"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

[bow][^][tup]CM3 on your elevation I'll have a pint of the usual to celebrate.

Good posts again today and the MO-PAC and PassengerfanALs follow up is well worth repeating.

You are right TOM the photos by Duke are well worth looking at.

ROB Thanks for the info on the Illnois Central going to the CN. I'm suprised that I havn't seen any of their locos yet even when I was in Green Bay. I hope you are getting on OK with the Wisdom tooth I had one out in January and it is no joke. Great stuff on the old railroad books some written years ago are real gems[yeah].

CM3 I guess the Tipple is the name over hear for a coaling plant [?].The later ones in the U.K. were monstrous concrete strcutures they were fed by 16 TON wagons which were hauled up the side and tipped in to the top. a mavellous sight for a youngster to see. Only the major depots had these. I believe that there are only two in the U.K. that have not been demolished
I suppose there were many different type of tipple in North America[?]. I guess this is a another part of the classic trains that has disappeared or have some survived.

Allow me to get a round in to celebrate PETE.

[siberianmo]

G'day Guys!

I see Rob has been active, and during the daylight! <Good Grief, can we handle it?> [swg]

Nice application of the TH&B to model railroading. I've always enjoyed getting one or two pieces of rolling stock that isn't "common," so to speak. Of course now that I'm modeling more contemporary "stuff," 40 ft box cars with "cat walks" are simply out of place. Although, I do have Fergies two box cars on sidings - in the CN and CP yards respectively. Gotta have 'em - great, great logo. Perhaps the best I've ever seen for a "home made" idea.

Glad you came up with something for "Pike Perspectives Day" or "Pike Day" in that I'm a bit reluctant to constantly bring up my this or my that. I think this gang has taken the time to browse my pix sites often enough to have seen it all before. The S Capades is a work in progress, however, so there should be something comin' on it one of these days (daze)!

Glad you mentioned Remembrance Day for I've got something planned for it. Watch the SUMMARIES [tup]

CM3 is indeed a welcomed addition to the "fold" and all one has to do is scroll back to the early entries to find his presence. A real steady, realiable and very interesting guy for sure. [tup]

Appreciate the clarification regarding the NYC and TH&B - I thought that was "it," but needed to have it confirmed. They say that comprehension is the 2nd thing to go ... [swg]

Later!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

Looks like I neglected to 'see' pwolfe Pete hiding in the shadows of my last Post! Howdy, Mate! [tup]

Always glad you stop by and you've certainly become a "fixture," round here.... [tup]

I completely neglected to mention the "Tipple" that CM3 brought up ... thanx for the clarification! [tup]

Thanx for the round ..... hate to rush off, but I gotta get crackin' .....

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[Anonymous]

Congratulations CM3, a reward long over due and singularly deserved over these past weeks.[tup] Sorry to hear of the oral surgery Rob. The extraction surely has not effected the "wisdom" of your posts.[^] Tom, make it a double Crown and soda please, thanks. I needed that after the brief power outage. To think Progress Energy is asking for the greatest rate increase in their history.[:(!] I won't go into that now.[V] Say, the 2 albums submitted by Fergmeister and Duke on "outdoor" live steam and a solid HO Pike (respectively) are really worth the viewing.[tup] If you haven't "scoped" their efforts, you've missed something.

Great Fallen Flag Tom as always.[tup] Many years ago, when there weren't the means or the room for a decent Pike, I began a stock pile of HO locos and rolling stock, knowing that some time "my day would come." A "find" of 5 older Blue Line (all metal), 85' smooth side passenger car kits [one in I.C. R.R. livery] was a "God send." The observation was the "I.C." with chocolate brown sides and bright orange window field, yellow striping, as I recall. The other 4 cars were of the U.P. gray roof, Armour yellow w/red lettering. The only problem was that I model B. & O. So, reluctently, I masked and repainted and lettered the cars for the B. & O. Another lucky 'find' was an American Beauty Line Pennsy 80' day coach in tuscan red and gold lettering and pin stripes. The quality was so fine, I couldn't bring myself to do a "makeover." I still have it in its' original box but it will likely remain a lonely yard Prop. If it were a Pullman sleeper in Pennsy garb, I could reconcile it appearing in a B. & O. or Southern Rwy. "lash up." However, striving for accuracy, a "day coach" probably wouldn't be Kosher.

So many fine Posts, so little time.[bow] First of all, its always great to rekindle the "Encore" of Roads like Mopac with the Budd memorabilia as a "clincher." The classifications of the steam locos in the U.S. are also a valued "refresher course" for many of us, thanks Tom. Rob, your "loss" has been our gain for the "Our" Place "data banks." I had no hint that the T. H. & B. interfaced with the N.Y.C in such a subtle way. Also, CM3, the addition of "Frimbo's" colorful references made the otherwise dry statistics on the Empire State Express come alive. This is yet another reason for the reward so diligently earned.[tup] [tup] [tup] Rob, ditto for your inclusion of the Norman Helm additions, really makes things "flow." Pete, yes "Tipple" is a term I've heard used in articles regarding coal operations here and in the U.K. I think the articles were, in re, the old Duluth, Messabe and Iron Range or the Clinchfield R.R. in the States.

"A day that will live in infamy" (Pearl Harbor) certainly hit the "memory locker" here. Like Tom, I was a toddler but deduced from my parents reactions that something very bad had occured. It was something very "bad" indeed for a little fella who desperatly wanted an electric train during the ensuing war years. Five long years later, Santa finally set an American Flyer Atlantic (4-4-2) under the X-mas tree. It was O gauge (before A.F. went to S gauge) and a all metal engine with four freight cars but, alas, no transformer![:(] Another year would pass before such electrical appliances became available to retailers. The "pu***oy" option was out as well, because the "worm gear" kept the driving wheels "locked."[:(] [:(] Eventually, my taste matured into the more accurate detailed HO models only to find I needed as much (or more) space for them as needed for the O gauge "tin plate" variety.[:(] [:(] [:(] Just one delimma after another![(-D]

Okay, I'll need to bring this installment to a close for now. Tomorrow I'll "fast forward" on to the most recent posts of today. Right, Boris, you had your special day Monday. Now its back to "business as usual." So hit that thing and I'll be history until later. Happy rails all.

[nickinwestwales]

Gentlemen all,my apologies for yet another extended absense-since my last note (seemingly posted to the wrong address-where did it end up Tom ? ) I have been caught with one of those 8-day weeks with extra evenings thrown in as a bonus-a sort of feast & famine kinda thing here-gotta get it whilst it`s there. Thought I`d stop in for a pint or two on my night off before the last big 3 show assault....sooo...a very large bloody mary for me,in deference to the convincingly gothic atmosphere conjured up for Boris`s birthday-the true old years night,when Herne leads the wild hunt over tree & under star and honest folk bar their door against the wee folk,intent upon mischief..........a large glass of whatever you are currently favouring [4:-)]TOM,a Molsons gold for ROB (or a small vial of pigs blood if he`s still in " Mittel Europ" mode) for TED,I think, a classic "Pink gin"-stick a bowl glass in the icebox for an hour,remove,pour in a measure of Angostura bitters,swirl,empty-refill with large Plymouth gin,swirl gently,serve......repeat as req.---and of course,a round for the house in order to celebrate the recent elevation of CM3 to a rank more appropriate to his station-a good teller of tales is welcome in any company,and in this house we are especially favoured in that we have a man amongst us who can not only tell a tale ( a rare skill in itself ) and bring alive his love of the subject, But also had the good sense to make full & extensive notes of his experiences for later reference--[4:-)]TOM-If he wont publish of his own accord we will have to arrange a visit............................................[:-^]---BK-nice piece on the X2000,you even used Nordic grammatical constructions,neat [^]...you must have done some studying--PETE-Awright mate-how`dya holiday go ?-did see something earlier,will go back & check, ROB-What do you mean--I thought " Canadian Tire" was the Canadian National bank-do you mean my sister has been lying to me all these years-these notes arn`t real money,She told me I could exchange them for dollars when I came over to visit.............oh dear...........this could prove embarassing.
Right chaps,thats me done. Will try to call in between now & then,be happy ,lucky or better still -both,nick[C=:-)]

[siberianmo]

Evenin’ Guys!

