writing train orders

[zapp]

Nope!

[Anonymous]

Oh, I forgot to ask . . . no more flimsies, then?

[Anonymous]

Thanks, guys, this makes much better sense of things. I also now (finally!) understand why movements can be made without recourse to a printed timetable; this is something friends have asked but prior to now I wasn't able to answer it well.

[zapp]

I believe we have a communication problem.
Our"train orders" or bulletins give us track conditions and other specific information.
Now in CTC the dispatcher can give my conductor a slow order (generally he writes on whatever is available in front of him and I write it on my orders.
Track Warrents are giving permission to operate on the main line. They also give meeting points,slow orders,etc...
It takes a while to learn how to copy a track warrent, because these dispatchers have been doing this for a long time and they just rattle them off pretty quick.That being said us "old heads" rattle it,or try to,back as fast or faster. When we take a new hire out over the BNSF they do their warrents differnet and it's difficult for the new guys so I'll do it (though it's against the rules). Alot of the time the dispatcher if you have someone really screwing up,will ask that someone else copy it or put yoou in the hole until you can get it right.

[dehusman]

Track warrants superceded train ordes back in the 80's, late 90's. Track warrants are a fill in the blank form that the dispatcher can issue over the radio to the crews.

Form D's are used in the east (NORAC rules) and track warrants are used in the west (GCOR rules). Basically the same thing. In CTC, a track warrant is primarily used in much the same way a "clearance" was used in train order operations, as a listing or reciept for all the bulletins, its often called a "track warrant for bulletins". In any other type of operation, signalled or unsignalled, track warrants are also the means of granting authority to operate on the main track outside of yard limits.

So yes, if you are in ABS territory (block signals) you absolutely need a warrant (or DTC authority, etc).

Dave H.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by smalling_60626

Once again, I'm confused: is a track warrant just a new name for written orders, or is it some entirely different form of communication with a different--though similar--purpose? Can track warrants be used outside CTC areas and if so, does their use in ABS areas differ? Is it to be assumed that all loco's now have radio too?

Firstly, in CTC, signals control train movements safely and efficiently, so there is no need for track warrants. The only difference between TWC in signalled and dark territory is that in signalled territory, two trains can follow each other within the same limits, because the signals keep them at a safe distance.

A Track Warrant is different from a Train Order in that Track Warrants are the principal means of movement control on their lines. TO's on the other hand were only used when a change was needed to the timetable because something went wrong (derailment, late train, so forth).

Sincerely,
Daniel Parks

[jchnhtfd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by smalling_60626

Once again, I'm confused: is a track warrant just a new name for written orders, or is it some entirely different form of communication with a different--though similar--purpose? Can track warrants be used outside CTC areas and if so, does their use in ABS areas differ? Is it to be assumed that all loco's now have radio too?

on the radio -- and signals, and CTC and all that. Yes, all engines are supposed to have radio. And the signals are supposed to light, and the CTC is supposed to work. Sometimes it doesn't, though... and that's where the train orders and track warrants and other old fashioned paper and pencil stuff comes in.

[Anonymous]

Once again, I'm confused: is a track warrant just a new name for written orders, or is it some entirely different form of communication with a different--though similar--purpose? Can track warrants be used outside CTC areas and if so, does their use in ABS areas differ? Is it to be assumed that all loco's now have radio too?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mackb4

trainjunky29 that's wild,I couldn't imagine getting a track warrant for signaled territory.Whats the purpose of a signal or the reliance of it?We have track time form 23a's that give us permission to go in boths directions on a outlined point a to b track.But that is still in signaled territory and all signal rules still comply.The maintance of way uses the 23a's to occupy track to do work.And then on the back side of the form is an area for the (mow) person who got the permitt to allow joint occupancy with other(mow) people.Gets real complicated at times.

Dear Mack,
Block signals serve three purposes: operate trains more safely, keep the flagman from having to walk back for flag protection, and allowing trains to operate closer together on high speed lines. Block signals will, of course, not control train movements. You need some system to tell trains how to go where when. Otherwise, within a few hours, your railroad will be inching along at restricted speed past stop and proceed signals. A timetable can efficiently move trains, a track warrant can, or DTC can, but something is needed whether there are signals or not--CTC excepted, of course.

