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World's fair wonder

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, March 4, 2019 7:21 AM

The loop was part of Cleveland Rwy's East 9th Street line.  The fair was probably the last hurrah for Lake Shore Electric's wooden cars.  You can see the condition of the cars' paint in a couple of the pictures.

Lake Shore Electric's cars normally terminated at Public Square, in front of Terminal Tower by 1936 (That's the tall building.  Tallest west of New York until 1964).  East 9th cars didn't go to the public square, but track connections worked out for the LSE's cars to use Superior to E. 9th.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, March 3, 2019 7:27 PM

Erik_Mag
if he would have driven or taken the Lake Shore Electric.

The Lake Shore had a loop at the East 9th Street pier.  You can make it out in this photo just above the large lake steamer on the left:

Cars on the loop during the expo:

And in 1938:

Legend says that during the 2 years that Admiral Byrd's ship was docked at the expo, the city was busy building a bridge that would end up trapping the ship and keeping it from continuing it's tour.

Doubt that's true.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Jones1945 on Sunday, March 3, 2019 11:54 AM

M636C

 

 
Penny Trains

Would've been an obvious choice:

 

 

 

Interestingly, The Japanese tried this design first:

http://tadayusaku.3.pro.tok2.com/pashina/05.jpg

The photo shows locomotive 751 preserved in Shenyang in about 1981

Peter

It is still a case unclosed! I believe the Japanese who designed the 1934 Asia Express, who was employed by NYC in the early-1930s, saw the draft of the proposed streamlined Mercury and stolen the idea, applied it on the Asia Express. 

https://www.trains-worldexpresses.com/500/507.htm

Coincidence? No, NO, NOO.

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Posted by M636C on Saturday, March 2, 2019 11:39 PM

Penny Trains

Would've been an obvious choice:

 

Interestingly, The Japanese tried this design first:

http://tadayusaku.3.pro.tok2.com/pashina/05.jpg

The photo shows locomotive 751 preserved in Shenyang in about 1981

Peter

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Posted by Jones1945 on Saturday, March 2, 2019 7:47 PM

FYI.

What cost 15 dollars in 1936 and 1937 would cost $271.63 and 262.2 in 2019 respectively. Almost enough to buy a 5-car HO scale plastic trainset (made in China) today. 

A round trip for a seat on PRR Trail Blazer was $30.9 in 1939, would cost $565.25 in 2018.

UA non stop coach class (a.k.a no class), NY to Chi-Town $246, First Class $620.59 (would cost 33.93 in 1939) 

Travel time: Choo Choo 1939--> 17 hours, Amtrak 2019 --->19h10mins ($220 round trip)
Air--------> 2hr30mins + check in 1.45 hours in advance = around 4-5 hours (assuming no delay). 

 

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Posted by Erik_Mag on Saturday, March 2, 2019 12:23 AM

Penny Trains

The book I have suggests that depending on how much and where you ate, and how many souvenirs you bought, the cost of attending would range between 6 and 15 dollars in 1936/37.

Becky,

Sounds like something my grandfather could afford, since he would have the expense of just him and my mom - my grandmother died when my mom was 3. Don't if he would have driven or taken the Lake Shore Electric. The event does seem like something he would have taken my mom to see.

A weird thought, the only time I've been to Cleveland was in 1962 (age 7), which would have been 26 years after the fair - been more than twice that time since that trip. Don't remember much of the city, most of the memories were of my great aunt's (grandmother's sister) house in Shaker Heights.

 - Erik

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Posted by Jones1945 on Friday, March 1, 2019 3:48 AM

Penny Trains

Yeah.  Those widebody converts were a bit odd looking.

But, so was the locomotive!  Laugh

 

They were the perfect match Stick out tongue Maybe Mr. Dreyfuss wanted to emphasize the inner beauty of the Mercury Train, but why couldn't we have both? CoffeeLaugh

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Posted by Penny Trains on Thursday, February 28, 2019 8:15 PM

Erik_Mag
I wonder of my mom visited the Cleveland fair, she was 15 at the time and living in Lakewood. I do remember her talking about CUT and the Lake Shore Electric.

