Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

[henry6]

Well the last time I was in Texas was when I was about 6 months old...that was 66 years ago  so I don't remember all the rivers names!

[KCSfan]

Johnny,

You wouldn't by chance have been riding the Southern Belle of the KCS between New Orleans and Kansas City. Parts of your narrative fit but then others don't. The mighty river you crossed would have been the Mississippi at Baton Rougeand the originating state would be Louisiana. I can't remember for sure, but it the Texarkana depot was (I should say is since Amtrak's Texas Eagle still stops there) in Texas, then you'd have crossed from AR into TX and back into AR upon arriving and departing the depot there. The other two states that you crossed would be Oklahoma and Missouri.

Mark 

[Deggesty]

KCSfan

Johnny,

You wouldn't by chance have been riding the Southern Belle of the KCS between New Orleans and Kansas City. Parts of your narrative fit but then others don't. The mighty river you crossed would have been the Mississippi at Baton Rouge. I can't remember for sure, but it the Texarkana depot was (I should say is since Amtrak's Texas Eagle still stops there) in Texas, then you'd have crossed from AR into TX and back into AR upopn arriving and departing the depot there. The other two states that you crossed would be Oklahoma and Missouri.

Mark 

Mark, you have the train, the road, and the end points! I thought that, from your screen name, you would recognize all. Now, perhaps you need to study the KCS north of Shreveport a little more. Going north, it passes through Arkana into Arkansas, goes west and then north to cross Texas. West of Texarkana, there is a branch into Texarkana--where I woke after sleeping across Arkansas and Texas. Going north from the Texarkana junction, it goes back into Arkansas for a distance, goes into Oklahoma for a long northward trip, then it cuts across the northwest corner of Arkansas to get into Missouri, and, except for a jog to get to Pittsburg, Kansas, it stays in Missouri to its destination. Thus, I crossed by day: Texas, Arkansas (twice), Oklahoma, Missouri, and Kansas.

It wasn't by chance; this trip was deliberately planned to add route miles to my list.

I find this travel a little more interesting than my two one-night (once in each direction) trips on which I slept across Tennessee five times, Georgia four times, and Alabama once.

And, there was the American bragging to an Englishman that Texas is so big that it takes a full day to cross the state. The Englishman responded, "Yes, we have trains that slow, too."

Johnny

[Deggesty]

Deggesty

I can't remember for sure, but it the Texarkana depot was (I should say is since Amtrak's Texas Eagle still stops there) in Texas,

As I recall, from my brief stay in Texarkana in October of 1970, the station is in both states. Then, the ticket office was in Texas, and the benches were in Arkansas. Amtrak says that the station is in Arkansas, at 100 E. Front Street.

Johnny

[KCSfan]

Johnny,

I had completely forgotten that short Texas stretch of the KCS mainline (the old Texarkana & Ft. Smith RR). That's what I get for posting in the morning before I have my coffee and am not yet fully awake.

My 1937 OG shows the following:     AR-TX State Line - MP 477.1, Texarkana - MP 486.9, Cass - MP 503.5, Bloomburg - MP 507.5, TX-AR State Line - 509.8

The 32.7 miles of line in TX is far longer than I realized.

The Google map of Texarkana shows the KCS is entirely in TX as it passes through the city. There's a short connector that runs into the Union Station which straddles the state line. It appears that when making its station stop in Texarkana the front end of the northbound Belle would be in AR and the rear cars in TX.

Mark                                                                                                    

[KCSfan]

On to the next question.

Originating in Eddystone, PA , a unique, never repeated, "unit" train movement was made in the early 1920's. What was the name given to this train, what was its consist and what was its route over the several railroads that handled it.

Mark

  

[passengerfan]

KCSfan

On to the next question.

Originating in Eddystone, PA , a unique, never repeated, "unit" train movement was made in the early 1920's. What was the name given to this train, what was its consist and what was its route over the several railroads that handled it.

Mark

  

I believe the train w the "Prosperity Special" and the consist was all new SP steam locos I believe there were twenty and they were 4-8-2s.. Its route was PRR to St. Louis an the Cotton Belt to Dallas MP to El Paso then SP to Los Angeles.

Al - in - Stockton.  

[passengerfan]

passengerfan

KCSfan

On to the next question.

Originating in Eddystone, PA , a unique, never repeated, "unit" train movement was made in the early 1920's. What was the name given to this train, what was its consist and what was its route over the several railroads that handled it.

Mark

  

I believe the train w the "Prosperity Special" and the consist was all new SP steam locos I believe there were twenty and they were 4-8-2s.. Its route was PRR to St. Louis an the Cotton Belt to Dallas MP to El Paso then SP to Los Angeles.

Al - in - Stockton.  

I changed my mind they were 2-20-2 Santa Fe types and the route was PRR to E st Louis where the SSW took the locos to Corsicana where the SP took the train to Los Angeles.

