Erie 4-4-2
Note the peculiar relationship between the valve chests and cylinders, and the relative size of the valves. These engines were built just after the turn of the century as Vauclain compounds -- Erie apparently had quite a few Atlantics of different classes built as such, most or all of which were simpled within about 3 years (one source indicating that standardized conversion 'kits' were made up for at least some classes). As the 'heart' of a Vauclain Conpound was its piston valve, these have to rank among the very, very few engines converted from piston to slide valves; this work being done several years before relative perfection of the Schmidt superheater and its progressive implementation on North American locomotives. These engines ran all the way into the early 1930s, so might have been rebuilt again not much later than the picture date with retrofitted superheat and piston valves of some kind... it may be Mike time to find later detailed pictures of E-2s.
As with the "what's in a picture" thread over on MR, the more you look at these the more details you notice. See the cinder hopper and drop pipe for smoke box cleanout? it looks almost as if this is an external hopper, whereas many contemporary engines used a simple cylindrical 'can' under the smokebox. Air tanks are torpedo style, up over the firebox. Look at those snazzy loops down to the paired check valves on the boiler side... injector arrangements might be interesting.
Not too surprised the Erie "went retro" with slide valves replacing the Vauclain compound system, the compounding worked all right but it was a maintanence headache. Railroads don't like maintanence headaches.
The Erie's Camels have a reputation of being the ugliest Camels ever built, but this one looks pretty good in that head-end shot, and not too bad in that 3/4 shot either.
Flintlock76the compounding worked all right but it was a maintenance headache.
The interesting thing here is that Erie apparently bought a lot of Baldwin Atlantics with that system as late as 1902, then had 'em all converted by 1905 or so. I suspect there is an untold story, and I am already suspicious that I know some of the reasons for it, behind Erie buying this wonder power and quickly giving it up as an expensive bad job. Surely there will be an account in the trade press somewhere about the Erie conversion 'kits' and their planning, and some discussions about why that response was needed...
This was far from the last time a Great Baldwin Innovation would prove to be pretty much a long-term maintenance disaster: they played a version of 'you bet your company's life' with that technical wider, Caprotti valve gear, in the late Twenties and, as far as I know, had to see every single one rebuilt -- even narrow-gauge.
From 2012: In December, the city's Bureau of Street Services announced that it would remove the railroad tracks
Wowee! 19th Century steamers!
I'm not sure, but the first one looks like the C.P. Huntington. Whatever it is, it's cute as a button!
The second, the Pioneer, is still around and in a museum, I don't remember which one. Believe it or not it was steamed up and run as late as the 1940's.
Yeah, added 2 more. Single driving wheel right under the engineer. Long way to the cylinder!
Hey Wayne! I like the new avatar!
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
Taking a better look at it as an enlargement, that's not a platform. It looks more like a city sidewalk, there's a sign clearly advertising a store or something. The station may be on the other side of the train out of view. But it is a bit odd that there's no fence or anything between the sidewalk and the rails.
Yeah, I know it's not a platform, it's a sidewalk. The sign say 'Loans'... maybe the Pennsy stopped for a loan to make a payment on that dumb E8. It's a strange setting that's for sure.
Grass goes right up to the track. Must be ballast somewhere. Maybe it's semi-street running. Gives meaning to ' Do not walk on the grass'.
Penny Trains Hey Wayne! I like the new avatar!
Thank you Ma'am! I finally figured out how to change the thing and went for the most dramatic image I could find. I found several Continental Marine (Marines with flintlocks, don't ya' know?) images that looked good and chose this one. It seemed to fit the bill pretty well.
Huzzah!
Penny TrainsBut it is a bit odd that there's no fence or anything between the sidewalk and the rails.
It's what old-time rail photographers used to call a "Railfan friendly station."
No fence or obstacles to keep you away from the train and spoil any possible camera angles. Of course, whether that's by accident or design is anyone's guess.
Miningman Ok now this looks like a family picture. It has me intrigued though. The Pennsy passenger has no platforms but grass instead! Where could this be?, Northern Michigan? There's a story here!
When you suggested northern Michigan, I thought of Petosky. The town became a major resort area in the 1800s thanks to the nearby Harbor Springs, which had a natural deepwater harbor that could dock any Great Lake passenger ship of the era. A lot of resorters came from Chicago. The GR&I (later PRR) had a wide ROW downtown, as it had resort commuter routes in 3 directions from Petosky, in addition to mainline trains. Later, when the multi-track line became single track, the rest of the ROW width became grassy Pennsylvania Park. However, as I looked closer, I noticed that the track has a curve, whereas this line went straight thru town. It also looks more urban that Petosky. The engine has an induction(?) antenna. Would PRR engines be thus equipped on their most remote line?
My attempt to make Erie 939's details more visible:
Ooops, cannot allow the smoke to be missing!
MV Kalakala was notable for her unique streamlinedsuperstructure, art deco styling, and luxurious amenities. The vessel was a popular attraction for locals and tourists, and was voted second only to the Space Needle in popularity among visitors to Seattleduring the 1962 Seattle World's Fair. The ship is known as the world's first streamlined vessel for her unique art deco styling.
After retiring from passenger service in 1967, the ship was beached in Kodiak, Alaska, and converted to a shrimp cannery. In 1998, the ship was refloated and towed to Puget Sound with the owner hoping to restore the ship. During this time, the ship continued to deteriorate, with the Coast Guard declaring the ship a hazard to navigation in 2011. Unable to raise the funds required for restoration, the ship was scrapped in 2015.
The story with plenty of pics.
https://jannaludlow.co.uk/Art_Deco/Kalakala.html
2) First to go were the lightning stripes.