Sincerely,
Daniel Parks

[mackb4]

trainjunky29 that's wild,I couldn't imagine getting a track warrant for signaled territory.Whats the purpose of a signal or the reliance of it?We have track time form 23a's that give us permission to go in boths directions on a outlined point a to b track.But that is still in signaled territory and all signal rules still comply.The maintance of way uses the 23a's to occupy track to do work.And then on the back side of the form is an area for the (mow) person who got the permitt to allow joint occupancy with other(mow) people.Gets real complicated at times.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for your help, everyone. What I was basically asking about was some type of order form job, which I assumed was still called "train orders". I would have thought that today train crews might be tightly connected by satellites and possibly email, but I also felt that, of course, there would still have to be some human element involved in giving the basic instructions to train crews. Basically I was sitting at work, filling out our forms giving instructions to construction bidders and the like, and started wondering how lucrative the field is for directing train schedules, and whether I might be cut out for it. A bit more info about myself: I graduated college (University of California, Riverside) in 2004 with a BA in Creative Writing. So basically writing is my main forte. But I think I'm pretty adaptable to most subjects-I didn't know anything about the construction industry when I first started my current job, and now I think I have a much better idea of how that process works.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mackb4

Track warrants are for DARK territory.Train orders are for every railroad that has signaled track.That track is known as (abs)automatic block system or (tc)traffic control.Here on the Kenova district of the NS in which I work we are (tc) from Portsmouth Ohio to Williamson WVa.We get train orders everytime we report to work fo mainline movement.When a shifter out of Kenova WVa or out of Williamson is to work a non-siginaled branch they are to get a track warrant from the dispatcher by radio or by phone.The track warrant has it stated at what station (where they are physicaly located on a train)and from point a to point b where they are going once they start in to dark territory .If I can get my scanner up and running I will scan a copy of the cover sheet of one of my old train orders and a track warrant.I'm used to running in siginaled territory,and I understand that alot of track out west is still dark territory.The WVa secondary is mostly dark from Charlestown WVa to Columbus Ohio.Alot of guys have transferred from it to where I work and they said they also got train orders for that route.

Track Warrants are also used on signaled territory, such as BNSF's Raton and Glorieta Subdivisions and part of UP's Santa Barbara Subdivision.

[mackb4]

Track warrants are for DARK territory.Train orders are for every railroad that has signaled track.That track is known as (abs)automatic block system or (tc)traffic control.Here on the Kenova district of the NS in which I work we are (tc) from Portsmouth Ohio to Williamson WVa.We get train orders everytime we report to work fo mainline movement.When a shifter out of Kenova WVa or out of Williamson is to work a non-siginaled branch they are to get a track warrant from the dispatcher by radio or by phone.The track warrant has it stated at what station (where they are physicaly located on a train)and from point a to point b where they are going once they start in to dark territory .If I can get my scanner up and running I will scan a copy of the cover sheet of one of my old train orders and a track warrant.I'm used to running in siginaled territory,and I understand that alot of track out west is still dark territory.The WVa secondary is mostly dark from Charlestown WVa to Columbus Ohio.Alot of guys have transferred from it to where I work and they said they also got train orders for that route.

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jchnhtfd
But... is it possible that you had something else in mind, such as requests for service? Were you thinking of a 'train order' as something along the lines of 'I need six clean 100 ton covered hoppers at Havelock on the 33rd of August'? That's a very different thing.

Can't possibly have them for you until the 34th.[:D]

[jchnhtfd]

The thing to remember about track warrants or, in the old days, train orders, is that they were a communication from the dispatcher to the train crew, directly or (again, in the old days) through the local operator. While there was and is surely an amazing variety of forms involved, it all boiled down to direct instructions to the train crew, which often could be a matter of life and death if messed up. Which is why they were sent, read back (word by word -- and in the old days, each word underlined as read back!) and signed.

But... is it possible that you had something else in mind, such as requests for service? Were you thinking of a 'train order' as something along the lines of 'I need six clean 100 ton covered hoppers at Havelock on the 33rd of August'? That's a very different thing.

[exPalaceDog]

Originally posted by andyjay

I currently work writing notices for public works projects. Basically I spell out the basics about certain projects going on and pass them on to the appropriate consultant. So given this work experience (I've been on this job half a year now), I recently wondered what it might be like to write train orders. Who exactly does this work? Do the railroads have a stock of order writers, or do they contract with various agencies or other firms? How well does it usually pay?
[/quote

Not too creative!

The formats are dictated by the rule book. The dispatcher simply decidesd what needs to happen and issues the order using the working specified in the rule book.

Have fun

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