OvermodThe roof hatch is probably close to being blocked in in the GCT tunnel, but more difficult is negotiating the roof to where you can be sure of climbing down in 'post-accident' conditions. A nose door would be at least technically protected by the anticollision arrangements. It would be relatively simple to arrange full FRA impact compliance for one of the windshield panes while allowing it to be 'ejected' from the inside after an accident. Providing the glazing with a beveled mount, putting a 'mating' cushined surface in the frame, and locking it in place with a pull-out strip as for car safety windows would be one approach. Presumably there would be some sort of emergency rope ladder stowed in the cab to aid "climbing down"...
It would be relatively simple to arrange full FRA impact compliance for one of the windshield panes while allowing it to be 'ejected' from the inside after an accident. Providing the glazing with a beveled mount, putting a 'mating' cushined surface in the frame, and locking it in place with a pull-out strip as for car safety windows would be one approach. Presumably there would be some sort of emergency rope ladder stowed in the cab to aid "climbing down"...
Editor Emeritus, This Week at Amtrak
The roof hatch is probably close to being blocked in in the GCT tunnel, but more difficult is negotiating the roof to where you can be sure of climbing down in 'post-accident' conditions. A nose door would be at least technically protected by the anticollision arrangements.
rdamon Edit: Finding this - it looks like the non-engineer's window is an exit.
Edit: Finding this - it looks like the non-engineer's window is an exit.
blue streak 1Advantages of these units. -- If Amtrak thinks that if it possible regular or emergency service to Grand Central Terminal is contemplated from Albany or New Haven then these units will be needed. Also if MNRR west side service is contemplated to NYP with onlythe present fleet then 3rd rail will be needed the whole distance.
A complication is that MNRR and LIRR(NYPenn) us two different types of 3rd rail. MNRR underrunning shoes, LIRR overrunning shoes. New Haven had adjustable shoes, but I think just on locos, and they weren't foolproof from what I hear
Is the roof hatch not adequate? - Aside from the challenge of climbing up and then down, of course.
Edit: Finding this - it looks like the non-engineer's window is an exit
https://www.highspeed-rail.org/Documents/Annual%20Meetings/2021/9.%20Metro-North%20Railroad%20Siemens%20NGEC%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%202021%20-%20Final.pdf
zugmann Overmod They'd damn well have to be. Isn't that only if they are to go to GCT?
Overmod They'd damn well have to be.
Isn't that only if they are to go to GCT?
I still haven't quite figured out why the New York section of the Lake Shore Limited wasn't run out of Penn on the Empire Connector during the time we saw it suspended for 'nose door' issues.
zugmann oltmannd I just want people to stop doing complicated, new things when simple, proven and better ways already exist. I mean, I get the sentiment, but where would we be if that idea was followed throughout history?
oltmannd I just want people to stop doing complicated, new things when simple, proven and better ways already exist.
I mean, I get the sentiment, but where would we be if that idea was followed throughout history?
Complicated new things rarely last if there's a simple, new alternative.
New has to be better.
Hydrogen-fuel cell? Maybe we can talk...
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
OvermodThey'd damn well have to be.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmannAre they going to be equipped with the emergency nose hatches?
blue streak 1Advantages of these units. -- If Amtrak thinks that if it possible regular or emergency service to Grand Central Terminal is contemplated from Albany or New Haven then these units will be needed.
Are they going to be equipped with the emergency nose hatches?
Agree that all the disadvantages noted previously are correct. As well these units will be captive to Empire service with no way to operate on the NEC unless turning on diesel once exiting the NYP tunnels both ways. As well I believe that installation of overhead CAT will be less expensive than 3rd rail. Unless the power stations, feeder cables, and buildings for NYC RR DC service are still in place and operative probably 4 new DC sub stations will be needed. However, highly unlikely NYC RR substations still in place. Where if using ALC-Es 2 AC sub stations one at each end of new CAT would be all that is needed and emergency standby connection to NYP 25 Hz might be possible.