Second to go were the minority builder Diesels
Third to go was the passenger trains.
Fourth to go was the New York Central Railroad
An absurd chain of errors beyond irresponsible. I'm sure almost none will agree with me but I stand with my statement.
3) When things were a bit more sensible. No need for this to have disappeared either.
4) I think something happened here to famous Milwaukee 1
They seemed to be stopped kind of no where along the high iron and the engineer and fireman are checking out something. Perhaps I am incorrect.
1) 5 guys, 2 trucks, a bunch of equipment, all to ice peas. Well it worked and UP made lots of money so there's something to be said for it all.
2) Big Pennsy power on Horseshoe. What is striking is no fence. Back when people had common sense and less lawyers.
3) Always New York City pics lately, so I thought maybe Chicagos turn.
Coach yard. Impressive.
4) Departing with the Liberty Limited in the Fleet of Modernism scheme. Make Jones happy anyway.
The little boy in the picture appears to be holding a camera which makes me think it might have been a fan trip.
I believe this is the C&NW coach yard, preWWII. (?)
And if things were truly sensible today, could not this be recreated? And do whales of good in the process?
Put catenary over the ex-C&NW (UP), put in the flyovers at Davis or Main, Evanston, buy back from the two musuems, rebuild for dual current and current collection. replace one trap-stair combination each side with MUNI-style step-elevators, have the snackbars run by a good Chicago, Evanston, or Waukegan restaurant, charge the normal NETRA fares. Well, I can dream, can't I?
The coach yards are the long-gone C&NW north side yards. The bridges crossing the yard are Grand Ave. and North Avenue. The north side yards served the North and Northwest line's suburban services, with the West Line's trains served then as now at Western Ave.
Thank you rcdrye. Here's an expanded view.
Thamks!
1) A somewhat interesting photo... a pair of Bp20's leading an E on a short Pennsy passenger train, maybe a commuter? ... and all under wire to boot! Where's the GG1? Also looks a bit like its Nebraska or something but of course not. Perhaps the E broke down or it's a power move. If not then really overpowered. Baggage car trailing. All heavyweights too! Maybe going somewhere in a big hurry.
2) Not very common to see Penn Central in a very classy light but in this instance they are looking very classy indeed.
3) N&W trying to look 'railroady', ...well not bad but you still need a J up front.
4) Last look at the Kalakala Ferry. If Milwaukee and Burlington got together and built a ferry, and sprinkle in a little bit of Pennsy S1 then this is it.
Dreary end.
Nice selection here! Let's see now...
Photo 1) Unless I miss my guess that Pennsy train's operating on the New York & Long Branch in New Jersey and approaching South Amboy. That's Raritan Bay on the far left. And if it's the NY&LB it's definately a commuter train. I'd guess those two "Sharks" are rescue power, or it's a power balancing move. Those overhead wires would end just out of sight to the right of the frame. GG1's would handle the commuter trains from Jersey City to South Amboy, and then would hand off to steam engines, and then later to diesels which would complete the runs to Bay Head. The wires extended past the station to facilitate shifting of the GG1's.
the NY&LB was jointly owned by the PRR and the Jersey Central and saw trains from both 'roads. For the Pennsy it was kind of a "last stand" for some of their famous engines like the K4's and the Sharks. Steam ended on the NY&LB in 1957. The 'road's now called the North Jersey Coast Line and operated by NJ Transit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_and_Long_Branch_Railroad
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Jersey_Coast_Line
Photo 2) Wow, I've never seen Penn Central engines look so clean!
Photo 3) Yeah, that N&W "Geep" was the replacement for the Class J's. It just wasn't the same afterward. Nothing was the same afterward.
Photo 4) Too bad about the old Kalakala, but that's the problem with big, old antiques. If they can't earn their keep in one way or another it's curtains for them.
Thanks for the in depth explanation Wayne. Getting a good explanation and resources on a pic puts in all in perpesctive.
I saw my first N&W diesel when I was in Farmville, visiting an uncle and his family, in July of 1959. It came in with on #4, the Pocahontas. After having seen J's (and one streamlined K) in Bristol, it was a dreary sight.
Johnny
Yeah N&W diselization roughly coincided with what happened in Canada from Saskatchewan and Eastward, the mountains and BC having gone earlier.
It was trauma for a young boy early teen. I would just walk away when it became apparent it was Diesels. Who cares. Dumb horn sounds like a cow. Cows sounded better. Stinks like a bus, stupid things.
Perhaps if it were 20 years earlier in the stream line era with slant nose E's and weird looking Turbines then I might have been excited as a kid like William O. Craig stated but really nothing was going to take the place of those familiar steam locomotives and their antics. Coal, water, noise, thumping, cranking, hissing, the coal smoke, the valve oil, it was a real sight to behold.
In Burlington there was always one steam loco at a water tank, or coal chute or at the fruit sheds. There was always another waiting on of the two junctions that met the main line, and every 15 minutes one that just flew thru at track speed 79mph and then another stopping at the station. All that ended with the Diesels because everything changed.
Of course I'm an old softie with beautiful memories and I do lament a lot. Diesels still pop my balloon.
There was a slightly less outlandish if less ship-like ferry in Sydney Australia which I remember...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Iq8uKWpjl4
Peter
Nice little ferry. Can see why they nicknamed it The Submarine. Had a fairly short service life about 30 years. Sorry to see it got scraped. Would have been a great addition to our Lac La Ronge up here, which is really a small inland ocean. Just the right size! Nice styling, luv that top deck railing going around. Thanks Peter, who knew?!
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