"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[siberianmo]

Little Known Operating Railroads #1

The White Pass & Yukon Route Railway (WPY)



Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.


Reporting marks: WPY

Locale: Alaska, northern British Columbia, Yukon Territory

Dates of operation: 1898–1982, 1988 – present

Track gauge: 3 ft (914 mm)

Headquarters: Skagway, Alaska

The White Pass and Yukon Route (WP&Y, WP&YR) (AAR reporting mark WPY) is a narrow gauge railroad linking the port of Skagway, Alaska with Whitehorse, the capital of Canada's Yukon Territory. An isolated system, it has no connection to any other railroad. The railroad is operated by the Pacific and Arctic Railway and Navigation Company (in Alaska), the British Columbia Yukon Railway Company (in British Columbia) and the British Yukon Railway Company, originally known as the British Yukon Mining, Trading and Transportation Company (in Yukon Territory), which use the trade name White Pass and Yukon Route.

Construction

The line was born of the Klondike Gold Rush of 1897. The most popular route taken by prospectors to the gold fields in Dawson City was a treacherous route from the nearest port in Skagway or Dyea, Alaska across the mountains to the Canadian border at the summit of the Chilkoot Pass or the White Pass. There, the prospectors would not be allowed across by the Canadian authorities unless they had a full ton of supplies with them. There was a need for a better transportation scheme than the pack horses used over the White Pass or people's backs over the Chilkoot Pass. This need generated numerous railroad schemes. In 1897, the Canadian government received 32 proposals for Yukon railroads, most of which were never realized.

In 1897, three separate companies were organized to build a rail link from Skagway to Fort Selkirk, Yukon, 325 miles (525 km) away. Largely financed by British investors, a railroad was soon under construction. A 3 foot (914 mm) gauge was chosen; the narrower roadbed required by a narrow gauge railroad made for big cost savings when that roadbed had to be carved and blasted out of the mountain rock. Even so, 450 tons of explosives were used to reach White Pass summit. The narrow gauge also allowed for a tighter radius to be used on curves, making the task easier by allowing the railroad to follow the landscape more, rather than having to be blasted through it.

Construction started in May 1898. On July 21, 1898, an excursion train hauled passengers for four miles (6 km) out of Skagway, the first train to operate in Alaska. On July 30, 1898, the charter rights and concessions of the three companies were acquired by the White Pass & Yukon Railway Company Limited, a new company organized in London. Construction reached the 2,885-foot summit of White Pass, 20 miles (30 km) away from Skagway, by mid-February 1899. The railway reached Bennett, British Columbia on July 6, 1899. In the summer of 1899, construction started north from Carcross to Whitehorse, 110 miles (178 km) north of Skagway. The construction crews working from Bennett along a difficult lakeshore reached Carcross the next year, and the last spike was driven on July 29, 1900, with service starting on August 1, 1900. However, by then, much of the Gold Rush fever had died down.


"Drumhead" logos such as this often adorned the ends of observation cars on the WP&Y.

Operations before World War II

However, serious professional mining was taking its place; not so much for gold as for other metals such as copper, silver and lead. The closest port was Skagway, the only route there was via the White Pass & Yukon Route's river boats and railroad.

While ores and concentrates formed the bulk of the traffic, the railroad also carried passenger traffic, and other freight. There was, for a long time, no easier way into the Yukon Territory, and no other way into or out of Skagway except by sea.

Financing and route was in place to extend the rails from Whitehorse to Carmacks, but there was chaos in the river transportation service, resulting in a bottleneck. The White Pass instead used the money to purchase most of the riverboats, providing a steady and reliable transportation system between Whitehorse and Dawson City.

While the WP&YR never built between Whitehorse and Fort Selkirk, some minor expansion of the railway occurred after 1900. In 1901, the Taku Tram, a 2½-mile (4 km) portage railroad was built at Taku City, British Columbia, which was operated until 1951. It carried passengers and freight between the S.S. Tutshi operating on Tagish Lake and the M.V. Tarahne operating across Atlin Lake to Atlin, British Columbia. (While the Tutshi was destroyed by a suspicious fire around 1990, the Tarahne was restored and hosts special dinners including murder mysteries. Lifeboats built for the Tutshi's restoration were donated to the Tarahne.) The Taku Tram could not even turn around, and simply backed up on its westbound run. The locomotive used, the Duchess, is now in Carcross.

In 1910, the WP&YR operated a branch line to Pueblo, a mining area near Whitehorse. This branch line was abandoned in 1918; a haul-road follows that course today but is mostly barricaded; a Whitehorse Star editorial in the 1980s noted that this route would be an ideal alignment if the Alaska Highway should ever require a bypass reroute around Whitehorse.

While all other railroads in the Yukon (such as the Klondike Mines Railroad at Dawson City) had been abandoned by 1914, the WP&YR continued to operate.

During the Great Depression, traffic was sparse on the WP&YR, and for a time trains operated as infrequently as once a week.

World War II

With the outbreak of World War II, things took a distinct turn for the busier. Alaska became of strategic importance for the United States; there was much worry that the Japanese might invade it, as the nearest part of the United States to Japan. The US Army took control, bringing some newly built and many used steam locomotives (such as the USATC S118 Class) from closed US narrow gauge lines to the railroad.

There are two persistent myths that show up in almost every book or article which mentions the role of the White Pass & Yukon Route in the building of the Alcan Highway during the Second World War. The myths concern the eleven new 2-8-2 MacArthur type locomotives that the US Army brought to the WP&YR in 1943. Myth #1 is that they were converted from meter gauge to 3 foot gauge by the WP&YR shops in Skagway Alaska. Myth #2 is that they were built for Iran and diverted to the WP&YR. Neither myth is true.

These locomotives, designated USA 190 to USA 200, were constructed by Baldwin Locomotive Works as 36" gauge and shipped fully assembled. No modification was needed. The MacArthur was designed by the American Locomotive Company for 42" gauge and the smaller gauges were cleverly accommodated with various sized spacers in strategic locations and different length axles. In total, nearly 800 MacArthurs were produced by ALCO, Baldwin, and a few other manufacturers.

The reason USA 190-200 were never destined for "Iran" as it's often mistakenly stated in books relating WP&YR history, is that Iran's government railway was standard gauge. Also, because of scarce water and extensive tunnels, Iran was the first case where the Army primarily used diesel locomotives. USATC narrow gauge locomotives were never destined for Iran.

The first locomotives of the MacArthur design that Baldwin Locomotive Works built were USA 190-200 for the WP&YR, which makes them somewhat unique. This initial 1942 sales order to Baldwin for 60 MacArthur meter gauge [39 3/8"] locomotives was for India's extensive meter gauge railway system. The first eleven were diverted to the WP&YR as 36", the next 15 went to India as meter gauge, another 20 went to Queensland Ry as 42", and the remaining 14 were meter gauge for India where the order was destined before the Alaskan and Australian diversions. Therefore if the WP&YR MacArthurs were diverted from anywhere it would have been India, not Iran.

The White Pass saw record volumes of traffic as it served as a vital supply route for construction materials for the new Alaska Highway and other projects. As many as 17 trains were operated daily. In one record period of 24 hours, 37 trains rolled into Whitehorse.

1946-1982

The White Pass steam locomotive is shown here between Bennett, British Columbia and Skagway (GNU Free Documentation)

In 1951, the White Pass and Yukon Corporation Ltd., a new holding company, was incorporated to acquire the three railway companies comprising the WP&YR from the White Pass and Yukon Company, Ltd., which was in liquidation. The railway was financially restructured. While most other narrow gauge systems in North America were closing around this time, the WP&YR remained open.

The railroad dieselised in the mid to late 1950s, one of the few North American narrow gauge railroads to do so. The railroad bought shovelnose diesels from General Electric, and later road-switchers from Alco and Montreal Locomotive Works, as well as a few small switchers.

The railroad was an early pioneer of intermodal freight traffic, commonly called container; advertising of the time referred to it as the Container Route. With custom built container ships, railroad cars and truck trailers, the White Pass showed the benefits of intermodal transportation early - a single container, loaded in the Yukon territory, could be transported anywhere in the world without needing to be opened and reloaded, whether transported by road, rail, or sea. The WP&YR owned the world's first container ship (the Clifford J. Rogers, built in 1955), and in 1956 introduced containers.

The Faro lead-zinc mine opened in 1969. The railway was upgraded with seven new 1200 horsepower (890 kW) locomotives from the American Locomotive Company (Alco), new freight cars, ore buckets, a "straddle carrier" at Whitehorse to transfer from the railway's new fleet of trucks, a new ore dock at Skagway, and assorted work on the rail line to improve alignment. In the fall of 1969, a new tunnel and bridge that bypassed Dead Horse Gulch were built to replace the tall steel cantilever bridge that could not carry the heavier trains. This enormous investment made the company dependent on continued ore traffic to earn the revenue, and left the railway vulnerable to loss of that ore-carrying business.

As well, passenger traffic on the WP&YR was increasing as cruise ships started to visit Alaska's Inner Passage. There was no road from Skagway to Whitehorse until 1978. Even once the road was built, the White Pass still survived on the ore traffic from the mines.

During this time, the green-yellow engine colour scheme, with a thunderbird on the front, was replaced with blue, patterned with black and white. The green-yellow scheme was restored in the early 1990s, along with the thunderbird. As of 2005, however, one engine still has the blue colour scheme. The steam engines, however, remain basic black.

In 1982, however, metal prices plunged, and that had a devastating effect on the mines who were the White Pass & Yukon Route's main customers. Many, including the Faro lead-zinc mine, closed down, and with that traffic gone, the White Pass was doomed as a commercial railroad. Hopeful of a reopening, the railway ran at a significant loss for several months, carrying only passengers. However, the railway closed down on October 7, 1982.

Some of the road's Alco diesels were sold to a railroad in Colombia, and the newer Alco diesels on order with Alco's Canadian licensee MLW (Montreal Locomotive Works) were sold to US Gypsum in Plaster City, California. Only one of these modern narrow gauge diesels, the last narrow gauge diesel locomotives built for a North American customer, was delivered to the White Pass. The five diesels sold to Columbia were not used as they were too heavy, and were re-acquired in 1999.

