https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3-EIFeM27U
Beautiful train, beautiful presentation... utterly let down by the spokesman who comes across as a cross between Caspar Milquetoast and Mortimer Snerd.
I'll be looking forward to the Airotrains -- and to what Siemens doubles down with in bilevels after 2024.
The airotrains are intended for NEC mostly to replace the Northeast Direct service with Amfleet they come in 4 configurations (designated by letters).
A - Electric for pure NEC operation.
B - Diesel Loco and Electric Power car for dual NEC and non-NEC operation.
C - Diesel and Battery Power for use via Hudson River Tunnels
D - Entirely Diesel, replacing the Talgos in the Pacific NW Corridor on the Cascades Service.
CMStPnPC - Diesel and Battery Power for use via Hudson River Tunnels
The Deisel/battery units are for the Empire Service that is all diesel along the west side of Manhattan until it arrives at Penn Station and does not use the Hudson Tunnels. Not sure if they use the East River Tunnels to Sunnyside Yard. I wonder why they just don't use 3rd rail like the present duel service locos.
When did they stop calling it 'Empire Connection'? I'm further behind the times than I thought!
I expect the battery function to be useful in the final approach over the Empire Connection and at the actual platforms in Penn Station now that the west end is being roofed over, as well as a prospective connection to Sunnyside rather than going to the Hudson-side yard. I agree with you that the engines should have at least a charging dual shoe (either overrunning or underrunning; you get both on the Empire Connection service)
OvermodWhen did they stop calling it 'Empire Connection'? I'm further behind the times than I thought! ...
Empire Service is the corridor across NY State via Albany. I believe the Empire Connection is that part of the route which is the newer connection between the old West Side Line and Penn Station.
Airo ??? Will it sound too much like Amtrak's Arrow??
blue streak 1Airo ??? Will it sound too much like Amtrak's Arrow??
Would it matter if it does?
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
MidlandMikeEmpire Service is the corridor across NY State via Albany. I believe the Empire Connection is that part of the route which is the newer connection between the old West Side Line and Penn Station.
Interestingly, perhaps, most of the West Side line was third-rail electrified as 'rebuiilt' (with the massive tunnels under Riverside Park and the viaducts replacing street running). When the line was reconfigured, it could have had NYC-style third rail re-installed to let the dual-modes like the P32DC operate arbitrarily close to NYP... one of the problems being that many of the tracks in Penn Station itself require overrunning LIRR-style third rail, and while automatic shoes are possible there is a long, and terrible, history involving various amounts of fire, smoke, confusion and delay concerning application of third rail to diesel powered trains.
Using battery capability for the unelectrified stretch, and simple dual-mode underrunning-contact as already extensively built for Metro-North to minimize actual diesel consumption, would be a reasonable approach to me.
MidlandMike CMStPnP C - Diesel and Battery Power for use via Hudson River Tunnels The Deisel/battery units are for the Empire Service that is all diesel along the west side of Manhattan until it arrives at Penn Station and does not use the Hudson Tunnels. Not sure if they use the East River Tunnels to Sunnyside Yard. I wonder why they just don't use 3rd rail like the present duel service locos.
CMStPnP C - Diesel and Battery Power for use via Hudson River Tunnels
Why not just hang catenary all the way to Rensselaer? In the long run, faster and cheaper.....and you can probably have it done before the first Airos finish testing.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
zugmann blue streak 1 Airo ??? Will it sound too much like Amtrak's Arrow?? Would it matter if it does?
blue streak 1 Airo ??? Will it sound too much like Amtrak's Arrow??
Maybe there is another relation
https://airobrands.com/
oltmannd MidlandMike CMStPnP C - Diesel and Battery Power for use via Hudson River Tunnels The Deisel/battery units are for the Empire Service that is all diesel along the west side of Manhattan until it arrives at Penn Station and does not use the Hudson Tunnels. Not sure if they use the East River Tunnels to Sunnyside Yard. I wonder why they just don't use 3rd rail like the present duel service locos. Why not just hang catenary all the way to Rensselaer? In the long run, faster and cheaper.....and you can probably have it done before the first Airos finish testing.
Editor Emeritus, This Week at Amtrak
D.Carleton oltmannd MidlandMike CMStPnP C - Diesel and Battery Power for use via Hudson River Tunnels The Deisel/battery units are for the Empire Service that is all diesel along the west side of Manhattan until it arrives at Penn Station and does not use the Hudson Tunnels. Not sure if they use the East River Tunnels to Sunnyside Yard. I wonder why they just don't use 3rd rail like the present duel service locos. Why not just hang catenary all the way to Rensselaer? In the long run, faster and cheaper.....and you can probably have it done before the first Airos finish testing. At the very least the wire currently runs through to the end of the Empire Connection tunnel. They could obviate an entire subclass by using the overhead dual modes on Empire Corridor services.
At the very least the wire currently runs through to the end of the Empire Connection tunnel. They could obviate an entire subclass by using the overhead dual modes on Empire Corridor services.
How easy it is to spend Other Peoples Money!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD D.Carleton oltmannd MidlandMike CMStPnP C - Diesel and Battery Power for use via Hudson River Tunnels The Deisel/battery units are for the Empire Service that is all diesel along the west side of Manhattan until it arrives at Penn Station and does not use the Hudson Tunnels. Not sure if they use the East River Tunnels to Sunnyside Yard. I wonder why they just don't use 3rd rail like the present duel service locos. Why not just hang catenary all the way to Rensselaer? In the long run, faster and cheaper.....and you can probably have it done before the first Airos finish testing. At the very least the wire currently runs through to the end of the Empire Connection tunnel. They could obviate an entire subclass by using the overhead dual modes on Empire Corridor services. How easy it is to spend Other Peoples Money!
