QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard This wouldn’t happen to be the wonderful, Open Access System Mr. Sol touts in another thread? You know the one that benefits all of us.... Works just like we though it would.... (edited, as Mr Sol was correct, he didnt say it was free, he did say the benifits were free)
Originally posted by greyhounds Well, I'm a Lake County resident (temporaily relocated to Florida) and that gap is a real PITA. You still see bumper stickers that say "Build 53". But I'll argue that it wouldn't have made any difference if it had been a Federal project. The NIMBY's would still have at least tried to block it. Shoot Fire! There was a pipeline comming through to bring badly needed Canadian crude oil to the Chicago refineries and they tried to block that! A freaking underground pipeline that is out of sight and underneath everything. They fought that. A real consequence of the failure to build the safer, grade seperated, limited access route is that people are put at risk traveling the outdated road system and energy is wasted in the congestion. It also causes people to travel longer routes to avoid the congestion, literally wasting gasoline at $2.69/gallon. /quote] That stretch of road should have been built 40 years ago. The story I've heard is it would go through Kemper National golf course and/or the back yards of some very important political supporters who live in Long Grove and Hawthorne Woods. Lately it's turning into a real Pork Barrel as more and more money is spent on upgrading/bypassing junctions with other raods while the towns along it continue building strip malls, each with 2 stop lights that change against the flow of traffic whever a bird flies by the sensors. The Wisconsin segment isn't completely isolated as it connects to the freeway that runs from Milwaukee to Beloit. Reply Edit greyhounds Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Antioch, IL 4,371 posts Posted by greyhounds on Sunday, August 14, 2005 10:10 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by jeaton QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal Jay, Don't laugh! Just a few years ago the State of Montana had a very nice two lane highway that ran up to Thompson Pass at the Idaho/Montana border. When you crossed over the border to Idaho, it basically turned into a narrow twisting logging road! They've fixed up the Idaho side of the road since then. It wasn't a joke. Wisconsin had a plan to have a freeway between the Illinois state line near Richmond, IL and Madison. It would have been part of a freeway running off I-90 at Schaumburg, IL, which would have provided an excellent short route between northwest surburban Chicago and points in the southeast Wisconsin and beyond. The route 53 freeway ends 6 miles north of the origin point because the state of Illinois bowed to political pressure from Lake County, Illinois residents that did not want to loose their "rural" environment. The Wisconsin freeway segment runs from the state line to Elkhorn, WI. and serves three communities with populations of less than 10,000, plus the odd driver that wants to take the "scenic" route. The joke is on the Lake County residents, as the population there has exploded. I have no sympathy for their complaints about traffic. Well, I'm a Lake County resident (temporaily relocated to Florida) and that gap is a real PITA. You still see bumper stickers that say "Build 53". But I'll argue that it wouldn't have made any difference if it had been a Federal project. The NIMBY's would still have at least tried to block it. Shoot Fire! There was a pipeline comming through to bring badly needed Canadian crude oil to the Chicago refineries and they tried to block that! A freaking underground pipeline that is out of sight and underneath everything. They fought that. A real consequence of the failure to build the safer, grade seperated, limited access route is that people are put at risk traveling the outdated road system and energy is wasted in the congestion. It also causes people to travel longer routes to avoid the congestion, literally wasting gasoline at $2.69/gallon. "By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that. Reply edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Saturday, August 13, 2005 7:06 PM This wouldn’t happen to be the wonderful, Open Access System Mr. Sol touts in another thread? You know the one that benefits all of us.... Works just like we though it would.... (edited, as Mr Sol was correct, he didnt say it was free, he did say the benifits were free) Ed 23 17 46 11 Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 13, 2005 6:44 PM I don't think anyone maintains that ALL of the recent omnibus infrastructure act is made of pork, but I have heard estimates of thirty percent or more--pet projects, usually. Reply Edit jeaton Member sinceSeptember 2002 From: Rockton, IL 4,821 posts Posted by jeaton on Saturday, August 13, 2005 11:46 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal Jay, Don't laugh! Just a few years ago the State of Montana had a very nice two lane highway that ran up to Thompson Pass at the Idaho/Montana border. When you crossed over the border to Idaho, it basically turned into a narrow twisting logging road! They've fixed up the Idaho side of the road since then. It wasn't a joke. Wisconsin had a plan to have a freeway between the Illinois state line near Richmond, IL and Madison. It would have been part of a freeway running off I-90 at Schaumburg, IL, which would have provided an excellent short route between northwest surburban Chicago and points in the southeast Wisconsin and beyond. The route 53 freeway ends 6 miles north of the