A couple of most welcomed Posts from two of our Permanent Stool members, Manager Ted and Chief Chef [C=:-)] Nick [yeah] [tup]

You covered quite a bit of ground with that Post of yours, Ted, power failure notwithstanding. What to say [?] If it isn’t the ‘puter Gemlins, now the utility company is out to getcha! [swg]

Sir Nick A bit of a gentle breeze from across the pond … blowing against the forces of nature, I should add! [swg] Always makes the capstone to a day when you visit with us and leave a bit of whimsy and some challenging thoughts to ponder. Happy that you’ve returned, especially on this day of revelry for CM3. In spite of our dwindling numbers, those who have stuck with it are making our cyber bar ‘n grill a happen’ place! [yeah]

Ted My airline pilot friend and neighbor is a consummate model builder. He too paints, letters, decals, and weathers trains, planes and automobiles (sounds like a movie title to me!). Anyway, I know my limitations and that’s an aspect of the hobby best left to those with the talent and patience. I’m the kinda guy who seemingly ALWAYS has to “touch” before the paint dries or “jiggles” before the glue sets.

In one of my display cases for retired HO “stuff” are about a dozen passenger cars (heavyweight - smoothsides and stainless) representing the railroads that I have traveled aboard. Got most of ‘em from IHC and they really provide me with a good feeling just to look at ‘em. Pennsy in several liveries – same for NYC; then the NH, CNJ, Southern and B&O. These are not complete consists, just a car or three for each road. So, I can well appreciate your keeping that Pennsy car ‘as is.’ It will look terrific on a siding, or one day in a display case.

Nick So, I’m not the only one who thought the “funny money” from Canadian Tire was the national currency! [swg] By the by – you owe me at least one Email response, or YOU’LL be on the receiving end of a visit – from – Vito the Hit! [tdn] <grimmmmmm> I hear cement shoes are coming back in style ……. [swg]

Well Gents, it’s been a loooooooong day. Got some work done out in the south forty – leaves, leaves and more leaves. We have nearly 30 trees just waitin’ for me to clean the yard, then deposit a bit more – clean – drop some more, you get the point. Also made my monthly trip to the barber to get my “dose” of chairside wisdom. I don’t know where or how they do it, but these guys who work in the “clip shop” are as astute a bunch of interesting guys – next to the customers of ”Our” Place that I’ve ever had the pleasure of associating with. I always leave with a smile, and a bit “grounded” insofar as any notion of self-importance is concerned.

Thanx for the rounds, Ted ‘n Nick! [tup]

Catch ya in the mornin’! Leon the Night Man has the bar!

So, whatillyahave [?]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[nickinwestwales]

Hey big fella-how`s yer luck,nice to get back amongst good company-will probly have to take a back seat this weekend ( some very late nights in store ) but will try and get in for fish and chips after tomorrows show--fondest regards to all,sleep well wherever you be,speak soon,nick[C=:-)]

[trolleyboy]

Good eveninig again gents. Leon just a water with a bit of lemon for tonight.

Tom Glad I could clarify the TH&B question for you.I'll be looking for the rememberance day bit from you.[tup][tup]


Nick I'll take you up on the beer next week, the penisillen I'm on precludes the use of alcohol[:(] Nice to see you back however. [tup] Not to worry when you come to see your sister you can always pick her up a nice gift with the CDN Tire money.[:D] They have morphed into a department store of sorts ( no clothes )


Ted & Pete Thanks for the well wishes on my mouth problems. I'm surviving it was a strait pull no impactions ( thank god ) coarse that ment I was there in the chair for it as opposed to out [xx(] This was an inevitable. the tooth had been filled then filling repaired third time wasn't an option so out she came. I still have the rest of my set which are fully functional so all's good



Ted Glad you enjoyed the TH&B bits. Seems to have flicked a couple of switches which is all good[tup] They were a neat little railway.I'm glad that I'm not the only one who gets PO'd with utilities gone mad[:(] again not worth gripping about here. I'll join you in the rat's patoot room. Nice story about your first train,indeed sad about the circumstances of the getting of it. I suppose we must be thankfull over here. The shortages and rationing went on alot longer in the UK than it did in Canada or the US. my dad has told me several similar stories about his time growing up during the war years. He turns 70 in january so he likley remebers the details of Dec 7th a bit clearer. The one train thing he always tells me about is how with the rubber and gas shortages in Canada during the war how he used to ride the NS&T with his dad and his uncle who worked for them pretty much exclusivley during the war years.



Well folks I'm gone for the evening Movie on the tube I wi***o watch. TTFN

Rob

[West Coast S]

Eveing Tom and the gang, see I do come out at night...round of proper dinner cocktails, proper female company by candlelite and soft music....

Tom, have I got a treat for you and the group...from the Western Pacific's mechanical archives comes this piece regarding their experience with the RDC....

Towards the end of 1949, losses to trains 1 & 2, The Royal Gorge, prompted WP to seek discountiuance of all secondary passenger service. Anticipating rejection of their application, Budd was contacted regarding the new RDC.. Eventually permission was granted to dicontinue daily service, but WP was required to maintain triweekly service.

An trial RDC-1 was recieved at Salt Lake City on December, 15, 1949..Upon intial inspection, WP officials refused the test unless pilots and a baggage compartment were installed, Budd agreed to perform the temporary modifications. Actual trials commenced on January 17 and continued through the the 26th, operation consited of a round trip from Portola, Ca to Salt Lake City and return.

WP was impressed by the results and on January 23, 1950 placed a single car RDC-2 order with Budd, an additional RDC-2 was soon authorized on June 01, 1950. Both RDC's were recieved the following May and July 1950 respectively and numbered 375-376.

After delivery the cars were put through a series of test which resulted in many modifications over the years, both by Budd and WP personal.. Over ninety signficient modifications were instituted prior to 1954 with a few highlighted below.

1...Installation of nine-two passenger reclining seats immediatly behind the baggage compartment for the comfort of revenue passengers.

2.. Installation of a second toilet in the small compartment adjacent to the baggage compartment.

3...Installation of a conductors desk at the small jump seat

4...Installation of body mounted pilots to both ends of the car

5...Installation of diagonal number board, two per end, both ends of car.

6...Installation of wiring and plug in receptacles to each end of car to furnish power and A/C when hauled by a diesel locomotive.

7...Installation of an additional air horn to both ends of car.

8...A red Gyralite was installed, facing the rear and a white one installed on the front per WP operating practices.

Once in regular operation, additional problems made their appearence, pilots were refastened, reinforced and trimmed, modifications were made to permit greater air capacity, additional filters were installed on the engines to combat alkyline dust and the effects of weeds, common to the right of way in Nevada and Utah with the stock louvered openings being sealed in the process.
The RDC's were unable to actrivate lineside signals when recieved and new circutrity was soon developed and installed by company forces, Budd being unable to provide a solution that meet WP's exacting demands.

In spite of these defiencies, WP considered the ten year RDC expertiment a sucess. Losses for trains 1& 2 exceeded $255.000 dollars a year by 1959. WP sought permission to discontinue all secondary passenger service, this time, permission was easily obtained and the RDC's were retired on October 01, 1960 and stored in the Oakland roundhouse awaitng a buyer, eventually Northern Pacific would assume ownership. Once in service on the NP, one was soon to be demolished in a grade crossing collision, the second survived long enough to be included into the new Burlington Northern roster before being purged.

Ok Boris, set up a round for the night owls among us....

Dave

[siberianmo]

THURSDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

Good Morning!

Info for the Day:

(1) Today isFish ‘n Chips Nite. Watch for [C=:-)] Nick’s Picks! [dinner] Dinner begins at 5 PM!

(2) Friday is Pizza Nite along with Steak ‘n Fries. [dinner] Dinner begins at 5 PM!

(3) Saturday is ENCORE![/ day insofar as NOSTALGIA and Fallen Flag Posts are concerned.

(4) Sunday is SUNDAY PHOTO POSTING DAY! and of course the bar is CLOSED.

(5) Watch for the announcement for a ‘special’ participatory event for November 11th (Veteran’s Day – Remembrance Day – Armistice Day).

INDEX Mondays only!

SUMMARY

Name - Date/Time - (Page#) – Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 05:38:46 (153) Wednesday’s Info & Summary

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 05:44:26 (153) [purple]ENCORE! – MoPAC w/Al’s info

(3) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 08:33:30 (153) Daily pick-us-up Post!

(4) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 09:48:52 (153) Inclusive Post, plus

(5) siberianmo Tom Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 10:57:57 (153) [purple]Permanent Stools Induction – coalminer3

(6) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 11:55:44 (153)

(7) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 12:40:52 (153) censored!

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 12:49:23 (153) reply to: coalminer3 & trolleyboy, etc.

