"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

A pint of Bathams. Is It on ROB for the rule violation[?][:-,].

Well TOM another winner on the NH[tup][tup]. The maps are really apprciated as someone who is not too up on N. American geography yet. With CM3 adding more details and the wonderful piece from the past,. encore from BK, the Named Trains from LARS and AL with the early morning post an excellent day at the bar.
Having had a too short visit to the Providence area last year if I get back there I must have a ride to New York [yeah].

No doubt one of the regulars can tell me which of the branch lines in the Providence area still survive and still in use [?].

RUSSELL Many thanks for the photo of#2933. It is an impressive loco and looks in good condition[tup].

ROB Hopefuly Blackpool will keep the whole tramway system and they don't just keep the part of the tramway which runs along the Promanade as a summer only operation.
I think the decison is a bit in the future.
It must have been a dangerous occupation driving cars like 327 in adverse weather, with the open electrics, there must have been many injuries.

TOM Allow me to get a round for the fine posts [tup] and tonight it is Fish and Chips for [dinner] [^] PETE.

[passengerfan]

Good afternoon Tom and the rest of the guys. Time for a quick CR and a round for the house.

Appreciate the fine effort of everyone on the New Haven today . Rode the New Haven on several occasions when stationed at Boston Naval Shipyard in a time long ago. Still miss the Scrod but lucky enough to find a local store who brings it in about three times a year always gives me a call when next shipment is coming.

NEW YORK
NEW HAVEN
&
HARTFORD Streamlined sleeping cars
by Al

The NYNH&H received their first lightweight streamlined sleeping cars beginning in December 1949. The NYNH&H assigned these streamlined sleeping cars to the OWL overnight in both directions between Boston and New York serving Grand Central Terminal beginning December 15, 1949. They were assigned to operate in the QUAKER between Boston and Philadelphia overnight in each direction by way of Pennsylvania Station New York. They were assigned to the FEDERAL between Boston and Washington overnight in each direction by way of Pennsylvania Station New York. The new sleeping cars were also assigned to the MONTREALER - WASHINGTONIAN the overnight trains between those cities. The first order for lightweight streamlined sleeping cars was for twenty-seven 14 Roomette 4 Double Bedroom cars named for POINTS.

14 ROOMETTE 4 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard December 1949 - January 1950 Plan: 4159 Lot: 6942 (Built for and assigned to FEDERAL - MONTREALER / WASHINGTONIAN - OWL - QUAKER)

500 ALLYNS POINT

501 BEAVERTAIL POINT

502 BLACK POINT

503 CITY POINT

504 CORNFIELD POINT

505 EAST POINT

506 GOSHEN POINT

507 GULL POINT

508 INDIA POINT

509 LONG POINT

510 LOOKOUT POINT

511 LORDS POINT

512 MANOMET POINT

513 MISHAUM POINT

514 MONOMOY POINT

515 MORGAN POINT

516 NAPATREE POINT

517 NORTH POINT

518 POND POINT

519 QUONSET POINT

520 RACE POINT

521 ROCKY POINT

522 ROTON POINT

523 SANDY POINT

524 SHIPPAN POINT

525 STRATFORD POINT

526 WILSON POINT

In early 1954 the NYNH&H ordered eleven additional lightweight stream-lined sleeping cars with 6 Sections 6 Roomettes and 4 Double Bedrooms in the BEACH series and four Sleeper Buffet Lounge Dinette cars in the STATE series with 6 Double Bedrooms Buffet-Kitchen and 24 seat Dinette Lounge. The sleeping cars were assigned to all overnight trains and the four sleeping Dinette Lounge cars were assigned to the FEDERAL and MONTREALER/ WASHINGTONIAN. The two cars of this type assigned to the FEDERAL were 550 BAY STATE and 551 KEYSTONE STATE. The two cars assigned to the MONTREALER / WASHINGTONIAN were 552 NUTMEG STATE and 553 PINE TREE STATE.

6 SECTIONS 6 ROOMETTES 4 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard November 1954 - January 1955 Plan: 4194 Lot: 6942 (Built for and assigned to FEDERAL - MONTREALER / WASHINGTONIAN - OWL - QUAKER)

527 BAILEY'S BEACH

528 CRESCENT BEACH

529 GROVE BEACH

530 HAMMONASSET BEACH


531 MATUNUCK BEACH

533 OCEAN BEACH

534 POPPONESSET BEACH

535 ROCKY NECK BEACH

536 MONUMENT BEACH

537 SOUND BEACH

6 DOUBLE BEDROOM BUFFET KITCHEN 24 SEAT DINETTE-LOUNGE CARS Pullman Standard January 1955 Plan: 4193 Lot: 6941 (Built for and assigned to FEDERAL - MONTREALER / WASHINGTONIAN)

550 BAY STATE

551 KEYSTONE STATE

552 NUTMEG STATE

553 PINE TREE STATE


NEW YORK
NEW HAVEN
&
HARTFORD Streamlined Obsewrvations
by Al

The NYNH&H owned but two lightweight streamlined Observations. Both were built by Pullman Standard at the old Osgood Bradley plant in Worcester, Mass. to the postwar American Flyer design that featured fluted stainless steel side panels. These were the only two lightweight streamlined Observations ever built in this plant. The two New Haven cars were numbered and named 475 WATCH HILL and 476 BUNKER HILL. The two cars delivered in June 1949 featured interiors with 36 seat Tavern Lounge Bar 28 seat Lounge Observation. The two cars were constructed for the only all parlor streamlined trains in the U.S. the MERCHANTS LIMITED between Boston and New York. Shortly after the two Observations entered service the MERCHANTS LIMITED added coaches. The two Observations were withdrawn from the MERCHANTS LIMITED in April 1954 and were modified for mid train use with an adapter fitted to the Observation end and diaphragm installed. Thereafter the two Observations operated as Tavern Lounge cars in Commuter service.
Both cars were transferred to the Penn Central in the merger and continued in Commuter service.

36 SEAT TAVERN LOUNGE BAR 28 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS (Swallow - Tailed) Pullman Standard June 1949 (Built for and assigned to MERCHANTS LIMITED)

475 WATCH HILL

476 BUNKER HILL

NEW YORK
NEW HAVEN
&
HARTFORD Streamlined Parlor Cars
by Al

The New York New Haven & Hartford owned the largest number of postwar streamlined Parlor cars built for any railroad. Not only did they own the greatest number but they also owned the greatest variety of lightweight streamlined parlor car types. The New Haven operated the only lightweight streamlined all parlor car trains in America the MERCHANTS LIMITED but alas coaches were added within thirty days of its entry into service as a streamlined train.
The fifty lightweight streamlined parlor cars delivered to the New Haven externally were all to the postwar so called American Flyer design from Pullman Standards Worcester, Mass. plant. This was originally the old Osgood Bradley plant. The postwar American Flyer design cars featured fluted stainless steel panels both above and below the windows of the car sides.
The New Haven promoted parlor car service more than any other railroad in the United States and at one time nearly every through train between Boston and New York carried one or more parlor cars. The New Haven remained one of the largest users of heavyweight Parlor cars in the late 1930's and throughout the 1940"s. And this was in addition to the fifty lightweight streamlined parlor cars delivered to the New Haven in the late 1940's. The lightweight streamlined parlor cars of the New Haven were numbered in the 200s, 300s and 400s. The 200 series parlor cars were named for COUNTIES, the 300 series parlor cars were named for on line CITIES and TOWNS, and the 400 series were named for on line RIVERS.

BAGGAGE ROOM BUFFET 2 REVENUE PARLOR ROOMETTES 1 REVENUE PARLOR DRAWING ROOM 31 LOUNGE SEAT CARS Pullman Standard (Osgood-Bradley) July - August 1948 Plan: 4503 Lot: 6788 (Built for and assigned to numerous named trains)

200 MIDDLESEX COUNTY

201 SUFFOLF COUNTY

202 BRISTOL COUNTY

203 DUKES COUNTY

204 ESSEX COUNTY

205 PLYMOUTH COUNTY

BAGGAGE ROOM BUFFET 1 REVENUE PARLOR DRAWING ROOM 2 REVENUE PARLOR ROOMETTES 32 LOUNGE SEAT CARS Pullman Standard (Osgood - Bradley) October 1948 Plan: 4503D Lot: 6788 (Built for and assigned to numerous named trains)

206 PUTNAM COUNTY

207 NEW LONDON COUNTY

BAGGAGE ROOM BUFFET 1 REVENUE PARLOR DRAWING ROOM 2 REVENUE PARLOR ROOMETTES 28 LOUNGE SEAT CARS Pullman Standard (Osgood - Bradley) October 1948 Plan: 4503B Lot: 6788 (Built for and assigned to numerous named trains)

208 BERKSHIRE COUNTY

209 KINGS COUNTY

BAGGAGE ROOM BUFFET 2 REVENUE PARLOR ROOMETTES 1 REVENUE PARLOR DRAWING ROOM 14 REVENUE PARLOR SEATS 11 SEAT LOUNGE CARS Pullman Standard (Osgood Bradley) October 1948 Plan: 4501 Lot: 6788 (Built for and assigned to numerous name trains)

210 KENT COUNTY

211 WASHINGTON COUNTY

212 ULSTER COUNTY

213 TOLLAND COUNTY

214 FAIRFIELD COUNTY

215 QUEENS COUNTY

216 LITCHFIELD COUNTY

217 WINDHAM COUNTY

218 HAMPSHIRE COUNTY

219 BRONX COUNTY

36 REVENUE SEAT PARLOR CARS Pullman Standard (Osgood - Bradley) August 1948 Plan: 4500 Lot: 6788 (Built for and assigned to numerous named trains)

300 PITTSFIELD

301 BRIDGEPORT

302 MANSFIELD

303 BROCKTON

304 HARTFORD

305 ROWAYTON

306 CRANSTON

307 WORCESTER

308 STAMFORD

309 STONINGTON

310 TORRINGTON

311 PROVIDENCE

52 REVENUE SEAT PARLOR CARS WITH 2-1 SEATING Pullman Standard (Osgood - Bradley) August 1948 Plan: 4500 Lot: 6788 (Built for and assigned to numerous name trains)

312 ATTLEBORO

313 PAWTUCKET

314 GUILFORD

315 WESTERLY

316 MYSTIC

317 DANBURY

318 GROTON

319 HOLYOKE

320 MERIDEN

321 MILFORD

322 NEWPORT

323 TAUNTON

324 LYME

26 REVENUE SEAT PARLOR 14 SEAT SMOKING LOUNGE CARS Pullman Standard (Osgood - Bradley) October 1948 Plan: 4502 Lot: 6788 (Built for and assigned to numerous named trains)

400 CONNECTICUT RIVER

401 THAMES RIVER

402 HOUSATONIC RIVER

403 BLACKSTONE RIVER

404 HUDSON RIVER

The New Haven trains assigned Parlor cars with Drawing Rooms and Day Roomettes THE YANKEE CLIPPER; MERCHANTS LIMITED between Boston & New York in both directions. They also operated in unnamed train # 58, THE AMBASSADOR and the BANKERS between Springfield and New York. The SENATOR and THE PATRIOT between Boston and Washington operated with Parlor cars that featured Drawing Rooms. The following trains operated with New Haven parlor cars.