origin point because the state of Illinois bowed to political pressure from Lake County, Illinois residents that did not want to loose their "rural" environment. The Wisconsin freeway segment runs from the state line to Elkhorn, WI. and serves three communities with populations of less than 10,000, plus the odd driver that wants to take the "scenic" route. The joke is on the Lake County residents, as the population there has exploded. I have no sympathy for their complaints about traffic. "We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 13, 2005 11:06 AM Don't laugh! Just a few years ago the State of Montana had a very nice two lane highway that ran up to Thompson Pass at the Idaho/Montana border. When you crossed over the border to Idaho, it basically turned into a narrow twisting logging road! They've fixed up the Idaho side of the road since then. Reply Edit jeaton Member sinceSeptember 2002 From: Rockton, IL 4,821 posts Posted by jeaton on Saturday, August 13, 2005 8:41 AM Gabriel Roth writes for the Cato Institute ("We're against everything.") that the Federal Government should end the Federal Gas Tax, get out of the business of building and maintaining highways and turn the whole thing over to the individual states. If that were to occure, it would be fun to see just how many highway improvement projects would produce a very nice road that would suddenly turn into a dirt trail as it crossed a state line. Anyway, he makes a note that the number of separate "earmarks" in the appropriations have gone through the roof. "Earmarks" are the provisions in the law that establish funding for a specific project and are derided as "pork" even if the project is of high value by any standard. Roth implies that the reason for the rise in the number of earmarks is strictly political. Congressman X tells his constituents that he has brought big bucks to the district and don't forget that at the next election. Not to say that the highway planners in the Department of Transportation are always going to be highly objective in prioritizing projects, but if there is a $75 billion backlog in work that should be done, should anyone be surprised that someone with the power to do so would order his project be handled first? Jay "We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 13, 2005 7:53 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol Well, here was the "pork" for Montana. Our Senior Senator stood on one of our local city bridges yesterday and presented the mayor with a "check" for $6 million to rebuild the bridge from two lane to four lane. It was a hopelessly outdated bridge that connected the Interstate, two Federal highways, state highways, and was important to city traffic flow as well. It was hopelessly outdated but the City didn't have the kind of money to rebuild it, and the bridge happened to be a "city" bridge, not a "federal" bridge, mainly by historical accident. The "pork" in the Highway Transportation bill in this instance went directly to a highway transportation improvement project which assisted the federal, state, and local highway systems all in one fell swoop. Not bad for "pure pork." Best regards, Michael Sol Not everything is pork and there are a lot of bridges that need to be rebuilt. But I wonder how many more could have been done for the money that will be spent on the new suspension bridge which will connect 2 islands in Alaska. I understand it's to be longer than the Golden Gate and the populations of the 2 islands are 2,000 and 50 people. Reply Edit bobwilcox Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Crozet, VA 1,049 posts Posted by bobwilcox on Saturday, August 13, 2005 3:13 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by smalling_60626 I have a feeling that if you dislike the BNSF's choices of what lines to serve, you'll really hate it if 535 pork-minded politicians in Washington spend the money on their "high priority" projects--just look at the new infrastrure act. At least pork projects start services and build things, as opposed to stopping services and tearing things out. Well, here was the "pork" for Montana. Our Senior Senator stood on one of our local city bridges yesterday and presented the mayor with a "check" for $6 million to rebuild the bridge from two lane to four lane. It was a hopelessly outdated bridge that connected the Interstate, two Federal highways, state highways, and was important to city traffic flow as well. It was hopelessly outdated but the City didn't have the kind of money to rebuild it, and the bridge happened to be a "city" bridge, not a "federal" bridge, mainly by historical accident. The "pork" in the Highway Transportation bill in this instance went directly to a highway transportation improvement project which assisted the federal, state, and local highway systems all in one fell swoop. Not bad for "pure pork." Best regards, Michael Sol Poor Montana, the victim state. Bob Reply MichaelSol Member sinceOctober 2004 3,190 posts Posted by MichaelSol on Friday, August 12, 2005 11:49 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by smalling_60626 I have a feeling that if you dislike the BNSF's choices of what lines to serve, you'll really hate it if 535 pork-minded politicians in Washington spend the money on their "high priority" projects--just look at the new infrastrure act. At least pork projects start services and build things, as opposed to stopping services and tearing things out. Well, here was the "pork" for Montana. Our Senior Senator stood on one of our local city bridges yesterday and presented the mayor with a "check" for $6 million to rebuild the bridge from two lane to four lane. It was a hopelessly outdated