I just want people to stop doing complicated, new things when simple, proven and better ways already exist.
Good chance, in the long run, it'd be cheaper, too.
oltmanndI just want people to stop doing complicated, new things when simple, proven and better ways already exist.
I mean, I get the sentiment, but where would we be if that idea was followed throughout history?
zugmann oltmannd I just want people to stop doing complicated, new things when simple, proven and better ways already exist. I mean, I get the sentiment, but where would we be if that idea was followed throughout history?
oltmannd I just want people to stop doing complicated, new things when simple, proven and better ways already exist.
Of course, but that would be the rational plan. Perhaps someone should compare costs for setting up catenary in Europe compared to costs here?
charlie hebdo oltmannd Why not just hang catenary all the way to Rensselaer? In the long run, faster and cheaper.....and you can probably have it done before the first Airos finish testing. Of course, but that would be the rational plan. Perhaps someone should compare costs for setting up catenary in Europe compared to costs here?
oltmannd Why not just hang catenary all the way to Rensselaer? In the long run, faster and cheaper.....and you can probably have it done before the first Airos finish testing.
D.CarletonThere are maybe a dozen roundtrips to and through Rensselaer; not really enough to justify full electrification. How about a compromise: string wire as far as Spuyten Duyvil. That way no retched fumes in the boroughs and the diesel/catenary dual-modes could be used.
I doubt the bridges/tunnels/cover-overs built on the NYC West Side Line were constructed with catenary clearance in mind. Also the P32 DM's are eminently qualified to do their job, with minimally extra electronics to get them the last mile into NYP. Whereas the diesel/catenary dual modes are two full locomotives under one hood, priced accordingly, and must carry each other's weight around.
MidlandMikeI doubt the bridges/tunnels/cover-overs built on the NYC West Side Line were constructed with catenary clearance in mind. Also the P32 DM's are eminently qualified to do their job, with minimally extra electronics to get them the last mile into NYP. Whereas the diesel/catenary dual modes are two full locomotives under one hood, priced accordingly, and must carry each other's weight around.
oltmannd I just want people to stop doing complicated, new things when simple, proven and better ways already exist. Good chance, in the long run, it'd be cheaper, too.
You may have pointed out the many problems that Amtrak is having with the ALC-42s
blue streak 1You may have pointed out the many problems that Amtrak is having with the ACS-42s
I don't see it as a lot of problems. They are adapting a European design for American use, there are going to be some differences in software needed as well as probably some components that do not have the resilence in the United States as they might have in Europe, given the different track standards and operating practices.
More and more of the new locomotives operation is dependent on software I have observed. You just cannot test for everything with software you need to see what a normal production work assignment produces that you have to react to. Which translates to bugs that need to be worked out.
Before EMD was sold off they used to have issues with new locomotives when they applied a lot of new technology at once with the rollout of the new locomotive type. Seemed to be the rule rather than the exception with EMD. Especially in the early days when Diesels were new and replacing steam locomotives.
Amtrak Siemens locomotives probably spend a lot higher proportion of their lives in a idle state vs their overseas counterparts. Overseas they tend to keep the passenger trains moving constantly.
ACS-42?
D.CarletonACS-42?
Does he mean Chargers instead of Sprinters?
I did mean ALC-42s. But another site a maintenance person says the ACS-64s do not play nice. As I understand there are 3 differet software packages. Any of those 3 will not MU the other 2. As well the ACS' will not MU with any Siemens diesel at present.
Agree that all the disadvantages noted previously are correct. As well these units will be captive to Empire service with no way to operate on the NEC unless turning on diesel once exiting the NYP tunnels both ways. As well I believe that installation of overhead CAT will be less expensive than 3rd rail. Unless the power stations, feeder cables, and buildings for NYC RR DC service are still in place and operative probably 4 new DC sub stations will be needed. However, highly unlikely NYC RR substations still in place. Where if using ALC-Es 2 AC sub stations one at each end of new CAT would be all that is needed and emergency standby connection to NYP 25 Hz might be possible.
Advantages of these units. -- If Amtrak thinks that if it possible regular or emergency service to Grand Central Terminal is contemplated from Albany or New Haven then these units will be needed. Also if MNRR west side service is contemplated to NYP with onlythe present fleet then 3rd rail will be needed the whole distance. If MNRR will plan to use only M-8 type units they will be able go to NYP under wire. 3rd rail will be needed some distance from the West side access tunnel. At present the M-8 type cannot have a 25 Hz transformer due to M-8s becoming overweight. But that M-8 type can also travel on the Hell Gate bridge route allowing West side to East side thru trains. The present 60 Hz cars are OK. At present the weight limit of the Park avenue viaducts precludes M-8s with a 25 Hz transformer installed. However a contract to overhaul the viaducts has been awarded to eliminate that problem..
blue streak 1Advantages of these units. -- If Amtrak thinks that if it possible regular or emergency service to Grand Central Terminal is contemplated from Albany or New Haven then these units will be needed.
Are they going to be equipped with the emergency nose hatches?
zugmannAre they going to be equipped with the emergency nose hatches?
OvermodThey'd damn well have to be.
Isn't that only if they are to go to GCT?
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