6-9 THE MAYFLOWER between Boston and New York both directions

10 THE MURRAY HILL between New York & Boston

12 THE BAY STATE between New York & Boston

13 THE 42nd STREET between Boston and New York

15-20 THE PURITAN between New York and Boston both directions

28-29 THE GILT EDGE between New York and Boston both directions

33 THE SUNDOWN Boston & New York

Almost immediately after entering service Parlor cars 312 - 324 were a source of complaints, passengers did not like the two and one seating in these cars and voiced their opposition to the New Haven management. For once a railroads management listened and in early 1949 all thirteen cars 312 - 324 were reconfigured with 1-1 seating reducing capacity to 36 the same as Parlor cars 300 - 311.
In June 1949 the New Haven renamed 36-seat Parlor car 305 ROWAYTON to 305 WOONSOCKET.
The five 400 series 26 seat Parlor 14 seat Smoking Lounge cars named for RIVERS were renamed between January and April from RIVER series names to NEW prefix names in order to avoid conflict with NYC cars that shared the same Mott-Haven Coach yard in New York. The following lists the new name and the original name of these cars.

400 NEW BRITAIN originally 400 CONNECTICUT RIVER

401 NEW ROCHELLE originally 401 THAMES RIVER

402 NEW MILFORD originally 402 HOUSATONIC RIVER

403 NEW BEDFORD originally 403 BLACKSTONE RIVER

404 NEW HAVEN originally 404 HUDSON RIVER

In late 1952 the New Haven Passenger Department made the decision to rebuild several parlor cars with Baggage rooms and Drawing Rooms with additional revenue space by eliminating the Baggage Rooms in these cars. All work was performed at Pullman Standards old Osgood –Bradley plant in Worcester where the cars were cycled through. The cars after rebuilding retained their original numbers and names.

3 REVENUE 5 SEAT PARLOR DRAWING ROOMS 2 REVENUE PARLOR ROOMETTES BUFFET 28 LOUNGE SEAT CARS Rebuilt February 1953 to new Plan: 4503D

206 PUTNAM COUNTY

207 NEW LONDON COUNTY

3 REVENUE 5 SEAT PARLOR DRAWING ROOMS 2 REVENUE PARLOR ROOMETTES BUFFET 28 SEAT LOUNGE CARS Rebuilt October 1953 to new Plan: 4503C

208 BERKSHIRE COUNTY

209 KINGS COUNTY

3 REVENUE 5 SEAT PARLOR DRAWING ROOMS 2 PARLOR ROOMETTES BUFFET 29 SEAT LOUNGE CARS Rebuilt October 1953 to new Plan: 4503E

204 ESSEX COUNTY

205 PLYMOUTH COUNTY

Two of the 300 series 36 seat Parlor cars were remodeled to 72 revenue seat Coaches by the New Haven in April 1964 losing there names and being renumbered into the 7200 series at that time.

7200 originally 300 PITTSFIELD

7201 originally 308 STAMFORD

Eight additional 300 series Parlor cars were remodeled to 7200 series 72 revenue seat coaches in May 1964.

7202 originally 309 STONINGTON

7203 originally 310 TORRINGTON

7204 originally 311 PROVIDENCE

7205 originally 312 ATTLEBORO

7206 originally 315 WESTERLY

7207 originally 317 DANBURY

7208 originally 322 NEWPORT

7209 originally 323 TAUNTON

All remaining New Haven lightweight streamlined Parlor cars were transferred to PC ownership in the 1968 merger.

TTFN AL

[siberianmo]

Some books of the New Haven:
(available from several Internet sources)

New Haven Passenger Trains (Great Passenger Trains) by Peter E. Lynch



New Haven Railroad (Railroad Color History)by Peter E. Lynch



The New Haven Railroad's Streamline Passenger Fleet: 1934-1953 by Geoffrey H. Doughty



The New Haven Railroad Along the Shore Line: The Thoroughfare from New York City to Boston (Golden Years of Railroading) by Martin J. McGuirk



That's it for my efforts regarding today's "Theme" for the Railroads From Yesteryear!

Enjoy!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[Anonymous]

Good evening Tom and friends! I'll take a shot of Daniels, and a water chaser to help with the coughing. Please accept a round on me, and some Michigan quarters for the jukebox! There's been so much posted since I was last here, I don't know where to begin. Everyone really did a great job following themes, such as the New Haven and NYC.

Al, great streamliners, as usual. You know, I was at the 20th Century RR club meeting last night, and the speaker had written a book on Pullman sleepers. Guess they missed the boat as far as streamlined sleepers went.

CM3, really enjoyed your Boston & Albany post. I didn't realize that Cleveland was an exotic location until I read your post! Great theme-running info on the New Haven too.

Lars, I'm liking your posts more and more. You too are enhancing the train system themes. Nice 20th Century stuff. I recently saw the movie "North by Northwest" with Cary Grant, and I'm sure you already know, the 20th Century Limited was the set for much of the action.

Tom, looks to me like your Railroads of Yesteryear series is really taking off, and stimulating new conversation. I enjoyed the several pix that you posted as well. The MoPac station sure is a looker! I'm still working awful hours these days. That's why you saw my very early morning post a few days ago. I'm typically working 10 to 11 hours a day, and parts of Saturdays as well. I'm trying to avoid work this weekend if possible. I won a train wreck book last night at the RR club meeting, but did not find your Hinton in it. Bummer.

Russ and Pete, I don't mean to ignore you, but I'm running out of time here. My bride and I are celebrating our anniversary tonight (2nd), and I'm rushed for time .. as usual. Our actual anniversary is Feb 14, but it's too difficult to book the "Dolphin" (a small sail ship that floats inside the restaraunt) on Valentines Day. Pete .... I believe I owe you an article? I snatched an extra copy of the newsletter the article came from. E-mail me your address, and it's yours.

As I already mentioned...I must be off! So here's part IV of the cab series, and have a great evening!

Cabs – by George Hart, from the pages of Oct. 1943 Railroad Magazine

“Gentlemen, we find nothing to complain of in the maintenance of Mill Creek bridge.” Inspection engines like the Reading’s No. 100 were not pleasant to ride in the summer, but they more than justified themselves on rainy days and the “winter-time. These locomotives, with their deep, muffled exhaust, were easily distinguished within hearing distance.


Even all-steel cabs however were insufficient to keep out driving snow and rain, since most of them were not enclosed at the back. After all, the fireman had to get at the coal in the tender. For additional protection, most railroads furnished curtains of heavy duck canvas which were hung from the back roof of the cab and attached to the sides by hooks or other fasteners. These hangings are still used on most cabs.

An improvement which does away with the need for protective curtains is the vestibule or all-weather cab. Canadian railways were among the first to introduce this type of shelter, since the severe winters in parts of Canada made it virtually a necessity. Recently, though, a number of lines in the temperate climes have followed suit, among them the Southern Pacific, whose famous Daylight engines and Lima-built AC-Ss use this construction.

The Southern Pacific, too, is responsible for what may well be regarded as the most unusual cab arrangement on this continent; its cab-in-front design. Developed for maximum visibility and freedom from exhaust gasses in snowshed territory, these cabs are applied to articulated consolidations which run “backward,” by all conventional standards. With tenders trailing their smokebox fronts. As a result, the stack, with its deadly fumes, is a boiler length behind the cab. Obviously such operation is only possible with an oil-burning locomotive, where the fuel can be readily piped to the firebox. Engine controls, in the case of the “wampuses” as their crews call them, have been moved across the deck; hence the throttle is still on the “right-hand side.” In this regard it is interesting to note that there are no left-hand cab control arrangements on U.S. or Canadian roads today, despite the fact that left-hand operation is standard on one American railroad, the Chicago & North Western.

Cleaning up the cab. The evolutiom of the cab-in-front nose is clearly illustrated in these close-ups of Espee AC-3 and AC-8 Classes.


Electrification brought about new cab versions, since this form of motive power had no boiler and firebox to make provision for. The first such trunk line installation in America – the B&O stretch between Camden and Mount Royal stations, Baltimore – was served by locomotives which had what amounted to two cabs in the center of the engine, affording the hogger a clear view regardless of direction.

Thus was born the heavy duty version of the “steeple” cab, which has been developed through successive stages, including the Milwaukee road’s famous old 10,000 series, to the ultra-modern, all-welded GG-1 job of the PRR. The latter system, incidently, arrived at this design as a direct result of experience gained with its “box” or “stub” cab P-5as, wherein the enginemen sat directly above the locomotive pilot – a vulnerable position in the event of a grade crossing collision. A later, or modified version of the P-5a has remedied the condition, by placing controls in a streamlined steeple.

Second Union Pacific streamliner, the City of Portland, has cab set back of the air intake

Cabs appeared on still another type of power with the advent of the Diesel switcher back in 1925. Early units of this type followed the double stub cab arrangement. Today a single cab at one end of the motor housing is customary on drill engines, with steeple cabs finding increasing favor on models rating 600 horsepower or less. The road Diesel began, similarly with a stub cab, as witness the Santa Fe’s first Super Chief motors and the original Burlington Zephyrs. UP started the ball rolling in another direction in 1934 with the then-daring packaging of its City of Salida, which placed the crew above and behind a bulging prow that housed the air intake. Ventilators are placed on the engine walls today, but the high, hood-protected cab has become standard for virtually all Diesel road engines, freight and passenger. The success of this automotive-inspired design has even carried over into the straight electric field, with its adoption by the New Have for two classes of pantagraph-fed machines.

The cab window, as we’ve already noted, is a focal point of cab interest. When shelters were first introduced, curtains with holes were used, the openings occasionally being covered with isinglass. They were soon superseded by panes of glass on the front and sides. At first the glazed windows were very small to lessen the danger of breakage when engines rocked along poorly ballasted track. Sometimes designers went all out and provided oval windows, as on Belvidere-Delaware power, for example.

Engine builders soon realized the need for greater visibility, however, so they began employing four windows side by side. Finding the resulting framework confusing to the eye, to say nothing of the difficulty imposed upon fat engineers when they wanted to lean far out to survey the track, they cut this number down to three, as witness the old 999, Buchanan’s speed queen of Empire State fame. Soon the Brooks Works was turning out engines whose spacious steel cabs had only one full-size window on each side, with sliding sub-casements.

Evolution of the Empire State Express. Buchanan’s 999 was one up on the 5429 in matters of window space.

[siberianmo]

Evenin' Gents!

Time to wrap up the day (for me) with a <phew> 'nother day done. Definitely spending far too much time with this ........

Appreciate seeing Pete stop by and YES - that drink was on Rob!![swg] Thanx for the round![tup] Fish 'n Chips, just for YOU tonight![swg]

Yes, we've had a bunch of good "stuff" to consider - just wish we could get more of the guys involved with coming up with supporting Posts. They saw one has to crawl before one walks ....