Revival, 1988-present


White Pass steam locomotive rounds a curve, with dramatic scenery reflected in the windows. (GNU Free Documentation)

The shutdown, however, was not for long. Tourism to Alaska began to increase, with many cruise ships stopping at Skagway. The dramatic scenery of the White Pass' route sounded like a great tourist draw; and the rails of the White Pass & Yukon Route were laid right down to the docks, even along them, for the former freight and cruise ship traffic. Cruise operators, remembering the attraction of the little mountain climbing trains to their passengers, pushed for a re-opening of the line as a heritage railway. The White Pass was and is perfectly positioned to sell a railroad ride through the mountains to cruise ship tourists; they don't even have to walk far.

The White Pass Route was reopened between Skagway and White Pass in 1988 purely for tourist passenger traffic. The White Pass Route also bid on the ore-haul from the newly reopened Faro mine, but its price was considerably higher than road haulage over the Klondike Highway.

The railway still uses vintage parlor cars, the oldest built in 1883 and predating WP&YR by 15 years, and eight new cars built in 2005 follow the same 19th century design. At least three cars have wheelchair lifts.

A work train actually reached Whitehorse in late August, 1988, its intent being to haul two locomotives, parked in Whitehorse for six years, to Skagway to be overhauled and used on the tourist trains. While in Whitehorse for approximately one week, it hauled the parked rolling stock - flatcars, tankers and a caboose - out of the downtown area's sidings, and the following year, they were hauled further south, many eventually sold. Most of the tracks in downtown Whitehorse have now been torn up, and the line's terminus is six city blocks south of the old train depot at First Avenue and Main Street. A single new track along the waterfront enables the operation, by a local historical society, of a tram for tourist purposes.

After customs issues were resolved, the WP&YR main line reopened to Fraser in 1989, and Bennett in 1992. A train reached Carcross in 1997 to participate in the Ton of Gold centennial celebration. A special run was made to Whitehorse on October 10, 1997, and there are plans to eventually re-open the entire line to Whitehorse. So far, the tracks are only certified to Bennett by the Canadian Transportation Agency.

WP&YR acquired some rolling stock from CN's Newfoundland operations, which shut down in November, 1988; the acquisition definitely included gravel cars, still painted in CN orange; it is uncertain if, as reported in 1989, some passenger cars such as dining cars were also acquired; since WP&YR does not use dining cars, they would have been converted to parlor cars in vintage design.

Most trains are hauled by the line's diesel locomotives, attractively painted in green (lower) and yellow (upper), but one of the line's original steam locomotives is still in operation too, #73, a 2-8-2 Mikado-type locomotive. Another steam locomotive was on loan, but has now been returned. Former WP&Y 69, a 2-8-0 has been acquired, is being rebuilt and is expected to be in use in 2005.

Also operational, a few times a year, is an original steam-powered rotary snowplow, an essential device in the line's commercial service days. While it is not needed as the tourist season is only in the summer months, it is a spectacle in operation, though, and the White Pass runs the steam plow for railfan groups once or twice a winter, pushed by two diesel locomotives (in 2000 only, it was pushed by two steam locomotives, #73 and the loan locomotive).

The centennial of the Golden Spike at Carcross was reenacted on July 29, 2000, complete with two steam engines meeting nose-to-nose, and a gold-coated steel spike being driven by a descendant of WP&YR contractor Michael Heney.

One organization chartered a steam-pulled train from Carcross to Fraser, with a stopover at Bennett, on Friday, June 24, 2005. When expected participants seemed unlikely to arrive in the planned numbers, surplus seats were sold to the public, 120 USD or 156 CAD, with bus return to Carcross from Fraser. This represents the first paid passenger trips out of Carcross since 1982.

References

• Lavallée, Omer (1972). Narrow Gauge Railways of Canada, pages 56–63,107–111, Montreal: Railfare Enterprises Limited. ISBN 0-919130-21-6.


Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.


The following is from the White Pass & Yukon Route Railway website:



Map of the White Pass & Yukon Route Railway



WPY historical Pix



WPY historical Pix



WPY historical Pix



WPY historical Pix



WPY historical display at Skagway Depot



WPY historical display at Skagway Depot



WPY historical Pix



WPY historical Pix



WPY historical Pix



WPY historical Pix



WPY historical Pix



WPY historical Pix



WPY historical Pix



WPY historical Pix


Enjoy![tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]



Waving flags credit: www.3DFlags.com

[coalminer3]

Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please; round for the hoiuse and $ for the jukebox.

Heavy frost this a.m. and some talk of snow tonight through Saturday - ah well - we shall see..................

Rob - My thoughts on all Nation were answered by a previous post.

Here are a few more r/b programs to add to your list.

ATSF - CF7 program
C&O (Chessie) r/b GP30's - this was before they turned some of them into road slugs.
The SP and CNW were all admirably covered in recent posts, of course.

The IC had a long tradition of rebuilding steam locomtives, so it was not that much of a reach to think abt. doing the same thing for diesels.

Here's a little more: IC 2400-2459 were 4-8-2s blt between 1923 and 1926. The IC ordered 2400-2414, and 2440-2459 from Schenectady in 1923 and 1926, IC 2415-2439 were blt. by Lima in 1925.

They also blt some of their own (2500-2555) at Paducah from 1937-1942. These were a little bigger and had a lot more tractive force than the first round of 4-8-2s.

The big r/b program occurred between 1944 and 1946 when they cycled most of the earlier 4-8-2s through the shops. The cylinder size of these later engines (in general) remained the same , but the steam pressure was increased substantially and this bumped the tractive effort up considerably. The numbers of the previous engines were scattered all over the lot, but the r/b 4-8-2 fell into three main series: 2300-2307, 2600-2619, and 2530-2532.

RDG was another big rebuilder. I remember older folks telling me that the RDG would "jack up the bell" and shove a new locomotive underneath.

Dave - Thanks for kicking Suydam forward in what's left my feeble little mind. They did, as others have suggested, lots of interurban stuff including locomotives(IIRC), trolleys, and related buildings. Most of their material had a distinct midwest look to it, especially the structures.

That brings another manufacturer forward - Selley. They did all kinds of detail parts; we'd think them fairly crude today, but they were the only game in town. They were in Philadelphia and I remember getting their catalogs. B&W line drawings with tiny type - pored over them for hours.

Peter; Triang-Hornby did N scales maybe you remember Graham Farrish? At least I think that was the name. A friend of mine (fellow N scaler) had a fair amount of their product done up in LMS livery and some in GWR as well.

Herewith some more material re a midsize road. A few more fallen falgs here. I'm sure many of you recall seeing thiar cars. I have a couple of models in my collection; one I did myself which has the old ACY "spiderweb" herald - one of the classiest logos ever. I also have a car with the "Serving Ohio and the Nation" which Kadee produced yrs ago.

Akron, Canton and Youngstown Railroad.
"Serving Ohio and the Nation."

Connections
Akron and Barberton Belt R.R. - East Akron, Fairlawn, OH
Baltimore and Ohio - Akron, Columbus Grive, Medina, Plymouth, OH
Chesapeake and Ohio - Carey, OH
Detroit, Toledo & Ironton - Columbus Grove
Erie-Lackawanna - Akron
Norfolk and Western - Bluffton, Chatfield, Delphos, OH
NYC (CCC&St L.) - Carey, New London, OH
NYC (OC) - Arlington, Sycamore, OH
PRR - Akron, Delphos, New Washington, OH
Wheeling and Lake Erie - Mogadore, Spencer, OH

I don't know if I'll be online tomorrow - depends on the schedule.

work safe

[siberianmo]

[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]


SOMETHING SPECIAL WILL BE POSTED TODAY!

Little Known Operating Railroads #1 will arrive on track #1 at 10 AM (Central) –

WATCH FOR IT!


Tom[4:-)] [oX)]


[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]

[siberianmo]

(courtesy: www.trainweb.org)

We open at 6 AM (all time zones!). (Don’t ask how we do that!)[swg]


THURSDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of POSTS


Thursday already! Great way to begin the day is right here with a cuppa Joe – some pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery and if you’re really hungry, try our <light> or <traditional> breakfasts from the Menu Board![tup]


Daily Wisdom

Every jackass thinks he’s got horse sense.[swg]


”Our” Place” ONE YEAR ANNIVERSARY CELEBRATION is Wednesday, April 12th!


Info for the Day:

Little Known Operating Railroads #1 arrives at 10 AM today!

Railroads from Yesteryear – Great Northern Railway (GN) arrives next Tuesday!

* Weekly Calendar:

TODAY: Fish ‘n Chips Nite!
Friday: Pizza Nite & Steak Nite!
Saturday: Steak ‘n Trimmin’s Nite! – and –
ENCORE! Saturday


SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 05:16:24 (282) Wednesday’s Info & Summary

(2) barndad Doug Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 05:27:13 (282) Pike Perspectives & joke

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 07:49:42 (282) Something Special Ad

(4) siberianmo Tom Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 10:35:04 (282) Pike Perspectives – 4 Pix

(5) pwolfe Pete Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 13:45:55 (283) Afternoon visit

(6) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 14:08:56 (283) Rare PM visit & Pike Perspectives!

(7) LoveDomes Lars Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 14:44:21 (283) The Lars Report!

(8) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 15:45:00 (283) Inclusive Daytime Post! etc.

(9) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 16:37:18 (283) Classic Diesels #12 – ICG Rebuilds

(10) West Coast S Dave Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 17:54:29 (283) Comments

(11) siberianmo Tom Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 19:08:50 (283) Acknowledgments & Comments

(12) pwolfe Pete Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 22:19:52 (283) Inclusive Post!

(13) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 22:38:55 (283) Inclusive Post!

(14) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 23:12:00 (283) Classic Diesels #13 – C&NW Rebuiilds



NOW SHOWING:

The Mentor Village Emporium Theatre
Double Features! Now with The Three Stooges Short Subject!

. . . Sunday, March 19th thru 25th: Midnight Run (1988) starring: Robert De Niro, Charles Grodin & Yaphet Kotto – and - The Greatest Show on Earth (1952) starring: Betty Hutton, Cornel Wilde & Charlton Heston. SHORT: Hello Pop (1933).


That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!



THINK April 12th –
The 1st year Anniversary of ”Our” Place!

[trolleyboy]

Okay since i'm on a bit of a roll ( I have the papers in front of me [:D] ) here's another, one to one scale locomotive kitbashing piece.

