Conduit car as intended as built on Third AvenueL
Two on the "T" on Amsterdam Avenue
Conduit cars equipped with poles (1947) on the 161st-163rd St. Crosstown, probably on West 155th Street Manhattan just west of 8th Avenue, the Polo Grounds, and the McdCoombs Dam Bridkge to The Bronx, where 186 is headed, with the end point the destination sign shows as Hunts Point. 127 will get as far as Amsterdam Avenue.
Midland Mike: All the lines dikscussed in my posting were built as competitors. For a short time, all streetcar lines were leased to the Metropolitan Railway, but reverted to the originsal owners shofrtly after that company entered receivership.
Unification in Manhattan between surface and rapid transit took place well after bus conversion and even after end of the South Ferry - Chatham Square part of the Third Avbenue Elevated.
The Third Avenue line converted to cable in two sections, north of 6th on Dec 4, 1893 and to the Post Office on February 11, 1894. According to Hilton's "Cable Car in America" it required 4350 tons of iron yokes and 46000 barrels of cement. The cable installation was barely complete before TARS started converting other lines to conduit electric operation. The Third Avenue line was converted in 1899. Among cable lines Third Avenue was considered number two in traffic density, after Chicago's State Street line.
I presume they were built as competitors. Did they eventually under the same management ?
Correct. First came the horsecar streetcar, Manhattan's second, after the NY & Harlem on 4th Avenue and lower Park Avenue, ,then came the steam-operated elevated, then conversion of the horsecar line to cable. then cable to conduit electrification, then conversion of the steam elevated line to electricity, then rebuilding of the elevated with a continuous center track, then conversion of the streetcar to bus with tracks above 59th Street kept in service several months for use of the 65th Street shops for Queensboro Bridge cars and K and 125 X put-ins and pull-outs, then abandonment and removal of the elevated.
rc can more easily provide the exact dates.
Note correction to a previous post and insertion of the missing photo.
daveklepper Third Avenue and E. 86th Street, 124 on the line for which it was built:
Third Avenue and E. 86th Street, 124 on the line for which it was built:
I presume that is the 3rd Avenue El above the trolley tracks. Which came first, and were they competitors, at least initally?
And this previously "unknown location" is on Burnside Avenue west of Webster Avenue.
Former conduit car 127 on Tremont Avenue Line on Burnside Avenue approaching University Avenue:
Former conduit car replacing convertabils on the 167th Si. Crosstown approaching the Washington Bridge to West 181st Street, Manhattan:
Correct, and usually called the 207th Street Bridge.
daveklepper ...ex-Third Avnue Manhattan conduit car 104 entering The Bronx on the 207th Street Fordham Road Crosstown:
...ex-Third Avnue Manhattan conduit car 104 entering The Bronx on the 207th Street Fordham Road Crosstown:
What bridge is the trolley crossing? I assume it is over the Harlem River.
Formr 59th Street Manhattan conduit car 628 at a Bronx location to be determined, and ex-Third Avnue Manhattan conduit car 104 entering The Bronx on the 207th Street Fordham Road Crosstown:
AT Third Avenue and 65th Street:
Also, on this thread, one of my previously posted photos shows 199 turning the corner possibly just moments after the screen-shot photo, so unless other information is available, I'll assume a missing photo has been returned to me.
Yes, the two local track are n the first level, and the bi-directtional, signalled, south in AM, north in PM, express track above.
Its platforms are directly over the local tracks.
This was typical of Manhattan elevated express stations, often called "hump stations."
125th St., 3rd Ave., was an exception, in that north of the station, the express track continued on an upper level to the upper level of the 4-track double-level bridge over the Harlem River.
See the thread on Remembering the Third Avenue Elevated.
[
daveklepper There is something very unusual about this photo. 125th & 3rd is the south end of the "K," as it is for the replacement M100 bus today. Usually, a "K" would turn the corner, change ends, use the spring-loaded trailing crossover, and return to 125th Street for the run to Marble Hill, Broadway and W. 225th Street. So why is somebody boarding the car? Does he plan to ride north although boarding at a southbound car-stop? Or is about to be told by the operator not to board? Or is the car a pull-out, headed for the 3rd Avenue & 65th Street Carhouse?