Al - Nice continuation of the info on the New Haven with all those streamlined cars, broken down by type. (Too bad it wasn't transmitted in parts ...)

Thanx for the round, Al the guys (wherever they are) will enjoy it![tup]

I see Doug has stopped by with a rather long Post on his Cabs series. Hmmmmm, not quite the "Theme" for the day,, eh[?] Well, it IS easy to get a bit overwhelmed with the gobs of "stuff" Posted these past several days .... NYC was Tuesday and today is NH.

Happy 2nd Anniversary to you and your bride! And you found the time to stop in[?][swg][?][swg]

Thanx for the round AND the Michigan quarters![tup]


Leon the Night Man has the bar at 9 PM (Central)

My next Post will be in the AM ........ [tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[trolleyboy]

Evening Leon,glad to see that you are enjoying that new boot poli***up][8D] if only we could develope something that cleans up after Tex ( since Boris dosen't )[:(!]. anyhow sor Leon since my tab's been maxed today just one small order of the fish and chips and a Keith's please.

Tom innserection[?] Hardley i'm candian, we don't inserect we just complain about them and clean up the aftermath[swg][;)][:D]

Excellent info on the New Haven Sir. Having read through the article, I hadn't realized that some many of the smaller New england routes were owned or leased by the New Haven. Great to see the map and the blast from BK as well. Good series all around [tup]

CM3 Great info adding onto Tom's efforts. I agree with tom you need to get published sir. Having looked at the map that Tom posted,one wonders how much of that infastructure is still there. I'm assuming that NJ transit and NYC city have kept most of the commuter stuff too and from NYC intact.

Al Hey two streamliners for the price of one [bow] Were you able to write that off for yourself [swg]

Doug Nice to see the next installment of the cabs series, good info as per always [tup] Also congrats on your aniversary[^] It's interesting to see just how long it took most of the "northern" railways to actually make the enclosed cabs for their crews winter comfort. Even at that it's supprising as to how many Canadian locomotives ( road ones ) only had the curtains. CPR tended to use just curtains, they did put full cabs on some of the later Pacific's and Mikes and one class of Consollidation but they were a frugal road.[:0]

Lars Excellant follow up on today's preceedings,amazing how many name trains the NH had, not supprising though when you see the map and envision how many to and from NYC commuters they actually handled day in day out.

Pete There wasn't as many accidents with those open cars as one would think. The TRC ( Toronto Railway Company ) only used 327 and it's sisters from April to October. They stored the bodies for fall and winter. They would remove the wooden superstructure in the shops an swap it for a closed wooden body ( talk about labour intensive ) it was done this way to cut the cost of having separate fleets of powered open and closed cars. After 327 and it's side running bioard sisters were banned the TRC began building convertable cars, in which the right side of the body could be removed and made open for the nicer weather they started building these in 1904-1910 in single and double trucked versions ( TR cars ). Once the side running boards were banned outright in 1915 the convertable cars were made non-convertable by the shops. our museum has one of each 1704 ( single truck 1904 built } and 1326 a double trucker 1910 built. Now testing a theory and the new rules Tom 2 picture one of 1704 in use in the city and one of 1326 at the museum, I don't have a picture of 1704 at the museum as the cars under a tarp in a semi - disassembled state so it's not very photo genic at the moment.






Nite folks[zzz]

Rob

[trolleyboy]

I have been remiss in posting any new info of my own so here's a new one. a bit different as it covers one of the more unusual bits of railroading.Though not truly "juice" I will enter it as such.

CLASSIC JUICE # 20 THE HAMILTON INCLINES

The city of Hamilton as you may or may not know is seperated by the Niagara Escarpment, so you have an upper and lower city, before the road access's ther were two incline railways built to help people get up and down the escarpment, or the mountain as it's locally called.

HAMILTON & BARTON INCLINE RAILWAY

The older of the two incline's, was the one at the head of Jame's Street. Built on a 31% grade , the line had two tracks of eight foot gauge, on each ran a car 36 feet long, 14 feet wide and 13 feet high at the lower end,each weighing ten tons. The structure was 700 feet long and the cars climbed 195 feet. About two thirds of the line was on a steel trestle which was at one point about 50 feet high. The two cars were not connected together as is usual on such lines, but each had it's own 125hp steam engine at the upper terminus, and could be operated independantly of each other.

They were however,normally operated in balance. each had two cables and two 10 foot drums, one drum for hauling the other as a powerfull emergency brake. The upperc terminus had in addition to the steam engines and their controls& boilers also had quarters for the operator and his family with the caaretaker living in a similar dwelling at the lower terminus. Passengers payed a 2c fare and were kept in a narrow cabin on the right side of the car while the left side of the car carried horse teams and buggies for 4c !

The first test ttrip was made in 1892 on June 3rd.Public service started on june 11th but was closed down after two hours because of a shortage of steam caysed by boiler foaming, but was successfully restarted the following day.

Very little change was made to operations over it's coarse of operation.Fares wer increaed in 1919 to 50c and 1.25 but defficets continued. The company offered to sell the system to the city in 1931 for $50,000 the original cost of the construction. The propsal was refused and the line shut down on Dec 26 1931. It did reopen the following March 1st when the city aggreed to bear and operating cost of $1000 per year. It was abandoned again in may of 1932.

The assets of the company were taken over by the city for non-payment of taxes in 1934.several; attempts to restart the service by the city were attempted before it was finally dismantled in 1942. The houses remained until 1947 when it was discovere that a family of 16 was living in the lower house !


THE HAMILTON INCLINE RAILWAY

This was the newer and larger of the two inclines, located near the head of Wentworth St. it opened in 1900.It was of similar construction to the James Street incline, 800 feet long and on a 40 % grade. The track gauge was 12'1 and a half inches. The cars were of similar out-line and were planned to carry single truck streetcars up the mountain to the upper lines,this never occured.

The duration of the trip was one and a half minutes. Fares never changed, 2c round trip for mountain residents, 8/25c for "downtown" residients. A new company took over in 1906 and ran it till the end.

Passengers had to cross two busy railway lines between the lower terminus and waiting streetcars.The original plans had visulized the incline manuvering level crossings of the Grand Trunk and the TH&B lines but thankfully the engineering wasn't possible.

The cars on this incline wer in balance, the two haulage drums were connected together and revolved in the same direction. The cable from one car was taken over the top of one drum while the other cars cable went out the bottom of the other drum. Thus one car would be pulled up at the same rate as the other was being reeled in.

On november 3 1913, the entire structure was badley damaged by a rockslide on te mountain,and during the rebuilding the opportunity was taken to rebuild the trestle more securly to the escarpment. They also converted it to electric drive at this time. Operations resumed in april of 1914 and electrification came a few months later. The actual power was provided by batteries, cahrged at night by the old steam engines.

The companies greatest prosperity occured in 1929-30 when the Mountain developement was advanced, but before proper road access was extended.Thuis incline lasted a bit longer than the Jame's street one, shutting down in aug 1936.Consatnt efforts to restart the line were made espeacially during the war as there still was no convienient road up the mountain,and about 2500 people made the 521 step climb up the mountain each day. The restart efforts were unsuccessful as the city refused to assume the lines defficet which was estimated to be $5000 dollars ! Supprisingly the strusture was not removed until 1949.


Rob

[siberianmo]

FRIDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of POSTS

We open at 6 AM. (Don’t ask how we do that!)[swg]


The end of the week as arrived! Fini***he week with a freshly brewed cuppa Joe, some pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery, and if you’re really hungry, try our <traditional> and <light> breakfast selections from the menu board![tup]

QUESTION: What date of significance does this coming Sunday represent[?][?]


Daily Wisdom

You can’t think and hit at the same time.
(yogi-ism)


Info for the Day:

Railroads from Yesteryear may be found at:

Baltimore & Ohio (B&O)
#1: http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=233&TOPIC_ID=35270
Chesapeake & Ohio (C&O)
#2: http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=234&TOPIC_ID=35270
Pennsylvania (PRR)
#3: http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=237&TOPIC_ID=35270
New York Central (NYC)
#4: http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=240&TOPIC_ID=35270
New Haven (NYNH&H)
#5: http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=242&TOPIC_ID=35270

Santa Fe arrives next Tuesday!

* Weekly Calendar:

Today: Pizza Nite! & Steak ‘n Fries Nite!
Saturday: Steak ‘n Trimmin’s Nite!


SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 08 Feb 2006, 23:19:34 (241) Inclusive Post, etc.

(2) passengerfan Al Posted: 09 Feb 2006, 02:53:38 (241) Streamliner #58, Merchants Ltd – New Haven

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 Feb 2006, 05:22:00 (242) Thursday’s Info & Summary

(4) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 Feb 2006, 07:47:20 (242) Acknowledgments, etc.

(5) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 Feb 2006, 07:52:57 (242) RRs from Yesteryear #5 – New Haven

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 Feb 2006, 08:37:41 (242) NYNH&H Map

(7) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 09 Feb 2006, 08:46:44 (242) AM visit & New Haven info

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 Feb 2006, 10:46:08 (242) reply to coalminer3, etc.

(9) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 Feb 2006, 10:54:57 (242) ENCORE! BK New Haven

(10) LoveDomes Lars Posted: 09 Feb 2006, 14:28:11 (242) Theme for the Day, etc.

(11) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 Feb 2006, 14:57:05 (242) reply to LoveDomes, etc.

(12) pwolfe Pete Posted: 09 Feb 2006, 16:06:43 (242) Inclusive Post, etc.

(13) passengerfan Al Posted: 09 Feb 2006, 16:50:47 (242) Streamlined cars of the New Haven

(14) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 Feb 2006, 18:56:51 (242) Books of the New Haven

(15) barndad Doug Posted: 09 Feb 2006, 18:59:32 (242) Inclusive Post & Cabs, Part IV

(16) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 Feb 2006, 19:25:50 (242) Acknowledgments, etc.

(17) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 09 Feb 2006, 22:32:09 (242) Inclusive Post, etc.

(18) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 09 Feb 2006, 23:22:20 [242] Classic Juice #20 – Hamilton Inclines


NOW SHOWING:

The Mentor Village Emporium Theatre
Double Features beginning Monday, January 30th!

. . . Sunday, February 5th thru 11th: The Titfield Thunderbolt (British 1953) starring: Stanley Holloway, Naunton Wayne, John Gregson & Sidney James – and – Breakheart Pass (1975) starring Charles Bronson, Ben Johnson & Richard Crenna.

Coming Attractions:

. . . Sunday, February 12th thru 18th: Bound for Glory (1976) starring: David Carradine, Ronny Cox & Melinda Dillon – and – Emperor of the North Pole (1973) starring: Lee Marvin, Ernest Borgnine & Keith Carradine.


That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[Anonymous]

Good morning Tom and all! I'll have two lite breakfasts between rye, and a gallon of orange juice, please. The snow has given me a chance to get to work a little later this morning, and I'm taking it!