Al - in - Stockton

[Deggesty]

KCSfan

The Google map of Texarkana shows the KCS is entirely in TX as it passes through the city. There's a short connector that runs into the Union Station which straddles the state line. It appears that when making its station stop in Texarkana the front end of the northbound Belle would be in AR and the rear cars in TX.

Mark, I do not know the layout of the switches at the junction, but I believe that the train I rode was backed into the station. I woke as we were leaving, and I do not remember any change of direction until we were approaching the Joplin station.

I rely extensively on the SPV atlases in my study of railroading (even to the point of copying appropriate pages before taking a trip), and I will be glad to see the last two Canadian atlases when they are published. They do have an advantage over Google and such in that they identify the railroads, and the on-line maps have an advantage in that you can enlarge the scale (to a certain point).

One more note in re the Southern Belle: I first saw the train one summer morning, in Baton Rouge, when it was still a true overnighter, and I was struck by the beauty of the paint scheme.

Johnny

[henry6]

I thnk Al in Stockton is right...er, they were Sante Fe 2-10-2's...but this wasn't the only time Baldwin pulled such a stunt as linking a whole order together for delivery, just the largest.

[wanswheel]

Southern Belle 7/29/68

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/5/8/1/6581.1144530000.jpg

[KCSfan]

passengerfan

 I believe the train w the "Prosperity Special" and the consist was all new SP steam locos I believe there were twenty 2-20-2 Santa Fe types and the route was PRR to E st Louis where the SSW took the locos to Corsicana where the SP took the train to Los Angeles.

Al - in - Stockton

You've nailed it Al. The Prosperity Special was made up of the first 20 out of a total 50 Santa Fe type oil burners that SP ordered from Baldwin. For an interesting account that's well worth the read do a Google search on Prosperity Special and click on the first entry that appears, Titus County, Texas History.

Mark 

[wanswheel]

 Prosperity Special

http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cph/3b30000/3b39000/3b39300/3b39319v.jpg

[passengerfan]

wanswheel

 Prosperity Special

http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cph/3b30000/3b39000/3b39300/3b39319v.jpg

In 1942 Pullman delivered two very large lots of Sleeping cars for service on seven RRs name the RRs Name the types of cars and how many would be owned by each RR You do not have to name the cars but it would be nice to have the number owned by each RR and what trains they were assigned to?

Isn't it nice to have tax season over and I can devote more time to the forum?

Al - in - Stockton

[Deggesty]

passengerfan

In 1942 Pullman delivered two very large lots of Sleeping cars for service on seven RRs name the RRs Name the types of cars and how many would be owned by each RR You do not have to name the cars but it would be nice to have the number owned by each RR and what trains they were assigned to?

Isn't it nice to have tax season over and I can devote more time to the forum?

Yes, Al, it's nice to have you back to perplex our minds.

IC: Panama Limited–2 ea 4C-4BR-2DR, 2 ea 1C-1 DR-3BR Tavern Lounge, 12 ea 6S-6RM-4BR, 2 ea 18 RM, 2 ea 2C-1DR-2BR Observation Lounge

UP: San Francisco Overland–42 ea 6-6-4 and 10 ea 4-4-2 (actually, not assigned to this railroad until 1945, according to Robert Wayner)

C&NW San Francisco Overland–7 ea 6-6-4 and 4 ea 4-4-2 (actually, not assigned to this railroad until 1945 according to Robert Wayner)

SP: San Francisco Overland–11 ea 6-6-4 and 2 ea 4-4-2 (actually, not assigned to this railroad until 1945 according to Robert Wayner) Golden State–11 ea 4-4-2 and 13 ea 6-6-4; these cars were split between SP and CRI&P; neither Car Names Numbers and Consists nor From Zephyr to Amtrak tells us how many were assigned to either road; perhaps since Pullman owned them there was no specific assignation until the split-up of Pullman itself.

CR&P: see SP

MP: Colorado Eagle–4 ea 6-6-4

AT&SFe: Chicago-Kansas City- Tulsa service–3 ea 6-6-4; California Limited–23 ea 6-6-4

Johnny

[passengerfan]

Deggesty

passengerfan

In 1942 Pullman delivered two very large lots of Sleeping cars for service on seven RRs name the RRs Name the types of cars and how many would be owned by each RR You do not have to name the cars but it would be nice to have the number owned by each RR and what trains they were assigned to?

Isn't it nice to have tax season over and I can devote more time to the forum?

Yes, Al, it's nice to have you back to perplex our minds.