bridge that connected the Interstate, two Federal highways, state highways, and was important to city traffic flow as well. It was hopelessly outdated but the City didn't have the kind of money to rebuild it, and the bridge happened to be a "city" bridge, not a "federal" bridge, mainly by historical accident. The "pork" in the Highway Transportation bill in this instance went directly to a highway transportation improvement project which assisted the federal, state, and local highway systems all in one fell swoop. Not bad for "pure pork." Best regards, Michael Sol Reply Murphy Siding Member sinceMay 2005 From: S.E. South Dakota 13,569 posts Posted by Murphy Siding on Friday, August 12, 2005 9:02 PM FM: Sometimes they do both. My sister worked for a contractor at a navy base that was being dismantled. They were dismantling the south end, while another contractor was building on the north end! Four years later, they got to the north end to tear down things that were only 4 years old. Sometimes, government = duh! Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 12, 2005 7:13 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by smalling_60626 I have a feeling that if you dislike the BNSF's choices of what lines to serve, you'll really hate it if 535 pork-minded politicians in Washington spend the money on their "high priority" projects--just look at the new infrastrure act. At least pork projects start services and build things, as opposed to stopping services and tearing things out. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 11, 2005 9:53 PM I have a feeling that if you dislike the BNSF's choices of what lines to serve, you'll really hate it if 535 pork-minded politicians in Washington spend the money on their "high priority" projects--just look at the new infrastrure act. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, August 9, 2005 7:33 PM Murphy, The government already is engaged in developing portions of the transmission infrastructure. Up here in the PNW we have the BPA (Bonneville Power Administration) with transmission lines to supplement the utility lines. I think the TVA is the same way. Perhaps now we can focus on creating a BRA (Bonneville Rail Administration) to construct supplementary rail lines as an addendum to the PNW rail network, once it has converted to OA. Reply Edit Murphy Siding Member sinceMay 2005 From: S.E. South Dakota 13,569 posts Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, August 8, 2005 9:05 PM FM: 1. So, BNSF could still serve their customers? What does that mean? So now if a state took over a business just to improve rates for the customers the state deemed were being gouged,wouldn't all customers claim they're being gouged? Upon reflection, communism probably isn't the correct description,fascism is probably a more correct one. 2. I don't want to go through some govenmental gcency. I don't want to follow the established rules. I don't want to get the rates that the market sets. I just want to have a state take over a huge,profitable business and run it ( or now, apparantly just some portions of it?) in a way that benefits me!!! I'm sure there are many others who feel the same way. So,after that power company gets put in line,then we can focus on BNSF for the same reasons.[}:)][:)] Note the less than serious tone in this post, and don't take it too seriously. Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, August 8, 2005 8:07 PM Murphy: 1. Even under your "communist" takeover scenario, BNSF would still be able to serve all it's traditional customers. All that is being taken from them is the right to gouge. 2. If you don't like the quality of the electricity you've been getting lately, I would encourage you to complain to the FERC. Given that your part of the country is dependent on coal fired generation, they will probably direct your complaint to those entities responsible for delivering coal to the power plants. Go ahead, knock yourself out! Reply Edit Murphy Siding Member sinceMay 2005 From: S.E. South Dakota 13,569 posts Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, August 8, 2005 12:18 PM FM: I was thinking [:)] The electricity in my house comes from a source that has to buy power sometimes. I'm sure that some of it must come from the power company that you "consult" for. I'm just not happy with the electricity they've been sending me lately. It's just not strong enough sometimes, and ,come to think of it, it's way overpriced. In some cases, it costs nearly 100% more than electricity that costs half as much. How does one go about having the "State" buy this company (for the good of the people of course), and give it to someone else who could fix this problem?[}:)][;)] Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar. Reply bobwilcox Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Crozet, VA 1,049 posts Posted by bobwilcox on Sunday, August 7, 2005 9:42 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding FM: That would be a first-it wouldn't be a hostile nationalization of an industry, it would be a hostile state takeover of an industry? How many years could this be tied up in court? Could Montana then "sieze" the gas stations that were charging more than the citizens thought they should?How about the seed dealers? The grocery stores? And on and on......I don't even see this as being a real cure for anything. And if some of the citizens didn't think the farmers were doing a good enough job, they could always pitch them out, and collectivise the farms right? It's been done before.