CSX doesn't hold their traffic at Howells - if CSX is ready to roll it gets the light. If NS gets there and no CSX movements are lined, they get the light.
Signals get lined at Howells before trains are physically at the crossing. I believe it is a 10 minute grind off if it is decided to change the route once it has been lined.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BALT. It is not that simple. There are 2 Howells withiin 3/4 mie of each other. The one giving the problem is where NS crosses CSX. Any yard work at Tilford has to go pull south over Howell and then push north for the yard at what appears as 3 MPH. Thought the downgrading of Tilford yard hump would help but has not. The yard lead from Tilford to Howell is only about 3/4 mile so long freights -- you get the idea. Have both observed this and have been caught while on Crescent. Last time on Crescent 37 minutes by my log.
Believe Trains Mag had an article on it but cannot find it Anyone ?
Here is a world map if you zoom in about 10 times you can see the whole mess.
http://www.openrailwaymap.org/
blue streak 1BALT. It is not that simple. There are 2 Howells withiin 3/4 mie of each other. The one giving the problem is where NS crosses CSX. Any yard work at Tilford has to go pull south over Howell and then push north for the yard at what appears as 3 MPH. Thought the downgrading of Tilford yard hump would help but has not. The yard lead from Tilford to Howell is only about 3/4 mile so long freights -- you get the idea. Have both observed this and have been caught while on Crescent. Last time on Crescent 37 minutes by my log. Believe Trains Mag had an article on it but cannot find it Anyone ? Here is a world map if you zoom in about 10 times you can see the whole mess. http://www.openrailwaymap.org/
For the most part, a move that is lined will foul Howells until it is completed. If Howells is needed for 'head room' to make the move, Howells will be fould until the move shoves back clear of Howells. It is as simple and as complex as that.
I have had that mess as a part of my territory for several years. CSX is trying to make a coheasive terminal out of what the 5 terminating predecessors built and then were surrounded by the expanding nature of the Atlanta Metropolitan Area. The routes between each of the 5 carriers yards constituted interchange routes - not Main Tracks. Atlanta Terminal is a mess, for CSX and for everyone else.
Atlanta terminal is a mess. Doing things on the cheap over the years hasn't helped. Turning Inman from a hump into a "poor man's" intermodal terminal is one example. Building a second intermodal terminal in town is another. Should have built one, big terminal and been done with it.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Here is a better map that you can zoom in to the location.
http://www.mytopo.com/maps/index.cfm?feature=gwinn&state=0
Crescent trains have to stay clear at the CSX intersection just south of the "Theatre du Reve " which is where NS crosses CSX. Northbound Crescents usually hold somewhere west of "Bims liquor store" to not foul NS freights coming in from the south.
Southbound Crescents will usually hold short of the CP near Howell Mill Road. You will notice that this route will also affect any NS freights going on this route. As well Piedmont division freights have to hold at Howell Mill rd if CSX 2 MTs block the single track crossing for NS trains going south to Macon.
NS freigths to / from Chattanooga, Birmingham, and Inman yard going to Macon will not be impeeded by CSX at Howell.
There is single track line that starts between "Georgia lawers for the arts" and "Compound" that splits off the NS 3 tracks proceeding north and joins CSX near "theatre du Reve" then goes thru switches and bears off to the right, That is the old SAL connection from Terminal station to the Athens line / SAL Silver comet line to BHM ( Abandoned west of I-285 ). CSX still uses this route at times from the trackage rights for trains to/from BHM and Montgomery trains further messing up Howell.
To clarify at the "Paul Mitchell the school Atlanta " there are 5 tracks shown. From the east the first two tracks are 2 MT CSX ( NC&SL { W&A} ), then 2 MT NS (SOU) and one siding which do not recall how it is now used.
For today 19 lost 1:05 from ATL to Anniston + the :25 minutes under schedule it runs when no delays. 19 was under schedule ATL - ATN when the Amtrak Officer's special was ferried to NOL, SAS, FTW, OKC for the inspection trip to Newton. 20 today still too delayed to comment.
BTW, officially Texas has written off extension of the Crescent to Dallas via Meridian, MS because of the projected costs they got back from NS and KCS. Amtrak still likes the additional revenue and ridership the extension would bring in. However without Texas financial support they both agree the route probably will not happen and they have officially walked away from the plan. Casino funding in LA was also deemed unreliable at best.
Long term they are still looking at Austin to Houston service (large capital costs because some rail needs to be relaid)
San Antonio to Monterrey, MX (bureaucratic and political issues with Mexico holding this up, as well as lack of funding).
Houston to New Orleans...........forget what they said about this route.
Dallas to Denver..........costs too high to improve the route.
20 lost an additional 2:15 ATN - ATL last night / this morning. Left ATL at 1:05 AM this morning. Cannot imagine all the normal passenger load having to wait in that small waiting room !
NS isn't getting off scott free on this trip. Lost 3:00+ MEI - TCL - BHM - ATN.
A Crescent extension ? With this time keeping no way !
CMStPnP BTW, officially Texas has written off extension of the Crescent to Dallas via Meridian, MS because of the projected costs they got back from NS and KCS. Amtrak still likes the additional revenue and ridership the extension would bring in. However without Texas financial support they both agree the route probably will not happen and they have officially walked away from the plan. Casino funding in LA was also deemed unreliable at best. Long term they are still looking at Austin to Houston service (large capital costs because some rail needs to be relaid) San Antonio to Monterrey, MX (bureaucratic and political issues with Mexico holding this up, as well as lack of funding). Houston to New Orleans...........forget what they said about this route. Dallas to Denver..........costs too high to improve the route.
Where did you hear Texas has written off extension of the Crescent?? When did Texas said that in last 2016 or in 2017??
conrailmanWhere did you hear Texas has written off extension of the Crescent?? When did Texas said that in last 2016 or in 2017??
2016 Rail plan below:
Chapter 3 on the link below...........interesting reading and remember it is the state DOT and excludes regional trains planned/forecasted by local transit authorities for the most part.
http://www.txdot.gov/government/reports/texas-rail-plan.html
CMStPnP conrailman Where did you hear Texas has written off extension of the Crescent?? When did Texas said that in last 2016 or in 2017?? 2016 Rail plan below: Chapter 3 on the link below...........interesting reading and remember it is the state DOT and excludes regional trains planned/forecasted by local transit authorities for the most part. http://www.txdot.gov/government/reports/texas-rail-plan.html
conrailman Where did you hear Texas has written off extension of the Crescent?? When did Texas said that in last 2016 or in 2017??
I could not find the Cost$$$ route to Dallas, TX for Amtrak 19 & 20. on the pages.
conrailmanI could not find the Cost$$$ route to Dallas, TX for Amtrak 19 & 20. on the pages.
It's not in there it was in a seperate article back when they were looking at running a test train over the route (but could not raise the funds). Amtrak didn't want to pay out of it's budget for a test train and so requested either the states along the route pay for it or the Casinos (maybe that was a test). Nobody came up with any money. So no test train and they went with the estimates of NS and KCS.........and that was that.
Now on the OKC to KC route. Not sure who paid for the test train but after running it they are like "Hey, wait a mininute these costs for startup have to be way out of the ballpark". Track and infrastructure both in great shape on OKC to KC route just need a few more sidings and some signaling related changes. However OK and KS are dirt poor when it comes to state budgets compared to other states. Primarily because they are agricultural states.
I think a lot of these railroad cost estimates are nothing more than the tendency of a private corporation to shake the money tree when it sees a in part Federal organization approach them and should be viewed as such until the facts prove otherwise.
Anyhow, in the above study.....interesting reading on how the reconfiguration of the Texas Eagle and Sunset Limited, brought in more money to the bottom line..........who would have thought that?
