We , that is Larry Goolsby..the author of two books on ACL & SAL passenger service (as well as the history of the AB&C) and myself find that we are also caught short on this.
We'll collectively weigh in with: The Southland.
Dixie Limited?
http://www.railroadheritage.org/ImageStorage/Img--00002299.jpg
http://blog.modernmechanix.com/mags/qf/c/ModernMechanix/3-1938/med_milk_fuel.jpg
Excerpt from Railway Age Gazette, Nov. 22, 1912
The Chicago & Eastern Illinois, in connection with the Louisville & Nashville, Nashville Chattanooga & St. Louis, Western & Atlantic, Central of Georgia, Georgia Southern & Florida, Atlantic Coast and Florida East Coast, will about December 15 put on a train between Chicago and Florida, to be known as the Dixie de Luxe. The train will be made up wholly of Pullman cars through from Chicago to Palm Beach, via Evansville, Chattanooga, Atlanta and Jacksonville. It will leave Chicago about 10:30 a.m. daily, arriving at Jacksonville the next evening, and at Palm Beach the following morning.
FlyingCrow We , that is Larry Goolsby..the author of two books on ACL & SAL passenger service (as well as the history of the AB&C) and myself find that we are also caught short on this. We'll collectively weigh in with: The Southland.
nope....
wanswheel Dixie Limited? http://www.railroadheritage.org/ImageStorage/Img--00002299.jpg http://blog.modernmechanix.com/mags/qf/c/ModernMechanix/3-1938/med_milk_fuel.jpg Excerpt from Railway Age Gazette, Nov. 22, 1912 The Chicago & Eastern Illinois, in connection with the Louisville & Nashville, Nashville Chattanooga & St. Louis, Western & Atlantic, Central of Georgia, Georgia Southern & Florida, Atlantic Coast and Florida East Coast, will about December 15 put on a train between Chicago and Florida, to be known as the Dixie de Luxe. The train will be made up wholly of Pullman cars through from Chicago to Palm Beach, via Evansville, Chattanooga, Atlanta and Jacksonville. It will leave Chicago about 10:30 a.m. daily, arriving at Jacksonville the next evening, and at Palm Beach the following morning.
Yes.....it was the Dixie Limited
I came across the Dixie deLuxe name in the editorial section of the December, 1912 issue of the Official Guide. But, the February 1913 Official Guide shows this service as the Dixie Limited. Why the change of name I do not know. Also, the Dixie Limited is shown only as a Chicago-Jacksonville train with thru cars operating on connecting trains of the FEC.
In the decade before WWI, the "deLuxe" phenomenon in passenger train nomenclature was in its height. The industry, in trying to get the premium dollar for premium dollar service, provided such services for a small clientele who demanded a high level of service and luxury and was willing to pay for it. Other trains that were offered and branded to this elite clientele include:
- Santa Fe deLuxe
- Shasta Limited deLuxe, Shasta Limited Train deLuxe
- Soo Pacific Train deLuxe
- Soo-Spokane-Portland Train deLuxe
- Spokane-Portland Train deLuxe
The deLuxe phenomenon disappeared during the nationwide rationalization of passenger service during WWI, when such luxury services were deemed unnecessary during wartime conditions.
The deLuxe moniker made a brief reappearance in the late 1920's-early 1930's but only on some trains that were associated with the New York Central -
- Day Coach deLuxe
- De Luxe Special
- Niagara Falls De Luxe Special
- Royal Palm deLuxe
But by this time the term "deLuxe" became somewhat of anachronism in relation to travel since there were more "modern" ways of signifying exclusive luxury - namely giving a train "Limited" status or giving a train a unique name and then building a reputation behind it - such as the Chief.
Wanswheel, hats off to you and the floor is yours for the next question.
What train did Roger Bresnahan ride on July 11, 1911?
Mike
Federal Express, it was involved in a wreck that day.
K4sPRR, yes your turn.
Ok, here's the next one. This particular passenger train was a radio star throughout the depression years and into WWII, the same train inspired Hank Williams Sr (Jr. wasn't around yet) to write a lyric in its honor..."a midnight train is whining low". Name the train, city and radio station that broadcast live its passing by a local tower.
