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Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:19 PM

Al, you're not warm yet but keep guessing.

Mark

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 7:43 PM

KCSfan

No cigar, Al. Not Bowater.

Mark

Georgia-Pacific?  At least it SOUNDS like it could be a RR company.  -  a.s.

 

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 7:20 PM

No cigar, Al. Not Bowater.

Mark

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 6:42 PM

KCSfan

Johnny,

I'll tell you that it was in the south and a big paper mill owned by its parent company was its principal customer.

Mark

Just a guess:  Bowater?  

 

 

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 6:24 PM

Johnny,

I'll tell you that it was in the south and a big paper mill owned by its parent company was its principal customer.

Mark

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 5:50 PM

KCSfan
What paper mill shortline railroad ran a passenger train complete with reclining seat coaches and a sleeping car into the mid-1950's? What was the route of this train, and the other railroads and trains that carried the sleeper to its final destination?

Mark can you give us a hint, perhaps the state that the shortline was in?

Johnny

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, March 9, 2009 10:43 AM

Johnny hasn't posted a question yet and since one popped into my mind I'll go ahead and take a turn.

What paper mill shortline railroad ran a passenger train complete with reclining seat coaches and a sleeping car into the mid-1950's? What was the route of this train, and the other railroads and trains that carried the sleeper to its final destination?

Mark 

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Posted by KCSfan on Sunday, March 8, 2009 11:51 PM

Johnny,

I don't have a question handy so you go ahead and ask the next one.

Mark

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, March 8, 2009 8:59 PM

Nice pictures, Mike. Now, which road used which side of the station in Norton? As long as the Interstate had passenger service into Norton, it used the same station that the L&N and N&W used, running a train through Norton on its way between Stonega and Glamorgan (June, 1916 Guide).  This train also stopped at the union station in Appalachia.

The Redbird was the PRR's morning train between Chicago and Cincinnati; the Union was the mid-afternoon train.

Johnny

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Sunday, March 8, 2009 5:32 PM

Deggesty

KCSfan

Norton was at the end of an L&N branch from Pineville where it conected with the Corbin - Lynch line. If you have a '53 OG you might want to check if there was still passenger service to Norton. Even if there was the trip wuld have required a change at Pineville to the train for Corbin.

L&N timetable 4/27/52 shows #12 Norton to Pineville and #22 Lynch-Pineville-Corbin. L&N timetable 9/28/52 shows #12 Norton to Cumberland Gap, which is 47miles from Pineville, a long walk or taxi ride. 4/27/52 TT indicates all Southland coach passengers change in Cincinnati. L&N schedules show only PRR & B&O connections in Cincinnati. Of course, you could specify NYC routing, but NYC might not hold for L&N connections, whereas PRR & B&O would, since there were through sleepers on the L&N train.

Is my face red!  After hauling out and perusing my Jan. 1953 Off. Guide of the Rwys., it seems the only L&N out of Norton was just as you said, going only to Cumberland Gap (one station PAST Harrogate, TN BTW).  So appparently the Chi-bound traveler of that era could go from Lynch or Harlan or Pineville (with many intermediate stations) and then have a convenent change to The Southland at Corbin, but the Norton bound train,as stated above, missed that route by many, many miles. Apparently a thru trip was possible just a year earlier, though.  It was still possible to take No. 6 from Norton to Bluefield, WV with a convenient change to the WB Pocohontas.  

I'll award KCSFan first refusal on asking the next question, since he answered it all except for voicing some (justified) skepticism about  Norton - Corbin L&N thru travel in 1953.  Johnny, you know you nailed it so if KCS doesn't care to post the next question, consider it yours.

Thanks to all!  - allen

 

 

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, March 8, 2009 4:38 PM

KCSfan

Norton was at the end of an L&N branch from Pineville where it conected with the Corbin - Lynch line. If you have a '53 OG you might want to check if there was still passenger service to Norton. Even if there was the trip wuld have required a change at Pineville to the train for Corbin.

L&N timetable 4/27/52 shows #12 Norton to Pineville and #22 Lynch-Pineville-Corbin. L&N timetable 9/28/52 shows #12 Norton to Cumberland Gap, which is 47miles from Pineville, a long walk or taxi ride. 4/27/52 TT indicates all Southland coach passengers change in Cincinnati. L&N schedules show only PRR & B&O connections in Cincinnati. Of course, you could specify NYC routing, but NYC might not hold for L&N connections, whereas PRR & B&O would, since there were through sleepers on the L&N train.

Johnny

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Posted by KCSfan on Saturday, March 7, 2009 11:45 PM

al-in-chgo

KCSfan

Al,

If taking the N&W you'd change at Bluefield to the Pochahontas for the trip to Cincy. The Big Four's James Whitcomb Riley would be the train to take from Cincy to Chicago. On the L&N you'd change at Corbin to the Southland which you'd stay on all the way to Chicago.

My only question is did the L&N still have passenger service on the Pineville - Norton branch in 1953? It was freight only by the summer of 1954 [emphasis added]. 

Mark

Mark, you are SO close to answering all the questions.   Re: Trip using L&N -- give me some idea of what route or routes the Cincy - Chi leg took, and over which systems.  Are you sure there was no change of coaches in Cincy? 

I had thought I was okay for 1953 and the Corbin connection at the L&N, but it would take me a while to dig out my 1953 O.G.R.  Anyone out there want to help?  -  allen 

al-in-chgo

Al,

The Southland's route between Cincy - Chi was over the PRR via Richmond and Logansport. While the Southland's sleepers ran through from Florida to Chicago I think you are right about coach passengers having to change cars at Cincy.  I believe the ACL/L&N coaches carried on the Southland ran only as far north as Cincy and PRR coaches ran from there to Chi.

Norton was at the end of an L&N branch from Pineville where it conected with the Corbin - Lynch line. If you have a '53 OG you might want to check if there was still passenger service to Norton. Even if there was the trip wuld have required a change at Pineville to the train for Corbin.

Mark

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Saturday, March 7, 2009 10:56 PM

KCSfan

Al,

If taking the N&W you'd change at Bluefield to the Pochahontas for the trip to Cincy. The Big Four's James Whitcomb Riley would be the train to take from Cincy to Chicago. On the L&N you'd change at Corbin to the Southland which you'd stay on all the way to Chicago.

My only question is did the L&N still have passenger service on the Pineville - Norton branch in 1953? It was freight only by the summer of 1954 [emphasis added]. 

Mark

Mark, you are SO close to answering all the questions.   Re: Trip using L&N -- give me some idea of what route or routes the Cincy - Chi leg took, and over which systems.  Are you sure there was no change of coaches in Cincy? 

I had thought I was okay for 1953 and the Corbin connection at the L&N, but it would take me a while to dig out my 1953 O.G.R.  Anyone out there want to help?  -  allen 

 

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Posted by KCSfan on Saturday, March 7, 2009 10:39 PM

Al,

If taking the N&W you'd change at Bluefield to the Pochahontas for the trip to Cincy. The Big Four's James Whitcomb Riley would be the train to take from Cincy to Chicago. On the L&N you'd change at Corbin to the Southland which you'd stay on all the way to Chicago.

My only question is did the L&N still have passenger service on the Pineville - Norton branch in 1953? It was freight only by the summer of 1954.

Mark

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Saturday, March 7, 2009 9:38 PM
wanswheel
Bluefield and then right up through Devon to Cincinnati on N&W, yes?

Yup!  Now, who can suggest name trains to change to at Corbin, KY and at Bluefield, WV?  Both trains go to Cincinnati.  A reminder: you are traveling coach class.  If you'd like to guesstimate the fare, it's one way with no excursion or RT discounts, all the way Norton - Chicago. 

 

 

 

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Posted by wanswheel on Saturday, March 7, 2009 9:25 PM

Bluefield and then right up through Devon to Cincinnati on N&W, yes?

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Saturday, March 7, 2009 8:53 PM

 

wanswheel

L&N to Corbin, KY and N&W to Devon, WV?

 

L&N is correct, but N&W -- right road, wrong transfer point.  Hint:  It's still called "Nature's Air-Conditioned City" and is just across the state line from a much smaller community with the same name.  -  a.s.

 

 

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Posted by wanswheel on Saturday, March 7, 2009 7:09 PM

L&N to Corbin, KY and N&W to Devon, WV?

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Saturday, March 7, 2009 6:47 PM

henry6

.C&O or B&O to Cincinnati...

 

Sorry, neither one.  -  a.s.

 

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Posted by henry6 on Saturday, March 7, 2009 6:12 PM

.C&O or B&O to Cincinnati...

 

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, March 7, 2009 5:57 PM

al-in-chgo
Don't quote fares; it will most likely show someone's researching the matter and I'd like to leave the fare structure open as a further question in case of a tie. 

This might have been a competitive fare, even though one starting road was from one region and the other starting road was from another region, which had much the same fare structure as the region of both of the ending roads.

Johnny

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Saturday, March 7, 2009 5:29 PM

Deggesty
I

Al, from what Dave Klepper said, he was satisfied with Erikem's response. It looks to me that the thread is open for another question. Will you amuse us?

Johnny

Sorry I was so slow to pick up your offer, but I'm very grateful to get a crack at it!  Here goes: 

It's early morning on a weekday in May, 1953, and you're in Norton, Virginia.  You want to travel by rail to Chicago (any downtown terminal will do), and you want to get there as quickly as possible entirely by rail. 

The first leg of your trip will involve taking a train from Norton to a more northerly point, where you change to a named train that is operated by the same company that you originated your trip with. 

Here's the kicker:  There were two different RR systems at Norton (and I'm pretty sure they both had terminus[termini?)] there) that offer the opportunity to take one of their trains, travel in a northerly direction, and change to a named train that's the same company as the one you left Norton on.

Correct answer (try it without the OGR first!) will be to name both originating RR's, the transfer point or points, and the likeliest "name" train(s) you'll transfer onto to spend the least amount of time on a layover (assume all trains are on time).   Both RR companies were Class One and even the youngest among you would recognize the names, although of course they are now history.  .  

Excellent answer includes the faster of  the two journeys Norton, VA to Chi, IL. 

Superb answer includes the name of the midwestern city or cities where you'd change trains again if you were traveling coach, to what different railroad company or companies, and to the likeliest named train you'll connect with (again, assume all the trains are on time).

It might be fun to try this without the OGR, at least in the beginning.  Don't quote fares; it will most likely show someone's researching the matter and I'd like to leave the fare structure open as a further question in case of a tie. 

Have fun, guys and gals!  -  a.s.             Big Smile  

 

 

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:49 AM

Al, from what Dave Klepper said, he was satisfied with Erikem's response. It looks to me that the thread is open for another question. Will you amuse us?

Johnny

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 3:51 PM

Has the second part of the above question been answered too?  - a.s.

 

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 12:52 PM

daveklepper

Erikem is correct.   The New Canaan Branch was electrified with 600V DC trolley wire in 1901, and this was just one of a number of New Haven branches that had this form of electrification.   They were all integrated with whatever local streetcar network was adjacent, soon all owned by the Consolodated Company, later renamed the Connecticut Co., and owned by the New Haven.   The New Canaan branch was operated as part of the Stamford streetcar network until the AC 11000V electgrification reached Stamford, then the new 11000V elecctrificaiton replaced it, and the line reverted to being a branch of the railroad.   The other branch line electrifications were just abandoned.  So Erikem gets to ask the next question.

Erikem, do you have a question?

Johnny

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 5:17 AM

Erikem is correct.   The New Canaan Branch was electrified with 600V DC trolley wire in 1901, and this was just one of a number of New Haven branches that had this form of electrification.   They were all integrated with whatever local streetcar network was adjacent, soon all owned by the Consolodated Company, later renamed the Connecticut Co., and owned by the New Haven.   The New Canaan branch was operated as part of the Stamford streetcar network until the AC 11000V electgrification reached Stamford, then the new 11000V elecctrificaiton replaced it, and the line reverted to being a branch of the railroad.   The other branch line electrifications were just abandoned.  So Erikem gets to ask the next question.

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, January 26, 2009 5:47 PM

This is a message I posted t or 3 weeks ago when we were having problems and getting "Post Pending Moderation" messages. It just now was approved and showed up after all that time.

Mark

KCSfan
TZ,The KCS actually had two subsidiaries that operated the Texas parts of its lines. The Texarkana & Ft Smith built the 79 miles  between Port Arthur and the TX/LA state line at the Sabine River. It became a part of the KCS but was operated separately in accordance with Texas state law until 1933 when the ICC used its authority to override the Texas law. The state of Texas appealed the ICC ruling to the Supreme Court which decided in favor of the ICC in 1934. This was the case that ended the requirement that railroads operating in Texas had to be headquartered in the state. The T&FtS was then leased by the KCS and later was dissolved as a corporation and fully absorbed into the KCS system.The Louisiana Arkansas & Texas operated 181 miles in Texas from McKinney near Dallas to the Louisiana state line. This was originally an MKT line that was purchased in 1923 by the Louisiana Railway & Navigation Co. of Texas. In 1930 the LR&N of Texas was renamed the Louisiana Arkansas & Texas and for a while was headquartered in Greenville, TX. In 1939 the LA&T was merged into the parent Louisiana & Arkansas which in turn was acquired by the KCS. The combined roads operated as the KCS/L&A Lines until the early 1960’s and by 1966 the L&A had been completely dropped from its name. However the L&A existed as a legal entity until 1992 when it was dissolved as a corporation. I always thought Colorado & Southern trackage ended at the NM/TX state line and thought it was FW&D from there south into Texas. Your reply got me to do some further research and to my surprise I found that the FW&D was indeed a subsidiary of the C&S. I never fail to learn something new and interesting from these questions.Mark  

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Posted by erikem on Friday, January 23, 2009 12:05 AM

 I would guess the New Haven, with the line still in service being the New Canaan branch - which I rode in summer of 2006. It was kind of fun seeing some of the stations pictured in Middleton's When the Steam Railroads Electrified, which I bought 31 years before that.

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Posted by henry6 on Thursday, January 22, 2009 2:55 PM
So where are we going with this?  Chicago?  Like CSS&SB?  Not being from there I am sor of Insullated from the history of the area.  Insullated?  Get it? Insullated. Ha Ha?

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