Tonight's 20 arrived at Howell at 8:01PM and left at 9:11 arrived Atlanta station 9:24. Not much delay today for 19 and 20 BHM <> MEI but they have been taking 1/2 to 1 hour most days this month. This last week 19 & 20 did not take much delays ATN <> ATL.
blue streak 1 Tonight's 20 arrived at Howell at 8:01PM and left at 9:11 arrived Atlanta station 9:24. Not much delay today for 19 and 20 BHM <> MEI but they have been taking 1/2 to 1 hour most days this month. This last week 19 & 20 did not take much delays ATN <> ATL.
Sounds like a regular occurence. Perhaps drop service beyond ATL or bus the remaining passengers?
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
The Amtrak monthly performance report ( MPR ) came out for May 2017
https://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/467/804/Amtrak-Monthly-Performance-Report-May-2017.pdf
The Cresent was dead last for end point on time arrivals ( table E-2 ). Just 6.5 % trains arrived NOL / NYP on time ( 10 trains out of 63 ). It appears that NS is again at bottom of OTP only exceeded by its midwest meltdown August - October 2014. Surely movement planner is not being used ?
Just a glance at times for month showed 2 delay spots. Meridian <> BHM ( movement planner ? ) and Anniston <> Atlanta. The latter almost all waiting for CSX to clear Howell interlocking. NOTE: Amtrak does not charge CSX the delay but delay charged to NS as Freight train interferrence. North bound train 20 can often make up as much as 1 - 3/4 hours from Gastonia - Danville and WASH - NYP that may have allowed the 10 trains to arrive NYP on time or within 30 minutes. Did not find any NOL on time arrivals for MAY! Of course starting July 10th the WASH - NYP make up will not be available.
Guess the LSL ( late shore limited ) is in danger of being dethroned ?
EDIT: Changed post per Oltmann
blue streak 1 The Amtrak monthly performance report ( MPR ) came out for May 2017 https://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/467/804/Amtrak-Monthly-Performance-Report-May-2017.pdf The Cresent was dead last for end point on time arrivals ( table E-2 ). Just 6.5 % trains arrived NOL / NYP on time ( 10 trains out of 62 ). It appears that NS is again at bottom of OTP only exceeded by its midwest meltdown August - October 2014. Surely auto router is not being used ? Just a glance at times for month showed 2 delay spots. Meridian <> BHM ( auto router ? ) and Anniston <> Atlanta. The latter almost all waiting for CSX to clear Howell interlocking. NOTE: CSX does not get charged for the delay but delay charged to NS as Freight train interferrence. North bound train 20 can often make up as much as 1 - 3/4 hours from Gastonia - Danville and WASH - NYP that may have allowed the 10 trains to arrive NYP on time or within 30 minutes. Did not find any NOL on time arrivals for MAY! Of course starting July 10th the WASH - NYP make up will not be available. Guess the LSL ( late shore limited ) is in danger of being dethroned ?
The Cresent was dead last for end point on time arrivals ( table E-2 ). Just 6.5 % trains arrived NOL / NYP on time ( 10 trains out of 62 ). It appears that NS is again at bottom of OTP only exceeded by its midwest meltdown August - October 2014. Surely auto router is not being used ?
Just a glance at times for month showed 2 delay spots. Meridian <> BHM ( auto router ? ) and Anniston <> Atlanta. The latter almost all waiting for CSX to clear Howell interlocking. NOTE: CSX does not get charged for the delay but delay charged to NS as Freight train interferrence. North bound train 20 can often make up as much as 1 - 3/4 hours from Gastonia - Danville and WASH - NYP that may have allowed the 10 trains to arrive NYP on time or within 30 minutes. Did not find any NOL on time arrivals for MAY! Of course starting July 10th the WASH - NYP make up will not be available.
Just a clarification. Auto router is just a regular "stacked route" tool. I think the thing you want to refer to is "movement planner".
It, most assuredly, is not the problem.
NS can code delays internally due to foreign trains blocking the route, but Amtrak does not differentiate.
Don thanks for the correction. Changed the post to reflect that. Old timer's brain loss ?
For the first time in over a month 19 arrived NOL only 19 minutes late which is considerd on time by Amtrak recogning. Train arrived Meridian on time but lost time to Laurel. 20 today lost :50 Meridian - Tuscaloosa and could not make up time even though only made schedule time Anniston - ATL . the 25 minute pad did not help.
I will be on Amtrak 19 & 20 to NOL, LA on July 16, 2017 coming back July 22, 2017. I happy man in sleeping cars.
2 days before Cresent did loose some time but today back to same old same old. 19 lost :45 ATL - ATN & :59 additional BHM - Meridian. 20 lost 2:00 + Meridian - Anniston. NS what can you do ?
EDIT; 20 Left Atlanta 3:00 late. Now how much time can be made up to WASH and NYP ?
Were freight trains getting in the way, track maintenance, derailment? what was the issue?
Amtrak last week did very well south of Atlanta thru Thursday. Since then went back to old ways. Tonight 20 been sitting at least 30 minutes at Howell at 9:35PM and will be over 2:00 late at Atlanta.
EDIT lost 40 minutes ATN - ATL now 2:15 late.
19 / 25 arrived ATL early was 1:53 late by Meridian. 20 / 26 left Meridian :10 late, Anniston 3:48 late, now scheduled ATL not before 11:00PM which is best case. More likely 11:30 PM ?
EDIT---- Arrived ATL 11:20 that is 3:45 late 19 will arrive NOL about 11:50 CDT.
Not sure why but 20 lost 3:30 ATN - ATL tonight now runing 5:00+ late.
Left ATL at 1:09 AM. This is going to interfeer with Carolinian at CLT for Cresent - Carolinian connections. Happened a couple weeks ago.
19 lost 5:55 ATL - Anniston. Most if not all came because a NS freight Macon - BHM; just west of Temple went in emergency then broke a knuckle not once but twice. Relief locos pushed freight out of way. Hopefully no additional delays to Meridian or crew will outlaw due to HOS. ETA NOL 0200 CDT.
Today Train # 19 lost 3:13 ATL - ATN
July 11th last time #20 arrived ATL on time. Only 7 days less than 2:00 late ATL. Number 19 arrived NOL only one time less than 60 minutes late since July 11th and onlly 8 times arrived NOL less than 2:00 late since July 11th. But arrived Atlanta less than 60 Minutes late 22 days same time period.
Situation not improved as of now. Median additional delays between Anniston <> ATL are running over 1 hour. However close looking has some delays on NS west of Mabelton. Additionl delays BHM <> Meridian on NS but usually more southbound.
Norris yard in Birmingham is in the ditch (again). Delays could be related....
Even on today Thanksgiving day both 19 & 20 have lost over an hour between Meredian and Atlanta. Only the Meteor 97 / 22 has lost an hour on CSX today on eastern RRs .
blue streak 1 Even on today Thanksgiving day both 19 & 20 have lost over an hour between Meredian and Atlanta. Only the Meteor 97 / 22 has lost an hour on CSX today on eastern RRs .
Birmingham remains in the ditch.
oltmannd Birmingham remains in the ditch.
Oltmannd. Is it a cascading problem ?
1. Norris yard hump closed.
2. Inbound trains from all directions cannot get into the yard in an orderly manner.
3. Trains wait outside Norris tying up sidings.
4. Meets become very problematic due to passing on main tracks, backing in or out of sidings, waiting for freight to enter a long enough siding to proceed.
Well #20 / 24 arrived ATL only 16 minutes late. Guess anything is almost possible. A check from Jan 01, 2017 show #20 only arrived ATL early 4 times. Great stats ? For information #19 arrived Meridian 8 times early from Jan 01.
