B&O was the only railroad to light the countryside for passengers traveling on the COLUMBIAN, CAPITAL LIMITED and SHENANDOAH on their nocturnal journeys.
In July 1952 Pullman Standard delivered a single Vista-Dome parlor car to the Wabash for assignment to the BLUE BIRD. This car was painted Wabash blue with white and stood out in the otherwise all Budd stainless steel and Wabash blue consist. The car featured parlor seating ahead of and behind the dome on the main floor level. Beneath the dome was located the BLUE BIRD room that could be arranged for dining or as a lounge for eleven, the BLUE BIRD room was served by the Dining –Lounge Car trainlined directly ahead. The new Pullman Standard built car was the sixth in the 7-car consist just ahead of the Vista-Dome parlor observation. The addition of this car to the BLUE BIRD gave the Waba***rain the same number of domes as the TWIN ZEPHYRS, except when the latter operated with the pattern domes in their consists.
In July 1952 the Missouri Pacific and its two subsidiaries International Great Northern and Texas & Pacific received five Pullman Standard built Planetarium-Dome coaches. Three of the new Planetarium-Dome coaches were MP owned and one each was lettered for the subsidiaries International Great Northern and Texas & Pacific. These dome coaches seated 42 in reserved seats ahead of and to the rear of the dome on the main level; the dome seated 24 and beneath the dome was lounge seating for 17. The MP assigned four of them to the TEXAS EAGLES the other was at first held as a spare. The WEST TEXAS EAGLE operated Planetarium-Domes between St. Louis and Fort Worth. The SOUTH TEXAS EAGLE operated domes between St. Louis and San Antonio. The fifth Pullman Standard dome or spare was eventually assigned to one of the MISSOURI RIVER EAGLES operating between St. Louis and Omaha via Kansas City. The other odd Budd built dome from 1948 was assigned to the other MISSOURI RIVER EAGLE.
In November-December 1952 Pullman Standard delivered the first full-length dome cars built to the Milwaukee Road. These ten Super- Domes seated 68 on the dome level in single and paired seats and 28 in a café-lounge beneath the dome. These cars were so heavy at 112 tons they rode on special six-wheel trucks to spread the weight. Even so the height to top of dome was only 15’ 6” lower than the later Budd full-length domes by some 4”. The lower level contained equipment rooms at the ends on either side of the café-lounge for the necessary high capacity air-conditioning system, required for so much space under glass. Even so these Super-Domes could be quite warm in the summer months as they traversed Montana and traveled along the banks of the Mississippi River. The Milwaukee Road assigned one each to the two consists of the MORNING HIAWATHAS, another pair were assigned to the AFTERNOON HIAWATHA train sets for service between Chicago and the Twin Cities. The remaining six were assigned to the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA train sets one per consist between Chicago and Seattle-Tacoma. The new Super-Domes entered scheduled service in their respective HIAWATHAS January 1, 1953. The words Super Dome appeared in script below the windows of the lower level café lounge.
Budd delivered a single Vista-Dome sleeper lounge observation to the CB&Q in December 1952. This car was identical to those built earlier for the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR except that the shower in the drawing room annex was factory installed not retrofitted as was the case with the earlier VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR Sleeper Lounge Observations. This car was built for a pool arrangement where certain VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR cars on their Chicago layover were operated in overnight service in the VISTA-DOME AK-SAR-BEN ZEPHYR operating overnight between Chicago and Omaha-Lincoln.
The year 1953 witnessed only four Vista-dome cars being delivered all to the CB&Q. Two of these cars were 24-seat coach with a 3-bunk crew room ahead of the dome. Beneath the dome was a Buffet –Kitchen and 6-seat lounge. To the rear of the depressed center again on the cars main level was the coffee shop seating 17. The dome reached from the coffee shop seated the standard 24 passengers. These two cars served double duty operating in the VISTA DOME KANSAS CITY ZEPHYR consists each way between Chicago and Kansas City daily then returning in the overnight VISTA DOME AMERICAN ROYAL ZEPHYR consists. The daytime VISTA-DOME KANSAS CITY ZEPHYR operated a second Vista Dome in each consist, these cars were twenty-seven seat parlors with a single 5-seat parlor drawing room blunt end observations. The blunt ends still provided windows to the rear but also provided a diaphragm so they could be used mid-train if necessary. The parlor drawing room was located along with a pair of restrooms beneath the dome of these cars.
The years 1954-55 were the banner years for dome car production. During those two years a total of 127 domes came from American Car & Foundry and Budd. In addition SP constructed seven ¾-length domes using frames of older streamlined car types. The work was undertaken in that railroads own Sacramento shops. Budd built the largest number of these dome cars 92. Twenty of these were full-length domes that rode on six wheel trucks and weighed 192,000 lbs. Much lighter than the Pullman Standard built Milwaukee Road Super Domes that topped the scales at 224,000 lbs. The weight difference was attributable to Budd Company’s use of lighter stainless steel throughout in their car construction.
The AT&SF received eight Big-Domes from Budd in the first quarter of 1954. These eight cars featured 57-coach type seats in the forward part of the dome level combined with an 18-seat lounge to the rear on the dome level as well. On the lower level was a single double bedroom for the Courier-Nurse a Bar and 28-seat lounge centered between two equipment lockers that contained the cars air conditioning equipment. The Santa Fe assigned six of these cars to the EL CAPITAN pool one being assigned to each of that trains consists operating between Chicago and Los Angeles. The remaining two of these Big-Domes were assigned one each to the eastbound CHICAGOAN and westbound KANSAS CITYAN daily trains between Chicago and Oklahoma City.
