Problem is that as the question seems to be worded, it involves NYC terminal cities that have more than one NL team. What city other than "Greater New York" qualified in the '20s? (Perhaps a more interesting question might come out of the years when NYC lost the Giants and Dodgers, but hadn't yet cobbled up those ridiculous Mets...)
If access in the '30s was anything like it is today, it's hard to imagine anything much closer than Cleveland ("Municipal Stadium", now FirstEnergy Field where no few seats appear to be closer to the Amshack than some of the other seats...) But the question is '20s when they played at League Park, and anyway Cleveland is far from being a NYC 'terminal city', no matter what they called their station building.
Hard to imagine the team 'furthest away from the NYC system' -- in more ways than one! -- being anything but the Phillies. (Pittsburgh had the P&LE) But that's too obvious an answer to be right...
I'll accept the obvious answer that Philly was unreachable via the New York Central System (becuse it might not have been immediately obvious to everyone that Pittsburgh was...) Cleveland was AL, so Municipal doesn't count, though it would for AL stadiums. I'm looking for the NL team whose stadium was closest to the NYCS tracks.
In response to your objection, I'll drop the other question, but the Polo Grounds (Giants) were farther from Grand Central than Ebbets Field (Dodgers).
If I remember correctly the New York Central crossed the Harlem River into Manhattan by the Polo Grounds to connect with the elevated. I do not remember off the top of my head when the bridge went to the IRT. After the New York Central discontinued service across the bridge many trains terminated at Sedgewick Av. And the elevated trains were one stop away. This continued until the NYC trains that terminated were discontinued. The remaining elevated train, the Polo Ground shuttle, was itself discontinued six months later.
By the way Crosley Field, where the Reds played in Cincinnati until 1970, is two blocks from Cincincati Union Station.
rcdrye the Polo Grounds (Giants) were farther from Grand Central than Ebbets Field (Dodgers).
But I understood the question as asking for access to the NYC system in the terminal CITY, not at the terminal facility itself, and certainly many of the long-distance trains stopped at 125th St. which "might" have been more convenient to transit going to or from the Polo Grounds than GCT was going to or from Ebbets. I am not sure you would want to rule out any access via transit north or east from the Polo Grounds to the suburban NYC trains, probably including in the 1920s the weird Yonkers service that didn't go through to Grand Central.
So isn't it 'which stadium was the closest to getting on a NYC train' and not 'the closest to accessing GCT' in the Twenties? (And if it's the latter, we have to consider the speeds and convenience of mass transit that gets you there, not just the physical proximity...)
Not just OCD nitpicking ... although it's sure going to look that way to a great many people...!
Likewise: wanswheel has a clear winner for tracks in proximity to a stadium structure -- but short of Spidey and Doc Ock, is anyone going to be actually boarding a B&A train there? (And where is the nearest station as the tram flies?)
http://www.cincinnativiews.net/images-3/1905%20complete%20map.jpg
Crosley Field where the Cincinnati Reds played until 1970. At the corner of Findlay St & Western Av. Two blocks north of Cincinnati Union Terminal.
You've now had to say that twice, and I thought you were likely to be right after the first time.
I was hoping somebody would get a triple, but I'll have to settle for a double. Overmod got the first response (Philadelphia, not on the NYCS), and the idea that the Brooklyn Dodgers and New York Giants were different distances from Grand Central (though, come to think of it, the Giants could have boarded many NYC trains at 125th St.). Wanswheel gets the closest stadium. Unless I'm completely misreading the Cincinnati map, Crosley was a block or so from the Big Four, while Braves Field players could land a long one in the B&A's Beacon Park yard. Since Overmod got the first one in - it's his question.
While we are talking NYC system - here's a special train:
There was another NYC locomotive used on this train - what was its number? What year(s) did the train operate, and what was it notable for 'advertising'?
Overmod While we are talking NYC system - here's a special train: There was another NYC locomotive used on this train - what was its number? What year(s) did the train operate, and what was it notable for 'advertising'?
Reading the account of the train, I realized how it was that the Rexall drug store in Charlotte was Liggett's (and I jerked soda in the Liggett's in Baton Rouge one summer).
I remember reading about the train in Trains many years back--but I did not find the number of the streamlined NYC engine that pulled the train.
Johnny
Aha! Someone bit in just the way I wanted!
Looks a lot like the Rexall train ... in black and white. As a hint, it would not be as similar in color.
The train in the picture was a response to a different famous train of similar purpose ... pulled by a famous streamlined locomotive of a very different sort. (For extra credit, give me that locomotive's builder's number...)
Deggesty- The locomotive was NYC 4-8-2 L2c Mohawk #2773...leased by Rexall, specially streamlined and also converted from coal to oil just for this train.
However...we fell into Overmod's bobby trap and now must continue to find the answer.
New York State Freedom Train of 1949-50. The other locomotive was NYC #4709
Very good! Now what was the builder's number (and locomotive type, which of course is much easier) of the 'inspiring' train?
It's your question anyway; this is just 'extra credit'...
Both 4709 and 4883 were Pacifics. 4709 was Class K41a and 4883 Class K2b 'superheated". Still searching for builders numbers.
I'm looking for a different builder's number -- the one from the locomotive pulling the train the NYC special was the 'answer to'.
Ok...The New York State Freedom Train was inspired by President Truman's "Freedom Train". That train was powered by by Alco PA-1 built specifically for this train by ALCO. Construction # 74696.
OK the question is " Name the place, the location of this all important railroad town". This place is easily one of the most underated in North American railroad legend. It was not a large metropolitan area by any means, actually quite rural in nature. But..it hosted 6 big railroads and by hosted I mean 5 full sized roundhouses, transfer tables, erecting shops that built locomotives and full shop services by them all. This was some busy place with tightly packed but huge railroad infrastructure. It saw NYC #999 and some weird experimental ones, sort of like Overmods avatar. It also had an important electric interurban, (overhead wires, pantograph's) that also handled freight as well as a zillion people in the summer months, and still exists today. It ran in a totally perpendicular direction to the main steam roads. They all came together in this one town. It was never a big city but if there ever was a railroad town this is the definition of one. It became prominent before the turn of the century (1900) stayed that way until well after the war and then went into a long slow decline until there was little left ( a familiar story). Norfolk Southern, CSX, Conrail eventually replaced N&W, Chessie and PennCentral which themselves replaced Wabash, Pere Marquette and NYC. Even Amtrak made a calling. If I told you the others it would give it away so I'll toss out one hint. A very famous elephant adorns the entranceway to the town. Bonus for why?
By the way, fortunately it has a dedicated group of railheads and rounders saving and preserving what they can.
Bet it has to do with this
I cannot believe the CASO is gone.
St Thomas it is. The other roads involved were the Canadian National, the Canadain Pacific and the London and Port Stanley, an interurban. The Wabash, Pere Marquette, New York Central ( Michigan Central), all had major roundhouses and backstops here. There was also the London and Lake Erie and predecessor railroads. It was famous for NYC 2-8-2's, Mohawks and Hudsons. CPR Royal Husons plied the rails, as did CN 5700's their only 4-6-4's.
In 2011 Ford shut down and mothballed forever their assembly line plant that made the famous Crown Victoria, a staple of police fleets throughout North America. Hollywood smashed up thousands of these cars in their movies. It was the last of a type of assembly plant that was dedicated to producing one model and did not have the flexibility of changing on the fly. The last 300 of them were for an order to Saudi Arabia of all places. Standard 3 on the column at that.
Jumbo the elephant is memorialized as a full size replica standing atop a rock cliff that overlooks the highway as you enter the town limits.
Fontaine's "Folly" or "Fiasco" was there on trial runs on the Canada Southern during July of 1881.
I simply cannot believe the CASO is gone either. The line was one of the finest ever built with no grades to speak of and eliminated curvature so that there were very long straight and level stretches. It was cut and fill and tangent. It was a marvel of engineering and a high speed railroad. An ambitious fellow wanted to buy it when it was for sale in the 90's with the idea of putting truckers with their tractors and trailers onto flatcars and the truckers in coaches and sleepers while they were whisked from Detroit to Buffalo. He fell short of raising the capital.
I vividly recall incredibly long strings of baggage cars with NYC, Pennsy and Penn Central markings all in pretty shabby paint pulled by at least 3 pretty beat up E units form the same. They made good speed though, were they could anyway.
Question goes back to Overmod.
Was the PA-! the correct answer to your question regarding the Freedom Train?
Sorry for the typos ...my eyes not what they used to be and sometimes while proofreading your mind sees what it wants to see. That would be PA-1 not PA-!. Have a great 4th of July and stay safe.
Photos from Schenectady Gazette
http://www.dailygazette.com/photos/galleries/2009/feb/16/0216_capscrappix/2026/
MiningmanWas the PA-! the correct answer to your question regarding the Freedom Train?
It was. I like the uncorrected answer better.
There is something about that builder's number that is highly interesting to knowledgeable Alco PA fans and historians. What is it?
Overmod There is something about that builder's number that is highly interesting to knowledgeable Alco PA fans and historians. What is it?
It was sandwiched between the last UP PA1 (997A, b/n 74695) and the first PRR PA1 (5450A, b/n 74697). Not sure if that's what you were looking for.
MiningmanFontaine's "Folly" or "Fiasco" was there on trial runs on the Canada Southern during July of 1881.
More interesting than that. The locomotive was actually in service on the CASO through part of 1882. Scientific American had an article in 1881 (it is available on the Web on the official Scientific American site, with poor OCR) that essentially said the locomotive was proving out to be a great innovation in high-speed railroading. But, basically, only in fairly light passenger service ... and, as with the Winans friction wheel, there were maintenance problems and probably materials-science issues that made the idea unworkable in practice.
The interesting thing is that, unlike something like the Holman or Raub Central Power locomotives, the Fontaine locomotive was not a crank scam...
I simply cannot believe the CASO is gone either. The line was one of the finest ever built with no grades to speak of and eliminated curvature so that there were very long straight and level stretches. It was cut and fill and tangent. It was a marvel of engineering and a high speed railroad.
Here is an evocative memory:
(As an aside, is either of the two songs featured in this video in our list of 'Great Railroad Songs'? -- perhaps they should be.)
An ambitious fellow wanted to buy it when it was for sale in the 90's with the idea of putting truckers with their tractors and trailers onto flatcars and the truckers in coaches and sleepers while they were whisked from Detroit to Buffalo. He fell short of raising the capital.
Probably wouldn't have mattered. The road was torn up so conclusively precisely to avoid any kind of competitive use. When I was young I tended to be bitter about the premature death of the South Penn; the fate of the CASO is almost worse.
The South Penn never turned a wheel, as far as I know, but was scuttled while still in construction.
But the Canada Southern was integral to New York to Chicago via Michigran traffic and saw the Detroit Limited, the Wolverine, and the Detroit section of the Empire State EXpress. A tragic loss.
daveklepperThe South Penn never turned a wheel, as far as I know, but was scuttled while still in construction.
It was the promise, not the actuality, that captured my imagination when I was younger -- the idea that Vanderbilt's and Carnegie's money was bankrolling a super railroad not only to Pittsburgh but farther west, built to go through the mountains at high speed without all the buttonhooking and steep grades that made the PRR across the Alleghenies so slow. Part of this was the inherent belief that the Pennsylvania Turnpike was laid on the high-speed railroad grade, to railroad standards, and that's what made it such a fast road (I hadn't driven it at the time, of course, so didn't know better).
The idea was in part that the PRR would have been more inclined to make the New Main Line changes after 1928 if there had been high-speed competition in the southern part of the state. While it's possible that the South Pennsylvania would have been built into a high-speed multiple-track railroad in the same general era as the Lackawanna Cutoff, it's relatively unlikely it would have been given enough attention to be more than a two-track railroad (especially after the introduction of CTC). The severe lack of originating traffic along most of the 'southern' route, combined with its reliance on the Reading/CNJ east of Harrisburg, might have produced an interesting bridge line (and better connection to WM and the 'alphabet route') but not enough impetus to get PRR to build the New Main Line, the Horse Shoe tunnel and electrification, etc. that would have made it much faster to the West, and realized more of the capability of its later steam power.
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