CLASSIC DIESELS # 13 C&NW REBUILD PROGRAM

The Chicago & North Western was alway's know as a frugal road, they would buy second hand and do as much in house rebuilding so as to keep the freight rolling and costs down. The C&NW started a rebuild program of their own at the Oelwein Iowa shops, the program was not intended as an upgrade program but as a life extension program ( low cost ) . rebuilt units retained their original GP7 or GP9 designation and power ratings. The distinction between rebuilt units and those just given a light overhaul and repainting was a matter of weather sheet metal work was included ( lowering of short hoods ).

Many of the GP7's were just given minor body works and paintjobs and therefore retained their as built high short hoods.( I have posted pictures of some of these as operated in the early 90's ) On all locomotives that went through this program, the dynamic brakes ( if originally installed ) were removed, some units recieved liberated exhaust manifolds. C&NW applied the "rebuilt' designation toonly the units it originally owned, not to those that were purchased second hand from Percision National. The purchased units did not count towards the capitol rebuild accounting so they recieved the least amount of work ( paint job , mechanical overhaul )In all C&NW "rebuilt" 73 GP7's and 52 GP9's which they counted as their capitol rebuild program.

The list below is from the C&NW records as of 1990,noted are the units that were bought second hand from PNC.

4100-4209 : ex rock Island GP7's
4252-4253 : C&NW GP7's exparamentally rebuilt with cummins HE15 engines
4279-4299 : rebuilt C&NW GP7's
4301-4309 : rebuilt C&NW GP9's
4310-4319 : rebuilt C&NW GP7's
4320-4326 : rebuilt C&NW GP9's
4327-4332 : rebuilt C&NW GP7's
4333 : rebuilt C&NW GP9
4334-4338 : rebuilt C&NW GP7's
4340-4358 : ex Quebec Northshore & Labrador GP7's
4359-4278 : ex Frisco GP7's
4379-4399 : ex Union Pacific GP7's
4431-4465 : all PNC units from Conrail,QN&SL,Frisco.C&O,and D&RGW GP7's
4466-4495 : rebuilt C&NW GP7's
4496-4499 : ex Union Pacific GP9's
4501-4504 : rebuilt C&NW GP9's
4505 : rebuilt C&NW GP7
4506-4513 : rebuilt C&NW GP9's
4514-4528 : ex QN&SL GP9's
4529-4549 : rebuilt C&NW GP9's
4550-4559 : ex Rock Island GP9's
4560-4562 : rebuilt C&NW GP9's

The gaps in the number series are lcomotives taken up by other rebuild programs alco's or other model EMD's

Rob

[trolleyboy]

Good evening Leon a round for pete and myself please and thank-you. yes I know you are happy to see me at night again ,<sheesh> Who hired these guys [?][swg]

Tom I will gladley, work two daysd out of seven so as to provide you some extra entertainment and interaction during the day. The only proviso would be that you cover half of my mortgage payments each month ! [:O][swg][:P]

You could probably sell all that crap / stuff treasure that you have saved,it's amazing as to who and what will but stuff at the RR fleamarkets !

I'm glad that you liked the latest classic,seems as though dave and Pete got a kick or two out of it as well.

Dave Hey nice to see you back , hopefully that stuff on the home front will simmer down for you. Loved the info on SP's rebuilding program [tup] BN , CN , CP and a few others also used to rebuild most of their solid first gen units as well. Of coarse now CN / CP and the rest tend to send their stuff outto the rebuilders as well. In the next couple of weeks I'm going to do a couple bits on some of the main rebuilders as well,keep an eye out for them. [tup]

Thanks for the info on All nation and the rest as well. to answer your question I have one Suydam barn kit ( haven't attempted it yet, bit above my skill level ) I've seen many a nice brass trolley car kit out and about in HO as well ( you would be amazed at how much has been and still is being made ) Most are beyond my price range however, I did manage to snag a double trucked Brill snowsweeper that MTS put out ten or so yeasr ago ( still paying for it on layaway ! )

Pete I seem to have the same luck picturewise as you lately, either no camera or too little light [sigh]. As the old saying goes it all comes to those who wait.

The locomotive re-building programs on both sides of the pond are tuff to get an accurate picture of. Espeacilly now as all the major rebuilders buy yup old worn out or wrecked units and remanufacture uses odd's and ends from god knows what anymore! Mind you the CN and CP rebuilds are basically all still with us as well. CN's Point Ste Cahrles shops rebuilt all their Gp9's to three subclasses of chopnosed units, Yard , Hump, and Light road use ( all power, control, and fuel rack settings ) other than the feww that have been wrecked beyond repair they are all still in use. CP as well did a major rebuilding of their GP9 fleets as well again chopnosed, they even rebuilt the best GP9's that were obtained from their merger of Soo Line ( that encompasses both Soo and Milwaukee road units ! )great info fer sure to attempt to digest. Like I sadi I am planning on doing a couple more Classic's on some of them as time permits.


Rob

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

A pint of Bathams please.

ROB I think TRI-ANG merged with Hornby who are still producing fine HO models.
In the late 50s/ early 60s Tri-ang brought out some N.American diesels of the F type which were popular in the UK. One car I had was a boxcar with a sponge underneath to which you added a solvent with the idea of it cleaning the track as the car was hauled round.

Thanks for the kit info and the Classic Diesel on the Re-builds a fascinating subject.
Brush in the UK has just completed a series of re-builds using the body work and frames of the 40 year old type 47s and refurbished GM power units. there are three sub-classes used by Frieghtliner Great Western and Virgin Trains, they are now designated class 57.

The part of locos changing identities in the works is often shown on preserved steam locos in the UK if the rods, valve gear axles etc.are examined they are often bear stamps of the various locos they have been used on.
In steam days it is said that the loco number was determined by the frames but with some classes of engines there were a spare set of frames,but even so some locos were thought to be better than others even after a major works overhaul.
As I say I find this an interesting subject [^].

Good to see you DAVE[tup] Great info on the kits and the SP Re-builds.

TOM. The bride had to go in to town this evening and while she was busy there I had a walk down to the Amtrak station on the goods line there was two frieght cars with BC RAIL on them. They looked familiar and they were on a photo on your B.C. Rail post on page 262 near the top. of course I had not got the camera with me [D)][|(] and the light was fading. I was wondering what goods they carried, these were unloaded like the car in the photo and the reason for them being so far from the home line.
Without Our Place I probably have though that BC Rail was a leasing company and not British Columbia[tup] PETE.

[siberianmo]

Good Evening!

Another interesting day at the “Feast or Famine Bar ‘n Grill!”

For those who have noted, I didn’t make any morning comments, aside from those in the SUMMARY. Reason[?] Was waiting to see whether I’d be talking to myself! And for awhile, it appeared that way, eh[?][swg]

Doug provided us with some great stuff at about 5:30 AM and then it was a rather long drought until we heard from Pete around 1:45 PM. CM3 – Lars – Rob (twice) ‘n Dave filled out the mid to late afternoon. So, all in all, it wasn’t a bad day – just one of those unpredictable Wednesdays!

It was rather “odd” having our West Virginia connection, CM3, show up in the afternoon – we’re certainly not accustomed to that! However, it was worth the wait as another quality Post was provided.[tup][tup]

Appreciate the contributions from those of you in support of “Pike Perspective’s Day!” One thing I’d like to clarify is: this is NOT a “theme,” just something to jump on IF you are so inclined. No pressure – no urgency, just a day of the week set aside for those wanting to Post about model or toy railroading. So, for anyone out there feeling like you’ve fallen short – forget it![tup]

Doug I enjoyed that Lionel article – something to relate to from long ago. I think my first trainset arrived at Christmas of 1948 – but it could have been 1947 – either way, pretty close to the date of the article. Good stuff![tup]

Pete Always enjoy your sense of humor – and the “eye” for details! Atomic energy, indeed![swg] Thanx for the round![tup]

CM3 I never got “into” model building very much, so kits and the like were not part of my repertoire of childhood model railroading. I should really call it what it was – they weren’t models, they were toy trains, plain ‘n simple. Now, there were supporting items – buildings and the like – that required assembly. The original Plasticville “stuff” was about as hard as it got for me. And of course – Thanx for the round and more quarters for Coal Scuttle![swg]

Lars That’s an interesting approach you’ve come up with for our April 12th 1st year anniversary. Tell you what I’ll do – I’ll put together the “A” list and ship to you by E-mail – then you can take it from there if you wish.[tup]

Rob Two late afternoon Posts![wow] We need to get you into a more “civil” routine – ya know, work one day, off two, work another, off three. Think you could handle that[?][swg] All of the flyers and catalogs from my Lionel days are long gone. However, I have several file cabinet drawers full of HO “stuff” from Tyco, Athearn, and a “bunch” of retailers dating back to the mid-60s. No doubt that “someone” would love to have this “crap!” Isn’t that the way[?] I keep it, but for the life of me don’t know why![swg] And YES – it looks like a “natural” stop for us in May![tup] Trains ‘n beer – great combination, as long as we’re not “driving!”[swg]

Nice “Classic” by the by![tup]

Dave Running out of things to say, Mate – ya know, like [#welcome] back! Been there, done that many, many times. So, let’s just say, hope you can get through the SUMMARIES and “special events.” The pages keep rolling on . . . Always good to see ya, even if you failed to order something from the bar!!! A Tweetable offense – HOWEVER – in light of your past generosity at the bar, we’ll let it go – this time![swg] P.S. "Editing" your Post doesn't change a thing!!<grin>


Repeated:SOME PIX ARE NEEDED! If anyone would like some of their RR Pix Posted this Sunday, send them to me by Email attachments (no more than 4 at a time, please). Really running low on material for Sunday Photo Posting Day! THANX!

Leon the Night Man takes the bar at 9 PM (Central)!


Later![tup]


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


THINK April 12th –
The 1st year Anniversary of ”Our” Place!

[West Coast S]

Hello again Tom and the gang...I have returned, did you miss me? One week at my place in Nevada was just what I needed, Well, lots going on, the Feds offered me serious money for 16 months of service in Iraq.. I got that funny feeling again!!!

Ok I confess to not being up to speed, Too distracted with school and the wife threating a divorce, always good to return home to drama!!!

Rob...All Nation was the leader among early O scale Kits, to call them kits is to do a diservice to the industry, one still had to machine, tap-thread, fill poor castings and other primitive skills.
When done right by a skilled modeler they were a work of art however.

