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Todays "Photo O' The Day"

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, December 22, 2020 10:25 AM

The U50's were reported to be rough riders.  When you consider how far forward of the centerpin of the span bolster the cab is located, it's not too surprising.

Except for its size, the location of the cab suggests that it be quite at home in Australia.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, December 22, 2020 10:59 AM

At least it has cleaner lines than Alco's C855.  The main thing the U50 triggered was the DD35A.  UP was happy enough with cabless DD35s before that.  SP got three each U50s and DD35 (cabless).  Never really did figure out where to use them.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, December 23, 2020 3:54 PM

Today we've got Pittsburgh's George Westinghouse Bridge.  I've seen it, it's still majestic too!

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, December 24, 2020 2:22 AM

rcdrye
Never really did figure out where to use them

I think a better way to say this is "how" to use them: the locations and service on the Southern Pacific where they would be useful are both reasonably obvious.  One not immediately obvious one is over San Gorgonio between the Coachella Valley and LA.  Anywhere you had a cab-forward (or two!) you'd have an opportunity to save money with multiple prime movers in one carbody ... or without the added cost or length of a cab if one could be MUed on.  The DD35 as EMD originally planned it was an interesting development in this respect.

I'd have thought the rough riding would be on the U50Cs.  The salvaged span-bolster B-Bs shouldn't have run any worse than they did under the gas-turbines that used them, unless the roll center with the Diesel engines was too much higher or the designers fouled up the longitudinal balance (which has been known to happen; it ruined the Silver Slipper's motorcar, for instance).

I have the impression that the U50C was one of the true worst locomotives ever built.

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, December 24, 2020 8:25 AM

SP did use the U50s on San Gorgonia, and other runs out of LA's Taylor yard. The crews didn't like them much. SP was still very much an EMD-favoring railroad when the U50s showed.  SP and SSW had 18 GP30s and 182 GP35s to 68 U25Bs Remember that they performed much like a pair of U25Bs, which were known to be slippery.  SP had relatively few contemporary GEs assigned to LA - the U25Bs tended to stay east of El Paso in the Cotton Belt pools mixed with GP35s. The GE control stands weren't popular either - and there were only three of them!  The arrival of the SD45s after 1966 pretty much sidelined them as they got stored early and often in traffic downturns, and were quickly retired when the equipment trusts ran out in the late 1970s.  Local name for them was "Baby Huey"

Except for the DD35s and U50s, all of SP's dual-engine freight power was diesel-hydraulic with the three Alco DH643s and twenty "Krauts" Krauss-Maffai ML4000s.

 

The George Westinghouse bridge never had streetcar tracks making it something of a rarity among Pittsburgh's many bridges.  The 55 East Pittsburgh via Homestead did go UNDER the bridge.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, December 24, 2020 1:26 PM

rcdrye
Local name for them was "Baby Huey"

It would be hard to find a more 'apropos sobriquet' for the poor things!

 https://chabdog.com/wp-content/uploads/4-27-19-baby-huey.jpg

I have sometimes wondered if that poorly screened blower screaming away behind the Econoline/cracker box-GMC-style cab added to crew dislike.  

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Posted by bill613a on Friday, December 25, 2020 11:25 PM

The JUNIATA was a Pittsburgh-NYC train that later was truncated to a Pittsburgh-Philadelphia run

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Posted by Ben Klesc on Sunday, December 27, 2020 2:52 PM

This is the Framingham & Lowell line which ran off the old New York, New Haven, & Hartford system that was abandoned in 2001. 

This is a photograph taken by local resident David Haney in the summer of 1977 running through Chelmsford Center in Massachusetts before they put in the traffic lights. The intersection is now the Bruce Freeman Trail that makes up 25 miles of bike path. To the right of this shot not seen in the first photograph was the Chelmsford Center Freight House. The train station located here was torn down in 1951 that used to run passenger service until that year.

Today the location of the train station and freight yard is Brickhouse Pizza and a gas station. Pan Am still runs a freight through Chelmsford on the other end of the town on the Stoney Brook Railroad owned under the current Pan Am system. Passenger service ended on Stoney Brook railway in 1961. 

Framingham & Lowell Railroad (Summer 1977)

Framingham & Lowell Railroad (Summer 1977) 2

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Posted by Erik_Mag on Sunday, December 27, 2020 5:04 PM

FWIW, I do recall seeing one of the SP DD-35's in Taylor yard in early 1977. It was between two non-SP hood units, one may have been a BN unit on the other was a Family Lines unit. Wish I had stopped and taken a picture of that lash-up.

I also remember seeing side frames for DD trucks being hauled as scrap on southbound I-15 in San Diego in the mid-80's.

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Posted by pennytrains on Sunday, December 27, 2020 6:47 PM

Erik_Mag
Wish I had stopped and taken a picture

That's the way it always seems to work.  A while back I had a chance at a pair of Wheeling and Lake Erie units standing alone a few feet shy of a grade crossing on a beautiful day and my camera was miles away.  Sad

Big Smile  Same me, different spelling!  Big Smile

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, December 28, 2020 8:12 AM

SP knew plenty about B-units when the DD35s arrived - they had about 200 F3/F7/F9m B-units that were very much part of the freight pool in 1965.  The four axle Flexicoils don't seem to have had too much trouble with tracking.  The DD35s did have hostler controls - in the "alley" between the long hoods.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, December 28, 2020 10:06 AM

Ben Klesc
This is the Framingham & Lowell line which ran off the old New York, New Haven, & Hartford system that was abandoned in 2001. 

