Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

[daveklepper]

Describe in detail the equpment, routing, transfer arrangements, and frequency, of what the ICC mandated operation that replaced the California Zephyr, were.

[Deggesty]

daveklepper

Describe in detail the equpment, routing, transfer arrangements, and frequency, of what the ICC mandated operation that replaced the California Zephyr, were.

I did not remember that the ICC mandated any specific service, but the CB&Q/BN-D&RGW operated a "California Service" three days a week that connected in Ogden with the tri-weekly City of San Francisco in Ogden. It had coach, diner, and sleeper service. It was impractical to have it run through to Oakland because the RG came into the Ogden station from the north, whereas the UP comes in from the south. In time, the Salt Lake City-Ogden leg was replaced with an automobile transfer.

Johnny

[daveklepper]

Johnny, you are correct.   Except that the replacement for rail by van service between Ogden and Salt Lake City occured after 1 May 1971, when the D&RGW Denver - Salt Lake train, the Rio Grande Zephyr, began operating without sleeper service or through service to the east of Denver.   This train also operated for a few weeks at least to Ogden.   If my memory is correct.

But now please complete the answer.  IN addition to coach, sleeper, and diner service, it had a lounge.   What was it?  What were its terminal points.   How far did the sleeper operate?  Did the diner run through?  What exactly was the service on the Burlington?  What other trains were combinted with it and where? 

[Deggesty]

daveklepper

But now please complete the answer.  IN addition to coach, sleeper, and diner service, it had a lounge.   What was it?  What were its terminal points.   How far did the sleeper operate?  Did the diner run through?  What exactly was the service on the Burlington?  What other trains were combinted with it and where

My memory is not good for more than I stated above, but I do remember that it was combined with another train. It could not have been the Denver Zephyr eastbound, for there is no way it could hae gotten to Denver in time, though it might hae been the DZ westbound.

Johnny

[daveklepper]

Hint for all the additional answers:   The train was switched at Galesburg, at Omaha, at Denver, and at Salt Lake City, either for equipment pick-up and drop-off or for combining.

[Texas Zepher]

daveklepper

 IN addition to coach, sleeper, and diner service, it had a lounge.   What was it?  What were its terminal points.   How far did the sleeper operate?  Did the diner run through?  What exactly was the service on the Burlington?  What other trains were combinted with it and where? 

It was called the California Service.

The interstate commerce commission required tri-weekly service connecting with the Milwalkee, UP, SP City of San Francisco at Ogden.

The BN operated the Californa Service as trains 15 & 16 between Denver & Omaha. The trains were consolidated with the 5 and 11 and 6 and 12 between Chicago & Galesburg. Remained consolidated with the 11 and 12 between Galesburg & Omaha.

The D&RGW renamed their portion of the train the Rio Grande Zephyr retaining the #17 and #18.

Umm what else....

The California Service had a vista dome coach, 10-6 roomete, diner, and buffet-lounge-observation (I presume from the discontinued CZ). When the Denver Zephyr released the chuck wagon buffet-lounge-dorm cars during the winter they replaced the diner in the California Service.  During this time of the year the California Service had three domes.

All space reserved, no extra fees while on the BN (not so of the D&RGW & SP). The sleeper ran Chicago to Ogden.  The coach assignment gets really messy between Chicago & Omaha but up to four coaches in the combined trains.

[daveklepper]

Close enough to be winner.   In the late Spring of 1970 I rode the service both ways.  I left my car at the Aurora Station, boarded my roomette, in an ex-CZ sleeper, spent some time in the ex-CZ (stil carrying the neon CZ sign at the rear), had dinner in the Burlington cafe car, at the counter.   This car ran only to Omaha or Denver.  I don't know which, bcause I ate long before we got to Omaha, and waited to have a genuine fine breakfast in the D&RGW diner, which I knew would be added at Danver.   During California Service days, the D&RGW diner ran in front of the obs while on the D&RGW, for ease in switching, both in Denver and St. Lake City.   After 1 May 71 and after a van took over the Ogden - Salt Lake connection, the diner was in the middel of the train for greater passenger conveninence.   Tom Long, the Passenger VP for the Grande, sat across from me at dinner and arranged a company car connection for me to UP station for connection to the CofLA, which I rode to LA, with breakfast in the dome diner.  He also asked me to stop by his office if I had time in my planned stopover (to visit my older sister and children) in Denver on the return.  Rode the observation parlor with a rear window seat on the Coast Daylight to SF, somehow managing a decent meal in the automat car, and later rode the stainless and red SP SF-Ogen sleeper (rest of the train UP yellow), across the platform coneection to the D&RGW, which on that day had a single black and red SP FP7 as power, and from Ogden to StL consisted of just the two coaches and one sleeper.  Other cars, including the combine at front, the diner an obs at rear were added at StL.   Rode east only to Ogden, Tom Long intruduce me to Leonard J. Bernstein at his office and told me Leonard would be his successor, then rode back to Aurora on the DZ.

[Texas Zepher]

A little change of pace. 

