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World's fair wonder

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Posted by M636C on Monday, February 4, 2019 9:39 PM

Dr Marre suggests that it was displayed because it was the unit that had been displayed in 1939, and because it was traded in at the right time for the fair. It might have been displayed for a short time only, maybe for a photo next to the GP 35 for PR purposes, what politicians now refer to as a Photo opportunity....

I'd expect that EMD would have a photo if they've kept their archives (which I doubt)

Peter

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, February 4, 2019 9:11 PM

I have the Trains complete collection on disk. When I get back to the College I will see if I can find the article. Won't be back until Thursday but realistically likely next week during exams when I'm just sitting there invigulating. 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, February 4, 2019 7:49 PM

Folks, I can't find any photos of any E-unit displayed at the 64-65 Worlds Fair at all.  My personal opinion is there wasn't one, and that LIRR cab display is probably the cause of the confusion.  

At any rate, by 1964 the E-unit was old news.  Cab units were on the way out, and the more versitile Geeps were more than on the way in.  Why would GM showcase what to them was yesterdays news?  

Mind you, I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong if an E-unit photo does show up, so keep looking if you like, I'm through.

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Posted by M636C on Monday, February 4, 2019 6:57 PM

Jones1945

This one? 

 

The bottom photo appears to show a different unit than the first two photos. The work going on in the background suggests the GM pavilion is still beig constructed, or refurbished for the 1940 exhibition.

The locomotives in all photos lack the folding nose door.

On page 45 of December 1971 "Trains", the top photo shows the red and black unit being switched into position, with the nose "wings" without the raised "GM Diesel" lettering in the photo above, and it is clear that there is no nose door. The second photo clearly shows the lettering  "Seaboard" on the red upper body panels. It was numbered 1940, despite being displayed during 1939. However, EMD records give its build date at 11-39 (after the 1939 NYWF season) and list it as an E-6. Apparently it was rebuilt with a new build date after the fair. It was probably built in 12-38 or 1-39 at the end of the first batch of Seaboard units (the first production 567 engined E units).

So in theory at least, EMC 1940 was built as an E-3, fitted with an E-4 nose door and delivered as an E-6 after display at the fair.It is shown as delivered 20 January 1940, so could not have appesred in the show for 1940.

It is this unit that was said to be displayed at the 1964 fair after being traded in on an SDP-35.

But what was the unit displayed during the 1940 Fair session? Was it the unit in the third photo?

Dr Marre's article in the December 1971 "Trains" pages 38-47 does not identify any second E unit as being displayed.

Peter

 

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, February 4, 2019 4:29 PM

Jones1945
Are you sure it was a EMD E-units, Overmod? I remember you said that you didn't grab your glasses when visiting the fair. I can only find the pic of the GP-35.

I don't remember seeing GP35 1964 (or much of the GM exhibit at all) when I was there that year (in part this was because we were a Ford family and didn't care much for 'the General')

I was going by a piece I remember in Trains that said GM had displayed ... somewhere, not very prominent ... at least one slant-nose E unit that had been taken in as a trade-in, which I recall as being THE unit that was displayed at the earlier Fair  -- then rather promptly scrapped it afterward.  It should be relatively easy to fact-check this for someone with a functional Complete Collection.

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Posted by Jones1945 on Monday, February 4, 2019 3:20 AM

Overmod

If I recall correctly, GM displayed at least one of these at some point in the '64-'65 Fair (taken in as trade-ins and displayed before scrapping) but I couldn't turn up a picture on the Web.  Who can?

Are you sure it was a EMD E-units, Overmod? I remember you said that you didn't grab your glasses when visiting the fair. I can only find the pic of the GP-35. 

 

Penny Trains

"Model of a Futuristic Containerized Freight Terminal"

Hard to say what they had in mind as far as operational procedures for this concept, but it makes me think of a sort of elevator warehousing system.  It might have worked if the containers went back full...

I guess this concept was inspired by the "Freestanding 48 Car Elevator Parking Garage" of Chicago. Reviewing the photo and videos of 1964-1965 World's Fair, it was fascinating! So much interesting concept and vision design all in one place. Too bad that GM's "Train of Tomorrow" of 1948 was scrapped in the same year of 64-65 World's Fair...

  

MidlandMike

I was at the 64-65 NY World's Fair a few times, and I remember the GP-35, but I don't remember a cab unit at GM's pavillion.  The LIRR had some displays by their Fair train station, including (part of?) a cab unit (Alco?).

Alco PA cab: 

https://www.worldsfairphotos.com/nywf64/images/lirr-2.jpg

 

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Posted by MidlandMike on Sunday, February 3, 2019 9:54 PM

I was at the 64-65 NY World's Fair a few times, and I remember the GP-35, but I don't remember a cab unit at GM's pavillion.  The LIRR had some displays by their Fair train station, including (part of?) a cab unit (Alco?).

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, February 3, 2019 7:18 PM

"Model of a Futuristic Containerized Freight Terminal"

Hard to say what they had in mind as far as operational procedures for this concept, but it makes me think of a sort of elevator warehousing system.  It might have worked if the containers went back full...

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, February 3, 2019 6:42 PM

Found something!  Check this out.  (You'll have to scroll down for it, but lot's of pictures!)

www.worldsfaircommunity.org/topic/14367-gm-locomotive/  

It's a GP-35.  Now I'll tell you, I was at the Worlds Fair in 1964 and  1965, and remember the GM pavilion, but I don't remember this locomotive at all.  I'm not surprised, the "World Of The Future" was the main theme of the GM exhibits, the Geep was apparantly the outlier. 

I couldn't find anything at all resembling the 1939 cab unit at the '64 fair.

Here's a site with MORE than you'll ever want to know about the GM pavilion...

www.nywf64.com/gm01.shtml  

I'm amazed I found the locomotive pictures at all.  Gee, now I know how Wanswheel (Mike) feels!  What a rush... 

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, February 3, 2019 12:06 PM

If I recall correctly, GM displayed at least one of these at some point in the '64-'65 Fair (taken in as trade-ins and displayed before scrapping) but I couldn't turn up a picture on the Web.  Who can?

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, February 3, 2019 10:48 AM

Jones1945
This one? 


SAL's E-4's were notable in being the only, to my knowledge, locomotives that had the front door being retractable.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Jones1945 on Sunday, February 3, 2019 10:10 AM

This one? 

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World's fair wonder
Posted by SSW9389 on Saturday, February 2, 2019 9:52 AM

Classic Trains Winter 2018 edition has a photo of EMC demonstrator #1939 at the New York World Fair. See pages 14 and 15. The E unit in the photograph is described as an E6A, which it isn't. The swinging doors on the nose give this unit away as an E4A. This particular E4A became Seaboard #3013. The following year EMC E6A demonstrator #1940 took the #1939's place at the GM exhibit. That demonstrator became Seaboard #3014 after the Fair.  

 

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