In May 1954 the Santa Fe inaugurated a new streamlined train the SAN FRANCISCO CHIEF between Chicago and its namesake city by way of the panhandle of Texas or Southern transcontinental route. The only new cars built for this train were a series of 48-seat leg-rest coaches and six Big-Domes. These six Big-Domes differed from the earlier ones delivered for the EL CAPITAN and CHICAGOAN-KANSAS CITYAN as they only seated 10 in the lower level bar-lounge area. Instead of a Courier-Nurse room the remaining lower level was occupied by crew dormitory space for twelve. The Dome level of these cars was identical to the earlier Big-Domes delivered to the Santa Fe with 57 coach type seats forward and 18 seat lounge to the rear.
The Northern Pacific introduced new 46-seat leg-rest Vista-Dome coaches to the NORTH COAST LIMITED in July-August 1954 two assigned per consist. These were identical to those built for the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR except they featured flat sides instead of fluted and were painted to match the other cars in the Northern Pacific’s finest in the new Raymond Loewy 2-tone green with white separation stripe scheme. One was a Chicago-Seattle car the other a Chicago-Portland car set out at Pasco and forwarded by the SP&S to and from Portland. Thereafter the train was referred to as the VISTA-DOME NORTH COAST LIMITED. Budd delivered ten Vista-Dome sleeping cars to the NP between September and November 1954. Like the ten Vista-Dome coaches delivered earlier the new Vista-Dome sleepers were assigned in pairs to each consist of the VISTA-DOME NORTH COAST LIMITED between Chicago and Seattle and Chicago – Portland. The Northern Pacific separated the Vista- Dome coaches with a flat top coach in each consist, doing the same with the Vista-Dome sleeping cars, trainlining a flat top sleeping car between the Vista-Dome sleepers. This provided superior viewing from the domes instead of having a train’s domes trainlined together like the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR. The Vista-Dome Sleeping cars featured 24-seats in the dome with four duplex single rooms beneath the dome, four roomettes were located on the main level forward of the dome and aft of the dome on the main level was four double bedrooms. These cars revenue passenger count was only 16 in the cars sleeping space.
The Southern Pacific built seven-¾ length ”Stairway to the Stars” domes in their Sacramento Shops using the frames from older lightweight streamlined cars. The first of the seven was completed in July 1954 and the final car was completed in May 1955. Budd built the dome framework for these cars and shipped them from Philadelphia to Sacramento. These domes extended only 21 inches above the regular car roof. The SP domes did not have enough height for an upper and lower level. Instead the SP domes had six stairs at the one end when coming from the adjoining car leading to the dome level where there were 36 seats. These were arranged as 12 doubles and four singles, also in the raised dome portion of the car were four double and two single lounge sections. After this lounge area one descended six stairs to the main level 28-seat lounge and bar. The dome covered this main level lounge area and ended at the bar. A passageway to the left led to the rear past the bar and to the vestibule leading to the next car. The SP assigned their ¾ length domes to the SHASTA DAYLIGHT between Portland and Oakland, SAN JOAQUIN DAYLIGHT between Oakland and Los Angeles, and SAN FRANCISCO OVERLAND between Oakland and Ogden initially.
Budd began delivering one of their largest postwar orders that for the Canadian Pacific in July 1954. Of this 172-car order 36 were Scenic-Domes divided equally between two types. First there were 18 Skyline domes with 26- leg rest coach seats forward on the main level, beneath the dome was a Kitchen-Bar and a six -seat lounge, on the main level to the rear of the dome was additional buffet-lounge seating area for seventeen. The dome was a standard Budd offering with the usual 24-seats. These cars served meals to coach passengers on the CANADIAN and DOMINION and all passengers of the ATLANTIC LIMITED that train carrying no separate dining car and served as a coach lounge at other times.
The second type of Scenic-Dome car built for the Canadian Pacific was their PARK cars with 3-double bedrooms and 1-drawing room on the main level forward of the dome. Beneath the dome was a bar with twelve seats arranged at tables for two or four. In the rounded observation end on the main level was a desk with chair and thirteen lounge seats. The PARK cars dome area once again was a standard 24-seat arrangement.
The CP ordered these cars for an all-new streamlined transcontinental train the CANADIAN and to upgrade the secondary transcontinental train the DOMINION both Montreal-Toronto to Vancouver trains. The DOMINION operated with not only the Budd built streamlined cars but heavyweights and railroad built streamlined cars. The third train to receive the new Budd equipment was the ATLANTIC LIMITED an overnight train between Montreal and St. John, New Brunswick that operated across the state of Maine nightly. From St. John one could board a CPR steamship for the voyage across the Bay of Fundy to Digby, Nova Scotia. A CPR owned subsidiary the Dominion Atlantic Railway connected with the CP steamship and provided service to Yarmouth at the southern end of Nova Scotia or northbound traveled to Halifax the capital of Nova Scotia operating with Budd built RDC’s.
The Union Pacific began receiving a large order of Astra-Domes in December 1954 starting with coaches. The UP received 10 of these dome coaches from American Car & Foundry in December 1954-January 1955. These cars were quite different then any others constructed as they used mostly aluminum for the body with a steel underbody. Another feature not found on the domes from the other manufacturers was the use of one pane of curved glass for the side and top of the dome glass, only the SUPER DOMES of the Milwaukee Road were similarly equipped. The UP soon found out how expensive they were when they occasionally needed replacement. The UP assigned the dome coaches to the CITY OF PORTLAND between Chicago and Portland and the newly reinstated CHALLENGER between Chicago and Los Angeles. The fifteen Dome Lounge Blunt end observations arrived on the UP between February and April 1955. They were assigned to the CITY OF PORTLAND, CITY OF LOS ANGELES and CHALLENGER initially. Those assigned to the CHALLENGER were soon transferred to the CITY OF ST. LOUIS for operation between St. Louis and Los Angeles via Denver and Kansas City.