(9) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 13:32:58 (153) Pike Day and TH&B

(10) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 13:45:01 (153)

(11) siberianmo Tom Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 15:37:32 (153) North American Steam Loco Wheel Arrangements

(12) pwolfe Pete Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 15:38:45 (153)

(13) siberianmo Tom Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 15:54:11 (154) reply to trolleyboy, etc.

(14) siberianmo Tom Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 16:08:01 (154) reply to: pwolfe

(15) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 18:39:29 (154) Inclusive Post!

(16) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 19:51:41 (154) He’s baaaaaaaaack (again)!

(17) siberianmo Tom Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 20:33:58 (154) reply to Theodorebear & nickinwestwales, etc.

(18) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 20:49:04 (154)

(19) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 21:57:18 (154) Inclusive Post!

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[siberianmo]

Here’s another Fallen Flag for the gang from Classic American Railroads:

New York, Chicago & St. Louis – Nickel Plate Road (NKP)

Headquarters: Cleveland, OH

Mileage in 1950 2,192

Locomotives in 1950:

Steam: 392
Diesel: 117

Rolling stock in 1950:

Freight cars: 29,229
Passenger cars: 117

Principal routes in 1953 (after W&LE merger):

Chicago-Buffalo, NY via Fostoria & Lorain, OH
Toledo, OH-East St. Louis, IL
Toledo-Wheeling, WV & Steubenville, OH
Cleveland-Zanesville, OH
Sandusky, OH-East Peoria, IL via Lima, OH
Indianapolis-Michigan City, IN
Fort Wayne-Connersville & Rushville, IN
Norwalk-Huron, OH
Cleveland-Wellington, OH

Passenger trains of note:

Blue Arrow (Cleveland-St. Louis)
Blue Dart (St. Louis-Cleveland)
City of Chicago (Buffalo-Chicago)
City of Cleveland (Chicago-Buffalo)
Commercial Traveler (Toledo-St. Louis)
New Yorker (Chicago-Buffalo)
Nickel Plate Limited (Chicago-Buffalo)
Westerner (Buffalo-Chicago)


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[Anonymous]

Mornin' Tom, too early for anything heavier than dry Rye toast and a cuppa unleaded. We are finally into our dry season with temps hoovering around low 80's daytime and upper 60's evening.[^] Its good to see Nick and Dave back in the fold with their sage observations and valued good humor.[tup] BTW Nick, the "Pink Gin" is a winner, I'll imbibe another later today.[tup] Thursday, so it must be fish 'n' chips, good. I really like that Kikkoman Soy Sauce as a tasty salt substitute on the poached Flounder fillets.

Yes Rob, I don't know how businesses in my area operate with the frequent power interuptions. Its exasperating and then to add insult to injury they pass on a huge rate increase.[:(!] I'm looking into solar power for my next domestic project. I hope to help the Arabs drown in their own oil and U.S. energy moguls fry in their own fat.[tdn] While I'm [#offtopic], I may as well throw in the the Media's tasteless coverage of Prince Charles and Lady Chamille's visit. True to form, the alphabet media cartel (A.B.C., C.B.S., N.B.C., P.B.S.) dwell on Princess "D" and her untimely death instead of honoring the Royal couple with proper "pomp" and protocol. The networks must look under rocks when they hire journalistic reporters. If they would dig a little deeper, they would find the "political activist" editors. Really sick of it.[xx(]

There haven't been enough posts to interface with as yet. So, I'll just comment that "Pike Perspectives Day" is a sucessful idea for Wednesdays, congratulations Nick.[bow] Hey pal, I know what you mean about grabbing the gigs when you must. But, its the after hours things that will, in the end, cause a premature "burn out." You might wi***o recall the old classic Pinocchio and the wiley Fox story. If it all eventually "comes together," the real money will be from recordings, residuals, copyrights, et al.

Okay, I have a bit of information on the business side of the I.C. System but am reluctant to plunge into a dissertation on this very "dry" side of the financial end of "the business." I will recommend a book by Bill Yenne entitled: "The Great Railroads of North America" if any members care to delve into this "dollars and cents" part of the I.C. story. For most of us, it will be [zzz] time.

Hit that Dude Boris, I gotta a lotta remodeling to do. Happy rails.

[siberianmo]

Mornin’ Gents!

Another sunny day, a bit of wind pickin’ up and the temps are going to be near 80 (F). Juneau is curled up in his Husky position on the leather recliner, the galley has been cleaned and secured ‘til tonight, and I’m settlin’ in for another thrill packed day of retirement. [swg]

I see some Posts to acknowledge, so here goes:

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 21:57:18

Thanx for the contributions in spite of not feeling up to par. Hope you enjoyed the “flick” and today begins the cycle once again! Ain’t life grand [?] Compared to the alternative, no question it is! [tup]

West Coast S Dave Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 02:12:11

What a treat! This is not only thorough and accurate information regarding the RDC’s on the WP but it melds in quite nicely with the week’s RDC NOSTALGIA pieces. Two more comin’ one today and the last tomorrow. Watch for ‘em! [tup]

Let me add a bit of supplemental info to your narrative:

A press release in Railway Age on Jan 14th, 1950:

QUOTE: The Western Pacific will place into service on January 17, for 10-day trial period, the self-propelled diesel rail car manufactured by the Budd Company. The car is to be tried on the WP’s 600-mile line between Portola, Cal., and Salt Lake City, Utah, and will operate on the schedule of the road’s trains No. 1 and 2. Passengers to stations beyond the aforementioned cities will change to regular trains at these points.”

Shortly after the test runs, WP purchased two RDC-2’s with 71 seats and a baggage compartment in each unit. This train was called the Zephyerette, considered a compliment to the more renowned California Zephyr.

The manufacturer’s numbers for the cars were #5008 and 5010. Car #5008 became NP’s # B-31, Amtrak’s #31 in 1971 and was wrecked in Galena, IL in 1974. Car #5010 became NP’s #B-32, Amtrak No. 32 in 1971. Following a fire in 1979, it was sold to Metro-North for parts.

The route was from Oakland, CA to Salt Lake, City, UT a distance of 924 miles. The RDC’s made three round trips per week. Westbound ran Sun-Wed-Fri and Eastbound Mon-Thu-Sat from 1950-1962. source:RDC – The Budd Rail Diesel Car

Oh there’s a ton of additional info … but that should do it for now. The point is not to upstage your fine effort, just to complement and compliment it! [tup]

Theodorebear Ted Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 07:05:56

While I’m hardly one to offer this kinda advice – don’t get your knickers in a knot over things none of us can control. I do it all the time and come away feeling far worse for it. So, it’s something I work at – really do – keep the stress level down, down, down.

The hobby is a great relaxer for sure. When I’m in “my element” down in the Can-Am Trainroom (HO layout and Lionel Polar Express shelf RR) and the “annex” where the S Capades is located, the rest of the world can simply dissipate into an after thought as far as I’m concerned. With five CD’s selected for hours of entertainment, only Juneau is able to bring me out of my “trance.” There’s sufficient room for the tennis ball game – I throw it, he chases it, returns it, and the cycle continues. When he’s had enough, he heads back up to his domain and I resume my activities. Works well …… [swg]

Don’t know what I can offer regarding what appears to be a strange phenomenon on these Forums in not having the latest Posts show up. Just looking at the time of your Post and those of Dave – Summary – and Fallen Flag – Nickel Plate something surely isn’t right. I can understand it when the Posts are within minutes, but hours [?] Oh well …… happens as they say.

Eighty in FLA and Eighty in MO - it's not only the Forums that are skewed these days (daze)! [swg]

Okay, time to get going on the day’s activities. I’ll be behind the bar, but will probably hold off Posting ‘til noon-ish ……..

So, whatillyahave [?]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[coalminer3]

Good Morning All, coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.

Lots of interesting material to read through today. As for "Mountain Railway," you can find it on Nitty Grity Dirt Band's epic, "Will the Circle Be Unbroken." They back up Johnny Cash - bring tears to your eyes.

Tipple (down, Boris) is kind of a generic name here for a loading facility. Many times they were/are built as part of a larger facility that prepares (cleans) coal. You'll hear them also called "cleaning plants," "prep plants," or sometimes, "loadouts." It all depends upon where you are. The book C&O Railway in WV, recently produced by the C&O Historical Society, has some good pictures and diagrams. You can also visit their website and search the images they have posted there. Look at some of the pictures and you'll get an idea why coal mines look kind of "out of place" on a layout unless you have a lot of speace to devote to them.

One of the high points in the book was some pictures of NYC 2-8-2s moving stuff around on the NF&G at Rainelle. This was truly a backwater of the NYC as was part of the old K&M line and jointly operated by NYC and C&O. A great modeling project if there ever was one. I have never seen a layour done on that line, but it would be interesing

I do model some in N scale - my cut off point is 1960. That way it's not too much of a strain to backdate quickly when I feel like running steam.