[B)][;)][:)] First the BNSF then on to WalMart! Bob Reply Murphy Siding Member sinceMay 2005 From: S.E. South Dakota 13,569 posts Posted by Murphy Siding on Sunday, August 7, 2005 5:34 PM Tell me it isn't so, that we'd let a small group of (party) members sieze control of a profitable,tax paying business to turn it over to a group (The State) that offers more preferential (rate) treatment to the wounded, third party? Where did this notion come from? We're not talking about eliminating a railroad to replace it with a 500 mile long shopping mall are we?[:)] Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 7, 2005 4:21 PM Communism is when they shoot the former owners of the private industry. Socialism is when they buy-out the owners. Have you guys never heard of the TVA, which took over electric generation and distribution for one-fifth the country in the 1930s and 1940s and still reigns supreme? Or Conrail, for that matter. I will concede, though, that Conrail retained enough of the appurtenences of private industry (trading shares on the NYSE, for example) that it is a poor example of "state socialism." Urban renewal is when they buy out the poor to subsidize rich corporations. In essence, it's a reverse-welfare giveaway that transfers "rents" from the poor to the rich. It also has a dubious record of rescuing poor areas. There are reasons they were poor to begin with. I don't think there is too much outcry over "eminent domain" to four-lane a highway, but many people are shocked, appalled and angry at the Supreme Court's decision, as am I. Reply Edit Murphy Siding Member sinceMay 2005 From: S.E. South Dakota 13,569 posts Posted by Murphy Siding on Sunday, August 7, 2005 4:12 PM FM: That would be a first-it wouldn't be a hostile nationalization of an industry, it would be a hostile state takeover of an industry? How many years could this be tied up in court? Could Montana then "sieze" the gas stations that were charging more than the citizens thought they should?How about the seed dealers? The grocery stores? And on and on......I don't even see this as being a real cure for anything. And if some of the citizens didn't think the farmers were doing a good enough job, they could always pitch them out, and collectivise the farms right? It's been done before.[B)][;)][:)] Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 7, 2005 3:06 PM As long as Senators send newsletter to their constituents making hay of the fact that they wrote or sponsored such-and-such legislation, but the people don't realize that without House support it couldn't possibly become law, then that kind of hypocrisy will go on. Reply Edit bobwilcox Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Crozet, VA 1,049 posts Posted by bobwilcox on Sunday, August 7, 2005 12:53 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal Owen, Gov. Brian Schweitzer, and Sen. Conrad Burns, (R-Mont.), said they will continue to pressure the railroad... Sen. Burns burned all of his bridges to Ft. Worth many years ago. Maybee he should intoduce some more transportation bills that no one is interested in supporting? Bob Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 7, 2005 11:55 AM When dealing with monopolists actions, a laize faire approach does not work. Society simply has to be proactive in response, or lose any chance of enabling a free market mechanism to ameliorate the societal costs of monopoly empowerment. It is unfortunate that the State of Montana has been forced into a situation of having to construct solutions to a problem that is having a major negative effect on their economy. And the State will grow old and die before the feds come to the rescue. After all, the feds are the ones who created and allowed this situation to fester when the Milwaukee PCE was ordered torn up. Hmmmm, the Northeast gets bailed out by the creation of Conrail, while the Northern Tier gets the shaft! When the Supreme Court ruled on the eminent domain issue, they ruled that states have the right to use this power if it had a positive effect on tax revenues. Since BNSF has pushed the State of Montana to the brink of an ag recession, the state must respond in a way that best corrects the negative affects BNSF's actions will have on the State's bottom line. Using eminent domain to take over certain of BNSF's lines, an action that will result in other Class I's such as CP and UP being able to provide connections and thus play a true free market game in competing for the priviledge of hauling Montana grain, is certainly one response that will provide a viable solution. And if you think that's "communism", please tell when in the history of Marxism has there ever been an example of a communist action intended to foster competition? The answer is of course there hasn't, because fostering competition is a violation of communists tenets. Same for socialist and fascist governments. Only under a representative government can actions be taken that serve to break up monopolist power for the benefit of the free market. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 6, 2005 10:13 PM I agree that capitalism makes more sense than communism or socialism. Still, for reasons that elude me, there are plenty of "solid citizens" and politicians out there who think that state ownership is the answer for everything. Not as many as in the Seventies, but enough! Reply Edit Murphy Siding Member sinceMay 2005 From: S.E. South Dakota 13,569 posts Posted by Murphy Siding on Saturday, August 6, 2005 8:41 PM Isn't it a little bit of a stretch of logic? Taking a piece of property to sell it to a developer who would produce more property taxes is one thing. Taking over of a profitable,up and running business by a state to "correct" percieved pricing unfairness is quite another. The first example would be eminent domain gone astray. The second example has already been tried, and doesn't work- it's called communism.[:(!] Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 6, 2005 5:09 PM No, but the threat probably seems a bit more credible ever since the Supreme Court radically expanded the concept of imminent domain several weeks ago. Reply Edit 123456 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