1.  What railroad was the first to employ dining car waitresses instead of waiters, and what train/route was this on?

2. What railroads dining cars were "famous" for, exclusive of, or had a specialty of:

1. baked potato
2. french toast
3. corn bread pie
4. shrimp creole  (also exclusively on what train?)
5. baked corn & tomatoes
6. Colorado mountain trout, Saute Meuniere
7. The Kings Dinner ($9.85 in 1965) (exclusive to what train?)
8. hickory smoke country ham
9. reindeer mulligan, hunter style
10. turkey isabelle
 

 

 

[Deggesty]

TZ, I can give answers to some of your question

The Pere Marquette (C&O) employed waitresses on the Pere Marquette, in Michigan.

1. Baked potato: Northern Pacific

6. Colorado mountain trout: I guess D&RGW, though it might have been the Santa Fe

7. King’s Dinner: Illinois Central’s Panama Limited

Johnny

[Texas Zepher]

Deggesty

The Pere Marquette (C&O) employed waitresses on the Pere Marquette, in Michigan.

Correct on both counts.

1. Baked potato: Northern Pacific
6. Colorado mountain trout: I guess D&RGW, though it might have been the Santa Fe
7. King’s Dinner: Illinois Central’s Panama Limited

Correct
Incorrect (D&RGW & Santa Fe both had really good trout but not this specialty)
Correct
 

[KCSfan]

2. French Toast - Santa Fe

4. Shrimp Creole - Southern Crescent

6.  CO Mountain Trout - Union Pacific

8. Hickory Smoked Country Ham - L&N

9. Reindeer Mulligan - BC Ry

10. Turkey Isabella - New Haven

Mark

[Texas Zepher]

KCSfan

2. French Toast - Santa Fe - Yes

4. Shrimp Creole - Southern Crescent - No, and I can't think of a hint.

6.  CO Mountain Trout - Union Pacific - No, every one is overlooking the Saute Meuniere part

8. Hickory Smoked Country Ham - L&N - Yes

9. Reindeer Mulligan - BC Ry - No, don't forget the "hunters style" part.  The dish included a book explaining that reindeer had been domesticated so didn't taste the same.

10. Turkey Isabella - New Haven - No, the Chief  was Henry Bausbach

 

[al-in-chgo]

Texas Zepher

KCSfan

2. French Toast - Santa Fe - Yes

4. Shrimp Creole - Southern Crescent - No, and I can't think of a hint.

6.  CO Mountain Trout - Union Pacific - No, every one is overlooking the Saute Meuniere part

8. Hickory Smoked Country Ham - L&N - Yes

9. Reindeer Mulligan - BC Ry - No, don't forget the "hunters style" part.  The dish included a book explaining that reindeer had been domesticated so didn't taste the same.

10. Turkey Isabella - New Haven - No, the Chief  was Henry Bausbach

 

these are guesses: 

Shrimp Creole  -  IC

Colorado Mountain Trout  -  WP

Reindeer Mulligan  -  ARR 

Turkey Isabella  -  B&M 

 

[Texas Zepher]

al-in-chgo

Shrimp Creole  -  IC - Yes,  exclusively on the City of New Orleans

Colorado Mountain Trout  -  WP - No

Reindeer Mulligan  -  ARR - No, but a good guess as the reindeer came from Alaska.

Turkey Isabella  -  B&M - No, as near as I can tell the B&M's signature dish was clam chowder.

 

[henry6]

WAGs for fun: Colorado Mt. Trout:  SP&S

                      Reindeer Mulligan: Q, NS and L or MC

                      Turkey Isabella...I'm leanin' toward an eastern road like DL&W, Erie, or LV.

[al-in-chgo]

 

Texas Zepher

al-in-chgo

Shrimp Creole  -  IC - Yes,  exclusively on the City of New Orleans

Colorado Mountain Trout  -  WP - No

Reindeer Mulligan  -  ARR - No, but a good guess as the reindeer came from Alaska.

Turkey Isabella  -  B&M - No, as near as I can tell the B&M's signature dish was clam chowder.

 

 

Well, at least I got one -- guessing out the rest, I'll hazard

Colo. Mountain Trout - Rock Island

Reindeer Mulligan - BC Rail

Turkey Isabella - NYC     

[Texas Zepher]

al-in-chgo

Colo. Mountain Trout - Rock Island

Whoo hoo!.  With each set of guesses you get one more!

Looks like this question has run its time.  I'm going to give Deggesty the win so he can post the next question.  I'll post the summary of this one a bit later (when I get my notes back in my hand.).

[Deggesty]

Texas Zepher

Looks like this question has run its time.  I'm going to give Deggesty the win so he can post the next question.

Here's a quick one. About sixty-seven years ago, one railroad in the Southeast decided to rename its engines of one type "MacArthur," and stop using the name that all other railroads had used (and still use). What was the road, what is the commonly accepted name, and why was the name changed? The change did not last long.