I have been enjoying the information and exchange of ideas on the TH&B. Since we are doing modeling stuff today, here are a couple of citations from recent magazines.

June, 2005 RMC: "Anatomy of a Junction: Smithville, Ontario on the TH&B."
July, 2005 RMC "Anatomy of a Junction, Part 2: Smithville. Ontario on the TH&B."
Lovely color pictures and a wealth of information. These should be real easy to find.

The NYC-TH&B is indeed a tangled web.

Nickel Plate? One of my all-time favorites. BTW, I saw where the NKP 765 restoration is proceeding and 765 has been steamed up for the first time in awhile. The Ft. Wayne RR Historical Society's website has lots of up-to-date information.

I got my Model Railroader in the mail today. Full color ad for live steam "Flying Scotsman" from Hornby (OO gauge, yet) - she sure is pretty!

RE the Western Pacific's RDC. Nothing stays "as built" for long does it? It's like I tell some of my students now and then, "Nobody here ever modified equipment did they? The looks of innocence are something to behold...kind of like Boris the last time the State police spotlighted him on that back road.

BTW, anybody have C&O questions, I'll be glad to try and answer them.

One memory I do have is riding on a Gulf Shifter one time in a snowstorm. We got to a mine that needed to be supplied and they told me to get out and throw the switch. I stepped off the front of the GP9 and went in right up to my neck. All part of the "initiation," I guess, but I thought I'd never get warm again. Train crew said, "I made their year."

work safe

[siberianmo]

G’day All!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #18

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the RDC’s from Budd from a 1953 advertisement found in my personal collection.

40 RDC’S FOR THE PROGRESSIVE NEW HAVEN

If anybody should know how to carry passengers profitably it’s the New Haven. Nearly half its income is derived from this source in contrast with most railroads where freight is king.

This adds significance to the fact that the New Haven has become the largest purchaser of Budd RDC’s – stainless steel, self-propelled, rail diesel cars.

In the nearly three years RDC’s have been operating in this country and abroad they have compiled an impressive record. In performance, they have improved every schedule they were assigned to. In operation they have proved both reliable and economical – two RDC’s saved one railroad $600,000 in a year. In the comfortable, air-conditioned service they render, RDC’s have increased passenger patronage – one RDC, operating in a new service between Worcester and New London, picked up 944 passengers in its first week.

Both New England and the New Haven will benefit from expanded RDC operation.

. . . . . . . . . . The Budd Company, Philadelphia, Detroit, Gary. . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Budd . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . PIONEERS IN BETTER TRANSPORTATION . . . . . . . . . .


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

CHECK THE MONDAY SUMMARY and INDEX PAGES FOR MORE GREAT NOSTALGIA POSTS!

[trolleyboy]

Good afternoon Tom.I think tea only for me but I will leave a stippend for a round for all the fish and chippers tonight I think I'll ask the chef to do an omelett for me ( still not able to quite chew on anything hard quite yet[:(][:(!] )


Tom & Dave Nice info on the RDC's. Great stories, as I have said before slowley but surley I'm learning about the western roads. I had always thought that the Nickle Plate would have gone on forever. It and the Wabash and The Monon though small always struck me as finacially frugel roads. Though they did manage to get consumed by the N&W.

I may be wrong but I thought that I had read somewher that the Nickel Plate passenger trains to and from Buffalo were met by the NYC Empire State and thus accross southwestern Ontario to Detroit. I may have made this up though perhaps someone with more intimate NKP / NYC knowledge can confirm or deny.[?]

Yup Tom the alternative is non-negotiable. I am however healing up nicley and will soon be back to my beer swilling self ( least her in the either )[;)][:p][:D]I ended up missing the flick. Strictly speaking I saw the beginning and end credits.[:0][:(!] What was in between is still a mystery to me[|)][zzz]


CM3 Another nice all encompasing post [tup] Hopefully that train crew had the decency of having some "fortified" hot coffee or hot chocolat for you. thanks for the tip on the TH&B in craftsman. I had stopped buying it three years ago, it was starting to become to ad driven ( really as all magazines have ) Smithville not all that far from me, most likely a good portion of the trackage they disscussed there is still intact. The TH&B mainline is still there CPR to Welland and Buffalo now. CN's cayuga sub and Dunnwville subs that cut through there are mostly gone now . Trilliam rail a local shortline still uses bits of the Cayuga to interchange with CN but it's fairly dormant through there now.

I've seen the Hornby live steam adds too. Somehow it unsettles me a bit. My understanding is that it's strictly a heating element similar to a kettle in the boiler,but warmth and water around a layout nay be puching the envelope a tad.[:0] At least it's not burning butane or something more explosive.[xx(]


Ted Solar power eh[?] What is the old saying about people who live in glass houses[;)] Seriously though not a bad idea at all perhaps a small wind generator hooked up to your house as well. Florida is known for Sun and Wind. We have had unseasonably warm weather lately 60's during the day. I'll take that in november the alternative is unthinkable[:0][:(!][V]



That should catch me back up into the loop for now I'll try to pop back in with something more pertanent later.

Rob

[bjdukert]

Afternoon all and thank you for the kind words about my pics.

The ones that are ridden are 1 ½” scale and also live steam. It is a steam meet in Apex,N.C. that I go to every year in Oct and someday hope to go to the one in the spring as well. I have a friend that has a 4-4-2 Atlantic that I have known since the days I was stationed at Dover AFB in the late 60’s and you can see a pic of him on it. He is known in his circle of friends (which are many) as Grandfather Steam and he has forgotten more about steam than most know now and is more than willing to help anyone out if there is a problem.
The other pics of the Berkshire were taken here in the lower peninsula of Mich between Bay City and Grayling. It is the 1225 that did a fan trip and I was told about it that week and it was a last minute decision to make the trip up to see her,sure glad I did. You don’t realize how big those machines are until you get up close,not to mention the smell of coal.

Well that’s about it so I think I will mossy on back to the CS and see what is happening there. Thanks again for the kind words and the hospitalty.
Talk to you later

Duke

[trolleyboy]

Some additional info for everyone. I have over the last 6 years picked up a set of books put out by Canadian Branchline Miniatures. They deal with CN's stream operations in the final decade before dieselization.

All have been written by Ian Wilson,the books cover frieght trains passenger trains the stations and the industries served by them,including line drawings of the trackplans in every town small to large that CN touched in Southwestern Ontario , Toronto ( book 6 up comming next year ). Covers everything from North Bay to Windsor on the CNR. If you can find them grab them they are amazing. Great steam shots in colour and B & W and an easy to read way of writing that isn't tech heavy or dollar and cents heavy. Just a good read.


I bring them up because alotof the complicated interchanges with NYC / CP /TH&B etc etc are covered and shown on the line drawings of the towns. That and the steam rosters and car types used on each subdivision.


Books are as follow"s

Steam at Allandale.... Covers Barie to the near north
To Stratford Under Steam. Covers Straford Big shops Kitchener/area
Steam over Palmerston covers central ontario lake Huron area
Steam Through London..Covers london Brantford down to Windsor
Steam to the Niagara Frontier,, Covers Buffalo to Toronto

Finally this year or next he will do Toronto the shops the trains the facilities etc.The first two are now out of print but copies do surface. they really are well done and worth the read.


Rob

[siberianmo]

Afternoon Gents!

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 14:46:46 and 15:06:52

Another mid-day Inclusive Post! Now that’s the way to do it. [tup]

Those RR’s you mentioned just followed the path created by so many others. I’m not astute enough to know the “inner reasons” for bankruptcies and mergers, but when it came to just the passenger end of things (and that’s what my Fallen Flags focus on) there was no way they could carry on. That’s a story in and of its self ….. what a mess, really.

Good info on those books, too! Where in the world do you find the time to keep up with all of this [?] I’m still disappointed about that book on BC Rail that didn’t pan out - but if it hadn’t have been for you, I’d never known it existed.

When it comes to the temperatures either where you are or here, warm weather in November is a plus no matter how you look at it. Sure, it’s hardly what we’re accustomed to, but I’ll take it …. Short sleeves while pickin’ up leaves, that beats being bundled up in frigid temps ….. [tup]

Appreciate your stoppin’ by – as always!

bjdukert Duke Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 14:55:51

There’s a sayin; that goes, “To get a letter, one must write a letter.” Goes back to my time in the service when “mail call” was the thing most of us looked forward to. “To get a visit, one must make a visit,” applies to these Forums. It’s easy to become so wrapped up in a particular “place” that one misses out on quite a bit of good stuff going on elsewhere. One thing many of us ‘round here have concluded is that there is also a heck of a lot of “crap” out there and we do the best we can to keep it outta here.

