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Panama Limited - What was the journey like in the 1930s?

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Posted by icrr2613 on Thursday, May 7, 2009 1:18 AM

Deggesty

As to the crossing of the Ohio at Cairo, a new line, which connected the IC with a system of roads that went to New Orleans, was completed in 1873. Before this new line was built, the IC had a connection with the Mobile and Ohio Railroad which used a carferry between Columbus, Kentucky, and Cairo. The M&O carried traffic between Coulumbus and Jackson, Tennessee, where it connected with a system of roads that led down to New Orleans. In 1874, the IC took control of these other roads and, eventually, they were merged into the IC. Even then, there could be no through service between Chicago and New Orleans because the track south of Cairo was five foot gauge (in keeping with southern practice). On July 29, 1881, all five foot gauge track in the South was changed to standard (four feet, eight and a half inches) gauge.

The M&O did ferry cars across the Mississippi River between Columbus, KY, and Cairo, IL (and across to Bird's Point, MO).  This service lasted from the 1850's until the M&O extended its line from Columbus to East Cairo, KY, which opened on Nov. 1, 1881.  At that point the Columbus ferry service was abandoned. 

 

In late 1873 the Mississippi Central (not to be confused with the MC that was taken over by the IC in 1967) completed its line to Filmore, KY, which is across the Ohio River from Cairo, IL.  At that point the IC began ferrying cars across the river on its own ferry boat.  On the Kentucky side of the river there was a steam powered winch, which raised each car so that the trucks underneath could be swapped out.  This allowed cars to run through from Chicago to New Orleans.  Of course, this was a rather slow process, which was eliminated when the "Southern Lines" were changed to standard gauge.

 Incidentally, after IC opened its Cairo bridge in 1889, the M&O continued to use its East Cairo-Cairo ferry until 1899, when it was granted trackage rights across the bridge.  When that happened, IC bought the M&O ferry "W.B. Duncan" and then moves it to IC's Ohio River ferry service between Paducah, KY, and Brookport, IL.  The "Duncan" is also known to have briefly served the Helena-East Helena ferry, and perhaps at Henderson, KY.

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, May 4, 2009 9:13 PM

CSumption

In some of the reading I've done, they talk about the Pullman Porters responding to a call bell. They would apparently see which passenger had rung their bell by looking at an annunciator panel. Any idea what this annunciator panel would look like? And where would it be located on the train?

The annunciator panel is located on a wall of the aisle in the car. It looks like a metal panel with rectangular openings that have lights behind them--each room, section, restroom, and shower room (on VIA's sleepers built by Budd) has a light which is lit when the knob in the room is pulled out or the button in the room is pressed. The current panels also have an indication for the event that someone in the other car under the attendant's care needs service. You will find these in Amtrak's sleepers and in the old cars that VIA uses. Old lounge cars and parlor cars also had buttons to be used for summoning the porter. I do not know if there was a panel that showed the location of the button or not; the attendant may have simply looked to see who wished service. The button in the shower dressing room on VIA sleepers is a large red knob; I stumbled against one about three and a half weeks ago, and quickly pulled it back out when I realized what I had done; I did not need assistance (the dressing room door lock could be opened from the aisle with the use of a screwdriver). I do not remember seeing a button in a VIA Renaissance sleeper room, though there probably is one. The call system in the Viewliner sleeper we occupied between Washington and Chicago a week and a half ago did not work. It was easy to accidently press the button in the older cars; it takes a positive effort to pull the knob found in the Superliner cars.

Johnny

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Posted by CSumption on Monday, May 4, 2009 7:27 PM

In some of the reading I've done, they talk about the Pullman Porters responding to a call bell. They would apparently see which passenger had rung their bell by looking at an annunciator panel. Any idea what this annunciator panel would look like? And where would it be located on the train?

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, May 4, 2009 4:38 AM

The only segregation I recall the Pullman company practicing was segregation of sections.   The would not allow one white and one black to share one section and tried to avoid having blacks in a section across from whites, doing this by assinging blocs of numbers in cars.   In private rooms, if a black could afford a private room, he could be in the same car as whites, because the privacy of the room provided segregation.  The first lightweight diners for the still all-Pullman Panama had the usual Jim Crow glass separating without door the two tables at the end of the car nearest the kitchen, and when blacks rode the train, that is where they would be served in the diner, but without black patronage, the two tables would be available for general use.

 

During the day of Apartheteid in South Africa, the Blue Train was operated similarly.   Otherwise, pretty much separate trains!

 

 

And when the trolleybuses were still running in Johannesburg, I was told I could not ride them because they were only for blacks, and there were only diesel buses for whites.

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Posted by AgentKid on Friday, May 1, 2009 9:12 PM

wjstix
One thing to consider when imagining the trip is that in 1930 segregation laws still existed.