Johnny

[henry6]

Well, I am pretty sure it was Mikado but the railroad is a guess: Santa Fe?

[al-in-chgo]

But Santa Fe's track was almost entirely in the U.S. Midwest and southwest (also Texas).  Except for Texas, it wasn't a southeastern rwy.

[Deggesty]

henry6

Well, I am pretty sure it was Mikado but the railroad is a guess: Santa Fe?

Henry, you are right that "Mikado" was an unwanted name. But, why? And, what road in the Southeast (the Santa Fe did operate into Louisiana, but it was not really considered to be a Southeastern road)?

Johnny

[henry6]

Well of course the name was unwanted because of it being Japanese. MacArthur was the US General in the Pacific Theater of WWII.  But I missed the southeast clue, so I will guess either Seaboard or ACL.

[Deggesty]

henry6

Well of course the name was unwanted because of it being Japanese. MacArthur was the US General in the Pacific Theater of WWII.  But I missed the southeast clue, so I will guess either Seaboard or ACL.

Well, you answered two out of three, so no one else can top that. The railroad was the Central of Georgia. I have a memory that another road tried this, but the CoG was the one I knew in the SE. It's your question.

Johnny

[al-in-chgo]

Deggesty

henry6

Well of course the name was unwanted because of it being Japanese. MacArthur was the US General in the Pacific Theater of WWII.  But I missed the southeast clue, so I will guess either Seaboard or ACL.

Well, you answered two out of three, so no one else can top that. The railroad was the Central of Georgia. I have a memory that another road tried this, but the CoG was the one I knew in the SE. It's your question.

Johnny

Nice Job, Henry 6 . . . .

Is it too late to know which RR's served Turkey Isabella and moose  reindeer steaks?   -  a.s.

[Texas Zepher]

Texas Zepher

The ANSWERS

1.  What railroad was the first to employ dining car waitresses instead of waiters, and what train/route was this on?  Chespeake and Ohio - With the acquisition of the Pere Marquette came the major change in tradition. Waitresses were employed on Prior PM routes between Chicago & Buffalo.

2. What railroads dining cars were "famous" for, exclusive of, or had a specialty of:

1. baked potato - Northern Pacific
2. french toast - Santa Fe (a 1918 Fred Harvey recipe)
3. corn bread pie - Baltimore & Ohio (passengers would continue past their stops to have 2nd helpings)
4. shrimp creole  (also exclusively on what train?) - Illinois Central; City of New Orleans
5. baked corn & tomatoes - Chicago Burlington & Quincy; P.M. Scott's recipe he got from his mother.
6. Colorado mountain trout, Saute Meuniere - Rock Island; Rocky Mountain Rocket
7. The Kings Dinner ($9.85 in 1965) (exclusive to what train?) - Illinois Central; The Panama Limited
8. hickory smoke country ham - Louisville & Nashville; One of Clifford J. Haury's many recipes for ham that been aged 18-24 months (1920).
9. reindeer mulligan, hunter style - Great Northern
10. turkey isabelle - Missouri Pacific (1930)

 

[henry6]

I know so little compared to most of you even sleeping on the thought of a queston produces little, but here goes:

As a youngster in the late 40's and early 50's getting round the NY Metropolitan area to see trains and railroading produced a myriad of scenes, equipment, and technologies.  One of the most impressionable suprises happend one day when I saw what appeared to be a Union Pacific business car?  Where would I have seen it, why there, and who would do a thing like that?

[Texas Zepher]

henry6

As a youngster in the late 40's and early 50's getting round the NY Metropolitan area to see trains and railroading produced a myriad of scenes, equipment, and technologies.  One of the most impressionable suprises happend one day when I saw what appeared to be a Union Pacific business car?  Where would I have seen it, why there, and who would do a thing like that?

I would not think that would be a surprise at all.  And I can guess a whole lot....

I'll guess Grand Central Station. 

why and who (the list is endless)?
UP Executives attending some rail related conference.
UP Executives  working an interchange deal with one of the eastern railroads.
UP Executives trying to do a merger deal.
UP Executives securing financing or announcing something on wall street.
UP Executives wifes just visiting and doing some Christmas shopping at Sack's 5th Avenue.

On a whole different train of thought.

The car was seen on the docks.

It was new and being shipped from the plant to the rails.
It was in need of repair and being shipped back to be refurbished.
It was being shipped overseas for a tour.
 

[henry6]

WWWaaaallllll...if it were that simple I would not have brought it up.  And you missed a clue.

[KCSfan]

Henry,

I''ll list a few possible locations where you saw the UP Business Car. My guesses range from the most probable (No. 1) to the least likely (No.3).

1.In the consist of a NYC mainline passenger train at GCT

2. On the NYC "High Line" which as I recall ran from 34th St. to the St. Johns (or was it St. James) Freight Terminal

3.On a car float crossing the Hudson

If any of these is correct I'll try to come up with a logical explanation of why the car was in NY City,

Mark

[henry6]

Three "no's".  And I did not say it was a UP business car; I said it "appeared to be".