For me – and speaking just for me – there’s just way too much going on over at the CS to keep up with. Overwhelmed me more than once. But that doesn’t mean, nor should it mean, that the ties cannot be maintained. Make sense?

Appreciate your explanation of the pix. I’ve never experienced that scale in person or in pictures. Looks quite serious. Now let’s see – there’s a bit of room on our property for a ……… nah! I think those who oversee this subdivision of ours would have a “conniption” fit for sure! [swg]

Have one on me, Duke and hope you stop by again.

Okay Guys, might be time to send some “Best Wishes” to our friend, earlydiesels Dan You can get an Email off to him simply by researching his name in the “member” block at the top of this screen, or ask me. We miss ya ‘round here, Dan and hope this fight with pneumonia is going in your favor. [tup][tup][tup]

Question of the day: Will we see Nick [C=:-)] tonight [?]

Catch y’all later …….

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[Anonymous]

Hi everybody, just checking in for a after rush hour pick-me-up. I guess a Crown and soda is a good place to start, Tom Enjoyed the added Budd promotional material involving the New Haven passenger corridor. Hey, wasn't the Nickel Plate one of the last Roads to retire steam? I recall somewhere reading of those beautiful Lima Berkshires (2-8-4) having been one of the last sizeable steam orders on any R.R. Well, Rob, you've done it again. No, not another wisdom tooth, the books to peak our curiosity on some fairly esoteric feeder lines, etc.[tup]

CM3, ditto for your reference books information. The W.P. must've been busy in the shops converting the Budds for proper electrical circuitry to activate signals properly. Surprise, surprise! The only worse "rude awakening" I can think of would be jumping off the Geep 9 over a trestle. You are so right about choices for wayside industry on model Pikes. Anything as ambitious as minning operations would be prohibitive for most layouts. Proportion is maybe the most negleted consideration but, on the other hand; "colors are made for taste." N gauge surely is a "life saver" for folks wanting maximum operation with limited space requirements. I'm thinking of a parameter shelf N gauge in my music room.

There are many stories of "dirty tricks" that occur among road crews. One I heard was from a retired Pennsy engineer. He claimed that when double heading the grades approaching the "horeshoe" curve, the Fireman in the first K-4 was upset with the 2nd loco cab "dragging their feet." He relieved himself on the coal shovel and at the tightest segment of the curve, "let fly." Its probably true as he wasn't one to exaggerate otherwise.

Westcoast S, great info. all around. Good to see ya again.[tup] Its really neat how Tom's excerpts and your own "dove tail" together making for a: "total greater than the sum of its' parts." That (in my opinion) is what seperates "Our" Place from so many other choices. This alone is good reason for participating on a regular basis.[tup] Okay, must "ride the rods" for now, happy rails all.

[siberianmo]

Evenin’ Guys!

For anyone interested in the Nickel Plate (NP) check out this URL: http://www.nkphts.org/history.html
It’s a keeper. May not answer your question, Ted, regarding being the last RR in steam, but there’s a wealth of info to browse through.

There is a “place” for N-scale in the hobby and all one has to do is visit the San Diego Model Railroad Museum in Balboa Park to see perhaps the largest N layout anywhere. It is absolutely stunning in scope and detail. I last saw it in 1988 and presume it is still there. The portable layout that I photographed while in KCity in September with Pete was a marvelous thing to behold. I’ll have to Post those pix (again) on Sunday Photo Posting Day!.

My “ideal” scale is S; 1:64. Just love the size and find it to be “just right,” even moreso as eyesight and dexterity with the fingers is on the wane. Unfortunately there are so many “down sides” to it, which I’ve chronicled several times on this thread. Why HO [?] Selection, availability and price – just about covers it. I found everything I wanted for the Can-Am in relatively short order. Couldn’t say that with S. What I wound up with for the S Capades fits my scheme (7x8 ft small layout w/three train sets) quite well and finally has quenched my desire for that size model train.

I seriously doubt that there will be an operating N scale in the Haus, however, never say never. A friend of mine recently gave me two sets of N trains – virtually unused and boxed. Hmmmmmm. He had over a dozen sets, unopened – and get this – his wife “told him” to get rid of ‘em. Argggggggh (on several counts!) <Good grief!>

My next venture, if there is to be one, will be a subway. I’m really leaning towards construction of a subway running beneath the Can-Am layout. It won’t have any interface at all with the Can-Am, just want to utilize that “under the board” space for something other than dust. I figure with some “openings” here and there between the curtained off underside area, it should look pretty “cool.” Thinking of 0-gauge, but availability will come into play. If I find something suitable in HO, then that’s what I’ll get. About 6 or 7 years ago, while in a friend’s hobby store, I nearly purchased a great looking O-gauge subway set – I think it was made by MTH. Was a great looking set …..

Okay – I’m outta here – Leon the Night Man has the bar!

So, whadillhave [?]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[trolleyboy]

Good evening Tom. I'll donate a roll of quartters for the "boombox" [swg] I'm heading back to work tomorrow so I'll be the night guy again[sigh] Oh well I'm sure that you folks will keep it humming in here.

Tom I haven't given up on the BC book if I find a good one I'll let you know. I like keeping on top of the hardbound and softbound rail books with Canadian or traction content. My thing. I certainly don't mind picking up a book if it fits what I like and lights my light as it were. On top of that our museum gift shop caters specifically to books and videos, Traction and rail as long as the rail is Canadian. Heather's Mom runs the gift shop so I tend to help her pick out good titles from the catalogue ( are you hearing that Al hint , hint I already have her wanting your book when it's done ! )


Thank's for the nickle plate url I'll savee that to take a peak later. I know thta you are essentially zeroing in on the passenger side but I'm a big picture sort of guy. Heck I just love trains. [tup][:D]

Ted CNR /CPR arebmy main rail loves so I will grab any good book that comes along. As I said though the Ian Wilson series are built to entertain and inform, they aren't dry stat after stat type books. His writing style basically lets you know what a day on the particular subdivision would be like. What passenger trains ran what freights etc. And then the marvalous and plentiful pictures from all the masters to bac it up. Couple that to the fact that this guy is 40 an dnever saw a live steam engine makes them that much more amazing.


I shouldn't read so much my brain is full but I grabbed a volume and found this little chart in it. These are the freight car / milage /locomotive counts. For Canadian railways as of 1987. This came from The Railway's of Canada by Jim Lotz and Keith MacKenzie.

Canada's Railways. Miles Loco's Cars

Canadian National Railways 34,220 3272 94,133
Canadian Pacific Railways 15,500 1200 58,000
BC Rail 1,389 103 10,000
Ontario Northland Railway 754 34 1,060
Dominion Atlantic Railway 277 - -
Cartier Railway Company 260 50 1,315
Esquimalt and Nanaimo RY 195 - -
Toronto Hamilton and Buffalo RY 110 17 608
White Pass and Yukon Railway 110 23 450
BC Hydro Railway 104 20 264
Greater Winnipeg Water District RY 97 6 130
Devco Railway 88 16 635
Roberville and Saguenay Railway 54 14 193
Canada Gulf and Terminal RY 30 1 -
Napierville Junction Railway 28 2 29
Essex Terminal Railway 24 6 5
Grand River Railway 16 - -

Included in CN's miliage is their US lines DW&P CV and GTW
Also by 1987 TH&B Grand River railway and Dominion Atlantic were owned by CPR but they keep the numbers separate from their own( these lines still exist on paper )


US railroads with miliage in Canada as of Jan 1987

Conrail 328 miles 2.4% of rail miles in Canada
Norfolk and Western 322 miles 2.1% " " " " "
C&O 201 miles 1.2 % " " " " "
Burlington Northern 181 miles .72% " " " " "

[trolleyboy]

Sorry guys the lists on the last post wouldn't work out. When I tried to space them the edit function told me I had too many characters. In a nut shell its miliage locomotive numbers and then frieght car numbers listed after the railway names. Rob

[siberianmo]

FRIDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

Mornin’ All!

Info for the Day:

(1) Today is Pizza Nite along with Steak ‘n Fries. [dinner] Dinner begins at 5 PM!

(2) Saturday is ENCORE! day insofar as NOSTALGIA and Fallen Flag Posts are concerned.

(3) Sunday is SUNDAY PHOTO POSTING DAY! and of course the bar is CLOSED.