Nice incline piece Mr. Rob. I believe I failed to mention your efforts in last nights post too. Sorry about that. Durn this old brain of mine!

My cab series is wrapping-up. Here's part V, with one more part to go. Hope you enjoy it while you're working on your breakfasts. Have a great day!

Cabs – by George Hart, from the pages of Oct. 1943 Railroad Magazine

Southern Pacific novelty was Camelback 2282. She was built by Baldwin.


Designers may have thought they had the problem solved, then, but actually it was far from closed. Many engineers in the United States and Canada complained of eyestrain due to improper glazing. At a meeting of the American Association of Railway Surgeons on 1907, Dr. Frank G. Murphy, oculist of the Milwaukee Road, brought up that matter. He explained that there were three types of glass commonly used on North American railroads. Even the best of them was often defective. Peering intently through this imperfect pane for any length of time irritated the eyes. The quiver and jar of a speeding engine naturally aggravated every defect in the glass. The view seen through it was frequently distorted so badly that the engineers believed they saw two objects outside where there was actually only one.

Doctor Murphy concluded his treatise by recommending that only the highest quality plate glass be used thereafter in front cab windows, “Then,” he said, “only dirt, rain and snow – all of which can easily be brushed off – will prevent good vision at all times, and the movement of the engine will have no effectiveness in reducing the distinctness of objects seen through it.” Other wide awake railroad doctors took up the case, and before long plate glass was the accepted material in cab windows.

Even the best of glass still permitted visual aberrations, unless it was placed in the window at the right angle. For instance, until about 25 years ago, whenever the firebox door was opened on most engines the glow of the coal caused a reflection in the front window, making it impossible for the engineer to see anything but his own image in the glass. A North Western engineer named C.M. Goodrich worked out a plan whereby the front window was set in such a position as to greatly reduce the angle of incidence and refraction, thereby projecting the image of the cab interior against the side of the cab itself instead of directly back toward the engineman. This device was adopted in 1910 by Santa Fe and the C&NW, with other systems following suit.

Goodrich overcame another difficulty which bothered his fellow engineers on both day and night runs in the winter time. Frost which accumulated on windows often made glass practically impossible to see through. The C&NW hogger invented a small shutter which pivoted near the forward outside edge of the window frame. In this position, it acted as a scoop, directing a current of air through a series of perforations, past a deflector plate, and in a thin film across the interior face of the window. This kept the frost from forming. The shutter was so arranged that the engineer or fireman could easily move it to cover the perforations and cut off the flow of air across the window when the draft became uncomfortable inside the cab.

All of the glass used in cabs is not for windows and gages. Western Pacific engines 122 and 124 are so filled with mirrors that, according to Jack R. Bell, who occasionally fires those oil burners, “you can see the water columns behind you almost more plainly than the roadway in front.” Incidentally, Jack says the seats of these engines are flush with the windows, making it more comfortable to fire standing up than in a sitting position.

Seating facilities in engines used to consist of cushioned boxes in which the crew could also keep their lunch pails, changes of clothes and other belongings. Some of these seat boxes were so big a man could almost fit in them. However, many engineers and firemen found it tiresome perching on hard benches. There was some relaxation in standing, but even that didn’t help much when they were already weary. During the first World War a man in Montgomery Alabama, named J.A. Freeman, came to the relief of suffering enginemen by designing a seat with a back. His invention consisted of a simple upholstered seat with a back rest made out of a length of duck canvas. The top of the canvas was held up by a strap and spring attached to the ceiling of the cab. When not in use this canvas could be unhooked at the top and rolled up under the seat. Whether or not the contraption was ever applied to any engines other than experimentally we do not know, but something better in cab seats was not long in making an appearance.

Nowadays there are all kinds of cab seats, ranging from the boxes of early days to swiveling bucket type seats as comfortable as the best theatre chairs. Even the modern version of the old seat box now has inner springs, leather upholstering and soft back rests.
Other refinements now provided for the comfort of the engine crews include heaters which keep the cab warm in cold weather by means of coils attached to the boiler. Many engines have ventilating blowers to prevent smoke from accumulating in the cab while running through long tunnels. These ventilators come in mighty handy. Here’s a typical story of how things used to be before they were standard equipment:

James R. Ashworth, a fireman who worked on the Chattanooga Southern back in 1905, was so short he could practically hide in the long seat-boxes of the 600-class engines he stoked. One summer day. Jim was firing through a tunnel with an engineer named “Dusty” Miller at the throttle. The fireman knew how the fumes invaded the cab during that long underground ride so on this occasion he climbed into the seatbox and closed the lid, leaving his lags sticking out a bit. The head brakeman, a burly 200-pounder, was standing in the front corner of the cab holding a handkerchief over his face as protection against the smoke. The heat and fumes got too much for the big fellow and he collapsed on the fireman’s seat. The lid of the box almost smashed Jim’s legs. The little fireman hollered from the depths of the seat-box, “Help, Dusty; I’m dying!”

“Die, *** you, I can’t help you,” replied the engineer wearily. He was struggling hard enough to keep the train under control while almost gagging from the odor himself. Jim survived the ordeal. In fact, he is still alive, now wheeling streamliners over the Florida East Coast line.

To make up for the absence of storage space under the seats in many present day engines the builders turn out such accessories as lockers and clothes boxes for the convenience of locomotive crews. When the head brakeman hangs around in the cab which has all this added equipment conditions are apt to be rather crowded. As an example of how this problem can be solved, the B&O made an extension of the cab on some of its S-1 power, giving the brakeman a seat and window of his own.

Original City of San Francisco incorporated first use of automotive type hood.


[:I] A man wanted to get married. He was having trouble choosing among three likely candidates. He gives each woman a present of $5,000 and watches to see what they do with the money.
The first does a total make over. She goes to a fancy beauty salon gets her hair done, new make up and buys several new outfits and dresses up very nicely for the man. She tells him that she has done this to be more attractive for him because she loves him so much. The man was impressed.
The second goes shopping to buy the man gifts. She gets him a new set of golf clubs, some new gizmos for his computer, and some expensive clothes. As she presents these gifts, she tells him that she has spent all the money on him because she loves him so much. Again, the man is impressed.
The third invests the money in the stock market. She earns several ! times the $5,000. She gives him back his $5000 and reinvests the remainder in a joint account. She tells him that she wants to save for their future because she loves him so much. Obviously, the man was impressed.
The man thought for a long time about what each woman had done with the money he'd given her. Then, he married the one with the biggest boobs. [:I]

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Tom and the rest of the early risers. Just Time for a coffee and a diet crumpet from the Mentor Village Bakery.

Fear i may have picked up the flu bug. But willl still have to see my appointments for the day. unfortunately also have nine appointments tomorrow as well.

Anyway back to the subject at hand the coverage everyone contributred to the NH yesterday must have filled in some of the blanks about that road. Did learn much I didn't know.

Enjoyed the Cab series by Barndad and the incline by Rob.

PASSENGERFAN AL'S STREAMLINER CORNER # 59

CHIEF AT&SF Trains 19-20 January 31 1938 Chicago – Los Angeles daily All –Pullman 2,224 miles 48 hours
by AL

Second only to the SUPER CHIEF the CHIEF became the first All-Pullman streamliner between Chicago and the west coast. Even though the train was steam powered the CHIEF was in every respect a gleaming stainless steel streamliner. New 4-6-4 Hudson locomotives powered the train from Chicago to La Junta. From there to Los Angeles the CHIEF consists were powered by new 4-8-4 Northern locomotives. The CHIEF streamlined consists were ten car trains and six sets were required for daily operation. The following consist is an example of a CHIEF consist. Pullman Standard built the sleeping cars while Budd built the feature cars.

On January 21, 1938 the Santa Fe CHIEF became a lightweight streamlined all Pullman daily Chicago – Los Angeles train. The CHIEF was assigned new modern 4-6-4 Hudson Locomotives and tenders between Chicago and La Junta, Colorado and from that point to Los Angeles new 4-8-4 Northern Locomotives & tenders were assigned as power. Only one of the new Hudson Locomotives was streamlined the 3460, it was painted in two shades of Blue with a stainless steel band separating the colors. This engine quickly earned the nickname “BLUE GOOSE” The CHIEF at that time was an all Pullman Extra Fare train and its equipment was nearly identical to that built for the second streamlined SUPER CHIEF. The new lightweight streamlined CHIEF operated on a 48-hour schedule in each direction and all six consists were ten cars in length with a passenger capacity of 151. Pullman Standard built all Sleeping cars, Budd of Philadelphia constructed feature cars of the new CHIEFS. The CHIEF would receive diesels following WW II with PA diesels the postwar ALCO 2,000 hp passenger diesels that earned the title honorary steam locomotive being those first assigned. These units were assigned in A-B-A sets of 6,000 hp. The CHIEF would receive BIG Dome Lounge cars in 1956 and add Coaches shortly thereafter. Unfortunately as passenger load counts slowed the CHIEF was discontinued in 1968, as there were more trains than necessary for the shrinking passenger train business between Chicago and Los Angeles. But the Santa Fe CHIEF will always be remembered as one of the finest.
The following is a sample consist as found between Chicago and Los Angeles in 1938.

CONSIST

3460 Streamlined 4-6-4 Hudson & Tender (Chicago – La Junta)

3765 4-8-4 Northern Steam Locomotive & Tender (La –Junta – Los Angeles)

1380 SAN MIGUEL Baggage Barber Shop 9-Crew Dormitory 14-Seat Lounge Car

DINNEBITO 14-Section Sleeping Car

CHACO 17-Roomette Sleeping Car

HOTEVILLA 4-Compartment 2-Drawing Room 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

1371 NAMBE 12-Crew Dormitory Barber Shop Bar 24-Seat Club Lounge Car

1475 36-Seat Dining Car

HUALPAI 4-Compartment 2-Drawing Room 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

SALAHKAI 8-Section 2-Compartment 2-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

SEGATAO 8-Section 2-Compartment 2-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

BETAHTAKIN 4-Drawing Room 1-Double Bedroom 17-Seat Lounge Observation

The following is a list of the cars built for the six CHIEF train sets in 1938.

