I agree - ZO should take it from here. BTW the UP sets were apparently drawbar-connected - as far as I can find out all the others had cnventional couplers even if they had wide end openings.
Next question -
Traditionally, passenger train service to Florida increased in the winter months. Trains and sleeping car lines which ended at Jacksonville during the spring, summer and fall months were extended during the winter months to points on the east and west coasts of Florida. But there was at least one sleeping car line that bucked the trend, in that its line was extended in the summer months and returned to a shorter run in the winter months. Name the off season and on season sleeping car line and which train was it carried on to and from Florida (the car was carried on connecting trains south of Jacksonville.)
My guess it was the Royal Palm, Southern and NYC, from Detroit to Jacksonville, throught to Miami via the FEC in the off-season only.
daveklepper My guess it was the Royal Palm, Southern and NYC, from Detroit to Jacksonville, throught to Miami via the FEC in the off-season only.
Nope....There were time periods when the Detroit-Jacksonville sleeper(s) on the Royal Palm was extended to Miami, but the majority of the time it was during the winter season. There were also time periods when the Miami sleeper ran year round.
The sleeping car line I'm thinking of consistently expanded in the summer and contracted in the winter.
I think Dave is on to it. I know the winter season New Royal Palm carried a Detroit - Miami sleeper. The Royal Palm definitely carried a Detroit - Miami sleeper in the off-season. This car may well have been taken off entirely or run only as far as Jacksonville during the winter months but I don't know that for sure.
If that's not the right route, then it was probably the Chicago - Miami and West Coast sleepers carried on the IC's Seminole in the off season and on the Sunchaser in the winter months.
Mark
KCSfan I think Dave is on to it. I know the winter season New Royal Palm carried a Detroit - Miami sleeper. The Royal Palm definitely carried a Detroit - Miami sleeper in the off-season. This car may well have been taken off entirely or run only as far as Jacksonville during the winter months but I don't know that for sure. If that's not the right route, then it was probably the Chicago - Miami and West Coast sleepers carried on the IC's Seminole in the off season and on the Sunchaser in the winter months. Mark
It wasn't the Royal Palm or the Seminole/Sunchaser. You are right, there were instances when a Detroit-Miami sleeper off the New Royal Palm would be transferred to the Royal Palm, etc., but the sleeper line I'm thinking about operated only on one train, and existed for several decades, except during the WWII years. I must say that there were some years in which an additional Pullman would be added to the sleeping car line that would operate on the summer line instead of lengthening the route of the off season line to the summer season line. ( I hope that makes sense.)
My next guess is that it would be one of the sleepers carried on the Palmland or the Sunland, the Seaboard's secondary trains, possibly one from Washington or from the Hampton Roads area (the Seabord did not run into Norfolk directly, and I am not sure that Newport News was the terminal, even though I used it). I know the Seabord regularly provided overnight service between Jax and Miami (one time or another rode overnight both on Seabord and on the ACL route that replaced the FEC service). The extension to Miami was intended to replace loss of sleepers either from the midwest or elsewhere along the east coast.
Dave, Seaboard did not enter Newport News, which is on the north side of Hampton Roads; Portsmouth was the Seaboard terminal, and Newport News was the C&O stop.
Johnny
daveklepper My next guess is that it would be one of the sleepers carried on the Palmland or the Sunland, the Seaboard's secondary trains, possibly one from Washington or from the Hampton Roads area (the Seabord did not run into Norfolk directly, and I am not sure that Newport News was the terminal, even though I used it). I know the Seabord regularly provided overnight service between Jax and Miami (one time or another rode overnight both on Seabord and on the ACL route that replaced the FEC service). The extension to Miami was intended to replace loss of sleepers either from the midwest or elsewhere along the east coast.
Nope, the line I'm thinking about consistently changed its southern terminus between the summer season and the winter season.
Another hint: Supposedly, passengers were riding this sleeping car line for the same reason people took the Bar Harbor or a comparable train in the summer months..
New York - West Palm Beach - ACL's Havana Spcl. Just a SWAG.
KCSfan New York - West Palm Beach - ACL's Havana Spcl. Just a SWAG. Mark
Nice try but nope.....
Here's a hint - this sleeping car line did not reach the northeast.
Could it be that the IC's Seminol, which regularly ran only to Jacksonville, had a summer sleeper extension to Miami for a regular connection to cruise ships? The extension to Miami would be on the FEC and in one of the regular trains from the NE.
daveklepper Could it be that the IC's Seminol, which regularly ran only to Jacksonville, had a summer sleeper extension to Miami for a regular connection to cruise ships? The extension to Miami would be on the FEC and in one of the regular trains from the NE.
Nope....The Seminole had Miami cars on an irregular basis. Sometimes during the winter season, sometimes during the summer and occasionally year round. Even during some time periods the complete train ran to Miami.
Another hint: you will not see this Pullman car line in ACL nor SAL timetables.
Was this a Kansas City - Miami car that ran in the KC-Fla Special over the Frisco, Southern and FEC? However, I haven't been able to find if this car ran to all the way to Miami only during the summer months.
KCSfan Was this a Kansas City - Miami car that ran in the KC-Fla Special over the Frisco, Southern and FEC? However, I haven't been able to find if this car ran to all the way to Miami only during the summer months. Mark
No this wasn't the car line. The KC-Miami sleeper was a winter car line until it was dropped during WWII. After the war, it became a year round car until 1954, when it reverted to a winter-season only schedule.
My previous hint still stands. Another hint is: the railroad that this car operated on at one time operated a full northeast-Florida service. The train that the mystery sleeping car line operated on was what was left of this railroad's Florida service.