I have about twenty Ye' Ole Huff and Puff reefer kits to put together, these are of wood construction with Zimac details as done forty years ago, I do enjoy updating these with better castings to make them on par with more recent kit standards.

The All National equivelent in S was Rex, I own one such kit from the late 40's it's so primitive I'll keep it as a example of how much steam loco kits have improved. I also have several Rex dicast box cars, these are not too bad, need rivet detail and new door details but are acceptable to me, too bad they don't fit my era, so they likely will never see the light of day.


Ok Rob, how many Syddum models do you have hidden away? If i'd kept my collection they be worth more then my 401K. They were the premire importer of PE, SN and other trolley lines in the 60's and an example of early brass, never had one that ran worth a darn but they sure were accurate in the details.


How did I forget to order a round? Better late then never as they say!!!

The SP also undertook a rebuild program known as GRIP for general rebuild and improvement, this was a methodical process as only the cream of 1st gen units were included, all 247 SD7/9 and all 324 GP9's, GP20's,30's were so rebuilt, units deemed soon to be retired were excluded including the 700 plus F unit fleet, most Alco,FM and Baldwin freight units ands assorted odds and ends.

Overtime, second gen units such as SD40's,45's and Tunnel Motors were added to the program. The program commenced in 1959 and continued until 1983, over those ensuing years SP applied home designed air filtration packages that could be easily applied in the field, spark arrestors, improvements in maintaince procedures, cab improvements, turbocharger upgrades and hundreds of other upgrades, large and small. The Houston shops in turn, rebuilt hundreds of EMD switchers with new cab control features, light packages and a complete power plant, electrical upgrades. These were deemed too expensive overtime compared with new purchases (MP15 AC/DC) and the switcher conversion program was eventually abolished.

The primary shop was the vast Roseville facility which used assembly line techniques to convert twelve units a shift. As per SP practice all rebuilt units recieved new model desginations and new numbers.

Later, SP would shun rebuilding programs, Sending fleets of SD40's,45's and Tunnel Motors to independent rebuilders was the system policy towards the end, perhaps disposing of the Roseville property had something to do with this radical shift in policy.


Dave

[trolleyboy]

Here's a bit of new info from the trolleyboy barn.[;)][8D] It's kind of in keeping with today's modelling theme,consider this as 1 to 1 scale kitbashing. As alot of us know, the various railways over the years have done alot of "capitol rebuilding" of older locomotives to : A get more life out of usefull locomotives thus avoiding expensive repurchasing of new power. & B to get tax breaks on locomotives already purchased, by rebuilding and essentially remanufactureing they can claim the costs lioek they can on new purchases. One of the biggest locomotive rebuilders in a railway owned shop was of coarse IIlinois Central's massive Paducah shops rebuuilding'sof geeps and switchers and some early SD's


CLASSIC DIESELS # 12 THE ICG REBUILDS

IC's capitol rebuild program, carried out at the Paducah shops in Kentucky was a pioneer program.They were the first railroad to create and run such a program, and on such a massive scale.It encompassed early GP type locomotives ( some purchased from other railroads ). GP7's were rebuilt and redesignated GP8's , GP9's as rebuilt were refered to as GP10's This program began in early 1968 with the program ending in 1981 ! The first locomotives outshopped were GP8 7960 and GP10 8109. Thes two and GP10's 8009,8025,&8082 retained their high shorthoods.The first chopnosed unit GP8 7961 came ot of the shop in march of 1968 and all further rebuilds received the chopped shorthoods.

The rebuilding, saw complete strip downs to the frame sandblasting and repairs and a full repair and refurbishment of the 567 primemovers,new airfilters and electronic's etc. During 1968 there was a flirtation with uprating the horsepower of all the units to 2000hp but they weren't highly sucessfull so all wer rerated to 1600hp uop from the as built 1500 for the GP8's and 1850hp up from the 1750 asbuilt on the GP10 rebuilds. GP8's 7957,7964,7966,7977 and 7981 were the 2000hp GP8 exparament. GP10's 8004,8025,8072,8082,8158,and 8233 were the 2000hp GP10's all the 2000hp conversions were downgraded to 1850 hp in 1969 as it was found that the maintenance was easier than the turbocharged 2000hp format.

The ICG rebuuilding program added paper airfilters mounted in a distintive roof top box ( horsecaller ) and all the units recieved a liberated 4 stack exhaust manifolds ( both spotting features of the rebuilds ) The ICG also removed the dynamic braking and it's assosiated roof top blister omn units rebuilt for their own use,none of the IC's locomotives were bought with dynamic brakes but units purchased second hand were,this was again done for ease of maintenance and uniformity of spare parts,that and the units mostly held down secondary road jobs and yard and transfer work so it was felt that the dynamic braking was not required ( also cheaper less parts less maintenance )

The ICG was so pleased with it's shops work on their own engines that they decided that they would go into the business of upgrading locmotives for other railroads. IC set up a partnership with Persision National corp (PNC) in which they did joint venture rebuilding at both Paducah and at PNC's Mount Vernon ILL. shop.At the same time IC began to work with PNC to obtain secondhand GP7's and GP9's to rebuild and add to thier own roster of the total locomotives IC rostered 59 of the GP8's and 60 of the GP10's came from other railways.

It's difficult to track the parantage of many of the rebuilds as so many wer being worked on at the same time in both shops,parts and components and frames were redily swapped.An example would be ICG GP10 8270. It was outshopped in december of 1971, it was built from the frame of wrecked Boston and Maine GP9 1710,but it used the engine and components of a wrecked Suthern Pacific 3516. This is typical of this program,some locomotives may have parts from 3 or 4 other's plus new parts bought from EMD or GMD !

When IC and Gulf Mobile and Ohio merged to become ICG it had no effect on the rebuilding program. In fact ICG concidered using The GM&O's Iselin Ten shop as an extra shop, however it was decided to do the actual rebuilding just at Paducah.

Railroads that donated the raw materials for the program were as follows : DT&I ,Pittsburg & Lake Erie, Reading , Frisco , Quebec Northshore & Labrador , C&O , B & O , Boston & Maine , D&RGW , Clinchfield , Florida East Coast ,and Union Pacific. This influx of "new" powerv allowed the ICG to handle the traffic growth of the merged railroad and retire all the old Alco power they inherrited from the GM&O. after the program was terminated in 1981 the Paducah shop was sold to the Paducah and Louisville Railway, whose subsidiary VMV Enterprises operates it as a locomotive rebuilding shop still today.


Rob

[trolleyboy]

Good afternoon Tom and the gang,no Boris not the mentor track gang <sheesh>It's me day off after the three midnight shifts,so i will take a Keith's oh and Boris if I doze off just leave me be for a half hour or so thankx [tup][:O]


Doug and Tom hey again some nice info on AF and Lionel. I must admit I feel a bit out of the loop on both manufactures,unlike alot of the modelling world I jumped in at HO and stayed there.Still nice to see those nostalgic ophoto's aand reproductions of the old catalogue covers. I was absolutly shocked [:o] by the prices of those catalogues that I have seen at the last few local train shows.[tdn] Seems like it's not just the classic rolling stock and locomotives that fetch amazing prices,but I was seeing those very catalogues going for around fifty bucks. I shoulda kept my old walther's catalogues[:P] !

CM3 Hey nice info on some of the other old and in somecases gone kit manufacturer's. Now I see that the all nation kits you had (have) were metal and wood.Were all their products like that or was there an all brass lione from them as well[?] I seem to have read something in the hobby presses years back on all nation brass kits.

I've dabbled with the odd campbell kit none of their buildings but windows roofing material and cyclone vents etc, have made it into some kitbashing projects I did for a club I once belonged too. I seem to remember helping one fellow glue the nut / bolt / washer castings on a tressel he had scratched from northeastern lumber. This guy was quite the character ( bit anal actually ) he insisted upon superdetailing all the joints on the tressel even the ones burried in scenery with the NBW's. [:O] Something like 200 stes of NBW's were bought for that bridge.


Lars Hey nice to see you this aft as well. Good that your collection has seemingly come throuhg the "great flood" seemingly unscathed [^ Those old loco's will likely be fine,likely will need a cleaning and lubing but they were built tough.

Great idea on the email thing,it may just work at least on some of the A list.

Pete Tri-ang another manufacture that I know little off,what I have seen at shows looks quite nice, and detailed however ( maybe this is just the modern stuff ). I've never much liked the smoke equiped locomotives either,[tdn] I remember having an old bachman 0-4-0 with a smoke unit ( down the stack stuff as well ) What an awfull smell and the residue left behind after it would settle, talk about tarnishing the trackwork,on the upside it made for some "real" looking weathering though mom didn't like what it did to the rec room curtains [:O] The new fandangled sound equiped stuff doesn't do anything for me either,I don't know just too much IMHO.

Sad to here about those Midland shops [tdn][sigh] Price of progress i suppose,I imagine that if it's anything like here they will build a fine strip mall and some tract houses where the shops once stood.[tdn] It tis good that the roundhouse was saved,not many of those critters left in Ontario ( too many "insurance fires" ) One notable is the CPR John street roundhouse by Union station,it's still there , a rail musuem occupies about half the stalls, the other half contains steam whistle brewery [tup][tup][:D] Good to know about for May eh Tom [?]


Rob

[LoveDomes]

G’day Tom and fellow travelers at the bar!

A Pike Perspectives Day and I’m without so much as a pike much less anything of interest. I think the well has run dry for me, at least for awhile regarding model railroading.

We are a “Classic Trains” thread, after all – real trains first![swg] No knock on the posts featuring the model and toy trains, just that I’m on empty! [:(]

Today I’ll skip the hero and get right to the cold beer – some bar snacks should do. I like those fresh, crunchy pretzels and I see the popcorn machine looks full. That’s a “neat” looking device you’ve got, who ripped it off from the Emporium[?][swg]

I see that there’s been a bit of activity over on your “other thread,” even 20 Fingers has made an appearance. If anyone likes the Southern Pacific, take a peek. Good stuff![tup]

Thanks for the comments regarding my contributions to the “theme” of yesterday. Appreciate it![tup]

Those Lionel & American Flyer catalogs really bring back the memories you had hoped would resurface! I too used to collect those catalogs from the toy stores (that’s what I recall we called ‘em) and they were free. If I recall correctly, both Lionel and Gilbert came out with a few during the year, just subtle differences inside, but they were always in demand. Today, these things are being sold at a “premium” on eBay and the other “auction” sites. Amazing what some people will pay for other people’s discards. Kinda reminds me of garage scales, but with a middle man.

Anyway, just looking at those covers reminded me to tell you that my electric trains escaped the damages of our basement flood. However, I’m still hoping that the dampness down there hasn’t screwed up the ‘works.’ I’ll know that once I get my stern section in gear and start putting together my RRs – one Lionel, one AF. As I posted some pages ago, I have two sets of each, but never really had anything resembling a layout. Situational toys, more or less. But I always enjoyed running ‘em – just like you do, Tom with that S-Capades of yours.[tup]

No Coalminer “what’s his face’ today[?] Now THAT’s hard to accept! The guy is a fixture ‘round here with his morning posts. Must be trying to impress the boss, huh[?][swg] Ooooooooops, as I live ‘n breath – there he IS! An afternoon missive! Awwwwwwwright, mate! Good to see ya. Dentist, huh[?] Don’t get me started with the Doctors, Dentists, and Pharmacies, for the three of ‘em are about to put us under.

Doug I finally got around to answering your email! For one and all, you should know this upfront – I’m terrible at checking my email account(s) . . . just don’t think about doing it. So, for those who are trying to communicate with me, have patience, I’ll get a roundtuit![swg]

One of your recent jokes got a grin out of me . . . no “guffaw” mind you, but a grin! Don’t want to tell you which one, otherwise you’ll probably post it again (and again!)[swg]

Tom are you serious[?] ANOTHER series to begin tomorrow[?] Obviously I’ll be waitin’ for it – but, mate – you gotta ease up.[tup]

G’day Pete! An early afternoon for you too, huh[?] Yes, it was me who sent those “kind words” your way, and what did you do[?] “Credited” my “bookend!” A guy with an eye for detail – atomic energy![swg] Good one![tup]


A word on the April 12th gala (if there is to be one!). Why not have each of “us” send an email to one of the guys who “used to be” and see if we can’t get them to stop by on the 1st year anniversary[?] Of course this would mean COMMITMENT from “us” and you, Tom would have to provide the “list” to work from. I suggest that once the “list” gets posted, we begin in earnest. It would be sorta like those “matching” quiz questions we used to get in school. List “A” would be the “used to be’s” and List “B” the “us” guys. Kinda make it simple – first guy on list B communicates with the first guy on List A and so on . . . Just a thought. And of course, it’s no big strain finding the email address – just use the “member” feature (make sure you are logged in) and take it from there by sending the email through the forums.


“Hit me” again on the brew and I’ll just hang out a bit . . . . here’s a ten spot to take care of Pete ‘n “what’s his face!”[swg]


Until the next time!

Lars

[coalminer3]

Good Afternoon Barkeep and All Preset; coffee, please; round for the house; $ for the jukebox. Yes, I know it's afternoon, but today was take the huns to the dentist (my wallet just took one in the engine room!)

Lots of good D&RGW material yesterday
Thanks to:
Budd Kar – for D&RGW ads – amazing what folks could do with b&w copy back in the day
Passengerfan – for car information
Lars – pictures
Also thanks for stories

The postwar Lionel material was fascinating. I don’t believe the control system ever got too far; at least I don’t remember seeing it anywhere. I did wire my layout for block control for signals, which was a little tedious, but it looked good, especially with the room lights out as our ‘steamed proprietor mentioned awhile back. Yes, I did have a ZW transformer but I shoveled a lot of driveways to get it...

The catalog pictures brought back memories as well.

This led me to think about some other things related to model railroads, especially kit manufacturers (maybe it was because I saw Boris inhaling the last of the old Strombecker glue I found in the basement.)

I have built models in just about any scale over the years (except for TT, probably because I never had the opportunity). This includes a fair amount of scratch building and kits. I model in N scale now as most of you know, with a time period from abt 1955-1960; got to have a way to run the steam power, you know.

Anyway, one manufacturer I remember is All Nation. I built more than a few of their O scale cars. These kits were like building real freight cars as they had a wooden floor wooden ends, wooden roof. Sides were metal and beautifully painted and lettered. I have a Nickel Plate box car I built years ago which I’ll stack up against anything that’s out there today. The builder had to set up the floor, ends and roof (make sure they’re square) and nail the car sides to the frame. Other appliances such as ladders were attached separately. IIRC, steps were formed from wire and attached. There really wasn’t much to the underbody except a casting to represent the air reservoir. The roof was metal over wood. The modeler then cut and attached pieces of channel to the roof to represent the roof ribs (braces if you’re not from here.) The channels had to be painted to match the color of the car roof. Then the roof walk was nailed on – again you had to be careful to center this or it looked like h!@#. I mentioned the underbody. Another piece of channel ran down the middle of the underside of the floor to allow attachment of trucks. Again, take care with drawing and locating pilot holes for the truck pins - if you didn't the car "crabbed" along the tracks. The trucks were not the best in the world, but they did o.k. Couplers were body mounted and clunky castings; but again, they were the best available at the time.

Now let’s turn to one other name – Ambroid. They had all sorts of kits. The ones I recall doing most were of passenger cars which closely resembled the old wooden cars on the B&M. I built, over the years, a bunch of these for different folks. Never kept one for myself though. They offered a coach and a combine which, with a little patience built up into a nice looking model. They also did some freight car kits as well. I have some of these - unopened - but for the life of me can't remember what they are.

I’ll close with one other – Campbell; I’m not talking abt. the current offerings, but the older ones. Again, I got my chops busted for using mom’s scissors to cut corrugated metal pieces for roofing on one of their kits. I know the working definition of insanity - doing the same thing over and over again thinking the result will be different.

Work safe

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

A pint of the usual and a round please.

DOUG Another great piece from the Railroad Magazine [tup]. The model locos that smoked arrived a lot later in the UK I my memory is correct.
One of the first was TRI-ANG's Britannia 4-6-2, it was produced by putting a liquid down the stack it used to smell awful. My pal at the time had one on his great layout which was his older brother,s who became a steam stoker working from the local depot.

Great catalog covers TOM. I used to get the catalogs although there was little chance of getting what was inside [:(].
Liked the pics of the Erector on the American Flyer although I am a little worried about the Atomic Energy on the last catalog[:-^].
Looking forward to the Little Known Railroads tomorrow[tup]. PETE.

[siberianmo]

G’day!

It’s Pike Perspective’s Day! at ”Our” Place! Here’s a little something to perhaps rekindle some interest in the “Classic Toy Trains” that many of us recall from those childhood days of long ago. If you were like any of the guys I knew back then, these are the things dreams were made of:


1948 Lionel catalog



1949 Lionel catalog



1949 A C Gilbert catalog



1951 A C Gilbert catalog



Enjoy![tup]


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]


SOMETHING SPECIAL WILL BE POSTED TOMORROW!

Little Known Operating Railroads #1 will arrive on track #1 at 10 AM (Central) –

WATCH FOR IT!


Tom[4:-)] [oX)]


[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]

[Anonymous]

Good morning Tom and all! I'll have two light breakfasts please. Sure glad we missed the winter storm that hit south of here, as I am more than ready for the end of winter. Here's my Pike piece for this morning:

From the pages of Sep. 1946 Railroad Magazine

Drop a pill in her stack and Lionel’s new Hudson model spumes smoke. It’s just one of the many features of electronic railroading


Christmas 1946 will have added significance for war-starved tin-platers. Not only will the old standbys be on the market again – the locomotives, passenger and freight cars, and auxiliary coal hoppers, magnet cranes, log-loaders and drawbridges – but Lionel has announced two discoveries which may usher in a new era in model railroading. By December, the smoke-puffing locomotives and electrically-controlled trains now wheeling round the curves in Lionel’s triple track will be ready in numbers to meet all demands of present and would-be operators of O-Gage.

In their plant at Irvington, N.J., attention has been drawn away from the manufacture of other gages to put pressure on O-Gage tinplate, standard for Lionel. It will be at least another year before OO and O27 scale is cast and assembled again. This way, the company will be able to concentrate on its bestsellers for the Christmas rush, sidestepping the problem of gradual conversion by turning its million-dollar weapon and instrument assembly line into full production of model trains.

While newcomers may be startled by these two inventions, neither is an overnight discovery. Operation smoke cost Lionel $17,000 and five years of experimentation, since it demanded a compound which would be both harmless and stainless. In the early days, their chemist thought the formula could be easily reached. Yet his first combinations had the unhappy faculty of varying between powders which gave off deadly fumes when changed to smoke, and those that exploded when compressed into pellets. His finished product, however, is something which Lionel can well brag about. Somewhat smaller than an aspirin, it is odorless and nonpoisonous, and disintegrates without leaving any residue.

A single pill is good for about four hours; inserting two, we’re told, will add nothing to the density of the smoke. The pill is dropped into the smokestack of the engine before the current is turned on. There, a specially-designed General Electric light bulb generates just the right amount of warmth to make it smoke. Then when the engine moves forward, a small flutter valve underneath the locomotive admits air and smoke puffs out the stack. Down the track she goes, trailing a white plume whose airlines would make the most conscientious foreman proud.

Yet though smoke may provide the best propaganda for selling the postwar trains, the hubbub among technical enthusiasts who gather around the Lionel setup is caused by the company’s second scoop of the year: electronic control. By means of a small control box, it is now possible to make one, two, or more trains go forward or reverse independently of one another at any point of the track, and to operate mechanisms along the right-of-way. Formerly, the train had to be standing on a special section of track to uncouple or couple the cars. Now, y pressing a button on the controller – and there is housing for ten – operations can be made anywhere in the circuit, whether the train is in motion or standing still.

A transmitter and a fixed number of receivers, which latter are activated by the radiation of medium radio frequency waves, are basic parts of the system. Two leads from the model’s regular transformer lead to the track. These are the only necessary connections. The transmitter, containing but one standard radio tube, generates frequency waves, superimposing them on the power carrier.

The impulses sent into the cars are picked up by miniature receivers incorporated in the body or attached to the underframe of each car of the train. Every receiver is pretuned to one of ten frequencies radiated from the transmitter, and responds to the touch of the corresponding push button on the panel. A colored marker on the side of each car or mechanism identifies it with the correct indicator. Uncoupling a train from end to end is now a simple matter.

Master transmitter checks the uniformity of frequency controls before locomotives are shipped from Irvington, N.J. plant


Lionel’s plans for the future include a practical guarantee that its prewar models will not become obsolete because of this fundamental change. Provisions have been made to locate stations in every section of the country, where locomotives – built originally for $46 and up – can be converted at a nominal cost. This service will not be available until next year, and the extent to which this will affect the average model enthusiast is still conjecture. If production costs can be slashed, however, electronic control might be as common within a decade as bending switches by remote control is today.

Plugging in the receiver. Lionel engineer displays underframe of tanker, where car’s electronic receiver will be attached. A similar mechanism controls locomotive reversing.


Overshadowed by the firm’s two major innovations is the extended use of plastics in car construction. Research on plastics in car construction. Research on plastics begun before the war, has been so successful that plastic has superseded metal as building material for molded passenger and freight cars. Its light weight and in=grain colors are unparalleled in metalwork of comparable cost and these models are durable enough to last forever given proper handling. Under present schedules, all equipment will be plastic, except for engines and tenders which are die cast or metal.

One novelty attracting great attention is Lionel’s new water tower, operated on the electronic control circuit. As a tender is spotted under it, the operator presses a control button and the spout moves over the manhole. With a grinding of gears, the water mark drops in the tank as the tender is supposedly filled. The secret of where the ink-stained water goes is simple, yet not so obvious. It is drawn up through an inner cylinder, then poured back into the outer receptacle.

Five years of military service has not caught Lionel unprepared for the boom market. By Christmas, miniature trains will be available in large numbers.

[:I] One day a blonde was riding on an airplane. There was a loud noise that came from outside the plane. The captain came on the intercom, "Attention passengers, we just lost one of our engines; but don't worry, the other three engines will keep us up. Also, we will arrive at our destination about an hour behind schedule."
Half an hour later, another loud noise sounded from outside the plane. The captain once again came on the intercom, "Attention passengers, do not be alarmed. We lost another engine, but the other two will still keep us flying. We will arrive at our destination about three hours late."
After the captain said this, the blonde leaned over to the passenger next to him and said, "If those other two engines go out, we'll be up here forever." [:I]

[siberianmo]

(courtesy: www.trainweb.org)

We open at 6 AM (all time zones!). (Don’t ask how we do that!)[swg]


WEDNESDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of POSTS


Wednesday is here! Great way to begin the day is right here with a cuppa Joe – some pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery and if you’re really hungry, try our <light> or <traditional> breakfasts from the Menu Board![tup]


Daily Wisdom

If you wake up feelin’ halfway ‘tween “Oh Lord,” and “My God,” you overdid it![swg]


”Our” Place” ONE YEAR ANNIVERSARY CELEBRATION is Wednesday, April 12th!


Info for the Day:

Railroads from Yesteryear – Great Northern Railway (GN) arrives next Tuesday!

* Weekly Calendar:

TODAY: Pike Perspective’s Day!
Thursday: Fish ‘n Chips Nite!
Friday: Pizza Nite & Steak Nite!
Saturday: Steak ‘n Trimmin’s Nite! – and –
ENCORE! Saturday


SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 21 Mar 2006, 05:17:48 (282) Tuesday’s Info & Summary

(2) barndad Doug Posted: 21 Mar 2006, 05:56:10 (282) Theme for the Day – D&RG, etc. & joke

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 21 Mar 2006, 07:30:37 (282) RRs from Yesteryear – D&RG

(4) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 21 Mar 2006, 08:15:00 (282) Theme for the Day – D&RG, etc.

(5) siberianmo Tom Posted: 21 Mar 2006, 12:29:10 (282) Acknowledgments & Theme for the Day!

(6) BudKarr BK Posted: 21 Mar 2006, 13:06:29 (282) BK Report & Theme for the Day Posters!

(7) passengerfan Al Posted: 21 Mar 2006, 13:17:08 (282) Theme for the Day! Streamlined Sleeping cars

(8) LoveDomes Lars Posted: 21 Mar 2006, 14:52:29 (282) Theme for the Day Pix! & Inclusive Post!

(9) pwolfe Pete Posted: 21 Mar 2006, 15:45:34 (282) PM Post

(10) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 21 Mar 2006, 17:01:20 (282) Inclusive Post, etc.

(11) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 21 Mar 2006, 18:50:17 (282) Theme for the Day!


(12) siberianmo Tom Posted: 21 Mar 2006, 18:56:40 (282) Acknowledgments, etc.

(13) siberianmo Tom Posted: 21 Mar 2006, 19:04:40 (282) reply to trolleyboy

(14) barndad Doug Posted: 21 Mar 2006, 21:16:18 (282) Theme for the Day, Inclusive Post & joke

(15) pwolfe Pete Posted: 21 Mar 2006, 22:59:46 (282) PM Post



NOW SHOWING:

The Mentor Village Emporium Theatre
Double Features! Now with The Three Stooges Short Subject!

. . . Sunday, March 19th thru 25th: Midnight Run (1988) starring: Robert De Niro, Charles Grodin & Yaphet Kotto – and - The Greatest Show on Earth (1952) starring: Betty Hutton, Cornel Wilde & Charlton Heston. SHORT: Hello Pop (1933).


That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!



THINK April 12th –
The 1st year Anniversary of ”Our” Place!

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

A Bathams as a nightcap please and a drink for anyone who calls in[tup].

ROB Thanks for the info on the Michigan shops I'm glad they are being saved and will be open to the public.
One famous loco works has not been so lucky.
I was reading today that nearly all of the Midland Railway (of England) locomotive works in DERBY has been demolished. It opened in 1839 and built nearly 3000 steam locos. the first British main line diesel locos were also built there, although new build finished there in 1978. One bit of good news is that the 1839 North Midland Railway roundhouse has been saved.

Interesting list on the DRGW locos. I have not seen a Rio Grande liveried loco through here for quite a while now. I will check my notes to see what classes they were with help from your list. [tup].
Enjoy Heather's birthday dinner tomorrow[bday][yeah].

DOUG Thanks for the D&RG stories, those Railroad Stories articles are wonderful[^].

Well TOM an excellent day at the bar many thanks[tup][tup][tup]. PETE.

[Anonymous]

Good evening Tom and friends. I'll have a bottomless draught, and of course buy a round for the house after this very successful theme day! Great work on the Wikipedia article Mr. Tom. CM3 put in theme related material, BK provided adds, Al put in a streamliner, Lars submitted dome pix, Peter shared some memories and Rob provided stats! [wow] Great job guys! Here's another little blurb from me:

From the pages of Mar. 1936 Railroad Stories

The D&RG baby shown here is probably the only engine which stopped herself by burying her drivers in silver.


In my many years as boomer machinist and big hook engineer, the strangest wreck I ever saw was on the D&RG. I was general foreman at Chama, N.M.. One night I got an order to take the wrecker gang to Lumberton. There we found a passenger engine in a box car. The roof was knocked off, but the sides were still standing.

This engine had split the switch and taken the siding, on which stood a string of freight. Pony truck and tender stayed on the rails, but the engine plower for 4 ft. into a carload of silver and lead, which may give an idea of its speed. Nobody hurt. We moved the car 100 yds. To a crossing and then rerailed the engine. – W.D. Adamson

[:I] After she woke up, a woman told her husband, "I just dreamed that you gave me a pearl necklace for Valentine's day. What do you think it means?"
"You'll know tonight." he said. That evening, the man came home with a small package and gave it to his wife. Delighted, she opened it - to find a book entitled "The Meaning of Dreams." [:I]

[siberianmo]

Hey Rob!

Snuck that one in on me, eh[?][swg]

That's quite an impressive list of motive power, would never have guessed as much. Always an educational experience when you and several others take the time and make the effort to contribute relevant material![tup][tup][tup]

Later!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]


THINK April 12th –
The 1st year Anniversary of ”Our” Place!

[siberianmo]

Good Evening!

Another interesting day at the “Feast or Famine Bar ‘n Grill!”

Today’s “theme” was well received and I’m surprised and most pleased with the responses![tup][tup][tup] Looks like you ganged up on me just to show me you COULD![swg]

Beginning early this AM with Doug then followed by CM3 it was indeed a good start! Surprise of surprises when 20 Fingers Al showed up with his contribution![tup] More pleasant surprise with not only the return of BK but an appearance with RR Posters as well![tup] Then along came Lars with an afternoon epistle chock full of all kinds of “good stuff!”

Appreciate seeing Pete and may I offer that I think it was Lars who layed those nice words on you!

Finally, another daylight Post from Rob – this could be habit-forming, but alas – we all know it isn’t going to be. Nocturnal Rob will be doing his “midnight ramble” before too long![swg]

When April 12th rolls around, I sincerely hope we’ll see a familiar “face” from the past. Our former regulars and stool members are always welcome, however it was their choice to participate or not.

The comment regarding Ted can only be answered with, “He’s a busy guy these days.” Yes, he is missed ‘round here, but life goes on. I really don’t know when we’ll see him again, but I do know he’s not angry with anyone nor disinterested in the bar.


THANX to all for the support, rounds and quarters for our Coal Scuttle – much appreciated![tup]

Repeated:SOME PIX ARE NEEDED! If anyone would like some of their RR Pix Posted this Sunday, send them to me by Email attachments (no more than 4 at a time, please). Really running low on material for Sunday Photo Posting Day! THANX!

Leon the Night Man takes the bar at 9 PM (Central)!


Later![tup]


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


THINK April 12th –
The 1st year Anniversary of ”Our” Place!

[trolleyboy]

Good evening again folks & asorted other barflies.[:D] Tom here's a couple bucks for a round this evening,I'll pass for the time being as I'm heading onto work in about an hour [sigh]

So in keeping with today's DRGW fest, here's the info i was able to dig out of the archieves. This is locomotive roster and state for teh DRGW as off 1995 just prior to the DRGW/SP merger.

Enjoy Rob.

DRGW Stats as of 1996.

Miles 2,392
locomotives (active) on the roster 299.