In April-May 1955 the UP received 10-Astra-Dome dining cars from ACF. These were based on the original Astra-Dome Dining car from the GM TRAIN OF TOMORROW. The UP assigned five to the CITY OF PORTLAND and the remaining five to the CITY OF LOS ANGELES. The CITY OF PORTLAND was the only UP Domeliner to have all three types of domes initially. Later the CITY OF LOS ANGLES would operate with all three types when it was combined with the CHALLENGERS in the off peak travel periods.
Beginning May 29, 1955 the Great Northern EMPIRE BUILDERS began operating with three Budd built Great-Domes in each consist, two were operated Chicago – Seattle the third operated Chicago – Portland. The Portland Dome coach operated via the SP&S between Spokane and Portland. These were nearly identical to those built the previous year for the NP VISTA-DOME NORTH COAST LIMITED with 46-legrest coach seats on the main floor and the standard 24-seats in the dome. The GN EMPIRE BUILDER cars were smooth sided cars from Budd and were painted in the Pullman Green and Omaha Orange scheme with dulux gold separation stripes and lettering. And if that wasn’t enough dome seating the GN added full- length Budd built Great dome lounge cars to the EMPIRE BUILDER beginning in October 1955. The dome level of these cars was identical to the Santa Fe Big domes with 57 coach seats and 18-seat lounge. The lower level lounge seated 34 with a buffet. The Great Dome Lounge was reserved for the exclusive use of the Pullman passengers. The EMPIRE BUILDER and for a short period the SUPER CONTINENTAL were the only scheduled trains operating with both short domes and a full-length dome assigned to the same consists. The GN received 16 short domes and 6 Great Dome Lounge cars. These domes were the last new cars ever purchased by the Great Northern. The Great Northern referred to both types of domes as Great Domes but also referred to the Budd short domes as Vista-Domes in some company produced literature.
In October 1956 the CB&Q received new cars for the new VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS; each of the two consists operated with three Vista-Domes. First was a 46- leg rest seat dome coach with the standard 24 seats in the dome. The second Vista-Dome in each VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYR was an 8-seat lunch counter 23 –seat coffee shop-Lounge 16-crew dormitory car with 24 – seats in the dome. The last Vista-Dome in the VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYR consists was an 11-seat Parlor with a single 5-seat Parlor Drawing Room on the main level forward. Beneath the Vista-Dome was a Bar with 16-seat Lounge. A 12-seat lounge occupied the blunt ended observation end of the main level. The first and third Vista-Dome in each VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYR consist was a Chicago-Denver car. The second Vista-Dome with the coffee shop was a through Colorado Springs car from Chicago. Continuing beyond Denver this dome accompanied by a coach, Slumbercoach and sleeper was coupled to the rear of the D&RGW ROYAL GORGE beyond Denver to Colorado Springs and return.
In December 1957 the NP received one Vista-Dome 46-seat leg rest coach and one Vista-Dome Sleeping car for assignment to the VISTA DOME NORTH COAST LIMITED pool of cars to operate as spares permitting the others to be rotated through the shops.
Pullman Standard constructed the final order of new Dome cars for the Union Pacific and Waba***o plans supplied by American Car & Foundry. These cars were Astra-Dome coaches and they were identical to those built earlier for the Union Pacific. These six Astra-Dome coaches were assigned to the CITY OF ST. LOUIS upon completion in December 1958 for operation by way of Kansas City and Denver before joining the UP Overland route mainline at Cheyenne.
In the period between June 1945 and December 1958 a total of 236 domes were produced. Two were railroad shop rebuilt short domes (CB&Q), 7 railroad rebuilt ¾ domes (SP), 30 new full domes, and 197 short domes were built by the three car manufacturers American Car & Foundry, Budd Company and Pullman Standard. Only six railroads owned both short domes and full domes AT&SF, CB&Q, GN, BN, Amtrak and Auto-Train, although the latter two railroads purchased theirs used from other railroads at the beginning of Amtrak. The BN cars were the result of the merger of the GN, NP, CB&Q and SP&S in 1970. The CB&Q, GN, BN, and Amtrak were the only railroads that operated both full domes and short domes in the same train the EMPIRE BUILDER.
Auto-Train operated short and full-length domes in their Lorton, Virginia – Sanford, Florida trains.
One railroad owned only full domes Milwaukee Road Super Domes.
One railroad owned only ¾ length domes Southern Pacific reconstructed in their own shops from older streamlined car types.
Pullman Standard built 10-full domes all for Milwaukee Road, and 24-short domes for AT&SF, B&O, GM (TRAIN OF TOMORROW), MP (and subsidiaries IGN, T&P), UP and Wabash.
American Car and Foundry built 35 short domes all for a single customer Union Pacific.
The Budd Company constructed the remaining 138-short domes (CPR, C&O, CB&Q, D&RGW, GN, MP, NP, SP&S, Wabash, and WP) and 20-full domes (AT&SF, GN, and CB&Q). Pullman Standard built a single Astra-Dome sleeping car, a single Astra-Dome dining car, a single dome parlor car, and seventeen (10-Super-Domes CMSTP&P) dome lounge cars only one an observation (Train of Tomorrow) six of these were AT&SF Pleasure Domes and lone observation originally GM TRAIN OF TOMORROW later UP. The remaining Pullman Standard built domes were all coaches’ 2-B&O, 1-IGN, 3-MP, 1-T&P, 6-UP and 1-Wabash.
American Car & Foundry built 10-Astra-Dome coaches, 15-Astra-Dome lounge observations and 10-Astra-Dome dining cars all for the Union Pacific.
Budd Company built 20-full length dome cars with lounges on the lower level 14-AT&SF, 5-GN and 1 CB&Q. The Budd Company built 147 short dome cars. Twenty-five of these short domes were sleeper-lounge-observation types, forty-eight were long distance coaches with 46-legrest seats and seven were parlor observations. Twenty-eight Budd built short domes combined food and beverage service with dormitory or coach seating. Eleven were day coach versions. Budd also built fourteen dome sleeping cars. All others were miscellaneous types.
The following passenger trains are known to have operated with dome cars in there consists prior to Amtrak.

