Isn't that my favorite streetcar, the New York Railways 'Broadway Battleship' of 1912? Ran on the Green Line IIRC
Notable for innovating true low-floor convenience for large numbers of passengers long before importance of that was popularly recognized -- it makes those 'two rooms and a bath' attempts look as primitive as they were.
I have not read the account in Trolley Talk 135 completely, but this was to me a highly well-thought-out answer, facilitated by conduit pickup which made the upper level height easy to implement. I don't really know of the showstopping reasons more of the double-level (or single-level Hedley & Doyle) cars weren't built.
Most readers know that Chicago Motor Coach and NYCity's Fifth Avenue Coach Company operated doiuble-deck buses. And most British cities had double-deck streetcars (OK, Trams), and Blackpool still has some in heritage regular service.
New York City had one and only one double-deck streetcar.
Who? Where? When? Why? Why not more?
As far as I know, Chicago did not have any, but crrect me if I am wmistaken.
I'm out. It's getting too hard to come up with questions that are interesting and not overly obscure.
& still waiting!
Waiting for CSS's question
Dave - these photos are of my Father's boyhood favorite - brass drivetrain, very heavy - can you tell me who manufactured this model? I'm also looking to have someone restore it if you know someone.... Thanks!
OvermodWas C&IT's main really built to high-speed standards?
Was C&IT's main really built to high-speed standards?
And in 1911, about the peak of the Roadtown idea, was there any organized attempt at fostering real-estate or PUD development around periodic interurban stops?
C&IT is the one. C&IT mainly operated suburban servieces as far as Chicago Heights, where it also ran the local system. A long line down to Kanakakee ran through a sparsely populated area. Owned by Insull interests from 1911 to 1922, it didn't make the cut as a Chicago super-interurban. Illinois Central's suburban electrification drained much of C&IT's traffic after 1926, leading to abandonment in 1927. All C&IT trackage inside the Chicago city limits was transferred in 1910 to either Calumet & South Chicago Ry or Chicago City Ry, both later component companies of Chicago Surface Lines. The last piece of active former C&IT trackage was on Halsted for about a hundred feet either side of 81st, used as the turnaround wye for Wentworth Ave. streetcars which arrived on 81st, pulled onto Halsted, backed against street traffic and turned back onto 81st. Wentworth Ave. streetcars were the last in Chicago, ending service on June 21, 1958.
Chicago & Interurban Traction, which ran on Halsted Street up to 63rd, where it connected with the "L". Its Chicago area routes converted to bus and became part of South Suburban Safeway Lines.
daveklepper Chicago & West Towns?
Chicago & West Towns?
While the interurban I'm looking for was owned by Insull for a while, it was sold in 1922 before he had finished getting control of his famous 3 Chicago properties.
This Insull interurban was the only one which operated in Chicago's streets. Its trackage was later taken over by one of Chicago Surface Lines' component companies. A short piece of its trackage was among the last active streetcar trackage in Illinois. Name the interurban and the street it operated on.
RC: You covered the differences completely and added the offset truck pivots that I had forgotten.
The first 288 Chicago PCCs scrapped were all Pullman-built, with GE controls and motors. CTA swapped out the trucks with other cars to send Westinghouse motors to St. Louis Car for Rapid Transit cars 6201-6488. All 310 of the Pullmans were Chicago Railways cars. The other 290 postwar cars were built by St. Louis Car, as were the 83 pre-war PCCs. The postwar St. Louis cars were split between CRys (50 cars) and Chicago City Railways (240 cars).
Chicago's PCCs were 4' 5" longer and 5" wider than standard PCCs. The center pin offset was 3", not 4" (my oops).
OvermodNot entirely conventional if I recall correctly; they were given longer traction-motor cabling and truck security chains, etc. to allow more truck swing. I'm sure you of all people will know the full list of accommodations...
daveklepperThe locomotive seems larger than it is because the figure is a boy and not a normal-height man.
rcdryePratt St. was switched by conventional diesel switchers after the Docksides were retired.
ISTR at least the two first Baldwin diesels the Reading owned were set up with some ungodly small minimum radius -- I think these had those fun Batz trucks that were supposed to be similar to the engine-truck arrangement on the high-speed ATSF 4-8-4s although I never figured out how -- this being shown as minimum radius on a list of various Reading engine classes.
Chicago postwar PCCs were different from others:
Longer
Wider - a side effect of this is that the truck center was offset 4" to the left to allow passing clearance. Is this one difference or two?
Door arrangement (2 pair in front, 1 in the middle, three in the back)
Hand controls. I'm not aware of any other that were set up that way
All were delivered as two-man only rear entrance, so... passenger flow.