(4) Watch for the announcement for a ‘special’ participatory event for November 11th (Veteran’s Day – Remembrance Day – Armistice Day).

INDEX Mondays only!

SUMMARY

Name - Date/Time - (Page#) – Remarks

(1) West Coast S Dave Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 02:12:11 (154) WP RDC’s

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 05:45:22 (154) Thursday’s Info & Summary

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 05:46:25 (154) Fallen Flag – Nickel Plate Road

(4) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 07:05:56 (154)

(5) siberianmo Tom Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 08:15:37 (154) reply to trolleyboy – West Coast S – Theodorebear

(6) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 08:24:47 (154) Daily pick-us-up Post!

(7) siberianmo Tom Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 12:04:40 (154) NOSTALGIA #18 – Ad Budd RDC

(8) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 14:46:46 (154) Inclusive Post!

(9) bjdukert Duke Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 14:55:51 (154) Visitor from the CS

(10) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 15:06:52 (154)

(11) siberianmo Tom Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 16:52:46 (154) reply to trolleyboy & bjdukert, etc.

(12) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 17:50:33 (154) Inclusive Post!

(13) siberianmo Tom Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 21:17:57 (154) reply to Theodorebear, etc.

(14) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 23:06:37 (155) Inclusive Post! Canadian Railway info

(15) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 23:55:51 (155)

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[siberianmo]

Here’s another Fallen Flag for the gang from Classic American Railroads:

Southern (SR)

Headquarters: Washington, DC

Mileage in 1950: 6,300

Locomotives in 1963:

Diesel: 644

Rolling stock in 1963:

Freight cars: 40,038
Passenger cars: 587

Principal routes in 1950:

Washington, DC-Charlotte, NC-Atlanta, GA-Birmingham, AL-New Orleans, LA
Cincinnati, OH-Chattanooga, TN-Birmingham
Danville, KY-St. Louis, MO
Chattanooga-Memphis, TN
Chattanooga-Morristown-Knoxville-Bristol, TN
Chattanooga-Atlanta-Valdosta, FL-Jacksonville, FL
Valdosta-Palatka, FL
Salisbury-Asheville, NC-Morristown, TN
Asheville-Spartanburg-Charleston, SC
Charlotte-Jacksonville
Danville-West Point, VA
Greensboro, NC-Norfolk, VA
Rome, GA-Mobile, AL

Passenger trains of note:

Aiken-Augusta Special (Washington-Salisbury-Augusta)
Asheville Special (Washington-Greensboro-Asheville)
Birmingham Special (Washington-Lynchburg-Bristol-Knoxvillle-Chattanooga-Birmingham
Carolina Special (Cincinnati-Knoxville-Asheville-Greensboro & Charleston)
Crescent (New York-Washington-Atlanta-Montgomery-New Orleans))
Florida Sunbeam (Cincinnati-Atlanta-Florida points)
Kansas City-Florida Special (Kansas City-Birmingham-Atlanta-Brunswick & Florida points)
Peach Queen (Washington-Atlanta)
Pelican (New York-Lynchburg-Bristol-Knoxville-Chattanooga-Birmingham-New Orleans)
Piedmont Limited (Washington-Atlanta-Montgomery-New Orleans)
Ponce de Leon (Cincinnati-Atlanta-Jacksonville)
Queen & Crescent (Cincinnati-Chattanooga-Birmingham-New Orleans)
Royal Palm (Cincinnati-Chattanooga-Jacksonville)
Skyland Special (Asheville-Jacksonville)
Southerner (Washington-Atlanta-Birmingham-New Orleans)
Sunnyland (Memphis-Birmingham-Atlanta)
Tennessean (Washington-Lynchburg-Bristol-Knoxville-Chattanooga-Memphis)
Washington-Atlanta-New Orleans Express (Washington-Atlanta-Montgomery-New Orleans)

Of note:
PRR handled SR trains east of Washington.
N&W handled SR trains via Bristol between Lynchburg and Bristol.
A&WP handled SR trains to and from New Orleans via Montgomery.
WRofA and L&N handled SR trains to and from New Orleans via Montgomery west of Atlanta.
Frisco handled SR trains between Memphis and Birmingham, west of Birmingham (The Kansas City-Florida Special).
Frisco handled SR trains handled the Sunnyland Memphis-Birmingham route.
SAL handled SR train The Florida Sunbeam south of Jacksonville.


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[Anonymous]

Mornin' all, I'm up before the chickens this a.m., so I'll help meself to toast and a splash-a-Joe. I see the moring paper on the counter. That means Tom must be around here somewhere. BTW Tom, thanks for the Nickel Plate addendum.[tup]

Some progress is being made on the HO side of the tracks. I'll fill you in next Wednesday for details. I did a litle browsing earlier and peeked into the other Forums. Nothing has really changed. Its the same old hackneyed subjects with the same core of responders, postulating the same advice, for something like 3 years non-stop by now.[V] If the old cliche of "too many chefs spoil the sauce" is true; examples of it may be found everywhere you turn. Glad that hasn't happened here yet. I don't think it ever will.[8D]

I "scoped out" some of the airline's fare increases along with valet and overnight parking, plus meals and lodging around the country.[:O] By Gadfrey, its astonishing! Lacking a crystal ball, I can't predict what may happen between now and May 2006. My "Rendesvous" plans have not changed, however, allow me to pass on a "word to the wise." If the current rate of "fuel inflation" continues, it is only reasonable to guess that "the best laid plans of mice and men" could be adversly effected.[:(] At this point, it probably isn't fair or prudent to ask Rob to "stick his neck out" on any firm committments. I hate to be the harbinger of "doom and gloom." I'm only stating what all of us already know. Now is not the time to commit to far flung plans, only to have them dashed assunder by unpredictable future fiscal realities. "The glass is still half full" not empty for me. But on NO account, should anyone be "out" a penny for commiting to tentative reservations that could "fall through." More on this should probably be discussed via e-mail...until then.[tup]

This may have been mentioned in past postings. There are many videos out on Railroading and two I can recommend for U.S. Roads is "America by Rail" which takes recent scheduled AmTrak routes with side trips to several "excursion" runs available "in season." Greg Scholl and Les Jarrett produced these volumes and "CounterTop Videos/James Entertainment is the distibutor. Another is "America's Railroads" distributed by Marathon Music & Video which inclues 7 volumes of steam through diesel. Your local library probably has one or both for your viewing.

Its dawn now and I don't want to risk another early "black out," so I'b best "get outta Dodge. Get well real soon Dan and Rob. Regards to all our great Members. Happy rails to all.

[coalminer3]

Good Morning All, coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox. We'll punch up two Doc Watson tunes today; "Blue Railroad Train," and "Southbound."

Ian Wilson's books are great reading. I have the Stratford volume and thoroughly enjoyed it.

The Progressive New Haven - The Boston area had probably the largest concentration of RDCs in the country when you consider what the B&M, NYNH&H, and B&A had. Now we have the Southern in our fallen falg collection.

The Greater Winnpeg Water District - one of the better rr names out there.

In a 1930 vintage ORG I have, their material was buried in the back of the Canadian NAtional Rys setion. Other roads sharing space on the poage witrh the GWWD were the following: Canada and Gulf Terminal; Morrisey, Fernie and Michel Ry;" and the Montreal and Southern Counties Ry. This last ought to get our electrified folks inmterested.

Anyway the Greater Winnipeg had passenger service (6 days a week - north one day and south the next) between St. Boniface, Manitoba, and Waugh. I always look at the footnotes in the ORG entries and found this entry under the GWWD listing "Returning leaves Waugh by 7:00 a.m." You snooze, you lose, I guess.

Since there's talk on the board of building a subway, (down, Boris - not for sandwiches) - here's the first part of a longer post re the Boston subway. Again, all of this is pretty much changed beyond recognition - track, cars, etc. It took awhile to put my rough notes into a somewhat coherent format.

Subway

Riding the subway was always an adventure. The Boston subway was old when I was growing up. There were not as many stations then (sit and read the stations marked on the glass map in the holder beside the car door; Harvard, Central, Kendall, Charles, Park St., Washington, South Station, Broadway, Andrew Columbia, Fields Corner, Shawmut, and Ashmont - that was it), and the trains only ran as far as Harvard Square, although the streetcars ran out to Arlington, but that’s another story for another time.