The book I have suggests that depending on how much and where you ate, and how many souvenirs you bought, the cost of attending would range between 6 and 15 dollars in 1936/37.  Adjusted for inflation, that's 100 to 250 dollars per person, per day.  My mom says my grandparents used to walk there from their home on West 65th St.  (However that's quite a hike so if they did go they most likely used public transit.)  My grandparents certainly didn't have money so if they did go, I'm sure they spent as little as possible.  It was the height of the great depression after all.  But they didn't have 10 kids yet either.  Wink

Most sources describe the Expo's guests as well heeled, well dressed and well...white.

It didn't help that the Florida exhibit had "happy singing simulated slaves" working by the simulated plantation house:

Did I mention that John D. lived here?

Euclid Avenue was known as "Millionaire's Row".

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Thursday, February 28, 2019 7:58 PM

Yeah.  Those widebody converts were a bit odd looking.

But, so was the locomotive!  Laugh

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Jones1945 on Thursday, February 28, 2019 4:04 AM

Penny Trains

Would've been an obvious choice:

Thank you, Becky. It really looks like an upside down bathtub but it was a cute bathtub :-)  Sometimes, a product or service which can make user laugh can be a success as well; Although it was not Mr. Dreyfuss original intention to entertain the traveler with an upside-down bathtub, but the Mercury was undoubtedly a successful train of NYCRR.  

The Dreyfuss K5a when serving the train James Whitcomb Riley (Chicago <-> Cincinnati ) Another train using rebuilt HW equipment, noted the bathtub shrouding was extended, exposing the firebox and the trailing truck. 

 

I prefer the construction method and design of PRR's betterment observation car to NYC's cars, but they still looked decent with the lightweight equipment. 

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Posted by Erik_Mag on Thursday, February 28, 2019 12:37 AM

A possible runner up choice would have been if CUT needed more electric locomotives and got standard gauge versions the Paulista 3KVDC passenger locomotive with the NYNH&H EP-4 carbody.

I wonder of my mom visited the Cleveland fair, she was 15 at the time and living in Lakewood. I do remember her talking about CUT and the Lake Shore Electric.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Wednesday, February 27, 2019 8:16 PM

Would've been an obvious choice:

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Jones1945 on Wednesday, February 27, 2019 4:51 AM

Penny Trains

WOW!  What a beauty that B&O building is!  Big Smile

Thanks guys for the kind words about the Expo pics!  Big Smile

You know, strangely enough one of the most frustrating parts of researching the 1936-37 Great Lakes Exposition is the fact that so few pics from inside the shops, restaurants, attractions and pavillions exist.  Obviously the one I'd like to know the most about was this:

A fascinating collection of the Great Lake Exposition! Thank you so much, Becky.

Henry Dreyfuss's “upside-down bathtub” streamlined K-5 appeared on two posters of the Expo, I guess she was one of the main focus of the event. the "Dreyfuss K-5 " was a good example of the idiom "Failure is the Mother of Success", although I actually think that the styling of Mercury wasn't that bad. Coffee

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Posted by Penny Trains on Tuesday, February 26, 2019 7:57 PM

Thanks guys!

Here's the arena where the Parade was held, just behind the Standard Drug Building which is just behind the White Motors/Greyhound tram:

Another piece of Lost Cleveland:

Home of the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers from 1910 to 1969.

And it's twin accross the street:

The unfortunately timed B.L.E. Bank building (opened just before the depression), which is still standing.

The Bank, as the "Standard Building" is now an upscale apartment complex.  Thankfully!  https://www.thestandardcle.com/

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, February 26, 2019 3:05 PM

Excerpt from The Last Great Railroad Show by Curtis Katz, Trains, Aug.1998

With the Chicago Railroad Fair, the nation's railroads threw a big party for one final time... 

