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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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RME
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Posted by RME on Thursday, April 27, 2017 9:13 AM

Looks to me as if there might be arrangements to implement 'train air' braking on the units when dead-in-train, independent (pun recognized but not intended) of any Baldwin MU system incompatible with the binary eight-notch Woodward governor control system.  Is there a technical reference on how this would be best done?

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, April 27, 2017 11:32 AM

The SD9 in the upper photo is missing some stuff that is clearly on the same SD9 in the lower photo.  There's a reason there is only one air hose in the top photo.  There's a change in the handrail on the end as well.

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, April 29, 2017 5:21 PM

rcdrye
Here are before and after pictures (and it's not paint) of SD9 2381.Soo Line 2381 before and after 

Look on either side of the pilot.  The new pieces were added shortly after the merger.

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Posted by SD70M-2Dude on Saturday, April 29, 2017 10:23 PM

Ok I'll bite since no one else seems willing to, MU connections (3/4/5 hoses + 24 pin jumper and handrail opening)?

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

RME
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Posted by RME on Sunday, April 30, 2017 8:26 AM

SD70M-2Dude
Ok I'll bite since no one else seems willing to, MU connections (3/4/5 hoses + 24 pin jumper and handrail opening)?

That was the obvious thing at the beginning ... but it wouldn't explain the Baldwins, which IIRC were air-throttle equipped (there were a few with 'compatible' control, but not many)

I suggested just the hoses (to get the brakes to work as if the units were MUed without the throttle control) but that wasn't it, either.

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, April 30, 2017 9:20 AM

SD70M-2 Dude has the answer.

Soo Line and WC had MU connections (rear only) on all of their F3A/F7A/FP7A and "road freight" Alco FA-1 units.  The single F3B and the 10 F7Bs (6 pass, 4 frt) were the only units of any make with MU on both ends.  WC also had three EMD switchers with rear-end ony MU and 16 point throttles that would only MU with each other.

DSS&A had cab-end MU on its BLW DRS-6-6-1500s and both-end MU on the ex-BLH demonstrator AS616.  All but one of DSS&A's RS-1s had MU, though two came from Alco without it.

Adding MU to the GP7s and SD9 was enormously cost-effective, allowing the closing of a remote shop just for the GP7s.  None of Soo or WCs Alco or Baldwin Road Switchers of any model got MU.

The DSS&A AS616 was the only unit on any of the three that had dynamic brakes.  Soo and WC's ex-demo FP7s had it removed before entering Soo service.

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Posted by NP Eddie on Sunday, April 30, 2017 10:02 AM

Rob and All:

Your response was very informational. I had a previous topic on the SOO regarding their locomotives and DB's. The SOO did not need DB's so their locomotives were ordered without them. Even the GE's did not have them.

Ed Burns

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, April 30, 2017 1:32 PM

Other than the ex-DSS&A AS616, the first Soo units with DBs came with the purchase of the Milwaukee.  GP9 2554, rebuilt after a wreck with a carbody from an SP GP35, had the blister but it didn't do anything.

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Posted by SD70M-2Dude on Sunday, April 30, 2017 5:49 PM

Most of CN and CP's rebuilt GP9/7s also retained the blister, although the grilles and fan hatch were plated over.

Anyway back to streamliners, in the late 1940s a railroad ordered a series of distinctive cars unique to that railroad as part of a re-launching of one of their trains.  Never financially successful, the train was cancelled well before the creation of Amtrak.  Despite their distinctiveness, the railroad now had no use for these cars so it sold them to another system which was far more interested in passenger traffic.  There they continued in operation until a government order forced their withdrawl.  Name the two railroads and the car type.  And although it happened within the past 50 years I would also like the reason behind the order that forced the cars' final withdrawl.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, May 1, 2017 12:37 PM

That must be the Milwaukee Road skytop lounges and sleepers, built 1947-48 for the new Olympian Hiawatha. The train was discontinued in 1961 and the cars were later sold to Canadian National, who was in a full blown revitalization attempt of passenger service. I believe they went on CN's train the  "Ocean". 

They had to be pulled due to government regulations requiring a "back door", a secondary means of egress. 

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, May 1, 2017 12:57 PM

The remaining intact(-ish) Skytop car Coffee Creek seems to be in Iowa Pacific's possession. Two of the Rapids cars are intact, with Cedar Rapids belonging to the Friends of the 261 group.

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Posted by SD70M-2Dude on Monday, May 1, 2017 5:27 PM

The skytops were also briefly used on #5 & #6, the (unofficially named) "Rupert Rocket" between Jasper and Prince George/Prince Rupert (for a time the full train only went as far as P.G. and through passengers changed to an RDC).  I never have understood why CN didn't just add a rear door similar to what CP's Budd-built "Park" cars have, but maybe they thought it wasn't worth keeping specialized round-ended observation cars in service, with the VIA takeover of passenger service on the horizon by then.   

The next question belongs to you Miningman.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, May 1, 2017 9:05 PM

Well ok, was not really prepared to ask a question but I can throw a softball out there. 

What the heck is going on in this picture? We are in Montreal, St. Luc Yard, 1966.

Eh?