OMG! both 19 and 20 made it thru the Meridian - ATL swamp essentially on time today .
From last report both ways Crescent loosing average of 3 hours south of ATL. Yesterday 20 lost 4:29 Anniston - ATL partially due to NS freight train interferrence.
At least train 20 will be able to leave ATL on time some days in Januarary and early February. That will occurr on Monday - Thursday nights Jan 6 - Feb 8 due to Crescent not going south of ATL on those days. Bus substitution will be provided instead .
https://www.amtrak.co able to m/services/contentService.alerts.routealerts.departDate-20180109.routeName-Crescent.html
November host RR performance has Crescent end point arrivals dead last at 13%. Next worse RR was CSX at 31% for various trains. Best was the E Builder at 81%
December median delays between Meridian and ATL were for train 19 --2:03. Train 20 --- 1:38 however 2 were on time at ATL would have raised the median to 1:57.
Even the late shore limited at BUF only had 1:13 for Dec. or :51 for CLE. Also 1:01 for 48 at ALB
Do freight trains on NS factor in to the delay?
ATSFGuy Do freight trains on NS factor in to the delay?
My hunch is that the overall disfunction of NS's yard in Birmingham has led to congestion east and west of Birmingham and trains running out of slot. It's been this way since they closed the hump in Chatt.
I wonder: did NS, without any forethought, decide to emulate EHH concerning yard operation?
Johnny
Deggesty I wonder: did NS, without any forethought, decide to emulate EHH concerning yard operation?
Well, sort of. The EHH scare pushed them into the "drop the OR" promise. Closing the humps was a means to that end. Was it pushed along faster than it should have been? Maybe. None of NS's big yards have had good dwell numbers in a year. Capacity or local management? Can't really tease that out from the public numberss.
Any 'decently operating' railroad network can be managed into gridlock by ill advised senior management decisions - CSX and NS are the current examples. UP has been an example in the past.
BaltACD Any 'decently operating' railroad network can be managed into gridlock by ill advised senior management decisions - CSX and NS are the current examples. UP has been an example in the past.
blue streak 1 BaltACD Any 'decently operating' railroad network can be managed into gridlock by ill advised senior management decisions - CSX and NS are the current examples. UP has been an example in the past. Yes the ill advised anticipation that the current track structure of NS Meridian - BHM - ATL could handle the additional traffic from the Meridian speedway of KCS. Then the gain in traffic from CSX partial meltdown moved more NOL and other traffic to the same route. Does anyone know if NS is actually lenghtening sidings or putting in some 2 main tracks during this month's closings of the route to Amtrak's trains # 19 and #20 Mondays thru Thursdays ?
I have NO knowledge of what NS is actually doing.
That being said, that 'curfew' period sounds like either a rail gang or tie and surfacing gang are working on single track. These kinds of gangs need track occupancy for 8 to 10 continuous hours or more without passing traffic - the gangs consist of many machines that perform the necessary actions to pull off these activities. It generally takes a hour or two to get all machines into the track structure from their clear up point and doing their jobs, by the same token it also takes a hour or two for all the machines to get into the clear and return the track to service.
The days of the Gandy Dancer and a local section crew working on several rail lenghts a day is over the horizon in the rear view mirror of today's railroads.
There really isn't any additional train count on this route that I'm aware of. Curfew is anual thing for four day a week track gang work.
oltmannd There really isn't any additional train count on this route that I'm aware of. Curfew is anual thing for four day a week track gang work.
blue streak 1 oltmannd There really isn't any additional train count on this route that I'm aware of. Curfew is anual thing for four day a week track gang work. If that is true why are trains 19 & 20 taking such a hit most days Austell <> Meridian ? These delays did not always happen in the past..
Birmingham yard is a mess causing congestion on the line.
OMG Yesterday's Crescent #20 / 10 was on time for every departure from ATL to ALEX and early from there to NYP. So all the delays except the usual are south of ATL.
Todays Crescent #20 (11) originated at Atlanta and so started ON TIME. As of (:00 PM CST it is shown as Ar Gainesville 3 min early and departing on time. So it apearantly was annulled between NOL & ATL.
Electroliner 1935 Todays Crescent #20 (11) originated at Atlanta and so started ON TIME. As of (:00 PM CST it is shown as Ar Gainesville 3 min early and departing on time. So it apearantly was annulled between NOL & ATL.
Well it is actually getting worse.
From Jan 1 to present 19 arrived ATL 18 days on time, Average delay :30 and median :03. At Meridian average arrival 2:17 median 1:42. This even though no service 16 days ATL - NOL.
20 arrived ATL average 2:28 late median 2:17. 0 arrivals OT but 16 non operating from NOL. NS does do fairly well dispatching 20 north of ATL with WASH :57 average delay and :26 median delay however many of the WASH ot arrivals were due to the ATL originations.
It may be because of weather but the problems seem to be spreading to north of ATL. 19/15 lost several hours CLT - ATL then more to HBG; 19/16 lost over hour WASH - CVS; 20/ 15 lost 5 hours due to NS hitting someone between BHM - ATL and 20 / 16 lost several hours into ATL.
This last week 2/18 - 2/24 was another poor one. Maybe the announceent by NS routing some trains BHM - Columbus - Albany - Tifton instead of thru ATL will allow the Crescent better timing ?
for 19 ATL MEI NOL
AVG :17 2:36 3:17
Median :00 2:33 2:26 latest 5:30
For 20
AVG 2:19 :36 latest 2 - 3:00+
Median 2:04 :14
I am curious if the Crescent could be rerouted over its original route west of Atlanta via Montgomery, Mobile to New Orleans over CSX until such time that NS can straighten out its maintenance? Maybe some Amshack type stations could be temporarily put up. From Mobile west restore those stations for possible gulf coast service people seem to be talking about.
A McIntoshI am curious if the Crescent could be rerouted over its original route west of Atlanta via Montgomery, Mobile to New Orleans over CSX until such time that NS can straighten out its maintenance? Maybe some Amshack type stations could be temporarily put up. From Mobile west restore those stations for possible gulf coast service people seem to be talking about.
CSX is a congested railroad Atlanta - Birmingham - Montgomery - Mobile - New Orleans. It is also congested Atlanta - Montgomery - Mobile - New Orleans.
The present operators of CSX would take an exceeding dim view of operating the Cresent over any route on their property beyond the current DC to AF leg over the RF&P.
BaltACD A McIntosh I am curious if the Crescent could be rerouted over its original route west of Atlanta via Montgomery, Mobile to New Orleans over CSX until such time that NS can straighten out its maintenance? Maybe some Amshack type stations could be temporarily put up. From Mobile west restore those stations for possible gulf coast service people seem to be talking about. CSX is a congested railroad Atlanta - Birmingham - Montgomery - Mobile - New Orleans. It is also congested Atlanta - Montgomery - Mobile - New Orleans. The present operators of CSX would take an exceeding dim view of operating the Cresent over any route on their property beyond the current DC to AF leg over the RF&P.
A McIntosh
Would running shorter trains help? Of course, this would mean that more employees would be needed--and the money-hungry people would be unhappy.
DeggestyWould running shoorter trains help? Of course, this would mean that more employees would be needed--and the money-hungry people would be unhappy.
When you are dealing with Single Track railroad there are a specific number of trains that can be operated, due to the number and size of the passing sidings. If you plan on operating trains that exceed siding capacity - realistically you can only operate them in ONE DIRECTION as all trains in the other direction must be of siding clearing size - to do otherwise creates a locked down subdivision.
If the volume of traffic being handled on a particular route exceeds the number of clearing trains that can be handled on that single track route, then then running non-clearing trains can be one means of handling the level of traffic.
Deggesty Would running shoorter trains help? Of course, this would mean that more employees would be needed--and the money-hungry people would be unhappy
Would running shoorter trains help? Of course, this would mean that more employees would be needed--and the money-hungry people would be unhappy
No, shorter trains make the route MORE congested holding car count constant. To illustrate, lets immagine that sidings are 8,000 feet and the railroad is now running 20 trains per day. It is incurring x hours of train delay per day and performing y number of meets per day.
There is an old, old rule that says the number of meets increases as the square of the number of trains per day on a given line segment. That is if you double the number of trains you will have four times the number of meets. So if you shorten the trains by half and double the number of trains the number of meets will quadruple, as will the delay costs. If a line is running at or near its practical capacity in terms of trains per day, you will never get twice as many trains over it. Will freeze up on the first day!
If it is an ATK route, best thing to do is pray for ATK to go away.
Mac
Shorter trains woiuld help if there four or more times the number of sidings that coiuld hold them. And also, how many, just how much shorter, snd thus how many addiitional trains required.
Once again the knife south of Atlanta for the month of March. This does not include 3 round trip cancellations in stats. Used Laurel since trains often take delays just south of Meridian ( MEI ).
South bound 19 from Atlanta to Laurel average loss !:40 and median loss 1:40
North bound #20 Laurel to Atlanta average loss 1:43 and median 1:38.
EDIT
April has started even worse with 20 taking over 3:00 average to ATL and 19 over 2:00 at LAU.
On another site Crescent had end point arrivals on time - # 19 once at New Orleans and # 20 none at WASH. All our other performers did better.
blue streak 1 On another site Crescent had end point arrivals on time - # 19 once at New Orleans and # 20 none at WASH. All our other performers did better.
This is truly and historically awful.
And, in a time when NS needs "all hands on deck" and and everyone pulling in the same direction, they decide to sue a crew that ran a red signal and wrecked in KY. That'll build morale!
It was horrible today. #19 was held for #20 a few miles above Tuscaloosa I did not note the time we stopped--and, as we reached East Tuscaloosa, we had to stop becuase some person had left a car sitting on the traqck. I give thanks that the engineer saw it in time. It began to seem that there was no wrecker in Tuscaloosa, but we were able to at least get to Meridian (about two hours late). I hope it will be better tomorrow when I go back north.
I did not note any great delay due to freight; it seemed that such meets were well arranged, including the two with run-throughs with UP power on the point.
Really hate to report this but -------
In March 19 loat average of 10 minutes Greenville ( / (GRV) ATL but for first 9 days of April lost average of 35 minutes.
March #20 ATL - GRV lost 30 minutes but April lost 35 minutes.
Does this mean the delays are spreading to north of ATL ? hope this just a glich ?
Only place these trains seem to keep scheduled en route times is north of Gastonia / Charlotte or south of Laurel, MS
I left Meridian 55 miutes late yesterday morning (at train time, the lastest report inn the station was "on time." At one point (I do not remember where) we had a meet with two trains, and backed to the switch after the first one moved on. We left Birmingham 1:49 late, and we left Anniston 2:00 late.
I went to bed after leaving Anniston--and woke up just below Danville, 1:54 late, so we may hve slipped through the Atlanta area.
I made the connections I had hoped to make. tomorrow, I start back from Wilmington tomorrow, and hope to be home by 11:00 Saturday evening.
There are reports on train orders that NS is now jamed from ATL - Linwood yard ( Just north of Salisbury ). 19 today seems to have made it to ATL without more delays but since 20 is not yet at ATL we will see.
Oltmannd - Any information ?
blue streak 1 There are reports on train orders that NS is now jamed from ATL - Linwood yard ( Just north of Salisbury ). 19 today seems to have made it to ATL without more delays but since 20 is not yet at ATL we will see. Oltmannd - Any information ?
Sort of. There are some merchandise trains stacked up - part of the overall issues NS has had with in the past 6 months - but RR still looks pretty fluid. There's quite a bit of capacity on that line - not much traffic.
Tonight (4/26) the northbound Crescent arrived in NYC SIX hours late.
I sure would hate to be a member of the crew trying to explain away
all of this awfull tardiness!
The weekend of the 14th & 15th I rode from Phila. to NO and arrived
Sunday 2 and a half hours late. I guess that's not too bad?! Ugh.
For April Crescent 19 lost an additional 2:34 average 2:10 median Atl - Laurel. #20 lost avg 2:07 median 2:12. #20 lost 2:07 avg 2:12 median.
For May same mid points lost additional 19 avg 2:30 median 2:02. #20 avg 2:00 median 1:57.
For two months end point arrivals NOL zero on time Washington 1 22 min early.
What is worse is delay arrivals during 2 months NOL hours 4+ = 6; 5+ = 2 6&8+ = 4; 11 hours =1. Washington arrivals 4 & 5 =9 8&9 =2
One of the first service changes should be to drop the Crescent south of ATL and replace it with a day train (coaches only, eventually improving speed and reliability). And add (as Oltmann has suggested numerous times) a 2nd train from ATL to DC, a day train.
Prior to 1975, Southern did operate a Washington-Atlanta day train, the "Piedmont". It was operated as a mainline mixed train with 20-30 cars of TOFC/COFC behind 2-3 coaches and a snack bar.
CSSHEGEWISCH Prior to 1975, Southern did operate a Washington-Atlanta day train, the "Piedmont". It was operated as a mainline mixed train with 20-30 cars of TOFC/COFC behind 2-3 coaches and a snack bar.
For the month of June really not much better. However July has shown some improvements maybe due to NS hump partial reopening at Chattanooga. Here are the differences between revelant stations. Arrivals . Note ATN = Anniston, Alabama.
It is noted that occassionally Crescent can be under schedule time between ATN & ATL 25 -30 minutes under enroute schedule but it does not often happen. 2 problems are congestion on NS between ATN and Austell. The other problem is the grade crossing of CSX at Howell interlocking just west of ATL station. CSX often blocks NS track at Howell due to it either having long northbound thru freights on one track changing crews and / or using the other CSX track for flat switching ( used to be hump ).
For train #19 Average delay Median delays
CLT - ATL :59 :51
ATL - ATN :33 :29
ATN - LAU 1:23 1:18
LAU - NOL arrival -:20 - :11
For Train 20
NOL every train departed NOL on time except 1 that was 3:00 Late due to previous nights very late arrival.
NOL - LAU :07 :00
LAU - ATN 1:26 1:25
ATN - ATL :26 :23
ATL - CLT :50 :27
CLT - WASH - :04 - :13
Evidently NS has not been able to make up time north of ATL like they used to . It is unknown what has caused the Crescent to loose time north of ATL . Anyone ?
NOL every train departed NOL except 1 that was 3:00 Late due to previous nights very late arrival.
blue streak 1Evidently NS has not been able to make up time north of ATL like they used to . It is unknown what has caused the Crescent to loose time north of ATL . Anyone ?
My hunch is stuff is still jammed up at Linwood. NS is still not "resourced up" enough to get out of the ditch.
This thread is one year old. If the title is still true, maybe it's time to make Atlanta the southern endpoint.
From July 1st the Atl <> Anniston delays continue. FYI it has been noted that a perfect trip between the 2 stations has been 30 minutes under schedule both ways. Only checking that day can delay locations can be determineds as info is then lost for previous days.
19 average loss was :35 and median :35
20 average loss was :28 and median :40
Number 19 is marked-up 4 hours, 19 minutes late into NO this evening, July 28th. Number 20 is showing 2 hours, 39 minutes late into Atlanta.