WSM in Nashville, Tennessee, broadcast the passing of the L&N's southbound Pan American past its radio tower for many years. Of course, it passed long before midnight since it was by then south of Birmingham.
Johnny
Congratulations, you are correct...and quick with the response! The midnight passing that Hank refered to in the lyric was when it bopped through his hometown of Georgiana Alabama.
Next one is yours.
Pan American by Hank Williams, audio
http://www.jazz-on-line.com/a/rama/MGM48S22.ram
In the Winter 1950 Season, what was distinctive about the Florida Special, the Vacationer, and the West Coast Champion?
First time they were equipped with all lightweight Pullmans.
FlyingCrow First time they were equipped with all lightweight Pullmans.
Actually, the three shared one distinctive characteristic, and each train also was unique.
ACL hosting bingo game in the lounge car with prize for the winner.
daveklepper ACL hosting bingo game in the lounge car with prize for the winner.
Hint: consider what area each train served.
Similiarity: They all needed trackage rights on some other RR (SAL, FEC) to get where they were going.
Distinction: They all had different destination cities.
al-in-chgo Similiarity: They all needed trackage rights on some other RR (SAL, FEC) to get where they were going. Distinction: They all had different destination cities.
The distinctions were between these three and all other ACL trains into Florida, as well as between them and the SAL trains.
Unlike the SAL thru trains and most other ACL NE-FL trains, these were defined as separate trainsets (despite having conventional equipment) and did not lease rolling stock from other carriers like UP during the 'rush' winter season (which was off season for some of the western lines); nor did it routinely lend to, or borrow from, rolling stock from other varnish within the ACL network.
That makes them all of a kind, but different from other ACL trains as well as SAL's "friendly competition."
al-in-chgo Unlike the SAL thru trains and most other ACL NE-FL trains, these were defined as separate trainsets (despite having conventional equipment) and did not lease rolling stock from other carriers like UP during the 'rush' winter season (which was off season for some of the western lines); nor did it routinely lend to, or borrow from, rolling stock from other varnish within the ACL network. That makes them all of a kind, but different from other ACL trains as well as SAL's "friendly competition."
As I look at the listing of the cars bought by ACL, FEC, RF&P and PRR in late 1949-early 1950 and the the listing of the cars bought earlier, it is possible that each train had specific cars assigned to it (this is certainly true for one of the Pullman floor plans operated on the Florida Special). This should give at least a hint as to the common distinction of the three trains.
That season, the Orange Blossom Special was all heavyweight except for two Pullman lines, and the sleepers carried on both the Silver Meteor and the Silver Star were also a mixture.
How did these trains differ from the Seaboard New York-Florida trains? This is what the Coast Line was emphasizing in its representation in the Guide.
Well, an all-ACL routing from Richmond south to Jacksonville FL (if not further) would have involved fewer miles (and quite possibly better track, or at least more double-track) than SAL, which swung way to the west in the Carolinas. Not only were there fewer track miles but average speed might well have been superior, or at worst no less. Therefore, those hours saved could show up in publicity or advertising copy as "only ___ hours Penn Station to Miami" (for example). Speed -- quickest connections to FL.
More of a WAG: These trains had different destinations, and it is correct RR nomenclature to refer to them as "three trains," but for economy of operation at some point did they run combined? (I.e., nos whatever, whatever and whatever were in the same string of cars, same HEP, joined together, like El Capitan/Super Chief were in ATSF's pre-Amtrak years (summer excepted). After all, the ACL main, along with being an efficient route NE to FL, went through no big cities enroute -- closest match I can think of is Savannah GA or maybe Charleston SC -- but both of those would have been served in the wee small hours, especially SB, and there would have been little if any practical drawbacks, as any entraining passengers could be put on one coach near one sleeper, obviating any particular need for multi-stops at one platform.