Nice shots, and Welcome aboard!

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, December 28, 2020 10:11 AM

pennytrains
That's the way it always seems to work.  A while back I had a chance at a pair of Wheeling and Lake Erie units standing alone a few feet shy of a grade crossing on a beautiful day and my camera was miles away. 

Don't feel bad, I was trackside when the CSX Engineering Train (imagine a passenger train in CSX colors) came through, and no camera!  

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Posted by pennytrains on Monday, December 28, 2020 6:38 PM

Well, the big one that got away from me was a summer day in Olmsted Township when a south(ish) bound shipment from Detroit of flats loaded with new military vehicles (no idea what they were, half hummer half "something") passed the grade at Columbia Road and again the camera was at home.  Sad

Big Smile  Same me, different spelling!  Big Smile

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, December 28, 2020 10:16 PM

pennytrains
... new military vehicles (no idea what they were, half hummer half "something") ...

look up 'Stryker' and tell me if those are what you saw.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, December 30, 2020 3:47 PM

I forgot to look yesterday, but today, holy jeez!

Hoboken's Lackawanna Terminal, I get shivers just looking at it!  Just to get the idea of how cold it was, and sustained cold, the Hudson River's salt water at that point, and salt water doesn't freeze unless it chilled below 28 degrees.  Whether it's solid ice or "slob ice" I'm not sure, but it was a cold winter just the same.

The terminal's still there as a Jersey Transit facility, but needless to say the ferrys are long gone.  

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Posted by M636C on Wednesday, December 30, 2020 5:40 PM

Flintlock76

I forgot to look yesterday, but today, holy jeez!

Hoboken's Lackawanna Terminal, I get shivers just looking at it!  Just to get the idea of how cold it was, and sustained cold, the Hudson River's salt water at that point, and salt water doesn't freeze unless it chilled below 28 degrees.  Whether it's solid ice or "slob ice" I'm not sure, but it was a cold winter just the same.

The terminal's still there as a Jersey Transit facility, but needless to say the ferrys are long gone.  

 

As a child I was given a number of books from the 1920s, on subjects like "ships" and "trains". One book on ships contained a photo of a conventional stern wheel paddle boat that had been in the Hudson near Manhattan when the river froze solid, trapping the ship and damaging its hull. On checking I found that this might have occurred around 1888 (I welcome any information on this) I guess they had this striking photo and wanted to use it despite it being quite old.

Somewhere in the back of my mind is a statement that one very severe winter in the 1880s in the West marked the end of major cattle drives to railheads (no doubt assisted by expansion of the railroads).

A book on railways from the late 1950s included some photos of the Oslo-Bergen line in Norway and I later found the photos dated from 1905....

Peter

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Posted by pennytrains on Wednesday, December 30, 2020 7:22 PM

Overmod

 

 
pennytrains
... new military vehicles (no idea what they were, half hummer half "something") ...

 

look up 'Stryker' and tell me if those are what you saw.

 

 

They went by pretty quick and it was awhile ago, but they're probably what I saw.

Big Smile  Same me, different spelling!  Big Smile

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Posted by MidlandMike on Wednesday, December 30, 2020 9:58 PM

Flintlock76

I forgot to look yesterday, but today, holy jeez!

Hoboken's Lackawanna Terminal, I get shivers just looking at it!  Just to get the idea of how cold it was, and sustained cold, the Hudson River's salt water at that point, and salt water doesn't freeze unless it chilled below 28 degrees.  Whether it's solid ice or "slob ice" I'm not sure, but it was a cold winter just the same.

The terminal's still there as a Jersey Transit facility, but needless to say the ferrys are long gone.  

 

The Hudson is an estuary, and the fresh water tends to wedge out toward the top, and I would imagine you also get ice floating down the river.

While the grand old ferries are gone, there are now smaller ferries that operate out of there.  I took one about 20 years ago.  Some of those ferries came to the aid of that jetliner that Sully landed in the Hudson.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, December 31, 2020 9:08 AM

MidlandMike
The Hudson is an estuary

The Hudson's also been described as a fijord, there's something to that, and is tidal all the way up to West Point. There's very little fresh water in evidence in the Hoboken area, trust me. 

Anyway, here's what the Riverkeeper has to say about it.  Interesting!

https://www.riverkeeper.org/hudson-river/basics/#:~:text=River%20Keeper&text=In%20fact%2C%20most%20of%20the,in%20Troy%2C%20approximately%20153%20miles.

PS:  Those tides would play a role in foiling Benedict Arnold's treason in 1780, but that's another story.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, December 31, 2020 12:34 PM

MidlandMike
While the grand old ferries are gone, there are now smaller ferries that operate out of there.

