A quick follow-up...one thing to keep in mind is that United States Steel owns / owned a lot of everything regarding steel and iron ore. I'd guess maybe half the iron mining companies in Minnesota's Mesabi Range were owned by US Steel. Their ore was hauled by the Duluth Missabe and Iron Range Ry. - also owned US Steel. (non US Steel companies used Great Northern.) The ore would be loaded into ore boats owned by US Steel. The ore would be unloaded at docks they owned in the lower great lakes, and would be shipped to their steel mills by other railroads they owned, like the Bessemer & Lake Erie in Ohio or the Elgin, Joliet & Eastern in Chicagoland.
Ford had something similar, they owned ore mines in Minnesota and quite a few in Upper Michigan, they shipped ore in their own boats to Detroit, made their own steel there and used the steel to make cars.
JanOlov wrote: I see thanks. So no railroad had their own ore docks then?About the mail trains, was there anyone that rose above the rest? I mean, most have probably heard of the Uganda Mail, supposed to be famous mailtrain. Could they sometimes have the right of way over the crack limiteds?
I see thanks.
So no railroad had their own ore docks then?
About the mail trains, was there anyone that rose above the rest? I mean, most have probably heard of the Uganda Mail, supposed to be famous mailtrain. Could they sometimes have the right of way over the crack limiteds?
I don't know about the receiving end, but iron ore railroads own their own docks. The Missabe built multiple ore docks in Two Harbors and Duluth MN, Great Northern built several ore docks at Superior/Allouez Wisconsin, Northern Pacific built an ore dock next to the GN ones that for many years they shared with the Soo Line. Later Erie Mining Co. and Reserve Mining in Minnesota built their own ore docks for taconite pellet loading.
In recent years, "all rail" ore trains have become fairly common, but it generally was more economical to haul ore by boat. A typical ore train would run around 150 cars, it would take maybe 8-10 trains (or more) to fill an ore boat. Plus 24' ore cars weren't really built for long distance travel, and railroads needed to be sure to have enough empty cars around to serve the various mines - they probably didn't want to send their ore cars across the country. I suppose it would be hard to find a back load too, although some ore cars have been used to haul coal...although coal usually arrived in Duluth / Superior by boat.
Great Northern ran silk trains from Seattle to St.Paul in the 20's-30's that were often given top priority due to the fragile nature of the cargo, it wasn't unheard of for the Oriental Limited or later the Empire Builder to go "in the hole" to allow a silk train to pass.
The famous passenger trains often ran in multiple sections, and according to postal regulaions, mail had to be carried in the first section.
Dan
In Philadelphia the Pennsy and the Reading each had thier own ore unloading facilities. And add to that mix the US Steel plant just up river had its own unloading docks.
But to answer your original question as to why load the boats, only to unload them onto other trains... That was done for cost. Even with all the extra handling, the cost of the unloaders and all the rest, the lake boats are still much less expensive than an all rail trip.
Let's not overlook the Fast Mail's little brother - the express / merchandise runs!!!The Pennsy, New York Central, MoPac, SP/Cotton Belt and Union Pacific {among many others} ran dedicated merchandise trains - on VERY tight schedules - in an attempt to win back less-than-carload {LCL} traffic that had been bled off by the emerging trucking industry during the late 1940's and early '50's.
By far the most famous example was Cotton Belt's original Blue Streak Merchandise{r}; it's original intent was the movement of expedited LCL freight. As the LCL business "hit the rubber" and moved off the rails, the SSW expanded the BSM's "mission statement" to include ANY time-sensitive freight. Still quite clear in my memory are the times my brother and I would railfan along the SSW-MP jointly-owned Chester Subdivision, usually basing our camp just south of Dupo. The BSM made frequent appearances, and was easily recognizable for the 4-7 big SD's on the point, and for the long cuts of PFE/UPFE reefers in the consist. And in two separate instances, the BSM was an ad-hoc unit train; nothing but a solid string of reefers.
