State of Maine is the train, and Concord NH is the neighboring capital city. Coming up with the question's phrasing was the hard part on this one. The State of Maine lasted until 1961. B&M and NYNH&H bought new cars for it as late as the mid-1950s. Depending on the year the Concord connection also drew Boston-Concord locals.
State of Maine Express is on the list of PRR named trains. 1929 to 1931.
http://www.prrths.com/newprr_files/Hagley/PRR%20NAMED%20TRAINS.pdf
I suspect that at that time it ran from Washington, like the Montrealer. In fact, during the time when I rode, 1939 - 1963, there was usually one, sometimes two, sleepers that were interchanged with the Monrealer/Washingtonian, Washington - Bangor or Portland sleepers. But when I rode it, and I rode it both to and from Concord and to Portland, it originated and terminated at Grand Central Terminal. My first aned most following trips, 1939 - 1949, were to and from summer camp in New Hampshire, and then in Maine. At the end, the train was combined with the Owl from Providence to New York.
Later. just before and after WWII, a summer-only train, the East Wind, provided Washington - Maine service. I do not know if it had a Concord connection. Never road it. The State of Maine also carried coaches.
During most of WWII, after some time in 1942 until end-of-summer 1945, the State-of-Maine equipment ran round trip each day, running a daytime service as The Day Express, with Pullman seating daytime sold as parlor-car seating. This train did not serve Providence, but used the direct Groton - Worcester line. It did have the thru Concord car, if my memory is correct.
rc: still waiting for your ok to ask the next
Please go ahead - I thought I had already given the OK.
Staying with Concord, NH, to travel to New York City's Grand Central Terminal, threre were three (or four if you count the Day Express direct route and the State-of-Maine via Providence route as separate) routes that were practical and useful and used, and yes, I did use all three not just railfanning. Name change of train locations and through cars or trains traveling berween to different railroads and all other engine changes encountered on the two other routes. Name equipment if you can. Be thorough, beyond the obvious.
Concord NH to GCT practical routes
Concord - B&M - White River Jct VT - B&M - Springfield MA - NYH&H - New York GCT.
Train change at WRJ, through cars from WRJ with engine changes at Springfield and New Haven. Depending on era and train could have RDCs Concord-WRJ, or WRJ-Springfield (change at Springfield). NYNH&H could run through New Haven with FL9s, or had an RDC connecting with a Shore Line train. B&M trains had mostly 4-6-0s and 4-6-2s, with one train (that required a change in Springfield) getting Central Vermont power. In the diesel era F2 F7 and GP7 from EMD, RS3 from Alco.
Concord - C&C (B&M) - Claremont Jct NH - B&M - Springfield - NYNH&H
Gas Electric or steam with open platform coaches Concord-Claremont Jct, same as above south of Claremont Jct (all connecting trains came from White River Jct)
Operated as B&M until 1955, Claremont and Concord until end of service 1956 or 1957.
You could also go Concord NH - B&M - Ayer MA (via Lowell) and connect to a B&M train for Greenfield MA, where you could get a train (from White River Jct, or a local) to Springfield MA. Or you could change at Worcester to a Bostan and Albany train to Springfield...
With the Clairmont Junction connection in place, why would anybody go north to White River Junction. Never knew anyone who would go that way. The Clairmont Jc connection is correct, but you left out one obvious change of railroad ownership on the way to GCT. What is it? What changes occured to the train at that point?
You left out the practical rout that most people ended up using, because of frequency of service. No Concord - NYCity passenger rail journey is possible at the moment, but if one is to be available in the near future, this should be the one. Be thorough with all changes requird.
I left out the B&M's southbound-only use of CV between Brattleboro and East Northfield MA and NYC's Harlem Division from Woodlawn NY to GCT. The route via White River Jct. used joint CV track from White River Jct to Windsor VT as well.
Most folks probably took the B&M from Concord to Boston's North Station, then an MTA train to either Back Bay (as currently practiced from the Downeaster to the rest of the Amtrak system) or to South Station to take a Shore Line NYNH&H train to GCT (on the NYC past Woodlawn). NYNH&H engine change at New Haven CT unless FL9s were used.
and from North Station to South Station after the Atlantic Avenue Elevated was shut down?