Baggage Barber Shop 9-Crew Dormitory Buffet 14-Seatr Lounge Cars (Budd Built)
1380 SAN MIGUEL
1381 SAN MARCIAL
1382 SAN FERNANDO
1383 SAN SIMON
1384 SAN IGNACIO
1385 SAN PASCAL

14-Section Sleeping Car (P/S Built)
DINNEBITO – GANADO – HAKATAI – HAVASU – HOSKINNINI – HOTAUTA

17-Roomette Sleeping Cars (P/S Built)
CHACO – CHINLE – MAITO – OTOWI – PARIA – TONTO – TUBA

4-Compartment 2-Drawing Room 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Cars (P/S Built)
HOTEVILLA – HUALPAI – JADITO – KAIBITO – KAYENTA - KIETSIEL – KLETHLA – MOENCOPI – MOHAVE – NANKOWEAP – NASLINI – POLACCA

12- Crew Dormitory Barber Shop Bar 24-Seat Lounge Cars (Budd Built)
1371 NAMBE
1372 PICURAS
1373 TESUQUE
1374 SANTA CLARA
1375 MOENCOPI
1376 ZUNI

36-Seat Dining Cars (Budd Built)
1475 – 1484

8-Section 2-Compartment 2-Double Bedroom Sleeping Cars (P/S Built)
SELAHKAI – SEGATOA – SHANTO – SINYALA – TOADLENA – TOHATCHI – TOLANI – TOLCHICO – TONALEA – TOREVA – TOROWEAP – TYENDE – WUPATKI – YAMPAI

4-Drawing Room 1-Double Bedroom 17- Seat Lounge Observation (P/S Built)
BETAHTAKIN – BILTABITO – CHAISTLA – CHUSKA – COCONINO – DENEHOTSO


The CHIEF was dieselized in 1945 when freight diesels were converted to passenger service and repainted in the passenger war bonnet scheme. Although already streamlined since 1937 except for 1947-1950 when cars borrowed from the CHIEF pool were needed for the SUPER CHIEFS to become daily trains. At that time the except for 1947-1950 when cars borrowed from the CHIEF pool were needed for the SUPER CHIEFS to become daily trains. At that time the CHIEFS operated with some heavyweight cars in there consists such as lounge and head end cars. The Santa Fe upgraded the CHIEFS just before Christmas 1950. The CHIEF train sets received the 1947 SUPER CHIEF sleeping cars and got back the lounge cars that had been borrowed from the CHIEF pool. Once again the CHIEF was streamlined and the new sleeping cars gave the CHIEF all – room status the same as the SUPER CHIEF. This gave the Santa Fe two daily all Pullman All-Room streamliners between Chicago and Los Angeles. The following is sample consist of December 1950.

EXAMPLE CONSIST

75L ALCO PA-2 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

75A ALCO PB-2 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Booster Unit

75B ALCO PA-2 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

1386 SAN CLEMENTE Baggage 5-Crew Dormitory Buffet 30-Seat Lounge Car

BLUE BAY 10-Roomette 2-Compartment 3-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

BLUE GEM 10-Roomette 2-Compartment 3-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

REGAL CENTER 4-Compartment 2-Drawing Room 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

1390 Barber Shop Bar 27-Seat Lounge 12-Crew Dormitory Car

1484 36-Seat Dining Car

REGAL CITY 4-Compartment 2-Drawing Room 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

REGAL CREEK 4-Compartment 2-Drawing Room 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

BLUE FLAG 10-Roomette 2-Compartment 3-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

BETAHTAKIN 1-Double Bedroom 4-Drawing Room 17-Seat Lounge Observation

The CHIEF received the Big Dome Lounge cars from the EL CAPITAN in 1956 when the EL CAPITAN became a Hi-Level train.

The CHIEF was discontinued March 13, 1968 no longer able to fill its cars with enough passengers to pay its way.


TTFN AL

[siberianmo]

Good Morning!

Two early risers 'round here this Friday! With cloudy skies, but temps warming up into the 40s, looks like we're going to miss that storm system heading toward the northeast. Rats![tdn] We want snow - we want snow - we want snow!

G'day to ya, Sir Doug and I see my reading list has backed up quite a bit now with Cabs #5 added to the stack![swg] I'll get a roundtuit![swg]

You've got snow[?] Arghhhhhhhhhh! What in the world have we done wrong in this part of mid-Continent USA[?]

Hey Al we don't need that "bug" 'round here - so perhaps we need to place you and your Permanent Stool in the Quarantine Section - you know, in the back, in the corner, where it's dark! (an old "Flip Wilson" line . . . )[swg] Hope it doesn't lay you up for too long - lousy feeling fer sure, fer sure - hang in there![tup]

Your Streamlliner #59 is TOO SOON!! The Santa Fe is to be featured on Tuesday!! Check the SUMMARIES! Nevertheless, I'm sure the guys will enjoy it.[tup]

Thanx to both of you for your inclusiveness this AM and great to see ya at the bar![tup]


Which brings to mind something I should comment on regarding these "Theme Days." The idea is to focus on a particular railroad for the day. I will include one of my Railroads from Yesteryear to kick it off - then hope the guys pick up on it. That's it! Posting other lengthy "stuff that isn't on the "theme" is rather counterproductive and would be better held off 'til the next day. THANX![tup]

Later!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

Hello Again!

Seems that I neglected to acknowledge Sir Rob!! Guess that happens when one Posts so #&^#% late at night![swg]

As always, appreciate your taking the time to visit with us, especially after working long hours.[tup] By the by, your Email was received - thanx for the insight![tup]

I've added your Classic Juice on the Hamilton Inclines to the 'stack' in the "Reading Room" (aka: Rat's Patoot Room!)[swg]

Glad you appreciated the "stuff" on the New Haven, a mighty fine road, fer sure, fer sure!

Complaining Canadian[?] Those terms don't fit! I married one and she NEVER complains. Must be different "strains" of Canadians, eh[?][swg] We sailors like to say that complainers are like Sea Gulls, all they do is eat, sqauak, and poop![swg]

Later!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[trolleyboy]

Morning Tom a large OJ and one lite breakfast for me. You will note that I have stopped ordering the prune danish's from the bakery for the moment as the one orderer of said confection is not normally in on our breakfast serving times. Also Tex had gotten rather fond of them and well, Boris isn't the one cleaning up after him. [:O][:(!]


Doug Interesting stuff on cabs #5. I had never thought of the glass quality on locomotives until I read this installment. Come to think of it , when we look out the windows on our equuipment at the museum you can tell the different quality of the plate of glass. The operators windows ( as long as they are original glass ) appear to be of better quality, when you look out the side passenger windows on most of the cars you can see the graining in the glass ( faint vertical viens ) in the glass itself,not that noticable at a glance but if one had to satre through it all the time while watching for signals etc it would be a strain for sure. BTW nice little joke at the end, and oldy but goody. [swg] I probably would have picked the same one myself [:-^]

Tom I don't know I don't think I'm a seagull, though I do and have refered to some of my nieces and nephews as such at least when they were under the age of self control aka toilet trained. I think Tex fits the seagull bill around here,always watch out for the landmines [:O][xx(] I had a bit of snow here yesterday amybe half an inch, of coatrse not 45 minutes up the road in Kitchener they got royally dumped on. A friend emailed me a picture of his backyard knee-deep drifts, he's 6'1" truly proves the banana belt I live in weatherwise.

Al Nice streamliner as per always.I alway's liked the Chiefs equipment the best got the best I suppose. Take care of that flu,and no we don;'t wnat it in here at the bar. If you would like I can have the girls Helga & Hilda whip up their beer and saurkraut mustard plasters to help releave the conjestion. That or some over the counter stuff might work.

Well gents I'm away for now back soon.

Rob

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Bar Chandler Rob here in the daylight![?][:O][%-)]

Your comment about the "joke" at the end of Doug's Post made me take a look! Wunnerful - makes perfect sense to me![swg] Good one, Doug!

Neil Diamond wrote an entire score f(1973) for Jonathan Livingstone Seagull - so, to be associated with such prominence should be considered a honor![swg]<grin>

I cannot recall the last time snow was anywhere near knee-deep in these parts - no matter how tall one happens to be. An upside down world, I tell ya it's a conspiracy![swg]

Prune Danish remains a "staple" from the ovens of The Mentor Village Bakery, where the motto is "We keep 'em loose as a goose with moves to groove!" Or something like that ...... [swg]

Good to see ya![tup]

Enough! Time for yet another surprise Post! Stay tuned ......

[siberianmo]

Significant events in Canadian RR History during the month of February.


*February 25th, 1832: The Champlain & St. Lawrence Railroad becomes the first Canadian railroad charter. The route runs from Dorchester (St. Jean) to a point near Laprairie on the St. Lawrence.

*February 15th, 1881: By Royal Charter, the Canadian Pacific Railwaybecomes incorporated, pursuant to the Act. Included in the terms are the railways Port-Arthur-Selkirk-Winnipeg-Emerson and Port Moody-Savona. Additionally the CPR receives a subsidy of $25 million and 25 million acres of land.


*February 24th, 1888 The Grand Trunk Railway acquires the Northern & Northwestern Railway, 494 miles long.


*February 1898: The first railway in North America to illuminate its cars with acetylene gas in the Pontiac & Pacific Junction Railway.


* February 16th, 1931: The first break through in the tunneling under the Plains of Abraham to Quebec City’s Wolfe’s Cove Harbour Terminal.


* February 10th, 1950: The Canadian National Railway assumes control of the Temiscouata Railway, with trackage from Rivière du Loup to Edmundston and from Edmundston to Connors.


* February 9th, 1951: The Royal Commission on Transportation produces its report from the Turgeon Commission.


* February 16th, 1951: A self-propelled rail diesel car (RDC-1) begins testing with the Canadian National Railway between Ottawa and Montreal).


* February 1952: Lagauchetiere Street, Canadian National Railways tunnel station in Montreal is demolished for the laying of more trackage into Central Station.


* February 1st, 1953: A Budd RDC is placed into trial service on the Mont Laurier-Montreal run of the Canadian Pacific Railway.


* February 13th, 1954: With construction begun in 1950, the Quebec North Shore & Labrador Railway opens between Sept Isles, Quebec and Schefferville, Labrador.


* February 4th, 1958: The Kellog Commission provides its findings on the use of firemen on diesel locomotives.


* February 14th, 1989: Vancouver’s Skytrain opens the New Westminster to Columbia Expo Line.


* February 8th, 1986: Hinton, Alberta is the site of a head on collision between a VIA Rail passenger and Canandian National freight trains; claiming 23 lives.


* February 1st, 1989: Canadian National Railways drops the caboose from its freight trains.


* February 26th, 1999: Ontario Southland begins operations using the CP Port Burwell subdivision between Ingersoll and Tillsonburg, Ontario.


Information contained in this compilation was obtained from internet public domain sources and materials from my private RR library collection. The use of this information is strictly for pleasure without intent of monetary reward or profit of any kind.


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

Did you miss January’s “Significant events in Canadian RR History” on page 215[?] Click the URL:
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=215&TOPIC_ID=35270


Those who acknowledge the other guy, get acknowledged!

[LoveDomes]

Hi Tom

[wow] Am I the only customer since this morning[?] Incredible for a Friday, I'd say. Surely don't get it ....

I enjoyed that piece on the Canadian RR events for February.[tup] Must admit, I didn't quite understand it all - but perhaps Rob will enlighten us when he resurfaces.

Sorry I don't have anything prepared for today, but things have been a bit hectic in my house lately. Nothing to be concerned about, just the "normal" BS of everyday domestic life![swg] (Hope she isn't reading over my shoulder!!!)

