They do just that today when track maintenance is required.
Again, this was not a regular procedure. (Loading the frieghtcar.)
daveklepperThe PRR had plenty of steam locomotives to spot a freight car at a [Harrison] platform during night periods when there were long gaps between joint service trains, but I am not certain that both platforms were used, and suspect only one.
H&M trains were hourly (or more frequent) in each direction all night. Think H&M single-tracked from Journal Square to Newark?
If you look at the upper right hand corner of your map you will see the legend "correct as of 1-1-68." This was still in the days of private railroads. When it came to sharing facilities they absolutely refused (unless there was a financial connection) because they believed it would reduce there profits. This was part of their traditional "public be d@mned" philosophy articulated so well by William H. Vanderbilt.
Everyone take a look at this map: http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Prr/Maps/Itlk/dock.gif
Sorry, I forgot to add the link.
alloboard Everyone take a look at this map. This should explain everything. I believe that the last connection between the PRR and the H&M now PATH has been removed. This map says built Sept 18,1910 rebuilt in May 22,1937 when Manhattan Transfer became obsolete, and was last revised in April 29,1967. If you look at the map, as of 1967 there were direct connections between the westbound and eastbound tracks.Now the question is what is the story regarding what I believe is now the Kearney Connection. It is now a flying junction which I believe that the flat interchange between the PRR and the H&M has been converted into a flying Junction. Historically The Erie railroad later Erie Lackawanna now NJT's Morris and Essex county lines had crossed the PRR "grade separated', but I do not see that in this map why not?
Everyone take a look at this map. This should explain everything. I believe that the last connection between the PRR and the H&M now PATH has been removed. This map says built Sept 18,1910 rebuilt in May 22,1937 when Manhattan Transfer became obsolete, and was last revised in April 29,1967. If you look at the map, as of 1967 there were direct connections between the westbound and eastbound tracks.Now the question is what is the story regarding what I believe is now the Kearney Connection. It is now a flying junction which I believe that the flat interchange between the PRR and the H&M has been converted into a flying Junction. Historically The Erie railroad later Erie Lackawanna now NJT's Morris and Essex county lines had crossed the PRR "grade separated', but I do not see that in this map why not?
I couldn't find the map you are referring to...but the Erie RR never was a factor. The DL&W's main line went under the PRR main to Pennsylvania Station where NJT's Mid Town Direct now joins the Corridor. The DL&W was the Morris and Essex or Morristown Line and the DL&W merged with the Erie to form the Erie Lackawanna.
HOWEVER AND MORE to this thread...the pictures reveal there is no cat over the westbound track. But there are lots of wires. I think the train I was riding was on track 3 into Harrison and the cat I saw was over track 5...I was looking up to see the wires and not down to see the tracks. Apparently. But earlier maps do show wire over the then H&M, and I do remember riding the DL&W and seeing wire over the H&M westbound track. NJT track diagrams do not show any junction of PATH and AMTRAK/NJT/CSX track but there is an interchange further east near Journal Sq.
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This should explain everything. I believe that the last connection between the PRR and the H&M now PATH has been removed. This map says built Sept 18,1910 rebuilt in May 22,1937 when Manhattan Transfer became obsolete, and was last revised in April 29,1967. If you look at the map, as of 1967 there were direct connections between the westbound and eastbound tracks.Now the question is what is the story regarding what I believe is now the Kearney Connection. It is now a flying junction which I believe that the flat interchange between the PRR and the H&M has been converted into a flying Junction. Historically The Erie railroad later Erie Lackawanna now NJT's Morris and Essex county lines had crossed the PRR "grade separated', but I do not see that in this map why not?
Did the PRR and the Seaboard Airline Railroad form Washington DC to Florida work hand in hand?
During WWII there was a wide gap between the joint service cars and the platforms at Harrison, according to what I remember. I cannot be certain if this existed before WWII, but I think it did. This was corrected after the war ended. I remember the platforms being of wood construction, not the current concrete platforms. The PRR had plenty of steam locomotives to spot a freight car at a platform during night periods when there were long gaps between joint service trains, but I am not certain that both platforms were used, and suspect only one. And this was not a regular proceedure, just a special move. So the use for freight and the existance of catenary are separate issues. The PRR steam locomotives were generally built to clear regular high platform stations and did run through North Philly when that had been so equipped.
I would suggest, however, that if the westbound PATH track has catenary, it probably always did have catenary. And that would have been the platform where the occasional special freightcar was loaded during WWII.
Some pics of the westward PATH at Harrison
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jag9889/4450569265/sizes/l
http://www.flickr.com/photos/milantram/4420520303/sizes/o
http://www.flickr.com/photos/trevonhaywood/8047626879/sizes/l
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kpmarek/2686024929/sizes/o
and one of the eastward
http://www.flickr.com/photos/1987porsche944/426203025/sizes/l
Here's one of the westward track approaching Newark
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=85367
schlimm Maybe try Google map streetview?
Maybe try Google map streetview?
I just did but can't tell. What may have happened is that we were coming in on track 3 and I saw wire above on track 5...but I hope someone there can help us out...
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Then you told him okay, you can take it down now. Did anyone get pics while it was up?
In fact they did just that, TIMZ. Joe Boardman used be the Commissioner of Transportation here in Binghamton, NY and I knew him back int he 80's, so I called him and asked if he could have his forces put up a catanary wire on the westbound PATH track through Harrison, NJ station. He replied that he needed until the end of February to get it done and I said ok and when I went there at the end of February there it was..
henry6there was a catanary over the PATH track into and through Harrison Station.
