Any News from Cheyenne on the 4014 Big Boy?

[Big Boy Forever]

Anyone heard anything lately about restoration progress on the Big Boy at the Cheyenne Shop?

[Anonymous]

I don't think we'll be hearing much until her first steam tests a few years from now.

[Big Boy Forever]

Seems like there would be updates on dismantling, parts inspection condition, refurbishing, machining, manufacturing of unfixable parts, repair, assembly etc. something similar to what UP did with the 4014 at Pomona California.

[Cwex]

The 4014 has been outside the shop with the crane, things are being done. I am not surprised that there haven't been any updates, they have enough going on in that shop right now.

[thomas81z]

Ohh I thought it was done last last week ?? Wow their slow , lol

[garyla]

This may not be news to any of you guys, but it was to me. I recently read that 4014 will be converted from burning coal to #5 oil. Some old literature I had about that Big Boy (and the other locomotives in the collection at Pomona) had suggested that the necessity of fuel conversion would be a deal-killer for ever putting 4014 back into operation. I'm glad that that was NOT the case. We can probably look forward to a story, eventually, about what all went into changing that part of the engine's workings.

[Anonymous]

Apparently when the Big Boys were first put into service, UP took one and tried to convert it to oil. They didn't use enough burners, though, and could not produce enough heat for it to work, so all the big boys were ordered as coal burners.

Lucky thing they weren't oil burners! WWII fuel rations would have probably kept them from running!

This time around, however, UP will be using enough burners to make it work.

I kind of wish they were going to run 4014 as coal burner, though. Wonder why all their steamers are oil burners? (That's probably a stupid question.)

[West Coast S]

All four thousands were delivered as coal burners, 4005 was selected for conversion using a burner from a FEF, fuel consumption not performance doomed the project.. 

Dave 

 

 

[Cwex]

Exactly, and the fact that the UP didn't want to spend the $$$ for line side refueling stations. It was planned from the beginning to convert the 4014 to oil, otherwise it would be limited to traveling in Wyoming only.

[Anonymous]

Aaaaaaahhhh...... I see, the situation's reversed! Now they don't want to spend money building coaling stations! ha!

[NorthWest]

The way I understand it, UP was tired of fighting grass fires from all the sparks hitting the ground. (Diamond stacks somehow aren't an acceptable solution.) This wasn't a problem in regular service with the daily passing of steam.

[Firelock76]

Oil fueling's a lot easier.  It's easier to refuel with a pump than a bucket loader, especially since more than likely all the coaling towers are gone, or at least gutted.  And oil does put out more BTU's than coal does.

And if they have to they can burn diesel fuel.  The CP did it with their showpiece steamer.  It's oil fired as well and doesn't care what it burns.

Everyone's going to miss that coal smoke smell though, but hey, you can't have everything.

[Cwex]

Yes, refueling with oil from a semi is MUCH easier than having coal staged at various locations along the route. And no worry about any line side fires.

[Big Boy Forever]

garyla

This may not be news to any of you guys, but it was to me. I recently read that 4014 will be converted from burning coal to #5 oil. Some old literature I had about that Big Boy (and the other locomotives in the collection at Pomona) had suggested that the necessity of fuel conversion would be a deal-killer for ever putting 4014 back into operation. I'm glad that that was NOT the case. We can probably look forward to a story, eventually, about what all went into changing that part of the engine's workings.

Oil conversion was the plan with 4014 from the beginning. The entire interior cab front panel with valve control wheels and such will be replaced.

[Cwex]

The stoker motors, auger will be removed, along with the grates, ash pan, jets, blast plate and so on. I wonder if a single burner will be used or a dual burner set up????

[Anonymous]

Probably a duel burner set up, when 4005 was converted to test how well big boys would run on oil, one wasn't enough.

Of course, UP will most likely make one large custom burner for 4014.

[Cwex]

I am looking forward to seeing just what they end up doing, and how well they are able to fire the 4014. I know they have the drawings from the 4005's conversion so we will just have to see.

[West Coast S]

No need to re-invent the wheel...a two burner design does exist that could fulfill a 4000;s requirements courtesy of the late Espee which developed and licensed a sucessfull burner and jet system  used on all of its late model steam but excelled on the AC's and 4400's, Santa Fe too employed the design with equal sucess.