In 2017 the Crescent had the worst on-time performance at its end points of the long distance trains at 42.2 percent. The on-time performance at its intermediate stations was probably worse.
I rode the Cresecent from Atlanta to New Orleans approximately 8 years ago. It was on time when I rode it.
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
http://dixielandsoftware.net/cgi-bin/getmap.pl?mapname=East
Cresent not doing too good today either
charlie hebdo This thread is one year old. If the title is still true, maybe it's time to make Atlanta the southern endpoint.
If you watch what happens in Atlanta, you'd see that Atlanta is the destination for most passengers on the train.
Functionally, it's two trains. One from NY to Atlanta and one from Atlanta to NOL. Why not just make both halfs daylight with a long dwell in Altanta. Drop the sleepers and diner, add coaches. Send through passengers off to sleep in a hotel.
Don at one time I was agreeing with you. However if you check station stats for BHM you will find that 41,700+ Passengers boarded in 2017. The highest number did go to NOL. However 8 of the highest 10 revenue pairs came for trips to ATL and north, Spliting the train at ATL probably would eliminate 90% of that revenue ? Plus TCL & ATN also provide much thru ATL traffic.
But definitely a day train north out of ATL is needed. Our only concern is that any day trai service might overload ATL station much more than is already happening on the Crescent ? The morning rush hour could be wild depending on departure time. We feel that it would carry more passengers than the Palmetto does due to the higher population density ATL - Greensboro than Palmetto south of Petersburgh ?
North of Greensboro the route has to be carefully analyzed. If LYH and CVS is skipped then the next planned Roanoke - WASH trip should cover that route at convient times very well except for Danville. By going thru Raleigh the day train would provide another Piedmont schedule CLT <> Raleigh and thru to the NYP. However going by Selma does add additional time but this train would connect 4 state capitols and WASH together. Is there any other route that does or would do the same except the Star ?
BaltACD http://dixielandsoftware.net/cgi-bin/getmap.pl?mapname=East Cresent not doing too good today either
Yes 19 lost another 1:18 atl - atn + :30 pad = 1:48
blue streak 1Don at one time I was agreeing with you. However if you check station stats for BHM you will find that 41,700+ Passengers boarded in 2017. The highest number did go to NOL. However 8 of the highest 10 revenue pairs came for trips to ATL and north, Spliting the train at ATL probably would eliminate 90% of that revenue ? Plus TCL & ATN also provide much thru ATL traffic.
In 2017, Anniston had only 4,255 boardings and alightings. For the Crescent both directions, that is a paltry 11.7 people a day using the station, about 6 on each train getting on or off.
The RPA site shows 7 out of 10 city pairs (from AL) were to ATL or north. What would be more telling would be ridership on the Crescent from each city compared with total ridership. Unfortunately, RPA does not provide that, only rankings:
1. Birmingham, AL - New Orleans, LA
2. Atlanta, GA - Washington, DC
3. Atlanta, GA - New York, NY
4. Charlottesville, VA - New York, NY
5. Atlanta, GA - New Orleans, LA
6. Charlottesville, VA - Washington, DC
7. New Orleans, LA - Washington, DC
8. New Orleans, LA - New York, NY
9. Greensboro, NC - Washington, DC
10. Lynchburg, VA - New York, NY (from https://www.railpassengers.org/site/assets/files/3443/52.pdf
Only 2/10 are from south of ATL through to points north and only two from ATL or point south to NOLA. Add a day train ATL to DC/NYP and make the NOLA-ATL segemnt a dya train.
From 943 - 938 PM tonight so far #20 is holding at Howell interlocking for CSX to clear.
There is not enough slop in the dwell in Atlanta to make up for all the time keeping foolishness, especially south of Altanta.
Raise that dwell to 10 hours or so and package up the overnight travellers with hotel and transfer in Atlanta, so all they have to do it get off the train and on shuttle van in Atlanta, and I'll bet you don't lose many of existing traveller, but you'd pick up a whole bunch of tourism oriented travellers.
...and reliable departures from Atlanta every day.
Crescent watchers: almost good news Sunday night 8/26 -
#19 arrived in New Orleans @ 7:45 - just 13 minutes late!
That must be close to if not a record for 2018. Lucky were the
passengers tonight!!
This may be kind of silly, but since I last rode #19 in April and
it arrived in New Orleans over 2 hours late, plus with all the posts
about the Crescent being stabbed, I have been off and on keeping
track of it's timing. This past week once 16 minutes late, once 13
minutes late, and tonight - YIKES - 2 minutes EARLY!!!!
Has something happened between Atlanta and NO to give 19 better
timing, or will this not last?
The state of Georgia released its FRA required 2015 rail plan.It is somewhat dated but -------------
For those who want to know a detailed description of the Howell CP go to the following link. You will have to page down many pages to appendix "D" Looking at the diagrams the many possibilities of delay to the Crescent will become apparent.
http://www.dot.ga.gov/InvestSmart/Rail/Documents/StateRailPlan/StateRailPlan-Appendices-2015.pdf#search=appendix%20d%20rail%20plan%2A
Crescent hits tressapsser west of ATL. Lost 2 hours at Bremen. However mde it thru Howell CP with no delay.
http://www.cbs46.com/story/39011681/pedestrian-hit-killed-by-amtrak-train-west-of-atlanta
https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/man-killed-by-amtrak-train-while-walking-on-tracks-police-say/826123436
https://www.11alive.com/article/news/officials-man-killed-by-amtrak-train-while-walking-on-tracks/85-590337934
Well #20 has alread lost 2:00+ hours by Anniston and looks like it will loose more time to ATL. However 20/5 and 20/6 will depart ATL on time as it is cancelled between NOL and ATL. 19 was terminated in ATL this morning. 19/4 & 19/5 will also be cancelled at ATL. What is going to be interesting is that 2 Complete Crescent train sets will be laying over after 19 arrives at ATL tomorrow morning. Now where will the 2nd train's set will be parked ?
Even without #20 not operating today out of NOL #19 only 5 minutes late out of ATL and 5+ hours late out of Laurel, Ms
#20/04 lost almost 2 hours at Howell CP last night. CSX up to its old tricks. Unfortunately NS gets charged for the delay.
After some brain storming we begin to think that our posts may be misleading. Not only is CSX delaying Amtrak they are also delaying NS freights.
1. Freights from Chattanooga and BHM that go onto the Piedmont sub ( towards Greenville and CLT have to cross Howell's CSX line.
2. Freights to / from Piedmont sub that go to Macon - Jacksonville also have to cross CSX at Howell .
3. Often the Crescent will get delayed by NS freghts in front trying to transit Howell that are delayed by CSX. Looking at last night's delay that appears to be what happened as Crescent stalled by Inman yard waiting for NS freight to clear by CSX freight and then Crescent proceeded further to be delayed at Howell by another CSX freight .
Due to the complexity of Howell the solution appears to have CSX to duck under all the NS tracks that wye directly across CSX. The long freights of both CSX and NS make the situation worse. In distant past although there were many more transits across Howell the trains and yard transfers were much shorter .
I know what we should do to stop the delays of passenger trains on the NS at Howell: go back in history before the Western and Atlantic was built, and build a railroad from Atlanta to Gainseville, on the same alignment as is now used by NS.
Or, change the convention so that the second road at a crossing has precedence,
Your solution is the only viable one: persuade CSX to go under the NS tracks; would NS pay for such a project (I doubt it)?