Advantages of these units. -- If Amtrak thinks that if it possible regular or emergency service to Grand Central Terminal is contemplated from Albany or New Haven then these units will be needed. Also if MNRR west side service is contemplated to NYP with onlythe present fleet then 3rd rail will be needed the whole distance. If MNRR will plan to use only M-8 type units they will be able go to NYP under wire. 3rd rail will be needed some distance from the West side access tunnel. At present the M-8 type cannot have a 25 Hz transformer due to M-8s becoming overweight. But that M-8 type can also travel on the Hell Gate bridge route allowing West side to East side thru trains. The present 60 Hz cars are OK. At present the weight limit of the Park avenue viaducts precludes M-8s with a 25 Hz transformer installed. However a contract to overhaul the viaducts has been awarded to eliminate that problem..
I did mean ALC-42s. But another site a maintenance person says the ACS-64s do not play nice. As I understand there are 3 differet software packages. Any of those 3 will not MU the other 2. As well the ACS' will not MU with any Siemens diesel at present.
D.CarletonACS-42?
Does he mean Chargers instead of Sprinters?
ACS-42?
blue streak 1You may have pointed out the many problems that Amtrak is having with the ACS-42s
I don't see it as a lot of problems. They are adapting a European design for American use, there are going to be some differences in software needed as well as probably some components that do not have the resilence in the United States as they might have in Europe, given the different track standards and operating practices.
More and more of the new locomotives operation is dependent on software I have observed. You just cannot test for everything with software you need to see what a normal production work assignment produces that you have to react to. Which translates to bugs that need to be worked out.
Before EMD was sold off they used to have issues with new locomotives when they applied a lot of new technology at once with the rollout of the new locomotive type. Seemed to be the rule rather than the exception with EMD. Especially in the early days when Diesels were new and replacing steam locomotives.
Amtrak Siemens locomotives probably spend a lot higher proportion of their lives in a idle state vs their overseas counterparts. Overseas they tend to keep the passenger trains moving constantly.
oltmannd I just want people to stop doing complicated, new things when simple, proven and better ways already exist. Good chance, in the long run, it'd be cheaper, too.
I just want people to stop doing complicated, new things when simple, proven and better ways already exist.
Good chance, in the long run, it'd be cheaper, too.
You may have pointed out the many problems that Amtrak is having with the ALC-42s
MidlandMikeI doubt the bridges/tunnels/cover-overs built on the NYC West Side Line were constructed with catenary clearance in mind. Also the P32 DM's are eminently qualified to do their job, with minimally extra electronics to get them the last mile into NYP. Whereas the diesel/catenary dual modes are two full locomotives under one hood, priced accordingly, and must carry each other's weight around.
D.CarletonThere are maybe a dozen roundtrips to and through Rensselaer; not really enough to justify full electrification. How about a compromise: string wire as far as Spuyten Duyvil. That way no retched fumes in the boroughs and the diesel/catenary dual-modes could be used.
I doubt the bridges/tunnels/cover-overs built on the NYC West Side Line were constructed with catenary clearance in mind. Also the P32 DM's are eminently qualified to do their job, with minimally extra electronics to get them the last mile into NYP. Whereas the diesel/catenary dual modes are two full locomotives under one hood, priced accordingly, and must carry each other's weight around.
charlie hebdo oltmannd Why not just hang catenary all the way to Rensselaer? In the long run, faster and cheaper.....and you can probably have it done before the first Airos finish testing. Of course, but that would be the rational plan. Perhaps someone should compare costs for setting up catenary in Europe compared to costs here?
oltmannd Why not just hang catenary all the way to Rensselaer? In the long run, faster and cheaper.....and you can probably have it done before the first Airos finish testing.
Of course, but that would be the rational plan. Perhaps someone should compare costs for setting up catenary in Europe compared to costs here?
oltmannd MidlandMike CMStPnP C - Diesel and Battery Power for use via Hudson River Tunnels The Deisel/battery units are for the Empire Service that is all diesel along the west side of Manhattan until it arrives at Penn Station and does not use the Hudson Tunnels. Not sure if they use the East River Tunnels to Sunnyside Yard. I wonder why they just don't use 3rd rail like the present duel service locos. Why not just hang catenary all the way to Rensselaer? In the long run, faster and cheaper.....and you can probably have it done before the first Airos finish testing.