UP – C&NW – CMSTP&P – WABASH

CITY OF DENVER(C&NW-CMSTP&P)-Chicago-Denver

CITY OF LOS ANGELES(C&NW-CMSTP&P-UP)-Chicago-Los Angeles

CITY OF PORTLAND(C&NW-CMSTP&P-UP)–Chicago – Portland

CITY OF ST. LOUIS (WABASH-UP)-St. Louis-Los Angeles

CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO(C&NW-
CMSTP&P-UP-SP)–Chicago – San Francisco

CHALLENGER(C&NW-CMSTP&P-UP) - Chicago – Los Angeles

457/458(UP)-Portland - Seattle

CITY OF KANSAS CITY (WABASH)-St. Louis – Kansas City

BLUEBIRD (WABASH) – St. Louis – Chicago

BANNER BLUE (WABASH) - St. Louis – Chicago

MORNING HIAWATHA (CMSTP&P)-Chicago – Minneapolis


AFTERNOON HIAWATHA (CMSTP&P)-Chicago - Minneapolis

OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA (CMSTP&P)-Chicago-Seattle/Tacoma

CB&Q – D&RGW - GN – NP – SP&S – WP

VISTA-DOME AFTERNOON ZEPHYR (CB&Q)-Chicago-St. Paul/Minneapolis

VISTA-DOME AMERICAN ROYAL ZEPHYR (CB&Q)–Chicago – St. Joseph/Kansas City

VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYR (CB&Q)-Chicago – Denver/Colorado Springs

VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR (CB&Q – D&RGW – WP)-Chicago – San Francisco