Don't recall the situation east of Harrison. The tracks that PRR and H&M shared had catenary-- some of that catenary's still there. But no reason the H&M-only tracks would ever have had catenary.
The Passaic River Pennsylvania Railroad Newark, New Jersey draw bridge. It is between Newark Pennsylvania Station on the west and Harrison Station on the east. Four main tracks for the Corridor plus an eastbound and westbound track for the PATH. Theoretically you cannot take pictures at Harrison station because The Port of New York and New Jersey Authority does not allow taking pictures of their facilities and they will stop you: crews will yell at you and notify their police department to come and get you. However, I didn't know that and was taking pictures on the eastbound platform before being told not to...I did stop but had already gotten some shots away before I got away. None of my pictures show wire over the eastbound track and in fact shows eastbound track west of the station and before the bridge not having any crossovers so that wire would not be needed there. Westbound, however, cannot be determined from the pictures. All I know is after seeing a discussion here some months ago I was determined to check things out. On Thursday Feb 28, we boarded a train at Secaucus Jct., I sat on the right side and watched out the window...there was a catanary over the PATH track into and through Harrison Station. I mentioned it on that thread discussing it at the time and someone confirmed what I saw. I will not be getting down that way again for quite a while so if anybody down there can take a look and make sure, would appreciate it. My eye doctor says I do not need new glasses, but he's not a psychiatrist. The NJT track diagrams do not show a connection but they only show tracks they would be using...
All the way to which bridge?
You sure you mean west, and not east?
I'm not there to see, but I believe there was cat over the eastbound side all the way to the bridge a couple of years ago. There are little extensions off the main cat bridges that carried it. I suspect that is what you saw; perhaps we have potential confusion between 'west side' and 'westbound' although I'm not sure how that can be.
Odd that I cannot find a photo of that side that shows the wire clearly. Somebody find one and post it here.
henry6I was there I saw it
henry6 I'm sure it went through the station to comeback out to track 3 just west of the platform and east end of bridge.
Sorry...I was there I saw it....Saw my eye doctor the week before, too.
But, in looking at NJT track diagrams there are no track connections indicated to the PATH tracks anyplace...what I maybe saw, according to the diagram, is track 5 or 6 east of the station, but I'm sure it went through the station to comeback out to track 3 just west of the platform and east end of bridge.
henry6Earlier this year I took particular notice of the catenary overhead on the westbound PATH track to the crossover at the west end of Harrison station.
Earlier this year I took particular notice of the catenary overhead on the westbound PATH track to the crossover at the west end of Harrison station. Pictures indicate no wire over the eastbound PATH track.
henry6There was and still is catenary over the PATH, nee H&M tracks at Harrison.
There was and still is catenary over the PATH, nee H&M tracks at Harrison. What use it gets is another story, but I did view it this winter myself.
B&O used RDG to Bound Brook and CNJ to CNJ's Jersey City terminal except for the time it was ordered to use Penn Sta. in Newark. Therefore the connection was to the LV which already was using the Hunter junction to the PRR. LV also had a Jersey City waterfront terminal which was later abandoned in favor of PRR's Exchange Pl. until only the Penn Station, NY service was offered. The CNJ's line to Newark was direct from Jersey City (HBLRT uses the ROW in JC today) and from Elizabethport and was stubbed at Newark.
Basically similar to the way Rariton Valley ex-CNJ line trains get to Newark today with slight variation. There always was a connection between the CNJ and the LV at Bound Brook, and a connection between the LV and the PRR. There were differences, since the PRR line through Newark was differently located, and the PRR and LV had separate stations, with the connection east of them. But the CNJ did not that a through line through Newark, seving it on a branch from Elizabethport.
timz Like he said B&O trains ran to NY Penn for a few years-- never occurred to me to wonder how. What track did they use to get on PRR?
Like he said B&O trains ran to NY Penn for a few years-- never occurred to me to wonder how. What track did they use to get on PRR?
Remember that B&O used RDG-Jersey Central to get to the New York area in the first place. Then look at how traffic got to the Arthur Kill bridge and then Staten Island. Then consider how LV passenger trains got to NYP.
The precise route is covered on the Web. Basically it involved the same arrangement via Hunter Tower to Harrison/Manhattan Transfer. No particular difficulty or surprise I can see, but I'll cheerfully defer to those who know more about this.
timzke he said B&O trains ran to NY Penn for a few years-- never occurred to me to wonder how.
As far as the "how" is concerned it began during WWI when the railroads were nationalized.
daveklepperPRR and H&M-PRR joint service trains at one brief time did use the same platforms at Harrison.
daveklepperHowever, frieght was on occasion loaded or unloaded on those platforms during WWII. At one time there was caternary as well as third rail.
CSSHEGEWISCH While the O'Hare station on the Blue Line serves the airport exclusively with no other transit connections, the Midway station also has multiple connections with various CTA and Pace surface bus routes. Much of the passenger volume at Midway may be from transit connections and daily commuters.
While the O'Hare station on the Blue Line serves the airport exclusively with no other transit connections, the Midway station also has multiple connections with various CTA and Pace surface bus routes. Much of the passenger volume at Midway may be from transit connections and daily commuters.
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