As I recall, from 1958 (the first year I rode the Southerner through Atlanta) on, the only delays in Atlanta were caused by pulling the southbound Southerner out of the station and pulling the northbound train into the station--or turning the coach seats after it was decided about 1968 to eliminate the switch engine moves on this train.
blue streak 1After some brain storming we begin to think that our posts may be misleading. Not only is CSX delaying Amtrak they are also delaying NS freights. 1. Freights from Chattanooga and BHM that go onto the Piedmont sub ( towards Greenville and CLT have to cross Howell's CSX line. 2. Freights to / from Piedmont sub that go to Macon - Jacksonville also have to cross CSX at Howell . 3. Often the Crescent will get delayed by NS freghts in front trying to transit Howell that are delayed by CSX. Looking at last night's delay that appears to be what happened as Crescent stalled by Inman yard waiting for NS freight to clear by CSX freight and then Crescent proceeded further to be delayed at Howell by another CSX freight . Due to the complexity of Howell the solution appears to have CSX to duck under all the NS tracks that wye directly across CSX. The long freights of both CSX and NS make the situation worse. In distant past although there were many more transits across Howell the trains and yard transfers were much shorter .
Financing the reinvention of the wheel can get expensive.
Maybe Atlanta needs its own equivalent of Chicago's CREATE project.
Electroliner 1935 Maybe Atlanta needs its own equivalent of Chicago's CREATE project.
blue streak 1 Electroliner 1935 Maybe Atlanta needs its own equivalent of Chicago's CREATE project. That is exactly what will be needed. There cannot ever be a reliable commuter rail service from the north of Atlanta until Howell is mitigated. There are 7 different potential commuter rail routes from the north that all converge going thru Howell, That certainly seems to be cause for a need for flyovers and possibly more tracks thru, over, and under Howell CP. That would be more complicated than even Zoo !
All the carriers that entered Atlanta viewed the city as their Terminal when they were creating themselves. When you are a end point you don't engineer rights of way for through movement, and none of the carriers did, when the land was available to do it. Atlanta and the South itself grew and the carriers become land locked with just interchange routes between each carriers terminal yards.
While the NS nowadays gets screwed by CSX, the layout of CSX tracks in Atlanta causes CSX to screw itself frequently as well. NS also screws CSX when train use the NS trackage to Eastpoint.
BaltACD All the carriers that entered Atlanta viewed the city as their Terminal when they were creating themselves. When you are a end point you don't engineer rights of way for through movement, and none of the carriers did, when the land was available to do it. Atlanta and the South itself grew and the carriers become land locked with just interchange routes between each carriers terminal yards. While the NS nowadays gets screwed by CSX, the layout of CSX tracks in Atlanta causes CSX to screw itself frequently as well. NS also screws CSX when train use the NS trackage to Eastpoint.
Among all the lines that entered Atlanta, only one was constructed to run through Atlanta--the East Tennessee Virginia and Georgia's line that connected its line into Rome with the Macon and Brunswick--in 1882.
The Georgia RR was the first into Atlanta, about 1834, and the W&A began in 1836. Thus, the W&A (now operated by CSX) was the first line through Howell. The Georgia Western, which became the east end of the Georgia Pacific (Atlanta to Greenville, Miississippi), was chartered in 1854, and apparently was the first road to cross the W&A.
The Atlanta and Richmond Airline, which eventually became part of the Southern, began in Atlanta by 1871.
The Georgia, Carolina, & Northern (which became a part of SAL) reached Inman Park (on the GaR) in 1892.
Other roads have less, if any, conflict with the W&A and Howell.
I understand that when the GaRR was planned, the planners wanted to stop in Decatur--but the city fathers said "No you don't stop here"--so the west end was set about six miles further on, and was called, at first, "Terminus."
October appeared to be getting better but there has been a decline this month . For Friday 19 got to NOL 5:30+ hours late and 20 scheduled now to arrive ATL 0330 or later. 7 + hours late. Note 20 did leave NOL 3 + hours late. Emphasis on later !
Estimated CLT 0800 or later . Will miss connection to Carolinian train 80.
blue streak 1For those who want to know a detailed description of the Howell CP go to the following link. You will have to page down many pages to appendix "D" Looking at the diagrams the many possibilities of delay to the Crescent will become apparent. http://www.dot.ga.gov/InvestSmart/Rail/Documents/StateRailPlan/StateRailPlan-Appendices-2015.pdf#search=appendix%20d%20rail%20plan%2A
These are D3 and D4, pages 116 and 117 (of 195) in the PDF if you want to go directly to them.
20/15 delayed ! 5:50 into ATL last night further delays.
UPDATE: Crescent Train 20(15) is currently operating about 6 hr 11 min late due to additional Freight Train interference along the route. Please check http://Amtrak.com or our mobile app for status updates.
Maybe NS knows something about Amtrak not citing NS for extreme delays ? ?
Crescent 20/22 out of NOL already 4:30+ late at Birmingham. No more alerts today as alerts shut down for holiday
Crescent Train 20 that departed New Orleans (NOL) on 11/22 is currently operating about 2hr 26min late due to earlier mechanical issues, speed restrictions and freight train interference between NOL and Meridian (MEI).
follow up # 20/22 was 5:45 late at ATL additional loss till GAS then made up :30 to GRO and now lost more according to Amtrak. Only @:09 lost on the attached delay notice between TCL and BHM.
UPDATE: Crescent Train 20 which departed New Orleans (NOL) on 11/22 is currently operating about 6 hr 11 min late due to an earlier crossing incident south of Birmingham (BHM) and additional Freight Train interference along the route.
Does it appear that Amtrak ( Anderson ) does not care and is not complaining about these delays ? Crescent is only train other than a #2 Sunset that is extremely late. These lates are getting worse !
Persons that in past to use Crescent to get to WASH at an early day time cannot anymore depend on it other than being 2 - 4 hours late.
blue streak 1 Verified account ago More Does it appear that Amtrak ( Anderson ) does not care and is not complaining about these delays ? Crescent is only train other than a #2 Sunset that is extremely late. These lates are getting worse !
Based on a randomly selected five dates in October and early November, the Texas Eagle, No. 21 averaged 1 hour, 55 minutes late into San Antonio, which means that it is getting into the Almo City near midnight.
No 21 that departed Chicago on November 19th and was due in San Antonio at 9:55 pm on November 20th did not arrive in the Alamo City until 9:19 am, November 21st.
Imagine you are planning to meet a family member that is supposed to arrive in San Antonio at 9:55 pm, only to find out that she will not arrive until 9:19 the following morning. She will not be happy. And neither will you! Never again is likely to be your mutual refrain!
I don't know whether Anderson cares. But it may not make any difference. The freight carriers that host Amtrak's long distance trains hold all the cards. And as long as they do, they will prioritize their money making trains over Amtrak's money losing long-distance trains.
As reported in other threads, Amtrak does not pay the fully allocated cost of hosting its passenger trains. So why should the freight carriers go out of their way to see that Amtrak's trains are kept to their schedule?
NS has been trying to run the Crescent on PTC for the past several weeks. I know at least one day, it make a huge mess of the Piedmont Div. The cell networks couldn't keep up with the data updates to be uploaded to the Amtrak train en route. Apparently, one train without good route data stops everything.
Don't know if this is ongoing problem or not.
Usually, route data for a trip is uploaded over WiFi at origin terminal. With Amtrak, apparently they upload just enough to get rolling and are supposed to do the rest while en route.
Don thanks for the explanation ! One thought. Is the updating happening on just a crew change or with a same crew ? Just another reason that Amtrak does not seem to care about LD trains ?
blue streak 1 Don thanks for the explanation ! One thought. Is the updating happening on just a crew change or with a same crew ? Just another reason that Amtrak does not seem to care about LD trains ?