Then by all means ask the next question.
daveklepperNorth Station to South Station after the Atlantic Avenue Elevated was shut down
Change at Park Street or Washington (Downtown Crossing), depending on which line you used from North Station.
I'm going to be out of town until early next week, so if I post a question now I won't be able to validate the answer. Please post another one - I'll get back in the queue at some point.
OK I will comply with your wish. But you should have mentioned the change from under 11000V AC 25 HZ catenary to 600V DC underruning third rail when going from NYNH&H tracks to NYCentral at Woodlawn.
The Yonkers streetcar system was an extension of the overall Manhattan and Bronx (and earlier oneline extensions into both Brooklyn and Queens) system of Third Avenue Railways. Four lines ran south to bring people to northern terminals of two subway lines, now the 1 and the 4 subway lines, one was a suburban crosstown that ran west to downtown Mount Vernon and the NYNH&H station there. A short one car line ran west to serve a hilly neighorhood, and four ran north to additional residential areas, two of them through-routed with lines to the present 1 subway terminal. One line was an unusual exception. It ran south to the Bronx, but stopped at the city line, did not connect with any subway, just to a bus. Provide as much information on this unusual line as you can. Be sure you know its street and its route number as a minimum. Its track configuration is easy to describe in a few sentences, possibly even one.
Hint: Yonkers streetcar lines were numbered 1 thru 9. ! and 2 were the two thru lines that showed SUBWAY southbound to connect with the northern terminal of what is now the 1 subway line. 3 was a short-turn or both 1 and 2 from that subway terminal to the center of the city at Getty's Square. 4 ran from Woodlawn, northern terminal of the 4 subway line, thru Getty's Square to the foot of Maine street. Left for you are 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. Of all these lines, 2, 3, 4, and 7 were the ones that no single-track sections, only double-track. 1, 5, 6, 8, 9 all had single-track running.
One last group of hints and then if no answer in a day or so, a new question. The line's northern terminal was close to the Foot of Main Street but not at that location, and this was the only Yonkers line that did not terminate (No. 3) or pass through (all the rest but this) Getty's Square. Two cars ran during the rush and mid-day weekdays, one at other times. Single track with one mid-route passing siding. Southern border at the NYC (The Bronx) line connecting to a bus, another nickle or dime, which then made a subway connection.
I will wait two more days before answering the question and posting a new one. Hopefully, someone will come up with the right answer.
daveklepperOne line was an unusual exception. It ran south to the Bronx, but stopped at the city line, did not connect with any subway, just to a bus. Provide as much information on this unusual line as you can. Be sure you know its street and its route number as a minimum. Its track configuration is easy to describe in a few sentences, possibly even one.
I'll bite, since nobody else seems to want to: Line 5, Nepperhan Avenue, to connect with the B43 bus after 1948 (the Bronx trolleys were shut down 4 years before the Yonkers operation. Branched off at Elm and consisted of one single track.
The 5 ran east from /ft. of Main Street, then jogged north and then east again to Neperhan Avenue, then north, single track. It did not run south to the Bronx, it did run through Getty's Square going east on the same tracks as 6 and 7 before turning north. So it did not connect with any Bronx bus. There was more than one passing siding, and about five or six cars were required for rush hours. The northen end had the only open ties on ballast track on the whole TARS/TATS system, side-of-the-road, the east side.
Now that RC is back, I'll give him a day to answer, otherwise I'll post a new qustion.
The diesel locomotives on this railroad and its leased subsidiary were distinguished by the parent road's engines having 3-digit numbers, and the subsidiary's 4-digit numbers starting with 2. Steam locomotives had followed the same pattern, with the notable exception of the last two classes built.
Rob:
Are you looking for the Soo Line? Soo's SG GP7's were in the 550 series and the WC's were in the 2550 series. Ditto for the balance of the SOO/WC diesels.