By the end of service quite a few had been modified for one man/two man service with the hand controls removed. The last ones in service on Wentworth Ave were two man.
Both St. Louis and Pullman delivered PCCs with groups of each numbered in Chicago Railways and Chicago City Railways series. The Pullman PCCs were retired first and stripped of parts for the conversion to the 6201-6720 PCC rapid transit cars, with the St Louis cars converted later, also providing parts to the 1-50 series.
There were four ways that Chicago's post-war PCCs differed from normal, even normal-optional PCC practice. If you can name four fine, and youy might thing of a fifth that I did not.
The entrance to WB&A's terminal was on Pratt Street, where B&O's larger power seldom went. It was the original B&O route across Baltimore before the Belt Line was built. The Docksides had their own track on Pratt Street to serve several customers and reach other sections of B&O's waterfront trackaage. WB&A had a double track with its own rails, including a single slip switch in the street leading to the terminal tracks and loop. Overhead power was purchased from the Baltimore streetcar system. Merriken's "Every Hour on the Hour" book has a photo where B&O's rails are clearly visible.
WB&A had a direct track connection with B&O's Pratt St. track prior to 1921. Installed in 1917, it allowed WB&A to service Camp Meade with box motors and ex-LIRR rapid transit style trailers without entering the downtown street trackage shared with URy&T.
After WB&A was abandoned in 1935, B&O track remained active on Pratt St. until sometime in the 1970s. Unlike B&O's Fells Point area where motive power was provided by tiny boxbab electric and later rubber tired tractors, Pratt St. was switched by conventional diesel switchers after the Docksides were retired.
From the web
Original HO was by Vaeney
The locomotive seems larger than it is because the figure is a boy and not a normal-height man.
Baltimore and Ohio, and the President Class Pacifics. Each was named after a past Presidemt, and they pulled the top passenger trains. But the HO modellers started with Dockside Switchers, 0-4-0Ts.
The "Laurel Line" route was financially tangled with the WB&A, with ownership moving back and forth between the corporations and individual members of the syndicate. If built the line would have served a better population base, but the south end wasn't even making operating expenses before it was sold to Washington & Suburban (via some interesting post-bankruptcy transactions) in 1906. That and a franchise exchange cleared the way for the the 1907 opening of WB&A's downtown terminal in Baltimore, reached via dual-gauge track (URy&T was mostly 5' 4 1/2" gauge dating from cable car days.)
WB&A built a second Baltimore terminal in 1921. Approach to the terminal involved tracks interleaved with a steam railroad line that operated locomotives well known to model railroaders of a certain age. Name the railroad and the famous steam locomotive class.
Correction, I was misinformed years ago. The extension of the United Railways and Electric line from Baltimore that woiuld have connected with the Washington streetecar network was planned and partly graded, but not completed.
RC, ask the next question.
The error came from a railfan whom I found to be accurate in other matters.
Capitol Transit and Baltimore Transit did connect at one time. The winner will be the one who names the Maryland town where they connected. It was not included in the above post..
This streetcar operated on a remnant:
Other than the WB&A route via the former Annapolis Short Line and the WB&A's line to Annapolis Junction there was no complete electric railway path. The Washington, Berwyn & Laurel (and its successors) needed only about 4.5 miles to bridge the gap between Laurel and Annapolis Junction, but that piece was never built (the line itself survived in some form until 1958). Baltimore Transit's suburban line to Ellicot City was begun with the idea of building a line to Washington from Catonsville, but that never got beyond the projection stage.
Both of the lines mentioned were built as part of the Columbia & Maryland, which had purchased the complete right-of-way but did not complete grading and tracklaying before falling unto bankruptcy in 1897. The United Railway & Terminal (Baltimore streetcar) system ended up with the Catonsville end. One odd side effect was the delay from 1903 to 1907 the actual entrance of the WB&A into Baltimore, since the agreement with the C&M prohibited the UR&T from allowing any other interurban to Washington from using its tracks.
Today and for the past 84 years one could use electric rail trnaportation on th e NEC between Washington, DC, and Baltimore, PA. Before that, one could use the Washington, Baltimore, and Annapolis, which overlapped the PRR electrificatioin by a very few years, and even had a level interlocking witht the PRR! There was one other electeric railway possible route, not that anyone used it that I know about. What was it? The possibilty did not exist during WWII, just incomplete pieces of it.
There was enough M&E traffic on the Rockettes and enough problems with CRI&P's use of the RDCs that RI eventually de-motored them and used them (with an old lightweight or even older heavyweight coach) behind an FP7.
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