While the train is moving along the ROW via the cell network (AT&T and Verizon)
oltmanndWhile the train is moving along the ROW via the cell network (AT&T and Verizon)
I thought part of the problem was that all the updating 'transactions' had to confirm before the system would let the train move safely.
oltmanndNS has been trying to run the Crescent on PTC for the past several weeks. I know at least one day, it make a huge mess of the Piedmont Div. The cell networks couldn't keep up with the data updates to be uploaded to the Amtrak train en route. Apparently, one train without good route data stops everything. Don't know if this is ongoing problem or not. Usually, route data for a trip is uploaded over WiFi at origin terminal. With Amtrak, apparently they upload just enough to get rolling and are supposed to do the rest while en route.
Is 'short routing' PTC a NS operating strategy or Amtraks response to some other NS PTC operating strategy?
When I retired in my area of responsibility, CSX had only made PTC operational on dark territories and PTC managed the limits of the authorities as well as Main Track Switch positions. Operations had not been started on signalled territory.
If multiple radio communications are required between the 'back room' and the train for every switch and signal on a route - and there are multiple trains operating on a line at the same time - there COULD be quite at bit of 'radio overload' on the assigned radio channels.
#20 6+ hours late in VA.
And now crew ran out of HOS so crew had to van down to LYH
Crescent Train 20 which departed New Orleans (NOL) on 11/23 is currently operating about 6 hours late due to freight train interference north of Tuscaloosa (TCL). Please check http://Amtrak.com for updates.
Crescent Train 20 which departed New Orleans (NOL) on 11/23 is currently stopped in Lynchburg (LYH) for unforeseen crew changes. More information to come
As of 10:00 PM 2200 Crescents operating today are all in the red or black as not on time 20 aarrived NYP 5+ hours late. Only other late LD is #1. Even Empire all trains in green with #8 arriving today early into CHI.
It is again NS snafu !!!
Just to keep things in turmoil. Not all NS delays are on 29 and 49, Crescent 1:37 late at ATL. ======= now.
Update: Crescent Train 19 that departed New York (NYP) on 12/13 is currently operating about 6hr 17min late due to freight train congestion, signal issues, speed restrictions and mechanical issues along the route south of Washington (WAS).
Now even if no more delays # 20 tomorrow will leave NOL late due to crew turn HOS ! Note # 19 leftCLT just 19 minutes late.
Crescent #19 lost 3 hours today ATL - Anniston then hit a car just south of BHM . Now 9 hours late with best NOL 8 hours late of 0330 AM.
http://www.wbrc.com/2018/12/16/killed-birmingham-train-accident/
Well # 19 lost another hour at Howell CP. This may be another CSX problem note this 3 alerts from Amtrak .Since the Star operates mostly on CSX pprobably their problem.
Crescent Train 19 which departed New York (NYP) on 12/19 is currently operating about 1 hr 44 min late due to Norfolk Southern Freight Train interference and host Railroad software issues along the route.
Silver Star Train 92 which departed Miami (MIA) on 12/19 is currently operating about 2 hr 56 min late due to Railroad congestion and host Railroad software issues along the route.
Silver Star Train 91 which departed New York (NYP) on 12/19 is currently operating about 2 hr 36 min late due to Railroad congestion and host Railroad software issues along the route.
EDIT Note Stars did not take delays on their NS portions.
blue streak 1Well # 19 lost another hour at Howell CP. This may be another CSX problem note this 3 alerts from Amtrak .Since the Star operates mostly on CSX pprobably their problem. Amtrak AlertsVerified account @AmtrakAlerts 3h3 hours ago More Crescent Train 19 which departed New York (NYP) on 12/19 is currently operating about 1 hr 44 min late due to Norfolk Southern Freight Train interference and host Railroad software issues along the route. Amtrak AlertsVerified account @AmtrakAlerts 2h2 hours ago More Silver Star Train 92 which departed Miami (MIA) on 12/19 is currently operating about 2 hr 56 min late due to Railroad congestion and host Railroad software issues along the route. Amtrak AlertsVerified account @AmtrakAlerts 2h2 hours ago More Silver Star Train 91 which departed New York (NYP) on 12/19 is currently operating about 2 hr 36 min late due to Railroad congestion and host Railroad software issues along the route. EDIT Note Stars did not take delays on their NS portions.
Sofware delays is sounding like PTC data issues and potentially line of road data issues.
BaltACD Sofware delays is sounding like PTC data issues and potentially line of road data issues.
Update: Palmetto Train 89/20 is currently operating about 2hr 15min late due to earlier host railroad software issues throughout the route and a vehicle blocking the tracks at Florence (FLO). Please check http://Amtrak.com or our mobile app for additional status updates.
Here it is Christmas week and 2 out of the three LD trains late are #19 /22 and #20/22 more than 3 hours. Now is getting stabbed both north and south of ATL. The results on this link show black for trains more than 3 hours late that travel 550+ miles.
https://asm.transitdocs.com/map
Again #19/23 & #20/23 are only Amtrak LD trains more than 3 hours late as of 1020 Monday morning. What is it with NS?
Here it is 2230 Christmas eve and the latest train system wide is #19/23 going toward NOL at over 3:30. No other trains are over 2 hours late. Guess what 19/24 has lost 1:20 WASH - '''''charlottesville. Only 3 other Amtrak trains ( That is all trains LD, SD, NEC ) are more than 1:00 but less than 1:30 late.(14,6,91 ) NS a big fat pew ! Note NS has allways been my favorite RR but ==============
blue streak 1Here it is 2230 Christmas eve and the latest train system wide is #19/23 going toward NOL at over 3:30. No other trains are over 2 hours late. Guess what 19/24 has lost 1:20 WASH - '''''charlottesville. Only 3 other Amtrak trains ( That is all trains LD, SD, NEC ) are more than 1:00 but less than 1:30 late.(14,6,91 ) NS a big fat pew ! Note NS has allways been my favorite RR but ==============
My understanding is the CSX is shutting down most all freight operations from 0700 Dec. 24 to 0700 Dec. 26. There should be very little if any CSX freight train interference to Amtrak over the holiday.
Weather cancellations south of BHM today! Guess 19 will turn to 20 somtime today/
Service Alert: Crescent Train 20 scheduled to depart New Orleans (NOL) on 12/28 is now canceled between NOL and Birmingham (BHM) due to severe weather in the area causing unforeseen track work on the host railroad. Alternate bus transportation will be provided between NOL & BHM.
Service Alert: Crescent Train 19 that departed New York (NYP) on 12/27 will terminate in Birmingham (BHM) due to severe weather in the area causing unforeseen track work on the host railroad. Alternate bus transportation will be provided between BHM and New Orleans (NOL).
Crescent #20 / 31 latest train system wide again. Arrived 3:59 late NYP. NS arrived it 4:14 at WASH. 1:07 late at Atlanta. North of ATL getting worse.
There is some kind of problem for the whole NS Crescent route. Noticed that many days both 19 and 20 has not exceeded 60 MPH between CLT ( Gastonia ) and Atlanta. That has caused both north and south bound Crescents to constantly loose 30 - 45 minutes between CLT and ATL. Now this alert today has come out. Anyone with more info ?
Crescent Train 20 which departed New Orleans (NOL) on 1/3 is currently operating about 4 hr 25 min late due to Railroad congestion and speed restrictions along the route.
December is much worse. As previously posted the trains north of ATL are all taking hits especially ATL <> CLT. A spot check for month shows all trains ATL <> CLT loosing about 45 - 60 minutes and only one or two times any Crescent showing train traveling over 60 MPH. The only bright spot was the trains beat schedule almost every trip Gastonia - Greensboro 30 - 45 minutes probably due to NCDOT's completion of complete two main tracking.
Did not count NYP - WASH due to Amtrak meeting schedule south bound and saving up to 1 hour north bound. This is a NS caused problem except for many CSX delays just south of ATL station.