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, May 2, 2017 6:46 AM

Nothing strange about it at all.  UP taking delivery of C630s from Alco, D&H moving them from Schenectady to Montreal, CP delivering them to UP in Kingsgate, Idaho.  Probably tax advantages compared to receiving them in other states.

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, May 2, 2017 9:08 AM

Sorry rcdrye..incorrect on both. Nice try though.

The C630 is right however. 

Here is another clue.

 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, May 2, 2017 10:18 AM

Now that we can see the dynamometer car, I would suggest that the C630's were leased to MLW for demonstration service on CP.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, May 2, 2017 12:09 PM

Nice shot of the NYC "Drop tank" RS3, the Alco equivalent of the "Torpedo Boat" GP7/GP9.  NYC's attempt to get a little more range out of passenger RS3s by using a larger fuel tank and relocating one of the air reservoirs.  You can see the plumbing for the "Drop Tank" on the 5332 as well.

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, May 2, 2017 5:32 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH- That's half the answer but you are on the right track..expand that a bit as the units went somewhere else still shortly after this..and it resulted in orders! and the D&H units? Maybe not fair to ask as too specific an answer, as in how could you find out or know?  but it is a very simple answer. 

Sorry for the delay in answering. Busy day at work, up to our necks in Mineralogy right now and had 4 high school tours come through on top of it all.

Kids, rocks, microscopes, hand len's and samples everywhere. 

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, May 2, 2017 9:52 PM

rcdrye- Thanks for pointing out the Drop tank on the NYC RS3's. That was a bonus in the picture that came along for the ride! 

CSSHEGEWICH - The Alco C630's were with the Canadian Pacific for a month. 

In the pictures they have just arrived from Alco and went out the next day May 23rd to Toronto-Windsor returning through London on the 24th to the Toronto Yard. They were then sent out West by CPR and tested in the Rockies. 

Then they came back East! All this lasted until June 20th!...UP still doesn't have 'em cause its someone else's turn now...???

All these Alco's D&H, NYC, CPR, UP ..not an EMD or GE in sight. 

Sometimes life is kind. 

Did any of us have a clue the NYC was near the end and the Penn Central debacle was not that far ahead, or that Alco would call it quits in Schenectady and retreat to it's subsidiary MLW, a mere shadow of it's former greatness,..I don't think so, we were still traumatized by the loss of steam, Baldwin, branch lines galore, hanging on by fingernails with passenger service. Then the 70's hit. 

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, May 2, 2017 10:45 PM

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, May 2, 2017 10:48 PM

This is the dynamometer car #62 as seen in the photo...still around 1988...was used on steam and diesel. 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, May 3, 2017 10:08 AM

I may be a bit off-base here but I would think that the D&H S2's were present to perform any local switching and passenger switching.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, May 3, 2017 6:30 PM

Hint- There were 8 of the 1,000 HP D&H switchers at St. Luc that summer. 

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, May 3, 2017 10:56 PM

NYC 5303_5332 Alco RS-3 

 

Hiding behind 4210 are 2903-2904 a pair of Alco (UP painted) C-630 demonstrator units with CP dynamometer car 62! 
Units operated from Montreal - Toronto - Windsor May 23rd. returning through London May 24th. to Toronto Yard. 
Then went out west and tested in the Rockies, came back east then went to CNR before delivery to UP. 
CPR demo 5/20/1966 - 6/20/1966 Note: CPR bought 37 units. CNR bought 44 units. 

 

D&H 3015 one of 8 1000 HP Alco's leased to CPR was also present that same day on the shop track. 

 

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, May 3, 2017 11:01 PM

 Well gentlemen, there's your answer. The D&H units, 8 of them, were leased to the CPR that summer. 

CHHHEGEWISCH was closer to the answer's. Did not want to drag this out too long!

The Demonstrators were painted for UP but they sure got some miles on them before they received them! 

Alco UP 2903_2904 Alco C-630's on CPR and CNR 

 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, May 4, 2017 10:10 AM

I'll take that as a green light to ask the next question.  It may not quite fit the guidelines of this thread, but it is intriguing.

What is the only commuter rail station inside the Chicago city limits that is NOT served by Metra?

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by SD70M-2Dude on Thursday, May 4, 2017 7:59 PM

I see what you did there Wink....  but I don't have a question ready so I'll leave it for someone else.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, May 5, 2017 6:12 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH
What is the only commuter rail station inside the Chicago city limits that is NOT served by Metra?

Why, Hegewisch, of course.  On the Kensington and Eastern between Kensington and the Indiana line, it's served by NICTD's South Shore Line.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, May 5, 2017 10:07 AM

Rcdrye is right, he gets the next question.

Interesting situation with the Kensington & Eastern from prior to NICTD, it's owned by the Illinois Central, who leases it to the Indiana & Kensington, a wholly-owned subsidiary of CSS&SB, who in turn sub-leases it to CSS&SB for operation.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, May 5, 2017 11:45 AM

IC's K&E line predated CSS&SB predecessor CLS&SB, but never operated its own line.  It's owned now by Anacostia and Pacific, owner of the SouthShore Freight operation.  NICTD leases the K&E, and in turn CSS uses NICTD's line under an operating agreement.

This city's elevated railroad, which was constructed just like its contemporaries, was early enough to be steam powered, late enough to get electrified, and uneconomic enough to be abandoned before 1905.

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