We're bracing for a storm that is supposed to turn this place into a winter wonderland. So the hatches are battened down, full provisions in the reefers, beer is cold, wife is warm, what else can a man wish for[?] By the way, I REALLY got a kick out of that joke Doug slipped in at the end of his Cabs, Part V!![swg]

Sorry, but I must check out for now. I'll try to make it back a bit later for NY style pizza and lots of brew!!

Whoooooops! Before I get Tweeeeeeted! how a about a quick one[?] Aw, just make it a Bud Light - thanx![swg] And here's a ten spot for the track gang's beer fest later on this evening.[tup]

Until the next time!

Lars

[siberianmo]

G'day Guys!

Now tell me - doesn't this just make you WANT to take a train trip[?]

Wabash #1601 observation dome (courtesy: www.trainweb.org)


Enjoy!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[LoveDomes]

Hello Tom

How about a family size NY style pizza with Italian sausage and pepperoni - half and half if you please - and my wife and I will take a table over there by the window if that's ok! Oh yes, two pitchers of Schaefer should do it.

Just looking at that consist of dome cars on the Wabash kind of brings a sadness to me. While I never traveled that road, nor did I ever see any of the cars, any train with domes simply "does it" for and to me![swg]

There are absolutely few experiences in life that pleases me more than to sit in a dome car, drink in hand, taking in the views and letting the world glide on by.[yeah] Now THAT's living, my friend, THAT's living![tup][tup]

Guess I'm in a reflective state of mind tonite - oh well, I'm sure the wife will figure a way to change that![swg] Oooooooooooops, sorry Honey, didn't think you were listening!

We'll be sticking around for a bit ..... so keep the faith! Dome cars forever!

Lars

[passengerfan]

Good Afternoon Tom and the rest of the gang. Have to get out of bed and keep checking the forum am I nuts or what. Anyway will hide in the back room and try a double CR and I'll buy a round for the house at the same time.
Saw the posting of the Wabash Blue Bird picture always a favorite day train of mine though I never actually ever rode it.
Any train with that many domes ceratinly got Lars attention.
Hope this post helps satisfy his lust for domes.

WABASH
Dome Cars
By Al



The Wabash received its second postwar diesel powered streamlined train in January 1950. Unlike the earlier CITY OF KANSAS CITY delivered in November 1947by American Car & Foundry, the new BLUE BIRD was a Budd built streamliner. The earlier train was built of steel and painted in the beautiful blue and white paint scheme of the Wabash. The new streamliner in stainless steel also received Wabash blue between the fluted panels. The earlier CITY OF KANSAS CITY operating a daily round trip between St. Louis and Kansas City was built as a seven-car train powered by a single EMD E7A.
The new BLUE BIRD inaugurated February 26, 1950 was a six-car train as built, with four of those cars domes. Three were coach domes numbered 200-202 with the standard 24-seats in the dome and 54-coach seats on the main level 20-forward of the dome and 34 to the rear of the dome with large bathrooms located beneath the domes. The fourth dome was a dome parlor observation identical to those built for the earlier Burlington VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS. The Wabash Dome observation 1601 featured 24 seats in the dome, 9-parlor seats on the main level forward of the dome and 18-parlor seats aft of the dome. There were two additional lounge chairs that were sold as parlor space when the car was full located at the rear of the car in the rounded end. These seats were sold at parlor rates when the car was fully booked. Beneath the dome a 5-seat parlor drawing room with private restroom and a pair of restrooms for the parlor car patrons. The 1601 operated by Pullman unlike the Burlington who operated their parlor cars with Burlington personnel.
The Wabash advertising referred to the BLUE BIRD as a Domeliner, this reference would later refer to all UP streamliners equipped with domes.
The new BLUE BIRD operated a daily round trip between St. Louis and Chicago northbound in the morning and late afternoon departure southbound, the new Domeliner powered by a single EMD E8A was the only Chicago – St. Louis train equipped with domes prior to Amtrak.

24-SEAT VISTA DOME 54 REVENUE SEAT COACHES Budd Company January 1950 (Built for and assigned to BLUE BIRD)

200-202

24-SEAT VISTA DOME 5-SEAT PARLOR DRAWING ROOM 29-SEAT PARLOR OBSERVATION Budd Company Plan: 9525 Lot: 9652-037 (Built for and assigned to BLUE BIRD)

1601

From the beginning of streamlined BLUE BIRD operation the demand for Parlor seats exceeded the capacity of the 1601. With that in mind the Wabash ordered a single dome parlor car from Pullman Standard. The reason the car was not a Budd car as the rest of the BLUE BIRD consist was simply the fact that the latter manufacturer was busy with other orders and the cost for a single car was prohibitive. Thus the BLUE BIRD became one of those rare trains to operate with domes from two manufacturers in the same consist. The new Dome parlor delivered in July 1952 was a painted car without fluted stainless panels, so always stood out when operated in the BLUE BIRD. The new car seated 24 in the standard flat glass paneled dome and beneath the dome was located the “BLUE BIRD Room”. This room with seating for eleven was for private parties and served as a private dining room or lounge. At other times the “BLUE BIRD Room” was used as a lounge for all parlor passengers. The car featured a 5- seat parlor drawing room with its own private bathroom, and 21-parlor seats on the main level. The new Pullman Standard built car was numbered 1602 and like the 1601 was operated by Pullman, as were all Parlor cars on the Wabash.
This overabundance of domes in the BLUE BIRD did not last long as one of the coach domes was transferred to the CITY OF KANSAS CITY giving that train dome status.
In later years the Wabash would assign one of the dome parlors to the BANNER BLUE between St. Louis and Chicago. Thus the Wabash with five domes spread them among three trains.

24-SEAT VISTA DOME 5-SEAT PARLOR DRAWING ROOM 21-SEAT PARLOR CAR WITH 11-SEAT BLUE BIRD ROOM Pullman Standard July 1952 Plan: 7551B Lot: 6904 (Built for and assigned to BLUE BIRD)

1602

One final dome was built for the Wabash part of the last new dome car order built in November – December 1958. This order was unusual in two ways first they were the only coach domes built by Pullman Standard with curved glass panels, and Pullman Standard built the seven dome coaches to American Car & Foundry plans for the Wabash and Union Pacific. They were duplicates of the AC&F built coach domes delivered to the Union Pacific in 1955 for the CHALLENGER and CITY OF PORTLAND. The Wabash received one and the UP received five of these new dome coaches painted in full streamliner colors for operation in the CITY OF ST. LOUIS train sets operating between St. Louis and Los Angeles. The Wabash Dome Coach car was numbered 203 continuing the number sequence from the Budd built dome coaches built for the BLUE BIRD. Like the earlier dome coaches built for the UP the seating in these cars was 36 on the main level with a pair of large restrooms beneath the dome.

24-SEAT ASTRA DOME 36-SEAT COACHES Pullman Standard November – December 1958 (Built for and assigned to CITY OF ST. LOUIS)

Wabash

203

Union Pacific

7011-7015

TTFN AL

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Good to see both Lars & Al here tonite![tup] From the sounds coming from the Pool Room, I'd say the Track Gangs of the Can-Am, CN & CP have arrived. Both tables are rockin' and undoubtedly this is the start of something "big!"[swg]

Send another pitcher of Schaefer over to where Lars and his lady are sitting. Thanx Lucy![swg]

Good stuff on the Wabash Al although the "theme" is perhaps better suited for my other thread - it will "work" here as well![tup] And by the by - thanx for the round!![tup][tup]

Lars Your ten spot is long gone and we're dipping into the "Lars box" for more![swg] Those Track Gang guys can surely drink up a storm and the more they do, the better the pool shots!<grin> Uh-oh, I heard a <crash> - Boris go find Leon and make yourselves "known" back there .... don't want the joint broken up.<geesh>

All kinds of thoughts runnin' through my head tonite - wondering whether this dwindle-down effect of the regulars is a sign of things to come. Ya know, we really only have a few who are dependable - which is defined as Posting at least once per day. We've really changed 'round here. Just think of this: what would it be like if I stopped Posting throughout the day[?][?]

Ruth take this NY style family-size pizza over to Lars' table. I think they are ready![swg]

Okay, Gents - I'll let the nite proceed without further comment .....

Later!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

A pint of Bathams and any Steak if there is any

Running late today and it seems quite lively in the back room not helped by TEX nipping a few of the track gang's ankles after they were laughing at the bandage on his tail, a left over from the groundhog incident[:-^].

A lot of good posts again today[tup]. with great info from AL on the NH and SantaFe sleepers looking forward to the RR from Yesteryear on Tuesday.

DOUG Thanks for the two cab posts I too had not given much tought to the cab widow glass altough I knew the later steam locos in the U.K. had angled windows to improve visabilty and cut down the glare from the fire at night.
Loved the joke. I had not heard it before [^]
Have sent E-Mail[tup].
Happy anniversary.

ROB thanks for info on the open cars and the photos. #1326 looks another credit to the museum[tup].
Great Classic Juice on the Hamilton Inclines if they could have been kept they would be a big tourist attracation today do you think[?].

TOM Thanks for the what happened this month on the Candian RRs Wonderful photo of the Wabash Domes for Lars and ALs follow up. Hope that you get over that flu quickly AL

TOM There was a locomotive depot near the center of Birmingham U.K. (sadly now recently closed) named SALTLEY and owing to the loco crews large track knowledge the crews were known as the Saltley seagulls( go everywhere and poop on everything)
[:)].
Would the answer to your question be . Sunday is the 10th anniversary of Our Place and if I am right do I get a free pint [?][:-,].
Oh well it seems that the track gangs are not getting any quieter but they have had a hard week so let me stand them a round. I'll go and see how the USA soccer team is getting on( kick-off was at 10) PETE.

[trolleyboy]

Good evening Tom and gents. I'll grab a deep dish Candian pizza please ( mushrooms, ham,sausage )and a pitcher of Back lable beer please.

Tom It's a bit distressing with the lake of numbers of posts lately, but I think that we are in a quality as opposed to quantity stage at the moment. tis better that way I think, so head up,here's a twenty to smooth over the ankle biting action in the back room.

Nice history lesson from canada's railway past. Sorry Lars some of those tidbits i don't know much about without going to my book library, if you jhave a specific you would like to know about ask either Tom or I may be able to come up with at least a partial answer. I'm fairly familiar with the OSR a couple of the museum members work for them, neet little shortline they roster quite a few old ex CP MLW locomotives. As well as the line Tom mentioned they run CPR's guelph JCT and switch the city of Guelph and they have several spurs which they operate in St thomas on Interchanging with CN.

Al g;ad to see that you picked up on Tom's wabash photo, figured you would. Nice to know that our esteemed propiator knows how to flick the members switches.[swg][:-^]

Pete You are right if those inclines were still around the people of Hamilton would likely still use them. My store is on Upper Wentworth Street. If you go to the muntain brow ( 10 blocks from the store ) The staircase is still there, coarse still usable in good weather, you can get an idea where the incline was but nature pretty much has taken over. The James street incline is now a road access , two lane pain in the but twisty awfull road it and two others one which is HWY 20, one called the Jolly cut are the only top to bottom access into the upper part of the city. That or you go the long way around on HWY 403 and the Lincoln Alexander Parkway.

1326 was the Museum's first car and the only one of 400 double truck TR's left. The car looks good but we do not run it often. It's an all wood including the underframe car. It was completely restored in the late 50's by the members and ran in regular service at the museum from 1971 when we openned to the public till the 1989-90. it's now needing another complete overhaul. new electrics and some new underframe work. we got it running with new airtanks and some cosmetic paint type work last July 2003 for the museum's 50th celebrations. We figure about $125K is realistically needed to completely restore the car to everyday use-not in the cards at the moment. still it's a fine static occational use piece. 1704 is a bit more of a basket case. It needs a complete rebuild as well-same kind of bucks. Unfortunatly it's not in viewable condition at the moment. Baby steps is the way of the museum, our new display barn has been the main thing the last 5 years or so and has taken up the bulk of our fund raising efforts. I'm told that it is going ahead finally this year, they have applied for the building permits. Once barn 4's up then we can get back to fund raising for the long term car restoration projects. 1326,1704,LE&N 797 , and TCR 55 ( our second car ) are likely the first priorities. all these cars are wood bodied so require bigger chunks of ca***o restore and maintain once they are operable.

Rob

[trolleyboy]

THE CLASSIC INDEX VER 3


CLASSIC JUICE

#1 The London and Port Stanley RY L&PS pg# 116
#2 The Niagara St Catharines & Toronto RY NS&T pg# 123
#3 The Montreal and Southern Counties MS&C pg# 131
#4 The Brantford & Hamilton RY B&H pg# 134
#5 The Berlin and Waterloo Street Railway B&WSR pg# 142
#6 The Nearside Car pg# 146
#7 The Peter Witt Story pg# 148
#8 The PCC Car pg# 157
#9 The Nippissing Central N&C RY pg# 140
#10 The Safety Car pg# 162
#11 CNR Electric Lines pg# 163
#12 The Toronto Civic Railway TCR pg# 180
#13 The TCR Cars pg # 180
#14 The Toronto Suburban Railway TSR pg# 211
#15 Canadian Streetcar and Electric Locomotive Builders pg# 212
#16 US Streetcar and Electric Locomotive Builders ( that built for Canada ) pg# 217
#17 The Grand River Railway GRR pg# 223
#18 The Lake Erie and Northern Railway LE&N pg# 224
#19 The British Columbia Electric Railway BCER pg# 225
#20 Incline Railways of Hamilton pg# 242


CNR CLASSIC STEAM

#1 Huntsville Sub pg# 159
#2 Alliston Sub pg# 163
#3 Strathroy sub pg# 165
#4 Niagara Falls Passenger Trains pg# 170
#5 Passenger Trains on Brampton & Thorndale Subs pg # 170
#6 The " Roustabout " pg# 176
#7 Passenger trains to Palmerston pg# 182
#8 Southern On railmap pg# 183
#9 Speacial Frieghts on The Niagara Frontier pg# 191
#10 Speacial Freights on The Niagara Frontier Pt 2 pg# 191
#11 Passenger Train Profiles PT 1 pg# 198
#12 Passenger Train Profiles PT 2 pg# 198
#13 The Formation of The CNR pg# 218
#14 The CSR's ST Clair Branch pg# 226

CLASSIC CANADIAN ADS

#1 TH&B Doodlebug Ad for EMC pg# 153
#2 National Geographic Ad for CNR Circa 1929 pg# 209
#3 CNR Hotels Ad Circa 1932 pg# 209

[siberianmo]

SATURDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of POSTS

We open at 6 AM. (Don’t ask how we do that!)[swg]


The weekend is upon us! Fini***he week with a freshly brewed cuppa Joe, some pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery, and if you’re really hungry, try our <traditional> and <light> breakfast selections from the menu board![tup]

QUESTION: What date of significance does this coming Sunday represent[?][?] ANSWER: The 10th Month Anniversary of ”Our” Place!!! Pete Wins the Pint!![tup]


Daily Wisdom

A nickel ain’t worth a dime anymore.
(yogi-ism)


Info for the Day:

Railroads from Yesteryear may be found at:

Baltimore & Ohio (B&O)
#1: http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=233&TOPIC_ID=35270
Chesapeake & Ohio (C&O)
#2: http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=234&TOPIC_ID=35270
Pennsylvania (PRR)
#3: http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=237&TOPIC_ID=35270
New York Central (NYC)
#4: http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=240&TOPIC_ID=35270
New Haven (NYNH&H)
#5: http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=242&TOPIC_ID=35270

Santa Fe arrives next Tuesday! This will be the THEME for the DAY!

* Weekly Calendar:

Today: Steak ‘n Trimmin’s Nite!


SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 10 Feb 2006, 05:20:24 (242) Friday’s Info & Summary

(2) barndad Doug Posted: 10 Feb 2006, 06:06:38 (242) Inclusive Post & Cabs #5

(3) passengerfan Al Posted: 10 Feb 2006, 07:11:38 (242) Inclusive Post & Streamliner #59 – ATSF Chief

(4) siberianmo Tom Posted: 10 Feb 2006, 07:53:07 (242) Acknowledgments, etc.

(5) siberianmo Tom Posted: 10 Feb 2006, 08:06:58 (243) reply to trolleyboy

(6) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 10 Feb 2006, 10:53:08 (243) Inclusive Post, etc.

(7) siberianmo Tom Posted: 10 Feb 2006, 11:37:10 (243) reply to trolleyboy

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 10 Feb 2006, 11:44:25 (243) Significant Events in Canadian RR History – Feb

(9) LoveDomes Lars Posted: 10 Feb 2006, 15:38:14 (243) PM Post!

(10) siberianmo Tom Posted: 10 Feb 2006, 16:09:16 (243) Wabash Dome Pix

(11) LoveDomes Lars Posted: 10 Feb 2006, 16:43:38 (243) Pizza & beer!

(12) passengerfan Al Posted: 10 Feb 2006, 17:00:45 (243) Inclusive Post & Wabash Dome cars

(13) siberianmo Tom Posted: 10 Feb 2006, 18:41:42 (243) Acknowledgments, etc.

(14) pwolfe Pete Posted: 10 Feb 2006, 22:30:51 (243) Inclusive Post, etc.

(15) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 10 Feb 2006, 22:59:00 (243) Inclusive Post, etc.

(16) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 10 Feb 2006, 23:12:45 (243) Classic Index, ver 3



NOW SHOWING:

The Mentor Village Emporium Theatre
Double Features beginning Monday, January 30th!

. . . Sunday, February 5th thru 11th: The Titfield Thunderbolt (British 1953) starring: Stanley Holloway, Naunton Wayne, John Gregson & Sidney James – and – Breakheart Pass (1975) starring Charles Bronson, Ben Johnson & Richard Crenna.

Coming Attractions:

. . . Sunday, February 12th thru 18th: Bound for Glory (1976) starring: David Carradine, Ronny Cox & Melinda Dillon – and – Emperor of the North Pole (1973) starring: Lee Marvin, Ernest Borgnine & Keith Carradine.


That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[Anonymous]

Good morning Tom and fellow railfan/historians! I'll have just one light breakfast for the moment. Don't want to spoil my appetite for I-Hop in a few minutes [dinner]. Glad some of ya'll liked the joke yesterday [:-,]

I have to agree with Rob, when he states that although postings might seem to be slim these days, that the quality is unexcelled in our little cyber-bar. We can thank Tom's organization, hard-work and high standards for the contnued excellence of this thread, and a really great bunch of contributors who feel compelled to share their information. Each of us is finding their little nitches in the overall composition of material submitted, and it just seems to get better! By the way, Impressive index Mr. Rob. I can surely appreciate the time-consuming work of all your postings. Only 20-fingers Al has you beat in that area. The man is a typing machine!

In my case, having no rail stories of my own, I get material from books and old publications that I feel might be of interest to the people here. I also happen to have a huge railway museum practically in my back-yard where I volunteer as much time as work, family obligations and my wife will permit. As for posting here, I snatch whatever time I can find to catch-up on the doings at "Our Place" & submit the pre-typed series I put together over here. I'm not too good at following a particular theme, as I pretty much can only submit the material that's been prepared, but then I try on a later day to post something related to a subject already discussed. That's my version of an "encore" post, and as close to following a theme as I can get.

Anywho .... having said all that, I want to compliment Tom on his monthly Canadian RR history. This is the kind of information that helps me understand the history of railroading, and is much appreciated. I would love to take a trip on that 1601 observation dome, by the way.

Al, nice to see your post on the Wabash. I attended the Chicago Chapter meeting of the Railroad and Locomotive Historical Society last night, and the theme was Wabash service between here and St. Louis. Tom, there was a plethora of nifty RDC slides too!

Pete, if you e-mailed me, I either didn't get it, or I killed it. I'll e-mail you, and then you respond? I think you'll really like the "Fast Mail", and I'm looking forward to your comments.

Great to see you Lars! Here's my "groaner" for today

[:I] One day, a depressed crocodile decides to see his doctor about his problems. He says, "Doc, I'm not sure what's wrong with me. I don't feel like killing people anymore. I don't like attacking them, I don't like wrestling them in the water, and I definitely don't like eating them." The doctor goes over to his medicine cabinet, and pulls out several tiny blue pills. In amazement, the crocodile asks his doctor, "Doc, are those what I think they are?" The doctor replies, "Yes, I'm prescribing you some Viagra." Frustrated, the crocodile tells his doctor, "I'm not sure you understand -- have you been listening to a word I've said?" The doctor replies, "Of course I've been listening, you said you had a reptile dysfunction!" [:I]

[trolleyboy]

Morning Tom, a lage eye opening coffee and one of the large breakfast please. oh here's a ten for a round once the heavier stuff starts flowing.

Doug hey glad that you liked the index, I find it make's it easier for me to refer back to for encores etc.twenty fingered Al eh? Thaat would splain it I'm still using two fingers and a thumb[swg]

Your museum is luckey to be so close, we drive about an hour, still I like getting there at least once a week in the good weather.Heather will spend some quality time there on weekends as well during the summer,she essentially grew up there as her Mom and Dad joined when she was 2 months old.where most kids had a soother she had a trolley gong [swg]

Well worktime awaits so I'll duck back in for some encores later.

Rob

[siberianmo]

ENCORE! Saturday - ENCORE! Saturday

Here’s another Fallen Flag for the gang from Classic American Railroads:
first Posted on page 143

Kansas City Southern (KCS)

Headquarters: Kansas City, MO

Mileage:

1950: 962
2000: 2,995

Locomotives in 1963:

Diesel: 121

Rolling stock in1963:

Freight cars; 581
Passenger cars: 22

Principal routes in 1950:

Kansas City, MO-Shreveport, LA-Port Arthur, TX
Dallas, TX-Shreveport-New Orleans, LA
Minden-Alexander, LA

Passenger trains of note:

Flying Crow (Kansas City-New Orleans & Port Arthur)
Shreveporter (Hope-Shreveport)
Southern Belle (Kansas City-New Orleans & Port Arthur)


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

ENCORE! Saturday - ENCORE! Saturday

[siberianmo]

Good Mornin’!