MidlandMike CMStPnP C - Diesel and Battery Power for use via Hudson River Tunnels The Deisel/battery units are for the Empire Service that is all diesel along the west side of Manhattan until it arrives at Penn Station and does not use the Hudson Tunnels. Not sure if they use the East River Tunnels to Sunnyside Yard. I wonder why they just don't use 3rd rail like the present duel service locos.
CMStPnP C - Diesel and Battery Power for use via Hudson River Tunnels
The Deisel/battery units are for the Empire Service that is all diesel along the west side of Manhattan until it arrives at Penn Station and does not use the Hudson Tunnels. Not sure if they use the East River Tunnels to Sunnyside Yard. I wonder why they just don't use 3rd rail like the present duel service locos.
Why not just hang catenary all the way to Rensselaer? In the long run, faster and cheaper.....and you can probably have it done before the first Airos finish testing.
oltmanndI just want people to stop doing complicated, new things when simple, proven and better ways already exist.
BaltACD D.Carleton oltmannd MidlandMike CMStPnP C - Diesel and Battery Power for use via Hudson River Tunnels The Deisel/battery units are for the Empire Service that is all diesel along the west side of Manhattan until it arrives at Penn Station and does not use the Hudson Tunnels. Not sure if they use the East River Tunnels to Sunnyside Yard. I wonder why they just don't use 3rd rail like the present duel service locos. Why not just hang catenary all the way to Rensselaer? In the long run, faster and cheaper.....and you can probably have it done before the first Airos finish testing. At the very least the wire currently runs through to the end of the Empire Connection tunnel. They could obviate an entire subclass by using the overhead dual modes on Empire Corridor services. How easy it is to spend Other Peoples Money!
D.Carleton oltmannd MidlandMike CMStPnP C - Diesel and Battery Power for use via Hudson River Tunnels The Deisel/battery units are for the Empire Service that is all diesel along the west side of Manhattan until it arrives at Penn Station and does not use the Hudson Tunnels. Not sure if they use the East River Tunnels to Sunnyside Yard. I wonder why they just don't use 3rd rail like the present duel service locos. Why not just hang catenary all the way to Rensselaer? In the long run, faster and cheaper.....and you can probably have it done before the first Airos finish testing. At the very least the wire currently runs through to the end of the Empire Connection tunnel. They could obviate an entire subclass by using the overhead dual modes on Empire Corridor services.
At the very least the wire currently runs through to the end of the Empire Connection tunnel. They could obviate an entire subclass by using the overhead dual modes on Empire Corridor services.
How easy it is to spend Other Peoples Money!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
zugmann blue streak 1 Airo ??? Will it sound too much like Amtrak's Arrow?? Would it matter if it does?
blue streak 1 Airo ??? Will it sound too much like Amtrak's Arrow??
Would it matter if it does?
Maybe there is another relation
https://airobrands.com/
MidlandMikeEmpire Service is the corridor across NY State via Albany. I believe the Empire Connection is that part of the route which is the newer connection between the old West Side Line and Penn Station.
Interestingly, perhaps, most of the West Side line was third-rail electrified as 'rebuiilt' (with the massive tunnels under Riverside Park and the viaducts replacing street running). When the line was reconfigured, it could have had NYC-style third rail re-installed to let the dual-modes like the P32DC operate arbitrarily close to NYP... one of the problems being that many of the tracks in Penn Station itself require overrunning LIRR-style third rail, and while automatic shoes are possible there is a long, and terrible, history involving various amounts of fire, smoke, confusion and delay concerning application of third rail to diesel powered trains.
Using battery capability for the unelectrified stretch, and simple dual-mode underrunning-contact as already extensively built for Metro-North to minimize actual diesel consumption, would be a reasonable approach to me.
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