SSW's parent Southern Pacific also had it's own version of the BSM briefly - The Overnighter. A typical fast LCL train of the day, it boasted uniquely painted boxcars, and usually drew passenger power {both steam and diesel} to ensure an expedited schedule. Like all other LCL trains, save the BSM, SP's Overnighter didn't survive the 1950's.
And on a final note, I've long been a fan of the LCL trains, as my avatar and signature line here indicate. The railroads actually pioneered the "get it there yesterday" concept long before UPS, FedEx, et. al even existed. The LCL legacy has had sporadic revivals since the original mid-20th-century salad days; Santa Fe's Super C, C&NW's Falcons, the old Central Vermont Rocket; and the leagacy has even evolved and grown - witness Norfolk Southern's Triple Crown RoadRailer subsidiary.
Many Railroads operated Fast Mail trains, the Great Northern, Chicago Burlington & Quincy and Santa Fe come immediatly to mind.
Most of these fast mail trains operated only with a rider coach or two on the rear. In the case of the Santa Fe the coach operated only across the state of Kansas. These trains were among the fastest scheduled trains on the RR. They stopped frequently to unload the mail and express often exceeding the time allowed for a particular stop than had to run like a bat out of **** to get to the next stop. All of these trains carried working mail cars as well.
In the last few years of the GN Fast Mail it ran combined with the Western Star complete with streamlined Observation. Unfortunately the Observation operated mid-train as the Western Star part of the combined train was mid train. The makeup was generally working mail and express cars behind the power than the passenger equipment of the Western Star and finally storage mail cars on the rear. At some stations it was necessary to stop twice and even three times. During the heavy Christmas Mail season the two trains were operated separatetly.
The Empire Builder, Super Chief and Denver Zephyr the premier trains of those three railroads also operated working Post Office cars. I know many other railroads operated Fast Mail trains but these three I am most familiar with.
Hope this helps Passengerfan
Cheers lads... appreciated!
Those Huelett's, are they still standing or are they dismantled?
the Whiskey Island ore docks in Cleveland where built by the PRR i believe i know the old ore docks (C & P Docks) were Pennsy's......the Pennsy also had docks in Sandusky,Ashtabula and maybe Erie Pa........i remember seeing the Whiskey Is Huelett Unloaders working in the early 80's......that was a sight
Baltimore had a bit of Ore I think it was the PRR that offered it with thier dock. Im not clear on the precise work but I can tell you that the B&O tried to load coal with thier dock and set records for speedy loading.
The seaport that offers the fastest service for the least cost to the Shipping Lines will get the business.
Cheers mate
But wasn't there a lot of hassle because of this, with all the different railroads trying to get access to the ore docks etc.?
Jan - Even though many of the famous name trains would have an express mail car in the consist, I don't believe the railroads actually gave a name to the mail trains. They would normally just assign a number to it, and the railroad men would dub it "the fast mail"...AMTRAK still runs solid mail trains up and down the NEC.
The Great Lakes freeze up, and the steel mills in the rust belt need a steady diet of taconite pellets to run year round, hence the need for the big Lake boats and storage facilities. It is actually a shorter distance by water...
O. Winston Link actually has a museum dedicated to him in Roanoke, Virginia.
We've all heard of 20th Century Limited, Empire Builder, Olympian and what not, right? We also know the importance of mail coming and being delivered in time and hopefully at the right destination. Which were the Century, Builder and Olympian of the US Mail trains back in the day? Which were the hottest ones?
One of the Milwaukee's famous BiPolars tows the Olympian backwards towards Tacoma Washington in this scene from the 30's.
Ore trains..... Is it true that I remember seing somewhere that ore trains were loaded at the mines and unloaded on to Lake Erie boats, only to unloaded on to new ore trains just some x amount of miles away further down the line? Why all this hassle, why didn't they keep it on the railroad? How did the ore traffic work up there in the ore district? How many railroads carried ore?
DM&IR ore dock.
Now just a question for fun here.... Is there a sort of "Railroad Hall Of Fame" for railroad photographers? We all have our favorites, who would you like to see in this if there isn't such a thing?
Richard H. Kindig, seen here on the right on his 90th birthday on February 13, 2006.
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