QUOTE: Originally posted by jeaton QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal Jay, Don't laugh! Just a few years ago the State of Montana had a very nice two lane highway that ran up to Thompson Pass at the Idaho/Montana border. When you crossed over the border to Idaho, it basically turned into a narrow twisting logging road! They've fixed up the Idaho side of the road since then. It wasn't a joke. Wisconsin had a plan to have a freeway between the Illinois state line near Richmond, IL and Madison. It would have been part of a freeway running off I-90 at Schaumburg, IL, which would have provided an excellent short route between northwest surburban Chicago and points in the southeast Wisconsin and beyond. The route 53 freeway ends 6 miles north of the origin point because the state of Illinois bowed to political pressure from Lake County, Illinois residents that did not want to loose their "rural" environment. The Wisconsin freeway segment runs from the state line to Elkhorn, WI. and serves three communities with populations of less than 10,000, plus the odd driver that wants to take the "scenic" route. The joke is on the Lake County residents, as the population there has exploded. I have no sympathy for their complaints about traffic.
QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal Jay, Don't laugh! Just a few years ago the State of Montana had a very nice two lane highway that ran up to Thompson Pass at the Idaho/Montana border. When you crossed over the border to Idaho, it basically turned into a narrow twisting logging road! They've fixed up the Idaho side of the road since then.
23 17 46 11
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol Well, here was the "pork" for Montana. Our Senior Senator stood on one of our local city bridges yesterday and presented the mayor with a "check" for $6 million to rebuild the bridge from two lane to four lane. It was a hopelessly outdated bridge that connected the Interstate, two Federal highways, state highways, and was important to city traffic flow as well. It was hopelessly outdated but the City didn't have the kind of money to rebuild it, and the bridge happened to be a "city" bridge, not a "federal" bridge, mainly by historical accident. The "pork" in the Highway Transportation bill in this instance went directly to a highway transportation improvement project which assisted the federal, state, and local highway systems all in one fell swoop. Not bad for "pure pork." Best regards, Michael Sol
QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by smalling_60626 I have a feeling that if you dislike the BNSF's choices of what lines to serve, you'll really hate it if 535 pork-minded politicians in Washington spend the money on their "high priority" projects--just look at the new infrastrure act. At least pork projects start services and build things, as opposed to stopping services and tearing things out. Well, here was the "pork" for Montana. Our Senior Senator stood on one of our local city bridges yesterday and presented the mayor with a "check" for $6 million to rebuild the bridge from two lane to four lane. It was a hopelessly outdated bridge that connected the Interstate, two Federal highways, state highways, and was important to city traffic flow as well. It was hopelessly outdated but the City didn't have the kind of money to rebuild it, and the bridge happened to be a "city" bridge, not a "federal" bridge, mainly by historical accident. The "pork" in the Highway Transportation bill in this instance went directly to a highway transportation improvement project which assisted the federal, state, and local highway systems all in one fell swoop. Not bad for "pure pork." Best regards, Michael Sol
QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by smalling_60626 I have a feeling that if you dislike the BNSF's choices of what lines to serve, you'll really hate it if 535 pork-minded politicians in Washington spend the money on their "high priority" projects--just look at the new infrastrure act. At least pork projects start services and build things, as opposed to stopping services and tearing things out.
QUOTE: Originally posted by smalling_60626 I have a feeling that if you dislike the BNSF's choices of what lines to serve, you'll really hate it if 535 pork-minded politicians in Washington spend the money on their "high priority" projects--just look at the new infrastrure act.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding FM: That would be a first-it wouldn't be a hostile nationalization of an industry, it would be a hostile state takeover of an industry? How many years could this be tied up in court? Could Montana then "sieze" the gas stations that were charging more than the citizens thought they should?How about the seed dealers? The grocery stores? And on and on......I don't even see this as being a real cure for anything. And if some of the citizens didn't think the farmers were doing a good enough job, they could always pitch them out, and collectivise the farms right? It's been done before.[B)][;)][:)]
QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal Owen, Gov. Brian Schweitzer, and Sen. Conrad Burns, (R-Mont.), said they will continue to pressure the railroad...
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.