This afternoon, I remembered that after Grand Central Station was closed, the B&O and C&O began operating their Chicago trains into and out of the North Western Terminal. Is anyone interested in finding out what the routing was? Knowing this may help answer the original question on this thread.
Johnny
Another thing to consider regarding the transfer of cars from any of the four stations east of the Chicago River (Central, Dearborn, LaSalle, Grand Central) to Northwestern Station west of the Chicago River is that the only track crossing the river was the St.Charles Air Line (SCAL). Once SCAL crossed the river on the west side, the Air Line track was elevated, passing over the PRR and CB&Q yards. To my knowledge, there was no spur track off SCAL to ground level at that point. So, that is another reason to conclude that the transfer of cars proceeded west from SCAL to Western Avenue, then north to Kinzie, and back east on the C&NW mainline tracks.
Rich
Alton Junction
The fact that there were tracks along the river at Union Station did not mean that they were used for swapping passenger cars.
Now if the MILW spur to Goose Island crossed the NW tracks at grade at Kinsie (continuing across the river to reach the former NW station north of the loop), AND if there were interchange tracks at that crossing, THEN those tracks along Union station COULD have been used to get cars to the NW. Neither of those spurs exist at present, but were present when AMTRAK came about.
But my maps show no other way than using the St Charles Air line and coming back on the NW. Of course the old Pan Handle used tracks along Western Ave (with a stop at Madison) to get to the ROW the MILW used to reach the north side of Union.
Art
artschlosser Union Station in Chicago did have tracks connecting the south tracks to the north tracks. There were two freight tracks next to the river and one passenger track between the freight tracks and the station. Amtrak routed the Milwaukee to KC train on that track. I have left Chicago for Poughkeepsie NY on this track, so it was also used for 'non-through' traffic.
Union Station in Chicago did have tracks connecting the south tracks to the north tracks. There were two freight tracks next to the river and one passenger track between the freight tracks and the station.
Amtrak routed the Milwaukee to KC train on that track. I have left Chicago for Poughkeepsie NY on this track, so it was also used for 'non-through' traffic.
It is true that Union Station did have tracks running along the river and that the south and north tracks were connected. But, if the NYC passenger cars were routed through that pasenger track, how did those cars reach Northwestern Station? Weren't all of the tracks elevated coming into Northwestern Station from the north? The NYC cars would be moving from south to north on tracks that were at ground level, not elevated.
I have a book titled Railroading in Downtown Chicago 1958-1969. There is a photo of a pair of C&NW GP7's hauling freight cars and moving north on those freight tracks behind Union Station along the river. The caption below the photo reads, "Transfer jobs could bypass Union Station on the east side. Having come north through the 21st Street crossing, this freight haul will pass along the east side of Union Station, then turn west out toward the C&NW's Proviso Yard". So, it is obvious that the C&NW used those freight tracks.
But again, the question is whether other roads like NYC were able to transfer passenger cars from LaSalle Street Station to Northwestern Station using this route.
Unfortunately, a through track at Union Station doesn't help getting a car easily over to the Northwestern Station. MILW tracks don't get close to the NW tracks till Western Ave which is the same place as using the route along the St Charles Airline.
At one time the MILW had a line up along Goose Island but that didn't connect with the NW until way north near Clybourne.
wanswheel It would be neat to find a Trains article, if there is one, about how the cars were transferred.
It would be neat to find a Trains article, if there is one, about how the cars were transferred.
I agree that it would be neat to find an article on how these cars were transferred.
I am no expert on the movement of passenger cars from one railroad to another in Chicago. Far from it. But, I am familiar with the track routes, historically, into Chicago's six passenger stations.
As to the initial question of how sleepers from the NYC were placed on the outbound C&NW trains, this had to be a unique challenge in that the Northwestern Station was the only one of the six downtown Chicago passenger stations without track access from the south. All trains entering Northwestern Station did so from the north, approaching the station from either the north or west.
All of the other five downtown Chicago passenger stations had track access from the south with trains approaching these stations from the south and from the west. The common trackage between these stations was the St. Charles Air Line (SCAL) running on a north-south axis at around 16th Street from the lakefront to west of the Chicago River.
Four of the five stations (Central, Dearborn, LaSalle and Grand Central) were east of the Chicago River. These four stations were located on the south end of downtown Chicago. The fifth station, Union Station, was situated on the west side of downtown Chicago and on the west side of the Chicago River. However, tracks entering Union Station were from the south with the exception of the Milwaukee Road track which entered from the north but still could be reached from the tracks entering from the south.
So, with the exception of Northwestern Station, it was possible for any train using any of the other five downtown Chicago passenger stations to access trackage to one another's station. However, since Northwestern Station had no access from the south, moving cars from any of the other five stations to Northwestern Station had to be done using a more circuitous route, as described earlier in this thread.
What I have always found interesting about Northwestern Station is that it could have provided a track link from the south via Union Station which was only a couple of blocks south of Northwestern Station. Situated on the west side of the Chicago River, just like Union Station, the tracks entering Union Station from the south could have continued one for two more blocks to link up with the C&NW tracks at Northwestern Station. But, at least to my knowledge, there never was such a link; thus, the circuitous route.
It would be neat to find a Trains article, if there is one, about how the cars were transferred. Here's an article from Central Headlight, April 1946.
First Coast-to-Coast Service by the New York Central
Two Routes to Los Angeles and Two More to San Francisco Receive Warm Public Welcome
The first through daily coast-to-coast railway passenger service between New York and Los Angeles and New York and San Francisco was started Sunday, March 31, by the New York Central and several western railways. This is the first regular daily standard Pullman sleeping car service on the United States railroads that permits trans-continental travel without change of cars.