VISTA-DOME KANSAS CITY ZEPHYR (CB&Q)-Chicago – St. Joseph/Kansas City

VISTA-DOME NEBRASKA ZEPHYR (CB&Q)-Chicago – Omaha/Lincoln –

VISTA-DOME AK SAR BEN ZEPHYR (CB&Q) Chicago – Omaha/Lincoln


VISTA-DOME MORNING ZEPHYR (CB&Q)-Chicago – St. Paul/Minneapolis

VISTA-DOME SILVER STREAK ZEPHYR (CB&Q) Lincoln/Omaha – St. Joseph/Kansas City

41/42 (CB&Q)-Lincoln – Billings

EMPIRE BUILDER (CB&Q-SP&S-GN) Chicago – Seattle/Portland

VISTA-DOME NORTH COAST LIMITED (CB&Q-SP&S-NP) Chicago – Seattle/Portland

WESTERN STAR (CB&Q-SP&S-GN)-
St. Paul – Seattle

VISTA-DOME ROYAL GORGE (D&RGW)-Denver – Salt Lake City

VISTA-DOME PROSPECTOR (D&RGW) Denver – Salt Lake City

VISTA-DOME YAMPA VALLEY MAIL (D&RGW)-Denver -Craig



MP – IGN T&P –IC
COLORADO EAGLE (MP-D&RGW) St. Louis - Denver

MISSOURI RIVER EAGLE (MP)-St. Louis – Kansas City - Omaha

TEXAS EAGLE 1/2 (MP-T&P)-St. Louis – Dallas/Fort Worth/El Paso

TEXAS EAGLE 21/22 (MP) St. Louis – San Antonio/Houston/Galveston

LOUISIANA EAGLE (T&P)-New Orleans – Dallas/Fort Worth

CITY OF MIAMI (IC-C of G-ACL-FEC) – Chicago – Miami

PANAMA LIMITED (IC) Chicago – New Orleans

CITY OF NEW ORLEANS (IC)-Chicago-New Orleans
AT&SF – SP

SUPER CHIEF (AT&SF) Chicago – Los Angeles

CHIEF (AT&SF) Chicago – Los Angeles

EL CAPITAN (AT&SF)-Chicago – Los Angeles

TEXAS CHIEF (AT&SF) Chicago – Houston/Galveston

CHICAGOAN (AT&SF) Oklahoma City - Chicago

KANSAS CITYAN (AT&SF)-Chicago – Oklahoma City

SAN FRANCISCO CHIEF (AT&SF)-Chicago – San Francisco

SAN FRANCISCO OVERLAND (SP) – Oakland – Ogden

SAN JOAQUIN DAYLIGHT (SP) – Oakland – Los Angeles

COAST DAYLIGHT (SP) San Francisco – Los Angeles

CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO (SP) - Oakland – Ogden

SHASTA DAYLIGHT (SP) – Oakland - Portland

B&O – C&O – PRR – SCL – C of G – SOU

CAPITOL LIMITED (B&O) – Washington - Chicago

SHENANDOAH (B&O) – Washington - Chicago

COLUMBIAN (B&O) – Washington - Chicago

PERE MARQUETTES (C&O) – Chicago – Grand Rapids

SOUTH WIND (PRR-L&N-ACL-FEC) – Chicago - Miami

FLORIDA SPECIAL (ACL) –Richmond - Miami

SILVER METEOR (SCL) – Richmond - Miami

NANCY HANKS II (CofG) Atlanta – Macon - Savannah

SOUTHERN CRESCENT (Southern) – Atlanta – New Orleans

CNR – CPR

SUPER CONTINENTAL (CNR) – Winnipeg - Vancouver or Edmonton - Vancouver

PANORAMA (CNR) Winnipeg -Vancouver

CANADIAN (CPR) Montreal/Toronto - Vancouver

DOMINION (CPR) – Montreal/Toronto - Vancouver

ATLANTIC LIMITED (CPR) Montreal – St. John

LE CHATEAU CHAMPLAIN (CPR) – Montreal - Ottawa

ROYAL YORK (CPR) Montreal - Toronto

FRONTENAC (CPR) Montreal – Quebec City

VIPER (CPR) – Montreal – Quebec City

233/234 (CPR) Montreal - Ottawa

Chicago was the place to see domes; no less than 52 domes arrived and departed the railroad capitol on certain days during the 1960’s. And that was by seven railroads AT&SF, B&O, CB&Q, CMSTP&P, IC, PRR and WAB.
Other cities having large numbers of domes arriving and departing daily were Minneapolis/St. Paul 8-full domes and 34-short domes, Kansas City with 6-full domes and 12 short domes, Denver with 11 short domes and two full domes (former OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA), Oakland 10-short domes, 6-3/4 domes and 2 –full domes. Los Angeles had 2-short domes, 2-3/4 domes and 2-full domes. Seattle had 16-short domes and 2-full domes arriving and departing daily. Portland another west coast destination saw no less than 14-short domes and 2-3/4 domes arriving and departing daily. St. Louis witnessed the arrival and departure of 24-short domes, daily Miami witnessed the arrival and departure of three domes at one time and some sources list four on certain days in the winter, all short domes. North of the border Vancouver witnessed 8-short domes and 4-full domes arrive and depart daily for a brief period.
Fastest daily dome car ride was on the CB&Q MORNING TWIN ZEPHYR as it raced along the east bank of the Mississippi in Wisconsin. Another fast run was on the Milwaukee Road HIAWATHAS as they raced from Chicago to Milwaukee with their full domes. The Santa Fe ran some very fast segments in Kansas with both the SUPER CHIEF and EL CAPITAN in their 39-hour 45- minute dash between Chicago and Los Angeles. Fastest dome ride over a thousand miles the CB&Q 1956 VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS as they raced overnight between the windy city and mile high city nightly in each direction in 16 hours 30 minutes.
The next chapters will take a railroad-by-railroad look at the dome cars. All railroads will be listed that have operated dome cars, except for Amtrak and Via Rail Canada who will have separate chapters.

TTFN AL

[siberianmo]

THURSDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of POSTS

We open at 6 AM, all time zones. (Don’t ask how we do that!)[swg]

G’day! Here we are again – Thursday, time to fill up the coffee mugs, check out the menu board for our <traditional> and <light> breakfasts and sample The Mentor Village Bakery pastry case![swg]


Daily Wisdom

”Dad, the guy is here for the Venetian blinds.” “Look in my pants pocket and give him five bucks.” (Yogi-ism)


Info for the Day:

trolleyboy Rob reports that his computer has died and figures it may be at least two weeks before he’s back. Bad news for us and time for the guys to “step up to the plate!”

* Weekly Calendar:

Today Fish ‘n Chips Nite!
Friday Pizza Nite! & Steak ‘n Fries Nite!
Saturday Steak ‘n Trimmin’s Nite! and ENCORE! Saturday

RR Book Relay – First mailing was Monday![tup]

A new series begins on Monday – watch for it!


SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 25 Jan 2006, 05:31:12 (229) Wednesday’s Info & Summary

(2) passengerfan Al Posted: 25 Jan 2006, 06:10:52 (229) Streamliner #48 – North Coast Limited

(3) passengerfan Al Posted: 25 Jan 2006, 06:29:18 (229) Streamlined Sleeping Cars

(4) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 25 Jan 2006, 08:32:20 (229) Inclusive Post & PRR Pullmans

(5) siberianmo Tom Posted: 25 Jan 2006, 12:13:11 (229) Acknowledgments, etc.