28 RT trains operated in December. Here are delays
19. ATL 2 early 1:45 Average 1:32 Median.
NOL 1 early 3:51 Average 3:21 Median. 7 over 5 hours late which caused delays for next day's 20 departures.
20. ATL 1 early 2:38 Average 2:31 median
WAS 0 early 3:43 Average 3:47 Median
Looks bad for NS does't it ?
Contrast that with 7 at SEA AVG :08 MED :02
8 at CHI avg:36 M :03
49 CHI A -1:17 M - 1:14
48 NYP A - :56 M - :20
We cannot any longer fault the other known trains for delay compared with NS. BTW The Crescents for several Christmas time days were later than any other Amtrak train - LD , SD, and NEC !
Tonight Crescent #20 cannot get out of Atlanta. Its 8:04 departure was announced as finally leaving ATl 2 hours late. However it only made about 1-1/2 miles and has not moved as of 11"54. Here is original post announcing departure from ATL. This is not in anyway NS's fault. More problems with Amtrak P-42s. Cannot wait for SC-44s finally on LD trains? Wonder if NS will provide a leader tonight?
Update: Cresent Train 20 which departed Atlanta on 1/23 is now on the move currently operating about 2hr late due to an engine problem which has now been fixed outside of (ATL).
EDIT; Has not even made it past the Marta yard about 1 mile from Amtrak station.
After several false starts train finally began moving consistently aat about 1:50AM near Lenox square. Is now almost 6:00 late1!
Update: Cresent Train 20 which departed Atlanta on 1/23 is currently operating about 4hr 30min late due to an engine problem which has now been fixed outside of (ATL).
For most days of Jan the Crescent is not meeting max speeds north of Atlanta. Several days check showed them not exceeding 70 MPH and mostly not over 60 MPH.
Tonight ATL - GNS not even over 51 MPH and ended up over an hour late at GNS. What is going on?
Amtrak 20/20 is now 13:53 late at Spartanburg. NS gettting away with murder?
UPDATE: Crescent Train 20 which departed New Orleans (NOL) on 2/20 is currently operating about 7 hr 10 min late due to weather-related delays, mechanical issues, and Norfolk Southern Freight Train interference along the route.
Not all of delay due to NS as a car on track delaying 19/20 as well. Appears NS let freight trains stack up behind the car causing # 20/20 no way to get around freights? However it will make 20/22 late out of NOL unless Amtrak can pull a rabbit out of the hat.
EDIT: 20 lost 6:35 between Greenville and Greer. 19/20 lost 2:01 at same location.
Had to really not wanted to revive this thread. However it is getting worse. For Calendar year 2020 so far arrivals of #19 at NOL are average of 2:37 late . That is with an average of gaining :25 minutes slidel - NOL. (3:02 avg late sdl ). Now 20 arrivals at ATL 2:12 average late. Crescent is loosing about 20 - 30 minutes each way ATL - CLT. # 19 has had a fairly good arrival at CLT averaging just :15 minutes late.
This is NS's worse route. Even though there are more trains in Michigan and Indiana the total minutes delayed are more on the Crescent.
Another bad day today. Despite fewer delays nationwide the Crescent is still getting more delays south of CLT.. #19 over 5 hours late in Mississippi tonight. and #20 1+ hours late north of ATL.
For month of FEB 4:05 late at Slidel. Note some what less late at NOL due to schedule padding.
Again #20 tonight 3:12 late at Anniston. Now it has been delayed just before Howell CP for already 1:30 . No information if it is because of NS or more probably a CSX freight blocking the CP ?
EDIT: Final delay 2:05 anniston - ATL
Just to beat a dead hourse again. 19 and 20 Crescents are still taking most of their delays south of ATL. For instance today both 19 and 20 lost over an hour each way betweel Tuscaloosa, Al and Meridian, Ms. NS just does not see to have enough infrastructure for freights and passenger trains south of Atlanta.
This portioon of the route seems a good candiate for the proposed on time operation penalties.?
Here it is July 4th and nationwide only 19 is over 2 hours late again. Been over 2 hours late after Anniston all the way to Hattiesburg
The Crescent has been uber reliable north of Atlanta since COVID. Almost never late a significant amount.
oltmannd The Crescent has been uber reliable north of Atlanta since COVID. Almost never late a significant amount.
My posts about Crescent's on time south of ATL should be moved to this subject line.
Moving this to proper topic section.
What in the world is going on with the Cresecents NOL <> ATL?. For the last 2 days they have been within less than 10 minutes late. Today 20 has left BHM on time anniston 6 late and 19 is approaching Slidel a couple minutes late. Still time to delay to NOL and ATL and will be checking. CSX just waiting to delay 20 an hour or more at ATL CP Howell.
This OTP is certainly not the usual Crescent's delays both ways have almost always taken 2 - 3 hour delays since Jan 1.
19/8 is running late south of ATL but was Amtrak's fault delaying it at WASH.
Cannot believe it #20 / 11 not over 8 minutes late all way to ATL except 44 late at TCL. Left ATL on time. What has happened at NS dispatch?
Did not catch 19/13 but 20 / 13 no more than 25 late at TCL again all other stations less . Arrived ATL early.
Once again the 1:30+ schedule padding between Laurel and BHM is allowing for some on time operations. 19/18th arrived NOL close to on time 20/ 19th arrived 10 early ATL after arriving TCL 44 late. Unfortunately 20 now late at Gainesville 1:15 due to tresspasser.
All these recent posts indicate you might have to start a new thread, or retitle this one to something like 'Amtrak now knifing through Atlanta' rather than getting stabbed there.
EDIT -- well done!
19 and 20 another good day south of ATL Aug 21st. Delays as usual somewhere between BHM - Laurel but arrivals NOL and ATL OK.
this NS handling of the Crescent is getting rediculous. 20/11 sep once again TCL seems apex of of delays. arrived TCL 44 late left 43 late and arrived BHM 18 minutes early. So that leg has at least 1:01 schedule slop. Other times 19 and 20 loose time between TCL and BHM. 97 miles.
#20/11 arrived ATL 15 early.
All good things will come to an end. A stella on time performance the last few week south of ATL and and mainly north of of Atlanta.
#20 hit a predestrian just SW of BHM. Took a 1 hour delay and another 2 hours at BHN probably mechanical work or swaping locos. Arrived ATL 3:47 late t 0247. Problem is that inbound #20 crew takes #19 out of ATL. Amtrak not yet posted but 19 probably will not leave before 11:17 instead of 0908.
For the last couple weeks Crescent has mostly been on time . But, #20 / 11 Oct took a 1-1/2 hour delay at Howell CP due to CSX blocking the crossing.
NS apparently caused another bad day - night for #20 /12 Oct. Instead of the 3 hours carded from Anniston to ATL took seven hours. From Anniston to almost Howell CP speed never exceeded 30 MPH. Lost almost 5 hours instead of 2 (best tiime)1 - 3/4. Almost like it followed a freight from Anniston to Howell. Then # 20 lost an additional 2 - 1/2 hours at Howell. Probably CSX blocking at Howell but not positive. Left ATL at 07'04. For today only a one time day train from ATL = WASH.
So we're just guessing?
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
zugmann So we're just guessing
So we're just guessing
Does anyone actually ride that train?
Penny a point... ain't no one keepin' score.
Gramp Penny a point... ain't no one keepin' score.
CSSHEGEWISCH Gramp Penny a point... ain't no one keepin' score. As Steve Goodman would point out, wrong train.
Same passing time activities happen wherever less than full real time attention to duties happens - CNO or Crescent or any other train of limited patronage.
You're being too literal, CSS. And the steel rail still ain't heard the news.
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