The creator of this theatrical wonder was Edward Hungerford, "the dean of American railroad authors." An architect by training, a journalist by trade, Hungerford penned scores of articles and a dozen books on railroading. While preparing a massive history of the B&O in 1927, Hungerford was appointed by B&O President Daniel Willard to organize that company's centennial celebration. The result was the wildly successful Fair of the Iron Horse, which included a daily parade of historic equipment accompanied by floats, music, and costumed actors. This was the genesis of Hungerford's transportation stage pageants of the 1930's: "Wings of a Century" at Chicago's A Century of Progress, historical pageants for the centenaries of Rochester and Syracuse in Hungerford's native upstate New York, "Parade of the Years" in 1936 for Cleveland's Great Lakes Exposition . . . and Hungerford's magnum opus, "Railroads on Parade," for the Railroads exhibit at the 1939-40 New York World's Fair...
 
 

 

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, February 25, 2019 10:21 PM

 

Late Edit :
 
Penny posted a tiny Tom Thumbnail of a double-deck 2-car train.
 
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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, February 25, 2019 7:48 PM

Balt's mention of functionally illiterate people working in the B&O Building reminded of two men on my college's Building and Grounds Crew--they could write their own names, but nothing else. Each had as his primary responsibility the janitorial work in a building, and then performing such tasks as the superintendent assigned them daily. 

Johnny

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, February 25, 2019 7:31 PM

Miningman
A magnificent structure it was. Projected the power of the railroads. 
 
 
 
All of the above brought to you by your friendly neighbourhood Mike  

Several things -

In the picture following the 'color postcard'  The Charles Center Building where all Chessie headquarters functions were move is visible as the 'glass faced building' directly behind the B&O Building, with the Main Frame computers remaining in the B&O Building for a number of years even after the formation of CSX.  The Baltimore computers became the off site back up for the CSX computers in Jacksonville.

The bottom two color pictures show the building in its 'renovated' condition.  The marble that is seen in the stair case in both the stairs and the wall facings is most likely some of the marble that was used to create Rest Room stalls on all floors of the building.  During the renovation period I had a view that overlooked the North side of the B&O Building - I could see workmen breaking the marble and forcing it down the construction channels to the debris dumpsters that occupied the Northside alley.

The B&O staff that operated the building (elevator operators, freight handlers, janatorial staff etc.) had their own seniority district within the Brotherhood of Railroad and Airline Clerks - BRAC.  When Chessie was disposing of the building, that seniority district, which had approximately 80 members, was folded into the other clerical seniority district in Baltimore.  Problem was these individuals had never been required to do any 'clerical' work in their careers - in fact about 60 of them with 25 to 40 years of service were functionally illiterate and were unable to be trained to become the modern defination of clerks.  The remaining 20 were put through a company training program to 'bring them up to speed' on being clerks - as I recall 14 of the succeeded.  Those that didn't were given severance and well wishes for their next employment opportunity - harsh but the 'family' feeling of the railroad was quickly being extinguished, despite the Seaboard side of CSX considering themselves 'The Family Lines'.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, February 25, 2019 7:05 PM

Penny Trains
WOW!  What a beauty that B&O building is!  Big Smile

Thanks guys for the kind words about the Expo pics!  Big Smile

You know, strangely enough one of the most frustrating parts of researching the 1936-37 Great Lakes Exposition is the fact that so few pics from inside the shops, restaurants, attractions and pavillions exist.  Obviously the one I'd like to know the most about was this:

This is what I know:  http://digitalcollections.nyhistory.org/islandora/object/islandora%3A72709

 

I have a semi-blurry photo taken from across the 9 lakefront tracks that shows this train and 2 other woodburners parked on the staging tracks that you can see on this map, just right of center:

Unfortunately it wasn't brought back for the 1937 season.  In 1936 the Expo featured a fair amount of nudity at the Streets of the World concessions:

That, coupled with the fact that it cost an average of 6 to 15 dollars (100 to 250 in 2019 funds) to spend a day at the Expo, not a lot of families came during the 1936 height of the depression season.  The dancers were evicted however and more wholesome entertainment was added for 1937.  But sadly for us the Parade of the Years was replaced with an ice skating show.