SW1200 10 units built by EMD in 1965 #'s 130-139
SW1000 10 units built by EMD in 1966-1968 #'s 140-149
GP 30 24 units built by EMD in 1962-1963 #'s 3001-3008,3010-13,3014-24
GP 35 22 units built by EMD in 1964-1965 #'s 3029-50, 3051-57,3059-62
GP 40 41 units built by EMD in 1966-1971 #'s 3064-3093
GP 40-2 36 units built by EMD in 1972-1983 #'s 3094-3107,3109-3130
GP 40 23 units built by EMD in 1968 #'s 3131-3153 ( ex Conrail )
GP 60 3 units built by GMD in 1990 #'s 3154-3156
SD 45 26 units built by EMD in 1967-1968 #'s 5315-5340
SD 40T-2 71 units built by EMD in 1974-1980 #'s 5341-5401,5403-07,5409-13
SD 50 17 units built by EMD in 1984 #'s 5501-5517
F9A 1 unit built by EMD in 1955 # 5571 ( For Ski train & excursions )
F9B 2 units built by EMD in 1955 #'s 5762-5763
GP9 13 units built by EMD in 1955-1956 # 5903-4,5912- 5913 ,5922,5924,5931,5934,5941,5942,5951,5953,5954

[trolleyboy]

Good afternoon Sir Tom 5x[tup][:D] The new all purpose salute for you as you've come up with another "heck of a good " theme day,and quite well supported too [:D]

Glad you only got the slusu [;)] you could have got what Nebraska was hit with, then what would you have done,I know gone out and played in it with the dog [:-^]. I will be taking Heather out for a birthday dinner ( great little home made Italian joint in town,possibly run by Vito's brother hmmm )

Glad you liked the photo's of those NW's, I'm not much of a switcher guy either but the earlier ones do have their charm.[tup] Good that you are pitching the year bash as well, the more the merrier eh [?] It will be interesting tio see if any of the legion of the lost pop by that day,for old times sake if nothing else.

Pete Glas that you enjoyed the two steam bits,and your right the people of Wiarton likely didn't think that their station would become a rodent forcasters home. Ph Tom he's right about 50% of the time as well and he's not paid go fibure. [:o]

Pete that building behind the NW2 is what's left of the old Michigan central shops in St Thomas On. It houses the Elgin County Museum's collection,at the moment they are doing some structural repairs to the slab concrete on the roof,hopes are to have it accessable to the public by summer.Thanks for the concern for Heather tis a bit scarry when that sort of thing happens but alls well now. Like Tom said, I shall be happy to tuetor you in the picture process once the time comes

Doug Nice info on today's theme sir,[tup] I had a couple extra thumbs grafted on to assist in the typing yesterday LOL. neat shot of the schoolhouse added to your post,reminds me of the purpose built school cars CN/CP and the BC railways used to travel around with in the wilder interior bits of the country.

CM3 Whodathunkit coal on the DRGW,nice bit o info sir [tup] I'm also glad that you got a kick out of the TH&B and Steam stuff I've posted. [tup]

lars thanks for the greetings and worries about the missus, she's fine now. Thanks to everyone else to who showed their concern as well ( Pete. Tom, doug & Nick )I'm glad that I could keep you on your toes by having to read during the day [;)] Actually i'm on midnights for two daze this week yesterday and today so that's why the daylight posts.Nice dome pix BTW [tup]

BK Aha, nice to have you back today sir. I'm told that Ted's okay but busy,guess we will leave it at that.hopefully he like Mcauther "shall return"Loved those posters, and yes they turned out quite well,give a thanks to the "roommate" for the help in the efforts. All I ahve to say is nice hat on the Old man winter poster [swg]

Al He lives[:O] and comes bearing gifts of streamliners past [swg] Good show sir, nice to see that you were able to come up for air.

Nick Thanks for the hidy-ho and thee round last night, too bad I was working and couldn't enjoy it fully [sigh] good to hear that you are on the mend sorry to hear about your sister though. I figure that I'm semi - amune to such malaise. I work in a store so can't avoid the odd and sundery breathing on me,I figure that i get so much stuff thrown at me that I have a hyper-imune system, that or I'm just a lucky SOB,either way i can't remember the last time I was struck down by the "ick" ( not the fish disease ) Boris a round for everyone as I've strayed [#offtopic] I liked that multi paintscheme shot of Tom's as well,at times before all the passenger equipment got the universal ( and boring ) VIA Blue and Yellow painy job, you might even see action red F's and stainless or Cp tuscan passenger cars teid to CN's and VIA's upto the early 80's one could see a veritable rainbow on passenger trains arounfd the country. Much like the early Amtrak yeasr I'm assuming. Oh BTW enjoyed any good emails lately [?]

Right Bye for the moment

Rob

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

Thanks for the Bathams LARS and the kind words[tup].

First I must put my Irish post right. Yes NICK Tralee is in the South WEST of Ireland and not the South East[:I][*^_^*]. I see the 2-6-4 Tank loco #4 is booked to go at least as far as Wexford from Dublin on June 4th.

Great D&RGW Railroad of Yesteryear TOM as I have been fortunate enough to travel on the Durango & Silverton, as far as Cascade Canyon as the first snow of the year had prevented the train going to Silverton. Also later I travelled on the Cumbres & Toltec from Chama to Antinito. These two lines certainly live up to the motto "Scenic Line of the World" and to be hauled by steam as well is an experience to last a life time for a railbuff. [wow][yeah].

The Union Station in Denver is well worth a visit. I suppose it is fortunate that it has survived with the loss of nearly all of the trains. At least a part of the site is now in use as a terminus of the Denver light rail system.
Unfortunatly the photos I have are on 35mm and still in the old land[:(].

Many thanks DOUG,CM3,AL ,LARS ,BK and of course TOM for the pics and the great info on a great railroad PETE.

[LoveDomes]

G’day Tom and fellow travelers at the bar!

My “new” greeting kind of fits, huh[?][swg]

I’ll have a hero sandwich – same-o, same-o – ham, swiss, mustard & butter, 2 large pickles from the barrel and a pitcher of R&H I’m a bit thirsty![swg] Here’s a ten spot for the next round . . . .[tup]

Tom Nice work with your eleventh Railroad from Yesteryear! Eleven! That’s an awful lot of effort and as always, you do it quite well. In fact, I don’t think there’s any question that when someone looks up “how to provide interesting material on the Forums,” the reference comes back as “See siberianmo!” Another 5-[tup]Salute to you Sir![tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]


Enjoyed your submission, Doug and let me say that you really put a lot of effort into this and it shows! A three-[tup] Salute to you, Sir! [tup][tup][tup] If I recall from prior posts – many pages back – you indicated that you really don’t have a background or knowledge for the Classic Trains discussion that our leader wants. Well you sure cudda fooled me! I’d say your contributions to this thread stand on their own two feet and no matter what the source, you always find some very relevant and interesting material. The jokes on the other hand . . . [swg]


G’day to you Mr. Coalminer3 – WHAT IS YOUR NAME[?][banghead][censored]
That’s a “neat” link you made between the D&RG and the coal mines of Colorado. Well done, as always![tup][tup]

Hello Bookend BK![swg] Nice posters![tup][tup] The library,huh[?] Yeah, I bet![swg] With a situation like yours, there ain’t no way I’d have time for a library! [}:)][:-,]
Glad to see you back on your stool, things aren’t quite the same without my “mirror image” being present![swg]

20 Fingers has returned! Looks like Tom and the guys “smoked” you out, huh[?] Just can’t resist those “signature” roads! Nice stuff, as always – and reasonable in length at that![swg]

Rob What’s to say other than when you’re posting, I’m sleeping. Kinda hard to do the “interaction” bit at those times. However, yesterday you really blew our minds with that barrage during daylight. Keeping us off guard, huh[?] Good reading material and appreciated![tup][tup] Sorry the wife was down ‘n out – hope she rebounds for a great Birthday tomorrow. [bday] to Missus Trolleyboy![yeah]

Pete You surely do come up with aspects of the topics that many wouldn’t ever think of. I think Tom really “nailed it,” you are indeed quite an asset around here![tup][tup] Sir Pete! Have aBathams on me . . .


Appears as if my ‘direct tones’ may have created somewhat of a “flap” at the bar. No apologies from me – I stand by my comments about this place and others. I’m here because I like the way the place is run – I like the topic and for the most part, the interaction has been far better than the other forums I’ve participated in over the years. “Participation” is the operative word! ‘Nuf said on that, I hope.


Today the Denver & Rio Grande. Hmmmmmmm. Some thought on that one has to be given. So, let me jump right in with this contribution to the “theme of the day!”


When the "California Zephyr" was inaugurated as a joint effort between Western Pacific, Burlington, and the Rio Grande, the Budd car order was for 30 domes. Based on the total route mileage, each road was apportioned a share of the ownership (and costs) of the cars. The division was Burlington-13, Western Pacific-11, and D&RGW-6. The cars were delivered in 1948.

DRGW #1105 Silver Bronco (1980) (from: www.trainweb.org)



DRGW #1106 Silver Colt (1982) (from: www.trainweb.org)



Next “theme” will be the Great Northern and “Rocky the Goat” huh[?] Better get crackin’ on the research . . . [swg]


Until the next time!

Lars

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Tom and the rest of the gang. Just taking a short break from the office and could not resist looking in. Time for a CR and a round for the house. Like todays subject the D&RGW.

DENVER
&
RIO GRANDE
WESTERN Streamlined Sleeping Cars
by Al

The D&RGW owned a total of 15 lightweight streamlined Sleeping cars. The first two were powered cars delivered for the two car streamlined Budd built PROSPECTORS of November 17, 1941. These cars were the trailing motorized cars of these two car trains. Under each of the four cars of the two PROSPECTOR train sets was a pair of Hercules Diesels running a Generator supplying power to the traction motors. The two train sets were the M-1 and M-2, cars in the M-1 set were JOHN EVANS and DAVID MOFFAT, those in the M-2 were BRIGHAM YOUNG and HEBER C. KIMBALL. The lead units had a control stand small baggage compartment and 44 revenue coach seats. The trailing car in each consist contained eight Sections two Chambrettes (Budd' Company name for a crossways Roomette originally) a buffet and Dinette with Observation Lounge. The two car PROSPECTORS were less than successful being withdrawn from service July 5, 1942 and later returned to Philadelphia where they were scrapped. The High altitude of the Rocky Mountain passes they operated over between Denver and Salt Lake City were their undoing.

