daveklepperI don't have a PRR employees timetable, but I would bet than one does show freight speeds of 60mph behind steam. Not at all unusual. The N&W ran coal trains at 70mph behind class A 2-6-6-4's. The ACL and Seabord ran fruit blocks of regular wood steel-framed refers behind passenger power (Pacifics, usually) at 70mph. The UP and AT&SF 4-8-4's were designed specifically for such high-speed freight service.
Of course, as everyone knows steam freights all over the country were actually running 120 mph, at the very least-- but speed limits in the timetables were lower.
AgentKid DeggestyI wonder: were engineers allowed to run as fast ast they wished? The CPR Historical Association website has ETT's from various times throughout the 20th Century, and it is interesting to look at the evolution of how speed limits were listed. In the Special Instructions in the back of each book there were maximum speeds listed for each class of engine, G, P, T, etc. Then with each subdivision listing there were Permanent Slow Orders written as "no train permitted between Mile xx.x and Mile yy.y in less than a minutes and b seconds. At the end of the steam era the listing by class designation changed to maximum MPH for each subdivision. Permanent Slow Orders changed to MPH as well, but it was not an across the board thing. In the same ETT you would see slow orders listed in both the not less than a minutes and b seconds, and MPH. It seems that straight MPH wasn't used until the early sixties. It is my understanding that no CPR steam engines had speedometers. Bruce
DeggestyI wonder: were engineers allowed to run as fast ast they wished?
The CPR Historical Association website has ETT's from various times throughout the 20th Century, and it is interesting to look at the evolution of how speed limits were listed.
In the Special Instructions in the back of each book there were maximum speeds listed for each class of engine, G, P, T, etc. Then with each subdivision listing there were Permanent Slow Orders written as "no train permitted between Mile xx.x and Mile yy.y in less than a minutes and b seconds.
At the end of the steam era the listing by class designation changed to maximum MPH for each subdivision. Permanent Slow Orders changed to MPH as well, but it was not an across the board thing. In the same ETT you would see slow orders listed in both the not less than a minutes and b seconds, and MPH. It seems that straight MPH wasn't used until the early sixties.
It is my understanding that no CPR steam engines had speedometers.
Bruce
Yes that is interesting, and makes sense....A term like "miles per hour" would not have been in the general vocabulary of people in the early 1900's.
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
I don't have a PRR employees timetable, but I would bet than one does show freight speeds of 60mph behind steam. Not at all unusual. The N&W ran coal trains at 70mph behind class A 2-6-6-4's. The ACL and Seabord ran fruit blocks of regular wood steel-framed refers behind passenger power (Pacifics, usually) at 70mph. The UP and AT&SF 4-8-4's were designed specifically for such high-speed freight service.
I have several Southern TT's from the thirties--which list the minimum time allowed between stations. Except for the Attlanta Terminal TT, which shows minimum times for passenger trains only, they show the times for freight and passenger trains. The special instructions list reduced speed limits for various sections, but there is no overall speed limit shown for any line in the TT's.
I also have a copy of Washington Division TT dated October 2, 1927; it does not show minimum times nor does it list maximum speeds allowed except in the instruction concerning reduced speeds. I wonder: were engineers allowed to run as fast ast they wished?
Johnny
daveklepperThere were locations where PRR allowed 60mph on freight, even higher in a few locatons in electrified territory. Chicago - Fort Wayne had stretches of 60 mph frieght operation.
I believe that the Norfolk and Western 611 had / has a speedometer.
John Timm
I remember reading somewhere an old engineer telling a rookie fireman that if you can see the siderods going up and down, you're not going too fast. If they're just sort of "vibrating" in the middle, you might want to watch for any curves ahead as you're going very fast and might need to slow down.
Some engines did have speedometers, it just wasn't required or universal. Some railroads had something that could make a sort of graph of the speed the engine travelled, they would be reviewed after the run to see if the engineer was speeding.
Thanks Dave, that was helpful.
Omitting them still seems strange to me though; a speedometer seems like a simple and inexpensive addition.
There were locations where PRR allowed 60mph on freight, even higher in a few locatons in electrified territory. Chicago - Fort Wayne had stretches of 60 mph frieght operation.
Most steam locomotives did not have speedometers, but engineers would know the speed by the sound which would be different for locomotives with differen driver diameter. A rookey fireman could learn to judge speed by timing mileposts.
At the trolley musuem where I ran cars, there were speed restrictions and one learned to judge speed just by watching the track ahead. It is simply a learned skill. Still no speedometers on any of the cars there.
Governors on steam locomotives? Sounds unlikely, doesn't it?
Offhand I'm guessing steam-powered PRR freights weren't supposed to do even 60 mph. More likely 50.
I read somewhere that the PRR did not install speedometers in thier steam locomotives. If so, what was the reasoning behind it? Was this common on other railroads? If there was no speedometer I'm assuming the engineer determined his speed with a stopwatch between mileposts, correct?
I also read that PRR maximum freight speed was 60 mph; did locomotives have govenors to keep them below this speed, or was it up to the engineer?
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