I believe all of the equipment that you pictrured are items that were a part of the B&O's Centenial - Fair of the Iron Horse in 1927 at Halethorpe, MD - where I spent the last 8 years of my career as well as 4 years in the middle of my career (different postitions and job duties).

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Penny Trains on Monday, February 25, 2019 6:48 PM

WOW!  What a beauty that B&O building is!  Big Smile

Thanks guys for the kind words about the Expo pics!  Big Smile

You know, strangely enough one of the most frustrating parts of researching the 1936-37 Great Lakes Exposition is the fact that so few pics from inside the shops, restaurants, attractions and pavillions exist.  Obviously the one I'd like to know the most about was this:

This is what I know:  http://digitalcollections.nyhistory.org/islandora/object/islandora%3A72709

 

I have a semi-blurry photo taken from across the 9 lakefront tracks that shows this train and 2 other woodburners parked on the staging tracks that you can see on this map, just right of center:

Unfortunately it wasn't brought back for the 1937 season.  In 1936 the Expo featured a fair amount of nudity at the Streets of the World concessions:

That, coupled with the fact that it cost an average of 6 to 15 dollars (100 to 250 in 2019 funds) to spend a day at the Expo, not a lot of families came during the 1936 height of the depression season.  The dancers were evicted however and more wholesome entertainment was added for 1937.  But sadly for us the Parade of the Years was replaced with an ice skating show.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, February 25, 2019 4:50 PM

A magnificent structure it was. Projected the power of the railroads. 

 
 
 
All of the above brought to you by your friendly neighbourhood Mike  
 
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Posted by Jones1945 on Monday, February 25, 2019 12:40 PM

BaltACD

...When the AC systems for the building were designed no one had heard of office computers - in the middle 80's every employee in the building had one or more computers to be used in completing their work assignments - each one pumping out heat.

I love this sharing, Balt. I can imagine all those different kinds of electric fans were placed all over the office to help cool down the office. 

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, February 25, 2019 7:53 AM

M636C
 
Flintlock76

And I'll be they had a hell of a time knocking that armory down, damn them!

Those old armories were built like medieval castles, and meant to last just as long.

What a waste!  What a lousy waste! 

A bit over 20 years ago, the oldest Department of Defence offices in Canberra were demolished to be replaced by two new buildings. These were built in the mid 1950s and these were quite substantial. The outer walls were more than a foot thick of reinforced concrete with a sort of pebble finish The roofs were thick copper on steel trusses. The general impression was that after a non-direct nuclear blast, you'd replace the windows and get back to work. The contractors did get them down but I bet they lost money on the deal. The replacements are made from ticky tacky and wouldn't stand up to a really major storm. These weren't anything of architectural note but they were well made and would have lasted longer if someone had bit the bullet and rewired them for current IT systems.

Peter

In the Great Baltimore Fire of 1904 the original B&O headquaters were turned to ashes.  The B&O then built the B&O Building at the corner of Baltimore & Charles Streets was constructed in a period of 11 months.  The B&O/Chessie System placed its Main Frame computers on the top two floors of the bulding.  When Chessie Systme decided to move the headquarters a block up the street to the Meis VanDerRhoe designed 2 North Charles street building that was part of Baltimores urban renewal reconstruction of the 1950's & 60's it was discovered that the only place in that building the computers could be placed were either the ground floor or the basement of the building - the floor loading of the computers exceeded the the 50 pounds per square foot loading that was felt safe for the upper floors of 2 North Charles.  The computers stayed on the top two floors of the B&O Building - even as the building was deeded to the City of Baltimore for redevelopment; the building is now being used as the Kimpton Monaco Hotel (the CSX computers have been removed in the intervening 40 years).