Ed Burns
NP Eddie Rob: Are you looking for the Soo Line? Soo's SG GP7's were in the 550 series and the WC's were in the 2550 series. Ditto for the balance of the SOO/WC diesels. Ed Burns
The Soo is, of course, the correct answer. The only real exceptions to the pattern were the Soo's N-20 4-8-2's 4001-4020, with only 4001-4010 belonging to the MStPSSM, the balance to the WC, including the three built at Soo's Shoreham shops from Alco-supplied parts (4018-4020). The four O-20 4-8-4's were all WC engines. WC's 2555 was unique among Soo's GP9s as the sole unit with dual controls.
rc; Are you going to ccom up with the answer to my Yonkers question, or should I gve the answer?
Sorry, I thought RME had the answer. My oops. The last note from you wanted me to pose a question from my previous turn up, which I did, already answered by NP Eddie. Not sure who that leaves up. I would like your anser if it's different from RME's.
Rob and All:
As information, the SOO used the MILW tracks from St. Paul Union to their own depot in Minneapolis. This meant that west and northbound SOO passenger trains headed into the depot, then backed out to a connection with the NP and used joint NP-SOO tracks to 14th Avenue North in Minneapolis where the SOO branched off the NP. East and south bound passenger trains backed into the MILW depot then headed to St. Paul where they terminated. I know that a few Pullman cars originated in Chicago and were transferred to the SOO for movement to the CP and the Canadian Rockies.
I'll step in with a question if that's OK.
In the early 1930's the various railroads and Pullman air-conditioned their newer cars for the comfort of the public.
Two of the deep south railroads touted air conditioning for their "white" and "colored" passengers. One of them stated that "the colored coach between point A and point B was NOT air-conditioned". Name the two railroads. Dig into the various OG's for the answer. Have fun.
Thought I had explained that the 5, Neperahand Avenue, went from downtown Yonkers north, not south to The Bronx. The answer is the 8, Riverdale Avenue, which just went back and forth on that street, northen end at Mian Street with track connection to the rest of the system, and south end at the Yonkers-The Bronx city line. North of Main Street, the same street was called Warburton Avenue with the single-track portion of the 1, Warburton Avenue line, that came up from the "Subway" on Broadway witht he 2 and 3.
The Riverdale section of The Bronx was very posh and its resdents did not wish any public transit beyond the NYCentral commuter station that was already there. Later, a bus was introduced.
I believe the Southern did not air-condition coaches, just Pullmans and diners, until the Southerner arrived and then the Tennesian. The ACL and SAL air-condiioned important through trains pretty early. The SAL may have noted the non-air-conditioned. colored coach for its portsmouth (norfolk) - AtlantaBirmingham route or Jacksonville - New Orleans, and the ACL Atlanta - Wilmington.
Central of Georgia - Atlanta-Savannah.
Rob and all:
In my response to your SOO question, I should have clarified that the SOO used the MILW (along with the RI) in Minneapolis.
Regarding the white and "colored coaches, keeping looking in the OG's of the 1936 era. CofG is not correct, however the CofG did own "divided" coaches in the 1940's. The 261 group owned one and I toured it. A door seperated the white and colored sections and the white and colored lavatories were NOT equal in size.
NP Eddie Rob and all: In my response to your SOO question, I should have clarified that the SOO used the MILW (along with the RI) in Minneapolis. Regarding the white and "colored coaches, keeping looking in the OG's of the 1936 era. CofG is not correct, however the CofG did own "divided" coaches in the 1940's. The 261 group owned one and I toured it. A door seperated the white and colored sections and the white and colored lavatories were NOT equal in size. Ed Burns
I rode in one of these from Statesville to Winston-Salem in 1958, on #22.
Johnny
So, forgive my ignorance on general knowledge of Jim Crow Laws ( being a Canadian Canucklehead..we simply did not have these things) but my question is could white folk ride with the black folk? seeing the black folk were segregated and could not ride with the whites.
Every train in the States with these laws had to have this separation? Seems kind of expensive all around and a real pain in the arse to keep up with and comply.
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