(6) LoveDomes Lars Posted: 25 Jan 2006, 14:56:22 (229) Inclusive Post, etc.

(7) siberianmo Tom Posted: 25 Jan 2006, 16:08:18 (229) NOSTALGIA #64 Ad, Pullman Co.

(8) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 25 Jan 2006, 17:35:29 (229) Inclusive Post, etc.

(9) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 25 Jan 2006, 18:59:09 (229) Loco Inventory

(10) West Coast S Dave Posted: 25 Jan 2006, 19:29:15 (229) Lake Tahoe Railway, etc.

(11) siberianmo Tom Posted: 25 Jan 2006, 19:33:52 (229) reply to nickinwestwales

(12) siberianmo Tom Posted: 25 Jan 2006, 19:42:54 (229) reply to West Coast S

(13) West Coast S Dave Posted: 25 Jan 2006, 20:03:46 (229) etc.

(14) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 25 Jan 2006, 20:42:29 (230) etc.

(15) siberianmo Tom Posted: 25 Jan 2006, 21:50:01 (230) Acknowledgments, etc.

(16) Trainnut484 Russell Posted: 25 Jan 2006, 23:17:29 (230) Chat


NOW SHOWING:

The Mentor Village Emporium Theatre

. . . January 23rd thru 28th: Denver and Rio Grande (1952) starring Edmond O’Brien, Sterling Hayden & Dean Jagger


That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[Trainnut484]

Evening Tom and gang. Leon, I'll have a Bathams for now. Yes, I did change brews on ya, but just for tonight. Thanks to Pete for bringing back those great brews.

Tom, another name from the Land of the Lost just came to me, Gunns Kevin. I don't know what ever came of him. Hopefully Rob can find a remedy to his computer woes. Glad you liked my time-travel pics of myself and the miniature train. I also have a pic of me sitting in an old Santa Fe 2-6-2 steam locomotive, located in the same park, back around when I was like 6 or 7. Then, I had another pic of myself sitting in the same locomotive taken the same time as my current pic in front ot the miniature train. Of course the little 2-6-2 is in sad shape being exposed to the weather and not fenced in. I'm surprised there isn't more vandalism to it now. The paint job is shoddy and badly faded and no lettering. It looks more like a shell than anything else [V]. I don't know if there are any plans to restore it. At least it should be restored cosmetically. It's a far cry from the image in the older pic, where the 2-6-2's paint and lettering was in great shape. Ok enough of the sentimental stuff

My end of semester finals are coming up soon, so the amount of time here is up in the air for now.

Nick, that's quite a major stock you've aquired. Are your Life-Like F7a's Proto 2000, or the regular Life-Like line? What is the era you're modeling?

That's about it for now. Take care,

Russell

[siberianmo]

Evenin' Again!

Dave Where did they go[?] Well, over the past month or so, we've lost several and for assorted reasons. Then last week one of our more dependable guys took on another pursuit, thereby reducing his time here rather dramatically. Following that, the mainstay lost his computer. Add to that the complete void in participation by the trio of new guys we had and you should be able to see that we are down to the nitty gritty 'round here. In other words, there's just a precious few left. Oh yes, yet another of our regulars dropped me an Email to say that his work load will prevent him from Posting on the frequent basis we had become accustomed to. Get the picture[?]

So, let me see if I can sum it up this way:

earlydiesels Dan - Reserved Stool Member - now in the Legion of the Lost. Last I heard he was into a new job.

Theodorebear Ted - Permanent Stool Member - into a new venture. Expect he'll Post now 'n then.

jdonald Don - jlampke John - wanswheel Mike our non-regular regulars apparently have gone elsewhere.

trolleyboy Rob Permanent Stool Member - computer problems; may keep him away up to 2 weeks.

pwolfe Pete Reserved Stool Member - back, but absent.[?]

barndad Doug Reserved Stool Member - time reduced due to increased workload at work. My guess is we'll see him on weekends.

BudKarr BK is on an extended Eurpean business trip. Has Posted a couple of times.

Thanx to Al - Lars - CM3 & Nick we've had a degree of regularity 'round the place. But a far cry from the way it had been.

Thanx for the round![tup]

Nick I'll check into the availabiity of that flick you mentioned - if our distributor can get it, we'll put it on the schedule - thanx![tup]

Come to think of it, I recall your summerhouse from one of the Pix you included in your Emails. Around here, one would simply never leave anything unlocked - zero, zip, zilch. That's just life in the Land of the Free. I'll say this up front, Lord help the SOB who I catch breaking into something of mine. Rather proficient with my "arsenal."[swg]

Okay Gents - Leon the Night Man has arrived and has the bar! Set 'em up, drinks on me! Boris Ring the bell!