Totally highlights the difference in early 1900's engineering and post WWII engineering.  Before - make it STRONG, strong beyond what we can calculate.  After - make it JUST STRONG ENOUGH to do todays mission without worrying about the next day.

Having worked in 2 North Charles - during the period of time I worked there, the building was totally deficient in air conditioning capacity.  When the AC systems for the building were designed no one had heard of office computers - in the middle 80's every employee in the building had one or more computers to be used in completing their work assignments - each one pumping out heat.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Jones1945 on Monday, February 25, 2019 4:53 AM

Flintlock76

Good idea for a model railroad club in that old station Mr. Jones, but unfortunately the building's spoken for.  Maybe interested students could start one?  Like Dave Klepper did when he was at MIT?  Dave's old club is still there and still going strong.

There IS an old train station that I know of with a resident train club, it's the old Erie station in Hillsdale NJ, the Bergen County Model Railroad Club occupies the second floor.

I didn't know Mr. Klepper is a club member of the MIT's Tech Model Railroad Club! That is really cool. I bet I could see some rare experimental or vision engine and trains model in MIT's railroad club!

 

Penny Trains

Not a World's Fair, but Cleveland's Great Lakes Exposition of 1936-37 had an interresting railroad connection.  Especially if you were a railfan!

For starters you had the Timken roller bearings exhibit in the Hall of Progress:

Travelling to the fair by rail?  You could use the new (7 years old) Cleveland Union Terminal:

It was such an amazing Art Deco adventure! Thank you Becky for leading us to visit the time tunnel, travel to the fabulous fair of America and epic history of them! I love all these fascinating pics you posted! Thumbs Up 

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Posted by M636C on Monday, February 25, 2019 3:47 AM

Flintlock76

And I'll be they had a hell of a time knocking that armory down, damn them!

Those old armories were built like medieval castles, and meant to last just as long.

What a waste!  What a lousy waste!

 

 

A bit over 20 years ago, the oldest Department of Defence offices in Canberra were demolished to be replaced by two new buildings. These were built in the mid 1950s and these were quite substantial. The outer walls were more than a foot thick of reinforced concrete with a sort of pebble finish The roofs were thick copper on steel trusses. The general impression was that after a non-direct nuclear blast, you'd replace the windows and get back to work. The contractors did get them down but I bet they lost money on the deal. The replacements are made from ticky tacky and wouldn't stand up to a really major storm. These weren't anything of architectural note but they were well made and would have lasted longer if someone had bit the bullet and rewired them for current IT systems.

Peter

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, February 24, 2019 10:24 PM

And I'll be they had a hell of a time knocking that armory down, damn them!

Those old armories were built like medieval castles, and meant to last just as long.

What a waste!  What a lousy waste!

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, February 24, 2019 8:53 PM

Thanks, Becky for the picture of the L&N's station in Knoxville. Now I know what it looks like--the only time I was in it was at night, back in 1963, after taking the Tennessean from Bristol and then taking the Flamingo to Atlanta.

Johnny

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, February 24, 2019 8:38 PM

Terrific posting Penny. As an outsider peering through the looking glass this is America at its finest. 

Popular opinion these days would condem and be highly critical of what's going on in those pictures. 

Yeah, tear it all down, ... brilliant. 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, February 24, 2019 8:08 PM

Lincoln arrived at the original 1854 Union Depot on his way to Washington in 1861 and passed through the under construction depot in 1865 (after the wood 54 station burned down) on his way to Springfield:

Company C of the 11th USA infantry regiment camped out at the Expo:

Their camp is on the right edge of this postcard view:

An "army" of a different sort.  The Yeomanettes, Expo tour guides:

Most soldiers mustered out of the Central Armory:

It hosted the Cleveland Industrial Exposition of 1909:

And...

As you might expect:

Grand old building with classic architecture?  Sure.  RIP IT DOWN!  SoapBox

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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