I come up with the Skyland Special, a Southern Railrway train from Asheville NC to Jacksonville. The SR route from Washington to Jacksonville via Charlotte isn't all that much longer than the Seaboard's route via Columbia. In 1957 it drew an 8S 5DBR rebuilt heavywight.
Asheville, like Bar Harbor, was a place to cool down when the weather got hot...
rcdrye I come up with the Skyland Special, a Southern Railrway train from Asheville NC to Jacksonville. The SR route from Washington to Jacksonville via Charlotte isn't all that much longer than the Seaboard's route via Columbia. In 1957 it drew an 8S 5DBR rebuilt heavywight. Asheville, like Bar Harbor, was a place to cool down when the weather got hot...
What you came up with is the right answer. The Skyland Special was an overnight Asheville-Jacksonville run of the Southern which handled an Asheville-Jacksonville sleeper which was extended to Miami via the FEC during the summer months. This service started in the late 1920's and was suspended during the WWII years. Service resumed in 1947, but the Asheville-Jacksonville sleeper remained and an additional sleeper operated Asheville-Miami during the summer. Through Miami service ended in 1949.
A direct ancestor of this service was a through Cincinnati-Jacksonville via Asheville Pullman run which provided an alternate Cincinnati-Jacksonville service that ran via Chattanooga and Atlanta.
As mentioned in one of my hints, the Southern operated a northeast-Florida through train service going back to around 1900. Its seasonal winter tourist train was the Southern's Palm Limited, running to St. Augustine. The SR pulled out of the northeast-Florida market in 1914.
Rcdrye, you get the next question......
A daily passenger train from the midwest to Florida had a long-lasting power pool. The railroad most associated with this train liked its trains to be painted the same from end to end. One of the other participating carriers supplied two E8s to the pool, and painted them in train colors, even using the other railroad's logo on the nose, but with its own name in the logo. Name the two railroads, the third participating railroad, and the train.
Whoever gets this right is free to get away from passenger trains and Florida. It just happens that there's lots of material for good questions in those topics!
I believe that would be the IC's Seminole. The E8's painted in IC colors belonged to the IC and the CofG. The third participating railroad was the ACL.
You are correct. C of G 811 and 812 were painted in IC colors and clearly lettered Central of Georgia across the green diamond. The pool lasted almost to the end of the Seminole's operation, ending in late 1968 or early 1969. Even after the pool officially ended and the units were repainted, they were still used on the Seminole (and the City of Miami) and got all the way to Chicago once in a while.
Rob
New question. These cars were sleepers but definitely not Pullmans. They had 18 open sections and could accommodate 72 passengers. What name was given to these cars, what railroad(s) operated them, and when were they phased out of regular service?
This sounds like the canadian Colonist Car. Both CP and CN had fleets of these, some rebuilt from wooden sleepers, some purpose-built. They were still in service up until and shortly after World War II, after which they were gradually phased out as demand for colonist sections dropped off and tourist and standard sections became more available. I suspect that at least some of them were converted to MOW bunk cars after they were taken out of service. I couldn't find a final date of operation, but they were definitely gone by the mid 1950s. By all accounts the older ones were pretty spartan, though some of the later ones apparently approached tourist sleepers in furnishings.
Colonist cars is correct. They had a stove at one end where passengers could cook meals. No bedding was provided - passengers either brought their own or could rent pillows and blankets from the railroad. Beginning in the 1930's many of these cars were converted to coaches, MoW cars, as you mention, and even to parlor cars. Those that remained saw extensive use in WW2 as troop sleepers. They were taken out of regular service in either 1952 or '53 and are not shown in the equipment sections of any CP or CN trains in 1954 OG's. The last two CN colonist cars were not retired until 1962 though I suspect they had not actually run in service for some years prior to then.
The CB&Q's California Zephyr is well known as a joint service with D&RGW And WP. There were three other joint services among the Zephyr family, two interline, one shared service. For extra credit, one of the Zephyrs ran a substantial part of its route on trackage rights.
The C&S/FW&D Texas Zephyr doesn't count.
I believe what you are calling "one shared service" would be the Zephyr-Rocket which ran between St.Louis and Minneapolis. StL-Burlington on the CB&Q and Burlington-Minneapolis on the Rock Island.
The interline trains were:
The Ozark State Zephyr between St.Louis and Kansas City. StL-Mexico on the CB&Q and Mexico-KC on the Alton (163 miles making it the train that "ran a substantial part of its route on trackage rights".) The Ozark State was replaced by the Gen.Pershing Zephhyr in 1939.
The Sam Houston Zephyr between Ft. Worth and Houston. FtW-Teague on the Burlington (FW&D) and Teague to Houston on the B-RI.
One of the interline service was the Zephyr-Rocket. Sam Houston was the shared, and the Gen Pershing was the trackage rights winner. The other interline sevice was added late, and ran over tracks shared by another Zephyr, but in trains of another railroad.
I will say that this would be the through cars to Colorado Springs handled on the DZ to Denver and by Rio Grande between Denver and Colorado Springs.
That's the last of the interlines. Part of the D&RGW route (Royal Gorge) was shared with the C&S/AT&SF joint line used by the Texas Zephyr. If I remember correctly the DZ's cars landed at the D&RGW station westbound, and left from the AT&SF station eastbound.
Mark (KCSFan) still is the overall winner and should take the next one.
This streetcar line ended over water about 6/10 mile from the shore. Name the operator, the car line and the year this service was discontinued.
It must be a streetcar line that ran out on a pier. Or was the body of water inland from the shore? If its is the first in might be something near Rockaway Beach, Long Island, or possiblyi the Beachmont line of the Eastern Masaschusettes Street Railway, formerly Bay State Electric, probably abandoned when the whole Chelsie Division was sold to the Boston Elevated around 1936.
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