Nite[zzz]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[nickinwestwales]

Hey Dave-Don`t Bachmann make a mogul and cars in On30 ?-Peco make the track to suit and with them sharp curves & short trains you could have a nice little portable pike that MissisDave need never know about....................[:-^]...now about that drink.....[^]
[4:-)][oX)]Tom-will be on the case with pix in the A.M,no worries[tup]
Thanks for kind words r.e. trains,-security not an issue happily,layout lives in summerhouse (glorified shed) stock lives indoors between operating sessions.
Used to leave it all up there until some mouth-breather jemmied the door one night and helped himself to a cordless drill ( but left the charger ) and a jig saw with a hopelessly warped blade assembly but totally ignored enough trains to keep himself in crack or whatever for a month-as previously noted,can`t fix stupid.
Regarded this as a big hint from above and responded accordingly.
As I generally work in and around the licensed trade I tend to keep `night owl` hours-plus it`s the only time I get any peace & quiet `round here-can always grab a nap after small demon Hannah is delivered to school in the A.M ( something delightfully decadent about getting your head down in that lull after everybody else has gone off to do a bit [^])
Have to admit to a degree of anxiety r.e. Leon-I accept that Boris is a lost cause & has value only for research purposes ( do you think we might be able to swing a grant of some kind ? ) but Leon seemed to be pretty much of a team player-but then,looking at the rest of the team...........Lets hope it`s just a phase.
Any chance of the Mentor Cine-Emporium showing the 1936 Will Hay classic "Oh Mr Porter" -reckon the boys would love it.....
P.S-cracking `header` shot of the VIA F40`s running through the fall foliage [tup][^][tup]
Right,I`ll have a quick jigger of the special reserve rum,pass the bottle `round the crew & yourself and it`s the good old moonlight mile for yours truly-expect mail in the morning,sleep well one and all,nick [C=:-)]

[West Coast S]

Tom, I have noticed a strange lull of late, where did everyone go? I too negelected to partake in some of the unique railroading experinces afforded by being a residence of CA, all work no play makes Dave yearn for the good old days in a vain attempt to recapture long lost moments!! To think I once considered first generation diesels so common as to never point a camera in their direction!! Manned stations, paper train orders hooked on the fly...the list goes on....

You know, the Lake Tahoe Railway & Navigation would make a fantastic On30 layout!!..must resist temptation!!!!!

Ok Boris set um'up..

Dave

[siberianmo]

Hey Dave Snuck that one in on me, eh[?] We were doing "syncronized Posting," perhaps a new event for the Olympics![swg]

Good to see your return to the bar on a more frequent basis - we surely can use the business these days. We've taken a bit of a hit lately, as I'm sure you've noted.

It never ceases to amaze me just how much you "California guys" provide to this thread in terms of not only interesting stuff, but from you especially, RR's I've never heard of![wow] Too bad (for me) that I didn't take full advantage of the couple of years I had in SoCal to check out the RR's. Then again, there was lots of work to do and I tried my level best to do it. All work and hardly any play left Tom a very dull boy (well, perhaps not all of the time<grin>)!

Thanx for the round - and my guess is that it will be Alexander Keiths for the gang. Boris Ring it!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

Good Evening Guys,

Nick That is one impressive inventory of model RR motive power![wow] Better keep it all under lock 'n key![swg] Like the way you arranged it, very well done.[tup][tup][tup] Thanx for talking the "heat" off of me for Pike Perspective's Day! Next drink is on me .....[swg]

Any pix that you decide are worthy for Posting is fine with me - just ship 'em off by Email and they'll be up for [red[Sunday Photo Posting Day![/red] Now, I do have a request for the station pix - I'd like a view of it if possible. Thanx![tup]

Just checked the time and you're still logged on .... don't people in West Wales ever get to sleep BEFORE midnight[?][swg]

Don't know what's gotten into Leon these days, but the man has really decided that dressing up is "in." Of course, this guy has no perception of what goes with what; oh well - it's good for a laugh or two - BUT not if he sees ya!<grin> The man's a clothes horse, plain 'n simple and he's into the layered look. Latest is: a white silk tank top covered by a beige sleeveless cardigan covered by a red & black checkered flannel shirt. <yikes>

Thanx for keeping the bar hoppin' ...

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[West Coast S]

Afternoon Tom and the crew, round of the good ale if you please, Nick can choose..

Well, i'll do my part and step up to the plate this afternoon, even though I have nothing prepared for presentation, Al you continue to amaze me with your talent, Rob, can relate to the puter issue, here's to a quick return...

I've become fascinated with the little known, Lake Tahoe Railway And Navigation Company, a fifteen mile narrow guage line built from Reno to the north shore of Lake Tahoe. Built in 1881 to convey summer tourist to the grand bathouse and inn located there, the company shops and headquarters were built on the east shore three miles south of the inn, requiring all trains to wye before departing. It was unique in the fact that freight business was not a factor and no attempts were made to attract online freight customers, operated only during the summer months, the line was allowed to snow over in the winter months, thus the cost of snowfighting equiptment could be avoided. Four Standard wood-burning Baldwin narrow guage 2-6-0's and half a dozen Jackson & Sharp passenger coaches were the order of the day along with several flats and three boxcars that served as baggage cars. It is interesting to note that the 2-6-0's were never converted to oil, remaining as wood burners to the end.

Family owned and built, and under constant scrutnity from the ICC and several river steamer companies as to their accounting practices and long-term business intentions, the railway expanded east along the northern shore of Lake Tahoe to tap several lumber lines, thus providing some interchange revenue to contest ongoing legal action, in this matter they were unsucessfull and the dimuntive line was ceded by court action to the Southern Pacific in 1926 which quickly standard guaged the line and constructed new facalities at Lake Tahoe to replace the outdated narrow guage track arraignment. In a stunning defeat to the SP, the connecting lumber lines were ceded to the Western Pacifc who subsquently abandoned them within months of obtaining ownership,once again the line was tourist only with no interchange partners and thus became a fiscal drain to the cash strapped SP.