Now here's another WAG that might well invalidate the first: Is it possible that the ACL's rolling stock for these three trains was "postwar" enough that all 3 trains had rounded rear-end obs. cars (like SAL's Silver Star) (pre-US entry into World War Two IIRC; or CP's The Canadian (1955).) Though a headache in terms of observations of operations were kind of a headache but did make for prettier trains, as witness The Canadian (CP) which didn't go into service until 1955, but of course American prototypes existed pre-US entry into World War Two. I think SAL's Silver Meteor was in that class.
Sorry for the habitual verbosity, Johnny -- but if I didnt strike water maybe I helped move the topic forward a little. - al smalling -- aka 'al-in-chgo' .
Ah, but one of them had no Pullmans.
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Actually all 3 did have sleepers, I have 1950 tt right in front of me (well, a scan provided by Larry Goolsby) BUT I was wrong about their being all lightweights. Goolsby (who wrote the BOOK) and I are totally be-funkled about this and cannot imagine what the answer could be. We don't seem to have it.
FlyingCrow Ah, but one of them had no Pullmans. Actually, the three shared one distinctive characteristic, and each train also was unique.
Bob, I do not know why, when I named the three trains, I named the Vacationer when the ACL proclaimed that the East Coast Champion, as well as the Florida Special and the West Coast Champion, was distinctive.. I am sorry to have led anyone astray. As you say, the Vacationer had sleepers--and they, with one possible exception, were not lightweights.
Deggesty In the Winter 1950 Season, what was distinctive about the Florida Special, the Vacationer, and the West Coast Champion?
The Florida Special was the only New York-Miami lightweight all-Pullman train.
The Vacationer was the only coach and Pullman New York-Miami train.
The East Coast Champion was the only all-Coach New York-Miami train.
The West Coast Champion was the only train running exclusively between New York and the West Coast of Florida.
I going to guess the one thing that tied all three trains is that they all ran on the only double-tracked line to Florida.
The SAL at this time was running the Silver Meteor and Silver Star to both coasts of Florida and the Orange Blossom Special was still a heavyweight all-Pullman train.
WAG: Air Conditioning?
Of course it could be a fruit drink and or fruit.
Thx IGN
ZephyrOverland Deggesty: In the Winter 1950 Season, what was distinctive about the Florida Special, the Vacationer, and the West Coast Champion? The Florida Special was the only New York-Miami lightweight all-Pullman train. The Vacationer was the only coach and Pullman New York-Miami train. The East Coast Champion was the only all-Coach New York-Miami train. The West Coast Champion was the only train running exclusively between New York and the West Coast of Florida. I going to guess the one thing that tied all three trains is that they all ran on the only double-tracked line to Florida. The SAL at this time was running the Silver Meteor and Silver Star to both coasts of Florida and the Orange Blossom Special was still a heavyweight all-Pullman train.
Deggesty: In the Winter 1950 Season, what was distinctive about the Florida Special, the Vacationer, and the West Coast Champion?
As you noted, the Florida "Silver Fleet" served both coasts--and each train had a mixture of heavyweight and lightweight sleepers.
As to airconditioning, by this time the regularly assigned equipment almost all mainline passenger trains was air conditioned, and some railroads (such as SAL) did not bother to mention it.
If I have another opportunity to pose a question, I hope that a "senior moment" does not occur between my reading and my writing.
Congrats to ZO....all of us over at the ACL & SAL HS are feeling a bit dumb not catching the intent of the question.
Interesting factoid.....despite the fact that steam had been long long gone from the property, the SAL STILL advertised its trains as "diesel powered" in 1964.
A good question and a worthwhile discussion. I should have remembered the facts and done the right analysis. Bingo was a regular on ACL lounge cars but I never ran into it on the Seaboard. Anyone else remember the ACL bingo lounge car games?
Zo, let us have the next question, please!
OK, here's the question.....
In 1935, the UP established the Challenger, a train that considered innovative because of the accommodations and services it offered. A number of years later, the UP established another train with its name reflecting another travel innovation. Give the name the train as it was originally named, the name at the end of its career, the endpoints, and what was the travel innovation the train was highlighting?
Hint: it wasn't the Aerotrain
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