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Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, April 10, 2024 1:48 AM

1.  Backstop gave the correct answer with the B&M' Berks with the unusual front vecause of the Coffin heater.

2.  The AMC Birks surely were based on the Erie's.

3.  I've understood the P&LE's to be a sop to Alco, as well as Keifer.

4.  Before Backstop asks the next question, or with it, can someone do the legwork and post data?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

'

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Posted by Backshop on Wednesday, April 10, 2024 7:43 AM

It's actually Overmod's turn.

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, April 10, 2024 10:07 AM

Mr. Klepper said you were up, Backshop...

... while you're thinking of a good one, here's a quickie:  sticking again with 2-8-4s, what class has the most of their tenders remaining in preservation?

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Posted by Backshop on Wednesday, April 10, 2024 8:55 PM

He thought that I answered the question about the B&M Berkshires, but it was you, Overmod.  You're up!

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, April 11, 2024 3:48 AM

Tenders!

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, April 11, 2024 6:55 AM

L&N Big Emmas.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, April 11, 2024 7:31 AM

Please, please, someone post thec2-8-4 data!

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, April 11, 2024 10:37 AM

rcdrye
L&N Big Emmas.

Ding!

4-8-4s for a railroad with turntables just a smidge too short.

And were those tenders snazzy!

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, April 11, 2024 1:43 PM

Overmod
rcdrye
L&N Big Emmas.

 

Ding!

 

4-8-4s for a railroad with turntables just a smidge too short.

And were those tenders snazzy!

 

I was trying to remember why I knew that.  Strange the details that get parked in your head.

I'll post something else later today or early tomorrow.

 

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, April 12, 2024 4:37 AM

Still hoping some reader will post the 2-8-4s data.  At least the B&A's.B&M's and AMC (Nickle Plater, C&O, PM), but adding tyhe P&LE and Erie if possible, and also the L&N.

 

Maybe I'll have better luck asking for the on the TRAINS Steam & Preservation Forum?

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Posted by Backshop on Friday, April 12, 2024 9:47 AM

Here's the data that I could glean from Farrell's Berkshire And Texas Types. If there are multiple orders, I just am giving it for the original order.  It will be in class/cylinders/driver/boiler pressure/engine weight order.

B&A A-1a 28x30 63" 240# 389,000#

Erie S-1 28.5x32 70" 225# 443,000#

B&M T-1a 28x30 63" 240# 393,000#

NKP S 25x34 69" 245# 428,900#

PM N 26x34 69" 245# 436,500#

L&N M-1 25x32 69" 265# 447,200#

C&O K-4 26x34 69" 245# 460,000#

P&LE A-2a 26x32 63" 230# 426,000#

DT&I n/a 25x30 63" 260# 411,500#

If you want any more railroads, just let me know.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, April 12, 2024 10:17 AM

THANKS     I suspect the Erie's had the most change, first-to-lsst, and the data for the last would be very important.

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Posted by Backshop on Friday, April 12, 2024 1:09 PM

Erie S-4 70" 28.5x32 250# 468,800#

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, April 13, 2024 11:08 AM

Norfolk Southern (probably the epitome of the light eight-coupled in the United States, built for maximum horsepower on 25T axle load). Baldwin 1940.

23.5x32, 63", 250#, 49,300TE, 335,400 engine weight.

ATSF 4101 class.  Built 1927, toward the end of the 'drag era' tendency for 2-8-4 design.  Described as "basically good 1922 engines with a 1927 wheel arrangement"; they might be thought of as the same logical extension of a Mike as the original 3751 class was as a 'Heavy Mountain' or the original conception of a 2-10-4 from a Santa Fe type.  Interestingly, these never received the 'beauty treatment' locomotives like T&P 610 got in the Thirties, nor were extensively rebuilt like the 3751 class.

27x32, 63", 220#, 69,200 TE, 396,500 engine weight.

The boilers were designed for 250#, and one example (4115) was 'optimized' for this pressure: 78,685TE -- these were 15" piston valves with 9.5" travel!

 

Illinois Central 7000 class (Lima 1926)

28x30, 63", 240#  76,160TE, 388,000 engine weight.

As you would expect these were track-wreckers even at 40mph, with a nasty habit of suddenly going into full gear at high mass flow.  Apparently engineers could get broken arms from this...

The IC's original 'beauty treatment' for this class was to rebuild them into freight-only Hudsons -- some of the existing diagrams note all the engines so converted (with 'new' driver diameter 73.5", likely the largest size that would 'fit" the existing dimensions.  This plan was stillborn for a number of reasons, and likely the Depression restricted rebuilding of the 2-8-4s in kind until the very late Thirties.  What they were given was a pressure increase to 265#, a change from type E to type A superheater (with a reduction in heat-transfer surface!), a 1" reduction in piston diameter (from 28x30 to 27x30) and some experimentation with different arrangements of circulators and syphons.  The result was a slight increase in nominal TE to 78,194# but with engine weight ballooning to nearly match ATSF at 393,500#.

These engines worked until the end of steam on the IC, but they sure went fast when they went, perhaps the only other thing they did 'fast' aside from winding out the gear...