Dave 

[Big Boy Forever]

Guess no one else cares much about it on this forum. Here is an update. http://www.up.com/aboutup/special_trains/steam/photos_videos/bigboy/2014_august.shtml

[puffy]

No one seems to be addressing the simple logistics of resupply. The typical coaling tower was capable of depositing the equivalent of a old standard hopper car of coal in the tender in a matter of seconds. Take the Reading T-1 tender water capacity of 30,000 gallons. That would take the typical fire truck 30 minutes to fill up, stabbing any schedule. And not a peep out of anyone on where you drop the ash pan! Bye the way, Firelock76, I was always taught that carbon was more BTU dense than hydrogen. How does oil turn out to be more BTU dense than coal?

[Firelock76]

Puffy, I can't give you a chemical analysis as to why oil puts out more BTU's than coal, I'm no chemist.  I got my information from the late George Drury's "Guide to North American Steam", in which there's a discussion of steam locomotive fuels; wood, coal, oil.  Drury said oil was the most efficient as far as heat output, his exact wording was "oil has more heat output per pound than coal", to say nothing of the ease of handling, and no ashes or cinders to deal with.

Possibly oil puts out more heat since it has to be atomized and sprayed making for more complete combustion?  Maybe some of you chemists or engineers out there can shed a bit more light on this one.

As far as that coal smoke smell we're all going to miss, maybe UP can get together with JT's "Mega-Steam", the model railroad smoke fluid manufacturer.  Just throw a gallon or two (or a hundred) of coal-scented "Mega-Steam"  in the fuel oil and the problem's solved!

And if people get bored with "Coal Smoke"  UP can try "Coffee", "Cinnimon Bun",  "Bacon and Eggs", "Grandpa's Pipe Smoke", or maybe "Lionel Smoke Pellet"!

[AgentKid]

Firelock76

Possibly oil puts out more heat since it has to be atomized and sprayed making for more complete combustion

That was what I have always understood. The province of BC passed legislation requiring oil burners to reduce the forest fire problem, but once the CPR started using them they were never going back to coal, especially in mountain service.

Bruce

[puffy]

Firelock76, it turns out that you are right. Coal ranges from 10,750 to 14,340 BTU/lb. #1 fuel oil (kerosene) is 132,900-137,000 BTU/gal. On the basis of "a pint's a pound the world around", divide the gallon by eight(8) and you get an approximate (16,600 BTU/lb). At one point the UP was using Bunker C (at 152,000BTU/gal)in their diesels. You will note that, as the oil gets heavier, there is more carbon content. That makes it more BTU-dense. Pure hydrogen, on an equivalent per unit basis, has only half the BTUs/unit of #1 fuel oil. On the subject of coal smoke, what you are smelling is mostly sulphur but there are other minerals as well. But high-sulphur crude just does not smell the same. In the early days many railroads burner crude directly without refining. You are also correct that no ashes or cinders were involved. In coal territory the length of a typical division in the late steam era was defined by the amount of ashpan capacity whereas no problem for oil fired.

[Firelock76]

Thanks for the kind words Puffy, but I wasn't the one who was right.  The late Mr. Drury was, I just passed on his information, that's all.

By the way, if you ever see a copy of Drury's  "Guide to North American Steam", grab it!  It's out of print now as I understand, but it's a real gold mine of information.   Maybe Kalmbach will print it again if there's enough demand.

How about it, Kalmbach?

[Big Boy Forever]

UP steam shop doesn't say much.

What has it been now, 2 reports on the shop in the past year, and nothing on the actual teardown and inspection of the Big Boy?

[stdgauge]

From what I read on other forums, I'm not very hopeful about the UP Steam program.

[ROBERT WILLISON]

Odd they made such a media event out of moving her. Now no up dates. Got to make you wonder.

[Leo_Ames]

They just gave a presentation a few days ago. Not sure why anyone thinks that there's any trouble there. Almost like a few are hoping that there is. 

[ROBERT WILLISON]

So what did up say?

[thomas81z]

Firelock76

Thanks for the kind words Puffy, but I wasn't the one who was right.  The late Mr. Drury was, I just passed on his information, that's all.

By the way, if you ever see a copy of Drury's  "Guide to North American Steam", grab it!  It's out of print now as I understand, but it's a real gold mine of information.   Maybe Kalmbach will print it again if there's enough demand.

How about it, Kalmbach?

 

just bought my 2nd copy for 8 bucks