Most of the time we rode the bus to get to Harvard Square. This involved a walk to the corner, crossing there and waiting at the bus stop. There was not much of a sidewalk to stand on as the concrete, or what had been concrete was pretty well broken up. There was a lot of dirt and sand and a few tree roots sticking up, but that was about all. The traffic was much more interesting than trying to write my name in the dirt with the toe of my shoe and getting yelled at by my mother for “scuffing up your good shoes.” T

Trucks were, of course, smaller and noisier. I always looked for Macks, especially the ones with chain drive since they made a glorious racket as they rolled past. Lowbeds (which is what they were called then) with construction equipment were good, too.

The bus (Middlesex and Boston Street Railway Co.), would come in time and we’d get on, pay the fare and sit down. There was a fare box at the front of the bus which automatically counted the money as the passengers dropped it into the slot on the top of the box. It made a neat “clinka-clinka-clinka” money-counting sound.

After awhile, we’d cross the bridge at Fresh Pond that went over the Boston and Maine’s four-track main line. There was always something to see there, even if it was just a cut of freight cars, but usually I’d get lucky and see at least a switch engine pushing cars around, mostly for Bethlehem Steel which had a fabricating operation to the north and west of the bridge.
The New England Brick Company, which burned in a spectacular fire one Halloween night when I was maybe about 10 years old, was just to the west of the bridge, and the Dewey and Almy chemical plant glowered threateningly in the distance.

The brick company stretched for several hundred feet along the B&M tracks and when it did burn it was a total loss. We could see the flames from the top of one of the hills in the neighborhood when we went out trick or treating and terrorizing the neighbors.

Past the bridge was a rotary (traffic circle), and the bus slewed around there, thumped across a railroad siding that served a coal and lumber yard, and headed into Cambridge.

The buildings were different here, wooden triple deckers and brick commercial structures with stores on the ground floor and apartments above them.
I wondered what it would be like to live in a place where if you wanted something to cook for dinner all you had to do was go downstairs and buy it - not bad.

The store windows were full of canned goods stacked in pyramids and there were usually placards or posters in the windows advertising the wonders that awaited within at incredibly low prices - this week only! One week faded into another, however, and the incredibly low prices remained from week to week.

Some markets had outside displays of fruit and vegetables where customers could pick what they wanted and have it weighed, bagged and paid for; all outside. A lot of the stores had cloth awnings which the store owners raised or lowered by using a long wooden pole with a crank at one end. The storekeeper stuck the pole into a receptacle at one end of the awning and turned the crank at the bottom of the pole. ‘Round and ‘round it went , and the awning rolled up or down.

The parade of stores passed by the bus window: stores selling food, clothing, furniture, funeral parlors, flower shops, restaurants and package stores. In the alleys between the buildings were stacks of garbage cans and here and there a garage, radiator shop or a store that fixed radios, TV’s, or small appliances.

Television was just starting to make its influence felt and the tops of many buildings had silvery TV antennas sprouting upward among the clotheslines.

A little closer to the end of the ride, we’d see the wires for the electric buses or “trackless trolleys” which ran through the center of Cambridge. The trackless trolleys were noiseless, but every so often a blue cracking arc of electricity between the overhead wire and the poles on the bus would remind me of what they ran on.

Traffic was always heavy through here, but even a metropolitan Boston driver respected a Twin Coach product. Squeezing through a narrow space between a dark blue Plymouth station wagon, two bright yellow Checker taxis, and a coal truck, the bus braked to a stop, the driver opened the door and we were at Harvard Square.

The subway station was in the middle of Harvard Square. It was a low gray stone structure with a metal roof and some ornamental iron work. In red letters above the doors was a sign which said “Rapid Transit to All Points - Eight Minutes to Park Street.”

People were always in a hurry there and it was hard to get a chance to take in all of the activity. You had a choice of walking down the stairs or riding a narrow wooden escalator to get to the station’s “lobby.” Here was a change booth and turnstiles. The process was quite simple - shove a dollar bill through the slot in the glass window and get some subway tokens and some change pushed back to you by the bored looking man sitting inside. Then take a token, put it in the slot in the turnstile and push your way through.

Little kids rode for a nickel and had to reach up to drop their nickels into a change counter which was pretty similar to the one on the bus. That done, we went down the stairs to the platform and waited for the train.

Harvard Square Station was on two levels. The upper level, which allowed passengers quick access to buses and trackless trolleys without going outside, was for trains coming from Boston. Inbound (to Boston) passengers boarded their trains on the lower level. There was a single track on each level. The upper level went to the car barn (actually an open area for car storage) which was occupied a space near the Charles River between the Harvard University campus and Memorial Drive.

I always liked going by the yard when driving into Boston. Row on row of subway cars sat parked on the tracks waiting for their next trip. Sometimes, trains ran past the Harvard Square station to the yard to discharge passengers going to a football game at Harvard Stadium which was just across the Charles River.

I remember walking by the yard a few times when going to the stadium with my father or uncle to see a football game. There was a cement and brick wall around the yard which had a few gaps in it and I wished I was taller so I could see more of the trains behind the wall. I could hear trains approaching the station from Boston as they pulled in above me and the entire station rumbled and shook with a deep, menacing, growl which was almost deafening because of the confined space in the station.

Just about all of the old Harvard Square station was ripped out in the late 60s and early 70s when the subway was extended from Harvard Square to Alewife, so what I’m about to describe no longer exists. As I mentioned, the subway line was single track with a high level platform to let people board and leave the trains quickly.

The track resembled that of a regular railroad, except that a third rail was mounted outside the right rail. The third rail carried the electricity which powered the subway car’s traction motors. Every so often on the third rail was some white lettering which said “DANGER - THIRD RAIL DO NOT TOUCH!” I was concerned most of the time that I might fall off the platform, touch the third rail and be instantly fried, so I never got too close to the edge of the platform. Everyone knew of somebody that had been fried because they weren’t paying attention - never mind that there was no hard evidence of anyone ever being fried, except for a drunk in South Boston or some despondent person who threw themselves onto the tracks as the train pulled into the station, the thought of being electrocuted frying, swelling up and bursting into a million fragments was enough.

The track was not really ballasted but sat in what appeared to be deep layers of grime, oily dirt, dust, candy wrappers and old newspapers; I suppose there were ties underneath that mess somewhere. The walls were dingy white porcelain tile and there were brightly colored advertising signs attached to them at intervals. Most of the signs I remember advertised Wrigley’s gum. Behind me was a brightly lighted newsstand which sold Boston papers, candy bars cigarettes and cigars (in those more innocent days), and magazines.

The station itself was not well lighted. Rather there were a few bulbs that tried ineffectually to pierce the darkness. I found that I could see pretty well once I got used to it. I tried to get close enough to the edge of the platform so I could see up the track to where the tunnel coming from the car barn curved away, but not close enough so that I might fall off, wind up against the dreaded third rail and be fried - INSTANTLY!!!

After awhile I could hear a train coming. It sounded differently than did the ones on the upper level as the noise was not as deep. I could hear the wheels squealing around the curve from the yard and hear the hollow whistling sound of the brakes being applied as the motorman brought it closer to the station.

Then, there it was - four red lights marking the corners of the lead car, the blue-uniformed motorman sitting in the cab with one hand on the controller. The train of dirty, green painted, steel cars clomped into the station and screeched to a stop. The wooden doors banged open and the passengers began boarding the train.

These cars were not luxurious, they were utilitarian in the best sense of the word since they had been built to last through years and years of hard service. The windows would be open if the weather was warm and I could smell the pungent sweet scent of oil and warm traction motors.

A compressor cut in under one of the cars with an urgent “lunga, lunga, lunga” sound, and then cut off with a harsh snap of air under pressure. It would be time to leave pretty soon and I made sure to try and get a seat near an open window so I could see everything.

One feature of these cars I remember was a map of the MTA system in a glass panel by the door. I wonder now and then how much one of those would bring if offered at a memorabilia auction. Enough of that, though, it was time to go.

The doors banged shut, “snuuffaaa,” went the air brakes, the traction motors groaned into action and the train began moving forward slowly at first, then much faster. I don’t think we were really went all that fast, but the fact that the windows were open and we were in a tunnel gave the illusion of really moving rapidly. Central was the next stop, just a short distance from Harvard Square. The section of the line from Central to Kendall was about the longest stretch between stops and the train really moved along here. The noise was thrilling, palpable, and altogether wonderful. You truly could not, as my mother always said, “Hear yourself think.” The racket was redoubled whenever we met a train. The other train roared past us in a blur of lights. This was what it was all about - going some place fast.

Years later I read a passage in a novel by Thomas Wolfe in which the hero, tormented by a desire to be everywhere, see everything, and absorb all of life’s experience in the process, would ride the subway from Cambridge to Boston and see if he could hold his breath between stops - I did this when I was five years old and enthralled by Little Golden Books rather than the Sage of Asheville. The run from Central to Kendall was a long one, whether I held my breath or not.