The cost of snow removal,the automobile and lingering effects of the depression doomed the tiny line, SP filed for abandoment in 1940 but was disallowed to cease service due to the lumber industry preparing for possible involvement in the affairs occuring in Europe. By 1942 SP, WP and Virgina & Truckee had reached a agreement as to moving lumber over the restored lumber lines without using the Lake Tahoe branch, SP once again petitioned for abandoment, this time the rails were desired for use elsewhere by the military, permission was easily obtained.

Keep well all, until my return

Dave

[nickinwestwales]

Right ,here we are again-better kick off with another beer please [4:-)][oX)] TOM-how come I ALWAYS get the glass with the hole in ?
I`m gonna start with a couple of disclaimers here-the list you are about to see consists of a mish-mash of locos that will no doubt have you all rolling in the aisles,clutching your sides and weeping,however my purchasing has been done with price and availability as the principal criteria and it`s only in the last year or so-since we`ve aquired this computer,that I`ve realised what an odd selection I have.
That said,they do the job they were built for and when all`s said and done,they do it under rule #1 ( it`s MY train set ).
So then:-

LOCO........MAKER.................LIVERY...........................NORMAL DUTY TURN

F40ph........Walthers..............GO Transit.....................Toronto-Bradford commuter
F40ph........Walthers...............VIA (grey)......................`Canadian` (representative consist)
F9a.............Bachmann...........VIA (blue).......................To.-Kapuskasing sleeper
F7b.............Athearn (dmy)......VIA (blue)..............................as above
FP7a..........Atlas/Roco............O.N.R (chevron)............`Northlander`(To.-Cochrane)

FP7a...........Atlas/Roco............O.N.R (gn/yellow)........ freight #450/1 N.Bay-To.
F7a..............Athearn (dmy).......as above.........................as above
GP35..........Bachmann.............C.N Zebra......................freight #410 Gravenhurst-To.
RS11..........Model Power.........G.T.W (blue/red)............#491 Detroit-Capreol thru working
F3a..............Model Power........G.T.W (Zebra)................Extra Detroit-To.
F7a..............Life-Like................C.N (Zebra)....................Extra Burlington-Gravenhurst
F7a..............as above..................as above......................G.F.X-Bradford-Don Valley

F2a..............Model Power.........C.N.(Zebra)....................Allendale-To. local
GP9...............as above..............C.N (Noodle)..................Don Valley-Rutherford transfer
RS2...............as above...............(works grey)...................Collingwood branch turn

SW1..............as above................C.N.(Noodle)................. Allendale switcher
GP9...............as above...................as above......................Rutherford yard switcher
F9a...............Bachmann..............C.N (Zebra)................... Pilot for the `big hill`

Right,thats my toys out on display-I would do the same for my Brit trains but it would be completely meaningless to everybody except PETE,who will no doubt see them in the summer anyway,all things being equal.
Time for yet more of that lovely beer and let someone else have a go ,see you in a bit,nick[C=:-)]

[nickinwestwales]

Well happy halfway there day fellow tipplers,I trust we are all in good fettle ?
[4:-)][oX)]TOM-Set `em up for yourself and the chaps-always find the best solution with a quiet bar is to drink loads & make enough noise for a crowd,so lets wind up the Wurlitzer,line up the various glasses ( nice touch by the way[^] ) and kick back for a bit.....
O.K-Tom,have pix of various D.M.U`s ( R.D.C`s ) in H/W stn but none of the station itself-easily arranged however-do you want the buildings or a general view from the overbridge at the N. end ?.
Regardless,will be sent with w/end pix-consider it done[tup]-E-Mail received,will reply directly.-Caught a glimpse of Leon just as I was leaving last night-looked like a Hells Angel at a Gay Pride rally-a truly disturbing sight given his size and general disposition....
Right,lets see whose been through the door this fine day:-
AL-another beauty,lordy you must be some typist-that would take me a week at least,fine effort my man !!!!
CM3-You are obviously a true devotee of all thats best in country music in it`s many forms-I bet you even know the difference between the Nashville & Bakersfield stylings-hows your taste in Kentucky Bluegrass ?
Glad you enjoyed the trip along the W.H.R-a delightful little line,The Vulcan Foundry is (or was) indeed a Brit outfit,will have pix of `Snowdon Ranger`,`Moel Tryfan` and the others on sun-the only `Yankee` on the line was the war dept. Baldwin 4-6-0 #590
The Pullman ads make rather depressing reading-public transport thats better equipped than my cottage..........hey ho
LARS-my comments were entirely genuine-the mental picture of someone tucking into a skunks a**e sandwich tickled me mightily-my brother in law is married to a New Yorker ( one of the Soprano`s judging from the wedding photo`s ) and you are quite right-not people given to wasting words-must be that 24-hour lifestyle you are all supposed to live.......[swg].
Right,as its Pikes Perspectives day `round these parts I shall follow our steamed proprieters lead from last week and give you a run down on the loco roster from my South Ontario Bridge lines pike ( The S.O.B route ) and as LARS has very sensibly suggested,break off here whilst I type it up and give someone else a chance to pitch in.
Another beer plese Boss man & I`ll be back in a bit,nick[C=:-)]