No, it was not the SNE. IGN correctly answered this question in a PM, but apparently does not want the question. His clue above is correct.
Guys, this isn't fun if everyone that knows the answer refuses to provide it...
Yes, don't be bashful if you do know the answer--unless you have answered more questions than you think you should. I admit I have felt that way, and responded as IGN did--and nobody else responded--and have ended up having to pose another question.
Johnny
NorthWestGuys, this isn't fun if everyone that knows the answer refuses to provide it...
Au contraire, it's much more fun watching to see others figure it out.
I sometimes learn much more ... or am reminded of things I'd forgotten, like the SNE since its '100th anniversary' a few years ago ... when looking around for the answer than I do finding it. That only adds more to the fun.
And I don't have to pose a question 'with the pressure on' ...
RME SD70M-2Dude Considering the circumstances, could one say the project sank? Are you making fun of poor Mr. Hays? I don't think North West is asking about the Southern New England anyway -- too many details don't match.
SD70M-2Dude Considering the circumstances, could one say the project sank?
Are you making fun of poor Mr. Hays?
I don't think North West is asking about the Southern New England anyway -- too many details don't match.
I was referencing SNE, but realized after NorthWest's first response that I was incorrect. Even if I had been right I wouldn't have answered, you are right, making up a question is too hard on short notice.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
I really don't think it is fair to expect me to ask another question when I have just come up with one and the answer is known by several of the thread participants. Usually that only happens when everyone is stumped.
Someone please answer it before these threads collapse.
NorthWestSomeone please answer it before these threads collapse.
Or we collapse with laughter. OK, guys, it had the same name as a famous railway (not railroad) watch maker. (Not one of the best watch making companies, either)
Wow, another example of a super railroad, killed by machinations involving J.P.Morgan, part of whose ROW was later used for a high-speed motor road... that might have been an interesting question to pose to trick people into the wrong 'usual answer'...
I still think it was a mistake to scrap it, thanks a bunch Mr. Brandeis
So close, and yet so far.
Find THIS in your Official Guides!
The Hampden Railroad (named for one of the counties it was built in) ran across one of the bleakest parts of Massachusetts, connecting with bits of New Haven's and B&M's lines on the west (B&M Chicopee Falls and NYNH&H Armory branches) and with B&M's Central Massachusetts on the east. Thorndike is a village in the town of Palmer. It looks like the idea was to link the Central New England's line to the Poughkeepsie Bridge with B&M's line to Boston and Maine north of Worcester, cutting out the B&A for Boston traffic. Only 14 miles long, it cost about $4 million in 1910 dollars.
Like several other B&M/NYNH&H projects of the period, the economic possibilities were weak at best. The only parts of the project that still exist are a piece of B&M's Chicopee Falls branch (Pioneer Valley) and maybe a bit of the Massachusetts Central line that runs northeast from Palmer which is made up of ex-B&A and ex-B&M track. A bunch of the ROW is now the route of the Mass Turnpike (I-90).
Oh, Yes, Hampden was a famous (if not respected) maker of railway watches.
You've got it!
Thank you very much!!!
Here's another "Robber Baron" question, then.
Two of Chicago's four L companies were largely financed by this financier who was also involved in street railways. When he left the country in a hurry in the early 1900s, his master mechanic went with him, which is why Hedley trucks were found in Chicago and this world capital city. All I'm looking for is the financier's name. If it helps any, the circumstance of his providing capital for a major transport system was mentioned (though he was not) in a PBS "Masterpiece Mystery" series episode.
The financier in question is Charles Tyson Yerkes. Most of his involvement with Chicago street railways was with various operators on the North Side.
Correct! Yerkes left Chicago to go off to London where Hedley's trucks found use on the Underground. On some Underground lines trains have "cars", not "carriages", as a remnant of Yerkes and other American investors' influence. The mention of American investment ocurred in the BBC drama "Sherlock" episode "The Empty Hearse".
Yerkes at one time controlled the Lake Street and Northwestern Elevateds, and covered the north and west sides with his West Chicago and North Chicago Street Railways, with horse, cable and electric operations. He also owned most of what later became Chicago and West Towns Railway.
Don't forget the Observatory...
I can't believe I've been mispronouncing the name all these years... thanks.
I'll stick with Chicago. The Chicago Rapid Transit Company was the product of the consolidation of four companies. What were the names of all four companies?
According to my system, it took 0.62 seconds for
Presuming this is what you were asking for, I have a follow-up question. The four companies did not consolidate directly into the Chicago Rapid Transit Company, but engaged in an intermediate form of consolidation. Name that, and provide dates. Other details would be welcome.
By the time of the first consolidation, the Lake Street Elevated had gone from Railroad to Railway(1899), acquired its own west end (Chicago and Harlem, 1900) and reorganized as the Chicago and Oak Park Elevated Railroad (1904).
The four operating companies formed the Chicago Elevated Railways Collateral Trust starting in 1913 (not absolutely sure), primarily for the purpose of purchasing steel cars. The cars were numbered in the 4000 series but were lettered for the specific owner.
The 1913 equipment trust certificates were in the names of all of the underlying companies but the C&OP, which was in bankruptcy at the time. Moody's stated that the certificates "Were not a liability to the Trust itself". The cars purchased were the 4000 series "Baldies" with no roof ventilators and center doors which were rarely, if ever, used.