To be continued

Work safe

[siberianmo]

Mornin’ All!

Still a rather warm start to the day ‘round here, skies have clouded over, but no rain is forecast. The winds of yesterday (gusting to 40 mph) have calmed considerably and it’s a good day for pickin’ up leaves! (What else [?]) There are nearly 30 deciduous trees on our property, most of ‘em planted by me thanx to my bride’s ever-luvin’ affection for the things, and of course the chore of pickin’ up after ‘em, falls to the “yard man,” me. [swg] So off I go, “fortified” with allergy meds, make my day, trees!

Some responses are in order:

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 23:06:37 and 23:55:51

I knew it was too good to last! Are you sure you don’t need another “extraction” [?] Anything “bothering” you that could keep you home [?] [swg]

Appreciate the continuing interest in “that book” for me. At this point, whether it is a soft covered version or hard doesn’t matter. My preference for “keepers” have always been for the hard covered versions – used or new, not a problem. Just love BC Rail and wish I could have found some “stuff” for the Fallen Flags, but perhaps it’s still a bit early for that in the data I’m looking for.

Just read where CN had another derailment in the Squamish, BC area and it has the “natives” really upset. CBC has an article on it in today’s cyber news. The Mayor and others are demanding that CN reduce the length of the trains, which they believe is a contributing factor to these rather frequent derailments. Just goes to show that bigger doesn’t always equate to better.

Nice work with that compilation on Canada’s railway’s mileage, locos and cars. Interesting that they are still using “miles,” given that the “powers in Ottawa” long ago decided that the Metric System was in, and the English system was out. VIA Rail still refers to “miles” in many on board references, whereas their schedules are in kilometers. Kinda screws it up – but what do I know!

Some advice regarding the formatting. As you have found out, spaces (space bar) are problemsome when trying to create something other than a narrative.

I have compile the majority of my “stuff” using a word processor format. Then I cut ‘n paste it to the Forum and use the “Preview Reply” capability to see what it will look like. This step is important, for what you see in the “Message” block IS NOT the same as what you will see when “Preview Reply” is called up. Then I determine whether more editing is necessary BEFORE posting the information. It’s a labor – no doubt – but worth it if one is trying to achieve a particular effect.

So here are the steps I recommend:

(1) Use a word processor program to draft a response.
(2) Cut ‘n paste it to the “Message” block on the forum.
(3) Use “Preview Reply” to determine if it “looks” the way you want it to.
(4) If yes – Post it. If no, delete it, clear the “Message” block and go back to the draft for editing.

Now for things like columns and additional spacing: The forum will not recognize more than one space (space bar), regardless of how many are “struck.” A way around it is to use characters like periods (.) or dashes (-) separated by spaces (. .) or (- -) or all run together (…..) (-----). This is a way to achieve that effect you may be looking for. Check out some of my NOSTALGIA pieces and you will see what I mean. It ISN’T perfect, but close enough. [tup]

Hope your return to the work force is a smooth one and there are no “surprises” awaitin’ ya! [swg]

Oh yes, thanx for the quarters for the Juke! [tup] Oh dang it – these are Canadian quarters – way too light for the mechanism. Man oh man, between these and those Canadian Tire dollars ….. [swg]

Theodorebear Ted Posted: 04 Nov 2005, 05:56:46

I wondered who had been readin’ the paper! I was in the kitchen, getting’ those <light> breakfasts ready for servin’.

Browsing the other Forums always leaves me wonderin’ why I do it. Really an absolute turn off in most cases. Far too much crap and obvious numbers escalations going on. I suppose the Kalmbach folks are no different than anyone else in business these days (daze) heaven forbid that we impose any rules, enforce any standards, etc. Been in a restaurant lately? How many people were using their cell phones? Heard one go off in Church last Christmas Eve and it was ANSWERED! Nope, there is little regard for decorum or keeping to the intent of a given subject or place these days (daze).

I still regard some of the guys over at the CS rather high up on my list of people with whom I intend to maintain comms. Unfortunately, there is so much to wade through just to get to where one wants to be, that I’m – in a word – overwhelmed. Cannot and will not make a steady thing of it only because it really wears me down.

Also, I got into a “flap” last Memorial Day with one of their self-proclaimed “elders” when I chastised one or two for Posting “Happy Memorial Day.” That really flicked my switch and still does. Happy [?] Perhaps for those who survived, but how about the millions over time who didn’t [?] Nope – not happy. Anyway, this guy really too issue and hasn’t “spoken” to me since. Won’t acknowledge, won’t refer, simply plays it like I don’t exist. Well that’s a two way street and easily handled by me.

Back to “Happy.” Happy Veteran’s Day is fine, for we are honoring those who have served and are serving. That’s appropriate. But when it comes to things like Pearl Harbor – Happy Dec 7th just doesn’t jive, or Happy 911, or …….. Arggggggggggggh. There’s a song from “Chicago” the stage play sound track – “Nobody’s Got No Class” that surely fits.

There is an Email awaiting all on the Rendezvous in Toronto mailing list. Seems that we were both thinkin’ about it at the same time. Rod Serling, where are you [?]

coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 04 Nov 2005, 09:09:06

There is no “doot aboot it” the Boston area did have the largest concentration of RDC’s in the world given the rundown you provided. They were absolutely appropriate conveyances for the types and lengths of trips being scheduled. The Budd Company didn’t lose any money up there, would be my guess.

Never heard of the Greater Winnipeg Water District in terms of railroading. That’s one we need to hear more about. Sounds like a “Canadian Thing” to me – how ‘bout it, Rob [?]

Another 4.0 Post on the Boston subways. Really a “keeper” and hope the guys take the time to not only read it, but get “into” it. Thanx! [tup][tup][tup]

In the 5 years I lived in that area (Melrose and Dedham), my subway ventures were rather sparses. As I’ve indicated, about half of my years up there I used the B&M’s RDCs from Melrose to North Station. Anyway, my subway experiences come from the Grand daddy of them all, NYC, with the IRT, BMT, and IND. Used to know pretty much all the stations – really. Anyway, strap hanging was a problem for me, for as a kid, I couldn’t reach ‘em. Thank heavens for the poles. Used to travel from South Ferry (Staten Island Ferry) to the Polo Grounds and Yankee Stadium quite often as a youngster. What a time to be a kid, really. No problems with being 10, 11 or 12 while riding subways with a buddy or two. Today [?] Right! How times and people have changed.

Subways – ah yes. If I could find an affordable consist of cars that resemble the ones I used to ride (1940s and 1950s) I’d “snap” ‘em up and get going with my latest scheme for the under the Can-Am board subway system (scale can be O or HO, doesn’t matter to me.) Funding [?] Well, the bride can always get a night job! [swg]

Round and quarters greatly appreciated! By the by, I have a roll of Canadian quarters I’ll trade you for one of those books you mentioned! [swg]

Okay – I’ll be behind the bar and will Post this afternoon with the NOSTALGIA piece, unless something extra ordinary pops up ‘tween times.

So, whadillhave [?]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

G’day All!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #19

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the RDC’s from Budd from a 1954 advertisement found in my personal collection.

. . . . . RDC – Car with a Future for Canada’s Future . . . . .

The Canadian Pacific – world’s greatest travel system – has just bought four Budd stainless steel RDCs. (The letters RDC stand for Rail Diesel Car.)

The cars were bought because of their proved ability to reduce costs, improve service and attract traffic. But also with an eye to Canada’s growth, which presages an increase in the need for transportation as Canada’s vast mineral, oil and natural resources are developed.

Operating experiences with RDC usually reveals potentialities not originally envisioned. Nobody has yet found their limit, though RDC is now operating in a searching range of services in Australia, Cuba and Saudi Arabia, as well as on our own country’s leading railroads. The Budd Company, Philadelphia, Detroit, Gary.

Automobile and Truck Bodies and Wheels. Railway Passenger Cars and Plows. Budd

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . PIONEERS IN BETTER TRANSPORTATION . . . . . . . . . . . . .


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

Next Friday, November 11th is Veteran’s Day (U.S.) and Remembrance Day (Canada & Great Britain). In recognition of all those who have served or are serving, let’s do something special on that day at ”Our” Place.

Find something to Post that is reflective of either of the World Wars that has some connection to the railroads, the war effort or both. Advertisements abound from those times, so it shouldn’t be too difficult.

With a week to prepare, my hope is that we’ll get good participation! [tup][tup][tup]



Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment