For a period in the late 1950s (my example from August 1957 OG) at least one of the transcontinental sleepers was carried westbound only on the Wolverine via Detroit. The MC route is 6.3 miles longer than the ex-LS&MS line via Cleveland.
NP Eddie Rob, Dave, and All: What was the longest sleeping car line operated and what was the shortest sleeping car line operated? Ed Burns Here's the mileage of all the sleeping car lines that have been mentioned as possibly being the shortest: Louisville - Nashville (L&N) 187 mi. Peoria - St. Louis (ITC) 171.9 mi. Portland - Eugene (Oregon Electric) 142.8 mi Indianapolis - Louisville (Indiana RR {PSCI}) 117 mi. Ed, it was your question so please declare a winner so we can get this tread moving again. Mark
Rob, Dave, and All:
What was the longest sleeping car line operated and what was the shortest sleeping car line operated?
Ed Burns
Here's the mileage of all the sleeping car lines that have been mentioned as possibly being the shortest:
Louisville - Nashville (L&N) 187 mi.
Peoria - St. Louis (ITC) 171.9 mi.
Portland - Eugene (Oregon Electric) 142.8 mi
Indianapolis - Louisville (Indiana RR {PSCI}) 117 mi.
Ed, it was your question so please declare a winner so we can get this tread moving again.
Mark
Southern's TT of 9/30/17 shows a Greensboro-Raleigh sleeper, which, at 81 miles, takes the trick.
The same TT shows a Washington-San Francisco sleeper line via Montgomery, of 3,368 miles--which outstrips any other New York-Los Angeles line. This one, however, may have required a change of cars in New Orleans, since another table in the same TT shows only NY/Washington-New Orleans cars (1,368 miles).
Johnny
Deggesty Southern's TT of 9/30/17 shows a Greensboro-Raleigh sleeper, which, at 81 miles, takes the trick. The same TT shows a Washington-San Francisco sleeper line via Montgomery, of 3,368 miles--which outstrips any other New York-Los Angeles line. This one, however, may have required a change of cars in New Orleans, since another table in the same TT shows only NY/Washington-New Orleans cars (1,368 miles).
Johnny, although Ed hasn't responded, you are obviously the winner of this question so go ahead and post another one.
Johnny and all:
Sorry, but work got in the way of reviewing this forum.
At 81 miles, how slow did that train go????
Happily Retired NP-BN-BNSF from Minneapolis.
Well, Ed, in 1917 some trains were not fast. The Greensboro to Raleigh car left Greensboro at 12:35 in the morning, and arrived in Raleigh at 4:30, and could be occupied until 7:00. It may have been possible to occupy it about 10:00 in the evening, for the train with the Winston-Salem to Goldsboro car arrived in Greensboro at 9:50 in the evening. Eastbound, the car left Raleigh at 2:30 in the morning (occupy at 10:00 in the evening) and arrived in Greensboro at 6:30 (vacate then or before 8:00 (when the car from Goldsboro left for Winston-Salem?).
In the same timetable, there was a Washington-San Francisco Pullman Tourist car that went by way of Montgomery, covering 3,631 miles. This may have been the longest Pullman operated run.
New question: Taking three nights and two days, what three roads did you travel on in a Denver-Jacksonville Pullman drawing-room car?
Deggesty New question: Taking three nights and two days, what three roads did you travel on in a Denver-Jacksonville Pullman drawing-room car?
Rock Island (Denver - Kansas City)
Frisco (Kansas City - Birmingham)
Southern (Birmingham - Jacksonville)
I think this was the routing but I've misplaced the OG I would need to confirm it.
Marl
rock Islan
The Kansas Citiy - Florida Special was a thru Frisco - Southern train via Memphis and birmingham, and caarried sleepers for Miami and Tampa at one time. In addition to the R.I.he UP my poaaibly have had the Denver - Kc portion of the route. Because in some areas, the Frisco and RI competed.
Circa 1930 what was the shortest railroad to carry a Pullman car in the consist of one of its trains?
Beuford and Morehead, connectings with a much large Carolna short line on the Atlantic coast
If the premium train did not carry a sleeper, then possibly the New York Connecting RR, the jointlhy owned (PRR & NYNH&H) HG Bridge line might be in the running.
You are not counting station terminal railroads, I presume, some of which might be evfen shorter in route miles, but not in track miles.
daveklepper Beuford and Morehead, connectings with a much large Carolna short line on the Atlantic coast If the premium train did not carry a sleeper, then possibly the New York Connecting RR, the jointlhy owned (PRR & NYNH&H) HG Bridge line might be in the running. You are not counting station terminal railroads, I presume, some of which might be evfen shorter in route miles, but not in track miles.
None of these Dave. Between 1905 and 1937 the line between Beaufort and Morehead City was leased and operated by the original Norfolk Southern. In May of that year the NS dropped its lease but that short segment of line remained in use and the name, Beaufort & Morehead was adopted. AFAIK neither it or the NY Connecting operated passenger trains of their own.
You are correct in assuming I am not counting station terminal roads.
Do you consider the Central Railroad of Pennsylvania of the period, a subsidiary of CofNJ for certain lnes in PA as a seperate railroad?
Hard to think of a railroad shorter than New York connecting, about five miles from Oak Point in The Bronx to Sunnyside in Queens.
Dave, the CRRofPA didn't come into existence until in the mid-1940's. It was established by the CRRofNJ in an attempt to avoid paying NJ taxes on their lines in Pennsylvania. This ploy was struck down by the courts and in 1952 the CRRof PA was merged back into the Jersey Central.
Look further west.
The short RR that handled this sleeper was built by a large corporation solely for the purpose of accessing the major RR that the car was interchanged with.
Peoria and Pekin Union?
daveklepper Peoria and Pekin Union?
No and I don't think the P&PU ever ran any passenger trains of it own.
The road ran the 12 miles from South Bend, Indiana, to Pine, Indiana--where it connected with the Wabash, and a South Bend-Detroit drawing room-sleeping car was interchanged, using the Wabash's overnight Chicago-Detroit train.
Apparently the Singer Sewing Machine people felt they were not getting good service from any other road.
That's the one Johnny, though you didn't mention the road's name, the New Jersey, Indiana & Illinois. Those were the states where Singer plants were located. Prior to building this short connecting line Singer's South Bend plant was served only by the NYC. The connection to the Wabash gave them an alternate route and better service since the two RR's were now competing for Singer's business.
Yes, Mark, I intended telling all the interested people the name of the road--and was so taken up with the details that I forgot to let all know.
We comment from time to time on the inappropriate names of this road or that road; this road really was reaching out, was it not?
In 1920, when a traveler was going to Atlanta from points north on the Birmingham Special he had to really be alert as the train approached his destination, else he might be carried into Alabama. Why? (There were possibly two reasons; one is somewhat obscure.) Yes, this train did go through Charlotte and other points on the Southern's main line back when the name began to be used.
The only reason I can think of was because the B'ham Spcl stopped only at Peachtree Station. All other SR trains also used Terminal Station which was the roads main depot in Atlanta. Peachtree was a suburban Atlanta station 3.2 miles from the downtown Terminal Station. The change from Eastern to Central time at Atlanta might also have been a factor.
Excerpt from The Atlanta Constitution, February 9, 1918:
Petition to Stop Birmingham Special at Brookwood Unopposed
The petition of the Southern Railway to stop the Birmingham Special at the Brookwood station, instead of at the Terminal station, was heard before the state railroad commission Friday morning, and there was no opposition to the petition. Vice President W. Miller of the Southern presented the case and stated that, by making this change of stopping point, 50 minutes could be saved between Birmingham and Washington.
Excerpt from The Atlanta Constitution, June 7, 1918:
Birmingham Special Omits Terminal Stop
Beginning Sunday June 9, Southern trains Nos. 29 and 30, known as the Birmingham Special, will not enter the Terminal station but will come only to the new Peachtree terminal in Brookwood. Passengers must board or leave the train at the new station on Peachtree road. The Southern road presented a petition to the railroad commission some time ago asking permission to issue this order but the commission refused. After the Government’s seizure of the railroads the regional director asked the commission to reconsider its decision. The commission did so and granted the road its request.
It seems the train also avoided Broad Street Station in Philadelphia.
Right on, Mark!
The other reason for taking care, which is somewhat obscure, was that the people of Atlanta referred to the station as "the Brookwood station," and if an Atlantan told a coming visitor that he needed to get off at the Brookwood station, he could easily miss it, since the trainmen announced that the Peachtree Station was the next stop. When I was in graduate school, there was an article in the Atlanta Constitution about the station, complete with an account of traveler who missed his stop because he had been told to get off at the Brookwood station; He may have been able to get off at Austell, and take the next train back--which in 1931 went to the Terminal station; in 1920, it was the Birmingham Special.
In the Southern's July 4, 1920, timetable, there is a note on page 61, "Passengers using trains 29 and 30, to and from Atlanta, especially those to and from North Atlanta, will find it a great convenience to use the Peachtree Station." A great convenience indeed!--and not a word emphasizing that it was the only station stop in Atlanta for this train! The June 15, 1931, timetable does have a note on page 61, "TRAINS 29 and 30 operate into and out of Peachtree Station, Atlanta, Georgia, only." That note is a little more helpful.
For those of us not familiar with the track layout in Atlanta, I will add that the Terminal Station was not on the Washington-Birmingham main line, but on the Chattanooga-Brunswick line, which made a backup move necessary for the Southerner, until some time in 1968, when the practice changed to moving the engine to the other end and turning the coach seats in Atlanta--until the Terminal Station was abandoned and the Peachtree Station became the Atlanta station.
There was a time when the Southerner did not stop at the Peachtree Station.
In its representation in OG's as early as 1918 and at least as late as 1930 this obscure road claimed to have another 50 miles of line under construction. This was a totally spurious claim and in fact construction of this purported extension was never begun. What was the railroad and to what city was it supposedly building?
To think this railroad would even consider building the extension it claimed to have under construction defies all logic. A major railroad already had a direct mainline between the two cities it would have served and that road and an affiliate would have been the shortlines only source of interchange traffic.
If this extension had ever been built it would have taken a circuitous route to avoid a major natural obstacle that lay in a direct path from the existing end of track and the city which it was supposedly going to reach.
This was originally a logging road but even after it became a common carrier transporting logs was about its only reason for existence. Logging ended in the area it served in the late 1920's and by 1931 the railroad was abandoned. Right to the end it claimed to have additional trackage under construction.
Look South!
I think I owe everyone an apology for asking a question about such an obscure and insignificant railroad. What aroused my interest was their repeated claim to having another 50 miles of line under construction even after the onset of the great depression.The road also proclaimed itself to be the xxxx Route where the xxxx's were the name of a vast swamp.
KCSfan I think I owe everyone an apology for asking a question about such an obscure and insignificant railroad. What aroused my interest was their repeated claim to having another 50 miles of line under construction even after the onset of the great depression.The road also proclaimed itself to be the xxxx Route where the xxxx's were the name of a vast swamp. Mark
I'll try the Waycross & Southern - The Okefenoke Route
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Bingo we have a winner. Light up your cigar and ask a new question.
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