I recall seeing or reading somewhere that IC was one of the first US railroads to allow blacks to move up from fireman to engineer. Apparently this seemed to work OK, except through Kankakee Ill. If the locals found out that a black engineer was working with a white fireman with less seniority, they would start shooting at the cab! The engine crews' soon learned that the black crewman had to be sitting on the left side of the cab when they went through that town.

AgentKid

 

So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.

"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere"  CP Rail Public Timetable

"O. S. Irricana"

. . . __ . ______

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 3:42 PM

The full name of the "Guide" was The Official Guide of the Railways and Steam Navigation Lines of the United States Porto Rico Canada, Mexico and Cuba. It was published monthly and was of great value to railroad officials, passenger and freight agents, and the traveling public. As stix said, it contained almost all the information anyone concerned with rail transportation needed (in 1955, an issue contained more than 1500 pages). From time to time, back copies are republished (the ads are usually in Trains Magazine).

As to the crossing of the Ohio at Cairo, a new line, which connected the IC with a system of roads that went to New Orleans, was completed in 1873. Before this new line was built, the IC had a connection with the Mobile and Ohio Railroad which used a carferry between Columbus, Kentucky, and Cairo. The M&O carried traffic between Coulumbus and Jackson, Tennessee, where it connected with a system of roads that led down to New Orleans. In 1874, the IC took control of these other roads and, eventually, they were merged into the IC. Even then, there could be no through service between Chicago and New Orleans because the track south of Cairo was five foot gauge (in keeping with southern practice). On July 29, 1881, all five foot gauge track in the South was changed to standard (four feet, eight and a half inches) gauge.

Wikipedia tells us: The Panama Limited was inaugurated February 4, 1911, and was operated by the IC until Amtrak came into operation. Also, the train was temporarily discontinued from 1932 to 1935 because of low ridership. The service was reinstituted on December 2, 1935, on an eighteen hour schedule.

Johnny

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Posted by wjstix on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 1:37 PM

The Official Guide was a big book printed regularly (monthly??) that listed all US railroads and connections, their passenger trains, number of locomotives, cars, employees etc. Old ones turn up from time to time on ebay or flea markets. I think a few have been reissued over the years.

If there was a time when passengers had to ferry at Cairo IL it must have been back before the Civil War. 

One thing to consider when imagining the trip is that in 1930 segregation laws still existed. Once the train coming from Chicago got into the South it would have to have either segregated cars with dividers, or separate "Jim Crow" cars for black passengers to ride in.  If you were white the only blacks you'd probably see would be a Pullman porter or a steward in the dining car.

Stix
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Posted by CSumption on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 12:58 PM

Thanks so much for your help. What are the "Official Guides" of the period and where would I be able to find them?

Do you know what happened when the train got to Cairo?  It sounds like in the early days the passengers had to cross the river on a ferry. Was this still the case in the late 30s?

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, April 28, 2009 9:18 PM

Welcome to the Trains forums. Ask any question you have, and share information you have on any rail-related topic, and stop in at the Flat Wheel Cafe and Trackside Lounge.

I can't give you any great detail about the Panama Limited of the thirties beyond what two Official Guides of the period show. Other posters may well have more information, especially as to where to find accounts of riding this great train in that period.

In January of 1930, the Panama Limited was all-Pullman, and offered sections, compartments, and drawing rooms. "Ladies maid, also bath, barber and valet service" (not found on every train) were provided. An extra fare was charged. Besides the cars that were sleeper space only, it carried an observation car which had private rooms, a diner, and a buffet car.

It was scheduled to leave both Chicago and New Orleans at 12:30 p. m., and arrive at 9:30 a. m. Southbound, you could expect it to be dark by the time you reached Centralia, and you might see daylight from McComb on in to New Orleans. Northbound, you could expect the sun to set north of Canton, and to rise north of Champaign. Of course, in the summer you would have more daylight than in the winter. You would certainly see the west shore of Lake Pontchartrain and the comparatively flat land between there and New Orleans, and the hills and farming country north of Centralia.

Chicago to New Orleans was 921 miles, so the average speed was not quite forty-four miles an hour. Sixty miles an hour may have been the fastest it went.

In November of 1937, its services were not quite as posh, still all-Pullman with extra fare, of course, but with only bath and valet service shown, and a club car instead of a buffet car. The schedule was a little faster, leaving at 1:00 p. m., and arriving at 9:00 a. m., with an average speed of forty-five and a half miles per hour.

Johnny

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Panama Limited - What was the journey like in the 1930s?
Posted by CSumption on Tuesday, April 28, 2009 7:21 PM

I'm looking for information about the Panama Limited in the 1930s. What was the journey like? How fast did the train go? What would a passenger see out the window at various places along the way? Any personal experiences you're willing to share would be most welcome. And if you can recommend any good books or websites, I'd really appreciate that too.

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