IC: Panama Limited–2 ea 4C-4BR-2DR, 2 ea 1C-1 DR-3BR Tavern Lounge, 12 ea 6S-6RM-4BR, 2 ea 18 RM, 2 ea 2C-1DR-2BR Observation Lounge

UP: San Francisco Overland–42 ea 6-6-4 and 10 ea 4-4-2 (actually, not assigned to this railroad until 1945, according to Robert Wayner)

C&NW San Francisco Overland–7 ea 6-6-4 and 4 ea 4-4-2 (actually, not assigned to this railroad until 1945 according to Robert Wayner)

SP: San Francisco Overland–11 ea 6-6-4 and 2 ea 4-4-2 (actually, not assigned to this railroad until 1945 according to Robert Wayner) Golden State–11 ea 4-4-2 and 13 ea 6-6-4; these cars were split between SP and CRI&P; neither Car Names Numbers and Consists nor From Zephyr to Amtrak tells us how many were assigned to either road; perhaps since Pullman owned them there was no specific assignation until the split-up of Pullman itself.

CR&P: see SP

MP: Colorado Eagle–4 ea 6-6-4

AT&SFe: Chicago-Kansas City- Tulsa service–3 ea 6-6-4; California Limited–23 ea 6-6-4

Johnny

Great job Johnny and I thought I would have all sunday free to watch football. So its your turn.

Al in Stockton

[Deggesty]

passengerfan

Great job Johnny and I thought I would have all sunday free to watch football. So its your turn.

Al, surely it did not take longer than one time out to make your last post.Did your computer signal you that there was an answer, and take you away from a game? 

In 1948, Pullman delivered 8 each 14 roomette, 4 bedroom sleepers to the L&A. They were named:

Arthur Stillwell, Colonel Fordyce, Harvey Couch, Job Edson, Leonor Loree, Stuart Knott, William Buchanan, and William Edenborn. What was the significance of these men? Be as specific as you can.

Johnny

[passengerfan]

Deggesty

passengerfan

Great job Johnny and I thought I would have all sunday free to watch football. So its your turn.

Al, surely it did not take longer than one time out to make your last post.Did your computer signal you that there was an answer, and take you away from a game? 

In 1948, Pullman delivered 8 each 14 roomette, 4 bedroom sleepers to the L&A. They were named:

Arthur Stillwell, Colonel Fordyce, Harvey Couch, Job Edson, Leonor Loree, Stuart Knott, William Buchanan, and William Edenborn. What was the significance of these men? Be as specific as you can.

Johnny

Johnny

Artur Stillwell was responsible for the building the RR that is known as the KCS and was its first President.

Colonel Fordyce became the roads second President in 1900

Stuart Knott became the roads third President from 1900-1903

William Buchanan was one of the founders of the L&A and became the President of the KCS in 1904

Job Edson was President of the KCS from 1905 - 1918 and again from 1920 - 1928 until his death

Leonor Loree was President of the KCS from 1918 - 1920

William Edenborn was one of the founders of the L&A and later became a President of the KCS

Harvey Couch became President of the KCS in 1939 he was responsible for seeing the RR through the growth of WW II and following the war the rebuilding of the KCS into a modern RR system.

Al - in - Stockton  

[Deggesty]

passengerfan

Artur Stillwell was responsible for the building the RR that is known as the KCS and was its first President.

Colonel Fordyce became the roads second President in 1900

Stuart Knott became the roads third President from 1900-1903

William Buchanan was one of the founders of the L&A and became the President of the KCS in 1904

Job Edson was President of the KCS from 1905 - 1918 and again from 1920 - 1928 until his death

Leonor Loree was President of the KCS from 1918 - 1920

William Edenborn was one of the founders of the L&A and later became a President of the KCS

Harvey Couch became President of the KCS in 1939 he was responsible for seeing the RR through the growth of WW II and following the war the rebuilding of the KCS into a modern RR system.

Right you are, Al. But--you did not tell us that William Edenborn was President of the Louisiana and Railway Navigation Company, which had the direct line to Alexandria from Shreveport, and went on down to New Orleans, crossing the Mississippi by ferry between Naples and Angola, making using of the Angola Transfer Company.

I find it interesting that the L&A (1896) came into being before the LR&N (1903); did Mr. Edenborn, after helping found leave the L&A, it for the LR&N? In 1929, the LR&N became a part of the L&A.

Your question.

Johnny

[passengerfan]

When the Railroads had there lightweight streamlined cars built by the manufacturers they were constructed of Cor-Ten Steel, Stainless Steel and Aluminum my question is which RRs had cars manufactured of Auminum?

Al - in - Stockton

[wanswheel]

Deggesty

I find it interesting that the L&A (1896) came into being before the LR&N (1903); did Mr. Edenborn, after helping found leave the L&A, it for the LR&N? In 1929, the LR&N became a part of the L&A.

 Johnny, here's something:

"The Louisiana Railway and Navigation Company, organized in 1896 by William Edenborn as the Shreveport and Red River Valley Railway Co., was re-organized May 9, 1903, as Louisiana Railway and Navigation Co. It was known as the Edenborn Line and was completed and placed in operation October 1, 1906, as the short line between Shreveport and New Orleans. This line was owned outright by Mr. Edenborn, the only railroad in the U.S. owned by one individual."

It seems the re-organization of Stilwell's railroad required KCS to be under a trust for 5 years, headed by E. F. Harriman. In 1905, the shareholders returned to power and hired Job Edson.

http://www.pullman-museum.org/main/13.I.k.jpg Stilwell Oyster Car

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1121714 Edson's car

LIRR bought 3 of the KCS cars for the Cannonball Express (Loree, Edenborn and Edson).

http://www.dominionrailvoyages.com/jhd/lirr/manhasset.html

Mike

[Deggesty]

wanswheel

 Johnny, here's something:

"The Louisiana Railway and Navigation Company, organized in 1896 by William Edenborn as the Shreveport and Red River Valley Railway Co., was re-organized May 9, 1903, as Louisiana Railway and Navigation Co. It was known as the Edenborn Line and was completed and placed in operation October 1, 1906, as the short line between Shreveport and New Orleans. This line was owned outright by Mr. Edenborn, the only railroad in the U.S. owned by one individual."

I knew that the S&RVR preceded the LR&N, but I did not know that it LR&N was (apparently) simply the reorganization. I also now know why the LR&N was known as the "Edenborn Line." One of the old Guides that I have shows this in the road's representation.

the "Stillwell Oyster Car is interesting. It took me a moment to remember that the Kansas City Pittsburg and Gulf was the previous name of the KCS--and (I just discovered, in Railroad Names) the successor to the Kansas City Nevada and Ft. Smith. Were the oysters intended for Mr. Stillwell's own table? Some people do like oysters.

Thanks, Mike

Johnny

[wanswheel]

Deggesty

Some people do like oysters.

Johnny, it's clear Arthur Stilwell would eat oysters even from the Hudson River.

http://www.arthurstilwell.com/cannibalsoffinance/15obstructivetactics.html

Stilwell designed and Pullman built the 30-ton capacity wooden tank car in 1897 to bring live oysters to Kansas City. Possibly figuring it's good for the economy of Port Arthur and it proves KCP&G's reach in a palatable way.

"The Man Who Fenced the West" filed his ICC documents: "William Dearborn, doing business as Louisiana Navigation and Railway Company."

http://www.plbg.de/lexikon/personen/images/edenborn1871.jpg

Mike

[passengerfan]

No takers yet on the RRs that operated Aluminum lightweight streamlined cars. I came up with twelve.

Al in Stockton

[ZephyrOverland]

passengerfan

No takers yet on the RRs that operated Aluminum lightweight streamlined cars. I came up with twelve.

Al in Stockton

 

I'll start - the Union Pacific

           - the G&MO with their Abraham Lincoln and Ann Rutledge train sets. 

[wanswheel]

B&O, L&N, MP, KCS, New Haven Comet, CN Turbo

[passengerfan]

Before the CN Turbos there was the Tempo cars which recently returned to Canada after a number of years serving as the Ski Train out of Denver

Al - in - Stockton.

[Texas Zepher]

passengerfan

the Tempo cars which recently returned to Canada after a number of years serving as the Ski Train out of Denver

And ugly cars they were/are.  Very strange roof profile.

[wanswheel]

NH Dan'l Webster, articulated

The model trains industry seems to have produced models of aluminum cars on PRR Broadway Limited, NYC Empire State Express, MILW Olympian Hiawatha, SP Daylight, N&W unknown, and GN Big Sky dome car.

One of two Pullman aluminum cars at the 1933 Chicago World's Fair was sold to CGW in 1952, the observation sleeper George M. Pullman. 

http://bpics.rubylane.com/graphics/shops/rafterroom/061209201.7L.jpg?80

http://www.pullman-museum.org/main/prg509.jpg

http://webbie1.sfpl.org/multimedia/sfphotos/AAC-8212.jpg

City of Cheyenne, the 1933 Pullman aluminum observation coach

http://photoswest.org/photos/00019501/00019534.jpg

[passengerfan]

Texas Zepher

passengerfan

the Tempo cars which recently returned to Canada after a number of years serving as the Ski Train out of Denver

And ugly cars they were/are.  Very strange roof profile.

Had the pleasure of riding the Tempo cars when new they were built for fast services to southwestern Ontario to and from Toronto. They had a tendency to be very rough riding at speeds in excess of sixty mph. It was something inherent in the truck design that was never corrected. They were ideal for the ski train service from Denver as speeds never neared the sixty mark. They should also be ideal for the Algoma Central Canyon trains as speeds are not excessive in that service either. They were Canada's first HEP equipped cars and were constructed in Thunder Bay by Hawker Siddeley a name more familiar in Aviation circles particularly in the UK.

Al - in - Stockton