Started off with some blue in the skies, but it’s now rather gloomy looking. No precip expected – temps around freezing (F) – just “one of those days.” BUT – it IS Saturday!![swg] That can’t be all bad, eh[?]


COMMENTARY: There are a few things ‘round here that somehow get under my skin – and they shouldn’t. They do – and I suppose each of us can be faulted for being – well, human.

Over the ten months (tomorrow) of the existence of ”Our” Place many customers have been “inducted” into our Order of the Stools. Some “graduated’ upward into the Permanent Stool category based on past performance and potential for being a “core supporter” of what we do ‘round here.

We’ve seen guys come ‘n go. We’ve witnessed some of our “core supporters” engage in the “hit ‘n run” Postings, which is so irritating and rather ignorant. We’ve seen several of our Order of the Stools guys Post elsewhere without stopping by the bar at all for that particular day. Others have Posted elsewhere and haven’t come by for hours later. We’ve also experienced a “drought” of sorts with some others where we they simply “disappear” for weeks. Many of these same people do not answer Emails – will not engage in the dialogue at the bar when asked direct questions – and obviously are not reading through the pages of Posts before “jumping in” with their own. How then are we to consider them as anything other than the run of the mill crowd we see on so many other threads[?]

The idea ‘round here is NOT to alienate, but to establish and maintain dialogue between those of us interested in keeping the thread ‘alive.’ For those who will not, I suggest that you take it elsewhere.

There, now I feel much, much better!


Okay, Guys – the idea today is to jump in on ENCORE! Saturday – dig deep and you’’ come up with something of interest![tup] After all, the dialogue ‘round here on weekends is rather Spartan – that’s why we do ENCOREs!

Some acknowledgments are in order:

pwolfe Pete
Posted: 10 Feb 2006, 22:30:51

You seem to have a way with the Track Gang crowd – for they’ve takin’ a likin’ to ya! Don’t know if THAT’s all good.[?] Anyway, once you start buying them drinks, they’ll become “yours” – are you prepared for THAT[?][swg]

Check this out:

Saltley Train Station [1854-1968] (sans Sea Gulls!!) (courtesy: Andrew Doherty; photo: Bob Essery)


trolleyboy Rob
Posted: 10 Feb 2006, 22:59:00, 23:12:45 and 11 Feb 2006 08:23:28

No question where YOUR “heart” is – right here![tup][tup][tup] It takes willingness and effort to get the most out of this thread, and you Sir Rob are one of a few who surely know how to engage on the Forums and this Thread! Thanx.

Good Index feature and certainly worth “bookmarking.”

Your comments in last night’s Post were the impetus behind MY commentary. Some things just need to be said. I do concur with you about the quality aspect of the Posts – something I have been saying for months – quality over quantity every time. HOWEVER, if this thread is to succeed not only for the few of us who keep it going, but to attract AND KEEP some new blood, the TIMING of the Posts surely could be better. We must try and keep this thread “up” on the Forum page. I just don’t think many of the guys “get it,” or perhaps care.

barndad Doug
Posted: 10 Feb 2006, 07:40:10

Appreciate your morning “rib tickler!” Perhaps not quite on the order of the one from your Cabs Part V – but a good way to begin the day, fer sure, fer sure![swg]

Your comments are well taken and bring to mind something that needs to be elaborated upon. One of the aspects of ”Our” Place that has “worked” for several of our guys is the feeling of BELONGING – as in finding a niche at the bar. We all have our strengths and weaknesses, our Achilles heels and our thick skins. However, when it comes to the subject of Classic Trains and the banter at the bar, I’d say we really are fortunate in having a “core” to draw from in order to keep it light, entertaining and educational. You surely are a fine example of all three![tup][tup][tup]

If it seems that the quality is getting better it is because several of you WANT it to be that way. The guys who participate regularly with the Sunday Photo Posting Days!, who pick up on the “Theme for the Day,” and join in for ENCORE! Saturdays are much more essential to the orderliness of things ‘round here and to the health of the bar than are those who simply Post and leave for days, or weeks at a time.

To all who bought the house a round – THANX! I’m sure the “bell tolled” for you – but I was fast asleep![zzz]

Later!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]


Stick around a few minutes AFTER POSTING - The information you MISS may be for YOU!

Those who acknowledge the other guy, get acknowledged!

[siberianmo]

ENCORE! Saturday - ENCORE! Saturday

first Posted on page 143

QUOTE: Here's a Post from "my" past with another thread that may be of interest here. Definitely a tale of Classic Trains! [tup]

I don't know why, but as of late, I've been thinking about an RDC (Rail Diesel Car) trip I took with my wife and a couple of friends back in 1999.

We were visiting Vancouver, BC and on what was supposed to be an "off day" - (they do what they want, we do what we want), I looked into booking a trip aboard BC Rail's "Cariboo Prospector" (that IS the way they spelled it) from North Vancouver to Lillooet, BC. The round trip was to take the entire next day with a 7 AM departure and return at 9 PM.

When the other couple found out what I had in mind, they too wanted to come along. So, I booked the four tickets and off we went.

The consist awaiting us that chilly March morning was four RDC's - from my pictures, it appears that we had two RDC3's and two RDC1's. The livery was the blue/white striped with blue red heralds.

For those who may not know, an RDC3 was designed as a combined passenger, baggage-express, and mail car. Over the years, BC Rail (formerly Pacific Great Eastern Railway) had these cars "rehabed" to provide a food preparation area in the baggage area. The coach portions were outfitted to include swing down tray tables (similar but larger that what the airlines use) along with much more comfortable seating than I recall when commuting aboard the Boston & Maine's RDC's back in the 1960's.

The RDC1 was initially designed to seat 89 passengers. BC Rail's version appeared to be about the same, but with the upgraded seating.

Our seats were in the RDC3 for both legs of the journey.

That morning was a gloomy, low overhanging cloudy start to the day. As we wound our way out of North Vancouver and followed the route to Squamish, I was a bit saddened that my wife would not get the beautiful view of the inlets off of Howe Sound. Really a picturesque place to see ......

From the train at Squamish we could see the industry of the area along with a couple of steam loco's (and I'm sure many of you will provide commentary on those!!). As I recall, only a relative handful boarded and off we continued to Whistler, gaining elevation as we got into the mountains.

What scenery! This was becoming a great day - as the sky cleared up almost as soon as we got into higher elevations. Waterfalls, gorges, cascading mountains - all of it at about 8 mph - as the engineer slowed the train to permit picture taking. Really something to see and keep etched in the memory banks (and of course, photo albums!).

We had about a 10 minute stop at Whistler - so I got off the train with my friend's wife (who was in dire need of a cigarette) whereas I wanted to snap some photo's of the RDC's (what else!). Surprise, surprise! There was about 4 feet of snow awaiting us - of course the platform was cleared - but the snow was all around us. Absolutely wonderful to see and experience - and the temperatures were more than tolerable. I wanted to stick around a bit, but the RDC's sounded the horn and we climbed back on board.

Now, I could go on and on and on about everything we saw along the way to Lillooet, but let me just say that the descriptions would somehow all sound alike - breathtaking, beautiful, stunning, great, fantastic, etc. ......

About 45 minutes south of Lillooet, we passed by two large glacial lakes - Anderson and Seton lakes. With sheer cliffs dropping nearly straight down to the water, we all marveled at just how those mountain goats managed to get where they were (much less back to where they came from)!! Unbelievable. Each lake has a story connected with it - perhaps for another session (unless someone wants to "jump" in to expound on them a bit ......[:)])

Lillooet sits in a valley and the town is within reasonable walking distance from the train station, which by the way is a great place to see. We had about 2 hours before the return trip, so we headed into town to see the sites.

We learned that Lillooet's history really goes back to the "gold rush" days when this was the staging area for the hordes of people heading north to stake their claims. We also met some very friendly and forthcoming folks who were more than willing to answer the questions so many had. My wife and I decided to hike up one of the hills - all developed - just to get some photo's looking down on the town. Glad we did, for those pictures really are now keepsakes. One of the people we met came out of her house and asked if we had "see the bear?" Hmmmmmm - apparently there had been a bear meandering around, but had not been seen for about an hour or so. That was comforting[:0]

The return trip was also something to remember, but alas, much of it was in dusk then darkness. The meal served on board and at our seats was fantastic. We had a choice of entrees and the food was plentiful, hot, and tasty. Forgot to say the same about our breakfast .......

Well, BC Rail no longer runs those RDC's or anything else. The trains all the way to Prince George (Lillooet is about half way) no longer run. Sad times for many along the route. I know, from friends we have in BC, that it was a heated debate right up until CN took over ...... The RDC's? Well, they've been "dispersed," another way of saying "sold" and from the best of what I've been able to ascertain - have all seen much better times. A couple have been relegated to tourism trains in the U.S., others as spare parts, and one or two either have or are supposed to wind up in a RR museum. There had been a rumor that VIA Rail wanted to purchase them, for the "Malahat," but apparently that fell through - budgets being what they always are - "insufficient"![:(]

So, that's it! Another chapter in riding Canadian Passenger Railroads comes to a close. But - wait, not so fast. My model railroad - Can-Am layout - has a mountain line. It is a point-to-point run, with LifeLike Proto 1000's RDC's in the BC Rail livery, making the run whenever I want them to! Even have mini-versions of Anderson and Seton Lakes! Check 'em out on my photo site - http://www.railimages.com/gallery/thomasweber

See ya'll later![tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

ENCORE! Saturday - ENCORE! Saturday

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

I'll save my free pint for later if I may and a cup of the Excellent coffee and a Bacon sandwich please.

Tom The track gang are not too bad really and I promise not to teach them any Rugby songs.Thanks for the photo of Saltley station. I believe the building on the right is one of the locomotive roundhouses, the diesel shed was behind the photographer's right shoulder. The bridge in the background is still there but it would be very hard to know that the station was ever there now.

I have tried to post an encore but have failed miserably but I very much enjoy the ones that are posted and I must agree with Rob and Doug about the quality in Our Place of late. The Railroads Of Yesteryear are a great success with a great article sparking off
some very knowledgeable follow ups, and can I say again how helpful the maps are to some not from these parts
MAYBE we are not getting so many in the bar but the ones that are there are drinking more.

ROB Have you a photo of the site of the old incline[?].
The cost of restoring the old equipment is stunning and I dont suppose it will get any cheaper [:(]. A new barn is money well spent though. The Severn Valley Railway has built a car shed which was very expensive but it will extend the time the cars have between overhauls. Some of the cars are ex L.N.E.R teak bodied cars which have been restored to immaculate condition and it would have been a pity to have them have to kept outside all the time.

DOUG Thanks for the E-Mail can you let me know if you get my reply [tup].

As it has passed noon I might try a pint now to celebrate being released from the shopping( it wont last long)[:-,] PETE.