Perhaps surprisingly, this is true of the ex-CNJ Jersey City terminal as well.

And Beacon, NY, although what MN uses there is not what most people are going to think of when you say 'ferryboat'... Wink

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, December 31, 2020 7:36 PM

Definately not the first thing that comes to mind when you think of a ferryboat, but it looks like it gets the job done.

https://www.nywaterway.com/BeaconTerminal.aspx

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Posted by MidlandMike on Friday, January 1, 2021 11:05 PM

Flintlock76

 

 
MidlandMike
The Hudson is an estuary

 

The Hudson's also been described as a fijord, there's something to that, and is tidal all the way up to West Point. There's very little fresh water in evidence in the Hoboken area, trust me. 

Anyway, here's what the Riverkeeper has to say about it.  Interesting!

https://www.riverkeeper.org/hudson-river/basics/#:~:text=River%20Keeper&text=In%20fact%2C%20most%20of%20the,in%20Troy%2C%20approximately%20153%20miles.

PS:  Those tides would play a role in foiling Benedict Arnold's treason in 1780, but that's another story.

 

The tide in the Hudson goes all the way up to Troy.  Fun fact: the tide range is higher in Albany (6 feet) than in New York, because of shape of estuary and tidal "sloshing".  However, the tide is a long period wave, an is not directly related to the salt front.  The salt front mentioned by the riverkeeper is mesured by the USGS and is defined as 100 mg/L Cl (which is better than drinking water quality), whereas sea water is about 19,000 mg/L Cl.  It's also measured 10 feet below sea level, and salinity is higher due to density.  The point I was trying to make in my earlier post, was that the salt front is 3 dimentional, and has a gentle slope, with the fresh water over-riding the denser salt water.

I grew up in th New York area, and would swim in the ocean at Jones Beach.  Sometimes a wave would knock me over, and I would get a mouthful of salt water.  Luckily I never tasted the Hudson water at Hoboken, but I will take your word for it, that it is pretty salty.  Tables show that in winter the fresh surface water gets to the Tappen Zee, and I don't have difficulty seeing that ice flows could be preserved in the brackish surface water down to New York.  Of course, since the temperature only need to fall 4 degrees lower than freezing to freeze salt water, then that is also a possibility.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, January 5, 2021 9:26 AM

Today we're under the hood of an SP GP9.  Interesting.

I wonder if it's got that new car smell?  It is a GM product after all.

Clean as a whistle too.  I also wonder how long it stayed that way?

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, January 5, 2021 10:21 AM

I remember seeing the inside of ATSF 51 many years ago outside Pielet Brothers scrapyard, and the 567 engine definitely looked out of place, especially after seeing 244's in other PA's and PB's on the same scrapline.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, January 5, 2021 10:38 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH
I remember seeing the inside of ATSF 51 many years ago outside Pielet Brothers scrapyard, and the 567 engine definitely looked out of place

If Pielet actually got that unit, how did it ever get out?  Pielet was notorious for not letting anything 'intact' leave; there was one notorious case where someone went "cash in hand" to buy one of the last EL PAs and was refused on these grounds.

It was my understanding that the 567 engining of the ATSF units was recognized as a colossal failure within a short time, and was rather promptly reversed; 51 certainly had 244 power on D&H whether or not it was subsequently rebuilt with a 251 engine.  There was a now-politically-incorrect nickname assigned to the converted PAs, which I remember as related to the use of 'Christine' for the RI Alco (with the 'humps' added) -- as I recall NYC also tried a 567 in a PA carbody with similar lack of effect.

Tell me the story as you know it, since you were there firsthand. 

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Posted by timz on Tuesday, January 5, 2021 11:17 AM

Overmod
It was my understanding that the 567 engining of the ATSF units was recognized as a colossal failure within a short time, and was rather promptly reversed

Doubt you can find anyone who agrees that the 51 set reverted to 244s while on SFe. Post-SFe sounds unlikelier.

Did any RR ever rebuild a locomotive with another maker's diesel, then re-rebuild it back to original?

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, January 5, 2021 1:49 PM

D&H got 54B, 59L, 60L and 62L.  51LAB was the only AT&SF set re-engined.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, January 5, 2021 9:52 PM

It seems strange that ATSF would take PAs with only 7-odd years on them, rebuild them unsuccessfully (whether 'to send a message to Alco about 244 issues' or not) and then just scrap them afterward.  Since they happily ran large numbers of other PAs all the way past the 1967 Post Office contract termination -- why scrap them out?  Special consideration from EMD using the 567s for something else?

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, January 5, 2021 9:53 PM

timz
Did any RR ever rebuild a locomotive with another maker's diesel, then re-rebuild it back to original?

I thought famously NYC with their own PA eunuchry (a B-unit IIRC).  Perhaps I misunderstood and they scrapped it afterward; NYC and the PA were never a particular 'fit'.

And I believe we established it was 51LAC, not LAB, at least at that part of its history.  It has been a while since that discussion.

I wish I could remember the article I read about the ATSF repower.  One point was that the blower engines, already 750 aggregate HP down on the original set, lost even more horsepower with altitude compared to the turbo 244s.

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