 

International Great Northern and then Missouri Pacific (BK-63, 1928 and 1930).

28x30, 63", 240#, 76,160TE, 404,000 (1928) 412000 (1930) engine weight.

These were some of the late 'original' type, and were probably among the best-looking of them.  Notable was that the grate area dropped dramatically (100.30 to 87.90), and the firebox direct heating surface shrank from 415' to 357' (383' by 1936 per diagram), yet the engine weight ballooned by several tons, and the combined heating surface went from 7239' to 7744' only about 300' of which reflected longer tubes and none of which involved a combustion chamber.

MoPac sensibly rebuilt these into 4-8-4s (with 75" drivers) in the early war years.  These had cast engine beds with roller bearings, and "practically complete new boilers", and of course corresponding modern driver centers and rods.  These produced better than 2 and a half times the road mileage per month of the original type.

 

C&NW J-4 (1927)

28x30, 63", 240#, 76,160TE, 397,000 engine weight

I think these were one of the 'inspirations' for the MoPac engines (which were also by Alco) -- in turn, these were supposedly inspired by the later B&M 'sports model' engines.  Here again are the 14" valves with limited cutoff that are part of the 'SuperPower' formula.  As far as I know, they ran primarily coal trains during their slow lifetimes, and weren't heavily modified.  We don't need to look far at C&NW power to understand why this was so:  the answer is a simple letter.  H.  The money put into either of the extensive rebuildings the 4-8-4s were given easily outweighs anything short of full rebuilding that the 2-8-4s could provide -- the 1948 rebuilding in particular may rate as the best-evolved of all the big full dual-service 4-8-4 designs.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, April 17, 2024 8:39 AM

Great job in providing all this information, and do please ask the next question, thanks.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, April 30, 2024 10:04 AM

Overmod, we  are waiting!

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, April 30, 2024 11:55 AM

I keep finding fun questions, like who ran steel double-unit diners, only to find there are scores of answers all over the first page of a Google search.  Even assuming everyone doesn't know about them already...

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, April 30, 2024 4:30 PM

Just make sure whatever you find doesn't come from the Classic Trains Forum...

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, April 30, 2024 5:00 PM

rcdrye
Just make sure whatever you find doesn't come from the Classic Trains Forum...

I am in fact repeatedly on record as advising quiz querents that their posers have, in fact, been posed before...

I remember someone commenting on making a considerable 'income' from sending jokes to Playboy Magazine... having gotten them from old back issues of Playboy and but lightly updating them if needed.  There is no reason to suspect anyone here of such behavior.

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Posted by Backshop on Wednesday, May 1, 2024 6:20 PM

Here's a question, just to keep things moving.  I can think of three railroads (there may be more) who have two stations where the second one is the first one's name, spelled in reverse.  I'm thinking of one Class One and two mineral hauling shortlines. Two are in the northeast and one in the mountain west.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, May 2, 2024 9:28 AM

Dotsero and Orestod, and Foster and Retsof, are the ones that spring to mind quickly.

(The latter related to the 'salt' discussion we were having...)

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, May 2, 2024 10:03 AM

The third would be Colver and Revloc on the Cambria & Indiana, a Pennsylvania coal-hauler.  

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, May 2, 2024 1:21 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH
The third would be Colver and Revloc on the Cambria & Indiana, a Pennsylvania coal-hauler.

'Colver' is for the owners' names -- Coleman and Weaver.  The mine itself was named Revloc, so it is not as clear that the names mark opposite points on the track directly.

Incidentally, historical references to 'Dotsero' as a place name (including its crater) considerably predate the cutoff...

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Posted by Backshop on Friday, May 3, 2024 8:29 PM

OM and CSS combined for the correct answer(s).  And yes, the conversation about the G&W was the impetus for this question.  Who ever wants to ask the next one...be my guest! ETA--the C&I was owned by Bethlehem Steel.

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, May 3, 2024 9:31 PM

CSS has better and more interesting questions.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, May 11, 2024 10:19 AM

I'm flattered.  Sorry about the delay but here goes.  South Shore's first two freight motors (505-506) were sold off when South Shore re-electrified in 1926-1927.  Who bought them?

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, May 11, 2024 1:30 PM

I can "answer" this, but not conclusively enough to count.

Canadian National... where they apparently got at least one renunbering, ending up as 175-176.

But I can find no pictures of them in CN service, or where they were worked, so it doesn't count.

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, May 11, 2024 6:35 PM

They worked in the Port Huron-Sarnia tunnel electrification, often MUed with boxcabs purpose built for the tunnel.  "When the Steam Railroads Electrified" by Wm. Middleton has several photos of them in service.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, May 13, 2024 10:17 AM

I'll give it to rcdrye since he got the location correct.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, May 17, 2024 5:09 PM

This city, at one time home to several cable car companies, kept its slightly larger than standard track gauge to the end of streetcar operation in the 1960s.  There were other systems with wider track, but this one was closest to standard gauge.  Some interurbans operating in the area initially built to the wide gauge, but converted to standard very early in their elecric operation. The biggest interurban serving the city never operated on the streetcar system's track.

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