The Northwestern Elevated had also merged in the Union Elevated Railway and the Union Consolidated Elevated Railway in 1903 or so. Those two made up the east and south and west sides of the Loop, including the legs to meet the South Side at Harrison St and the Met at Franklin. C&OP had built the Lake Street leg (as the LSERR) in 1897.
Were the center-door baldies the first Chicaqgo steel L cars? They did not have trolley poles, so they could not have run the Lake Street service.
At the time the 4000-4250 series Baldies were constructed, the Northwestern El also used trolley poles on ground-level track north of Wilson Avenue shared with owner CM&St.P's steam powered freight trains. Their ARMCO steel roofs would have made it difficult, but not impossible, to put poles on them in any case. 66 of the 250 Baldies were built as control trailers, and all of them were equipped with Westinghouse ABLFM control, which could interwork with the GE type M control common on the wooden, trolley pole equipped cars. Baldies seldom ran on Lake Street, even after the later pole-equipped "Plushies" arrived. 30 of the 255 Plushies were built with GE PC10 control, but all of them could train with each other and any wooden cars except for the South Side cars with Sprague control.
So Chicaqgo's first steel L cars were all control trailers. New info for me!
The 66 4000-series control trailers were part of the larger "Baldie" order. Northwestern had several runs of their own or with South Side Rapid Transit that didn't require poles - Ravenswood and Wilson-Kenwood come to mind. Even more interesting than lack of poles was the difference in couplers - units assigned to the Met had Tomlinsons, Northwestern had Stearns & Ward.
So that was 134 3rd-rail motors and 66 control trailerws? And the motors often ran witrh wood trailers? I think I saw some mixed wood-and-steel trains in the summer of 1952, but no steels mixed with gate cars. But occasionally wood gates and wood vestiules together. By my return in 1967 all wood cars had goen and the 4000's were the oldest cars running, and soon were to go.
4000s of both series (Baldies and Plushies) could train with any wood cars with the exception of South Side cars with Sprague control (1-250). The South Side Spragues could train with South Side cars with modified Westinghouse AB control, which in turn could train with the 4000s, but not at the same time. Chicago had a bewildering array of controls, most of which were set up for automatic accelleration. The difference in balancing speed (50 steel, 40 wood) was the main obstacle to mixing wood and steel cars operationally. There were also different coupler types, and Met cars had the safety springs on the left side instead of the right.
All of the 4001-4066 trailers had longitudinal seats, as did the first batch of 4067-4250 motors, with the last 120 or so having transverse rattan seats.
To finish the anser to the question, in 1923 the member companies of the Chicago Elevated Railways Collateral Trust merged to form the Chicago Rapid Transit Company, with CRT taking over operations in early 1924.
The second group of 4000 series cars were delivered between 1922 and 1924 with either Chicago Elevated Railways or "Rapid Transit" on the letterboards. The 4251-4455 series had wooden roofs with trolley poles, transverse plush seats, had no center door but had framing to permit the installation of one. Control was Westinghouse ABLFM (Automatic, Battery/Line, Field Control, Type M (GE) compatible) or GE PC-10 pneumatic cam (30 cars), (PC-10 is also type M compatible).
rcdryeTo finish the answer to the question, in 1923 the member companies of the Chicago Elevated Railways Collateral Trust merged to form the Chicago Rapid Transit Company, with CRT taking over operations in early 1924.
That confirms what I was wondering.
A final note on the steel cars. The cars assigned to the Met and Lake Street lines had Van Dorn couplers (not Tomlinson, never used on CER/CRT/CTA, but used by CA&E on steel cars) and cars assigned to Northwestern and South Side lines had Stearns and Ward couplers. Both series had a mix of GE and Westinghouse motors. One of the trailers was eventually motorized with equipment from a burned-out baldy motor, but it was given transverse naugahyde seats and the number 4456 and mated with one of the Plushies.
What was the common link between the "Electroliners", the "Fort Crevecoeur" and the ACL's Lakeland-Naples Florida section of the "Champion"?
All were "shovel-nose streamliners" with passengers or other revenue in the motive power. (I am unsure if the shovel-nose doodlebug in the Naples service had ony bag-expess-mail facilities or had passenger seats (as well?).
However, the two Electroliners were double-ended. The other two trains were not. Other differences were fixed consist (CNS&M) or loose-car (IT & SAL) trains. But the front-end styling was very similar for all three. Besides being standard gauge and using axle-hung motots for final drive. Unsure about meal facilities, having only used those on the Electroliners.
All three were air-conditioned. All three had roof-mounted headlights, typical of shovel-noses.
I think the SAL Naples branch had street-running in at least one location, giving it an interuruban-like flavor. But of course the CNS&M & IT trains ran on 600V DC, and the Naples branch train had a Winton, EMC, or EMD diesel prime mover.
The Electroliners did not have any assigned baggage space and baggage doors. The other two did.
My mistake, the Florida railcars were ex-SAL, not ACL, but the history is the same... Add in Southern's FM railcars and all have a common origin. What is it?
Saint Louis Car Company. Applies only to the head end of the Naples train. The rest of the equipment was primiarily Budd and Pullman.
Dave, the motorcars built by St. Louis Car had no passenger seats. They were used to pull any cars, no matter who built them.
As you said, the Naples section of the Champion used cars built by other manufacturers. I did not notice who built the cars I rode when I went down to Naples and back in February of 1971 (roomette from Savannah down, coach up to Lakeland)
Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!
Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter