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Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 8:14 AM

I am doumbfounded that I coiuld make such rediculous a misake.  Of course the PAs and the DL-109s were all six-axle, but four-motored, like EMD E-units.   Well, at 84+!

Is the right nomenclature a-1-a + a-l-a?

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 8:47 AM

As far as I'm concerned, it's time for a new question, and rcdrye has earned the right several times over, the bipolars being only the latest thing that argues for an acceptable answer outside of what I was thinking.

Dave -- if it were an A-1-A I think it would have been a 416 and not a 616 (doesn't the nomenclature follow the powered and not the physical axles?)  Anybody who can not now find the relevant locomotive number (and pictures of the brass model of the specific type) is not trying hard enough.

Either number, the one it had in service or the one it has now, would do.  In any case, rcdrye go ahead and post the next question to keep the thread going.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 1:15 PM

I meant the nomenclature for the PA, not the answer.  The answer should be simply a c + c, sux axles, six motors.

If it has a different number now than in service, is it painted for a different railroad then that of service?

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 1:52 PM

PA would be A1A-A1A. If you (Overmod) were thinking of the "pole" on the long end of a Virginian EL-C (a C-C electric), it was used as a bus connector so that only one pantograph was required for a pair of them.  New Haven removed the bus connector setup.

After its initial electrification had trouble with pickup, this company modified its installation with special booms to allow pickup from a third rail some distance from the running rails.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 3:34 PM

rcdrye
After its initial electrification had trouble with pickup, this company modified its installation with special booms to allow pickup from a third rail some distance from the running rails.

Is this not the lumber railway we had a similar question about only a few months ago?

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 3:40 PM

rcdrye
If you (Overmod) were thinking of the "pole" on the long end of a Virginian EL-C (a C-C electric), it was used as a bus connector so that only one pantograph was required for a pair of them.

I knew nothing about that, and thanks for telling me. 

It was fun enough seeing the 'shoes' between cars on the old Reading MUs that I thought accomplished a similar purpose.  11kV you could just reach up and touch... !

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 3:59 PM

Overmod
Is this not the lumber railway we had a similar question about only a few months ago?

Nope - Red River Lumber used side-reaching pans on otherwise normal overhead wire (and also extension cords).  What I'm looking for was part of an important trunk-line electrification that lasted until after WWII, even if it wasn't all that long.  The original current collection did look something like Red River Lumber's.

GN had Reading-like "shoes" on their Y and Z class electrics.  Pennsy removed them from the Ys they bought from GN.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 4:26 PM

Baltimore and Ohio in the tunnels?

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 8:07 PM

Overmod

Baltimore and Ohio in the tunnels?

 

Correct!  B&O's channel iron overhead system quickly proved problematic. Along with that the requirement for a gantlet track for freight clearance led to the choice of a conventional third rail system with a twist - all of B&O's electrics from the first GE units through the four axle boxcabs (no trucks - the axles could slide a bit from side to side) to some very interurban-like steeplecabs were equipped with a boom on each corner.  The shoes were ordinary gravity type, and the third rail was protected with a board on each side.  On the gantlet sections the booms reached over, so only one third rail was required.  The entire electrification was scrapped in the early 1950s.
 
Here's one of the steeplecabs with the third rail boom
 
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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 9:36 PM

Wow!  I had no idea -- I'd thought of the B&O electrification as using those offset pans to the center elevated conductor.

I get no points for what was essentially an informed guess.  Ask another one.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 6:43 AM

I guess I'll stick with current collecters.  This New York interurban had equipment with poles, pans and third rail shoes.  The pans were short-lived, but the third rail stayed. Third rail was overrunning, not NYC style.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 7:15 AM

New York State Railways.   Nearly all lines trolley wire, but the Syracuse - Utica interurban used third rail, and I suppose the predicessor company might have used pantographs at one point.  Trolley wire was, of course, used on the street trackage, mostly shared with streetcars, in Utica and Syracuse.  In its best days, New York State Railways was owned or mostly owned by the New York Central System.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 10:02 AM

New York State Railways used NYC-style underrunning third rail over West Shore tracks between Syracuse and Utica.  This line was of a more rural nature, serving only one real city. 

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, July 22, 2016 4:51 PM

This interurban used pans on passenger equipment only for a brief interval in the 1920s before passenger operation ended in 1929, but continued with third rail (and trolley) operation for freight for a couple of years longer.  It's sometimes listed as a 1200V third rail line, though it was so early (1899) that it was almost certainly 600V.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, July 25, 2016 1:52 PM

Guessing, Auburn and Syracuse Electric Ry.?

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, July 25, 2016 6:43 PM

Like the rest of the Beebe Syndicate lines, A&S used poles.  The line I'm looking for was a very early third rail line, predating the AE&C and Puget Sound Electric.

I'm not sure where the line planned to use the pans, as it was third rail except for street operation at each end.  As far as I know, only two cars had them, both of which later went to another upstate interurban.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, July 26, 2016 7:14 AM

Kaydeeross? (Sp?) 

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, July 28, 2016 6:40 AM

The third-rail line made freight connections with two New York Central System family members in the same town where one of the lines got a daily milk train with cars from upstate New York and Vermont.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, July 31, 2016 2:03 PM

Chatham, Wallencenber, and Lake Erie Railway

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, July 31, 2016 3:44 PM

Both ends of the line were very nearly at sea level with the middle up in the Berkshire foothills.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, August 1, 2016 7:08 AM

Doesn't the Catham Line I posted meet that requirement?

 

Maybe you are looking for the same line under a new name after reorganization?

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, August 1, 2016 8:36 AM

Doesn't the Catham Line I posted meet that requirement?

 

Maybe you are looking for the same line under a new name after reorganization?

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, August 1, 2016 8:57 AM

The company did operate under various names, but all of them included the name of the northernmost city, which was the second most important, if not the second largest, city in New York State.

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, August 1, 2016 3:49 PM

Buffalo, Rochester and Lockport Rwy. 

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, August 1, 2016 3:54 PM

Miningman

Buffalo, Rochester and Lockport Rwy. 

 

Wrong end of upstate NY, and BR&L never used third rail shoes (or pans).

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, August 2, 2016 10:41 AM

THEN IT MUST HAVE RUN SOUTH FROM ALBANY, ALBANY TO CHATHAM OR ALBANY TO HUDSON.  CHATHAM IS WHERE MILK CAME FROM THE RUTLAND AND WENT TO BOSTON ON THE BOSTON AND ALBANY AND TO NEW YORK ON THE HARLEM DIVISION.    I WILL TRY TO FIND THE NAMME OF THE LINES BETWEEN THSE POINTS, SERVER CURRNETLY DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH BANDWIDTH.;

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, August 2, 2016 7:44 PM

I'll accept that for an answer.  The best known name for the line was the "Albany-Hudson Fast Line", though that was never the corporate name.  The cars with poles, pans and shoes were bought from Cincinnati Car in 1925 (straight sides, not curved sides) and used until passenger service ended in 1929, then sold to the Fonda, Johnstown and Gloversville.  Under the then-current corporate name the Albany Southern ran freight service until 1931, then was dormant until the rails were pulled up in 1938.  Street running in Albany and Hudson, third rail between, including the B&A interchange in Chatham.

 

Here's a link to the photo on page 92 of William Middleton's classic "The Interurban Era"

https://books.google.com/books?id=xHSSBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA92&lpg=PA92&dq=albany+hudson+fast+line+60&source=bl&ots=KKFp7aMyBG&sig=C_DVeH5OpLztKDVbtDtNbqOfzQA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjWsu2ggqTOAhXHNx4KHS2fBgcQ6AEIKjAC#v=onepage&q=albany%20hudson%20fast%20line%2060&f=false

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, August 2, 2016 8:53 PM

"The company did operate under various names, but all of them included the name of the northernmost city, which was the second most important, if not the second largest, city in New York State." - rcdrye

I found the very article you provided the link to yesterday but dismissed it as Albany is not the 2nd largest city in New York State. It's not even close. 

Buffalo, Rochester, Syacuse and Yonkers are all larger in population. If instead you are relying on the second most important because it is the state capital then I say that's a matter of opinion! The Buffalo Bills and the Buffalo Sabres are far more important than a bunch of self important narcissistic politicians. 

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, August 3, 2016 11:55 AM

OK...2nd largest back then! Great stuff 

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