There is something very unusual about this photo. 125th & 3rd is the south end of the "K," as it is for the replacement M100 bus today. Usually, a "K" would turn the corner, change ends, use the spring-loaded trailing crossover, and return to 125th Street for the run to Marble Hill, Broadway and W. 225th Street. So why is somebody boarding the car? Does he plan to ride north although boarding at a southbound car-stop? Or is about to be told by the operator not to board? Or is the car a pull-out, headed for the 3rd Avenue & 65th Street Carhouse?
Are there 2 levels of elevated track in the photo?
Changing ends at the Foot of Main Street, fan-trip or regular "7" car to Mt. Vernon, while a long-distance New York Central train speeds through the Yonkers Station without stopping.
The following photo was sent me as taken as a screenshot. Does anyone know who was the photographer? Just possibly may have been myself, and a previous posting has another identical "K" car at the same location, 125th St. and 3d Av.
And returning to Manhattan, we saw 180 at Park Row City Hall in an earlier posting von this thread. Here it is adjacent to the main shop and carhouse at 65th Street, with the Elevated's 67th Street Station in the background:
The northern terminal:
Jack May corrected me in that The Bowery and Park Row had four tracks.
The line that came closest to being an interurban in the Third Avenue system was the New Rochelle (at the NYNH&H Sta.) - Subway (E. 241st St. and White Pl. Rd-Av.) line which connected The Bronx, Mt. Vernon, Pelham, and New Rochelle. But this was all paved in-street track. The Yonkers "5" line, Neperhan Avenue, was wholey within Yonkers, but, after TARS' two East River bridge lines quit, had the only revenue track of the system not in pavement.
8/31/85 125th & 8th to 186th and Amsterdam 12/01/86 125th St from river to river 12/05/93 3rd Ave from 130th to 6th 2/11/94 3rd Ave line from 6th to Park Row Note that at 125th and Third, the north-south cables were located below the original east-west ones. End of cable operation (the following day electric operation began): 9/10/99 125th Street from river to river and Amsterdam 10/22/99 3rd Ave from 130th to 65th 11/18/99 3rd Ave line from 65th to Park Row (65th to 6th electric and 6th to Park Row horse starting 11/19, 6th to Park Row electric from 11/24
Park Row - City Hall. March 1947:
Third and Amsterdam Avenue Line, but before December 1935 tracks at this location shared with 4th and Madisob line, the successor to the World's original street railwaטץ
194 near the 125th Street Fort Lee Ferry and then after the last day od Bronx Streetcars (now with trolley pole) in the Bronx West Farms carhouse. It lasted a few more years in Yonkers:
More at the east end of the Washington Bridge:
Showing the transformation of some of the newest Third Avenue cars from conduit Manhattan cars to pole The Bronx cars, 640 is an example:
Jack May, The Bronx expert, told me the concrete structure is not what I thought it was, this confirmed by a resident Transit Authoritiy expert, and that the location is Bascobal Place on Ogden Avenue, a short distance south of the east end of Washington Bridge, and thus 384 is on the "O" Ogden Avenue, the route that crossed the Harlem River twice, running from 155th Street and Amsterdam Avenue to 181st Street and Broadway via Ogden Avenue in The Bronx..
But here is ex-Manhattan 141 on 138th Street in The Bronx:
Most of the 1936-1937, first mostly-new-material and regenrative-braling, home-built Third Avenue lightweights in the 301-400 series were assigned to Yonkers and Subway - New Rochelle service. Exceptions were 397-400, equipped for conduit and assisting 101-200 on Manhattan routes, 101-200 similar, but built by splicing two single-truck cars together. Also five others, including 374 pictured, were assigned to The Bronx's Ogdan Avenue Line because of its steep grade. When Ogden Avenue went bus, they were to replace 229th St. - Mt. Vernon convertable cars.
Two ex-Manhattan, conduit, Third and Amsterdam Avenue cars, now with poles for operation in The Bronx, at the 161st street Bronx Concourse underpass in late 1947:
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