POWERED 8 SECTION 2 CHAMBRETTE BUFFET 8 SEAT DINETTE 4 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Budd Company October 1941 (Built for and assigned to PROSPECTORS)

DAVID MOFFAT

HEBER C. KIMBALL

Eight of these were stainless steel cars from Budd for the CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR. The CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR sleeping cars consisted of five 10 Roomette 6 Double Bedroom cars, two 16 Section Sleeping cars and one 3 Double Bedroom 1 Drawing Room Vista Dome Lounge Observation. All cars built for assignment to the CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR were Budd built stainless steel construction and all carried SILVER prefix names with D&RGW assigned numbers.

10 ROOMETTE 6 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Budd Company September - November 1948 Plan: 9509 Lot: 9659 (Built for and assigned to CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR)

1130 SILVER PASS

1131 SILVER SUMMIT

1132 SILVER GORGE

1133 SILVER CREEK

1134 SILVER GLACIER

16 SECTION SLEEPING CARS Budd Company October - November 1948 Plan: 9507 Lot: 9639 (Built for and assigned to CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR)

1120 SILVER ASPEN

1121 SILVER PINE

3 DOUBLE BEDROOM 1 DRAWING ROOM 24 SEAT VISTA DOME 12 SEAT COCKTAIL LOUNGE BAR 14 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION Budd Company December 1948 - January 1949 Plan: 9511 Lot: 9660 (Built for and assigned to CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR)

1145 SILVER SKY

Within months of entering service 1145 SILVER SKY was refitted with a Shower in the Drawing Room Bathroom Annex. The sleeping car space in this car was removed when the RIO GRANDE ZEPHYR replaced the CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR and the space became additional lounge space.
One additional sleeping car was built in July - August 1952 for the D&RGW part of an order for six to equip the CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR consists with a 6 Double Bedroom 5 Compartment Sleeping car.

6 DOUBLE BEDROOM 5 COMPARTMENT SLEEPING CAR Budd Company July - August 1952 Plan: 9534 Lot: 9641-112 (Built for and assigned to CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR)

1135 SILVER GULL

The two 16 Section Sleeping cars 1120 SILVER ASPEN and 1121 SILVER PINE were remodeled to 48 revenue seat leg rest coaches in October 1964 for continued assignment to the CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR.

TTFN AL

[BudKarr]

Hello Captain Tom and all assembled!


Back again in the “cabin” atop the mountain. Actually, it’s more like a chalet and we are not quite on the tippity top. But close enough![swg]

It is close enough to noon so that I will order one of your hard roll sandwiches. Roast beef, swiss, ham, lettuce, tomato and mayo – hold the pickle. A Keith’s Pale Ale should do it. And of course, dip into that “Bag o’ Cash” for a round on me![tup]

Just completed my browsing of the pages I have missed and there has been quite a bit, in spite of the absence of some of our “notables.” Good show to all who keep the thread alive![tup] Unfortunately, I am going to have to review it a bit closer in order to do justice to any comments.

I see one of the “Three Horsemen” may have kicked up a “road apple” or two. In looking back at some of my earlier submissions here and elsewhere, cannot say that I have not felt the urge to lay it on the line once or twice![swg] I happen to be in concurrence with the way our Captain has this place running. If there is anyone out there more unlikely to be a regular at something like this – it surely is me. But here I am. Keep coming back for more. So, for the few who stop in and really have not got anything to offer other than the same and lame platitudes, perhaps they should go elsewhere. Really, it does come down to making contributions. For me, it took awhile, but one does indeed have to try, otherwise it is somewhat like being a fish out of water.

Good selection for a “theme” and I offer up a couple of images to support it.













The source for these three posters came from a library down in Calgary. My “room mate” made some photo copies and scanned them in, so I hope the quality has not been degraded. What were we doing at a library[?] A long story, but it was for other than train research, I assure you![swg]

I notice that Theodorebear Ted has not been seen for weeks, maybe even a month. Is all well with him or has he gone the way of a few others[?] Shame, for his contributions were always upbeat and supportive of what goes on around here.

Yes – we SHOULD begin thinking about April 12th. That truly is a significant date in the calendar for “Our” Place and I for one plan to be here – so put my “reservation” down![swg]


Hope to be back before the week ends.

BK

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Well the blizzard-like-conditions never materialzed and we're left with about 3 inches of slush. What a job these "forecasters" have! Can you imagine getting paid for being right (perhaps) 50% of the time[?][swg]

Another slow day here at the "Feast or Famine Bar 'n Grill!" Good stuff from Doug 'n CM3 perhaps now our most dependable morning duo.[tup]

A reminder to those who like Pix - you should stop by "my other thread" just to see what you've been missing. Even 20 Fingers Posts over there more than here! Don't even want to try and reconcile that one. Might get me in trouble with the "bleeding hearts" out there![swg]

CM3 That Post of yours is chock full 'o good stuff that I surely didn't know, much less think of. Coal is everywhere![swg] Thanx again for the round and quarters![tup]

I suppose to another Robin, it's a good sign, Doug!

Here's a bit more on the "Theme for the day!" . . .

Denver & Rio Grande (DRGW) (1930)[Wikimedia Commons]


Later![tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]


THINK April 12th –
The 1st year Anniversary of ”Our” Place!

[coalminer3]

Good Morning Barkeep and All Preset; coffee, please, round for the house and $ for the jukebox. Weather here is a real mixed bag- there are 5 diffeerent forecasts as there are basically 5 different climate zones in WV. We are supposed to get snow today, so that's why it's raining this a.m.

Lots of Canadian material recently - all copied and saved. We seem to be accumulating quite a bit of TH&B material - thanks to all.

Nick - Buckwheat Zydeco is playing on Mountain Stage this week - they're up at WVU.

Meanwhile everyone is waiting to see what happend in the next round of the NCAA tournament, and WVU football started spring practice yesterday.

Turining to the railroad scene. In August, 2004, Trains ran a most interesting article on D&RGW's traffic relating to mined/mineral materials. A keeper, at least for me. So when I heard that our 'steamed proprietor had declard this D&RG day, I went back to the vaults and put the following together.

Before we begin, however, let's raise our glasses to Edward Gillette - the man who surveyed the D&RGW.

The D&RGW and Coal Mining in Colorado – 1950

Coal was mined in 1950 from 11 different seams in Colorado.

The Book Cliffs Seam was in Mesa County. Its average thickness was about 72 inches. It was a semi-bituminous coal.

The Cameron Seam, bituminous coal, was in Huerfano County. This seam was between 42 and 50 inches thick.

In Gunnison County was the Crested Butte No. 1 Seam. This was an anthracite seam that was 2.5 to 4 feet thick.

The Hastings Seam lay in Las Animas County. This bituminous seam was 42 to 72 inches thick.

The Laramie seam was subbituminous, 4 to 11 feet thick, and 4 to 11 feet thick.

The Mesaverde Seam stretched across Delta, Gunnison and Routt counties. It was an 11 foot thick bituminous seam in Delta County, semi anthracite and bituminous in Gunnison County (the anthracite was 22 inches thick and the bituminous was 6 to 12 feet thick. In Routt County, the seam was 14 foot thick bituminous.

The Pinnacle Seam, also in Routt County was bituminous coal and 5 to 14 feet thick.

The Robinson Seam was found in Huerfano and Las Animas Counties. It was 3 to 5 feet thick.

The Rockvale Seam was in Freemont County. This bituminous coal was 46 to 64 inches thick.

The Wadge Seam was 8 to 1-1/2 feet thick. This bituminous coal was in Routt County.

Finally, the Walsen Seam was in Huerfano County. It was bituminous and 48 to 54 inches thick.

The D&RGW carried coal from many of these mines.

The following is from the 1950 Keystone Coal Manual. It is arranged by company, mine location/county

Bear Canon Coal – Bear Canon No. 6 Mine - Vallorso, Las Animas Co; C&S, D&RGW
Bear Coal and Coke – Bear Mine – Somerset, Gunnison Co – D&RGW
Calumet Fuel Co. – Delcarbon No. 2 Mine – Delcarbon, Huerfano Co – D&RGW
Calumet Fuel Co. – Somerset Mine – Somerset, Gunnison Co – D&RGW
Calumet Fuel Co. – Oliver No. 2 Mine – Somerset, Gunnison Co. – D&RGW
Canon National Coal – Canon National Mine – Florence – D&RGW
Champion Coal Mining Co. – Hawks Nest Mine – Somerset, Gunnison Co – D&RGW
Clark Coal Co. – Edwards Mine – Somerset, Gunnison Co. – D&RGW
Colorado Fuel & Iron Corp. – Crested Butte Mine – Crested Butte, Gunnison Co – D&RGW
Colorado Fuel & Iron Corp. – Kebler No.2 Mine – Kebler, Huerfano Co. – D&RGW
Colowyo Coal Co. – Red Wing Mine – Craig, Moffat Co. – D&RGW
Corley, W.D., jr. – Corley No. 6 Mine – Florence, Fremont Co. – ATSF/D&RGW
Edna Coal Co. – Edna Strip – Oak Creek, Routt Co. – D&RGW
Gordon Coal Co. – Gordon Mine – Alamo Store, Huerfano Co. – C&S/D&RGW
Butte Valley Mine – Butte, Huerfano Co. – D&RGW
Hayden Coal Co – Hayden No. 4 Mine – Haybro, Routt Co. – D&RGW
Huerfano Coal Co. – Ludlow Mine – Ludlow, Las Animas Co. – C&S/D&RGW
Juanita Coal and Coke Co. – King Mine – Bowie, Delta Co. – D&RGW
Kerr Coal Co. – Cameo Mine – Cameo, Mesa Co. – D&RGW
Minnequa Coal Co. – Morning Glory Mine – Walsenburg, Huerfano Co. – D&RGW
Moffat Coal Co. – Moffat No. 2 Mine – Oak Creek, Routt Co. – D&RGW
Osage Coal Co. – Osage Mine – Milner, Routt Co. – D&RGW
Pikes Peak Fuel Co. – Pike View Mine – Colorado Springs, Elpaso Co. – D&RGW
Victor-American Fuel Co. – Wadge Mine – Harris, Routt Co. – D&RGW

Other roads that handled coal mined in Colorado included the Burlington and the UP.

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