Two routes to Los Angeles have been established. The first, utilizing the Central's famous 20th Century Limited in conjunction with the Santa Fe's Chief, was announced March 20, by G. Metzman, President, New York Central System, and Fred G. Gurley, President, Santa Fe System. A few days later, announcement of an alternative service, utilizing the New York Central's Iroquois and the Los Angeles Limited was made. The Iroquois also carries a car for San Francisco.
Still later another service, each way between New York and San Francisco, on alternate days, using the Central's Commodore Vanderbilt and the Exposition Flyer, over the Burlington, Denver & Rio Grande Western and the Western Pacific Route, was placed in operation. This service out of Grand Central Terminal, New York, started April 4 .
On the first day of the new service, the 20th Century Limited, leaving New York at 5:30 P. M. included an all-room sleeping car which, upon arrival of train at LaSalle Street Station, Chicago, at 9:30 the following morning was delivered to the Dearborn Station, where it was attached to the Santa Fe Chief, leaving Chicago at 12:01 P. M. and arriving Los Angeles 11:50 A. M. on Wednesday, April 3. Eastbound the Santa Fe Chief, leaving Los Angeles Saturday, March 30, at 12:01 P. M., similarly included an all-room sleeping car scheduled to arrive Grand Central Terminal, New York at 9:30 A. M., on Tuesday, April 2, on the Century.
The through service provided by these world famous streamliners, the only daily coast-to-coast premium trains in the country, is in the most modern type sleeping cars. Each car has bedrooms, compartments and drawing rooms.
The two railroad executives said that this initial service had been determined upon only after long consideration and careful study by the passenger traffic managers of the two lines. It is intended that it will be expanded as required to meet the demands of the traffic.
Early Sellout of Space
F. H. Baird, General Passenger Traffic Manager, reported that demand for the new Century-Chief transcontinental service for the first trip exceeded capacity, the available accommodations being sold within a few hours of the announcement.
On the first Century coast-to-coast car leaving New York was Miss Una O'Hara, a smartly uniformed New York Central passenger representative who carried a message from Mayor William O'Dwyer of New York to Mayor Fletcher Bowron of Los Angeles. In the message Mayor O'Dwyer extended greetings to his fellow mayor and to the citizens of Los Angeles and commended the new service as "another progressive phase of modern railroading.
A similar message from Mayor Bowron to Mayor O'Dwyer arrived on the Century incoming transcontinental car April 2.
One service to and from San Francisco is made in the Iroquois and the Overland Limited, which is operated over the Chicago & North Western-Union Pacific-Southern Pacific Route. Between Chicago and Los Angeles the "Los Angeles Limited runs over the Chicago & North Western-Union Pacific Route.
The Iroquois, leaving New York at 11:30 P.M., included two through sleeping cars for this service. On arrival at Chicago at 4:20 P. M. the following day one of these cars transferred to the Overland Limited and the other to the Los Angeles Limited, both leaving Chicago at 8:15 P. M., reaching respectively San Francisco at 9:20 A..M. and Los Angeles at 8:30 A. M. the fourth day.
East-bound service is o p e r a t ed over the same routes between the west coast and Chicago, leaving Los Angeles 5:30 P. M. and San Francisco 7 P. M. arriving in Chicago at 8:30 A. M., transferring there to New York Central's Fifth Avenue Special, leaving at 10:50 A. M. and arriving in New York 7:45 A. M.
Additional daily sleeping car service between New York and San Francisco, in conjunction with the Exposition Flyer, operated over the Burlington, Denver & Rio Grande Western and the Western Pacific route, was announced by the New York Central and Pennsylvania railroads.
Passengers using this new transcontinental route leave New York on alternate days on the New York Central or Pennsylvania, thereafter going west from Chicago over the Burlington, Denver & Rio Grande Western and Western Pacific route. Between New York and Chicago, each way, the Commodore Vanderbilt on the New York Central and the General on the Pennsylvania are used for this service.
The first car on this new route left San Francisco on the Exposition Flyer, Sunday, March 31, at 4 P.M., arriving in New York at 9:30 Thursday morning, April 4, on the Commodore Vanderbilt.
The first car leaving New York City departed on the General at 4:05 P.M., April 3, arriving in San Francisco on the Exposition Flyer at 9:50 A.M., April 7.
The second car from New York left Grand Central Terminal on the Commodore Vanderbilt at 4:15 p.m., April 4. Thereafter, the service was alternated in this way between the General and the Commodore Vanderbilt.
The westbound Exposition Flyer leaves Chicago at 12:35 Noon and the twin eastbound train arrives at 11:55 A.M., daily.
Well, I believe that's it..then and thanks, Rich.
However, it would seem that all the stars and planets would have to line up just-so that connecting sleeper wouldn't be delivered late.
By the way, the referenced connection was between the Water Level Limited and the Los Angeles Limited.
I don't have an answer to that question, but it is a very good one.
I can tell you that there was a connecting track at 16th Street to the St. Charles Air Line from the Rock Island/NYC tracks leading out of LaSalle Street Station. From there, the C&NW ran a track west to Western Avenue which then turned north and ran to the main line C&NW tracks at Kinzie Street where a wye track joined the C&NW main line. That circuitous route was undoubtedly the way that it was done.
Somebody, in another forum platform, asked a question about the movement of through passenger equipment between the various stations in Chicago. In particular they were curious about how sleepers from the NYC were placed on the outbound C&NW trains.
That's a good one since the route from LaSalle Street to Madison Street had to be pretty creative.
Anyone?
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